The Hoffman Podcast

“I feel like we are our own greatest science experiment.” – Jake Daigle As Hoffman’s Facility and Land Manager, Jake Daigle weaves his love and care for the land with his love and care for the Hoffman Process. He found an intimacy with the land and wildlife at the IONS site in Petaluma when he and his wife, Christine, were caretakers there for many years. Now, as we transition to Santa Sabina, Jake looks back on his time at the Hoffman Retreat Site in Petaluma, working for Hoffman and supporting the students who have transformed there over the years. There is something beautiful and yet understated in how Jake weaves these two together – the Process and the land. At the core, these are his deep values. When you look at who he is and how he embodies his love, you grasp that he truly is Farmer Jake, as he is known in his Instagram profile.  Rooted in the growth of life all around him, he tends and cultivates, holds and supports. Jake and Christine Jake took the Process at White Sulphur Springs, where his Process’s pivotal moments revolved around the land. The creek running through, the sulphur springs, and the redwood grove all supported his deep work. After his Process, Liza Ingrasci asked Jake and Christine to create a labyrinth there. So many of us came to know intimately. Jake now brings his care for and knowledge of White Sulpher Springs and our Petaluma site, his knowledge of both flora and fauna, and the sacred places they hold, to his tending of the Santa Sabina site. Referring to North America as Turtle Island, Jake shares that each place Hoffman calls home is a distinct part of the turtle’s back. All are connected.   Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Jake Daigle: Jake Daigle is a farmer and consultant focused on organic agriculture, ecological stewardship, and the long-term vitality of working landscapes. After Hurricane Katrina flooded his home in New Orleans, he moved to the Bay Area, finding refuge in nature and discovered that a holistic approach to health and wellness began with the awareness of our interconnection with all beings. After graduating from the Hoffman Process, Jake put in years of hands-on experience in diversified organic farming. Jake has contributed to education and skill-building at the Indian Valley Organic Farm and Garden, where he supported both new and experienced growers through mentorship and practical training. He was also part of the founding of Live Oak Farm, helping shape a model that integrates agriculture, community, and place-based stewardship. This work reflects Jake’s view of farms as spaces not only for production, but for art, education, connection, and resilience. Young Jake Currently working with the Hoffman Institute at Santa Sabina, Jake is also developing Headwaters Farm at SOMO Village. The project is designed as a living example of regenerative organic agriculture, combining food production with education, community engagement, and local food systems. In partnership with Credo High School, he is also planning a culinary arts program set to launch in 2027. The program will connect students to the full cycle of food—from growing and harvesting to cooking and sales—offering hands-on learning that ties together agriculture, nutrition, and ecology. Through consulting, teaching, and fieldwork, Jake helps farmers and land stewards think strategically about soil health, crop planning, and whole-farm systems. His work emphasizes practical, economically viable approaches to building resilient agricultural operations. Across all his roles, Jake brings a collaborative, observant, and grounded approach, guided by a commitment to organic practices, continual learning, and the relationship between healthy land, food, and communities. Social Media: Follow Jake on Instagram. As mentioned in this episode: Christine Falcon-Daigle: Christine is the Assistant Retreat Site Manager for the Hoffman Institute. Jake and Christine with Aia-Jo. Aia-Jo recently passed away. Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) Frank Ferrante: •   Book: May I Be Frank? •   Documentary: May I Be Frank? Edgar Mitchell, Astronaut, Hoffman Graduate: •   The Overview Effect •   “Earthrise: Earthrise is a photograph of Earth taken from lunar orbit by astronaut William Anders on December 24, 1968, during the Apollo 8 mission…” read more… Olompali State Historic Park John Muir: “The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.” – John Muir White Sulphur Springs, St Helena •   Hoffman Retreat Site at White Sulphur Springs Guardian rock: A large rock that stands on the land in Petaluma, which was the home of the Hoffman Process. Guardian Rock, photo by Drew Horning “As above, so below.” Shamanism (Shamanic work) Riparian zone Mount Burdell Preserve Mount Tamalpais “The turtle’s back…” refers to Turtle Island. Flora mentioned: Madrone Manzanita Valley Oak Live Oak Buckeye Bay tree Manzanita

“You know, there’s that old saying, anywhere you go, there you are. The Hoffman Process brings that magic with it wherever it goes.” – Perry Dorsey Jr. Today’s guest is Perry Dorsey Jr., Hoffman Institute’s retreat site manager and a beautiful human being. As we transition from Petaluma Retreat Center to our new Santa Sabina Retreat Center, we invited Perry to share his wisdom with you. He tells the story of how the land nurtured him during his Process. The land continued to do so as he stepped into his important role at Hoffman. Perry’s relationship with the land at our site in Petaluma has been foundational to his care for the site, his fellow Petaluma staff, and the students who come to do the Hoffman Process. Perry completed his own Process at White Sulphur Springs, our old retreat site. He supported the opening of our new site, Santa Sabina. Perry is managing both Petaluma and Santa Sabina during our crossover period in April and May, with programs in both places. Perry holds a reverent long view of Hoffman from the perspective of the land. Over time, he has witnessed how it interplays with students there to do the deep work of the Process. In hearing his experiences witnessing the students interact with nature, we begin to get a sense of this important interrelation with the land. As Perry says, the land feels “the vibrations and the energy of all the hard work and love that is held there. You know, there’s that old saying, anywhere you go, there you are. The Hoffman process brings that magic with it wherever it goes.” The land at White Sulphur Springs and the Petaluma Retreat Center will remember all who opened their hearts there, as new students open theirs at Santa Sabina. A special addition to Perry’s episode: The land blessing ceremony, led by (Clockwise from top-left) Jessica Harjo, Matt Brannagan, CEO, Karen Waconda-Lewis, and Jessica’s daughter. In the last portion, Sadie and Perry welcome Jessica Harjo to the conversation. Jessica shares a bit about the land blessing we held onsite for Santa Sabina the morning before the first students arrived for their Process there. Jessica was integral to our land blessing for Santa Sabina. After the circle of Indigenous leaders, including Jessica, Karen Waconda-Lewis, and Jessica’s daughter, led the blessing ceremony, various attendees read the Thanksgiving Address. Jessica reads a portion of this address in this episode. Jessica’s multicultural ancestry (Indigenous/San Carlos Apache, Indigenous/Chicana/Mexican, Filipina, Japanese, and European) has been a source of strength in her life. It is reflected in her work in recognizing and uplifting multicultural and Indigenous knowledge.  We hope you enjoy this loving conversation with Perry, Sadie, and Jessica.  Listen on Apple Podcasts More about Perry Dorsey Jr.: As the Retreat Site Manager for the Hoffman Institute, Perry currently oversees operations at our Petaluma site and the new Santa Sabina site. His history with the institute began at White Sulphur Springs. There, he supported the daily operations before leaving to pursue his graduate degree. After four years away, Perry returned to the Hoffman Institute to manage the Petaluma site. He brought a perspective deeply influenced by the profound changes he experienced during his own Process at White Sulphur Springs in 2017. Perry’s professional approach is shaped by a Master’s in Diverse Community Development Leadership from Cal State University, Northridge, and his time living on the Big Island of Hawaii. Those experiences were foundational in shaping his passion for food security. Perry has supported the development of food hubs and helped create sustainable operational practices for small, localized businesses. They also deepened Perry’s understanding of how essential community is, not just for individual growth, but for our collective resilience. He now carries that into his work. He helps create spaces where students can open up, feel supported, and fully step into the work in a way that’s meaningful and impactful. Follow Perry on Instagram and Facebook. More about Jessica Harjo: Jessica Harjo is a soul-embodied human being and lifelong learner. She’s a proud homemaker and mother of three daughters, three stepchildren, and four grandchildren. For the past eighteen years, Jessica has worked in the nonprofit sector as the Director of Operations for the Tribal Law and Policy Institute. A nonprofit leader, Jessica specializes in policy development, administrative infrastructure, team development, project management, HR implementation, and business and financial operations management. She holds a Bachelor of Science in Film, Media, and Social Justice and a minor in Business Administration. Jessica also holds an MBA from Mount Saint Mary’s University. Mount Saint Mary’s is the only women’s university in Los Angeles.  It is known for its annual report on the Status of Women and Girls in California. Jessica has volunteered on numerous nonprofit boards that serve Indigenous communities. She’s an active volunteer for the Hoffman Inner Work for Indigenous Leaders Advisory Circle and the Indigenous outreach team. She provides support for other Indigenous Process fellows and graduates. A student of Yoga philosophy, Nichiren Buddhism, and Indigenous Mindfulness, Jessica is currently working on her RYT500 Yoga Teacher Training. She regularly uses her Hoffman tools to continue healing, visualizing, and growing. This has been the journey of her lifetime. The Process brought her to herself, and the BIPOC Q2 brought her home. Jessica and her husband, Tim Harjo, live in Oklahoma. They balance their careers, family life, and running Sovereign Ranch, a first-generation, Native-owned bison ranch. Listen to Jessica on The Hoffman Podcast: My Ancestry Is My Soil, My Foundation As mentioned in this episode: California Hoffman Retreat Centers: •  Santa Sabina Retreat Center, San Rafael •  Petaluma Retreat Center, Petaluma •  White Sulphur Springs Retreat Center, St Helena The Thanksgiving Address, read by Jessica Harjo.      

How can I just be in the sensing of my life and the experiences that I have, rather than having to wrestle and fight those?” – Cindy Murray We are thrilled to have beloved Hoffman teacher and coach, Cindy Murray, as our guest today. Cindy responds to Drew’s question – Why the Process? – sharing a few reasons. Cindy had been very successful in her career as a psychotherapist and educator. After suffering a traumatic brain injury, Cindy was shaken. She’d relied heavily on her intellect in her career for success. How would she move forward now with this brain injury? Cindy also found herself “in a conundrum within.” She’d grown up in a loving home with all her needs met. Her parents didn’t discuss feelings, but they were a beautiful, loving couple. Their marriage was Cindy’s role model for relationships, one that lasted more than 50 years. Then, Cindy fell deeply in love with a woman after being married to a man for about 10 years. Suddenly, she realized she had been living the model her parents taught her, but deep within, she understood this wasn’t who she truly is.  During her time at the Process, Cindy reclaimed her true self. Post-Process, Cindy integrated what she learned and began to trust this new relationship with her Spiritual Self. Now, through her work as a Hoffman Process teacher, she holds space for her students to do the same. Listen in to hear Cindy’s journey to learn how to stop wrestling and fighting so she could come to meet her life as it unfolds. Content Warning: This episode references child sexual abuse and may not be suitable for all audiences. Please use your discretion. Watch and listen to Cindy & Drew: https://youtu.be/-tG6xa3SMos Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Cindy Murray: Cindy, doing what she loves Hoffman Process teacher, Cindy Murray, earned a Master of Clinical Social Work from Western Michigan University and is a graduate of the clinical training program in Analytical Psychotherapy from the CG Jung Institute of Chicago. Cindy’s own Process was pivotal in her personal growth, leading her on the path of connection and presence. As a Hoffman Process teacher, she believes in helping students to further their own deep connection with themselves and to hold presence within themselves and in the world for those they love. Cindy also teaches in the Social Work Department at Western Michigan University and volunteers for the LoveYourBrain Foundation, which empowers people with brain injury and caregivers to feel more resilient, connected, and able to lead fulfilling lives. Originally from Kalamazoo, Michigan, Cindy currently lives in Cochrane, Alberta, Canada, near the Hoffman Canadian retreat site. She enjoys hiking and skiing in the mountains and swimming in the glacial lakes as often as she can. As mentioned in this episode: Love Your Brain Foundation  

“The relationship I have with my girls now is just remarkable. It’s remarkable. I’m so blessed.” – Steve Cieciuch Husband, father, avid skier, and fly-fisher, Steve Cieciuch is living, in his words, a remarkable life. Steve begins his story recounting the 2004 horrific avalanche in British Columbia that he survived, but which took the life of his skiing partner and friend. Steve has lost five friends. Concurrently, Steve and his wife were trying to start a family. Over the years, they experienced five miscarriages. Eventually, they gave birth to two beautiful daughters. In 2019, fifteen years after the avalanche and years of grief and depression, Steve came to the Hoffman Process. His children were under ten. Steve shares how clearly he saw how he was passing down these patterns of depression, worry, and stress to his daughters. Upon his return home from the Process, his daughters greeted him and told him that he’d “lost his stress face.” One of the deeper threads that runs through this conversation is that of spirit, the afterlife, and other planes of existence. Steve recounts an experience of the ‘other side’ during the avalanche. And he shares his profound experience during the Process when he went outside after an intense experience. “I’m just seeing things like I’ve never seen them before. … I was seeing, the color in the trees, and I go on this hike, and I mean, it was just like mind-blowing, how visual and how in tune and how present I was. It was one of the greatest moments I’ve ever had.”  Steve is now writing a memoir. He says he hopes “his daughters will see that their dad’s vulnerable, that he’s being authentic, that he’s had a lot of difficulty in his life, but he’s got back up, and he’s been resilient. He’s marched forward in the face of a lot of loss and still has a lot of joy. He’s trying to put his right foot forward all the time and lead a good life.”   We hope you enjoy this remarkable conversation with Steve and Drew. Content Warning: Please be aware that this episode includes details of traumatic events, reproductive grief, and substance abuse, and might not be suitable for all audiences. Please use your discretion. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Steve Cieciuch: Steve Cieciuch, doing what he loves Steve Cieciuch moved to Aspen in 1979 at age 18, drawn by a love of skiing, freedom, and the Rocky Mountain lifestyle. After deciding to make the mountains his permanent home, he began his real estate career in Telluride in 1987. Over the past four decades, Steve has built a distinguished career in the San Juan Mountains, helping clients discover exceptional properties while developing and selling custom homes and ranches, building seven homes of his own—ranging from a historic renovation to a striking modern residence perched off a mountainside. Steve Cieciuch, doing what he loves In 2019, Steve attended the Hoffman Process. This pivotal experience helped him process the anguish from the loss of five close friends, recognize lifelong patterns, and reshape how he relates to his family, work, and himself. A husband and father of two daughters, Steve lives in Telluride with his wife, Kendall. He is an avalanche survivor, lifelong skier, fly fisherman, and pastel artist currently writing a memoir—a metaphorical journey through the eyes of a fly fisherman exploring deep friendship, tragic loss, and transformational renewal with the help of the Hoffman Process. Steve has served as managing broker of Telluride Properties, consistently ranking among the region’s top producers. He contributes to his community through nonprofit leadership, including serving as Chairman of Mountainfilm. Today, Steve views life as an ongoing process of growth, awareness, and deeper connection. To find out more about Steve and Telluride Properties, follow him on Instagram and YouTube. As mentioned in this episode: The final mandala Steve created during his Hoffman Process Free Ride, Big Mountain British Columbia avalanche, 2004 • Revelstoke, BC, Canada Kevin Eyres, Hoffman teacher and coach •   Listen to Kevin on the Hoffman Podcast: Beyond the Intellect Jud Wiebe Trail, Telluride, CO Karma Fly fishing Hoffman Process tools and practices Morning Quad Checks and Evening Appreciation and Gratitude: Join us on Instagram for a daily Quadrinity Check at 8:00 a.m. PT and an Appreciation & Gratitude practice at 6:00 p.m. PT.  

“I wanted to live my very best life. I wanted to know who I really am.” – Jan Docherty Do you ever wonder who you really are? Today’s guest, Jan Docherty, did. She wanted to know who she really is and what she could accomplish living as her true self. Jan came to the Hoffman Process to find the answers to these questions. She left knowing herself and loving herself, too. Jan joined Sadie for this forthright conversation about self-knowledge, passion, and healing. Jan is passionate about life. Adopted early on, life was unconventional in many ways. Now, as she looks ahead to her later years (she’s just become a senior citizen), Jan is fully focused on her business, Merridale Cidery and Distillery. For her, business is personal. It’s where she gets to bring her true self and full-on passion she discovered at the Hoffman Process. It’s where she gets to support and build community in meaningful ways. With hard-earned wisdom, Jan shares what she’s learned about facing the painful moments in life. In a candid moment, she touches on one of the most painful moments in her Process. A mother of three, Jan speaks of the estrangement she’s experiencing with one of her children and how she’s navigating that since graduating from the Process. During her Process, Jan realized that, by living out her patterns, she harmed others, including her children, due to Negative Love. She learned that it is critically important to hold herself with both honesty and grace. She learned to be honest with herself and take responsibility for the harm, but also not to derail from her own healing. Jan knows that she did the best she could with what she had at the time. It is in this that she finds the grace to move forward. Content Warning: Be aware that this conversation contains mentions of sexual abuse and child sexual abuse. Please use your discretion. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Jan Docherty: Jan Docherty at Merridale with Oliver Jan Docherty is a Vancouver-born entrepreneur. Unconventional beginnings and a deep commitment to growth, resilience, and community have shaped her life. Adopted into a small, compassionate family, she was raised with strong values while navigating early life challenges that would later inform her perspective and strength. Jan’s childhood followed an unconventional path when she successfully auditioned for a CBC television series. She spent several years singing and dancing. As a result, much of her learning took place beyond the traditional classroom. Despite this unconventional path, Jan went on to earn a business degree from UBC. This grounded her in practical skills and a strong understanding of financial stewardship – lessons first instilled by her adoptive father. In her 30s, she connected with her birth parents, expanding her sense of identity with roots in both Toronto and Mexico. Jan’s professional journey spans multiple chapters, from building residential homes alongside her partner to leading a thriving for-profit social enterprise in the food, beverage, and tourism industry for over 25 years. Today, she is the driving force behind Merridale Cidery and Distillery. Merridale is a values-based business set in an apple orchard, where a cidery, distillery, and eatery come together to create space for people to slow down and connect. Jan’s work is guided by a belief in integrity, both in the products she creates and the culture she fosters for her team, guests, and broader community. A mother of three and grandmother of two, Jan considers family, connection, and purpose to be her greatest achievements. Now at 65, she embraces this stage of life as her most meaningful yet: an ongoing adventure rooted in authenticity, contribution, and joy. As mentioned in this episode: Vertical Integration (Vertically Integrated Business) Hoffman Quadrinity Check-In •   Listen to the Daily 8 am PT Quad-Check on Instagram

“I’ve just started to tap into that, trusting a little bit faster over time. Because I see that when I make these decisions that feel aligned with what I want, and I believe is right for me, that on the other side, I haven’t regretted one of those decisions.” Allison Kahler Allison Kahler attended the Hoffman Process in 2024 after experiencing multiple big life changes. The Process helped her integrate these changes. One year later, Allison returned for the graduate Q2 in search of the catalyst that would move her forward into her new life. Before coming to the Process, Allison, who grew up in an “idyllic, loving, Catholic family,” felt tremendous guilt. Having had a ‘perfect childhood,’ she wondered if, instead of doing self-reflection work, she should just be grateful. But she found that even in a ‘perfect’ childhood, we still adopt patterns. Allison had adopted messages of perfection and proving worth through achievement. She had internalized the external pressure she felt as a child, with work being her number one focus in life. During her Process, Allison began to set the stage for her new life, realizing she is allowed to have dreams and desires. She started asking and listening to the quiet voice within. She started to develop a deeper trust in this voice. And she began to look for the spark that would launch her into her new life. A year post-Process, Allison came to Hoffman’s graduate retreat, the Q2. There, she found the catalyst she was looking for through an experience of self-compassion. Finding self-forgiveness lit the catalytic spark. By listening to the quiet voice within and developing her trust muscle through sustained action, Allison is now living into her new life. We hope you enjoy this uplifting conversation with Allison and Sadie. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Allison Kahler: Allison, host of The D. Tales Allison Kahler is an executive coach and the host of The D. Tales with Allison Kahler. A recovering perfectionist and lifelong insecure overachiever, Allison spent nearly two decades in management consulting before realizing that much of her drive was fueled by fear, self-doubt, and deeply ingrained patterns formed early in life. After going through a divorce at 33, an experience that left her carrying years of guilt and shame, she made a series of life-altering changes: leaving a nearly 20-year consulting career, moving cross-country from Chicago to Santa Monica, and questioning not just her marriage and career, but who she was and who she wanted to become. Young Allison Allison’s experience at The Process marked a profound turning point. Through a deep commitment to the daily tools and practices, she began to shed limiting beliefs, transform long-held patterns, and learn to meet herself with greater self-compassion. Today, Allison supports leaders and individuals navigating transition, working with organizations as an executive coach and advisor. She works with individuals through The D. Tales, her podcast. There, she shares real divorce stories and grounded conversations with experts about identity, healing, and rewriting the next chapter of their lives. At the heart of her work is a belief shaped by lived experience: that even our most painful life transitions can become powerful invitations to reconnect with who we truly are and move forward with greater clarity, courage, and self-trust. Discover more at AllisonKahler.com. Follow Allison on Instagram. Follow The D. Tales on Instagram and TikTok. As mentioned in this episode: The D. Tales with Allison Kahler — available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and all major podcast platforms. The Hoffman Q2 Intensive Dates and Registration Kevin Eyres, Hoffman teacher – Listen to Kevin on the Hoffman Podcast: Beyond the Intellect Self-compassion: “Instead of mercilessly judging and criticizing yourself for various inadequacies or shortcomings, self-compassion means you are kind and understanding when confronted with your failings – after all, who ever said you were supposed to be perfect?” – KristenNeff, expert on self-compassion Listen to Kristin Neff on the Hoffman Podcast: Goodwill & Intention, the Magic Ingredients Hoffman Tools: •   Be-Do-Have vs. Do-Have-Be: The life we long for comes from Be-Do-Have; the life we are taught we should strive for comes from Do-Have-Be. •   Quad Check: Join our virtual Quad-Check at 8:00 am PT on Instagram. The Quad Check is a practice to guide you to check in with all four parts of your Quadrinity: Spiritual Self, Intellect, Emotional Self, and Body.    

“It’s huge to find out that who you are is really not who you’re afraid you are, and not all the patterns you’ve been acting out.” – Andy Milberg Andy Milberg Beloved Hoffman teacher, Andy Milberg, has been teaching the Process since August 1991. Bob Hoffman, founder of the Hoffman Process, trained Andy to become a teacher. One thing Andy is known for is his articulate, nuanced ability to explain the foundational theory of the Process – Negative Love. Drew and Andy dive deep into the Negative Love Syndrome and how it plays out in our lives. Showing how nuanced this syndrome is, he shares that he is still discovering more subtle ways this plays out in his life, even these many years later. Bob Hoffman Andy shares a fair amount of Hoffman history. He explains that Bob Hoffman was concerned with the pain human beings seem to experience and sought a way to be free of it. Bob asked two very important questions. The first was, “Why do seemingly rational adults continue to act out, automatically, compulsively, in self-defeating ways?” The second question was, Why is it so hard to change that behavior? Bob Hoffman discovered this fundamental theory by asking this second question. When Andy did the Process in his early forties, his attitude toward himself was that this was how he’d always been. But at the Process he was quite happy to discover that how he was is not how he always has to be. He found, post-Process, that there was much more available to him after he broke free of the power his patterns had on him. There was space for new possibilities in his life. Andy explains that this is the kind of change Hoffman means in our tagline When you’re serious about change. You don’t become somebody different. Rather, you reclaim your potential and all you can be. We hope you take away a deeper understanding of the poignancy of human nature and the possibility of reconnecting with your essential nature. You’ll want to bookmark this one so you can return to it. More about Andy Milberg: Andy did the Hoffman Process in July of 1990. He was immediately inspired to become a teacher, completing his training in August of 1991. “Although I had done a lot of personal growth work before”, he says, “the Process went deeper in so many ways, showing me my blind spots and then teaching me how to move beyond them into my authenticity. It was an amazing gift I wanted to share with others, and still do, 35 years later.” Andy spends most of the year in Ajijic, Mexico, with his wife and dog. He commutes to teach, while also coaching. In his spare time, he likes to play music and table tennis. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify As mentioned in this episode: Bob Hoffman, Founder of the Hoffman Process Listen to Andy’s previous episode on The Hoffman Podcast: Reflections on Teaching the Process. The Negative Love Syndrome and The Path to Personal Freedom and Love: •    Read the essay, The Path to Personal Freedom and Love. •   Listen to The Path to Personal Freedom and Love. John Bradshaw, Healing the Shame That Binds Us Brenè Brown The Negative Love Syndrome Map: The Negative Love Syndrome and the Negative Love Syndrome map are integral to the Hoffman Process.** At 24:49, Andy shares: “There’s an inner circle, which is who we really are.” (This is the little heart in the center, within a circle.) “Then there’s another circle, which is who we’re afraid we are, which, in Process terms, is that shame statement.” (This is the next circle out. It’s gray and labeled shame.) “And because of that, there’s a bigger circle, which is who we want the world to think we are, so they don’t know that we’re the shameful person that we think we are.” (This bigger circle is comprised of the four yellow/gold rings. This is the false self they refer to.) The good news is that we are neither our shame statement nor our patterns. We are Essence, our Spiritual Self. 22:22 Talking about the arrows: The fourth section in blue is the area Andy and Drew talk about when Drew asks about the arrows, and Andy responds by speaking about addictions. **The Hoffman Process®, including the Negative Love Syndrome®, is protected worldwide as intellectual property, encompassing trademarks, copyrights, and trade secrets. The Hoffman Institute International owns the rights to all materials, concepts, and methodologies, and it is strictly prohibited to reuse or sell these materials, concepts, and methodologies.

“I have all these learned behaviors, and … was seeing them play out in my own family, with my own children, and thinking about the generational transference of hurt and wounds and wanting to do what I could to minimize that.” – Carrie Levine Certified nurse-midwife and functional medicine practitioner Carrie Levine has had a lifelong interest in deep exploration. She completed the Hoffman Process in 2024, having learned about patterns years earlier from reading Bob Hoffman’s book, No One Is to Blame. She truly understood Bob Hoffman’s realization that “No one is to blame.” Self-described as weird when young, Carrie explored a variety of unusual passions as a teen, including challenging activities in nature. In early adulthood, Carrie led women through outdoor experiential educational adventures, guiding them to become skilled and empowered in a variety of settings. Later, as she embarked on a new career in medicine, Carrie drew parallels between supporting women in nature and supporting them in the labor room. She found the skills and presence she’d gained earlier also empowered women during childbirth. Sharing her journey, Carrie highlights how she came to learn about herself. She is clear that she must be aligned with her Spiritual Self and reflects on how she doesn’t do well when she isn’t aligned. She now counsels her patients that optimal health can only come when we are aligned with our core self. Carrie refers many women to the Hoffman Process. She sees that women, especially parents, need to step away from their everyday lives to do deep healing work. Her experience now helps others realize the importance of aligning mind, body, and spirit for optimal wellness. Content Warning: This episode mentions the death of a child and suicide. Please use your discretion. If you or someone you know is suicidal, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-TALK, or 800-273-8255. Or message the Crisis Text Line at 741 741. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Carrie Levine: Carrie E. Levine, CNM, FMCP-M, is the founder of the Whole Woman Health Clinic and author of Whole Woman Health: A Guide to Creating Wellness for Any Age and Stage. A certified nurse midwife and Institute for Functional Medicine certified practitioner, she evaluates and treats most common women’s health concerns by integrating gynecology and functional medicine. For more than two decades, Carrie has worked to help women find wholeness, connecting physical symptoms and test results with lifestyle choices and daily practices. Previously, Carrie practiced gynecology and functional medicine at the renowned Women to Women clinic in Maine (2006–2014), and earlier provided full-scope midwifery at Miles Memorial Hospital (now Maine Health Lincoln) in Damariscotta, Maine. She’s known for deeply listening, “connecting the dots” among seemingly unrelated symptoms and emotions, and breaking personal health goals into attainable steps so clients can thrive emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Carrie earned a BS from Syracuse University, an RN and MSN from Case Western Reserve University, and a Nurse-Midwifery certificate from what is now the Frontier Nursing University.  She is a member of ACNM (national and Maine chapters), the Maine Nurse Practitioners Association, and the Institute for Functional Medicine. Learn more about Carrie and sign up for her free weekly newsletters featuring recipes, podcasts, articles, and more. Follow Carre on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. As mentioned in this episode: The Medical Panel episode on The Hoffman Podcast: •   Healing, Hoffman, and Finding Safety Within The Relaxation Response by Herbert Benson •   Transcendental Meditation Biking in Nova Scotia – cycling tours Johari’s Window Macrobiotics Women to Women Healthcare Center Taos Pueblo, New Mexico Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, by John Gray Ruth Lockhart, Founder of  Mabel Wadsworth Women’s Health Center, Bangor, Maine Health in Our Hands •   Christiane Northrup, ObGyn, Founder of Women to Women •   Deb Soule, Herbalist, Founder of Avena Botanical Doula Training The Community Nurse Midwifery Education Program, Frontier Nursing University, Kentucky Midwifery MaineHealth, Lincoln, Maine Sympathetic Nervous System Perfect Madness: Motherhood in the Age of Anxiety, by Judith Warner Marcelle Pick No One Is to Blame, by Bob Hoffman Hoffman Tools: Hand on Heart Recycling Patterns      

“Oddly enough, it’s the vulnerability that connects us. It’s not the perfect; yeah, that’s like Teflon.” – Mike Depatie Mike Depatie Mike Depatie, Founding Partner of KHP Capital Partners, attended the Hoffman Process in 2005. At the Process, Mike looked around the room and felt like he didn’t belong. He wasn’t even sure it was right for him because he felt he had a kind of Leave-it-to-Beaver childhood. Mike stayed through that discomfort and came to understand that even though he felt he had nothing in common with those he was with, he had come to love them. He realized that everyone is lovable if you really get to know them, including himself. Mike came to the Process through his role as President and CEO of Kimpton Hotels. Kimpton leadership encouraged employees to connect with themselves, so they would ultimately connect at a deeper and more effective level with their teammates and customers. To that end, employees were given the chance to do the Hoffman Process. Mike agreed to come. After attending, he says the Process helps people discover the best version of themselves. The business advice he offers is to “figure out who the hell you are, and then fully step into that.” Mike is the informal leader of Qfish, an annual fishing trip whose members are all Hoffman Process grads, including Raz Ingrasci, a long-time participant. They called themselves Qfish, like the Hoffman Q2 retreat. For the past 20 years, they’ve fished together and processed things like they’d learned to do at their Process. Both Raz and Drew Horning have attended these Qfish gatherings. We hope you enjoy this engaging conversation with Mike and Drew. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Mike Depatie: Qfish Mike Depatie is a seasoned hospitality and investment leader best known for serving as President and CEO of Kimpton Hotels, which he led for over a decade before its sale to IHG in 2015. Under his leadership, Kimpton became the world’s largest boutique hotel company with over 60 hotels and a celebrated workplace and brand. Kimpton was named one of Fortune Magazine’s 100 Best Places to Work multiple times. Mike is now a Founding Partner of KHP Capital Partners, an active investor in hospitality real estate. With a Harvard MBA, he has held senior roles across hospitality, real estate, and technology. He’s served on multiple boards. Mike lives in Napa with his wife, Holly, and their 16-year-old yellow lab, Cabo. As mentioned in this episode: Qfish, including Drew, Mike, Raz, and other Hoffman graduates. Raz Ingrasci: Raz, along with his wife Liza Ingrasci, founded the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Raz passed away on December 31, 2025. •   Listen to Raz on The Hoffman Podcast •   Watch Raz on The Oprah Podcast David Bork Founder of the Aspen Family Business Institute, David was a pioneer in the field of counseling family-owned businesses for over 25 years. Integrating Family Systems Theory with sound business practice, he had in-depth, long-term involvement with some 350 families in business. He was the author of Family Business, Risky Business. David passed away in 2025. Fly-fishing Hoffman Q2, graduate intensive Zen (as an adjective) The Enneagram Leave it to Beaver Joseph Campbell •   The Hero’s Journey Davos ‘takeaways’ on YouTube The All In Podcast Peter Diamandas •   The X Prize •   The Moon Shot Awards Watch Raz on The Oprah Podcast Zig Ziglar •   See You at the Top, by Zig Ziglar  

“Welcome your enemy, welcome the darkness. Let everybody come and sit with you at the table. Welcome with open arms, with love, with light. …That is when everything dissolves, and you are free.” – Tamsyn Strydom Before discovering the Hoffman Process, Tamsyn Strydom shares that her life had “quietly begun to shut down.” She felt overwhelmed, facing unexplained health challenges and struggling to get out of bed after relocating to a new country. Coming to the Process with a Hoffman scholarship and a quiet, desperate urgency to heal, Tamsyn felt hope. She knew that doing the Process would mark a profound turning point in her life. At the Process, Tamsyn gave it her all. She met all parts of herself, the light and the dark. She faced everything with a willingness to change. Tamsyn left feeling incredible. Yet it only took a week back home for her to fall back into the darker patterns that had brought her to Hoffman in the first place. Once home, Tamsyn had shared with others how good she felt. Now, she felt shame that the patterns had returned. Rather than saying anything to anyone, she began to isolate. This is when she found a profound willingness within. With nowhere to run to, nowhere else to go, she had to surrender again as she’d done at the Process. Now, she had to do it on her own. It was time to sit with the darkness, time to come to know and love herself deeply. Listen in to hear how Tamsyn made her way through this challenge and into her new life. She credits the Hoffman Process as a pivotal catalyst that helped her reclaim her capacity, deepen her self-trust, and step fully into this next chapter of her life. Content Warning: This episode references disordered eating. Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify More about Tamsyn Strydom: Tamsyn is the founder of Radiant Growth and Khanyisa Institute, and the co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Lo Sono Integrative Health. All three are dedicated to functional medicine, well-being, longevity science, and leadership evolution. Through her work in clinical and integrative health environments, she has supported thousands of patients. She brings a rare blend of medical insight and performance-driven leadership. Drawing on her background in integrative health and experience within clinical environments, her work bridges the realities of business demands, health, and human performance. She partners with physicians and clinical teams, serving as the bridge between patients and providers to integrate the often-missing “healing from within” dimension alongside medical care. Tamsyn – Cape Town, South Africa A keynote speaker and leadership performance expert, Tamsyn Strydom helps high-performing founders and leaders elevate business results, performance, and health. Most leaders try to think their way through burnout, culture issues, and performance gaps. But real change starts on the inside. Tamsyn works with those who appear successful on the outside but feel disconnected, reactive, or stretched thin behind the scenes. She equips them to rebuild self-trust, emotional resilience, and clarity so they can lead more effectively and create real impact without burning out. Personally trained and certified within Dr. Joe Dispenza’s authorized practitioner network, this is one of several dimensions that inform her approach. Originally from South Africa, Tamsyn is building a life in the U.S. that feels like a story worth telling. A story of new countries, getting intentionally lost in new cities, and deep talks at 1 AM about purpose, passion, and why we’re really here. Learn more at TamsynStrydom.com. Follow Tamsyn on Facebook and Instagram. As mentioned in this episode: Willingness:  Willingness is a concept and a corresponding skill that supports healing. When we are willing, we choose to be and engage with what we are experiencing. We don’t have to like it. We don’t have to believe that what is here is okay or even good. It’s the choice we make to be right here, right now, with everything just as it is, even if it means feeling pain or discomfort. Our instinct might be to pull away, yet we can develop the skill of willingness. Self-compassion: “I define self-compassion as the ability (and practice) of holding myself amidst failure, disappointment, and suffering of any kind, and in the face of these life contractions, to still be able to offer myself love and kindness. …It is the practice of loving ourselves out of shame and into wholeness – the place where we can connect to and embody our own capacity for radical self-love.” Jasin Deegan (Read the full quote here.)