Which Division Is the Cash King

Alex Cooper breaks down the business side nobody sees: how she and her husband Matt built Unwell up from a scrappy startup, how podcasting revenue really works, and what rules she learned the hard way negotiating $60M and $125M deals.

Alex Cooper is the creator and host of Call Her Daddy and the co-founder of Unwell, a modern media company spanning podcasts, TV/film, live events, consumer products, and a fast-growing creative agency. 

Chapters

00:00 - Alex on going “full circle” and revealing the CEO side 

02:00 - Building Unwell from Host to Founder 

02:45 - A day in the life 

05:20 - How Unwell makes money 

07:15 - The video ad revolution 

08:10 - Live events, merch, and consumer products as revenue engines 

09:05 - Launching the Unwell creative agency 

10:50 - Which division is the “cash king” (and what’s catching up fast) 

13:30 - Inside mega-deals: Spotify vs Amazon 

16:15 - Why distribution mattered 

18:30 - Agents, fees, and who should get paid first (her “wait—no” moment) 

21:10 - The hard rule: keep incentives clean (and avoid cozy backchannels) 

23:00 - The biggest mistakes: trust, documentation, and walking away from millions 

26:20 - Hiring top operators and building a high-standard culture 

31:40 - PE, acquisitions, and what it takes to go to the next level 

34:25 - Incentives for execs 

35:05 - How Alex and Matt split decision-making 

39:25 - Handling narratives about ambition, success, and being misunderstood 

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Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

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