Latter-day Faith

Note: This two-part episode (Episode 166 is Part 2) is a departure from the usual focus of Latter-day Faith, which emphasizes teaching about and encouraging healthy faith development through introducing listeners to wise and powerful teachers in this area as well as to spiritual practices that can help us face our struggles with faith and church, families, communities, and with the world. In this podcast episode, Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon and his guest, Annika Rau, seek the same goals but take us into a dark area that will force us to wrestle with our ideas about God and prophets, presented in the context of "sexual grooming" and its relationship to the establishment of polygamy early in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Please take care of yourselves. This podcast might not be a safe listen for you, and if you determine that to be the case, do not listen! If you do choose to listen, please stop whenever you might need to. Be kind to yourself. Breathe deeply. Practice self-care at every moment. Bless you. ______ Sexual grooming is the use of various techniques that allow someone to isolate a child or another person for the purpose of gaining trust so the groomer can initiate sexual contact with them and to then instruct the victim to keep their sexual relationship a secret. Sexual grooming often involves family members, as well, with the groomer establishing a trusting relationship with them that makes it much less likely they will suspect sexual assault is occurring while also rendering them more likely to reject any story they might be told by the victim. The specific focus of this conversation is the relationship between sexual grooming of both the women he married and, very often, their family members and the establishment of polygamy early in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is vital for all of us to wrestle with the many difficulties involved in hurtful practices instituted and practiced by Joseph Smith, Jr., whom Latter-day Saints consider a prophet of God. We must also wrestle about what, if anything, did God have to do with this practice and the grooming of children/young women that was essential if it were to take hold. Religious and other charismatic leaders within other traditions as well as in politics have also used grooming techniques to further the fulfillment of their sexual desires. Grooming is an absolute evil and it is something we must learn to recognize should someone try to groom us or anyone we love or have direct concern for. Thus, a focus early in this episode is on grooming techniques themselves before turning to the grooming/polygamy question. How might we be able to view Joseph Smith as both a prophet and sexual abuser? Can we? Must we "cancel" him because of this fact of his life history so we can completely ignore every other one of his qualities and positive contributions to many lives, and, as a by-product, the rest of the world? Do we need to wrestle with our conception of God and God's character as most of us have at one time, or even now, taken it a face value that God might require sexual conquest of this type? This episode seeks to inform about grooming and the techniques Joseph and other early church leaders used in helping Joseph convince four of his youngest brides(under the age of 20) to "consent" to this practice, including sexual contact. It does not seek to influence anyone that such conduct is incompatible with claims to be a "prophet" (in whatever sense we might have seen him). It does seek to convince that God had nothing whatsoever to do with polygamy and the grooming it required but everything to do with offering love, comfort, hope, optimism, insight and every other grace to the children and women who found themselves in unwanted relationships. May our struggles with these things bring us into deeper relationship with God/the Universe/Love even if it means we must face very dark and sad facts.

This has been a tough week in Mormonism, with new rehearsals of old ideas entering the LDS universe that seem to portray God and we humans as less that loving and beautiful. In this environment, Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon shares his convictions, based on his own experiences, in an effort to encourage and celebrate everyone and the Love that is the animating force of the universe. God is Loving. We are all beautiful One portion of Dan's words speak to the sense he has that what we are seeing in terms of the intensity and increasing frequency of warnings of eternal judgments and the status of LGBTIA+ as needing correction is the continuation of the struggle between an old paradigm trying to remain dominant while a new one gains strength.

It is often difficult for Latter-day Saints to understand the distinction between Jesus and Christ as they are used in many other Christian traditions. They also struggle to understand how God can be considered a person if God doesn't have a distinct and tangible body. Mormons often speak of knowing that God knows each of us personally, but don't fathom how this could be true if God is considered Trinity. This episode, featuring Mark Crego and LDF host Dan Wotherspoon introduce how the concept of "Christ," understood by Trinitarians as naming how God is "incarnate" and "immanent" within all things, and how focusing on a definition like that might help LDS folk actually draw closer to God rather than more abstract and distant. Following up on a the notion of "abiding" they discussed in a July Latter-day Faith episode (number 158), they discuss here what it might mean to "abide in Christ." Both of them, who through study and personal spiritual practices which has led them to experience radically deep connection with Earth, the Universe, and all life, consider Joseph Smith's naming of that which is in, through, and around, all things, the "Light of Christ" (D&C 88:6-13), is appropriate, much more so than if he had chosen to label that which connects us with everything else, the "Light of Jesus Christ." How can we learn to think of Jesus, the individual, as someone who fully reflected the "Christ" immanence and energies, rather than focusing on his "only begotten" status and his specialness compared to us? Can we benefit from concentrating on him as an exemplar and guide and how it is through following the path and having the transformative experiences he had as a very important aspect of his being our "savior"? Listen in! You will like it, especially after the shock of thinking in this way wears off.

This episode features a wide ranging conversation between LDF host Dan Wotherspoon and his good friend and historian James Harris about the life and ministry of Elder James E. Talmage. Just before and then in the first few decades of the twentieth century (1862-1933), Elder Talmage served the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in myriad ways. He is among the earliest academics/scholars to come into the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (1911), but even before his time in the quorum he was kept busy leading what is now known as the University of Utah, head of its geology department, as well as being heavily consulted by LDS leaders on a myriad of topics. (All this while he was also married and raising a family, as well!) He is most widely known among church members for three books he produced at the request of the First Presidency: The Articles of Faith, Jesus the Christ, and The Great Apostasy, all of which have been very influential in the lives of Latter-day Saints and the narratives they tell about these subjects. What most don't know is much about the man himself--and that is where the expertise of James Harris comes in. From him, we get a nice overview of his schooling and church service that intersected with many interesting leaders and issues. But through story and reflection, Harris helps us get a better feel for the man. We lift him up here as a potential example for many who struggle to be their authentic selves within an organization that often doesn't feel welcoming to secular knowledge. His steadiness and ability to see things from large perspectives, even if some of his colleagues didn't, or in some cases vociferously disagreed with him, is worth considering There is much in this conversation that one might label, "sidetrips," as during the course of things, Dan and Jim reflect on wider issues and things they find helpful or interesting that were prompted by something in Elder Talmage's life. Listen in!

This episode features a terrific discussion between Erik Walters and LDS host Dan Wotherspoon on how we can mine for greater meaning and impact wonderful scriptural metaphors and symbols. Here they focus on Lehi's vision (and Nephi's additions) of the Tree of Life, Iron Rod, Great and Spacious Building, and more. Next they take upon the ubiquitous metaphor in today's LDS church of "the covenant path." And finally the metaphors of kingdoms of glory: celestial, terrestrial, and telestial. You will be struck by Eric's ability to bring new and invigorating life to these very familiar symbols that, too often, get fixed in place for Latter-day Saints by the common interpretations shared in the church. Once someone has heard the LDS explanation, she or he will often stop there, accept it, and not think too much more about it, especially how much richer these metaphors can become with just a little more effort. You will also be fascinated by Eric's faith journey, which includes beautiful revelations and speaks of how he found his way to what he is being called to. Listen in! You will be glad you did!

In this episode, Jana Riess and Kathryn Knight Sonntag join LDF host Dan Wotherspoon in talking about "worship." What is worship, or what does it mean to be in worship mode, and how do these differ from reverence, prayer, or gratitude? Do Latter-day Saint worship practices differ from those of other faith traditions? If so, in what ways? Have LDS forms of worship changed over the past 200 years? Why and how? How does worship affect the worshipper individually? The wider world? Join Jana, Kathryn, and Dan for this dynamic and, at times, personal discussion of their experiences in worship!

We often use shortcuts in our daily interactions with people, events, and actions, simplifying what is actually far more complex. We decide this or that ahead of time, and we let that guide what we will focus on. We often label people in a certain way based upon some previous experiences with them (or descriptions given by others) and never really give them a chance to emerge in front of us as whole, experiencing, wrestling (like us) others. We see them as caricatures more than individuals, and, of course, we know many others see us the same way. How might we learn to see and experience more in all our interactions--not only with people but also groups, movements, theories, and other powerful forces? In this episode, Latter-day Faith host Dan Wotherspoon goes solo (rather than in conversation with guests) to explore dynamics like these and how we might learn to better appreciate the full picture of all the things we encounter. The notion of "seeing with more of ourselves" is a paraphrase from a topic Cynthia Bourgealt has spoken and written about, which Dan extrapolates from and shares his own experiences in consciously trying to be more present with the "wholes" of things, drawing on input that often goes unnoticed by us as we go about our way, information that doesn't begin and end with just our cognitive faculties. He argues, following many many others who have embarked on contemplative paths, that we are part of a whole that interconnects with every particular things, whether its a person or things we find in nature. How can we allow this insight and energetic connection to be more present and poignant in each moment? What wonderful things unfold within us as we do so? Listen in!

The spiritual concept of "abiding" (in God and God in us) is quite rich. It means to "be here with," and its Greek origins and scriptural usage also suggest other meanings such as "remain," "continue," "endure," "be present with," and more. But even as much as we can understand the concept of through word study and through mental faculties, to really get what "abiding" means requires experience. We can talk about abiding in God and vice versa but we can only truly grasp it through direct participation. In this episode, Faith Journey Foundation board chair and theologian and student of scripture and language, Mark Crego, joins LDF host Dan Wotherspoon in a conversation about abiding, at times as a counter-point to the concept of "presiding." What leadership type would we respond best to? Their conversation also yields a great way to think about the phrase "endure to the end." Mark and Dan also get into certain LDS theological concepts about God's and our nature that in some ways make it easier to approach this topic than do some other Christian understandings of humanity and the Divine. It is a rich discussion. Listen in!

In this episode, we focus on ideas for building up spiritual communities that reflect unity, love, and acceptance. How might such become places in which everyone regardless of their theological positions, views about scripture or church strengths and weaknesses, or understandings and stances on today's big social issues can all worship and enjoy community together? We have help on this topic today from two guests from Christ Moravian Church in Calgary, Canada. The first is Jeff Pratt, who was raised a Latter-day Saint and continued to be one, along with his family, for many years before they sought and found a congregation that met their spiritual and community needs better than their Mormon ward and the wider LDS church. Our second guest is Stephen Gohdes, the wonderful and insightful pastor of the Christ Moravian church the Pratt family has become part of. In this conversation, we will hear about both of their stories to faith and how God has led each of them in their journeys, along with their insights about many things related to community flourishing. It's a terrific discussion on many levels. We know you will thoroughly enjoy learning from them!

It is Pride Month, and given the current and intense politicalization of the rights of transgender individuals, we are pleased to present here an encore of a conversation between Laurie Lee Hall and LDF host Dan Wotherspoon. Originally presented under the umbrella of how different people view God as gendered or not, Laurie Lee shares her experiences as a transgender woman and Latter-day Saint. She shares her story of presenting as a man for the first fifty years of her life, all the while feeling her spirit is female. During this time, she became an architect who worked for the LDS church for many years designing temples, meeting houses, and other church buildings. She was also married with children and served a full term as a stake president. She eventually knew that she could no longer live with her outside presentation being at odds with her true self and shared her truth with her family, general authorities, and those with whom she served in her stake. This led to many upheavals, including divorce, losing her job with the church, as well as her church membership. All along the way, Laurie Lee had very powerful experiences with God that she touches on here. She also shares the outline of her life and relationships today. This is a powerful episode--one that would be good to share with those who do not understand transgender experience. So many people follow along with the political attacks on these persons, as well using their religious beliefs as weapons and excuses for not truly trying to understand transgender individuals and the violence that is being done to these fellow children of God through their rhetoric and actions. Listen in!