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Why Anxiety is a Habit - and How Curiosity Helps Break the Loop with Dr. Jud Brewer

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Dec 19, 2025

Guest

Jud Brewer

Dr. Jud Brewer, a leading psychiatrist and neuroscientist, dives into the intricacies of anxiety as a habit. He discusses how curiosity can disrupt the worry loop, making room for real change. Brewer highlights the distinction between feeling anxious and habitual worrying, unveils the challenges of AI in therapy, and stresses the importance of human connection. Through the lens of habit formation, he offers insights on how paying attention to our thoughts can reduce anxiety and foster self-compassion, empowering listeners on their journey to mental wellness.

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Episode notes

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ANECDOTE

Setbacks As Learning Steps

Jud Brewer frames setbacks as learning opportunities and growth mindset moments.
He asks whether a step backward can be learning, arguing that learning from mistakes is progress.

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ANECDOTE

Marbles Make Progress Visible

A patient tracked sobriety by adding marbles to a jar and saw cumulative success.
Counting successes shifted perception from failure to clear progress.

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ADVICE

Distinguish Anxiety From Worrying

Differentiate the feeling of anxiety from the mental behavior of worrying.
Ask "what am I getting from this?" to reveal whether worrying is actually rewarding.

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Introducing Jud Brewer and Topics

03:05 • 37sec

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Two Wolves Parable and Habits

03:42 • 3min

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Why Jud Studies AI Therapy

06:18 • 2min

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Risks of Out-of-the-Box AI Therapists

07:49 • 4min

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Human Connection vs AI in Therapy

11:32 • 3min

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Hybrid Models: Human Content with Bot Assistants

14:56 • 4min

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Fine-Tuning and Guardrails for Bots

Why Your Brain Thinks You're Failing

24:50 • 6min

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Feeling Anxiety vs Worrying Habit

31:15 • 3min

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Habit Loop: Trigger, Behavior, Reward

34:30 • 3min

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Limits of Substitution Strategies

37:21 • 2min

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Unwinding Habits via Prediction Error

Curiosity as an Alternative Reward

42:01 • 3min

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Distress Tolerance and Building Curiosity

45:30 • 6min

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Program Results and Timeframe

51:18 • 2min

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Why Insight Alone Often Isn't Enough

53:44 • 2min

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Why Knowing Isn't Sufficient to Stop Habits

55:54 • 3min

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How Quickly Reward Value Updates

59:02 • 2min

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Shame, Regret, and Self-Compassion

01:00:58 • 7min

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Noting Practice and Observer Effect

01:07:59 • 3min

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Practical Noting and Narration Exercises

The Unwinding Anxiety Workbook

Practical Exercises to Break the Cycles of Worry and Fear and Heal Your Mind

Judson Brewer, MD, PhD

The Unwinding Anxiety Workbook is a practical resource designed to help readers break addictive habits and heal their anxious minds through scientifically proven exercises and thought-provoking journal prompts. Based on Dr. Judson Brewer's New York Times bestseller, this workbook guides readers through a three-step program that teaches how to uproot anxiety at its source using brain-based techniques and mindfulness practices accessible to anyone.

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How a Little Becomes a Lot

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Psycho-Cybernetics

Maxwell Maltz

Published in 1960, 'Psycho-Cybernetics' is a classic in the self-help genre. Maxwell Maltz, a plastic surgeon, developed this book based on his observations of patients whose inner attitudes and feelings remained unchanged despite successful surgery. He introduced the concept of 'self-image' and its profound impact on achieving personal goals. The book combines cognitive behavioral techniques with cybernetic principles to help individuals regulate their self-concept and achieve positive outcomes. Maltz's methods, including visualization, mental rehearsal, and relaxation, have been widely adopted by motivational gurus, sports psychologists, and self-help practitioners. The book emphasizes the importance of a positive self-image and the use of mental imagery to achieve success and happiness.

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The Power of Habit

Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business

Charles Duhigg

In this book, Charles Duhigg explores the science of habit formation and change. He explains the 'habit loop' consisting of a cue, a routine, and a reward, and how understanding this loop can help in changing bad habits or forming good ones. The book includes numerous examples from various fields, such as how Procter & Gamble successfully marketed Febreze, how Alcoa transformed its business by focusing on safety, and how individuals like Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps and civil-rights hero Martin Luther King, Jr. benefited from specific habits. Duhigg argues that by harnessing this science, individuals and organizations can transform their lives and businesses.

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Unwinding Anxiety

New Science Shows How to Break the Cycles of Worry and Fear to Heal Your Mind

Judson Brewer, MD, PhD

In this book, Dr. Judson Brewer explains how to uproot anxiety at its source using brain-based techniques and small hacks accessible to anyone. The book is divided into four parts, covering how the brain works, mapping behavior to recognize triggers, understanding the brain’s reward system, and the importance of curiosity and mindfulness in changing habits. It distills over 20 years of research and hands-on work with patients, including Olympic athletes and corporate leaders, to provide a clear, solution-oriented program for reducing anxiety and breaking unhealthy habit loops.

In this episode, Dr. Jud Brewer explains why anxiety is a habit and how curiosity breaks that habit loop. He explores the difference between the feeling of anxiety and the mental habit of worry, and why curiosity and self-compassion are essential for real change. Drawing from his clinical work and research on digital therapeutics and AI-supported therapy, Dr. Brewer shows how learning from setbacks—and building distress tolerance—helps us recognize progress, unwind shame, and create lasting transformation.

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Exciting News!!!Coming in March 2026, my new book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How a Little Becomes a Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life is now available for pre-orders!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Key Takeaways

Exploration of mental health and the role of habits in anxiety management.
Discussion of the parable of the two wolves and its relation to neuroscience and habit reinforcement.
Examination of the science of habit formation and the limitations of traditional habit replacement strategies.
Insights into digital therapeutics and the development of app-based mental health treatments.
Analysis of the potential and challenges of AI in therapy, including ethical considerations.
The importance of human connection in therapy and the unique value of human therapists.
The role of curiosity in managing anxiety and the distinction between anxiety as a feeling and worrying as a behavior.
The impact of self-criticism and shame on behavior change and the importance of self-compassion.
Techniques for cultivating distress tolerance and the gradual process of emotional growth.
Mindfulness practices, such as noting, to enhance awareness and reduce reactivity in challenging situations.

For full show notes,⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠click here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!⁠

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If you enjoyed this conversation with Dr. Jud Brewer, check out these other episodes:

How to Manage Your Hunger Habit with Dr. Jud Brewer

Habits for Healing Anxiety with Dr. Jud Brewer

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