Talking About Organizations Podcast 128: Meaningfulness of Work -- Andrew Carton (Part 1)
Aug 12, 2025
Andrew Carton, Associate Professor of Management at Wharton who studied NASA archives, explores how leaders shaped meaningfulness of work. He traces Kennedy’s evolving rhetoric, archival research methods, and a five-stage “ladder” that made abstract goals tangible. The conversation covers secrecy, visualization, and how leaders create structures that let people connect daily tasks to grand missions.
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Janitor Story That Sparked The Study
- Andrew Carton recounts the famous janitor story where a custodian told Kennedy he was putting a man on the moon rather than just mopping floors.
- Carton uses this anecdote as the initial inspiration to study how leaders shape meaningfulness across an organization.
Meaningfulness Feels Distant From Grand Aspirations
- Meaningfulness is a core psychological need where people want their work connected to something bigger and transcendent.
- Carton observed a paradox: the loftiest organizational aspirations are often the exact things that feel disconnected from narrow daily tasks.
Big Goals Can Increase Perceived Disconnect
- Kennedy set a grand, concrete stretch goal (moon by decade's end) but that alone didn’t bridge workers' everyday tasks to the aspiration.
- A big goal can create a contrast effect that highlights the disconnect between grand vision and menial daily work.