Let's talk Transformation : The business leaders podcast #160 Mindful rebellion with Meggi Rombach
If you allow people to discover their voice, to claim their space, to set their boundaries… they will speak up
Meggi and I discuss the concept of mindful rebellion - which isn't about anarchy, but about strategic influence and finding your voice in complex environments. This discussion explores the psychological impact of organizational identity on personal well-being, the challenges of reinvention, and the power of strategic, quiet disruption within established systems.
An interesting take on mindfulness as an antidote to the potential pitfalls of AI. While AI can augment human capabilities, it risks making people “cognitively lazy” by replacing critical thinking and skill development. Learning mindfulness alongside AI skills from a young age can help individuals leverage AI’s benefits while preserving their capacity for presence and independent thought.
Mindfulness became a crucial tool in meggi's own journey to prevent burnout and in turn informed her concept of mindful rebellion, a gentle yet powerful approach to challenging the status quo for greater innovation and employee satisfaction.
The challenge of distinguishing between healthy self-reflection and destructive self-doubt, and allowing yourself to mourn during transitions, but not getting stuck in a negative space. This resonated deeply with me, as I know how easily we can fall into overthinking, especially when facing big changes or career shifts.
How to foster and accompany this change ? The “submarine technique” for creating change within organizations was one idea. Instead of pushing loudly against resistance, working “under the radar,” gathering evidence, and building momentum with champions before emerging. This strategic patience allows new ideas to strengthen and gain support, making it easier for leaders to say “yes.” and enable them to cultivate environments where challenging the status quo leads to greater engagement and retention.
This approach feels so relevant in today’s constantly changing workplaces, where reinventing ourselves and our businesses is the new normal for keeping up with technology and market shifts.
The main insights you will get from this episode are :
- Mission-driven organisations can be outwardly compassionate but internally harsh; when organisational and personal identities merge, the outcome is akin to complex family dynamics – difficult moments mean we appreciate what binds us and feel a sense of belonging, but without becoming (too) attached to the need for external validation.
- We are all constantly evolving, moving through phases of (maybe radical) reinvention, changing priorities, learning from difficult moments along the way - the younger generation do not speak from a place of lived experience or pain and this gap between the generations is widening.
- Upskilling is the new normal and requires transferrable skills across sectors: our superpowers here are hard skills like craftsmanship (analytical, strategy, etc.) and soft skills like empathy, that come from life experience, e.g. ‘unofficial’ skills from family life or hobbies that can be a USP in bringing our whole selves to a job.
- The difference between healthy self-reflection and destructive self-doubt is mindfulness – understanding the principles of non-judgement, being aware of a negative mindset, feeling and acknowledging feelings and then letting them pass; artificial positivity can be dangerous, and mastery of self is important (especially in teams).
- The ‘submarine’ technique can be used to develop positive case studies to convince people of change, i.e. running small side projects under the radar to make the bigger point and then surface with demonstrable success, displaying strategic patience to help leaders support new ideas in a tangible, specific way.
- ‘Mindful rebellion’ (based on the PCM personality model and Rebel Talent by Francesca Gino) is about finding our voice, accepting who we are and speaking up authentically; mindful rebel managers working with mindful rebel talent is a potent combination for successful intrapreneurship, even in bureaucratic setups.
- William Bridges’ three phases of change – the ending, the neutral zone and new beginnings – emphasise sufficient time in the neutral zone for introspection and challenging old scripts; in the absence of clarity, courage and confidence, the Japanese concept of ikigai is a good starting point for true alignment.
- Mindfulness can be the antidote to AI, making us aware of the risks - going through the pain ourselves will enable us to derive the biggest benefits from AI; curiosity about mindfulness and rebellion allows us to test them out in micro habit form, experimenting with an open mind and being bold with ideas.
Find out more about Meggi and her work here :