Dominionism, Funding, and Leadership

What does the raucous laughter of Nicki Minaj and Billy Graham have to do with 14th century saint?

Find out in PART TWO of our MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" Author of Revelations of Divine Love, coiner of the phrase "All Shall Be Well," and delighter in God's delight, St. Julian is such a powerful visionary and leader we needed two episodes to do her justice.

We're joined again by the The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School.

In part two, we explore "Christ as our true mother," the nature of the devil, and we see how Julian has echoes for us to consider in today's religious landscape. We also get a little teaser for Dr. Hall's new book, out in May 2026, called ERECTING THE PULPIT: MUSCULAR CHRISTIANITY FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT TO DONALD TRUMP.

Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/

Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/

The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY

Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works:

FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/

Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil

https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/

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More about Father Lizzie:

BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/

RevLizzie.com

https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/

https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie

Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org 

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More about Mother Laura:

https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/

https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches

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Theme music:

"On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue).

New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST!