781 Laurie Frankel's Enormous Wings | My Last Book with Rhodri Lewis

Mar 5, 2026

A novelist discusses a 77-year-old protagonist forced to revisit earlier life stages after a shocking pregnancy. They probe moving into retirement, shifting caregiving roles, and cultural discomfort with elderly sexuality. A Shakespearean frame and literary influences like King Lear and Mantel shape the conversation. A scholar also explains why Middlemarch might be the last book he would ever read.

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INSIGHT

Shakespeare's Seven Ages Frame Life's Collisions

Shakespeare's seven ages compress life into recognizable stages that can collide later in life.
Jacke connects the sixth and seventh ages to Laurie Frankel's novel where old and young selves mash together, setting the episode's theme.

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ANECDOTE

Pepper Mills Moves Into A Retirement Community

Laurie Frankel describes Pepper Mills as a 77-year-old Brooklyn-born woman now living in Austin and being moved into a retirement community.
Frankel notes Pepper feels between insider and outsider, facing the peculiar mix of newness and finality when relocating into communal senior living.

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INSIGHT

Retirement Moves Echo Youthful Transitions

Moving into a retirement community mirrors earlier life transitions: same 'new kid' anxieties but with finality.
Frankel emphasizes the paradox of feeling college-dorm excitement while recognizing it's likely the last major move.

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Shakespeare's Seven Ages and the episode frame

01:40 • 11min

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Introducing Laurie Frankel and Enormous Wings

Moving into a retirement community

14:49 • 2min

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Roger, family dynamics, and practical choices

16:31 • 3min

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Role reversals and parenting across generations

19:11 • 4min

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Ages remembered and relived

22:47 • 3min

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The novel's central conceit revealed

How the pregnancy is explained

28:44 • 2min

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Risks, choices, and abortion politics

30:43 • 3min

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Pregnancy as bodily and political terrain

33:50 • 3min

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Writing beyond 'write what you know'

37:18 • 3min

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Literary influences: Mantel, Lear, and The Tempest

40:30 • 4min

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Endurance, impossibility, and Mantel epigraph

44:45 • 5min

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Age, sex, visibility, and being heard

49:17 • 4min

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Predecessors and rereads for perspective

53:00 • 8min

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Telling the impossible plainly

01:00:44 • 28sec

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Rhodri Lewis: last book choice

01:01:12 • 3min

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Why Middlemarch endures

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Enormous Wings

Laurie Frankel

#1261

• Mentioned in 34 episodes

Wolf Hall

Hilary Mantel

Set during the English Reformation, 'Wolf Hall' brings to life the opulent and brutal world of the Tudors. The novel focuses on Thomas Cromwell, who rises from humble origins to become a powerful advisor to King Henry VIII. It explores themes of ambition, power, politics, religion, identity, and loyalty and betrayal, all set against the backdrop of Henry VIII's desire to marry Anne Boleyn and break from the Roman Catholic Church. Mantel's vivid imagery and sensory details create a rich sense of time and place, making historical characters relatable to contemporary readers.

#702

• Mentioned in 51 episodes

King Lear

William Shakespeare

King Lear, written by William Shakespeare around 1604-1606, is a tragedy that follows the story of King Lear, who decides to retire and divide his kingdom among his three daughters: Goneril, Regan, and Cordelia. The division is based on the eloquence of their declarations of love for him. However, Lear's youngest and favorite daughter, Cordelia, refuses to flatter him and is disinherited. The play unfolds with Lear's descent into madness, the betrayal by his elder daughters, and the subplot involving the Earl of Gloucester and his sons. Ultimately, the play ends in tragedy with the deaths of Lear, Cordelia, and several other main characters, highlighting themes of deception, power, and the consequences of poor judgment.

#14055

• Mentioned in 4 episodes

The Mirror and the Light

Hilary Mantel

In 'The Mirror & the Light', Hilary Mantel concludes her acclaimed Thomas Cromwell trilogy, which began with 'Wolf Hall' and 'Bring Up the Bodies'. The novel follows Cromwell from the aftermath of Anne Boleyn’s execution to his own downfall. It delves deep into Cromwell’s psyche, reflecting on his past and the complexities of his role as chief minister to Henry VIII. The book is characterized by its rich historical detail, vivid settings, and masterful characterization, making the past feel immediate and visceral. Despite knowing the historical outcome, Mantel crafts a suspenseful narrative that explores the tensions and power dynamics of the Tudor court, culminating in Cromwell’s tragic fall from favor

#351

• Mentioned in 84 episodes

Middlemarch

George Eliot

Middlemarch, written by George Eliot, is a novel that delves into the complexities of provincial life in 19th-century England. The story revolves around the intersecting lives of its characters, particularly Dorothea Brooke and Dr. Tertius Lydgate, as they navigate marriage, vocation, and social class. Eliot critiques the conventional romance narratives of her time by portraying marriage as a complex and often problematic institution. The novel also explores themes of idealism, self-interest, hypocrisy, and the constraints on women's lives. Set in the fictional town of Middlemarch between 1829 and 1832, the novel incorporates historical events such as the Great Reform Act of 1832 and early developments in medicine. Eliot's realistic portrayal of ordinary human life, with its quiet tragedies and small triumphs, has made 'Middlemarch' a masterpiece of English literature.

#1799

• Mentioned in 25 episodes

The tempest

William Shakespeare

The Tempest, written around 1610-1611, is one of Shakespeare's last solo works. The play revolves around Prospero, the former Duke of Milan, who was usurped by his brother Antonio and left to die at sea with his infant daughter Miranda. They survive and find refuge on a remote island, where Prospero masters magic and enslaves the native Caliban and the spirit Ariel. When a ship carrying his enemies passes by, Prospero conjures a tempest to bring them ashore. The play explores themes of magic, betrayal, revenge, and forgiveness as Prospero manipulates the shipwrecked characters to rectify past wrongs and ultimately forgives them. The story also includes the romance between Ferdinand, the King of Naples' son, and Miranda, and ends with Prospero's decision to return to Milan and reclaim his dukedom.

#138

• Mentioned in 149 episodes

A Christmas carol

Jacqueline Goldfinger

Jacqueline Goldfinger's adaptation of 'A Christmas Carol' is a family-friendly version that includes music, making it suitable for a wide range of audiences. This play retains the core themes and characters of the original while adding a musical element to enhance the storytelling and emotional impact.

"And one man in his time plays many parts," wrote Shakespeare in As You Like It, "[h]is acts being seven ages." We all know the feeling of passing from one phase to the next. But what happens when something dramatic mashes these acts together? In this episode, Jacke talks to New York Times bestselling author (and HOL superguest) Laurie Frankel about her novel Enormous Wings, in which a woman who should be enjoying her golden years is suddenly forced to contemplate a return to an earlier stage of life. PLUS Shakespeare scholar Rhodri Lewis (Shakespeare's Tragic Art) stops by to discuss his choice for the last book he will ever read. Will he turn to Shakespeare during his final act, or opt for something else?

The music in this episode is by Gabriel Ruiz-Bernal. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gabrielruizbernal.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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