

Beyond The Interface (BTI)
Jay Tulloch, Warren Nugent
Hosted by Jay Tulloch and Warren Nugent, this podcast explores the intersection of design (UX), product management, and technology, with insights from industry leaders on leadership, trends, and hard-hitting topics.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 29, 2025 • 1h 33min
Daniel Tuitt: Designing Across Borders! Culture, Influence, and the Future of Service Design
SummaryIn this conversation, Daniel shares his experiences living between Dubai and Riyadh, highlighting the cultural differences and unique aspects of each city. He discusses the importance of embracing diversity and learning from global experiences, particularly in the context of design and technology. Daniel emphasises the evolving design landscape in Saudi Arabia, the significance of mentorship, and the role of service design in enhancing customer experiences. He also addresses the challenges and opportunities presented by technology adoption in the region, advocating for a balanced approach that prioritises human interaction alongside technological advancements. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the evolving landscape of service design, the impact of AI on design careers, and the essential skills needed for success in a competitive job market. They discuss the importance of reflection, mentorship, and resilience, while also exploring how to identify top talent and the role of influence in leadership. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the nuances of influence in decision-making, the evolving role of AI in leadership, and the importance of adapting leadership styles to meet team needs. They discuss the challenges of managing direct reports, fostering a collaborative design community, and the significance of a holistic design perspective. The conversation culminates in reflections on the future of service design leadership and the skills necessary for designers to thrive in strategic roles.TakeawaysDaniel enjoys the cultural diversity between Dubai and Riyadh.Riyadh has unique cultural aspects that differ from Dubai.Travelling has helped Daniel adapt to various cultures.Mentoring the next generation of designers is fulfilling for Daniel.Saudi Arabia is evolving with Vision 2030.The design maturity in Saudi Arabia is growing but still developing.Technology adoption in Saudi Arabia is influenced by local culture.Service design connects customer experience with business strategy.Understanding the Saudi customer requires cultural sensitivity.Service design is essential for organisations to make informed decisions. Service design simplifies complex issues for better understanding.Anyone can be a designer; it's about problem-solving.AI is changing the landscape for junior designers.Curiosity and storytelling are key skills for designers.Resilience is crucial in navigating career challenges.Reflection journals help in personal and professional growth.The job market is competitive; unique skills are essential.Mentorship can provide valuable insights and guidance.AI can enhance but not replace human creativity.Influence is vital for effective leadership. Influence is about helping others make the best decisions.Understanding stakeholders' perspectives is crucial for effective influence.AI may change the dynamics of decision-making in leadership.Effective communication is key to preventing micromanagement.Leaders should adapt their styles to fit team members' needs.Building a collaborative design community enhances creativity.A holistic view of design helps break down silos in organisations.Service design can evolve through strategic thinking and influence.Leadership requires understanding the context of team members' lives.AI can be a tool for leaders to enhance team performance.KeywordsDubai, Riyadh, cultural insights, design evolution, mentorship, technology, customer experience, service design, Saudi Arabia, global experiences, Service Design, AI Impact, Design Careers, Job Market, Reflection, Mentorship, A-Players, Skills Landscape, Influence, Leadership, influence, decision making, AI, leadership, team dynamics, service design, collaboration, design community, holistic perspective, leadership styles

Oct 14, 2025 • 1h 54min
Darren Hood: Why UX needs gatekeepers: Saving the discipline from itself
In this engaging conversation, Darren Hood shares his extensive journey in the UX field, discussing the evolution of user experience design, the importance of emotional intelligence, and the challenges faced in UX leadership. He emphasises the need for humility and understanding within the discipline, while also addressing the misconceptions that persist in the industry. The discussion highlights the significance of UX maturity and the role of effective leadership in advocating for user experience. In this conversation, Darren Hood discusses the complexities of UX maturity, the misconceptions surrounding UX/UI, and the importance of gatekeeping in the field. He critiques the effectiveness of boot camps in preparing individuals for UX roles and emphasises the need for a solid educational foundation. The discussion also delves into the implications of AI in UX, highlighting the necessity for human expertise in navigating the evolving landscape of user experience design.KEY TAKEAWAYSThe organic nature of many UX careers.The evolution of UX has seen a shift from intuitive design to a more structured approach, yet misunderstandings persist.Emotional intelligence is crucial in UX, as many practitioners lack self-awareness and humility.The misconception of UX roles leads to hiring unqualified individuals, impacting the discipline's integrity.UX is an infinite science, requiring continuous adaptation and learning.The importance of UX maturity management is often overlooked in organizations.Leadership in UX requires a deep understanding of both UX principles and business needs.Many aspiring leaders in UX may not have the right motivations or qualifications for leadership roles.The visual appeal of design often overshadows the actual impact of UX work in hiring decisions.A strong UX leader must advocate for the discipline and ensure proper representation within organizations. A company lacking UX maturity emphasizes aesthetics over functionality.The abstract nature of UX makes it difficult for some to understand its value.Many people mistakenly conflate UX with UI due to popular trends.Gatekeeping in UX is essential for maintaining quality and standards.Boot camps often fail to provide the depth of knowledge needed for UX roles.University programs offer a more structured approach to UX education than boot camps.AI's high error rates raise concerns about its reliability in UX design.Experts are crucial in interpreting and validating AI-generated designs.UX is fundamentally a strategic role, not merely focused on visuals.Respecting the history and foundations of UX is vital for future growth.

Sep 30, 2025 • 1h 25min
Johannes Robier: The future of UX and embracing 'wow moments' in a digital age
In this episode, Johannes Robier discusses his unique approach to UX design, emphasizing the importance of creating 'wow moments' that focus on user enjoyment rather than mere efficiency. He explores the evolving expectations of users, the role of personalization, and the impact of AI on human-centered design. Robier advocates for the need for accreditation in UX to establish professional standards and highlights the significance of networking within the UX community. He also shares insights from the World UX Tour and his future initiatives aimed at promoting human-centered design.Links:Johannes' LinkedInGet your tickets to World Usability CongressUX AccreditationChapters:00:00 Introduction to Johannes Robier01:05 The Concept of WoW Creation03:58 Designing for Experience vs. Efficiency06:54 The Evolution of Wow Moments09:34 The Role of AI in UX Design13:47 Human-Centered Design in an AI World17:23 The Future of UX and AI20:27 Valuing UX in Organizations24:25 The Importance of Research in UX28:20 Bridging the Gap Between UX and Management42:44 Bridging the Gap Between Management and Design46:58 The Evolution of UX Roles and Responsibilities51:02 The Role of Product Managers in UX54:50 The Importance of Standards in UX59:51 Creating a Professional UX Community01:07:03 The Future of UX Accreditation01:13:34 The World UX Tour and Creating Experiences

Sep 16, 2025 • 1h 10min
Amber Jabeen: Design is about emotions, not just numbers...
In this episode, Amber Jabeen shares her journey from Pakistan to becoming a design leader in the banking and FinTech sectors. She discusses the challenges and opportunities in the financial design space, emphasizing the importance of emotional intelligence in design, the need for empowerment and psychological safety within teams, and the significance of diversity in leadership. Amber also highlights the role of mentorship, the impact of remote work on team dynamics, and the necessity of creating a culture that encourages innovation and risk-taking. She concludes with insights on upcoming design events and community-building initiatives.Links:Ambers LinkedInDesignOPS MenaDesignOPS Mena Youtube ChannelChapters:00:00 Introduction to Amber's Journey02:49 Transitioning into Banking and FinTech05:49 Challenges in the Financial Design Space09:09 Empowering Design Teams in Banking11:51 Creating a Safe and Creative Environment15:03 Navigating External Challenges in Design17:50 Building a Strong Design Culture20:51 The Importance of Collaboration in Design23:50 Remote Work and Team Dynamics27:08 Leadership Insights for Women in Design29:52 The Role of Mentorship in Leadership33:07 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome36:01 The Need for Diversity in Leadership38:48 Intentional Hiring Practices41:48 Learning Through Failure44:54 Encouraging Innovation and Risk-Taking47:50 The Role of AI in Design50:54 Upcoming Design Events and Community Building

32 snips
Sep 2, 2025 • 1h 28min
Vy Alechnavicius: In today’s market, juniors compete with ex-heads of design.
Vy Alechnavicius, an award-winning UX leader and best-selling author, shares his journey through the competitive landscape of UX design. He highlights the challenges junior designers face, particularly with seasoned professionals vying for the same roles. Vy emphasizes the importance of continuous self-learning, effective personal branding, and practical experience over traditional portfolios. He also discusses the evolving role of design leaders and the impact of AI on the industry, providing insights essential for aspiring designers.

Mar 4, 2025 • 1h 18min
Lisa D. Dance: Companies don’t know how frustrating they are until it’s too late.
In this episode, Lisa D Dance shares her journey from a young age, where her passion for improving customer experiences began, to her current role as a UX researcher and author. She discusses her book, 'Today is the Perfect Day to Improve Customer Experience,' which highlights the importance of understanding customer needs beyond just technology. Lisa emphasizes the significance of effective feedback loops, the cost of poor customer experiences, and the concept of unpaid customer labor. She introduces her frameworks, including the 3Q Do No Harm framework, aimed at helping organizations proactively identify potential harms in their products. The conversation also touches on the ethical implications of technology in customer experience and the future challenges that lie ahead.Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/ldance/https://serviceease.net/Lisa's book: https://serviceease.gumroad.com/3Q-Do No Harm Framework: https://serviceease.net/3q-do-no-harm-frameworkChapters:00:00 Introduction to UX and Customer Experience01:10 The Early Signs of a UX Advocate04:26 Transitioning to User Experience Research06:45 The Book: Improving Customer Experiences10:47 Understanding Organizational Blind Spots14:34 Bridging Feedback Loops in Organizations17:26 Incentivizing Customer Experience Improvements20:32 The Cost of Poor Customer Experiences24:25 Measuring Customer Experience Value27:23 The Importance of Basic Customer Service29:57 Unpaid Customer Labor and Its Implications40:12 Navigating Customer Experience in a Tech-Driven World43:23 Addressing Unpaid Customer Labor48:45 The Importance of Customer Feedback and Testing49:12 The Power of Storytelling in Customer Experience52:34 Introducing the 3Q Do No Harm Framework59:07 Implementing Ethical Frameworks in Design01:03:26 Future Challenges in Ethical Design01:10:03 Target Audience and the Impact of Storytelling

Feb 18, 2025 • 1h 25min
Laura Baker: Designers don’t need a seat at the table—they need to shape the conversation.
Laura Baker, MD at Fearless and a seasoned leader in UX and service design, discusses her unexpected journey into leadership. She highlights the critical role of adaptive management styles and shares insights on building thriving team environments. Laura emphasizes the importance of hiring for culture, creating a shared vision, and the balance between design ambitions and organizational realities. The conversation also touches on the future of design operations and effective storytelling to secure stakeholder support, advocating for collaboration at every level.

Feb 4, 2025 • 1h 16min
Jacalin Ding: Want influence? Prove you understand the business, the market, and the bigger picture.
Jacalin Ding, a dynamic course creator and speaker, shares her enlightening transition from designer to entrepreneur, emphasizing the vital need for designers to embrace business acumen. She discusses the challenges of side hustles and the role of resilience in entrepreneurship. The conversation explores the intersection of design and strategy, advocating for designers to understand stakeholder needs and engage in strategic thinking. Jacalin also highlights the importance of networking, especially for introverts, and the evolving design landscape influenced by technology.

Jan 21, 2025 • 1h 36min
Indi Young: Continuous discovery without guide rails... is just collecting anecdotes.
In this episode, Warren, Jay and Indi Young delve into the world of qualitative data science, exploring the importance of listening deeply to understand user experiences and the evolution of data science that listens. Indi shares her journey from computer science to qualitative research, emphasizing the need for empathy and understanding in design. The conversation covers the significance of identifying patterns in qualitative data, the concept of saturation in research, and the future of research methodologies. Indi advocates for a shift towards empirical knowledge and cognitive empathy in understanding user needs, ultimately aiming to create better products and services.Links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/indiyounghttps://indiyoung.com/https://indiyoung.com/training/#courses-listhttps://indiyoung.com/resources/Chapters:00:00 Introduction to Qualitative Data Science08:12 The Evolution of Data Science That Listens22:48 Finding Patterns in Qualitative Data40:22 Framing Studies and Understanding Stakeholder Needs53:51 Knowledge Creation Over Research01:04:23 Framing Studies and Listening Sessions01:11:26 Tactical Approaches to Research01:19:20 The Role of Research Teams01:26:44 The Future of Research

Jan 7, 2025 • 1h 39min
Felix Lee: From a 19-year-old kid who got scammed to building a global movement in design mentorship
In this episode of the Beyond the Interface podcast, we sit down with Felix Lee, Co-founder and CEO of ADPList, and a Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree. Felix has reshaped how mentorship is accessed, creating a global platform that connects mentors and mentees from over 140 countries. Felix shares his unconventional journey from Singapore to Silicon Valley, detailing the challenges and triumphs he faced along the way. He discusses the inception of ADPList during the pandemic as a response to the need for mentorship and support in the design community. Felix emphasizes the importance of leadership principles, hiring A-players, and maintaining a strong community. He also delves into his competitive mindset, the future aspirations for ADPList, and the significance of building a supportive network through ambassador programs.https://adplist.org/https://adplist.substack.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/felixleezdChapters:00:00 Felix Lee's Journey: From Singapore to Startup Success09:10 The Power of Personal Branding on LinkedIn15:42 Guiding Principles for Building ADPList21:28 Hiring A-Players: The Key to Success29:41 The Impact of A-Players on Growth35:02 Can B-Players Become A-Players?40:33 The Role of Company Mission in Motivation49:50 Maintaining Mentor Engagement and Quality01:01:31 Ensuring Quality Among Mentors01:09:22 The Transformative Power of Mentorship01:19:36 Navigating Competition: A Contrarian Approach01:26:29 The Mentality of a Founder: Nature vs. Nurture01:37:26 Looking Ahead: Future Aspirations and Projects


