Science of Reading: The Podcast

In this episode, we dive deep into the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), also known as the Nation’s report card. Chester Finn, Jr., author of the new book Assessing the Nation's Report Card: Challenges and Choices for NAEP, joins Susan to talk about the NAEP assessment. They discuss how the assessment works, what it is and isn’t, and what benefits and opportunities it provides as the achievement gap continues to grow.Show Notes:Assessing the Nation's Report Card: Challenges and Choices for NAEP by Chester Finn, Jr.Want to hang out with Susan and chat live about this episode of this podcast? Don’t miss our next “Off the Pod” FB live on our Community Facebook Group, where you can ask Susan your questions in real time!Also, join Susan on Sept. 26, as she kicks off a webinar series all about building a Science of Reading ecosystem. The first session will focus on demystifying the Science of Reading and MTSS. Additional resources:PolicyEd video: “Overhauling the Nation’s Report Card” | Perspectives on PolicyFlypaper: “Assessing the Nation’s Report Card: Challenges and choices for NAEP”Education Next piece: “It felt like guerrilla warfare”Webinar: What you may not know—but should—about the Nation's Report CardChester Finn bio at Thomas B. Fordham InstituteQuotes:“For this to work, we need both great teachers and great curricula.” —Chester Finn“The single most important thing NAEP cannot do [is that] it cannot in any definitive way explain why scores are what they are or are rising or falling.” —Chester FinnEpisode Content Timestamps*1:00: Introduction: Who is Chester E. Finn Jr.?2:00: The History of NAEP9:00: What is NAEP and how does it work?16:00: Long term assessment23:00: NAEP and achievement gaps26:00: Next step with NAEP29:00: State-level impact of NAEP results31:00: Why isn't education more front and center in policy today?34:00: Level of concern and literacy prognosis37:00: Limitation and opportunities around NAEP40:00: What does "It's all about the students" mean to Chester Finn?*Timestamps are approximate, rounded to nearest minute

In our kick-off episode for season six, host Susan Lambert is joined by podcast alum Margaret Goldberg, the co-founder of the Right to Read Project.  They discuss the new, animated Science of Reading series Brain Builders, and how this free tool can be shared directly with students and with their caregivers. Importantly, Margaret also elevates the need to focus on the comprehension strand of the Science of Reading.Show Notes: Right to Read ProjectBrain Builders animated videosBrain Builders: VIP launch partyKnowledge at the Center of English Language Arts Instruction by Gina Cerveti and Freddy HeibertQuotes: “We looked at Scarborough's Rope. If we're really focused just on word recognition, we're not going to get all of our kids to where they need and deserve to be." —  Margaret Goldberg“It's never too late to learn how to read. We can get you there.”   —  Margaret Goldberg

In this episode, Susan Lambert was joined by Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan to discuss the unique challenges and opportunities presented when teaching multilingual learners how to read. Dr. Cárdenas-Hagan is a bilingual speech language pathologist and a certified academic language therapist. She is also the director of Valley Speech Language and Learning Center in Brownsville, Texas. On the podcast, she and Susan talked about how teachers can make connections between students’ home languages and English in order to celebrate their language and give them new tools to better understand English. She stressed the importance of teachers educating themselves on their students’ home languages so they can spot orthographic and phonological similarities and differences, and highlighted the importance of educator collaboration to drive student success.Show notes: Literacy Foundations for English Learners: A Comprehensive Guide to Evidence-Based Instruction by Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-HaganPresentation: “Making Connections for Structured Literacy Instruction Among English Learners”Reading SOS special video series: Expert Answers to Family Questions About ReadingOnline book study of Literacy Foundations for English Learners By Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-HaganMylanguages.orgPodcast surveyQuotes:“The more we’re able to read, the more we’re able to learn.“          —Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan “Sometimes as teachers, we feel so overwhelmed with, Oh, I don't know that language. How in the world am I going to introduce a whole new thing? Instead we should be starting to understand connections.”        —Dr. Elsa Cárdenas-Hagan 

Dr. Nancy Nelson, assistant professor of special education at Boston University, discusses myths and misconceptions around RTI, MTSS, and assessment screening in reading and mathematics instruction. She highlights what tools need to be in place for the RTI system to be implemented well, her work on DIBELS®, and the importance of dyslexia screeners.Show notes: DIBELS® at the University of OregonPodcast SurveyQuotes:“Relying on data allows us to engage in a systematic process to implement systems to meet the needs of all kids.”           —Dr. Nancy Nelson

Join Sonia Cabell, associate professor at the School of Teacher Education at Florida State University, as she shares findings from her research trials on content-rich literacy curricula and discusses whether activating students’ background knowledge alongside explicit phonics instruction is more effective than the traditional approaches. She also describes what constitutes “compelling evidence” in the Science of Reading and explains why students need to interact with both written and spoken language while learning to read.Show notes: Florida Center for Reading ResearchCore Knowledge Language ArtsWriting Into Literacy TEDx Talk by Sonia CabellNational Reading Panel Report 2000EdWeek Science of Reading article by Sonia CabellSpecial Issue: The Science of Reading: Supports, Critiques, and QuestionsLive with the Author interviewThe Power of Conversations: Building Primary Grade Students’ Vocabulary and Comprehension in a Changing Educational Landscape by Sonia CabellTwitter: @SoniaCabellQuotes:“The knowledge that you have about a particular subject matters for your reading comprehension.”        —Sonia Cabell“When I think about content-rich English Language Arts, I think about how we can integrate science and social studies into the language arts in ways that make sense.”     —Sonia Cabell

Jacquey Barber, director emerita of The Learning Design Group at UC Berkeley's Lawrence Hall of Science, joins the podcast to discuss her research on the symbiotic relationship between literacy and science, as well as what educators should be looking for in high-quality, literacy-rich science curricula. She also goes into strategies for engaging students, including the do, talk, read, write model, then ends the episode by highlighting the many ways science supports reading.Show notes:UCLA CRESSTThe Knowledge Gap: The Hidden Cause of America's Broken Education System—and How to Fix It by Natalie WexlerNo More Science Kits or Texts in Isolation by Jacqueline Barber and Gina Cervetti.Podcast Discussion GuideQuotes:“Literacy is a domain in search of content; science is a domain in need of communication.” —Jacquey Barber“Develop opportunities for students to learn to read, write, and talk like scientists do.”—Jacquey Barber

Dr. Amy Murdoch is the assistant dean of Reading Science in the School of Education at Mount St. Joseph University. She received her doctorate in school psychology with an emphasis in early literacy from the University of Cincinnati. In this episode, she chats with Susan Lambert about creating prominent graduate and doctoral programs in the Science of Reading, and the responsibility of training the next generation of early literacy educators. She discusses how she has seen Science of Reading interest escalate, shares her hopes for the future of reading science in schools, and offers advice for those who are new to the Science of Reading and/or exploring an advanced degree rooted in reading science.Show notes: Beginning to Read by Marilyn AdamsMeaningful Differences in the Everyday Experience of Young American Children by Betty Hart and Todd R. RisleyProject Ready! An Early Language and Literacy Program to Close the Readiness Gap - Research articleMount St. Joseph University Reading Science ProgramCenter for Reading ScienceQuotes:"Don't do it alone, try to find community and find people you can, you know, your trusted colleagues that you can bounce ideas off of and grow your learning."—Dr. Amy Murdoch"Sometimes things are not completely clear and we need to collect more evidence in data and we do the best we can until we kind of refine a practice that we're trying to figure out, especially for children who really have significant struggles with reading."—Dr. Amy Murdoch"We're all working towards the same goal of helping all children enter the world of reading successfully and continue that path of reading successfully."—Dr. Amy Murdoch

Mickey Smith Jr. is an acclaimed Louisiana educator, author, saxophonist, and self-described "solutionist" who feels a strong calling to help educators and teachers. Mickey, who received the Grammy Music Educator Award in 2020, brings his motivational blend of music and message to this very special episode in which he and Susan Lambert discuss music, perseverance, and finding purpose as educators and human beings. In between interludes of uplifting songs and stories, Mickey shares his proven principles for helping educators create sound connections and culture in today's classrooms. He also describes his methods for providing all-purpose encouragement and offers a tangible approach to finding one's own personal mission statements—or, as he likes to call it, our legacy song.Show notes: Mickey Smith Jr.  - WebsiteSee the Sound -  PodcastThe Keep Going TourQuotes:“I want to share some of the things that helped me to keep going, so that someone else won’t miss their next and best steps.”—Mickey Smith Jr. “I believe we all have a sound. I think our success comes, number one, from the promises we make and keep with ourselves, but also the authenticity we live out that sound with.”—Mickey Smith Jr. “If we all have a sound, ultimately I think our goal should be to create a legacy song.”—Mickey Smith Jr.“The sound I’m talking about is not the audible but the internal. It’s that thing that leaves an effect with folks beyond what you just teach them. It’s how you reach them.”—Mickey Smith Jr.

Dr. Desirée Pallais-Downing is an assistant professor of instruction in the Bilingual/Bicultural Education Program at the University of Texas at Austin. Having lived in Nicaragua, England, the United States, and Spain, she has experienced bilingual learning across four different countries. In this episode, she differentiates between sequential and simultaneous bilingualism, and the importance of assessment in the home and second languages before diving deep into the linguistic structures of Spanish vs. English. She also offers advice for non-Spanish speakers on the best ways to support Spanish speakers.Show notes:Dr. Desirée Pallais-Downing - WebsiteQuotes:"The way we position students in our classrooms can open or close opportunities for them to shine. When we bring in their knowledge and cultural experiences, we open more opportunities for them to be successful."- Dr. Desirée Pallais-Downing"There's very strong research on how language and literacy skills are transferable from Spanish to English, and that transfer from Spanish to English is not automatic."- Dr. Desirée Pallais-Downing

Dr. Kymyona Burk is Policy Director for Early Literacy at the Foundation for Excellence in Education (ExcelinEd). In this role, she supports states pursuing a comprehensive approach to K–3 reading policy. She joins host Susan Lambert to give listeners a look behind the curtain of the legislative process creating education policy, including writing and passing literacy legislation, the politics of advocating for the Science of Reading within legislation, and what the results look like for states that have this legislation in place.Show notes: ExcelinEd profile pageThe Perfect Storm: Mississippi’s Momentum for Improving Reading Achievement - The Reading League JournalAmplify’s Virtual Symposium 2022 - Celebrating Biliteracy: Realizing a Better Future for Our Spanish SpeakersQuotes: “A literacy law is an equity law … there has to be some type of consistent language around what effective reading instruction looks like in classrooms.”— Dr. Kymyona Burk