Brave Ideas

Connect with the WorkBold Podcast Team: • Host Caleb Parker: LinkedIn • Collaboration Partner Morgan Pierstorff: LinkedIn Summary: Award winning podcast host and Founder of Bold, Caleb Parker interviews Bert Erik ten Cate, a seasoned expert covering the European property industry since 2003. Bert Erik shares valuable insights on the current challenges facing the real estate market and draws comparisons between the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) and today's market conditions. He emphasises the differences, particularly in banking practices, that make the current situation less vulnerable. Bert also discusses the impact of remote work on the demand for office spaces, the rise in interest rates, and the need for repurposing assets to meet sustainability standards. Discover how institutional investors like PIMCO are leaning toward debt investments and why there's still room for optimism in the real estate market. Don't miss this engaging conversation on the evolving landscape of commercial real estate. Takeaways: • Banks are less exposed to real estate risks, reducing the likelihood of massive bank failures. • Remote work is prompting a reevaluation of office space needs, potentially leading to a surplus of vacant spaces. • Rising interest rates are impacting financing and valuation of real estate assets. • Repurposing non-prime assets to meet sustainability and demand for flexible spaces is a challenge but necessary. • Institutional investors like PIMCO are favoring debt investments over equity in the current market. Mentions & Shoutouts: • Read Bert Erik’s article about Why Pimco’s Real Estate Chief Annette Kroeger Prefers Debt to Equity Connect with today’s guest: • Bert Erik ten Cate: Website | LinkedIn Sponsors: NorNorm: Website | LinkedIn NORNORM is a subscription-based furnishing model, letting your business adapt to the needs of tomorrow. Beautiful, affordable and fully circular. NorNorm's vision for the workspace of the future is simple. Place circularity at the core and demonstrate how this is better for business, people and the planet. By embracing NorNorm, real estate can drastically produce CO2 emissions and waste production, driving us closer to a greener future. Fortune Favours the Bold: Website | LinkedIn Bold merges property management & Space-as-a-Service to help office customers grow faster and drive asset value. Bold is a real estate brand owned and operated by NewFlex. Future Proof Your Portfolio with NewFlex: Website | LinkedIn NewFlex delivers and manages a range of branded solutions for every type of building, in every type of location, for every type of occupier. Including the flexibility to develop your own brand. All enabled by flexible management contracts where we are invested in making money for you. Launch Your Own Podcast: A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Connect with the WorkBold Podcast Team: • Host Caleb Parker • Collaboration Partner Morgan Pierstorff Summary: Award winning podcast host and Founder of Bold, Caleb Parker hands the mic over to Simon Abboud to lead this dynamic conversation around how young leaders view the future of work and the future of office real estate. Simon Abboud is Director of European Management Services at the Hines Real Estate Company and Board Member of the Young Leaders Executive Committee for ULI Europe. Simon engages in a unique panel-style discussion with young leaders from the 3 corners of the commercial real estate industry: Customer, Investor and landlord Nishar Fatema, Global Workplace Strategist, Workplace Services at ServiceNow Brice Hoffer, Portfolio Management Global Real Estate Multi-managers at UBS Paras Maalde, General Counsel and Vice President, Legal at Brookfield Properties These young leaders are actively involved in associations such as the Urban Land Institute, CoreNet Global, and Real Estate Balance, providing diverse perspectives on the future of work. This panel style episode delves into the 3C Strategy (Culture, Community, and Connectedness) and how it can bridge expectations between occupiers, landlords, and investors. They also explore the role of ESG in shaping the industry's future and the importance of urban regeneration. Listen this panel of young leaders as they uncover bold ideas in commercial real estate. Takeaways: • Young leaders in the commercial real estate industry are adopting a 3C strategy (Culture, Community, and Connectedness) to enhance employee engagement and bridge expectations among stakeholders. • Landlords are responding to changing occupier needs by creating destinations in their properties, offering diverse programs and wellness activities, and collaborating on ESG goals. • Investors are adjusting their strategies, reducing exposure to secondary office assets, and focusing on prime properties in response to the changing dynamics of the office space. • NorNorm's circular model reduces CO2 emissions by up to 70% and promotes resource efficiency. • Customers can track their climate impact and incorporate it into their ESG reporting. • Flex spaces are at the forefront of industry discussions, with a focus on innovative partnerships for sustainability. • Generation Z seeks engagement, mentorship, and instant validation in the workplace. • Landlords should actively partner with occupiers to create inclusive and purpose-driven environments. • Invest in regenerating existing real estate assets for a more sustainable future.   Sponsors: NorNorm: Website | LinkedIn NORNORM is a subscription-based furnishing model, letting your business adapt to the needs of tomorrow. Beautiful, affordable and fully circular. NorNorm's vision for the workspace of the future is simple. Place circularity at the core and demonstrate how this is better for business, people and the planet. By embracing NorNorm, real estate can drastically produce CO2 emissions and waste production, driving us closer to a greener future. Fortune Favours the Bold: Website | LinkedIn Bold merges property management & Space-as-a-Service to help office customers grow faster and drive asset value. Bold is a real estate brand owned and operated by NewFlex. Future Proof Your Portfolio with NewFlex: Website | LinkedIn NewFlex delivers and manages a range of branded solutions for every type of building, in every type of location, for every type of occupier. Including the flexibility to develop your own brand. All enabled by flexible management contracts where we are invested in making money for you. Launch Your Own Podcast: A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Welcome to the trailer for Season 10 of the Work Bold Podcast, hosted by awarding winning Podcaster, Caleb Parker! In this trailer we drop the spoilers on a few surprises in store for you this season. Including a little diddy for your next Karaoke outing... Season 10 explores the rapidly evolving landscape of commercial real estate, with a particular focus on the next generation of leaders, with many episodes recorded on site a the Urban Land Institute's European Conference in Madrid, Spain. Whether you're an investor, fund manager, developer, property manager, agent, or broker, this podcast is your guide to understanding the changing dynamics of the industry. Special Shoutouts  •We're proud to announce our headline sponsor for Season 10, NorNorm, a subscription-based furniture model aiming to enhance workspaces for people, businesses, and the planet.  •Explore future-proofing your portfolio with coworking and flex spaces solutions at Newflex.com for valuable information on adapting to the changing real estate landscape. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you get each episode delivered to your podcast app. Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Understanding the NorNorm business model. Quote from Guest: “We are disrupting the whole business model of furniture.” Douwe Dirks Summary: Douwe Dirks, CCO of NorNorm joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 10 of Season 9 where they discuss how NorNorm are trying to disrupt the business model of furniture. In this episode Caleb and Douwe discuss the circular ecosystem being created that reduces carbon output, the benefits of subscription furniture, helping office real estate savine cash and provide better agility to office customers and how furniture-as-a-service becomes a standard for Space-as-a-Service. Connect with Douwe on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: I think that was the biggest driver initially and the biggest uptake for our service. - Douwe Our pitch is very simple: invest in your company, not in furniture. - Douwe We take away that whole hassle of the furniture part of the Fitout - Douwe If you are that company or CEO or procurement officer that thinks that you can procure furniture for 10 years and your business won't change, fine. We're not your partner. - Douwe NorNorm maybe only does 60% of a floor or 70% of a floor, and there's still CapEx remaining to do the rest. - Douwe Timestamps:  (0.20) Growth plans for NorNorm (01.07) Biggest drivers in the market (04.16) Partnership between NorNorm and Covivio (05.15) NorNorm’s fundraising rounds (05.55) Why NorNorm wanted to MIPIM (07.08) NorNorm’s business model (10.15) Business case for using NorNorm (14.09) How they work as a plugin (15.29) Furniture as a service (17.42) Synergies between NorNorm and Design & Build Companies (19.20) The companies quality assurance (19.51) Their carbon report Resources: Covivio IKEA Verdane Netflix Volvo Deutsche Bank Heineken WeWork Shout outs: Jonas Kjellberg Antony Slumbers Olivier Esteve Melanie Jones About Douwe Dirks Douwe Dirks is CCO of NorNorm, a subscription-based furnishing service that helps businesses adapt to changing workspace needs. Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com  Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

An interview with art historian Sneha Shah Quote from Guest: “Art is like this universal language” - Sneha Shah Summary: Sneha Shah, Founder and CEO of Curaty joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 9 of Season 9  where  they discuss the impact art can have on community both within and around our buildings. In this episode Caleb and Sneha discuss art as service, how curated art can provide inspiring and inclusive environments and the hashtag #WhiteWallsSuck Connect with Sneha on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: Even before we had language that was verbal, it was visual. - Sneha It's one of the oldest human organisational frameworks that we've created to be in touch with ourselves, but also with each other. - Sneha How can we actually create spaces that respond to the people that are actually working there. - Sneha Being surrounded by art sometimes creates the same kind of effect as being in nature, because at the end of the day, it's human touch. - Sneha The values are the consistent piece, but the display of those values can vary. - Caleb Since the day we were founded our hashtags have been  #noNakedWalls and #wechampionartists. - Sneha Timestamps:  [01.44]  The history of art in the environment and why it’s important. [03.44] Using art to represent power [05.52] The feelings art can create [07.24] Are organisations beginning to use art to reflect their brand? [11.42] How to curate a space that can be accommodating to everyone [15.23] Using art spaces for wellbeing [16.34] Can office spaces be uniformed and still create inclusive environments? [19.09] Collaborations with art and artists [20.35] Can you measure the impact of art within a space? [21.48] Curaty’s art as a service program Resources: University College London Rotary Club International School of Art Institute Chicago Forbes 30 under 30 JP Morgan Dream the World Anew Shout outs: Giorgio Vasari Anthony Slumbers Jane Beaumont About Sneha Sneha Shah is the Founder and CEO of Curaty who buy and Rent curated fine art from the world's most inspiring artists and curators. Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com  Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Why data is the key to reducing energy consumption. Quote from Guest: “The real challenge for the industry is about the current building stock. - Khadija Nadi Summary: Khadija Nadi, CEO of DeltaQ joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 8 of Season 9 where they discuss the challenge with achieving netzero on current building stock. In this episode Caleb and Khadija discuss how real estate can reduce their carbon footprint, the importance of data,  its vital role in improving transparency and whether there will be a new pricing model for companies who use less energy. Connect with Khadija on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: The reality is that 90% of the buildings that are here today will still be here in 2050. The real challenge for the industry is about the current building stock. - KhadijaWithout doing the retrofitting, they're gonna lose customers, they're gonna be hit with penalties and ultimately their energy costs are gonna go up. - Caleb The HVAC system, heating, ventilation, and cooling, that's about 60% of the total consumption of an office building. - Khadija On the current portfolio that we're steering to save around 20% on the total building 20% of CO2 and energy. - Khadija Let's say 30, 40% of it can go immediately to an autopilot where we can, after just a couple of months, reduce drastically the consumption. - Khadija Timestamps:  (0.19) The conversations DeltaQ are having at MIPIM (02.06) The gap between customers requirements and availability (03.08) How DeltaQ help landlords with retrofits (04.12) DeltaQ’s flagship product (0.529) Making sense of data (07.51) Business models for retrofitting (10.03) The tenants role in achieving netzero (12.06) Attracting new talent into real estate (15.01) Trends in energy consumption throughout the working week Resources: Elion Real Estate Generali About Khadija Nadi Khadija Nadi is CEO of DeltaQ the Headline Sponsors for the #WorkBold podcast. She is also a Board member of Oya Seed and a Strategic Advisor for Impact Capital. Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Repurposing for new office customer demand Quote from Guest: “They want to challenge the status quo, do things differently.” - Sascha Lewin Summary: Sascha Lewin Chief Executive Officer at WRE joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 7 of Season 9 where they discuss the opportunities with repurposing and repositioning products in commercial real estate in an economy that makes it difficult to create financial returns. In this episode Caleb and Sascha discuss the challenges of having an in demand product but not being able to roll it out quickly, the gap between supply and demand, the importance of community on every project and WRE’s approach to Space-as-a-Service. Connect with Sascha on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: One of the interesting things about ESG is it means something different to different people. For some it's carbon and for others it's about inclusivity. - Sascha It has to have an emotional connection and that remains our fundamental processing approach. - Sascha They want to challenge the status quo, do things differently. - Sascha We're going to see income being generated not anymore, or not entirely by space, but also by providing service. - Sascha We engaged with the public through public consultation, which we do in most major projects. And this was by far the most respondents we had ever seen. - Sascha We are not gonna build our own team because we  believe that right now, every building that we develop, we need a different approach. - Sascha Timestamps:  (01.32) Why Sascha wanted to attend MIPIM [03.30] Sascha’s view on the ULI report and whether to bridge the supply and demand, gap investors and asset managers need to invest in ESG initiatives [05.33] The criteria W.RE look for when an acquisition opportunity comes into their funnel [10.12] WRE’s work with up and coming consultants [12.25] WRE’s approach to the S in ESG [15.02] Their community approach on the Clapham Junction project [17.38] Does WRE lean into the growth demand for Space-as-a-Service? [19.59] Does WRE have an inhouse team or do they curate the right operator for an asset? [23.01] Sascha’s restaurant recommendations in London and Cannes Resources: 75 Grosvenor Street ULI 2023 Conference Clapham Junction Project Trillion Dollar Hashtag Shout outs: Nor Norm Covivio Lisette Van Doorn Daniel Chang About Sascha Lewin Sascha Lewin is Chief Executive Officer at W.RE an independent investment, development and asset management specialists in commercial real estate.  Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com  Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Why we need minimum standards to reach net zero. Quote from Guest: “The construction of buildings, over the lifetime of the building, is tenfold the environmental impact of the operational ongoing impact.” - Peter Fisher Summary: Peter Fisher, Director at Bennetts Associates joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 6 of Season 9 where they discuss the impact of upfront emissions as well as the operational carbon emissions.  In this episode Caleb and Peter discuss reuse of existing building stock, the increased use and positive impacts of timber within construction and the current issues this presents, as well as setting a standard in net zero carbon emissions and how office design and services are evolving. Connect with Peter on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: The timber square project that we're doing, I think the structure there is about 20-25% lighter than a conventional steel composite structure would've been with concrete in it. - Peter There are definitely not life safety issues around and the insurance issues are around asset protection. - Peter There's almost a sustainability arms race happening amongst commercial development. - Peter What I think a few years ago would've probably been considered imperfections are now considered character. - Peter What we can't have is buildings that are highly bespoke. Those are the ones that always seem to come unstuck. - Peter Timestamps:  [01.55] Teaser of Peter’s episode on BBC Radio Four Show, Costing the Earth [3.10] Repurposing or new developments? [04.55] Why timber? [07.16] Timber Square Project [08.09] Limitations with building in timber [09.25] Is timber a risky material to use for building? [11.07] Why Peter wanted to attend MIPIM [12.20] Setting a minimum standard for net zero carbon [14.26] How office spaces are evolving [17.37] Does flexible working change how buildings are designed? [20.48] Are office spaces becoming more like hospitality spaces? Resources: Timber Square Rip It Up And Start Again MIPIM Road to Zero Departure of Architecture, University of Cambridge CitizenM Hotels Shout outs: Nor Norms Covivio Simon Sturgis Built By Nature Benjamin Bach David Partridge Basil Demeroutis Andy Pyle About Peter Fisher Peter Fisher, Director at Bennetts Associates, who create sustainable & enduring architecture. He is currently leading Timber Square in Southwark and Brent Cross Town 19, projects that are pushing both net zero carbon workplace and hybrid and full timber construction respectively. Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com  Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

Leaning into Space-as-a-Service, culture and community. Quote from Guest: “Our buildings incorporate amenities and wellness spaces, but we also consider how they sit in the wider community.” - Dan Hyde Summary: Dan Hyde, Development Director at MEPC Limited joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 5 of Season 9 where they discuss the importance of embedding community, culture and inclusivity into city centre developments and existing infrastructure. In this episode Caleb and Dan discuss whether Manchester is fit for Generation Alpha, the different projects MEPC Ltd are working on across the UK and leaning into space as a service as a leasing strategy. Connect with Dan on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: We were surprised that a lot of what they said in terms of the workplace and how that's got to be was around inclusivity, about being kind, about feeling happy, about feeling supported. - Dan Making sure that we are really involved in the community, not the community the communities, because it's made up of lots of different communities, how we involve them all in its progression and its evolution over the 10 year period. - Dan How do you value it from day one? - Dan Flex has been solving those, what we call touchdown spaces for quite some time. -Caleb With the flex, with these added amenities, it's much more attractive proposition. - Dan Its really elevated Manchester to be a really attractive proposition for International companies looking to inward invest into the UK,  as a genuine alternative to London. - Dan We're doing this for investors, but that gives it longevity. That will mean the next lease cycle people are still there to let up these buildings because they want to be part of that environment. - Dan Timestamps:  [0.36] Why Dan wanted to attend MIPIM [01.30] Is Manchester fit for generation Alpha? [02.39] What the NOMA Project is [04.29] How they  incorporate space as a service into their assets [07.15] The challenges with how buildings are valued [08.50] Current trends with flex space [10.19] Why is Manchester on fire? [13.24] Future proofing community spaces Resources: NOMA PWC Federated Hermes Standard Practice Shout outs: Wellington Place Paradise Birmingham St Mary Le Port Sam Gamble John Rowan Becca Heron Andy Burnham About Dan Hyde Dan Hyde, Development Director at MEPC Limited who manage some of the UK's best known commercial property, with seven Business Estates set in prime locations throughout the UK. Together they provide over 4 million sq ft of high quality space for more than 350 organisations, employing over 12,000 people. With a portfolio in excess of £650 million Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com  Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe

A CRE masterclass with CapMan’s COO Quote from Guest: “Property owners can earn higher rents from that space than if they were leasing it traditionally to say one single tenant.” - Ilkka Tomperi Summary: Ilkka Tomperi, Partner & COO at CapMan Real Estate joins Bold founder Caleb Parker for Episode 4 of Season 9 where they discuss the importance of changing with the times and ensuring assets don’t become liabilities. In this episode Caleb and Ilkka discuss CapMan’s value added strategy, and how they are approaching the growing gap between supply and demand in office real estate. They also discuss how the world of office and hotel real estate may merge and how this would change the business model. Connect with Ilkka on LinkedIn Connect with Caleb on LinkedIn  If you have any questions or feedback on this episode, email podcast@workbold.co Value Bombs: I believe the future of Office Real estate is what the hotel industry looks like - Caleb For us that means that we are in principle mostly a value add investor. And repositioning assets is actually very much in our heart. - Ilkka If we don't invest in these retrofits, in bringing these assets up to speed, they will become stranded assets. And that becomes a liability. - Caleb You may have in a building a couple of tenants with three five year leases and then some others with 12 month notice periods. So that brings the weighted average lease length down in a building. - Ilkka I think that the lines between the asset classes are blurring a little. - Ilkka The office market is changing extremely rapidly at the moment. - Ilkka Timestamps:  [01.49] Why Ilkka wanted to attend MIPIM [03.41] How Capman are facing the changes happening in real estate [5.22] Lease structures in Finland [08.22] Can historical data be used to predict cash flow? [09.33] Will the future of offices look like hotels? [10.41] Capman’s recent deal in Stockholm [12.27] Examples of office and hotel assets being combined [13.31] Smaller and larger companies working together to lease space [14.33] The best markets for global investors  [18.06] Core capital and investors [18.41] Where different investor profiles are concentrating Resources: Urban Land Institute Capman Stockholm Project Shout outs: Nor Norms Real Innovation Academy Lisette Van Doorn About Ilkka Tomperi Ilkka Tomperi is Partner & COO at CapMan Real Estate, a leading Nordic private asset expert with an active approach to value creation. Ilkka is also a Professor of Practice (Real Estate Investment) at Aalto University. Connect with Ilkka on Twitter Sponsors: Headline Sponsor: DeltaQ DeltaQ is a Top 3 European PropTech solution for reducing the carbon footprint of the built environment. Operating from the centre of Brussels, they have developed a solution that learns to predict the behaviour of a building (in context of comfort and energy use) and leverages these predictions to automatically steer the energy systems. DeltaQ improves comfort while maximising energy and CO2 savings and allows operational teams to turn their attention to added value work instead of repetitive tasks and constant finetuning. When deployed over a large volume of buildings, DeltaQ will deliver an important contribution to realising the world’s ambition in the fight against climate change. Launch Your Own Podcast A Podcast Company is the leading podcast production and strategic content company for brands, organisations, institutions, individuals, and entrepreneurs. Our team sets you up with the right strategy, equipment, training, guidance and content to ensure you sound amazing while speaking to your niche audience and networking with your perfect clients. Get in touch jason@apodcastcompany.com  Get full access to Brave Ideas at www.braveideas.media/subscribe