Soul in the game versus skin in the game

I join Matt Zeigler for one more special episode of Excess Returns. Available now on Excess Returns Podcast and Talking Billions. 🎧

I’m excited to share this episode with you—it’s reposted here with permission and blessing from both Matt and Jack. Don’t miss it! And follow their work, links below.

[Vitaliy was on TB before, scroll down to find the episode, it's very different, but equally worthwhile. Enjoy!]

In this episode of Excess Returns, Matt Zeigler and Bogumil Baranowski speak with Vitaliy Katsenelson, CEO of Investment Management Associates and author of Soul in the Game. The conversation explores how value investing is evolving in a world shaped by artificial intelligence, rapidly changing economic dynamics, and historically high market valuations. Vitaliy discusses why humility and diversification are increasingly important for investors today, how to balance quality and valuation when selecting stocks, and what he has learned about selling decisions, portfolio construction, and long-term investing discipline. The discussion also moves beyond markets into deeper ideas about passion, creativity, and why investing, like art, is ultimately a creative pursuit driven by curiosity and lifelong learning.
Topics covered in this episode

• The math behind long-term stock market returns and the role of earnings growth versus valuation changes

• Whether the dominance of mega-cap technology companies represents a structural shift in markets

• Why AI investment could lead to both massive innovation and large amounts of wasted capital

• The importance of humility in investing during periods of rapid technological and economic change

• Why Vitaliy increased the number of stocks in his portfolio due to greater uncertainty

• How investors can think about what will not change in a rapidly evolving world

• The evolution from statistical value investing to focusing on business quality and management

• Why cheap stocks are often expensive and how narrative bias can trap value investors

• The importance of evaluating management integrity and avoiding companies with questionable leadership

• How Vitaliy thinks about selling decisions and recognizing when an investment thesis is broken

• Why many investors make their biggest mistakes by selling winners too early

• The concept of being a value buyer but a growth holder when fundamentals improve

• Lessons learned from great investors and the importance of surrounding yourself with thoughtful peers

• The idea of building a personal operating system for investing and life

• Passion, patience, and process as the three pillars of long-term investment success

• Why investing is fundamentally a creative pursuit similar to art and music

• The deeper motivations behind investing and why for many great investors it is not ultimately about money

  
  

  Podcast Program – Disclosure Statement

  Blue Infinitas Capital, LLC is a registered investment adviser and the opinions expressed by the Firm’s employees and podcast guests on this show are their own and do not reflect the opinions of Blue Infinitas Capital, LLC. All statements and opinions expressed are based upon information considered reliable although it should not be relied upon as such. Any statements or opinions are subject to change without notice.

  Information presented is for educational purposes only and does not intend to make an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of any specific securities, investments, or investment strategies. Investments involve risk and unless otherwise stated, are not guaranteed.

  Information expressed does not take into account your specific situation or objectives, and is not intended as recommendations appropriate for any individual. Listeners are encouraged to seek advice from a qualified tax, legal, or investment adviser to determine whether any information presented may be suitable for their specific situation. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.