Breaking Down Patriarchy

It’s not exactly a secret that the Church of Latter-Day Saints and gay rights haven’t gone hand-in-hand historically. In fact, for many decades now the Church has vocally campaigned against marriage equality, making it one of the leaderships pre-eminent political concerns and codifying heteronormativity in Church doctrine. While some discriminatory policies have changed over time (for example, the Church no longer teaches that same-sex attraction can be ‘cured’ and no longer requires children of same-sex couples to denounce their parents, as it did until 2019) it would still be inaccurate to imagine that the Church is embracing the queer community to its fullest.In fact, if you go to the official website for the LDS Church right now you can read a statement where they claim that same-sex attraction itself is not wrong, but it is a ‘challenge’ and that acting on those feelings is a sin. Gay members of the Church who choose to publicly kiss and embrace the person that they love may face punishments including probation, disfellowship, or (for those who refuse to repent) excommunication—a total severance from the bonds of their community and faith. Official Church statements refer to same-sex relationships as ‘transgressions’ ‘temptations’ ‘wickedness’ and ‘sin’. The Church emphasizes the importance of marriage and family as absolutely essential for human happiness and salvation after this life, and yet it unequivocally prohibits marriage and family for gay people, condemning them to a life of celibacy and solitude. On today's episode we hear from two guests — Colette Dalton & Autumn McAlpin — who share their experiences with queer identity and the LDS Church. On today's episode we hear from two guests — Colette Dalton & Autumn McAlpin — who share their experiences with queer identity and the LDS Church. Colette Dalton (she/her) is a therapist in Utah and specializes in working with people around faith transitions and sexuality. She co-hosts a podcast called Called to Queer, which holds space for queer Mormon women, genderqueer, and intersex folks. In her free time, she enjoys practicing Pilates, reading, and listening to wayyyy too many podcasts.Autumn McAlpin (she/her) is a writer, filmmaker and dedicated voice of advocacy and equality for our LGTBQIA+ population—in particular in the LDS space. Autumn pens the weekly LGBTQIA+ family profile stories at liftandlove.org, and is also an active supporter and fundraiser for Encircle, which provides safe spaces, friendship circles, classes, and subsidized therapy to LGBTQIA+ youth.

Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Chloe Agyin and Lakshan Lingam.Chloe and Lakshan are members of a nonprofit organization called Encircle. Their mission is to bring together family and community to enable queer youth to thrive. Encircle provides services like support groups, educational and creative programs, and accessible mental health services in a safe and beautiful environment. In cities throughout Utah and other states where queer youth are most at risk. We're so happy to feature this casual candid discussion between Chloe and Lakshan when they were together at the Encircle house in Salt Lake City, discussing identity, gender, orientation, and the power of representation.Chloe Agyin (they/them) is a queer multiracial social worker in Salt Lake City, Utah. At the moment they work as the Home Director of an LGBTQ+ Family and Youth Resource Center. Chloe has had the privilege of working with LGBTQ+ individuals in a variety of capacities, and they hope to continue this life-saving work. Chloe’s dream is to open up a queer bookstore in the South that is focused on amplifying voices of QBIPOC authors and provides a safe space for everyone that enters. When Chloe is not working, they enjoy being outside it in the sun exploring the beautiful landscape that is Utah.Lakshan Lingam (he/they) is an undergraduate student pursing a degree in Gender Studies and Arts Technology at the University of Utah. As Executive Assistant, they help oversee the day-to-day administration and operation of Encircle. In their spare time, they enjoy searching for new music and spending time with their brother.Visit the Episode Page here.

Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Sebastian Stuart-Johnson and Kylee Shepherd, two members of The Black Menaces.The Black Menaces started in February, 2022. The group made a reaction video to a BYU professor’s insensitive comments about black people in the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and the video instantly went viral on TikTok. The Black Menaces are a group of five friends; Sebastian, Kylee, Rachel, Nate, and Kennethia. Rachel and Nate are recent BYU alumni, Kylee and Kennethia are entering their senior years, and Sebastian is finishing his junior year. The goal of the Black Menaces is to shine light on the problems and issues that happen at predominantly white institutions and enact change. They hope for a better future for any and all minorities that are mistreated and underrepresented. Visit the Episode Page here.

As women and our allies continue to share knowledge, resources, and take action to dismantle oppressive structures, the progress we make is being met by oppositional movements. Here in America, the MRA Movement (or Men’s Rights Activism) continues to expand its reach and intensify its rhetoric, with prominent MRA leader Matt Forney going so far as to say “Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.” Meanwhile, crimes targeting women and girls have only continued to increase world-wide. The picture this paints seems clear – some men are aggressively pushing back to protect a repressive status quo and when women voice frustrations with the situation or – yet it is not uncommon to hear cultural and political leaders continuing to claim, as Sen. Josh Hawley did only a few months ago, that “men are under attack.” And believe it or not, I’m going to agree with Senator Hawley on that point…Men are under attack, but not from feminists and others fighting for equality; men are under attack from the very same patriarchal institutions which diminish the rest of us. They are taught that there is a small box of acceptability that they must fit into or be shamed (or worse). Most damaging of all, men continue to be taught not to speak up against other men in situations of injustice, not to upset the normativity of a repressive system which ultimately serves none of us.But if all of us work together, we have the collective power to put a stop to these systems and build a world that works for people of all genders. And that’s why today I’m excited to be bringing men’s voices to the table – men who are ready to pull away the wool patriarchy has draped over their eyes and speak out about injustices they’ve observed and even participated in. We’re so grateful to share their courageous voices with you today.Andy Dunn (he/him) co-founded menswear brand Bonobos and served as CEO until its 2017 acquisition by Walmart. As an investor, he has backed more than eighty startups, including Warby Parker, Coinbase, Away, Glossier, Real, Parade, SeatGeek and Alula. His memoir, Burn Rate: Launching a Startup and Losing My Mind, explores the intersection of entrepreneurship and mental illness.Ian McAllister (he/him) is a father and small business owner in Portland, Oregon. When he’s not chasing his two year old daughter around you can usually find him at a farmers market, on the ski slopes, paddling the rivers of the Pacific North West, or cheering at a college football game.Visit the Episode Page here.

In her landmark book, Of Woman Born, Adrienne Rich writes that “At certain points in history, and in certain cultures, the idea of woman-as-mother has worked to endow all women with respect, even with awe, and to give women some say in the life of a people or a clan. But for most of what we know was the “mainstream’ of recorded history, motherhood as institution has ghettoized and degraded female potentialities.” In this quote, Rich highlights the stark difference between the way our cultural thinks it respects women and the way it actually regards them. It can be a wonderful thing to praise mothers — to celebrate the women around us who channel their love, energy, and resources into the art and the work of raising children — but too often we forget that our cultural ideal of a ‘mother’ is not always accessible nor is it the ideal motherhood for all women. So what happens when a mother doesn’t match up to our institutional expectations? And what happens when a woman decides she doesn’t want to be a mother at all?On today’s episode, we're digging into these questions as we’re joined by two spectacular guests each trusting us with her own story of how motherhood as an institution has haunted their lives: an Anonymous Contributor who speaks about the realities of unwed motherhood, and returning friend of the podcast, Lane Anderson, who shares her own experiences of having the mantle of motherhood assumed and foisted upon her.Lane Anderson (she/her) was raised in Salt Lake City, Utah. She has an undergraduate degree from BYU, and a graduate degree from Columbia University. She has spent much of her career as a full-time journalist, publishing hundreds of articles on inequality, human rights, gender, and social and family issues. She has received several Society of Professional Journalists Awards, and a fellowship from the USC Annenberg School of Journalism for her writing on human trafficking. She lives in New York City with her partner and young daughter, and she is full-time faculty at New York University where she is a Clinical Associate Professor teaching writing. She co-writes Matriarchy Report, a newsletter about family issues from a feminist perspective on Substack, and on Instagram @matriarchyreportVisit the Episode Page here.

Throughout history women have been misrepresented as villains and monsters: witches, demons, succubus, and beyond. And this misrepresentation of our bodies and minds as evil is no accident! Rather, the vilification of women is a practical tool of patriarchal systems which remains painfully relevant today. After all, if we cast women as monsters, that must make the men controlling them heroes—and who would want to listen to the words of a she-demon? Who would want to vote for one?The damage caused by this vilification is long lasting, so in order to help us unpack some of its history and present-day impact two remarkable women joined us for this episode — Dr. D’Vorah Grenn and Lucy Allebest.Lucy Allebest (she/her) studies History at the University of St Andrews. She enjoys dancing, organizing, wearing green, and sleeping at any time of day or night. Her greatest joy is hugging her parents and her greatest fear is the Pixar lamp. She hopes to one day do something interesting enough to write a bio longer than sixty words. D'vorah J. Grenn (she/her) Ph.D. and Kohenet, is Founding Director, The Lilith Institute (1997). She co-directed the former Women's Spirituality MA Program at Institute of Transpersonal Psychology/Sofia University, and founded Mishkan Shekhinah, a movable sanctuary honoring the Sacred Feminine in all traditions. D’vorah leads the Institute’s Lilith’s Fire Circle, does a “Tending Lilith’s Fire” broadcast/podcast with Kohenet Annie Matan and also serves as a spiritual mentor and guide.  Visit the Episode Page here.

This week best-selling author Gabrielle Blair sits down with Amy for an unabashed interview about reproductive rights, contraceptives, and why we continue to prioritize men’s pleasure over women’s health and safety.Gabrielle Stanley Blair (she/her) created an award-winning blog called Design Mom (still going strong 15 years later!), wrote a NYT best-selling book, founded a popular conference called Alt Summit, wrote four viral Twitter threads (and counting!), moved to France, and is raising 6 kids while renovating a house from the 1600s.Visit the Episode Page here.

From the very beginning on this project it has been my belief that the unjust construct of patriarchy causes harm to people of all genders, including men. Today it’s my delight to be joined by a deep and generous thinker, Bob Rees, who’s going to help us interrogate that belief and unpack some specifics of both how patriarchy can painfully impact men as well as some of the ways men, and patriarchs even, can act as our allies in this work of dismantling oppressive structures. Along the way, Bob will be reciting poetry, offers thoughtful insight, and reflecting on his personal history surrounding trauma and abuse. We’re so excited to be sharing Bob’s story with you, but listeners may want to be aware that this segment will include some challenging content such as sexual abuse, self-harm, and violence — please consider if this material might affect you and take care of yourselves accordingly. Bob Rees (he/him), is an activist scholar, poet and humanitarian. He is a Visiting Professor and Director of Mormon Studies at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. Previously, he taught at UCLA, UC Santa Cruz, and UC Berkeley. He is the co-founder of the Bountiful Children's Foundation, which addresses malnutrition among Latter-day Saint children in the Developing world.To learn more about Bob and his work to wipe out childhood malnutrition, be sure to visit the Bountiful Children Foundation.Visit the Episode Page here.

Many women face realities of patriarchy from alarmingly young ages — the damage that this can cause a child is something we’re still only first coming to understand…and yet, there’s another side to this equation as well: what happens when we hide the truth of our oppression from children? What happens when we raise little girls to believe that the ugliness of patriarchy is behind us, when we tell them feminism was a tool of the past and mis-represent our present-day world as an egalitarian fairy tale?On today’s episode Amy is joined by creatrix and educator Jessica Harder to explore exactly this dilemma as she shares her stories of growing up with equality-colored glasses, making her way into adulthood and a workforce rife with misconduct, and ultimately takes us into the fashion industry, the Me Too movement, and far beyond.As a note to listeners, be aware that this episode contains discussion of sexual harassment and abuse. Please be kind to yourselves and take care accordingly.Jessica Harder (she/her) has spent her life revolved around the human body. She began filtering her creativity into designing clothing for the body at the age of four, which led into a fifteen-year career in the fashion industry. At the age of 23 she moved to the Netherlands, where she ,met her husband and lived for six years. After moving back to the United States she changed careers and began teaching yoga and meditation. As a yoga teacher, Jessica has taught athletes training for the Olympics, rock climbers, senior citizens, babies, children, convicted convicts, people with drug and alcohol addiction, yogis, mothers, and pregnant women. She has devoted her career to teaching individuals to come into a deeper awareness of the body and mind. During the pandemic, she started a women’s group called Moms Together Six Feet Apart, which provides support to mothers giving birth during the pandemic. Jessica is currently working on her first book about prenatal yoga and raising her two children.Visit the Episode Page here.

This week Amy is joined by Shannon Johnson to help us zoom in even further to more fully unpack the practice of polygamous marriage in the LDS church and its impact on individual women. Not only do we learn some surprising and essential history, but Shannon trusts us with the story of her own journey coming-of-age within the church community and wrestling with polygamy on a personal level.Shannon Olena Hyatt Johnson (she/her) grew up mostly in Utah and went to BYU, where she met her husband, who was also an English major. She has taught conversational English in Japan and Cairo, and now works in admin at Stanford. She is currently writing a master's thesis on race, polygamy, and the Mormon family. Shannon has three daughters and a non-binary child, ranging in age from 11 to 21. Shannon likes hiking, yoga, British tv, and trashy romance novels.Visit the Episode Page here.Recommended Reading & ListeningYear of Polygamy (podcast) ~ Lindsay Hansen ParkSunstone Mormon History Podcast (podcast) ~ Lindsay Hansen Park and Bryan BuchananPioneers (poem read by author) ~ Carol Lynn PearsonYour Sister in the Gospel: The Life of Jane Manning James, a Nineteenth-Century Black Mormon (book) ~ Quincy D. NewellSally in Three Worlds: An Indian Captive in the House of Brigham Young (book, also Audible) ~ Virginia KernsMore Wives than One (book) ~ Kathryn Danes“Heathen in Our Fair Land: Anti-Polygamy and Protestant Women’s Missions to Utah, 1869–1910” (PhD Thesis) ~ Jana RiessThe Mormon Question: Polygamy and Constitutional Conflict in Nineteenth-Century America (book) ~ Sarah Barringer Gordon“The family, morality and social science in Anglo-American cooperative thought, 1813-1890” (PhD Thesis) ~ Tara Westover (also, Educated)The Legacy of Adam-God in the Mormon Theology of Heteropatriarchy (blog post) ~ The Grand ScoobahDoing the Works of Abraham: Mormon Polygamy―Its Origin, Practice, and Demise (book) ~ B. Carmon HardyReligion of a Different Color: Race and the Mormon Struggle for Whiteness (book) ~ W. Paul ReeveRace and the Making of the Mormon People (book) ~ Max Perry Mueller