Substances Numb Pain but Also Joy

A lot of men were taught that resilience means pushing through.
Staying quiet. Handling it alone. Running on empty and calling it strength.

In this episode, hosts Mike Cameron and Trevor Botkin slow that story down and take it apart, not as experts looking down, but as men who’ve lived the cost of getting it wrong.

Joined by returning guest Dr. David Kuhl, physician, professor, and longtime voice in men’s health, the conversation explores what resilience actually looks like when life brings grief, shame, burnout, or emotional numbness. Drawing from decades of experience in palliative care and trauma-informed work, Dr. Kuhl reframes resilience as a dynamic, relational process shaped by our bodies, our relationships, and the environments we live and work in.

Mike shares how unspoken shame followed him years after exiting a business and quietly showed up in his relationship. Trevor reflects on how confusing endurance for resilience led him to self-neglect, substance use, and running himself into the ground. Together, they talk openly about numbness, emotional literacy, and the moment many men reach when “toughing it out” stops working.

You’ll hear practical, grounded insights on:

• Why numbness is a signal, not the absence of feeling
• How shame fuels isolation and erodes trust
• The difference between “I made a mistake” and “I am a mistake”
• Why knowing just one person has your back increases resilience
• How vulnerability, when practiced honestly, strengthens connection
  
  

This isn’t about fixing yourself.
It’s about paying attention sooner, staying connected, and redefining strength in a way that actually sustains you.

If you’ve been pushing through, feeling disconnected, or quietly carrying more than you let on, this conversation offers language, perspective, and permission to pause and look again.

Support This Podcast and Canadian Men's Health Foundation

https://menshealthfoundation.ca/donate/

Follow Canadian Men’s Health Foundation

• Website - https://menshealthfoundation.ca/
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/menshealthfdn/
• Facebook - https://facebook.com/menshealthfoundation

Follow Mike Cameron

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mikecameron.ca/
• Youtube - https://youtube.com/mikecameronspeaks 
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• X - Mike Cameron (@axiommike) / X 
• LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/mikecameron
  Website - https://mikecameron.ca/
  TedX Talk - https://www.ted.com/talks/mike_cameron_redefining_badass_the_way_we_think_about_strong_is_wrong

Follow Trevor Botkin

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-botkin-869ab5143/

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Resilience

00:27 Guest Introduction: Dr. David Kool

02:01 Defining Resilience

03:42 Building Resilience Before Adversity

04:58 The Importance of Support Systems

06:17 Understanding Shame and Guilt

08:50 Personal Reflections on Resilience

15:25 Recognizing and Addressing Numbness

20:49 Understanding Emotional Numbness

21:22 The Impact of Societal Expectations

22:01 Personal Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

22:42 The Importance of Emotional Literacy

25:32 The Role of Vulnerability in Relationships

29:14 Holding Space for Others

35:02 The Systemic Nature of Resilience

37:19 Final Thoughts on Connection and Vulnerability

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