The Voices of War

My guest today is Jason Pack, who is the author of ‘Libya and the Global Enduring Disorder’. Jason is also a Senior Analyst for Emerging Challenges at the NATO Defense College Foundation in Rome where he leads a program titled ‘NATO and the Global Enduring Disorder’, which seeks to produce a range of content analysing our current era of geopolitics while proposing actionable solutions to our most pressing collective action challenges. Jason is also the President of Libya-Analysis LLC, a boutique consultancy providing strategic advice to any organisations seeking to make sense of the latest political, economic, commercial and security developments in Libya. He is also the founder of the US-based non-profit ‘Eye on ISIS’, which conducts research into Islam and Islamist movements in and outside of Libya. Some of the many topics we covered are: Jason’s background and entry into the study of conflict Behaviouralist, rather than realist, view of International Relations Meaning of ‘incumbent psychology’ Decline in American exceptionalism Defining the Global Enduring Disorder ‘Deliberative disorder’ as a political policy Difference between the war in Iraq and conflicts like Libya, Syria, Yemen, Venezuela or Ukraine Some of the causes behind the Global Enduring Disorder The benefits of a global hegemon Why market economics was not enough to unite the world Western failures after the Cold War The importance of social trust to domestic order Absurdity of Libya and its representation of the Global Enduring Disorder The complexity of the Global Enduring Disorder The role of technology and social media in the Global Enduring Disorder If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

My guest today is my good friend, Duncan Spinner. Since 2015, Duncan has been working in Ukraine and for four years was the OSCE Head of Operations for Luhansk. Apart from sharing information on the current situation in Ukraine, this episode is also an appeal for your help in getting at-risk individuals out of harm’s way. As you’ll find out, Duncan and a small team of professionals are informally helping some of the most-vulnerable civilians whose lives are in grave danger. Please consider supporting the below GoFundMe page. Every donation helps save the lives of innocent Ukrainians. https://www.gofundme.com/f/smm-veterans-for-smm-local-staff Some of the other topics we covered are: Snapshot of Duncan’s extensive experience working in conflict affected nations Work in Ukraine as the OSCE Head of Operations for Luhansk Questioning the Russian mindset, interpretation of victory and relationship to time Reflecting on the ‘Russian way of war’ The power of narrative and risk of hubris Informal rescue of at-risk and vulnerable Ukrainians from danger The reality of those fleeing Ukraine Getting personal protective equipment to fighters in Ukraine The moral imperative of doing something to help Supporting Duncan and his team If you like what you’ve heard, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

Today, I spoke with Dr Deane-Peter Baker, a military ethicist, who is an Associate Professor of International and Political Studies in the School of Humanities and Social Science at UNSW Canberra, where he also is co-Convenor of the UNSW Canberra Future Operations Research Group. Deane’s work focuses mainly on the ethics of armed conflict. His current area of focus is on ethics and special operations, and he is a regular consultant to Australia’s Special Operations Command as well as the Australian Defence Force more broadly. He joins me to today to discuss one of his recently published books, Morality and Ethics at War: Bridging the Gaps Between the Soldier and the State. Some of the topics we discussed are: Deane’s entry into the field of military ethics Difference between ethics and morality Idea of individual freedom Inculcating moral frameworks Distinction between jus ad bellum and jus in bello ‘Disciplined disobedience’ Understanding ‘ethics inhibitors’ in a military context Training with ethics in mind Moral drift and moral injury The ‘Guardian ethos’ Interests vs values argument ‘Ethical triangulation’ If you like what you’ve heard, please consider taking 30 seconds to like and review the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

My guest today is Dr David Whetham who is a Professor of Ethics and the Military Profession in the Defence Studies Department of King’s College London. He is the Director of the King’s Centre for Military Ethics and delivers or coordinates the military ethics component of courses for around two thousand British and international officers a year at the UK’s Joint Services Command and Staff College. In 2020 David was appointed as an Assistant Inspector-General to the Australian Defence Force to assist in the final stages of the Afghanistan Inquiry and is the author of the report’s final Annex. He joined me to discuss issues of military ethics. Some of the topics we covered include: David’s journey into military ethics Defining military ethics Jus ad bellum vs Jus in bello Government and military tension when jus ad bellum is not met Political leaders’ impunity when sending troops to war Interests vs values debate Impact of broken justifications for war Afghanistan and impact of poor mission definition Narrative vs reality and resulting disillusionment Impact of the environment and whether atrocities in war are inevitable Preparing our troops for moral dilemmas Environmental elements that contribute to ethical demise Special Forces, but not special Mitigating circumstances to atrocities Ethical drift and institutional responsibility Realistic training for ethical dilemmas Training to make the right decision, quicker David mentioned the recent launch of a free app to help military service members make more informed decisions. You can find the app for both Apple and Android by searching for Military Ethics: Cards for Humanity.     

My guest today is Carl Miller who is the co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos. For the past nine years, he's been building new machine learning-driven approaches to robustly study online life and has written over 20 major studies spanning online electoral interference, radicalisation, digital politics, conspiracy theories, cyber-crime, and internet governance.  His debut book, The Death of the Gods: The New Global Power Grab was published in 2018 and won the 2019 Transmission Prize. He presents programmes for the BBC's flagship technology show, Click and has written for Wired, New Scientist, the Sunday Times, the Telegraph and the Guardian. He joined me to discuss Information Warfare, cyber-attacks, weaponisation of social media and other challenges, and to do so with a particular focus on the ongoing invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we discussed are: Carl’s entry into this field Terrorists as conspiracy theorists Profiling a conspiracy theorist Understanding data On the ‘Death of Gods’ The power of open-source intelligence Emergence of information warfare Frictionless engagement and the Attention Economy TikTok and censoring of data Has Ukraine really won the Information War against Russia? Suspicious Pro-Russian influence operations in BRICS countries Background and methodology of the BRICS research Assessment of pro-Russian campaigns in BRICS countries Cost of attacking vs defending against information operations Risk of hubris You can find out more about Carl and his work here, and you can see his recent research on pro-Russian influence operations in BRICS countries here.

Today, I spoke with Dr Peter Warren Singer, who is a Strategist at New America, a Professor of Practice at Arizona State University, and Founder & Managing Partner at Useful Fiction LLC. He is a New York Times Bestselling author with a multitude of accolades to his name. His non-fiction books include ‘Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry’; ‘Children at War’; ‘Wired for War: The Robotics Revolution and Conflict in the 21st Century’; ‘Cybersecurity and Cyberwar: What Everyone Needs to Know’ and most recently, ‘LikeWar: the Weaponization of Social Media’, which is the book we talked about today. Peter is also the co-author of a new type of novel, using the format of a technothriller to communicate non-fiction research. ‘Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War’ was both a top summer read and led to briefings everywhere from the White House to the Pentagon. His latest is ‘Burn-In: A Novel of the Real Robotic Revolution’ and has been described by the creator of Lost and Watchmen as “A visionary new form of storytelling—a rollercoaster ride of science fiction blended with science fact,” and by the head of US Army Cyber Command as “I loved Burn-In so much that I’ve already read it twice.” Some of the topics we covered are: How the concept of #LikeWar was born The individual vs social media The power of storytelling in communication The role of social media in the invasion of Ukraine Social media – shifting the Who, the When, and the Where Ukrainian application of best practices Disconnectedness of Russian narrative Justness of the Ukrainian cause 'Democratisation' of war The malleability of the ‘truth’ Lessors learnt from Ukraine’s During the chat, I referred to an article Peter recently published with Politico. You can access it here. If you like what you’ve heard, please take 30 seconds to like and review the show wherever you get your pods. It will help the show grow. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar  

Today, I spoke with Dmytro Gurin, who is a currently serving Member of Parliament in Ukraine. Dmytro is originally from Mariupol, the besieged city in South-eastern Ukraine that is capturing global headlines, where he has spent his childhood and where he went to university. In the past, Dmytro has also spent more than a decade living in Moscow and is very familiar with Russian political and media machinations.  He joins me today, just after midday on Sunday, 13th of March, Eastern European Time, to discuss the evolving Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are: Current situation in Ukraine Change of Russian tactics to target civilians General Russian orientation towards Ukraine The reality faced by Russian troops Life in the besieged city of Mariupol Western predicament and possible ways forward What Ukraine needs from the West Possible scenarios inside Russia Difference between Ukrainian and Russian armies The state of the Ukrainian nation

My guest today is MAJGEN Mick Ryan, who only days ago officially retired from more than 35 years of service in the Australian Army. During this time, he has deployed on multiple overseas deployments, has commanded troops at platoon, squadron, regiment, task force, and brigade level, and among the many awards for service and excellence he has received, in 2008, Mick was also awarded the Order of Australia for distinguished leadership of the Australian 1st Reconstruction Task Force in Afghanistan. He is a recognised expert in leadership, institutional strategy, technology, organisational adaptation and change management, institutional reform, as well as personnel development. Mick is also a prolific writer and speaker, with a particular focus on thinking about and preparing for the battlespace of the future. This is also what his recently published book is all about. It is titled ‘War Transformed: The Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict’ and is a deep dive into how four key disruptors, namely geopolitics, demographics, technology, and climate change, will impact great power rivalry. In short, Mick explores how the dynamics of the nascent fourth industrial revolution and its interplay with the ongoing changes in the way we live as well as dramatic shifts in global affairs will transform tomorrow’s wars. He joined me today to talk about his book and how it relates to the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of the topics we covered are: Nature vs. Character of war Russian vs. Ukrainian Information Operations Why Putin is fundamentally losing, so far The role of surprise in this invasion Re-emergence of Europe Russian military deficiencies Two principal decisions Ukraine is facing The importance of time in the current war Importance of leadership in war Critical role of logistics Impact of the Russian invasion on China Are ‘our’ wars, different to ‘their’ wars? 21st Century as showdown between Democracy vs. Authoritarianism Lessons learnt from the Russian invasion You can find out more about MAJGEN Mick Ryan here. I also recommend you follow his Twitter page (@WarintheFuture) for regular updates on the current crisis and beyond. Lastly, you can view and purchase his book 'War Transformed: The Future of 21st Century Great Power Competition and Conflict' here.

This episode was recorded at 1000h CET on 27 Feb 2022.  --- Today, I spoke with Arne Dalhaug and Wolfgang Sporrer, both of whom I recently interviewed independently about the crisis in Ukraine (links with longer bios below). Arne is a retired three-star Norwegian Army officer, who also served as a senior officer in NATO and, more-recently, as a senior leader at the OSCE in Ukraine. Wolfgang is currently an Adjunct Professor at the Hertie School in Berlin and was recently the head of the Human Dimension Department of the OSCE in Ukraine. They join me today to discuss the invasion, current crisis and possible future outcomes. Some of the topics we covered are: Reason behind Putin’s ultimate invasion Influence and importance of social media Narrative control in Russia Zelenskyy and his communication skills Russian military and its failures to date Impact of sanctions and financial measures Energy sector and Nord Stream 2  China’s orientation towards the invasion and Russia Other strategic tensions influencing the current situation Putin’s options from here You can find more-extensive biographies of both guest in our previous discussions below:  Special Release: Lieutenant General (Ret.) Arne Bård Dalhaug: On the current Russia/Ukraine crisis Special Release: Wolfgang Sporrer - Providing nuance to the crisis in Ukraine --- If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar

My guest today is Marc Garlasco, who began his career as the Chief of High Value Targeting at the Pentagon between 1997 and 2003 where he led targeting teams during operations Iraqi Freedom, Desert Fox, and Allied Force. Marc later worked in senior roles at Human Rights Watch, the United Nations, and the Centre for Naval Analyses. Throughout his time, he has worked in Afghanistan, Gaza, Georgia, Iraq, Israel, Kosovo, Lebanon, Libya, and other conflict zones. He is a co-author of the ICRC report on Explosive Weapons in Populated Areas, and a co-host of the excellent The Civilian Protection Podcast that tells the story of those harmed by war, but whose voices are rarely heard. Marc is currently the military advisor at PAX, the largest peace organisation in the Netherlands and works to protect civilians against acts of war, to end armed violence and to build inclusive peace. Some of the topics we covered are: Marc’s journey into targeting Developing a picture of Iraq 9/11 and (absence of) link to Iraq Deliberate vs dynamic targeting The failed targeting of Saddam Why targeting fails Incentives vs intelligence Impact of ‘humane’ war How a Collateral Damage Estimate (CDE) is conducted Reconciling the fact that not all lives are worth the same Use of drones and accuracy of battle damage estimates Changing policy to reduce civilian harm Building bridges between NGOs and the military Impact of our wars on soldiers fighting them Marc and I discussed The Civilian Protection Podcast, of which he is a co-host. You can access all episodes of this excellent project here. Marc also mentioned the upcoming release of a US Department of Defence Memorandum, to be signed by the Secretary of Defence, that will direct the development of a comprehensive plan to mitigate and respond to civilian harm. That memo has now been released and is worth reading. You can find it here.  ----- If you like what you hear, please consider liking and reviewing the show wherever you get your pods. You can also support the show on our Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee page on the links below: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thevoicesofwar Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thevoicesofwar