

Things Above
Apprentice Institute
A Community of Learning Centered on Discipleship
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Apr 22, 2020 • 45min
Conversation with Natasha Sistrunk Robinson
As we continue to navigate through the coronavirus pandemic, James Bryan Smith has a Things Above conversation with Natasha Sistrunk Robinson. In this episode they discuss Natasha’s latest book as well as the difficulties that come with cultural biases in our communities.
Natasha Sistrunk Robinson is an international speaker, leadership consultant, diversity and mentoring coach with nearly 20 years of leadership experience in the military, federal government, church, seminary, and nonprofit sectors. She is the author of A Sojourner’s Truth: Choosing Freedom and Courage in a Divided World, Mentor for Life and its accompanying leader’s training manual, and the Hope for Us: Knowing God through the Nicene Creed Bible study.
She is the Visionary Founder and Chairperson of the 501(c)(3) nonprofit, Leadership LINKS, Inc. and host of A Sojourner’s Truth podcast. Natasha is a doctoral student at North Park Theological Seminary, and a graduate of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary Charlotte (cum laude, M.A. Leadership) and the U.S. Naval Academy. Natasha has served as a Marine Corps officer and employee at the Department of Homeland Security. You can visit Natasha’s website here.
Watch Natasha’s aTalk from the Apprentice Gathering 2019
Enjoyed this conversation? Check out our other great conversations below:
1. Conversation with Bill Gaultiere
2. Conversation with Derwin Gray
3. Conversation with Richella Parham
4. Conversation with William Paul Young
5. Conversation with Emily P. Freeman Part 2
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Apr 8, 2020 • 14min
God is in This
In Romans 12:2 Paul writes, “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds, so that you may discern what is the will of God—what is good and acceptable and perfect.” We can be transformed by the renewing of our minds. and that is what we do this podcast. Today’s thought from above is this: God is in this.
Thanks to the coronavirus pandemic, we have been hearing some really bad theology. We so badly want, not just a reason, but a divine reason for this epidemic. Many people want to believe that God caused this epidemic. And we realize that many people want a God like this. A God who punishes and purges people for their sins, but we have noticed that almost every person who holds this view never includes themselves. It is always about cleansing and purging and punishing others, never themselves and there are two major problems with this.
First, it assumes a system of just punishment. It assumes bad things happen only to bad people, and good things must always happen to good people. Second, it does not reflect the god revealed in Jesus.
Many of us are asking questions like; “Has God abandoned us? Is God not listening to our prayers?” Smith concludes with this answer: God is right here with us. Right in the middle of the suffering. God is, of course everywhere…
Related Episodes:
1. Conversation with Bill Gaultiere
2. Certainty in a Good Future
3. How to See Sin
4. Remember You Are Dust
5. Brighter Than the Sun
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Apr 1, 2020 • 36min
Conversation with Bill Gaultiere
In this episode James Bryan Smith has a Things Above Conversation with Bill Gaultiere. James and Bill discuss the importance of soul care, especially at a time when we are struggling with a global pandemic.
Bill is a Psychologist (PhD; PSY12036 in CA) and pastor/mentor to pastors. He writes and speaks to thousands of people every week through the Soul Shepherding website, blog, podcast, and Facebook page. He was personally mentored for many years by Dallas Willard and Ray Ortlund Sr. His recent book Your Best Life in Jesus’ Easy Yoke tells the story of his spiritual renewal from anxious living and burnout and introduces the message and way of Soul Shepherding.
Together Bill and his wife Kristi Gaultiere run the Soul Shepherding institute where they minister to pastors, leaders, staff teams, and their church or circle of influence. As Doctors of Psychology and Spiritual Directors, they help you to thrive with Jesus in life and leadership. Visit the Soul Shepherding website here.
If you would like to read Bill’s blog post “Dallas Willard Definitions” you can check it out here. Interested in reading the Apprentice Prayer? Read it here! Also, Bill mentioned his blog and podcast posts on the coronavirus which you can find here.
If you enjoyed this conversation be sure to check out some similar conversations below:
1. Conversation with Shane Blackshear
2. Conversation with Emily P. Freeman Part 2
3. Conversation with A.J. Swoboda
4. Conversation with William Paul Young
5. Things Above Conversation 1
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Mar 25, 2020 • 26min
Certainty in a Good Future
“For those alive in the kingdom of God, the world we live in is a perfectly safe place to be.”
– Dallas Willard
Life throws us many unexpected things, and we are now living in a time of uncertainty. None of us had planned for the virus to spread this rapidly. It is easy to be discouraged and feel upset at a time like this, but in this episode James Bryan Smith offers a different way to understand what is going on around us.
It is easy to to be discouraged but it is also a time to say, “what could this season be for me? How can I grow during this time?” Smith encourages us to view this as more of an opportunity than an inconvenience.
We have been given the gift of margin because of this virus. We have an opportunity to pray, read books, and enjoy those closest to us (in small gatherings). To help illustrate this idea smith recites the poem “Welcome to Holland” by Emily Pearl Kingsley.
Smith closes with the opening passage from the Heidelberg Catechism which you can read here.
Related Episodes:
1. How to See Sin
2. Adversity can be a Blessing
3. Remember You Are Dust
4. Conversation with William Paul Young
5. Blessed
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Mar 18, 2020 • 34min
Conversation with Shane Blackshear
James Bryan Smith has a Things Above Conversation with his friend and fellow podcast host, Shane Blackshear. Shane is a Jesus follower, blogger, speaker & host of the podcast Seminary Dropout. The Seminary Dropout podcast features interviews with Christian authors, leaders, and thinkers where they discuss a multitude of topics around Christianity and current events.
In this episode, James and Shane discuss the day to day decisions when hosting a podcast, as well as their favorite episodes and guests they have had. Shane met James at a Renovare conference back in 2000 and they stayed in contact throughout the years. In 2014 Shane had James on the Seminary Dropout podcast for an interview about Jim’s books from The Good and Beautiful Series.
Enjoyed this conversation? Listen to more below:
1. Conversation with A.J. Swoboda
2. Conversation with Jan Johnson
3. Conversation with William Paul Young
4. Things Above Conversation 1
5. Conversation with Emily P. Freeman Part 2
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Mar 11, 2020 • 15min
How to See Sin
The thought from above in this episode is: “We know our sin in relation to Him.”
Sin is a very difficult topic to talk about. One of the most important things we can do is to think about how we understand it.
We tend to be subjective to our own sin but objective towards the sin of others. We are often much more judgmental towards others and less on ourselves, because we naturally try to think well of ourselves.
Smith says our fundamental identity is that we are “One in whom Christ dwells and delights.” However there is still sin in our lives. To help understand how we can be both, one in whom Christ dwells and still a sinner, Smith recalls a sermon from John Wesley. In the sermon Wesley states, after you become a Christian you will still have sin in you life, but even though it remains in us, it must not reign over us.
When we look at the passage from Colossians (3: 1-5) Paul explains how we can understand our sin through relationship with Jesus. What Paul is saying in the passage is this; if you know who you are, as a person in Christ. Then it is Christ’s relation to who you are as a person that really helps you understand what sin is.
When we are in connection with Jesus we really understand the nature of our sin. The saving work of Christ does not excuse our sin, it exposes it for what it is and in so doing it provides the power to repent. Once we know our identity (One in whom Christ dwells) we can see that sin doesn’t fit in with our identity because sin by its nature destroys.
James closes with this, “We know our sin in relation to him. We know it, and we can, and only can, put it to death by the power of Christ within.
Related Episodes:
1. Superstition
2. Grace of God
3. Remember You Are Dust
4. Commanded to Thrive
5. Brother’s Keeper
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Mar 4, 2020 • 12min
Remember You Are Dust
“What repeatedly enters your mind and occupies your mind, eventually shapes your mind, and will ultimately express itself in what you do and who you become”
– John Ortberg
The Thought From Above in this episode is: “Remember you are dust.”
As we continue in the season of Lent we need to be reminded of the importance of the phrase “remember you are dust.” Lent begins with a special service known as Ash Wednesday. During the service there is what is called the “imposition of ashes,” where the ministers make the sign of the cross on people’s forehead. Before doing this the the lead pastor would typically say a few words. “Almighty god, you have created us out of the dust of the earth. grant that these ashes may be to us a sign of our mortality and penitence, so that we may remember that only by your gracious gift are we given everlasting life; through Jesus Christ our savior. Amen.”
After these words the members of the church come forward, as the sign of the cross is placed on their foreheads while the pastor says the following words: “Remember you are dust and to dust you will return; repent and believe in the gospel”
James asks us to reflect on this thought that actually is a thought from above, that we are, all of us, going to die. It is not something we like to think about. And in fact it is very hard for us to do. Psychologists tell us that it is nearly impossible for us humans to imagine our own death. We really do think we are not made to die. And in a very real sense that is true. We are, as Dallas Willard often said, ‘unceasing spiritual beings who have an eternal destiny.” All very true. And yet, we are, all of us, going to die. It is a reality none can escape.
Smith has come to believe that it is an extremely important spiritual exercise to remember our death. There is a name for this spiritual practice and it is called “memento more.” Which means “remember your death.” As legend has it, when a Roman emperor would ride through Rome after a great military victory, with the crowds chanting and screaming shouts of adulation, a person was assigned to walk behind the emperor saying those two words: memento more. Memento more. Remember your death, remember your death.
It was a way to keep things in perspective. Yes, you just accomplished a great victory, but remember, you are one day going to die. It keeps everything in check. He goes on to further explain this idea by telling a story about the famous musician Warren Zevon.
Warren was on the “Late Show with David Letterman” in 2002. Zevon was dying of mesothelioma, and Mr. Letterman asked him how his illness had changed him. “from your perspective now,” Letterman asked, “do you know something about life and death that maybe I don’t know now?” Warren Zevon answered: “I know how much you’re supposed to enjoy every sandwich.”
Zevon went on to say “You put more value on every minute…you know I always kind of thought I did that. I really always enjoyed myself. But it’s more valuable now. You’re reminded to enjoy every sandwich and every minute. I now know how good a sandwich tastes.”
This response blew James away, he did not expect this kind of answer but after pondering the response he began to understand what it meant. Memento more. Remember your death. Remember how good every moment is. Don’t take any of it for granted. Enjoy every sandwich. And as believers, we are also confident, as Paul said to the Colossians, “When Christ who is your life appears, you will also appear with him in glory.” Smith closes by saying, “You are one day going to die. But you are also one day going to glow. Until then, enjoy every sandwich.”
Interested in the Apprentice Gathering? Learn more and register here!
Related Episodes:
1. Conversation with Richella Parham
2. Commanded to Thrive
3. Conversation with Derwin Gray
4. Grace of God
5. Brighter Than the Sun
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Feb 19, 2020 • 50min
Conversation with Richella Parham
In this episode, James Bryan Smith has a Things Above Conversation with longtime friend and author Richella Parham. She is the author of Mythical Me: Finding Freedom from Constant Comparison, published by InterVarsity Press (October 2019) and of the Renovaré resource A Spiritual Formation Primer. Her online home is Imparting Grace; her physical home is Durham, North Carolina, where she lives with Jack, her husband of 34 years. Richella serves on the Ministry Team and Board of Trustees for Renovaré, a spiritual formation ministry founded by Richard J. Foster.
James and Richella discuss her latest book Mythical Me: Finding Freedom from Constant Comparison. In Mythical Me, Richella offers practical, next-step wisdom, all rooted in rich theological insight and offered with companionable, encouraging candor. If you’re finally ready to embark upon the slow, difficult, beautiful journey toward becoming yourself, you won’t find a better guide than Richella.
Interested in watching the aTalk Richella gave at The Apprentice Gathering 2019? Visit our YouTube page here to watch her aTalk.
Enjoyed this conversation? Listen to more conversation episodes below:
1. Conversation with Emily P. Freeman Part 2
2. Conversation with Casey Tygrett
3. Conversation with Josh Larsen
4. Conversation with Jen Pollock Michel
5. Conversation with A.J. Swoboda
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Feb 12, 2020 • 17min
Commanded to Thrive
James Bryan Smith begins this episode by sharing a story from Deuteronomy 30:15-19. In this passage, Moses offers some powerful words at the end of his farewell address. Moses essentially says: I have told you about God’s commands and, at the center of them all, is to love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. He concludes with a warning, “Obey these commands. If you do, you will find blessings. If you don’t, you will find curses.” Smith explains that it can be easy to be frightened by this story, especially if your narratives about God are that God is mean and angry and out to get you. But this passage is not about God being mean. Quite the opposite. God is simply telling the truth – something that is true of all of life.
What God truly desires is for you to thrive. Not merely survive. God wants you to thrive! Smith likes to say “we are all commanded to thrive.” He then goes on to tell a story about his friend Steve, who was fired from his job for choosing to do the right thing. This event caused Steve to re-evaluate his life. He felt God calling him to surrender, in humility, and to rip open the box he had put God in, and to integrate God in every area of his life—especially his work life. Steve spent seven long and painful months trying to make this change. The change occurred while he was driving on the highway, of all places. Suddenly he could see it clearly. He was now seeking first the kingdom of God.
James explains that not everyone has the same experiences as Steve, but that does not mean there is no hope. Adversity can be a blessing. God commands us to thrive. God wants you to walk in freedom and wholeness. But let’s be clear, we must never go after the blessing. We must go after God. God can make things happen in your life that you can never make happen. Making those things happen is not your job. Your job is to walk in obedience, love God with every fiber of your being and commit to walk in His ways.
Smith closes with this: “God is not limited by your supposed limitations. God is not limited by the things you don’t have, the resources you don’t have, or the skills you don’t possess. If you keep God in first place, God’s desire and command for you to thrive will overcome every struggle, every stronghold, every addiction, every obstacle you face. Your problems may be big, but the God who loves you is far, far bigger.”
Related Episodes:
1. Adversity can be a Blessing
2. Open Your Eyes
3. Brighter Than the Sun
4. Living Godward
5. Act of Faith
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Feb 5, 2020 • 13min
Brighter Than the Sun
In this episode of the Things Above podcast, James Bryan Smith gives this thought from above: “God is happy about you.” When Jim’s son Jacob was around 7 years old he asked him a question that brought tears to Jim’s eyes. Jacob walked up to his dad and asked, “Are you happy about me?” While Jacob’s grammar was incorrect his desire was not. He wanted to know, like many of us do, if the person he loved also loved him back.
Of course most of us want everyone to think well of us. And it hurts when we discover someone dislikes us, or is upset with us. But at our deepest core we long to know if the significant people in our lives are truly “happy about us.” Smith speculates that most of us live with some amount of deficit when it comes to truly feeling loved—loved without condition—by the significant people in our lives. That is why, for Smith, the real healing comes not from chasing the love and acceptance, but rather that healing comes when we encounter the Trinity—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
James quotes the late great theologian Ray Anderson to help explain the connection between the Trinity and this idea of being happy about our existence. Anderson writes “ministry precedes theology.” Ministry refers to the action of God on our behalf. And the action of God—God’s ministry toward us—determines our theology—what we think about God.
So theology is not merely dry speculation about God, for that we need to look at God’s ministry, namely, what God has done. Now we turn to the Christian story. God became human. The word of God took on flesh and dwelled among us. The Son of God, by the power of the Spirit, healed and forgave and showed love to the least, the lost and the unlovely. The second member of the Trinity—Jesus—willingly died in order to cancel our debt of sin, to reconcile us to God. That is God’s ministry—or rather, the Trinity’s ministry—on our behalf. What does that ministry teach us theologically? Smith would say that these actions loudly state that the Trinity is happy about us!
Smith closes with one of his favorite quotes of all time from John of Kronstadt. “When you are dejected, remember this: that God the Trinity looks upon you with eyes brighter than the sun.”
Related episodes:
1. God’s Beloved
2. Roots in the Future
3. Blessed
4. Adversity can be a Blessing
5. Already Present
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