

Some Work, All Play
David Roche and Megan Roche
Five to ten topics, sometimes about running, with lots of love and enthusiasm and science. We dig deep into training, races, studies, pop culture, and much more! With Megan Roche, M.D. and David Roche!
Episodes
Mentioned books

20 snips
Jun 6, 2023 • 1h 26min
157. How We Think About Energy Intake, Science on Coaching, and DREAMING BIG!
This episode was the most fun ever, perfect timing for the 3-YEAR PODCAST ANNIVERSARY! The main training topic was on what it means to dream big, and why it matters for physiology as much as it does for the brain. Our exploration of the dream-big topic navigated through our own journeys (including our plans with the podcast), the science of coaching, and how small nudges can fundamentally change our long-term trajectories. We also geeked out on some fascinating scientific takeaways from the ACSM Conference, including calorie counting (and why we are against it), psychological factors of performance and coaching, and fueling and Boston Marathon results. Our car was stolen at the conference, but it was worth it for the sexy science. One Subaru in exchange for 30 minutes of podcast material and a few jokes? DEAL.
And our fun really boiled over on the rest of the episode! Other topics: lessons from 3 years of the podcast, a Molly Shannon book excerpt that will blow your mind, why we are so inspired by the people who took our car, a listener question about calibrating energy intake, how people pleasing may affect injury rates, a study on the placebo effect in mentorship, timing your iron intake (and how iron may interact with mental health), a review of recent menstrual cycle studies, and HOT TAKES. These takes are too hot for TV.
We hope you enjoy this celebration as much as we did, and half as much as one of our listeners enjoys their cat (it'll make sense after Hot Takes).
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Precision Nutrition 15% discount: https://visit.pfandh.com/SWAP
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

10 snips
May 30, 2023 • 1h 21min
156. Strength Work Tips, New Golden Ticket Races, and Brain Circuits and Habits!
We filled our wine glasses with protein powder for our favorite day of the week: PODCAST TUESDAY! The main training topic was on how athletes can think about strength work. It's an area where our coaching approach has evolved over time based on how we have seen the research interact with real-world performance! Should you use lighter weight or heavier weight? One set or multiple sets? Should you be grunting like you're passing a kidney stone the size of a pineapple? We break down the magic exercises, highlighting studies that show rapid adaptations for health and performance. Strength work can even be fun! Yeah, we said it. FUN. Like if the DMV hosted a dance party!
Maybe the strength work is giving us better endurance, because we talked about so many fun things on this episode! Other topics: realizations about work, why having a bike can be helpful for all athletes, a massive ultrarunning project from Lululemon, cool science on brain function in habit formation, our favorite fuel and hydration company (BAGs for life), our thoughts on the new Golden Ticket races that were just announced, and HOT TAKES. Our listeners have some spicy thoughts! It's going to take 12 wine-glass protein shakes to wash out this spice.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Precision Nutrition 15% discount: https://visit.pfandh.com/SWAP
Ultra Legs strength: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LV905EEKAM
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

9 snips
May 23, 2023 • 1h 30min
155. Hormones and Athletics, Ultra Legs Strength, and Improving Technical Running!
We woke up before sunrise like it was Christmas morning for our favorite day of the week: PODCAST TUESDAY! The main training topic was on simple tips to improve technical running, and how the principles of thinking about form on difficult terrain can also improve health and performance on roads. After this episode, you'll believe in the ultimate power of THE CHOP. We also talked about a wonderful new study (led by Dr. Megan) with a whopping 10-year time horizon, looking at improving health outcomes in collegiate athletes. The conclusions have profound implications for how we think about athletics, performance, and culture!
And that was just the start of the fun! Other topics: hormones and athletics through the lens of a listener question about how training impacts their sex drive, the science of collagen, the perils of professional running (that may apply to whatever your profession is too), the debut of the long-awaited Ultra Legs strength routine, and MORE HOT TAKES. You'll hear about someone out there with a truly bonkers approach to preventing blisters. We can't wait for you to find out and share our horrified admiration.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

23 snips
May 16, 2023 • 1h 18min
154. Spicy Hot Takes, Long-Term Training Studies, and Protein Powders!
It's getting hot in here, so we took off most of our clothes for PODCAST TUESDAY! The main training topic was on a new review study looking at all of the research on long-term training approaches. What works? What doesn't? On a scale of 0 to infinity, how much ice cream should you be eating? We have 3 takeaways for all levels of athletes about training volume, deemphasizing VO2 max, and cross training. Ice cream is implied! We use that study as a jumping-off point to discuss how our training methodology has changed over time, focusing on how we have evolved on workout structure, speed, hill strides v. flat strides, and aerobic blocks.
And that was just an appetizer for our favorite new segment: HOT TAKES. Listeners sent in 12 of their hottest takes about running and life, which we reacted to. You'll laugh. You'll learn something. You'll be mortified at how wrong some people are (including us). Be ready for wisdom and whimsy!
Other topics: shoes we recommend, a discussion about protein intake, protein powder reviews, race photos, and body image as an athlete. This one was so much fun!
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

6 snips
May 9, 2023 • 1h 18min
153. Grayson Murphy Interview! World Champion Talks Happiness and Athletics!
We are so excited for this episode where we got to party with one of our favorite people: Grayson Murphy. She was fresh off a double national championship, winning the U.S. Uphill Champs on one day, followed by the U.S. Mountain Champs the next day, both in dominant fashion. In a few short years, she has established herself as one of the best trail runners in world history. How did she do it? Grayson describes a journey that was as much emotional as physical, learning to find happiness in the long-term process. Her incredible story features going to college to play soccer before finding out she was quite good at this running thing, becoming a professional and learning that she needed to follow a different path, and then courageously blazing her own trail in the sport. Her race wins are cool, but what's so inspiring about Grayson is her independent spirit, and how she has discovered that she gets to decide what it means to be successful in athletics.
And that was just the start! Grayson talks about everything from overcoming competition anxiety to dealing with injuries to her fueling secret (dino nuggets sponsorship please). We hope this episode leaves you with inspiration to take the trail that's most meaningful to you. Especially if that trail is a bit overgrown and scary!
Buy the Training Log and Planner here, with 50% off for a limited time: https://www.racin-grayson.com/pages/2023-training-log-planner
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

15 snips
May 2, 2023 • 1h 28min
152. Canyons 100k Lessons, 5 Rules for Fueling During Runs, and Lower Volume Training!
We did a happy dance for the most wonderful day of the week: Podcast Tuesday! The main discussion was on fun takeaways from racing the Canyons 100k. David stepped up into the unknown and was 5th place! But what made the day really special was hitting a low point when it seemed impossible, and finding out that there was more to give. Our suggestion is to try something really big and really scary, whether it's in athletics or something else. Shoot those shots! The race discussion led to tons of fascinating topics: the science of "deception" in hot conditions, drug testing, the role of ego, the power of subconscious expectations, inspiration from people pushing their limits, and so much more! We also discuss the wildly uncertain area of electrolyte consumption, and how population-wide recommendations may not apply to individual athletes. This race was the most fun experience OF ALL TIME, and we can't wait to do more of these. Hopefully this discussion will inspire you to try something that seems unthinkable!
And that was just the start! Other topics: the US Mountain Championships and the legend of Grayson Murphy, 5 rules for fueling runs based on duration and intensity, a shocking revelation about our favorite grocery store, last week's news of a positive drug test from an elite triathlete, and a question from a listener on how to optimize fitness at lower training volumes.
Our only concern is that the happy dances on this episode may lead to cheek cramping (faces and butts). Keep the salt pills close by.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

26 snips
Apr 25, 2023 • 1h 25min
151. Blood Volume Science, Emotions and Performance, and Double Doctor Celebration!
We put our party hats on for the ultimate celebration: Podcast Tuesday! The main training topic was on lactate shuttles in the body, and the connection between lactate and fatigue at all intensity levels. It's so fascinating how this molecule connects what we all feel during training, from a professional athlete to someone who is going on their first hike! But the main discussion was on Megan's PhD defense and her research in female athlete health and performance. The study findings = IMPORTANT. The double doctor swag = ACTIVATED. We discuss takeaways from tackling big scary goals! The main one to remember is that wearing black prevents the pit stains from being too obvious.
And you better believe we were just ramping up! Other topics: rapid protocols for heat adaptation and how that may impact performance in all conditions, a new study that connects blood volume to short-term fitness changes, emotional state and performance, our thoughts on a big scandal in ultra running, adaptation to downhill running, dopamine and perceived exertion, the interaction of running and cross training, and a follow-up on training the stomach for people with really bad stomachs. Your farts are not your destiny!
We had such a great time with this one. May your races be cool and your fitness be hot!
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

Apr 18, 2023 • 1h 23min
150. How To Improve Fueling, Boston Marathon Hot Takes, and Longevity and Running Science!
We turned our happiness meters to 100 for our favorite day: Podcast Tuesday! The main training topic was on the science of gut training. The stomach needs to be trained in a methodical way just like the aerobic system, but people rarely talk about how much this part of training theory plays a role in endurance. We discuss the mechanisms, studies, and considerations, ending with 4 tips to improve your performance and health. Your gut is beautifully unique and important! No matter what the pre-race porta potty says! We also did instant reactions to the Boston Marathon, including hot takes on Kipchoge's surprising fade, the wins from Chebet and Obiri, and our theories for why the race played out like it did. Plus some training takeaways from the incredible performance from Emma Bates! She uploads all of her data to Strava, which is automatic HERO STATUS.
And that was just the start! Other topics: tapering for the Canyons 100k, reflections on the past and future, a story about friends and dudes, a discussion about the awesomeness of hiking, a breakdown of the science of running and longevity, and questions from listeners on dealing with fatigue and downtime.
This one was so much fun! May your takes be hot and your guts be harmonious.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

13 snips
Apr 11, 2023 • 1h 21min
149. The Art and Science of Strides, High Carbohydrate Intake Principles, and Hormonal Tracking!
The most exciting time of our week is here: podcast Tuesday! The main training topic was on the trend of increasing carbohydrate intake during activity, sometimes to extreme levels around 120 grams per hour (480 calories!). We review some of the science of how glycogen levels relate to fatigue processes, along with GI considerations and our own personal experiences. Is it the next frontier of fueling, or a passing fad that will cause more DNFs than breakthroughs? The jury is out, but the carbs are in. We also talked about the principles of strides: what they are, how they work, and why they can lead to astronomical progress. There is a speed beast within all of us! And that speed beast may be farting a lot from all those carbs.
Plus, we did something extra special with this episode and answered lots of listener questions! Our podcast audience is so smart, so kind, so awesome. Topics: pre-race nerves, the Lake Sonoma 50 Miler, the physiology of celebrating yourself, the Paris Roubaix bike race, on-course nutrition, cross training doubles, how to approach injuries during training, and considerations for hormonal tracking. There were tons of deep dives into the coolest concepts! And as usual, there were some extra shallow dives as well.
Remember: Overnight success stories are years in the making. Let's make those years full of celebration! And sweet dance moves! But you gotta keep the glycogen high in the hips to avoid booty cramps.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap

Apr 4, 2023 • 1h 24min
148. Zone 2 Training Explained, The Importance of Iron, and Overcoming Fatigue!
The most fun time of our week is here: podcast Tuesday! The main training topic was on Zone 2, focusing on what it is and how to find it for yourself. If you're anything like us, understanding the metabolic and aerobic physiology will explain so much about training theory, and you'll get way faster in the process. Zone 2 is like Hansel, it's so hot right now. We also talked about some nuances of iron intake, and how appropriate supplementation can CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Did we give a multivitamin containing iron to our baby Leo as a case study? Yes! Is he is ready to take on the baby Tour de France? You betcha! Get the padded baby shorts ready.
And you better believe that was just the beginning! Other topics: 3 TV show recommendations, how to encourage adaptation through fatigue, what comes after overload training, a bunch of thoughts on the Gorge trail races, why philosopher Eckhart Tolle is our favorite running coach, some thoughts on artificial intelligence (it makes a great DJ!), the importance of celebrating yourself, and so much more. The episode finishes with a beautiful listener email, so make sure you stick around for that inspiration!
As Coach Eckhart says: "On a deeper level you are already complete, and when you realize that, there is a playful, joyous energy behind what you do." Do you think he likes hill strides and pizza? We bet he does! Does he coach babies for bike races? He does now! YOU ALL COMPLETE US.
For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! WOOHOO!
Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap
Try Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/swap


