Middle managers as the make-or-break layer

Jen emphasizes managers' daily impact, the lack of leadership training, and the need to skill managers to lead humans.

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Work is making people sick, and quick fixes are not enough. In this episode, I’m joined by Jen Fisher, former Chief Wellbeing Officer at Deloitte, to talk about why wellbeing isn’t a perk but a business imperative. We break down why burnout is often rooted in systemic issues and hopelessness, how middle managers shape our daily mental health, and why hope and an understanding of the human nervous system may be the most underrated leadership skills of all. Tune in to rethink what wellbeing means and what it takes to lead with hope right now.

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In this Episode, You Will Learn

00:00 Why wellbeing is more than mental health benefits.

06:00 How burnout led Jen to pioneer the Chief Wellbeing Officer role.

13:00 What does “wellbeing at work” mean?

19:30 The ROI of fixing workplace culture.

23:00 Why does AI make us so anxious?

26:00 Why wellbeing must be part of organizational strategy.

30:00 How constant disruption dysregulates employees.

33:15 What is the definition of a successful leader?

37:15 What workplace data misses about human outcomes.

40:30 The #1 thing employees want from leaders.

46:00 Why middle management is the make-or-break layer.