Positions versus interests in conflicts

Forty Colombian farmers sat looking at her, completely unimpressed, when the cartel boss in the back of the room opened a case and a drone flew up out of it.

In this episode, I sit down with Attia Qureshi, the negotiation teacher who learned her craft running State Department conflict-resolution work in cartel-controlled coca regions of Colombia, and who now teaches at the University of Michigan after a stint at MIT Sloan. Her new book Never Settle, with a foreword by Sheila Heen and endorsements from Daniel Pink, Robert Cialdini, and Chris Voss, hits shelves next week. The thing I love about her work is that she does not treat negotiation as a boardroom sport. She treats it as a daily relationship skill, the kind you practice with your barista so it is already in your hands when something hard comes up at home.

In This Episode

• The four-step sequence Attia used to reset a room of 40 unimpressed farmers and a cartel boss with a drone, and how the same four steps work in your kitchen tonight
• Why "take out the trash" is the position and not the actual ask, and the one-sentence reframe that changes how you fight about household chores
• The fifth-grade bullying story that produced the hard shell most of us are still wearing into adulthood
• The seven-word test that tells you whether you are influencing someone or manipulating them
• Why the freeze you feel when you try to speak up is physiology, not personality, and what to do about it in real time
• How to know when you are giving too much to a taker, and the experiment Attia recommends before you decide to cut losses
• The literal glass of lemonade that turned a hostile next-door neighbor into a friendly one, and the Cialdini-backed science underneath it

Why This Matters

This episode is for anyone who knows what they want and goes quiet when it is time to ask. For anyone stuck in a loop with a difficult coworker or in-law that has been the same loop for three years. For anyone who has tried the assertive thing once and the people-pleasing thing once and is exhausted by both, and who wants a path that does not require a personality transplant.

Episode Breakdown

0:30 How to Get What You Want: Without Fighting or Folding

2:52 Bethany and the Exoskeleton: Where the People-Pleaser-or-Hardener Split Begins

7:18 Why You Freeze When You Try to Ask for What You Want

14:19 A Drone, a Drug Cartel, and How to Negotiate Without Being Aggressive

28:39 Self-Negotiation: Emotional Regulation Before the Conversation Starts

33:22 Positions vs Interests: What You Are Really Asking For

36:01 The Lemonade Story: Reciprocity, Reset, and the Long Game

46:21 Givers, Takers, Matchers, and the Difference Between Influence and Manipulation

Resources

• Free Communication Training (workbook plus two-part video)

• Schedule a free consultation with our team

• Relationship coaching at Growing Self

If something in this conversation landed somewhere specific for you, the most generous thing you can do is share it with the friend who came to mind while you were listening. And if you are ready to stop having this same conversation in your head and start having a different one out loud, my free Communication Training is at growingself.com/communication. It is the workbook and video series I built for exactly the kind of conversation Attia and I were just having.

xoxo,

Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

Growing Self

Special thanks to this month’s sponsors of the podcast

Upwork — When you need specialized talent fast, Upwork gives you access to vetted professionals across 125+ categories, from marketing to web development to operations support. No long recruiting cycles. No guesswork. Just the right person, when you need them. Check it out at upwork.com — posting a job is free.

Shopify — The all-in-one platform for building and growing your online business. Visit shopify.com/lhs to explore their tools and access exclusive listener discounts.

OSEA — Amazing, clean, science-backed skincare made with the power of the sea. Use code LHS at oseamalibu.com for 10% off your first order.

Quince — Quality products you’ll actually use that feel like luxury without the price tag. Get free shipping and 365-day returns at quince.com/lhs.

LNutra Prolon — A science-backed, plant-based nutrition program that supports fat loss, metabolism, cellular rejuvenation, and overall longevity. Head to ProlonLife.com/LHS for 15% off your first order + a bonus gift.