Marriage After God

NOTE: We don't share any graphic detials in this episode but this is not an episode to listen to around children. To support this podcast please pick up one of our marriage books at https://shop.marriageaftergod.com In this episode, I share my history with an addiction to pornography and how it affected Jennifer. Jennifer And I both discuss how it made her feel and how it affected every aspect of our marriage but ultimately how the Lord freed me from this sin. Our prayer is that by being open and vulnerable about this sensitive and taboo subject that a light would be shown and that many other men and women would find freedom and healing. READ: [Aaron] Hey we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God, [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna share our personal journey with pornography in our marriage. Welcome to the Marriage After God Podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith everyday. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life. Love. And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. Thank you all for joining us this week on our podcast and we just wanted to invite you to leave us a review. This is just one way to help us get the word out about the Marriage After God podcast and let's other people find us and we really appreciate it, it just encourages our hearts. We love 'em. [Jennifer] So if you could just scroll to the bottom of the podcast app and leave us a review. [Aaron] Yeah a star rating is the easiest way to do it. All you have to do is hit a star, but if you have extra time we'd love a text review as well. [Jennifer] Thank you guys. [Aaron] Hey we wanna thank you for joining us and we also want to invite you if you've been enjoying the podcast to consider supporting our podcast. And the way that you do that is go to shop.marriageaftergod.com and pick up one of our books that we've written. The ones we wanna talk about today is our 31 Prayers for My Husband and 31 Prayers for My Wife bundle. We call it our prayer challenge and we encourage couples to do it. Thousands of couples have already gone through the challenge and they've loved it. They go through it multiple times actually a year so go to shop.marriageaftergod.com, pick up a copy of our 31 Marriage Prayers Challenge and that would support our podcast, thank you. [Jennifer] Okay moving right along, we are gonna jump into our icebreaker question, which is which one of you said I love you first? [Aaron] That's an easy one. [Jennifer] Give them a second to guess. You guys guess. Jennifer. Who is me. I couldn't wait any longer. [Aaron] Did I actually say I love you back? [Jennifer] So what happened was we were, I don't know if we were on a date or just hanging out but I remember I was getting out of your car-- [Aaron] I'm up in front of your house by your red mailbox. [Jennifer] No, actually Aaron has a terrible memory. [Aaron]Oh, it's not right there? -We were-- Where was this at? [Jennifer] It's okay honey. I'm not mad. We were in the church parking lot. Oh, oh. I was getting out of your black Honda, and I was getting into my car. And I got out, and I stood up-- I remember now. [Jennifer] And then I leaned back in, and I said, "Oh, by the way, I love you." 'Cause I was waiting, waiting-- Did I skid away, and the door slammed shut, or? [Jennifer] No, that didn't happen. But you did let a very long pause happen before you said anything, and it made me feel super awkward, and I said, I might have even said, "Okay, I'm gonna go now," or something like that, and then you were like, "I'm just kidding." You start laughing and you're like, "I love you too." Almost as if I had already known, but you never said it. [Aaron] Well, you did already know. [Jennifer] Yeah, I did. But it was-- That's really funny I made you wait. It felt good to have said it, and I'm glad I said it. I don't remember-- Yeah and we say it a lot now. Yeah, I do love you. And I won't make you wait. I'll tell you all day every day. [Jennifer] All day every day? [Aaron]Yeah. Oh good. So Jennifer said I love you first, and then I made her wait a few seconds-- [Jennifer] Super awkward. Super long seconds. And then you laughed, and then you said I love you back. [Aaron] Yeah. All right. So why don't we do a quick quote from a book. Okay. And this book is your book. [Jennifer] Yeah, we chose one from The Unveiled Wife, so it's not a typical quote that we've kind of been sharing with you guys. It's a little bit more personal. Okay this is found in The Unveiled Wife on page 153, and it says, "We were devoted to making ourselves "known to God and known to each other. "I finally felt free from the bondage "that was holding me captive. "I could breathe deeply without fear "of someone finding out who I was "because I had chosen to make myself known." [Aaron] And this was a part of our story where we were divulging to each other our deep dark secrets. Where we were sharing our sins, things we were struggling with. Actually, divulged everything. Talked about everything in our hearts. That was a pretty pivotal moment in our marriage. And that goes into what we're gonna be talking about, that's why we picked the quote because we're gonna be talking about that season of our marriage, we're gonna be talking about a pretty large season actually, of my life, and it has to do with pornography. [Jennifer] Yeah, which I actually, well we both didn't wanna do this episode. [Aaron] We've been putting it off for months. [Jennifer] Because I don't know why, it's just, I think it's one of those topics that's hard to dive into and expose, but like that quote said, I chose to make myself known, in our marriage, you've chose to make yourself known, and I've, I believe that that created a safe place for trust to be built, and I think it's really important for husbands and wives to hear our story and to hear, just to hear how we've exposed our hearts to each other, and hopefully they could do that too. [Aaron] And not only have we exposed it to each other, but we've exposed it to others. We've exposed the things that we've gone through, our dark secrets to other believers and through our platforms, there are ministries of the world. And one of the things that I love about how we are, you use the word expose, I love that word. The Bible tells us to drag that which is in the darkness into the light because that which is in the light becomes light. And that was our sin. The more it was hidden, the easier it was to keep doin' it. And so we've been draggin' it out ever since and keeping it out in public, keeping it out in the light so that it doesn't live in us. So I wanna start off by reading a scripture. And it's in Ephesians five verse three. It says, "But sexual immorality and all impurity "or covetousness must not even be named among you, "as is proper among saints." Paul's telling the Ephesians, you're saints, you're saints of the most high, and sexual morality and impurity and covetousness, they should not even be named among you. Meaning not even a little bit. In other translations it says there shouldn't be a hint of sexual morality. That's insane. Because in our current culture, in our current world, in my own life experience, I had not just a hint of sexual morality in my life, I was drenched in sexual morality. And Ephesians five verse three is very clear and it's, this isn't the only scripture that talks about this, that there shouldn't even be a hint of it among Christians. [Jennifer] Which is so weird because I mean, through our online platforms, we've shared about the topic of pornography before, and people even Christians, have shared their acceptance of it. And I think we're living in a culture, in an age where it's widely accepted even if people aren't talking about it. [Aaron] Yeah, we're desensitized to the grotesqueness of our sin. [Jennifer] Which is another reason why we knew we had to do this episode. We need to be willing to talk about it. [Aaron] Yeah, pretty much every time we've ever posted about pornography and how it's wrong, and shouldn't even be in a marriage, and how, and not that we're coming from perfection, we're coming from, well actually no, we've experienced this, it's wrong, and the Bible says we shouldn't do it, and God hates it. Christians, people claiming to be Christians in our comments will say, "Well, you're wrong actually, it's fine as long as." And then fill in the blank. And I'm like blown away. But we shouldn't be surprised by that 'cause the world's being, the world's gonna be deceived. So our heart today is to expose our story, and I hope my, our prayer we just prayed before this is that you listening, if this is your story, would begin to walk in freedom today. So that it, that sexual morality and impurity and covetousness might not even be named in your marriage. That there would be no hint of it. And so let's start, we're gonna start with my experience, and there's a bunch of questions I'm gonna answer and, but before we go to some of the questions I'm gonna answer about my experience with pornography and where it came from and how I walked in it and my story behind that, I just wanna read a letter I wrote to pornography in 2014. And it's on my blog, and it says this. "Dear pornography, "We have known each other since I was a child "and I feel as though I can tell you things "that I can never tell anyone else. "You know all my secrets and all my fantasies, "and you have been by my side "in the good times and in the bad. "You spent time with me when I was lonely or bored, "and you comforted me when I was angry or hurt. "It feels like you have always been there for me, "but I need to get a few things off my chest. "You promised me that after I got married, "I wouldn't need you anymore. "You made me believe that what we had was just a fling. "I realize now that you never loved me. "I am finally seeing your endgame. "You have stolen a piece of me like a master thief. "You wanted everything from me, not just my eyes, "but also my mind, heart, soul and strength. "You have promised a world to me that doesn't exist. "You have threatened my marriage and my children. "You have hurt my friends and family, "you have destroyed the lives of girls, boys, men and women "all over the world and used me to help. "All the while assuring me that no one would get hurt. "Our relationship has been nothing but lies. "You are not, nor have you ever been my friend. "You are the reason I have lived "with so much shame and embarrassment. "You are the reason my wife has been so hurt. "You have warped my perception of women in the world. "I needed to write you this letter "to let you know that it's over. "I would tell you in person, "but that would give you too much satisfaction. "I have found a true friend, his name is Jesus." I wrote this letter a long time ago and posted it. It resonated with a ton of people. It got 4,000 shares. And it was just me verbalizing out loud the relationship I had with pornography, so that I made it real. I was like oh, I don't wanna pretend like, oh, I'm just struggling and this that, like I actually verbalized what it was that I, how I related to it. [Jennifer] It actually makes me really sad just hearing you read it out loud, 'cause it makes it even more so feel like such an intimate thing, such an intimate relationship that you had with this thing, and I just, I, makes me heartbroken over the many people who are doing it, who are addicted to it, who have this kind of relationship with it. [Aaron] And it's true it's a lie. And it, in reality, it destroys us, it leads to death, and it destroys the people that, were, are being consumed by it, in the images. And it, do we care about those people? Do we care about ourselves, do we care about our families? And we need to consider those things. So I'm gonna be getting into some information about kind of where it started with me, and if you have questions as we go, Jennifer, you can ask me. How old was I when I was exposed first to pornography? I actually don't know. I feel like maybe seven, eight years old. I can't, I don't have a very good memory of my younger years. But I do remember one of the first experiences I had with it was I was walking home from school and I found a, it was like a playing card on the ground with a nude woman on it, and I remember keeping it. And I remember that being my first experience with it. I don't remember how I got connected on the internet with it, I don't remember how I've seen it on TV, but I've been exposed to pornography for many, many, many years. And not just exposed to it, but I've exposed myself to it and craved it, and sought after it since a very young age. And it went with me, I literally thought when I was younger that all I need to do is get married and it would fix my lustful cravings. 'Cause it, what they did was they, being exposed so young and right at that, puberty, when I'm already gonna be naturally more hormonal, and more testosterone, and all those things that come with puberty, I, it was heightened, extremely from a young age. And it just continued on until even, into marriage. [Jennifer] I actually remember before we got married, we did talk about that aspect of feeling like, 'cause you admitted to me that you struggled, pornography, and I also wrote it off as like well doesn't every guy do that? That was my perspective of it. And we both believed that it would be like a non-issue when we got married, that it would just go away. [Aaron] Right, so while we were dating, you had no red flags about it. [Jennifer] I mean, I hated it then and it hurt me then, but I figured marriage would be the solution. [Aaron] Well what you said was that you thought, well, I guess every guy struggles with that, and we'll just, when we get married we'll walk together and we'll figure it out, and it'll be fixed. And I actually believed that too, but I was so entrenched in it that I couldn't imagine men not struggling with it, and I think there was two reasons I did that. One, pretty much everything I heard from other believers, and pastors, and mentors was like, well yeah, everyone struggles with that and there's that book, Every Man's Battle, like we, that's the thing we've heard about this, so I just believed literally every man struggled with it and it was normal. Yeah, it was wrong, and we shouldn't do it, and I felt shameful, and I should be better at it, but I wasn't actually ever told by anyone that I didn't have to do it, that I wasn't slave to it, that as a believer I could walk in freedom from it, and that it was gonna destroy me. I don't remember hearing that ever. I remember how it made me feel. [Jennifer] How did it make you feel? [Aaron] Well,it made me feel gross. I hated that I couldn't stop it, probably like any addict. Like why do I keep doing this? Why can't I stop? I feel like I have no control. But then at the same time, I wanted it, I enjoyed it, I loved it, I couldn't say that out loud. When I would talk about it, it was always like, "I hate this, I don't wanna do this anymore." But internally, I really did love it, even though I didn't recognize that back then. And I can't remember ever having a real conversation about sexual purity. I remember being told I shouldn't have sex before marriage, I remember being talked about it a little bit, but I don't remember purity discussion. I remember being caught a few times with pornography and having a short discussion of how it's not good and we shouldn't do that, but I couldn't, I don't remember having these serious discussions of this can't happen. It is going to destroy you. You need to stop. I don't remember that. And it maybe did happen, but I don't remember it being, it wasn't memorable for me. It wasn't something that changed my direction from anyone, my parents, from pastors-- Youth pastors, yeah. [Aaron] Friends. In reality, even when I would try and, ways I would try and deal with it was just abstinence. Like, well I'm just gonna try and go, oh, I went a month. And I didn't mess up, was my term. I would have accountability partners. That's what we all do. But all my accountability partners also struggled with pornography and weren't changing. So all we would do was come together and commiserate and say, "Well, God's good, grace of God." Those kinds of things, but no one ever changed, no one ever had authority in my life to say like, "Hey, I'm walking in purity, you should too." I didn't, I actually didn't know anyone. I've never met someone back then that walked in purity, that didn't struggle with pornography, which gave me a very small world view actually. 'Cause I thought, I literally thought everyone struggled with it. And I'm sure there's people listening right now thinking like, "Well doesn't everyone?" No, everyone doesn't struggle with it. Many do, but it's a lie from Satan to believe that it's just the thing that everyone's gonna struggle with. [Jennifer] Well if we believe that everybody struggles with it, it just makes it more normal and then, like it's just-- Yeah, why change? [Jennifer] It's another justification for it, yeah. [Aaron] I would confess to God all the time, and just remember that God loves me, and remind myself. I would read scripture that would make me actually feel more shameful because I'd be like, "Wait a minute, why don't, why doesn't my life "line up with what the Bible says?" Like shouldn't it? Shouldn't, when I read this, oh, that's what a believer is. I would have to in round about ways work around what the Bible says to be who I was, as a quote unquote, Christian. Which is wrong, 'cause we're supposed to align our lives with what the Bible says not with how we feel, and then try and make the Bible fit into that, which is what I had to do because it, my life didn't line up with it at all. [Jennifer] So then we got married, and it didn't stop. [Aaron] No, it actually, I feel like at times, it got worse. [Jennifer] Well just to catch people up on our story, the first four years of our marriage, actually it's kind of humorous now that I think about it with your addiction, our biggest struggle was-- Sex. Sex. And-- Yeah, I remember telling God like, "God, just give me a wife, "I just wanna be able to have sex with my wife, "and I'll stop doing this." And then,gettin' married, and it's literally-- [Jennifer] The hardest thing possible. [Aaron] The thing that we can't do. [Jennifer] So I experienced excruciating pain every time we tried, and so for four years, our marriage just got tougher and tougher as far as our relationship because of this issue. And because we weren't coming together and being, experiencing that part of our relationship, you dove even further into-- I-- Pornography. [Aaron] Definitely used it as a excuse and a justification. 'Cause I thought to myself, like well I can't even have the one person I should be able to have, so, I got this over here. And it was wrong, completely wrong. But looking back, God absolutely used our struggle with sex to show the depravity in my own heart, and yours-- I was gonna say both of us. About lust, pornography, and these things-- [Jennifer] I'm like a lot of that is sin. Sexual, yeah lots of things. But He's, He was definitely saying like, "I don't want any of this." And He was willing to discipline us, and I believe that's what it was. I believe that that season of our life was discipline because He's like, "You're My children." And He says, "I discipline those who I love, "and I love you." And I, He was done with us walking our own way, and walking in that sort of sin, and, now I can't say like, we walked free from it, and then boom, we were healed. It was much more complex than that. But looking back, I know that's what God was doing in us. [Jennifer] So are you saying that we struggled with sexual intimacy because you struggled with pornography? [Aaron] I believe so, I believe that God was disciplining us, He was disciplining me. I told Him, the one thing I wanted was a wife I can have sex with, and He's like, "That's not gonna fix it." And it, and He, and I should be able to walk in freedom with Him, regardless if my marriage is perfect. I, it's not a justification, having a broken marriage, having a broken sex life, having these things that I think give me permission to break His heart, and His laws, and walk opposite of how He's called me to walk, when my greatest relationship should be with Him, which is what I've always said I have, like no, everything is about God, and I love God. And He's like, "Well," as Jesus says, "if you love Me, you'll keep My commands. "If you love Me," In 1 John, He says, "Those who practice righteousness "are righteous." And I wasn't practicing righteousness, I was, I had no integrity. When I was alone, I knew what I was gonna do, and you knew too. [Jennifer] I didn't trust you. [Aaron] No, I didn't trust myself. [Jennifer] I'd just go back to that point though, I wanna talk about trust, but I wanna go back to you saying that our, let's call it a drought, 'cause that's what it was, it was a sexual drought, and our marriage was correlated with this addiction to pornography, 'cause as much as I see that, I also know that it was layered because He used that time for so many other things, to reveal a lot to us. And I don't want that, I don't want them listening just to go, oh, that's kinda strange, but a cool little revelation, there was a lot more that-- [Aaron] Well of course, like God is infinite, and He orchestrated a lot of things in our life, for many purposes, to put us on this journey with this ministry, to make us, our unity and our oneness stronger, to use us in the lives of others, like lots of things to teach us things. [Jennifer] To teach us things, yeah. [Aaron] But it tells us that the, in the Bible that that our Father in Heaven disciplines His children. And if He didn't discipline us, we'd be illegitimate children. But because we're His children, He disciplines us. I just wanted to highlight that to show that we, in going through those things, that what our heart should be is to recognize what God's doing and that He loves us, and that He cares for us. It's that quota, He loves us the way we are, but loves us too much to leave us there, and so He changes us. And He draws us to Himself, and He makes us more like His son, Jesus. [Jennifer] He definitely used that time to do that in our life. [Aaron] Yeah. What for you, Jennifer, 'cause I brought this into my marriage, and I didn't know if you struggled with anything at the time, early in the marriage, but what did my addiction to pornography, how did it make you feel? How did you deal with it? What were some of the highlights, or lowlights, I should say-- [Jennifer] Yeah, I'm like, there were no highlights. [Aaron] From our, from that's part of our story? [Jennifer] Knowing that you struggled with this was painful, and I felt betrayed, as your wife. And there was a lot of deep hurt, a lot of pain, but what's interesting is also wrapped up in a lot of insecurity, and I felt like it was pointed back at me, as if I wasn't good enough for you. And so on top of the pain of betrayal and mistrust, there was also this layer of, "I'm not good enough for you and it's my fault." [Aaron] Right, like you're causing me to like, well, if I was prettier, or if could give him this-- [Jennifer] Or if my-- Part of my body. Yeah, if my body actually worked-- Yeah. [Jennifer] And we were experiencing an awesome sex life, maybe he wouldn't, maybe marriage would have fixed it. So then I felt at fault for it, and that was really painful. And so anytime that you confessed to me, or that the truth was exposed, I felt just as at fault for it. [Aaron] Yeah, and I remember you would say those sorts of things and I would try and like comfort you, and be like, "No, no, no, not at all, not at all." But what's unfortunate is I was only comforting you back then and trying to help you back then for the sake of my own shame. Like I didn't like that I made you feel that way, I didn't like that you responded that way, but instead of changing, I just tried to help you cope with it. Which is wrong of me, I wasn't a very good spiritual leader back then. [Jennifer] Well we didn't know back then, where I feel like spiritually, we were so immature that we didn't know how to navigate this right. [Aaron] We didn't have much close fellowship back then. We've talked about that in past episodes. Which would have helped us see it sooner probably, if we had people closer to us, knowing us. Not just people but spiritually mature people. People who would challenge this area of our life. But again, we have to expose it and we have to tell people how we're struggling if we want that kind of correction. Yeah, and we kind of-- Which most people don't. [Aaron] Kept it to ourselves. [Jennifer] So I also remember anytime that you would say, "Hey we have to talk," my heart would drop, 'cause I'd be waiting for the bomb, the truth bomb of like, "I have to confess again." And I hated that feeling, and my heart also ached with anxiety every time I left you at home alone because I just knew. [Aaron] You knew it was gonna come when you got back, yeah. [Jennifer] And when I did come home, and you told me you messed up, like you said you would say, it just affirmed my distrust in you. [Aaron] Were you ever surprised? No. Yeah, 'cause you knew I was gonna, which is such an unfortunate thing to make my wife only know that about me. That I'm not a trustworthy person, that I have no integrity, and she's gonna feel small, and insignificant because of something I'm choosing to do. And I think the reason, no I don't think, the reason we are getting real with this stuff, is because these are the things that aren't said to us. And so we can easily minimize what we're doing. I minimized it a lot with you. I would just be like, "Well it was only for a little bit here, "I, it was, like, it was nothing, it was not a big deal." And like, all I ever tried to do when I was apologizing to you was minimize the shame and the guilt that I saw in your face. And I deeply regret that part of our marriage, and the things that I walked in, that I didn't believe the truth that I've seen and read in the Bible that I thought that was for other people, not myself. I believed I was still trapped by it, even though I was a believer. I believed that I was still trapped in my sin. I believed that it had power over me that it didn't actually have. And I let it into our marriage. And in the Bible it tells us to keep the marriage very pure, and I didn't. And so I thank God that He showed me these things and He was patient with me because half the time, you feel like, "Man I'm surprised God just didn't strike me down." 'Cause like He's sovereign, He's a good God, but He's a just God, and man I justly deserved not what I've been given. The patience, and the reconciliation, and a wife who remained with me when you probably had a good reason and a good right to leave me, for breaking our vows so many times. Because the next truth we wanna make everyone listening realize is that pornography's not just, like oh, this little sin that I did over here, and like it's not a big deal, it's not attached to anything. The Bible tells us clear that sexual sin is special. It does something different to us because it's against our own bodies, and especially in marriage when you and your wife are one. [Jennifer] I was gonna say, it's against your oneness. [Aaron] It's against your body. It's against my wife, and this is the truth bomb, pornography is adultery. It's adultery. I was a cheater on my wife. I broke her trust time and time again. I broke faithfulness with her, and that's the reality, and if anyone's, that's listening right now is walking in this and is telling themselves, "Well, it's only every once in awhile. "It's not that big of a deal. "I can stop anytime." Whatever we, words we use, we are committing adultery on our spouse, and we are not practicing righteousness, and we are not walking in light as He is in the light. And those are truths that we need to say out loud, and we need to recognize them for what they are. [Jennifer] I just wanna be honest, this episode has been so hard for me, and I just feel like I, there's things that I wanna share, and then I get this lump in my throat, and my eyes start watering. We've had to stop three times just to pause so I can breathe. But pornography hurts. Pornography kills, and it kills oneness, and unity in marriage, it kills trust, it kills love, it kills-- [Aaron] Faith. [Jennifer] Faith, and-- [Aaron] It severs our relationship with the Father. [Jennifer] Yeah, it severs our relationship between husband and wife. Like our relationship was crumbling because of this. And I just, I feel so emotional I think, even sitting here listening again to our story because I know we're not the only ones who have been hurt by the pain of pornography. There are so many husbands and wives, maybe them listening right now, have walked this, or experiencing it, or maybe just last night, they had that hard conversation where they're in tears over it because they want it gone so badly, and it just keeps coming, and keeps coming, and keeps coming and it's gonna keep coming-- Or if they're about to have the conversation-- The enemy-- Today. The enemy hates marriage. The enemy hates what we're doing, and it's going to keep coming because he knows that it will destroy what we have. [Aaron] And I wanna, your words are powerful, but I wanna remind us that our words are powerful. And you keep saying "Pornography, it's coming, it's coming," as if it's something coming at us, and this is one of the lies I believed, that pornography was something happening to me. And when something happens to us, it's out of our control. Pornography was not happening to me. Yes, the same issue kept coming up and we had to keep dealing with it, but, and I'm not correcting you, Jennifer, but I want the people listening to not take anything we say and say, "See? "There it is, it's coming at me." [Jennifer] No, and when I said it's coming, I mean the enemy is dangling that temptation in front of us because he knows our flesh is weak. And we have to be willing to stand strong against it. [Aaron] And so if we think it's something happening to us, we'll never walk strong. It's something I believed. I believed it was a outward force that I had no control over. But it is not. 'Cause if that was the case, then no one's free. And the things that the Bible tells us are lies. Our encouragement to those listening is to believe the truth. Proclaim the truth, so confession, which is saying what's going on. Saying what you're doing. What you are choosing to do, which is the key. Not coming like, "Oh, it happened again. "Oh, I messed up again. "Oh, "I slipped and fell into this thing again now." Confessing that you chose again to cheat on your spouse, that you chose again to walk in unfaithfulness with your God. That's true confession. And then repentance is to turn the other way. I am no longer gonna choose to walk in that. Because if it's something that we accidentally fall into, if it's something that happens to us, then there is no need to repent because you don't know if you're gonna slip. You're walking on this journey, and you're just gonna fall into the pit by accident, and that's just your destiny. But that's actually not true because that goes against everything Jesus came to do on the cross. He came to set us free from the bonds of sin and death. And the same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the same power that will bring life to our mortal bodies. That's what the Bible tells us. And in a little bit, we're gonna get through more scripture just so you listening can hear the truth about this. And I wanna bring up something, you said, Jennifer, that pornography hurts us, and it destroys us, and I wanna highlight one more truth, it was something that I never realized until I started walking in purity. And God was revealing to me who I was, and the things I was doing, is that pornography doesn't just hurt us, the ones consuming the pornography. We are literally condoning and cheering on, and paying for things that we would never condone, or cheer on, or pay for a Christian to do. And a lot of these men, women, whoever's in these videos or photos, many of them are forced into it. And even the ones that choose it, were literally saying, "Yeah, keep doin' that. "Keep doin' that." We're choosing to hold hands with someone to Hell, by the thing we are consuming. And if Christians would realize that, if I would have realized that earlier, would I have stopped? Maybe. If I woulda realized like, man, I'm actually like, partaking, participating in someone's journey, to a journey away from God. And it's easy for us to think like, well they're just things, it's just a video. Well no, those are people in those videos. Real people that are made in God's image. And I just hope that this is hitting home with those listening, I hope that people are hearing our hearts of concern and love, and are also being, having their eyes opened, and their hearts opened, and that true Godly repentance would come from this. [Jennifer] So I remember there was two pivotal moments in our marriage, that stand out to me. I think you'll know what I'm talking about, but they are pivotal because they helped you change in this area. And so I wanna share 'em so that those listening can be inspired by it and hopefully it, this, hopefully this moment right here becomes a pivotal moment for them. [Aaron] Amen, yeah. [Jennifer] So I remember it was just after we had Elliot, he was just a little baby, and I was sitting in a rocking chair midday, trying to rock him. And you were sitting at the desk in our bedroom, and you started telling me and confessing how you had-- -Again. [Jennifer] Messed up again. And normally, I mean, list an emotion, and I've expressed it. Tears, uncontrollably, like just all of it. Sadness-- All rightfully so, 'cause of what I've done to you. [Jennifer] But this time, I just sat pretty much gripping Elliot's little body, and patting his back, and my heart was just so burdened for you. And I remember-- It was actually your first time thinking about me in that way, because of what I was going through. [Jennifer] Yeah, yeah, like if tables were turned, yeah, putting myself in your shoes, but I just, I questioned you on your faithfulness to me. Because on the outside, we were Christians moving forward in our marriage and at this point, we actually had already been reconciled and determined to stay together. And you messed up again, and I questioned you on your faithfulness and I reminded you what scripture says about it being adultery, and I know you have already mentioned that today, but I remember just reminding you in this, in that moment that you were committing adultery against me. And I questioned how you would want our future to go, I questioned how you would want our son's future to go. [Aaron] I remember all this. You asked me if I actually feared God. You asked me if I actually loved God. You were challenging me at the core of what I was doing. Not just this one event, oh, I forgive you for the event, you told me like, you need to realize what you are doing Aaron. And I remember it was like, shocking. It was like oh my gosh. This is different first of all, 'cause usually I'm like looking forward to you, not looking forward to it, but I'm expecting an outburst, a reprimand-- A reprimand, yeah. [Aaron] "What, you did it again? "Don't you know how this makes me feel?" But you went from, you actually loved me, selflessly, 'cause even though you were totally hurt, you instead told me the truth in love. You said, "Aaron, you are committing adultery." And I think that was actually the first time I, we recognized that's what I was doing. I'm laughing 'cause I'm embarrassed. That was a pivotal moment, and that began actually, over the next few years, me walking in-- [Jennifer] The start of the true change. [Aaron] Like it, I did still have-- [Jennifer] A weakness. [Aaron] I still fell back into it, I don't wanna say fell back in it, I still chose it, but it was, it became much less, and much less, and then what the next event that happened was the straw that broke the camel's back. Like the, the like it was the thing like, so you opened my eyes to like, "Man, I have to change. "This is not okay what I'm doing." And then this next moment, I'm sitting in my car with our pastor and mentor, and he's, and we just had dinner and we were hangin' out, and he said, "Aaron, are you walkin' in purity?" And I said, "Well, no, recently I did this." 'Cause I wanna be honest, that I'm tryin' to walk in repentance and openness and light. And he says, "Well Aaron," he's like, "nothing's gonna change "until you believe the truth." He's like, "You need to believe the truth." And I said, "Well, what do you mean?" Because the way I talked was, oh, it happened to me again, I fell into, I stumbled into, oh, woe is me, like as if something was happening to me, so, 'cause I was still not thinking clearly about this even though you challenged me correctly. I still wasn't thinking clearly. And he said, "You are not a slave "to your addiction to pornography. "Pornography is not something that has control over you." Which I didn't believe when he was saying it, 'cause I believed it controlled me. And then he said, "And also, Aaron, "you need to admit and confess that you love your sin." He said, "You need to say it because you do." And I said, "I don't love it." And he's like, "Well, your actions are proving different. "You say with your mouth that you don't, "and then you say with your actions that you do." And it went right into my heart. And it was the first time in my life that I was able to say with my mouth out loud, that I actually loved pornography. And what that meant was is I actually was able to fully confess, 'cause before I was confessing about the fruit of my sin, not confessing the sin that I loved my lust. [Jennifer] Which if people are wondering, my response is I hate hearing it, I hate knowing it, I hate, I hate all of that, but I think it's necessary in order to overcome-- [Aaron] Well, a true confession is necessary, I had to be able to admit the truth, 'cause I was walking in lies. And the lies were keeping me in the darkness, and the lies were keeping me trapped, when the trap was my lies, it was, there was no trap. There was no chains, 'cause God broke those chains on the cross. And he's like, "You need to recognize that, "that that is the truth. "You have not stopped sinning because you love your sin." And so I, once he said it out loud and once I said it out loud, I realized, wait a minute, I don't want to love my sin. And so I confessed, "Lord, forgive me for my love of my sin, "and change me." And that was the last time. I think there was one other little time after that, that was, and I'm not trying to minimize, significantly different kind of sinning, but in the same area. And I confessed that out loud to Matt, and to you, and that was it. And it's been how many years now? [Jennifer] Five. [Aaron] Five. But those are the pivotal conversations, was you telling me the truth in love, and then another brother telling me the truth in love. Not, "Aw, sorry, yeah we all, we're all gonna struggle. "Let's just get back up, "and let's just try harder next time." But that's not, that is not what God's asking us to do. He's not asking us to try harder, He's asking us to walk in the truth. And the truth is, let's read some of these verses. The truth is, Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free; "stand firm therefore, "and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery." And that's what I was doing, I kept submitting to a yoke of slavery that didn't exist. I was allowing a yoke to be put on me that didn't need to be there. So I'm free. That's what Christ came for, freedom. Would you read Romans 6:6? [Jennifer] "We know that our old self "was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin "might be brought to nothing, "so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin." [Aaron] Oh, so it's not that I have to try harder, I am not enslaved to sin. So I need to walk in the actual truth-- [Jennifer] Which is 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. "The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." [Aaron] So am I walking in this old self while pretending to be a new self? [Jennifer] Talk about a marriage fixing things. [Aaron] Yeah, and the marriage doesn't fix it, Christ has already fixed it. [Jennifer] No, the marriage of Christ, the being one. Oh, yeah, we're being one with the body of Christ, we're His bride, and it says that He's gonna come back to a pure white, and without blemish bride. That's who, that's what I'm a part of, that's who I am. That's who you are listening. [Jennifer] Yeah, how dare Him come back to a bride that's been-- [Aaron]Dancing in the mud, with her dress. [Jennifer] Sad. [Aaron] So those listening, your old self has been crucified. It's been crucified. Christ set us free on the cross. Ephesians 4:17 through 24, "Now this I say and testify in the Lord, "that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, "in the futility of their minds. "They are darkened in their understanding, "and alienated from the life of God "because of the ignorance that is in them," that was my life, I was walking as, He's telling Christians to not walk as Gentiles were, I was walking that way in my ignorance. "Alienated from the life of God "because of the ignorance that is in them, "due to their hardness of hearts. "They have become callous "and have given themselves up to sensuality, "greedy to practice every kind of impurity. "But this is not the way you learned Christ, "assuming that you have heard about him "and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, "to put off your old self," Aaron, put off your old self. "Which belongs to your former manner of life "and is corrupt through deceitful desires," I, that's crazy that it uses the word deceitful desires. They trick us, they're desires that are deceitful. "And to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, "and to put on the new self, "created after the likeness of God "in true righteousness and holiness." So my trying harder is actually just putting on the new self. Christ's likeness. 1 John 2:1, "My little children, "I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. "But if anyone does sin, "we have an advocate with the Father, "Jesus Christ the righteous." What's awesome about that is when we're walking in righteousness, and we stumble because we've chosen to, or we haven't, we weren't walking in the, we weren't walking in the Spirit, but we were walking in the flesh, we have an advocate. But the things that we're reading right now have been written so that we won't sin. So that we will actually walk in the truth. 1 John 2:28 and 29, "And now, little children, "abide in him, so that when he appears "we may have confidence and not shrink from him "in shame at his coming. "If you know that he is righteous, "you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness "has been born of him." I love that it says practice first of all, 'cause that that means is that we are not yet righteous, but we are becoming righteous. And as we practice it, we get better at it. So am I practicing my sinful desires and getting better at those things, or am I practicing righteousness and getting worse at my sinful desires? And that was, that's my life now, is I'm getting worse at my sinful desires and I'm actually getting better at avoiding temptation, and knowing what temptation is, and being strong under the temptation, and fleeing from the temptation, and talking about the temptation. And now encouraging others to do the same. [Jennifer] So actually I was gonna mention that, how you walk in authority now and challenge other believers, and I can be confident that you're gonna walk our children through these things, that you can teach them, and I don't know, I just, I love that you have this authority that you can say, "I've overcome this, you can too." [Aaron] Which is amazing, because when we see other people overcome something, it makes it that much more believable that we can. And so you're listening to this, and if you're thinking, "Man, I can't do that." Stop believing the lies, you have been set free by Christ. You have the power of the Holy Spirit in you. You've been given everything that pertains to life and Godliness, just like I have. I'm not special, I haven't been giving, given something that you haven't been given, Jennifer hasn't been given something that you haven't been given. We have Christ in us. We have, we could put on the new self, created after the likeness of God. [Jennifer] Something that we mention in our book coming out, Marriage After God, is that Jesus didn't come back to kind of save you, He came back to save you. [Aaron] He came back to fully save us, today, when Jesus teaches the disciples how to pray, He says, "Thy will be done on Earth, "as it is in Heaven." Which is cool because we can actually have His will on Earth, in our life. Now we haven't, our bodies are still gonna decay and we're gonna still see death, and these bodies are gonna fall apart because they're not yet redeemed. But you know what is fully redeemed? Our spirit. And He's renewing us day by day, and He's giving us a new mind, and new spirit, and He's, and through His word, and through walking in community, and through being, walking in light and truth, we can actually walk the way God has enabled us to walk. It tells us in Malachi, that He will write His laws on our hearts, on tablets of flesh. They're no longer on stones that can be broken, they're on hearts of flesh. His laws are written on our hearts, and not only has He showed us in our hearts how we can, how we should walk, but He's empowered us to do so through the power of His son and His spirit. I don't know, I hope that was vulnerable enough, and again, our prayer is that those listening, you, would not be freed from this addiction, and this struggle with sin, and pornography, but that you would recognize that you are free, and that you do not have to choose to be submitted to it. You don't have to choose it. You can choose actually to walk away, you could choose actually to turn the computer off, you can choose actually to put your phone down, you can choose to run away as fast as you can. We can choose that, and we are empowered to do so through the Holy Spirit. [Jennifer] So if this episode encourages them to go have a conversation, and there's confession and reconciliation, do you wanna share some things that we've learned over time that could help them? [Aaron] Yeah, I will say on my part, or for those that are going to do the confessing, and we talked about confession in one of our episodes, and they should go back and listen to that actually, don't minimize, meaning, well, it was just this, it wasn't as big as deal you think, it was only for a moment. Just say I did this. And then the second thing I would always try and do that I shouldn't do, was I tried to control your reaction. Please don't be mad, I know that I was wrong, please don't be sad, please don't be frustrated-- Or why are you crying. [Aaron] Or why are you crying. And so I, when I started walking in purity, I purposed that if I was gonna confess to you, I was just going to tell you what I did, when I did it, and then I was gonna be quiet. [Jennifer] And so on my part, I mean, as the person receiving the confession, something that I've learned is, well the first thing is, God created us with a lot of different range of emotions, but He created us with emotions. And so the first thing is acknowledging that you feel, and the second one is you're still called to have self-control in those feelings. And-- And you're allowed to have the feelings. And you're allowed to have those feelings, so you may cry, you may get angry, you may get all of the things, but you still are required to have self-control in them, and that doesn't mean that you just shut it off and you don't express those emotions, it just means that you don't sin in your emotions. And so I just wanted to share that as the counterpart to what you-- [Aaron] And on the person receiving the confession, the other spouse, your job is to not just love your spouse, but to speak truth in love. Like you did that day. You very calmly and lovingly said, "You are walking a very dangerous line. "You are committing adultery, "and you are harming our marriage, "and what you're doing will destroy us. "And you must change." [Jennifer] And then the biggest thing after all of that, is reconciliation. It should always be for the purpose of reconciliation and we hope that it's for reconciliation in your guy's marriages. [Aaron] And reconciliation can happen even though trust is still broken. Because the reconciliation is knowing that hey, we are still one, but we are going to work on this trust thing. Because you have hurt me and we're gonna walk it out together, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna avoid being healed, but it's going to take time and that's gotta be okay. Because it's not like a switch that gets flipped. There's been unfaithfulness, there's been brokenness, there's been sin, and there's consequences to that sin. But as a team, you walk towards healing and restoration, on both parties, and you do that by prayer, you do that by fasting, you do that by walking faithfully-- [Jennifer] And abiding in the word of God. [Aaron] And abiding in the word of God, and you also do that in community. You don't do it alone. If you're a brother dealing with this, you find other brothers that are gonna say, "Dude, stop it." That have authority in your life because they walk in purity also. If you're the wife, you find girls that are gonna be like, "You can't do this. "You need to walk in purity." And the goal is oneness, unity, healing, righteousness, holiness for the purpose that we always go back to is that God has a job for our marriages. He's got a ministry for us to do, and we will not be able to do it if we're stuck in sin. [Jennifer] Yeah, we need to be pure, and we need to present His bride, pure. [Aaron] And that's what we get to do, we get to purify ourselves, we get to practice righteousness, and we get to chase after God every day, and I just pray that this brings freedom today. I pray that hundreds, thousands of couples today would find not just healing, but realize the freedom that they have. And that they would be the ones that people look at and say, "I didn't know you could walk in freedom like that." And then they'll say, "Actually, this is what the Bible says." And they'll be able to help other Christians walk that way as well. [Jennifer] What an incredible ripple effect for the body of Christ. Oh yeah. [Jennifer] Well thank you guys so much for joining us on this episode. It was, it was vulnerable, and I appreciate you sharing, Aaron. And I can see that there's probably gonna be a lot of questions, probably come up from this. Probably. [Jennifer] And we might have to do another episode, but that's okay. But we do wanna invite you guys to pray with us, and close out the episode with this prayer from Aaron. [Aaron] Dear Lord, thank You for Your loving patience and kindness towards us. Thank You for Your mercy and forgiveness. Lord, I pray as Christian men and women we would practice walking in righteousness. I pray we would pursue purity, as You are pure. I pray that as Christian men and women who proclaim You to be Lord in our life, that we would not walk in this sin anymore. Change us, transform us, and cut out any dead flesh and wicked way that is in us. Help us to fear You and love You. Help us to see the truth about pornography, that it is destructive, sinful, immoral, and that it is adultery. Your word tells us that there should not even be a hint of sexual morality named among us as Christians. Help us to live with integrity, help us to be transparent and honest in marriage, help us to choose reconciliation over isolation in marriage. We are Your saints, and I pray we would walk in a manner worthy of Your call in our lives. In Jesus name, Amen. Thanks for joining us this week, and we look forward to what the Lord's gonna do in your life. And the testimonies that are gonna come from the truth that people heard today. [Jennifer] We'll see ya next week. [Aaron] Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. 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Support the Marriage After God podcast by checking out our online store and resources. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com “If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else.” ― Dave Ramsey 1 Corinthians 10:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. How do you view debt that one person brought into the marriage as “ours” especially when the two of you are on different pages about spending before the debt is paid off? What do you recommend in terms of building multiple streams of income? Publish a book - https://bookworthy.com Start a small business based off skills or resources you and your husband have Photography Painting We know many people who have made a decent income off youngliving. How do you both feel about taking risks financially? Such as investing in something that might cost a lot but also make money in the future. Luke 14:28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? James 4:13-17 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. Do you make a college fund for your children? If so how much do you add to it each month? How do you feel about mortgages? We are debt-free but live in NYC and seems you can’t own a home without a mortgage. Is that still debt-free? How do we not touch savings? How to tithe when financially struggling? What is your take on separate bank accounts in marriage? The bible speaks very specifically to this question Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31 The 2 shall become one. When budgeting do you allow for a savings amount for birthday gifts food ect or does it all come out of general? What percentage of the budget should be allowed for food? Assuming all food or going out? How much is a realistic amount to save each week? My husband and I are in so much debt. We don’t know how to budget. Any advice? We want to be debt-free and not living paycheck to paycheck. We have 3 boys. How should we decide what they can and can’t do because of the budget? they love sports must ect. What do you do for health ins we are self-employed would love to hear what you do. How do you navigate financial stress as a team? What do you guys use for a budget? How do you budget with kids, one income, and a stay at home mom? I want to be a stay at home mom but we are not sure we can afford it. What should we do? Do you have any advice on seeing if you are ready to go to a one income household? How do you prepare to go to one income with a second baby? Dear Lord, Thank You for everything You give to us. Thank You for our finances and thank You for our jobs so that we can provide for our families so that we can give back to You, and be generous with others. We pray we would be good stewards of all that You give to us, especially money. We pray we would be faithful to use our money the way You want us to. Help us to be united in our marriage in the way we spend, save, and give. Help us to make financial decisions with wisdom and with wise counsel. Please help us to live debt-free and may our lives be a testimony to others of Your faithfulness. May we be people who seek to use our finances to build your Kingdom! In Jesus’ name, amen! READ: [Aaron] Hey, Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna answer your questions about finances. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years, through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage and encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life, [Aaron] Love. [Jennifer] And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. [Aaron] First and foremost, we always want to invite you to leave a star rating on the podcast. It helps other people find the podcast, it helps people learn about the podcast, it gets us in the rankings so other people can find it, it's awesome. We'd appreciate if you could just scroll down to the bottom of the podcast app and hit a five-star rating, or actually whatever star rating you want to. And if you have time, you can leave us a text review. That'd be awesome. We read those, they encourage us, and we'd really appreciate that. [Jennifer] We also want you guys to know that this Marriage After God podcast is sponsored by our store, shop.marriageaftergod.com, and just to highlight one book bundle that we carry that we wrote for you guys is 31 Prayers for my Son and 31 Prayers for my Daughter, and we wrote these for you to help encourage your prayer life over your children, and we're really excited about these books and we wanted you to know about them. [Aaron] For the icebreaker question, Jennifer, what is one thing you would do today to get out of debt if we had debt? Because we're debt-free, but if we had debt today, what's thing you'd do right now to help us get out of debt? [Jennifer] Okay. I think the first thing that comes to my mind is I see a small piece of paper and I just write a number on it, let's say $100, and then I would take that day to go around the house and figure out what can I sell today, whether it's through Facebook Marketplace or through my friends, text messages, or whatever. What can I get rid of today to make that $100 and then send it straight to the debt? [Aaron] Okay, I like that. I'll one up you. I was thinking selling everything in the house. [Jennifer] You would. [Aaron] Well, because we have a lot of things and we don't realize how much money is just sitting in the house with your furniture, and through, I wouldn't be able to sell everything like our bed, but-- [Jennifer] No, you said everything. [Aaron] Well, okay. We could sleep on the floor, people sleep on the floor. [Jennifer] Aaron would sell everything. I on the other hand would just get rid of stuff we don't use. [Aaron] Well that's how we were when we were in debt, babe. [Jennifer] We had little. [Aaron] We had very little, but we did sell almost everything we had. I think that's what I would do. I would actually go through the house and I'd say "Okay, what can we get rid of?" And I'd probably, Dave Ramsey says it funny, he says, he says "Sell everything," and so that your kids wonder if they're next. [Jennifer] Oh my gosh, that's terrible. [Aaron] That drastic. Go through everything and get rid of everything. [Jennifer] Speaking of Dave Ramsey, we have a quote of the day by him. [Aaron] Yeah, it's if you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else. [Jennifer] So you're living like no one else. That sounds like a Marriage After God right there. [Aaron] Yeah, it's true. It also reminds me of another quote that says if you want something you've never had, you gotta do something you've never done. I believe it's by Thomas Jefferson, but other people say they don't know who it's by. But the idea is that if you make choices today that no one else is making, everyone chooses to be in debt, everyone chooses to spend money unwisely and just buy things and to use credit cards. Those are normal, everyone chooses that. But if we choose to live differently, [Jennifer] Radically. [Aaron] If we make choices like, well, this hurts and it's painful, but no one's doing this, what it does is it affords you a life that later on you can live like no one else is living. You make choices today that allow you to live a certain way later. [Jennifer] And I feel like that later comes so fast, just in the scheme of life. [Aaron] Life does fly by fast. [Jennifer] It might seem hard now, right, but this season is so short in comparison to the rest of later. [Aaron] Yeah, we have, I remember our season getting out of debt. In the middle of it, it was so daunting. [Jennifer] It seemed like a long, drawn-out thing. [Aaron] And it was like, this is never gonna get done. [Jennifer] But it wasn't. [Aaron] But now it's been behind us, what? [Jennifer] Eight, nine, ten years. [Aaron] Ten years. That was a long time ago. We've been debt-free for ten years now. [Jennifer] And we're living in the later. [Aaron] We're living in the later, so yeah, we get to live like no one else now because we made choices that no one else was making back then. And I remember people thinking we were weird. We didn't have much. We had actually nothing. But I wouldn't trade it. [Jennifer] Yeah, I don't regret being debt-free. [Aaron] We encourage other people all the time. We're gonna do it a lot in this episode actually. [Jennifer] Yeah, so speaking of this episode, we thought it would be fun to answer your guys' questions on finance. We pulled on Instagram Live and just asked you what kind of questions you guys had about money and budgeting and all kinds of things, so today's episode we are going to focus on your questions and trying to answer them. [Aaron] Yeah, so each one of these questions is from someone who follows us. And we're gonna, we don't have all the answers. [Jennifer] Nope. [Aaron] We will answer the best as we can, we'll answer with scripture if we can, we will answer from experience, and we might say we don't know on some of them. Because I'd rather say I don't know than make up an answer that is false. [Jennifer] Yeah, and just right off the bat if we want to give some resources that you guys can look up for more information about finances, we do really like Dave Ramsey and just his whole ministry on helping people get out of debt, [Aaron] He's helped a lot of people get out of debt. [Jennifer] Lead faithful lives in finances, so check him out, Financial Peace University is his thing. Also, Money Saving Mom is a great resource. She has a lot of good stuff, go check her out. [Aaron] Let's start this episode. I want to read some scripture to give us a foundation of why we should even care about our finances, our money, getting out of debt, all of those things. And it's found in 1 Corinthians 10, verses 24 through 27. "Do you not know that in a race, "all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? "So run that you may obtain it. "Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. "They do it to receive a perishable wreath. "But we, an imperishable. "So I do not run aimlessly. "I do not box as one beating the air, "but I discipline my body and keep it under control "lest after preaching to others "I myself should be disqualified." And what I love about this is Paul's saying, he's saying the race we're running is this race of faith, it's the race that we're running toward heaven and with God and with the Holy Spirit, and our prize is imperishable. We're not running to get a trophy, we're running for an imperishable prize which is eternity with God. And Paul says here, he says "I don't run aimlessly," meaning he's got a specific goal, he trains a certain way, he's thoughtful about it and he knows what he's doing. And then he says "I discipline my body "and keep it under control," and again, the purpose of this is so that in our preaching, we're not disqualified. The reason we talked about finances and getting out of debt and why these are important for the Christian to be aware of and to walk not aimlessly in is because we have a job to do in this world, and it's to preach the Gospel. And part of preaching the Gospel and not being disqualified is are we an example? Do we have self-control in all things? [Jennifer] Yeah, including finances. [Aaron] Including finances. Or are we taken under by our own debt and our own cravings and desires and "Oh, I want that new car or I want that, "or I want to eat out all the time," or whatever it is that sucks the money out of us and makes us incapacitated financially. Paul wants us to know that we shouldn't be running aimlessly so we should have a plan, we should have a goal, we should have purpose in mind, and he wants to remind us that the Gospel that we're preaching, we ourselves don't want to be disqualified after we've preached it, so we need to be disciplined and self-disciplined and self-controlled. I just that'd be a good place to start. [Jennifer] Yeah, I love it, it's really good, yeah. [Aaron] With this. It's actually why we got out of debt. It's part of our story. We left doing missions work. We're doing the Lord's work, we felt the Lord calling us home and saying "I want you debt-free so you can be free," and we went home. [Jennifer] But we had a goal. [Aaron] Yeah, we went home specifically to get out of debt, so everything we did was focused around getting out of debt. [Jennifer] And I felt like that word aimlessly really stands out to me, because I feel like, because I feel like it's really easy when you look at finances to almost avoid the hardship of finances or the things that weight us down, the stress that's involved, [Aaron] Yeah, pretend it's not there. [Jennifer] To pretend it's not there or to ignore it, which leads to being aimless. If you're not willing to face it and confront it, then the other option is to be aimless. [Aaron] Yeah, well there's no goal, you're floating, you're like "Well, I'm gonna," [Jennifer] Because if you have a goal, then you're gonna be forced to look at what you have and say "Okay, this is how I get from point A to point B." [Aaron] Yep, and we have to write those goals down too. We've just been talking about lists lately. And if you write it down, it becomes real. Just a quick tip, write down your goals, how much you want to pay off, when, when do you plan on getting out of debt, and then start hitting those goals and doing everything you can to hit them. [Jennifer] And even if you have a specific strategy and you guys figure out how you're gonna do it, write that down too. [Aaron] Yep. Okay, let's go right into question number one. [Jennifer] Okay, is there any rhyme or reason with any of these? [Aaron] No, it looks like you just put them in order from what you received them. [Jennifer] Okay, let's do it. [Aaron] How do you view debt that one person brought into the marriage as ours, especially when the two of you are on different pages about spending before the debt is paid off? [Jennifer] Oh man, I feel like we answered this really good in our book, Marriage After God, because we share our different perspectives of money and the value it had in our lives, how we spent it, and this idea of debt. [Aaron] This was us. Whose debt did we have when we got married? [Jennifer] Well, I believed it was yours. It had your name written on it. But God had to teach me the lesson of what it meant to be ours. [Aaron] Yeah, and you married me, debt and all. You married me, sin and all. And we don't get to marry someone but only choose the parts of them that we're going to walk with and be one with. Now, when we have sin, those are things that need to be changed and repented of. Even the debt needs to be dealt with. There's things that need to be dealt with, but we deal with it together. [Jennifer] Yeah, so to answer this question how do you view debt that one person brought in? View it as ours, so assume that responsibility as now ours, both of you working to do it, because I'll tell you what, it wasn't until God changed my heart and I received Him changing my heart on it being our debt that we actually were able to make change in knocking it off. [Aaron] Think about it, if you would have expected me just to deal with it, while you're spending how you want. It was our money, right? [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] But then if you spend it how you want, it would have made it that much harder for me to deal with it. [Jennifer] Yeah, you probably wouldn't have been able to get out of debt. [Aaron] I would say yeah, ours, and then it says if we're on different pages of spending, [Jennifer] Get on the same page. [Aaron] The reason you're in debt and having a hard time paying debt off is because you're on different pages about finances. [Jennifer] Yeah, get on the same page. That means that both of you are gonna have to make sacrifices to stay on that same page when it comes to spending, saving, paying off debt, all of it. [Aaron] Yeah, and a quick tip, make a rule. We made a rule, if there was anything over $25, we had to immediately bring it to, but when we were getting out of debt, we actually talked about everything that we spent. [Jennifer] Yeah, everything went to that. [Aaron] But now, we have rules about if it's gonna cost so much, we actually ask permission. What happens though is it keeps us both accountable to what we're spending, that it's not just like "Oh, I accidentally spent $600, sorry," that doesn't happen. [Jennifer] Okay, I think we answered that one pretty good. Number two, what do you recommend in terms of building multiple streams of income? [Aaron] This is a cool question. [Jennifer] I also feel like in this day and age I feel like there is a lot of opportunity. [Aaron] Oh, we have infinite opportunities. People make money just on social media by not even selling anything, they just they post for other people and they make money. [Jennifer] Why do you think it's a cool question? [Aaron] Well because we did this. The way we got out of debt was we started a photography business. [Jennifer] Yeah, we used our resources of what we had, which was a camera. [Aaron] We used our passion for photography and we had resources in relationships. We knew someone getting married and we were like "Hey, can we shoot your wedding?" And they said "Sure," they needed a photographer, they didn't have much money. Actually, we did that for free, they bought us a flash or something. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think the very first wedding we shot, we shot together for a flash, which she had to buy for us before the wedding. [Aaron] Yeah, and then I think we charged like $400, and I think it was like $600, and then it was like 850. [Jennifer] Each job that we got, we just, yeah, increased. [Aaron] Well we made a rule. We're like "Every job, we're gonna increase a little bit." Until eventually we were making $1,200, $1,500 a wedding, and we were working Saturdays and Sundays, shooting families and weddings while working full-time jobs during the week. [Jennifer] It was crazy town. [Aaron] Now I want to say we had no kids back then. [Jennifer] Yeah, so we were able to. [Aaron] It would definitely look different today with having kids. But it is still possible. A couple of ideas we've had. [Jennifer] Well for starters just like you said about the seasons thing, I think it's really important for couples to know that if you're gonna go into a season of hard work, meaning either both of you or one of you is heavily working, there just needs to be an end date where you're saying "Okay, we're gonna sprint this season," [Aaron] Yeah, this next six months we're gonna work this hard. [Jennifer] We're gonna work this hard and that way expectations are set and nobody can get mad at each other, and then there's a season of rest. Don't forget to give yourself that season of rest. [Aaron] Yeah, because you'll, if you just get it working nights and weekends, [Jennifer] You'll burn out. [Aaron] And all day, you'll want-- [Jennifer] Your family will burn out. [Aaron] You don't want to do that. It's a good reminder, and that's how we've always looked at it, we did the photography thing for a season, it was a year and a half that we did it and we crushed hard at that, we were doing so much. By the end of it we hated weddings. [Jennifer] But it was fun. [Aaron] It was super fun, and really hard. We got out of debt though. The idea is, we have a few ideas. The first one that we have is publish a book. We make a living now off of books that we've published. And we learned how to do it on our own, but one of the little things we started a while ago is called bookworthy.com, it's a course Jennifer and I made, teaching people how to self-publish, so if you're interested and if you're a writer, if you have children the book idea, if you do art or photography, publish a book, you might be able to make a little bit of money on Amazon. It's actually free to do as long as you have all the time and energy and the talent to do it. Another one is start a small business based off skills or resources you and your husband have. Like our photography business. [Jennifer] Yeah, another one would be painting. If you like to paint, you can sell canvases of different things that you like to paint. [Aaron] Yeah, or if you have some tools for painting. I've known people to paint houses and make really good money on the weekends. Doing handyman work, there's so many things that we have skill-wise that we don't realize is actually valuable. There's someone who needs what we have. Maybe as a couple write down the resources, the talents, the skills that you have and see how those can make money. [Jennifer] And you can utilize places like Etsy.com as a venue to sell your stuff. [Aaron] Yeah, we know someone that they just were really good at sewing little bows and start an Etsy store and sell a bunch of bows! [Jennifer] We also have people who've made a lot of money off, there's a lot of companies out there that have great models. Things like Young Living. [Aaron] Yeah, they've made it really easy to sell anything. Those are just some ideas. There's so many, so many ways to do it. But having a small business or doing some sort of side jobs it's how we paid off all of our debt. And it does add levels of complexity to your life, but it's totally doable, and it's sometimes the only way to get out of debt. If your normal job doesn't afford your enough financial liquidity to pay off debt, doing a side business for a while or a side job can definitely do that. [Jennifer] Okay, moving on to number three. How do you both feel about taking risks financially? Such as investing in something that might cost a lot up front, but also make money in the future. Which there's no guarantee. Let's just be straightforward. [Aaron] We always get told that, like this is a no-brainer, you just gotta start it. We always tell ourselves the best-case scenario and we don't think practically through it, so I just wanted to read Luke 14:28 says "For which of you, desiring to build a tower, "does not first sit down and count the cost, "whether he has enough to complete it?" And I just wanted to remind us that wisdom should tell us "Okay, that sounds like a great idea, yes," because it could totally be profitable to spend a little bit of money now, if you could figure out that it's going to double or triple or whatever. But we gotta count the cost. What's the time investment it's gonna take? What's the financial investment it's gonna take? How long will it take to return that? How much time is it gonna take to maintain and build and grow? Those are all things that we have to think about when trying to take a financial risk. And then the, we've done this before. We've been really frugal in the past and avoided any sort of risk and we've also made mistakes in risk. And what would you say is the better side of it? [Jennifer] Well like you said, counting the cost. I think it's always really important that we sit down and figure out how this will benefit our family or how this will hurt our family, and I think the times that we've made mistakes or the times that we don't really count the cost, [Aaron] Yeah, and we rush into things. That's been my fault, many a times. [Jennifer] Well, I wasn't going to point the finger. [Aaron] Yeah it's all right. [Jennifer] I was gonna say out of the two of us or how, because the question is how do you both feel about it, how do you feel about taking risks financially? What's your process? [Aaron] I'm usually pretty safe, but I have made mistakes and it always comes back to I don't fully think through it, I tell myself the best-case scenario, and often it's a rush. And so now we have these rules of it's a rush, it's a no. For the most part. There's been times, but usually if it's a rush, it's a no. [Jennifer] Yeah, when I think about this question, I think "Well, if it's a risk for some sort of investment "or stocks or something like money-wise that way," I always get really nervous and I'm like "Nope, I won't do it," but when it comes to a risk of taking a risk on someone or somebody's talent, one of ours, something that we have a dream to do, that's easier for me to say yes to, even if we waste a lot of money doing it. I don't know why, but there's something in my heart that just says "Let's go for that." [Aaron] Yeah, and if it could be a slow and minimal risk, that's always, what we try and do is like how can we make this as little of risk as possible? Like if we're gonna work with a new company that's gonna print our books or advertise for us, or whatever it is. It's all risk, technically, because they can mess up. You could buy the wrong thing, you could spend the wrong money, it just-- [Jennifer] Would you say that it would be wise to also seek counsel on certain decisions, like maybe those close friends that you have, or-- [Aaron] Oh 100%. Getting many wise counselors around you is the way we do battle and we win battles. I just wanted to read one more scripture on this. James 4:13-17 says: "Come now, you who say, "today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town "and spend a year there and trade and make a profit "yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. "What is your life? "For you are a mist that appears "for a little time and then vanishes. "Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that. "As it is, you boast in your arrogance. "All such boasting is evil. "So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, "for him it is sin." I just wanted to bring this up because the other side of this is to remember that we have no control over tomorrow. We don't know. I could invest today and the Lord can come tomorrow. We can, doesn't mean not to, but James is telling us less have a heart of like "Well if the Lord wills it." We're gonna work, we're gonna plan, we're going to count the costs, we're gonna get counsel, we're gonna figure things out, but to be honest, if the Lord wants it to happen or not. [Jennifer] The other thing I want to add to this section about taking financial risks is you guys gotta be in unity when taking financial risks and don't, not at the cost of your marriage. I don't want people to jump into making decisions that, one spouse is for it, one spouse isn't. I really think that there needs to be unity whenever you advance in making decisions like this. [Aaron] That's a good point. Be in complete unity, have peace about it and I would say lastly, you should not taking a financial risk unless you have some extra money to play with. [Jennifer] To risk. [Aaron] If you're literally not being able to buy groceries to risk this, that's not a good strategy. [Jennifer] That's good. [Aaron] It may mean sell some more things and say "Okay, we have this extra $1,000, "we can put it towards debt or we can start this thing, "but that $1,000, if it's gone or not gone, "isn't gonna hinder your family from being taken care of." [Jennifer] That's good, I'm glad you mentioned that. Okay, number four. Do you make a college fund for your children? If so, how much do you add to it each month? [Aaron] Do we have a college fund? [Jennifer] No. Short answer, no. Do we have a little bit of savings if they needed it? Sure, but we also want to encourage our kids, just in their future we talk about college. We want to encourage them to be hard workers, that if they needed to pay for their own college they could. [Aaron] Yeah, and teaching them the abilities that they have and how they can make money. We have an IRA that we put money into that could be used for school, but we don't necessarily have a direct college fund. [Jennifer] And do we put money in it every month? [Aaron] We don't put money in every month, we put it, for a while we were but we adjust that based off of how our income is. The next question is how do you feel about mortgages? Well I hate mortgages. [Jennifer] Everybody does. [Aaron] Who likes mortgages? [Jennifer] This is specifically, this couple was asking because they say "We are debt-free but live in NYC and it seems like "you can't own a home without a mortgage. "Is that still being debt-free?" Having a mortgage? [Aaron] Well technically no, because you're in debt. But some people would say "Well it's good debt, "because it appreciates." Well sure, as long the market is appreciating. There's again, you don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring. [Jennifer] I feel like for the majority most people would say it doesn't fall under the debt-free title. [Aaron] Yeah again, so we bought a house. We got a mortgage and we did the normal thing, but we had been debt-free for seven years before buying a house. There's a season actually leading up to like six years into our debt-free-ness I didn't even want to buy a house because I didn't want to get in debt again. But you know, things change and we made a different decision and our goal was to treat that debt the same way we treated the other debt. Again, you have to count the costs and you have to make the decision that way and get wise counsel. Can you afford it? And then, because the way I looked at it is I was paying X amount of dollars for rent anyway, so if I could pay that to something I'm gonna own, that's why we decided to buy a house finally. [Jennifer] We actually put a stipulation on it. You said we're not gonna, we're not gonna even look for a home to buy if the mortgage isn't less than what we're paying for rent. [Aaron] Yeah, that was a, man, because when we were looking it gets so easy to start looking outside your range. [Jennifer] Yeah and you keep going up and up. [Aaron] Like "Well it's only another 10,000, "well, this is nicer." I don't know. [Jennifer] Are you repeating me? [Aaron] No! That's my inside voice, I don't know. But I did, I made us a hard stipulation. I said "I don't want to buy a house "that mortgage's gonna be more than our current rent." And we did, we actually hit that. It took us a long time and it was really frustrating at times. [Jennifer] And we had to be patient, but I would just like the other questions I would say you guys have to be in unity if you are gonna go into that mortgage. [Aaron] Yeah and count the costs, it's gonna be an investment that you have to put your own blood, sweat, and tears into. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] All right, cool, let's move on. How do we not touch savings? It's a pretty short question. [Jennifer] Bury it really deep in the backyard. [Aaron] If this is a self-control thing, then you need to learn self-control. Like if you're just dipping in because you wanted to go out to eat or if you want to buy that thing-- [Jennifer] Have that coffee. [Aaron] That's, you're never gonna be able to save if that's how you are. If it's a problem with you can't pay your rent, dip into savings. [Jennifer] That's what it's there for. [Aaron] Yeah, that's what it's there for. I would say just practice. Give yourself goals. Say "We're gonna save to this dollar amount, "and if we do, we'll celebrate by spending a little bit, "1% of it." [Jennifer] That's a good idea. [Aaron] And that way you're helping yourself, training yourself to go longer without dipping into your savings, and you have a goal you're gonna hit. [Jennifer] Yeah, cool. Okay, number seven. How do you tithe when you're financially struggling? [Aaron] How did we do it? [Jennifer] Sowe lived pretty radically, we still tithed even though we were struggling financially. We believed that everything that we got was God's and we gave it back to him. [Aaron] All of it. Nobut we had this, I believed that generosity and giving and tithing were spiritual disciplines and I believed that I wanted to trust God. And I remember telling us, I said "Hey, the only place in the Bible that God tells His people "to test Him is in the Old Testament," and He tells His people, He goes "Bring all the tithe "to the storehouse," when He's talking about the temple. [Jennifer] In Micah? [Aaron] Yeah, and He says "See that I will not open the floodgates of heaven," [Jennifer] Or was it Malachi? [Aaron] Oh, it's Malachi I think you're right. It's the last book of the Old Testament. And He just challenges them to challenge Him. Like "Hey, you do what you have been supposed to be doing "for all of these generations that you haven't been doing it "and I will pour out my blessing on my people." Now that was talking to the Jews, but God hasn't changed. And so I looked at God and I said "I want to give. "I want to be a giver, I want to be generous, "I want to be a tither." And what was awesome is a couple things happened. We were able to give and be generous, and it also changed our perspectives on money. [Jennifer] Yeah, we didn't hold it so tightly. [Aaron] Which is the whole point of giving anyway, of knowing it's all God's. We actually, while we were trying to get out of debt, we made it a challenge to ourselves to see how much we could give. What is funny is it kept us from giving ourselves pretty much anything. We just had enough to live on and not only were we able to pay our debt off, but we were also able to give more than we ever were able to give. Not that that made us any more righteous or anything, it was our own personal challenge and it was pretty awesome to see that God still provided, God grew what we were able to give, and decreased our debt as we were faithful. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think one of the things we wanted to avoid too was, well once we were out of debt and we have money, is it gonna be harder for us to give then? You know what I mean? We wanted to build that habit-- [Aaron] Well because the mentality's always like "Oh I'll give when I have more," and I have a scripture to reference for this, but once I have more, that's when I'll give. And we're not giving this as a command to anyone. You have to choose in your heart and decide in your heart what you're gonna give and how you're gonna give as a family, and that you are, at any level of giving, are you gonna trust God? Are you gonna seek Him and are you gonna be wise with your money? Because that's what He wants from us. He wants us to be wise, not just frivolous and like "I'm just gonna throw it away, here's that, "and oh, I can't pay rent now," no, be wise. If you want to give, pray and ask how you guys can give and ask God to change your hearts on what money means to you and where it goes and when it goes. And the verse I wanted to bring up about this is in Mark 12 and it's about this Jesus recognizing how two different kinds of people are giving and he says "And he sat down opposite the treasury "and watched the people putting money into the offering box. "Many rich people put in large sums. "And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, "which make a penny. "And He called His disciples to Him and said to them "Truly I say to you, this poor widow has put in more "than all these who are contributing to the offering box, "for they all contributed out of their abundance, "but she, out of her poverty, has put in everything she had, "all she had to live on." And so just that mentality of once we have more then we'll give, Jesus is showing us in this picture, he's saying "Actually, she gave more out of her poverty "because she didn't have much to give but she still gave." Knowing that, if we have the mentality of one day we'll give when we have more isn't the right mentality to have. The right mentality to have is like "God is yours, teach me. "Teach me how to use it. "Where do you want it?" [Jennifer] Okay, number eight. What is your take on separate bank accounts and marriage? [Aaron] Well I think there's a scripture that speaks clearly to this, and it's in Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31. [Jennifer] Hold on, those are a lot of verses. [Aaron] Oh, well they all say the same thing. It says the two shall become one. Our take is that it should just be, there's one place that money goes, it's our money, and we use it for God's Kingdom. [Jennifer] And having the one bank account, it helps you in building that oneness and that unity and practicing and walking it out on a daily basis. [Aaron] Yeah so our perspective is you share a bank account. Now we have a savings account, we have a few accounts, but there's not her money, my money. [Jennifer] No, we all have access and we all put into it and we all take out of it and we talk about it a lot. [Aaron] Yeah. Number nine, when budgeting, do you allow for a savings amount for birthday gifts, food, et cetera, or does it all come out of general? [Jennifer] Okay, so how we would do this is we would have in our budgeting we would account for food and even going out to eat, but then we'd just have a general fund where those kinds of things came out of. Birthday gifts and random things. [Aaron] Yeah, we called it our personal allowance, which was after we broke down all of our budget, whatever was left, which was usually nothing. Sometimes it was a little bit. But yeah, we've never been that specific, but you can totally get that specific. I know people that have broke their budget as specific as you can imagine. [Jennifer] Yeah, and I know having the app on our phone, the bank app has helped, because you'll check right there as we're checking out in line, making sure that we can afford that birthday gift or whatever it is extra that we were paying. [Aaron] If I have to transfer from savings or something like that. What's number 10? [Jennifer] Number 10 is what percentage of the budget should be allowed for food, assuming that they're talking about all food or just going out, I'm not really sure, but, [Aaron] If you're in debt and you're trying to get out of debt and you're trying to save money, you just probably should not eat out. It's way more expensive and if you're going somewhere that's cheaper than a restaurant, it's probably not healthy. Eat at home, it's cheaper, you can buy in bulk, you can organize it so your budget for food, our budget was always just food. And if we ate out, it came out of that budget, which hurt us because you have this eating out bill and then it took away from your groceries for that week. [Jennifer] Yeah, recently I was following someone on Instagram who posted a screenshot of a breakdown of what percentage of your budget should be for food, depending on your family size, and I thought it was really interesting. I don't remember exactly where she got it from but if you just Googled it, it would show up. [Aaron] Yeah, and the way you can do this is go grocery shopping, and figure out what your normal grocery shopping list is and that's your budget. If you need to break down your grocery shopping budget more and you can find, like, well we don't need to get cereals this time, or pick the things that are less necessary or figure out how to buy things in bulk, but definitely if you're trying to save money and get out of debt, grocery shopping, buying in bulk, freezing stuff is gonna be the best way to go and eating out should probably be put on the back burner for a while. [Jennifer] That's funny, back burner, because we're talking about making food at home. Don't forget about it, don't let it burn! Just kidding. Okay, number eleven. How much is a realistic amount to save each week? [Aaron] This is gonna be unique before we've seen a person's budget. To be honest, we didn't save a penny. [Jennifer] Until we were out of debt and beyond that. [Aaron] Yeah, my perspective on it is why are we saving money when we could be putting that money towards debt? Once we were out of debt, we started thinking about savings differently, but again, that's gonna be dependent on your income, where you're at, how much debt you have, and figuring out whatever percentage of your income can be saved, yeah. Number 12, my husband and I are in so much debt. We don't know how to budget. Any advice, we want to be debt-free and not living paycheck to paycheck. My advice to this couple is get on the same page, start talking about it, get real. We have to recognize that we can't just play with these things. If you need to stop eating out, there's areas that you're spending money that you shouldn't. If it means finding a better job, start looking. Maybe your second job you have is looking for a better job. If you're only making ends meet on this current job, you're not getting enough hours, look for a better one. Right now we're in the best economy if you're looking for a job. And I know that's easier said than done, but sometimes you just need to pull the Band-Aid off and realize, "Okay, this sore's not getting healed. "We need to sit down, we need to write down everything. "Every penny, where it goes. "We need to start selling everything we have. "We need to start just," boil your life down to what you need and scramble to get out of debt. [Jennifer] Also we shouldn't neglect the power of prayer. I feel like there have been so many testimonies from our friend's life and just our life of praying for our specific needs. What kind of job do you have and do you need that God could be fulfilling for you given the opportunity to open your eyes and show you and give you exactly what you need? [Aaron] And then start looking actively. Send resumes. Now don't tell your current job that you're doing that, because they might fire you, but that's what I would do. I would start looking today. Number 13, we have three boys. How should we decide what they can and can't do because of the budget? They love sports, music, et cetera. [Jennifer] Okay, so again, going back to the unity I feel like you and your husband, you and your spouse need to be on the same page about what the budget can allot for, where is there room to do stuff, and if the budget for that season doesn't, doesn't have room for those extra things, it's gonna be hard, but you have to be able to say no and you just have to explain to your family what that means. [Aaron] Yeah, and our kids are not gonna fall apart, become less of citizens in this country and immoral because they don't do sports. We sometimes have those draws of like "Well if they don't do these things, "they're gonna miss out on," but we have to remember, there's so many other ways that our kids will learn. Whatever skills they can learn in those sports or those activities. [Jennifer] And don't forget that they're also learning the discipline of being a good start with finances, and this is part of learning and they'll have to know that in life, there's seasons when you can't do as much, and that has to be okay. [Aaron] Think about this, that sports is like a team sport thing, right? Getting out of debt's a team sport. Your children are in your family, they're on your team, and they need to be a part of that. And you can bring them in and you can say "Well, guys, we're gonna go through a season "that's gonna be hard, but we're gonna do it together." [Jennifer] Yeah, here's the downside if you're not doing it together. Let's say, let's say mom is pushing for the team sports and dad's saying "Well, we can't afford it this time," what are the children gonna see? They're gonna see division in the marriage, they're gonna see-- [Aaron] Yeah, and they'll react to that. [Jennifer] And they'll react to it and then they also may start to favor the parent who's for them and for what the things that they want to do. [Aaron] Or worse become bitter towards the other parent. [Jennifer] Or become bitter towards the other parent. And we want to avoid that. At Marriage After God, understands the power of unity and doesn't lose sight of that. [Aaron] Yeah, and so being on the same page again, as a couple, so that our children see our unity and strength and they will learn more from that than they'll learn probably from any sport in my opinion. [Jennifer] Okay, number 14. What do you do for health insurance? We are self-employed and we'd love to hear what you do. [Aaron] For a long time, we were on, what was that company called? It was not, Samaritan's Purse is one of them, yeah, it was called MediShare. It's a Christian healthcare, it's a shared thing where you put money in and that money helps other people in their bills and vice versa. We did that for a while, actually. There's MediShare and then there's Samaritan's Purse and I know there's a couple others, but just look for Christian shared health plans. [Jennifer] Number 15 is how do you navigate financial stress as a team? What are some ways, practical ways, that we can help each other when there's financial stress? [Aaron] Lots of conversations about what's going on. Planning together, writing things down, prayer, and just constantly reminding each other that we're gonna get through it together, that we're gonna do it together, that we're gonna make choices together, and not getting off, out of hand and sneaking around and spending money over here or making choices over here behind each other's backs, but actually-- [Jennifer] Or arguing about it, right, in front of everyone. [Aaron] Or arguing about it, yeah, which has happened. But yeah, just that team, doing it together. Having the conversations at night, putting the strategies in place. [Jennifer] I think too, a huge win would be reminding each other of the future. We started out the episode, that later, living life later, what does that look like? [Aaron] We did this a lot. [Jennifer] Yeah, so envision for each other what that future looks like and enjoy that moment right then and there. [Aaron] Well and recognize like "Hey, what we're doing right now is gonna give us "something else, it's gonna give us something better, "the fruit it's gonna bear is gonna be good," and so that's such a good reminder, because we did that. Because it was so hard at times, right in the middle of it, you're like "Gosh, this is just too hard," to be like "Hey, but just know in a few years, "this is gonna be so far behind us, "and we're gonna be able to make choices "that we weren't able to make before, "and it's gonna feel so good and freeing," so yeah, as a team, just reminding each other of what it's gonna do, working hard at these things. We got a few more. Why don't you let us know what the next? Okay, so we got a few more questions. Why don't you hit the next question for us. [Jennifer] Okay, number 16 is what do you guys use for a budget? Which if they don't know, Aaron does most of the budgeting, which I like, because I don't really have the mental space right now to do it. [Aaron] There's two parts to our budget. I'm gonna be honest, we don't focus on our budget as much as we used to, as micro as we used to. But we still use a lot of the general disciplines, but when we were getting out of debt, man, I was looking at that thing every single day. [Jennifer] Yeah, heightenly aware. [Aaron] Yeah, so what I did is I just created a Google Sheet, a spreadsheet, or you can use Microsoft, what's it called? Excel. And I literally wrote down on the sheet every single thing that we spend money on. I looked at our grocery bills to see how much we spent on groceries, I looked at our gas bills to see what our average was each month, and then I rounded them all up a little bit, because if it was like one month this high, one month it was low, I rounded them all up a little bit, and then I took the total and then I broke down by actual things that we owed, like bills, and then right there we found out what our budget was. It was like every month, to live, we needed $1,800 or $1,250 or whatever it was. And that was phone bill, that was gas, that was literally every single penny we had to spend to live. And then anything that was left over, I broke up in percentages. 10% to tithe, or 12%, whatever our number was, and then how much of it was gonna go to debt, actually no, so then whatever was left over I broke up into allowance and to tithe and savings. But for a while, allowance and savings was zero and tithe was the only thing that we had extra. That's how we did it, and the second part of it was we opened up several different bank accounts. One was our bills bank accounts, so every penny that was owed to bills for the month went into that account and all our bills were paid from it. And then we had our savings account, our tithe account, and our allowance account. And based off the spreadsheet, we just put the money, it's like the envelope system that Dave Ramsey does but we did it digitally. That's how we budgeted. [Jennifer] Okay, these next few which we're gonna wrap up with are all the same, so I'm gonna read them all and then we'll try and answer them. 17 is how do you budget with kids with one income and a stay at home mom? Number 18 is I want to be a stay at home mom, but we are not sure we can afford it. What should we do? And number 19. Do you have any advice on seeing if you're ready to go to a one-income household? How do you prepare to go to one income with a second baby? All surrounding that, one income, stay at home mom, one kid or more, how do you budget? How do you do it? [Aaron] Well, strict. Get real strict. Frugality. Learning, finding all the tricks of the trade of how to save money, how to couponing, and where's the best place to grocery shop and getting hand-me-downs, clothes-wise and shopping at thrift stores if you need to. That's, to be honest I always think like "Why are we buying brand new clothes? "These kids grow out of them so fast." [Jennifer] Well we've saved a lot of ours. [Aaron] Yeah, we save our, oh, that's frugality. We buy something and then we save it, and all of our kids get the same clothes. [Jennifer] We needed new ones when Olive came along, because she's a girl. [Aaron] Just, there's so many resources out there. There's bloggers and YouTubers and Instagrammers that talk about this. And creating a strategy and praying through it, getting wisdom and advice, and then figuring out the process. [Jennifer] I think a really huge encouragement here would be if you're preparing to go to that one-income household and mom's gonna be staying at home or maybe mom's already home and there's another baby on the way and money just feels tight, in those seasons I would just encourage you to be reminded, both of you be reminded of your why. Why is mom staying at home? Because the ministry-- [Aaron] What's important for ya? [Jennifer] The ministry of raising children and managing a home and having attention there is so valuable. More valuable than having that extra income or having multiple streams of revenue just for the sake of building your guys' financial security, and I just want to encourage those moms who are at home who are just working so hard to be home with their kids and to have that type of lifestyle, even if it means forsaking an extra income. Find a way to make it work and be motivated because of that value. [Aaron] Yeah, and then going back to the living paycheck to paycheck, be praying and actively looking for a better paying job. Maybe it's gonna take some night school to learn a new skill, but work hard and let the family know that it's gonna be a hard season until this date when things will change, because I'm gonna be in school or looking for a new job or working a new job or a second job. And figure those things out. And I do want to say, our current world has made it exceedingly difficult to do family the way it's always been done. I just wanted to commiserate with that and I wanted to let everyone know to be praying through that and asking God to show them, and to reveal how they can make that happen in their home, if that's the desire they have. That's the end of our questions. [Jennifer] That wraps up the questions that you guys asked, and we just want to say thank you for sharing those questions with us. Hopefully we did them some justice and encouraged, send them some encouragement with how we answered them. [Aaron] Yeah. Before we pray for you guys, I just wanted to remind you that at Marriage After God, the whole reason we're doing this is that we want to please God. We want to chase after His will for our lives. We want to be used by Him. We want our marriages to be used to grow His Kingdom. And a Marriage After God doesn't neglect and doesn't aimlessly go through life financially. We do these things with purpose and I know it can seem hard, and it is hard, but that's what we're doing, we're doing hard things. And we're doing it by the power of the Holy Spirit, and so we just want to encourage you to press on, to begin to learn self-control and learn to beat your bodies so that you're not disqualified in this race. And know that we're doing it with you. [Jennifer] Okay, we just want to ask that you join us in prayer. Dear Lord, thank you for everything you give to us. Thank you for our finances and thank you for our jobs so that we can provide for our families, so that we can give back to you and be generous with others. We pray we would be good stewards of all that you give to us especially money. We pray we would be faithful to use our money the way you want us to. Help us to be united in our marriage in the way that we spend, save, and give. Help us to make financial decisions with wisdom and with wise counsel. Please help us to live debt-free, and may our lives be a testimony to others of your faithfulness. May we be people who seek to use our finances to build your Kingdom, in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you guys so much for joining us this week and we'll see you next time. [Narrator] Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

If you would like to support this podcast please consider picking up one of our marriage books. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com DESCRIPTION We think every married couple would agree that a little encouragement goes a long way! Marriage can be difficult and the enemy is good at convincing us that we should shrink back in our issues, isolate from one another, and try and get through it on our own strength. But we need to be reminded of who we are in this world, that we are loved, and that our marriage is valuable. We need to be reminded that our marriage has a great purpose for God's Kingdom. Every marriage needs this. That is why we are giving you 7 ways to encourage your married friends in this week's Marriage After God Podcast episode. We share a handful of ways you can be reminding your married friends that their marriage is worth fighting for, that they should be drawing close to God, and that they are being prayed for by you! As Christian husbands and wives, we should be encouraging other Christian husbands and wives, our dear friends, and the very people who are part of the same body, one body, Christ's body! Let's be the kind of friends that are loving, sacrificial, and willing to serve. Let's be light in people's lives. We hope this episode inspires you to reach out to your friends today, let them know they are not alone and that their marriage is valuable. The Lifegiving Table: Nurturing Faith through Feasting, One Meal at a Time - by Sally Clarkson -> https://amzn.to/2Vn2xpS READ: [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna share seven ways to encourage your married friends. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life, [Aaron] love, [Jennifer] and power [Aaron] that can only be found by chasing after God [Jennifer] together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. [Aaron] Hey, thanks for joining us for the first episode of 2019. [Jennifer] Woo hoo! [Aaron] Yeah. And we just wanna invite you to leave a review. If you've been enjoying this podcast since last year and are just loving the content, if you wanna help get the word out, one of the best ways to do that is to leave a star rating, which is super easy, you just scroll to the bottom of the iTunes app, if you're listening on iTunes, and you hit a star rating, that's enough. And if you want to do more, you can actually leave a text review, and we read through those all. They're really encouraging and yeah. We'd just love to invite you to do that. [Jennifer] We'd also like you to know that one of the ways that this podcast is supported is through people like you shopping through our store. So if you would like to check out just the resources that we've created for you for your marriage to encourage you guys, go to shop.marriageaftergod.com. [Aaron] Okay, so let's start off with our icebreaker question. Jennifer, what is one thing you are passionate about? [Jennifer] Well, something I don't know if they know about me is I'm very passionate about art. I love all things art, but specifically painting and restoring furniture. So like, I just got an old desk for Olive and it was multicolored and had designs on it and-- [Aaron] It was unique, yeah. [Jennifer] It was very unique, very bold dark blue and green. But I just, I covered it all with some chalk paint and did this kind of antique finish on it. It turned out really great, went to Hobby Lobby, got some knobs for it, so just doing kind of creative things like that, I love jumping into projects like that. [Aaron] Yeah, and you're good at it, too. [Jennifer] Aw, thanks. [Aaron] You should actually post some pictures from old art projects you've done in the past, like the blue lady-- [Jennifer] Maybe I'll do that. [Aaron] And I'm thinking of the Jesus painting you did a while ago. You're actually really good at it. [Jennifer] Thanks. What about you? [Aaron] Yeah, something I'm passionate about, I'm actually passionate about, and this wasn't planned, but I'm passionate about helping people with their businesses. Maybe people don't know this about me, but I do a little bit of consulting here and there. I don't do it publicly necessarily, but like, lots of our friends I've helped with their businesses, with their websites, with the creative, the marketing, I actually really love it. [Jennifer] Yeah, you're good at that, too. I feel like you have just something unique about you where you could just seriously look at any kind of business project, any goal that someone has and go, oh yeah, this is what you should do to make it awesome. [Aaron] And sometimes it works. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] Yeah, but that's what I'm passionate about. I like the one on one consulting-- [Jennifer] The going back and forth. [Aaron] The going back and forth, the brainstorming, the ideation. [Jennifer] Ideation, that's what you're good at. That's awesome. [Aaron] So that's what we're passionate about. There's a lot of things we're passionate about, but those are some specific ones that people might not know about us. Okay, so we have, before we get into the main topic, we have a quote from the book, The Lifegiving Table, by Sally Clarkson. [Jennifer] This is a really great book if you guys wanna jump into for, well the subtitle is Nurturing Faith through Feasting, One Meal at a Time, and she talks a lot about just creating your family culture around the table and she gives ideas on how to do that. She even gives recipes in the book, but on page 219 she says this: "Having deep, meaningful relationships "is not just a pleasant addition to our lives, "but an element essential to our identities." [Aaron] That's good. And it's about what we're talking about today. [Jennifer] Yeah, so we're gonna be talking about friendships and specifically your friends who are married and engaging in community with them. [Aaron] And specifically on how your marriage can be an encouragement to those other marriages. Because a part of being a marriage after God is not that it's just about us and what we're doing in the world and God's using us for, but that we are walking with other Christians as the body of Christ, for his purposes, for what he's doing, and one of those things, man, the New Testament, I feel like almost everything that's said in the New Testament is about our relationship with one another. You know, especially the Book of Ephesians, which is the relationship book, it's about our relationship with God, our relationship with each other as husband and wife, with our children. And so God loves relationships. [Jennifer] Yeah, he does. [Aaron] He came because of relationships. He died for relationship. [Jennifer] And Sally actually mentions just before that quote that I just read, she mentions how God created us in His image, and if He's a relational being then we are as well. [Aaron] Yeah, and that's exactly what we are, and I feel like one of the things the enemy does is makes us wanna be alone, wants to get us away from community with other believers, makes us feel like we're the only ones who think the way we think, or every time I get close to people, I get hurt. Which is funny, 'cause that's exactly how relationships work, they're sticky. [Jennifer] They're messy, yeah. [Aaron] They're messy. And you're probably not close enough to someone if you're not feeling hurt sometimes. Doesn't mean that we should be hurting each other, but it's just, it's natural for that to happen. But the enemy doesn't like it. He doesn't like us being connected with one another, closely tied together, 'cause we're stronger together. It's true in every aspect of life. You see it in the animal kingdom, you see it in the human kingdom, and when we're together, when we're unified, when we're one, when we're walking together, we strengthen each other, we're less prone to being attacked, we're less prone to falling, and when we do, we have someone to pick us up. Right? And so we're gonna talk a little bit about how your marriage, you listening right now, can encourage other marriages. [Jennifer] And it's so important 'cause I mean, when I think about some of the kingdom work, the things that God has us purposed to do, I think about evangelism and I think about telling, sharing the gospel with people who don't know Him. [Aaron] Yeah, the lost, yeah. [Jennifer] Right, the lost. But it's also so important to remember that even as Christians, we need to be reminded of these things, we need to be reminded of who God is in our life and how He's working and how He's moving in our life, and I think that's such a great thing about friendship is we can do that for each other. And that's why I'm really excited about this episode, 'cause we're gonna give you some kind of practical things and just encourage you to be those type of people in your relationships with your other married couple friends. [Aaron] Yeah, and if it wasn't for other marriages encouraging us, we would not be here today. [Jennifer] That's true. [Aaron] As in, we'd probably be divorced, but we had couples who loved us enough to dive into our messiness, to peer in, to say hard things to us, to encourage us, to be there late into the night. You know, we've talked about this in past episodes, you talk about it in your book, but just all the tears, all the laughter, all the late nights, all the food. There's all these things that were incorporated into our relationships and people loving on us and walking with us. [Jennifer] And we all need that. Like, even those listening, they're probably going well I need that. I just wanna encourage all of us to be the people that we need in our lives. [Aaron] That's a good one. We need to be the people. Yeah, we need to be the example, we need to. And you know what? Sometimes we don't feel like we can be that person, but we still should be. Because it's the times that you feel like you can't be it that you probably need to be it. [Jennifer] So this is really funny, it reminds me of growing up, my grandma used to say 'cause we'd all eat a bunch of food when we got to her house and then we'd all just wanna like, lay around on the couch and she'd go, 'kay it's time for a walk, 'cause that's the best time to take a walk, is when you feel like you don't-- [Aaron] You wanna go to bed. [Jennifer] Yeah, when you feel like you wanna go to bed or when you feel like you can't. [Aaron] And hasn't science like, proven that now? It's like, it helps with digestion to go for a walk after you eat? [Jennifer] I don't know, I just remember my grandma always saying it. [Aaron] Grandma knew things. Yeah, so-- [Jennifer] So here's our encouragement to you, to go take a walk. No. [Aaron] Yeah, go get some food, take a walk. No but, I feel like this is important to, 'cause we all have friends, but how many of us have friends that we know intimately, that they're more like family to us? And I think it needs to be happening more in the Church. If we realize that being a part of the body of Christ literally means that we are unified with other Christians, not just well yeah, I go to church with so-and-so and oh yeah, they're nice but they don't know anything about you and they're never in your life. And we can't do this with every single Christian, but we can do it with some. [Jennifer] Yeah, and those who are already closest to us. [Aaron] Oh yeah. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] Yeah, so why don't we just get into the seven ways? [Jennifer] Let's do it. Okay, you wanna start with number one? [Aaron] Yeah. You mentioned a minute ago about the gospel and how in evangelism, preaching the gospel to the lost, but when I read the Bible, when I read the New Testament, it's all about reminding the believer of what the gospel says. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Doesn't mean we shouldn't preach the gospel to the lost, that's what we preach the gospel for, is for salvation, that Jesus would be preached and that people would turn their hearts to him and that they would join the body of Christ. But those that are in the body of Christ, I believe we need to be preaching the gospel to each other more often, not just assuming like, oh everyone, yeah, we're saved, we got the gospel. The gospel is the power of God. It's the thing that changes us, and many of the hard things that we walk through in life and like, our sins and things that we might have a hard time escaping, is because we haven't, either we've forgotten the gospel or we haven't truly understood it. Because the gospel is the thing that saves us, it's the thing that transforms us, it's the thing that makes us be like Christ. [Jennifer] That's good. [Aaron] Yeah, so I wanna read this scripture, it's Romans 1:16. Paul says this, he says, "For I am not "ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God, "for salvation to everyone who believes, "to the Jew first and also to the Greek." And so in encouraging our friends, I think one of the most powerful things we can do is constantly be reminding them of the gospel, that we were once sinners lost in our sin, deserving the wrath of God because he's a just God, but because God loved us so much, John 3:16, he sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him will not perish under the wrath that we deserve. Jesus took the wrath we deserved, and if we believe in him and we follow him, we actually receive salvation and grace. And our relationship with God is made new and that's the gospel. [Jennifer] Preach it. [Aaron] Yeah. [Jennifer] It's so good. So here's the thing that I know that this episode is for us to get our minds on our friends and how we can be a vessel of God's love and grace toward them, but when we say what you just said, when we have a heart directed towards our friends in reminding them of the gospel, what does that actually do for us? Like what's, there's benefit there. [Aaron] I think it's like, practice first of all. Practice preaching the gospel. You know, sadly I believe many Christians don't even know what the actual gospel is. And so saying it over and over again, it not only reminds us, but it gives us practice on how to preach the gospel. And you're preaching it in a safe environment 'cause you're preaching it to someone who already believes it. [Jennifer] Right. [Aaron] And you're reminding them, so you're loving them and you're saying hey, brother, sister, all these things that you're walking in right now, filter them through the gospel. Remember that we actually, what we deserve is eternal punishment. And but because God loved us so much and he sent his son to die for us, we don't get eternal punishment, we get all of the benefits of being a son of God and a daughter of God, which is what the Bible teach us, that is the gospel. [Jennifer] Yeah, and I just feel like if we're sharing the gospel with our friends, if we're reminding them of who we are in light of God's love story, then we're gonna be reminded of that constantly. It's gonna be on the forefront of our minds. [Aaron] Exactly, it will. And I think about when you have a brother and sister walking in sin. Like let's say you have a married couple, friends of yours, and the husband's not necessarily loving his wife as Christ loves the Church, which is what Ephesians five teaches us. Or you have a wife not walking in reverence or submission to her husband and you say hey, I just wanna encourage you guys, do you remember what the gospel says? Like, if you recognize what we should've gotten but what we do receive, it actually brings us back to a place of healthy reverence and fear for the Lord and it reminds us of his goodness. And then you know what? It often brings us to repentance. Lord, you know what? I'm so sorry. Change me and make me like you want me to be because I love you and you've given me everything that I don't deserve. It reminds us of how we can be and who we should be and who God's made us to be and who He sees us as already, which is awesome. So the gospel I think is the most powerful thing we can continually be doing in our friends' lives, and like you said, it reminds us, too. [Jennifer] Yeah. Okay, so moving on to number two, and when we were going through the notes, I actually asked Aaron, isn't that the same as number one? And so I'm gonna let Aaron explain it, but it's share with them the truth of God's word. [Aaron] Yeah, so it definitely is. The gospel is a part of that, but there's often just practically, think about how many times for you, you've been going through something and I remind you of certain scriptures-- [Jennifer] That's true. [Aaron] That are truth and promises, and instead of you walking in the feeling, you're like, oh I can actually look at that and start thinking on that and dwelling on that. [Jennifer] Okay that's good, and I've had other friends reach out to me through a text message and you know, share a verse with me and just let me know that they're thinking about me and praying for me, and that is really powerful. So sharing God's word-- [Aaron] Yeah, there's nothing more powerful than the word of God. [Jennifer] Yeah, so sharing God's word with them, and practically, it could look like a phone call, a text message, a card, you know, all those things. Word of mouth, when you're sitting in front of them with coffee. [Aaron] Yeah, a little note on this, we've gotta be in the word of God. [Jennifer] In order to share it. [Aaron] To be prepared to share it, 'cause our friends might come to us and just mention something that they're going through or the way they're talking you just think like, oh man, I think they need to hear this. They're not thinking about this correctly. And then finding that scripture and saying, hey can I just read something to you? What's awesome about the word of God is instead of it just being my opinion, I think you should do this. Even if my opinion is founded in the word of God, it's still just me. But I can say hey, I just want you to know that like, lemme read this to you. Now what has to happen is they have to argue with the Bible. [Jennifer] Yeah, the authority of God. [Aaron] Yeah, as long as we're coming in a heart of love and encouragement, and our heart is to help them grow and we're gonna treat them the way we wanna be treated. Man, scripture is powerful. The Bible tells us that the word of God does not come, it goes out and does not return void. Meaning it's going to accomplish what it's going to accomplish. [Jennifer] Yeah. That's really good and I was just thinking, if your friends are married, chances are you, even if you don't know the specifics of what they might be going through in that week, you know that marriage can be difficult, and so you can just find a verse that's gonna encourage that. Like, does that make sense? [Aaron] Yeah, and you could be sending them like, large portions of scripture. Be like, hey can I encourage you today to read this chapter? And just say, look out for this word or look out for this. You know, I feel like God's heart for you is He wants you to know this about Himself. He wants you to know this about yourself. And on top of that, encouraging your friends to be in the word of God. Saying hey, are you guys reading? [Jennifer] Yeah that's huge. Challenge them, yeah. [Aaron] Jennifer we talk about this often, the times that we feel ourselves slipping into this routine of a little bit of bickering, which is totally sinful, we've talked about this in the past. [Jennifer] Just poor attitudes. [Aaron] Poor attitudes or just bad perspectives, discontentment. We realize man, we haven't been very consistent in the word of God. We've gotten out of sync, because the word of God puts our minds on the spirit rather than the flesh, and when we're not in the word of God, our natural tendency is just to walk in the flesh. So just continually reminding them. [Jennifer] A couple weeks ago I had, we were over at some friend's house and I was sitting on the couch with the wife and I asked her, I said so you know, have you been reading lately? Are you getting into a routine of being in God's word? And she shared with me that she had but it was kind of a struggle, and so I got to encourage her. And then she goes, what about you? And I was like, oh man, this is so good that I asked that question because I needed it myself. And I had just-- [Aaron] And you're like no. [Jennifer] No I was honest with her, I go you know, it's been really hard for me to get up in the morning and I wasn't doing that and so it challenged me to then change. And so I just think you know, being willing to even go to those hard places and ask those hard questions knowing they're probably gonna ask you back, it's good, it's all good. [Aaron] And you bring up a really good point. I think this is why a lot of people avoid saying things, because we know internally that-- [Jennifer] It's gonna come back to us. [Aaron] Well, the moment we say it, either we're lying or we're a hypocrite or we're doing it. [Jennifer] But this is also why we need that. Like, we need this. [Aaron] Yeah, walking in light as he is in light, as Jesus prays for us in John 17 and in first John, chapter one, he says if we have fellowship with God, then we have fellowship with one another. And if we walk in the light, then we, we'll have fellowship with one another. So the light that we walk in is doing and saying the things that God wants us to do, even if it means that we're going to also be told the same things. And that's the point of it, is that we're growing together and being built up together. And so man, you're right, saying something means you're gonna be vulnerable and have to be told the same thing or at least hear the same thing because you're saying it out of your own mouth. [Jennifer] Yeah. And just a practical note for this portion of this episode, what are some hard questions that they can ask their friends besides are you in the word? 'Cause I know another one is hey, have you been submissive to your husband? How are you guys doing in that department? [Aaron] That's a hard one to ask, right? [Jennifer] Well I know you and the guys usually ask, what do you guys usually ask? [Aaron] We ask each other does your wife feel cherished? And often the question is, and we wrote this in our book, my pastor always brings it up, could your wife say today that she is the most cherished woman she knows? And so for the husbands listening right now, I have a question for you. Is your wife the most cherished woman she knows? Could she say that? And if you can think to yourself I don't know if she would say that, you need to ask yourself that question. You need to figure out how to walk the way Ephesians 5:25 tells you to walk. [Jennifer] And then when you're catching up with your friends who are also married, who are also husbands and wives, be willing to ask each other hard questions like this, because this is what's gonna encourage us but also change us. [Aaron] And if someone who says they're your friend says it's none of your business, then you should ask yourself if that person really sees you as a friend. [Jennifer] Or be praying for them even more. [Aaron] Because it should be our business. I think of Cain and Abel. Cain kills his brother Abel, this is in the beginning of the Bible, and God comes to Cain and says where's your brother? And he says what, am I my brother's keeper? And the point was is God asked him where his brother was at, which means God was asking him where his brother was at. So do we know where our brothers are at? Or we can just say like, I'm not my brother's keeper. And in reality, that's not loving our brothers at all. [Jennifer] Right, if we love them we'll know where they're at. [Aaron] And we're actually supposed to be keepers of each other's hearts and relationships with God, and we walk with each other and it's safe, and so yes, we are keepers of our brothers and we just have to realize that. And so, that means I'm accountable to other Christians. If they ask me hey, is your wife cherished? I'm responsible as a believer to say truthfully yes or no, not get out of my business. Because if I don't want another Christian in my business, then am I a Christian? Because we're all a part of the same body. [Jennifer] Right, it's all one body. That's really good. So for those listening, if they have been resistant to let people into those intimate parts of their lives, this is a challenge for them to hear, to give maybe not everyone, maybe just a handful of people that permission. [Aaron] Yeah, and for those that are feeling that, like oh maybe we're not letting people in, go read Proverbs 18:1. It's a good scripture to talk about that kind of person who does that. [Jennifer] Yeah. Okay, so let's move on to number three, and it's be friendly. Proverbs 18:24 says, "A man who has friends "must himself be friendly, but there is a friend "who sticks closer than a brother." [Aaron] That's powerful. Like, it seems totally simple, right? But if you wanna have friends, we gotta be friendly. Like, so are we just being friendly, are we reaching out? Are we opening up our hearts? Are we laughing with, or are we just like sticks in the mud, which is how I can be sometimes. [Jennifer] Are we being vulnerable? [Aaron] Yeah, are we being vulnerable? [Jennifer] Are we being truthful? Because sometimes you can be in a room with people and you can kind of just tell, you know, they're not-- [Aaron] Yeah, we're surface level. [Jennifer] They're being surface level or they're not being open with me. [Aaron] Yeah, and friendly is like not, like we just kind of were talking about it before, not being afraid to let people in, not being afraid to be seen and known. [Jennifer] Yeah. I feel like being friendly also comes with thoughtfulness. Like, you have to be thoughtful of each other and maybe even what each other likes. Like, I have a handful of girlfriends who I know what kind of coffee they like and I can randomly drop it off for them when I know they're having a hard day, or you know, just little things like that. I think thoughtfulness is such a big part of friendship. That can be an encouragement. [Aaron] And I think of friendly, there's a word I also think of, of light. Like, are we light around our friends? Do they feel like it's always this work to be in our presence? Or is it light to be in our presence? And that's kind of what I think about friendly. We've had relationships in the past, Jennifer, that they always felt heavy. Not that they were necessarily going through heavy things, it just felt like work to be around those people. And we made it a point to like, not be those people. So there's times that we'll ask hey, how are we being as friends? Are we easy to be around or are we hard to be around? [Jennifer] I also wanna make a note that we never let those relationships go just because they felt heavy. We felt it was our responsibility to be accountable to them still and to love them still and to be-- [Aaron] Took more work. [Jennifer] It did take more work, but I just wanna encourage those listening, if you have relationships, be praying for those couples and maybe talk about this, you know, with them, but don't give up on them. [Aaron] Or even say the hard thing and have them over for dinner, have no kids around and say, can we just share with you something? We love you, but you're hard. That's the truth of it. Hey we love you, but it's hard. Like, there's these things that have happened, and can we work on this together? How can we help you? How can, is there something you haven't recognized? But having those conversations means that you're being friendly. Like hey, we want to be in this relationship with you. We don't wanna just, 'cause the easy thing to do is you just write it off. And some people say let's dust our sandals off. That's the easy thing to do, but that's not what we do to the others in the body of Christ. We don't just dust people off. [Jennifer] Yeah, I would say a marriage after God is loyal and faithful and loves deeply and cares about the hearts of those people. So we don't just walk away from them. [Aaron] Now there are, we're not gonna get into this, but there are biblical reasons to cut off relationships. [Jennifer] Well, if you and your husband have set boundaries and those boundaries are being broken, absolutely I feel like that's necessary. [Aaron] Or if there's unrepentant sin and it's been called out but is not being, and those people aren't being willing to change, then the Bible tells us to avoid those people. But we're talking about normal Christian relationships, friends, not someone who's walking in unrepentant sin. [Jennifer] Okay, so be friendly. Aaron, do you wanna hit number four? [Aaron] Number four is be hospitable. This one could be hard, especially if you want your house to be a certain way all the time. [Jennifer] Like you have expectations. [Aaron] Yeah, or the people that you might, the friends you might invite over have more kids than you do or older kids or younger kids or, there's lots of scenarios that could be-- [Jennifer] Different dynamics. [Aaron] Difficult to say let's open up our home and have people over. But man, the Bible, God, the word of God tells us that we should be hospitable people. First Peter four, eight through nine says, "Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, "since love covers a multitude of sins. "Show hospitality to one another without grumbling." So there's, I mean those are two verses that are super powerful in themselves, like love covers a multitude of sins? Which means if we can love with a Christ kind of love with our Christian brothers and sisters, there's a lot of things that that covers. It's pretty incredible. Now again, if someone's in unrepentant sin, that's different than someone who's come to you and repented of their sin. But our love can cover it, but the showing hospitality to one another. [Jennifer] What does that look like practically? [Aaron] Practically it means, hospitality means to open up what's ours. It is available. What I have is available to you. [Jennifer] And I wanna encourage people on this because sometimes we can look at a situation and think well, we don't have enough, and then therefore you're not gonna be hospitable in that moment, but how many times have a friend texted us and said they're in town, can they stop by for dinner? And I kind of like, I look at everything and it's halfway made and I'm thinking that very same thing, I don't think that there's enough, and then they get there and I spread everything out and it was a perfect amount. It was like exactly what we needed. [Aaron] Well and also just on that side of things, like of not having enough, the reason for having them over isn't because we have enough, it's to-- [Jennifer] It's because we wanna share it with them. [Aaron] It's because we're gonna share what we do have. [Jennifer] What we do have, yeah. That's good. [Aaron] And so we can, this is practically for us in the way we think and for those listening, hospitality is not sharing what you don't have, it's sharing what you do have. And so being willing to share, it's as simple as hey, you absolutely can come over, we would love to have dinner for you guys. We may not have enough to make you super full, so if you have anything you wanna bring, do it. But otherwise, just come and we will share with you what we have. [Jennifer] Now, there's other hospitality, too, where you kind of plan and prepare for it, knowing that you wanna bless this family or that family or that couple. [Aaron] So you save up for it. [Jennifer] And you save up for it or maybe they have a bigger family and you don't have enough utensils, go and get some plastic and just have a nice dinner on paper plates and plastic utensils. [Aaron] And there's something beautiful about having a little bit, too. And there's nothing wrong with having a little bit. You mentioned the bigger family thing. That's actually a good thought, 'cause sometimes we can feel, we can evaluate relationships and say well, me and you, we only have one kid, so we don't need to invite the family over that has four because they should do the opposite, like it's gonna be harder for us to accommodate a family of six because we're not used to that, so therefore, someone else should do it. But in reality, there's something beautiful about inviting that big family over because how often does that big family get invited to places? [Jennifer] That's true. [Aaron] We've actually had a situation in our own fellowship of big families saying we'd love to be invited over, we'd love to be thought of that way. [Jennifer] Yeah. So I have another example, when we were first married and we were in Christian community, we actually expected people to be hospitable to us because it was just us, and we could easily just come over and spend time with families. [Aaron] Yeah, we did have a one-way expectation. [Jennifer] We had a one-way expectation because we didn't have any kids and it was just easier, that we never invited really people over. I mean maybe a handful of times, but not-- [Aaron] Yeah, you're right. [Jennifer] Not very often. And I just thought about that just now, and so I just wanna encourage those listening who maybe they don't have kids, all the more be willing to open up what you do have and share that and build those relationships with people in a different life stage because there's good in all of it. God has created us to be able to encourage one another no matter where we are in our different life stages. [Aaron] Yeah and I think on the other side of that, we also didn't have much, we had not a lot of money, we didn't have a lot to give, we didn't have like, 20 plates and all these things, right? So we had this mentality of like, well since we have less, people that have more should take care of us. But Jesus points out the woman who gave her last mite, and he says she gave more, 'cause she gave out of her poverty, than that rich man who gave out of his wealth. And so there's something spiritually powerful about having the heart of hospitality even when you have little. [Jennifer] Yeah, and not letting expectations trip you up or stop you. [Aaron] No, but just out of a heart of like, God, I don't know how we're gonna bless these people but we'll share what we have. And invite someone, they may say no, but open up your home and open up what you have to other believers. And you never know, you might, we've seen this before. There was a time that me and you, I'm not trying to just toot our own horn, but we blessed a friend of ours who was in a much different financial situation than us, and it blew their mind. Because they're like, why would you give to us? We could've totally taken care of this and we're financially stable, when we were not in that place. And it actually totally ministered to them and showed them a level of generosity that's never been shown before to them. Just because we were obedient, we didn't think like, well they have enough, we don't need to help them. That's not how we were thinking. [Jennifer] No, we felt like God was telling us to do this and we were just trying to be obedient. [Aaron] Yeah, we were like hey let's bless so-and-so with this. And so the hospitality part of this is just a, it could be a powerful ministry tool to grow the Church, to build each other up. So why don't you do number five? [Jennifer] Okay, number five is be sacrificial. [Aaron] Which kinda ties in. [Jennifer] Yeah, I mean, I was telling Aaron, being sacrificial is kind of required with all of these. Whether it's time, energy, resources, whatever it is, but we just wanted to point out that a marriage after God, when it comes to their friendships and their married friends, they're sacrificial. They're available to other couples. They can be inconvenienced by them. [Aaron] Which is a sacrifice of our comfort. [Jennifer] And our time. [Aaron] Like getting a call in the middle of the night to help someone. Being up late with a couple to cry with them, to pray with them, to read to them, to support them. There's many ways, sacrificially, financially. Like oh, this person, so-and-so needs rent or groceries or whatever, or a date night. So yeah, just sacrificing our time for them, our talents, our energy, and just realizing that what God's given us isn't just for us, it's to be used for the body. [Jennifer] Yeah, John 15:13 says, "Greater love has no one than this, "than to lay down one's life for his friends." Are we doing that? [Aaron] Yeah, do we lay ourselves down or do we think like, well I would've done that but that was too inconvenient. [Jennifer] So I want those listening to do something real quick. Just the first couple that pops into your mind, your friends, your close friends-- [Aaron] Ooh, I like this. [Jennifer] Who are married, when was the last time you were sacrificial for them? That you expressed love in a sacrificial way? [Aaron] So just think about it, and then I would take it even a step further and say call them, text them. And as a couple, do something for them. [Jennifer] Find a way to love them. [Aaron] Yeah. Just go out of your way for that couple. [Jennifer] Okay, moving on to number six is pray for them and with them. [Aaron] Ooh. Praying for them's easy. [Jennifer] Sometimes not. [Aaron] I guess you're right, yeah. [Jennifer] Sometimes people struggle with prayer. But Aaron and I, a large portion of our ministry is to encourage you guys with prayer to pray, to be warriors of prayer, and this is important. [Aaron] I think of the scripture that says, it's the greatest commandment. The Pharisees came to Jesus and they said Jesus, what's the greatest commandment? And he tells them, he's like you tell me. And the Pharisee says to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself. And in that situation, the Pharisee challenged him and said well, who's my neighbor? Well, we know who our closest neighbors are, it's our spouse. And then our other neighbors are brothers and sisters in Christ. And then there's our physical neighbors that live nextdoor to us. So we know who our neighbors are. But loving your neighbor as yourself, how many listening wouldn't love someone to pray for them? We get messages all the time of saying could you pray for me? Can you pray for my marriage? So if you want to be prayed for and prayed over and prayed with and thought of in that way and taken care of in that way, then love your neighbor as yourself. [Jennifer] Yeah, be those people. [Aaron] Pray without ceasing for your brothers and sisters in Christ so that they won't stumble, so that they will be encouraged, so that they will be strong and walk in purity. And be encouraging in the word of God and strengthened to do ministry and be healed and blessed and like, all the things that you would wanna be prayed for, pray for them. [Jennifer] Yeah. And sometimes you can go out of your way to ask them hey, what do you need prayer for? Hey, I'm praying for you right now, what can I pray for you? Text them, ask them. You know? It's powerful. [Aaron] A pet peeve of mine is, and we all have done this, I'm gonna pray for you and then don't pray. So make it a point. I've made it a point any time I tell someone I'm gonna pray for them, if I text it, if I, I stop in that moment and I pray. [Jennifer] Yeah, me too. [Aaron] I've just made it a habit because I didn't wanna be that yeah, I'll pray for you and just, now it's now a phrase that we say. Of like, I'm thinking of you. No, let's be in prayer for each other, because this world is wicked and the enemy wants to destroy us and to steal from us, and we just need to be battling for each other. [Jennifer] I was just thinking like, there's a whole spiritual battle going on and obviously the enemy hates marriage because God created it and God loves it and God uses it-- [Aaron] He hates everything God made. [Jennifer] Yeah, which means that all of our marriages, not one of us is outside of this truth, and that is that our marriages are under attack constantly. [Aaron] Yeah, and our faith and this, and Christ's Church just as a whole. So we need to praying for each other. You know, you pray for us, we'd love that. Pray for our marriage. [Jennifer]Thanks. [Aaron] Pray for our children. Pray for our families. So prayer is one of the ways you can encourage your, oh and then praying for them, like with them. Be in the presence of your friends and say we're gonna pray for you right now. [Jennifer] Yeah, maybe when you have them over that week for dinner, just set some time aside to say hey, we'd love to pray for you. [Aaron] Speaking of prayer, I was just at a friend's house today and he was telling me how his wife's just dealing with headaches, and I said let's go pray for her. And so before I left, me and him went down and we prayed for her. [Jennifer] That's awesome. I didn't know that, that's cool. [Aaron] And why don't we do that more? Like, why don't I do that more? And I'm talking to myself right now. We need to get in a spiritual habit of just praying for each other. I think a lot of things would change in our marriages. [Jennifer] Okay, moving on to the last one, number seven. [Aaron] Serve your friends. Serve 'em. I think if the scenario that Jesus did when he was in the upper room before he went to go die on the cross and he geared up his garb, wrapped it around his waist, got a bucket of water and a towel and he walked around and he scrubbed all of his disciples' feet. And he says do this, what you see me doing, do for one another. So, do we serve each other? Now, speaking allegorically about the feet, are we willing to touch our friends' dirty feet? What I mean is like, are we willing to get dirty with our friends and get into the muck and the mire of life and the painful things and serve them? [Jennifer] I know you said this in the beginning, but had our friends not done that with us, the people who became our friends by serving us, if we didn't have that, we wouldn't be here today. [Aaron] And Jesus wants us to do that. He wants us to be willing to touch our brothers and sisters. Like spiritually, physically, emotionally, that we are part of their lives so close that, and for the purpose of cleaning and washing and purifying. [Jennifer] As you're saying that, cleaning and washing, I'm thinking like, we are all part of one body, okay, and if, let's take my body. My hands don't say I'm not gonna touch your hair, I'm not gonna wash your hair, and so I just go without washing my hair for a year, that would be really nasty. [Aaron] Yeah, if you had off-balance hygiene, you would not be approachable as a woman. [Jennifer] Well so take it in light of the body of Christ and his bride, who he's coming back for who should be spotless and blameless-- [Aaron] Is going to be. [Jennifer] And beautiful, then we should be willing to serve different parts of the body for this reason. [Aaron] And this doesn't mean that we serve the ones that can serve us back and serve the ones that we click well with and serve the ones who are easy to be around. We serve all of them. [Jennifer] So I keep going back to this picture of a body, I know it's funny, but-- [Aaron] That's what the Bible uses! [Jennifer] As you're talking I'm like you're right, so like, my hand can reach back and scratch my back but my back can't really do much for, [Aaron] Your back can't do much for-- [Jennifer] For anything. [Aaron] Yeah, your hands do that. [Jennifer] But it is holding me up, so. [Aaron] There you go. [Jennifer] This is just really interesting. [Aaron] But that's what we do, so are we servants? Are we servants? Christ, he says he didn't claim the royalty and the fame that he could've. Instead, he came as a servant, humble, as a child. [Jennifer] And the Bible tells us to walk as he walked. [Aaron] Yeah, so do we have that heart? Is our heart to lay ourselves down for our friends? [Jennifer] So hopefully those listening are just right along with us going yes, we're gonna serve our friends today. What are some practical ways? What does this look like, what are some ways that they can serve? 'Cause maybe they want to serve but now they're just wondering okay, how do we do that? What should they know? [Aaron] Well, I think of just some simple practical things, helping them. Do they need help with anything? [Jennifer] Well you have to know their needs. [Aaron] You have to know their needs. So shooting a text. Last year I tried getting in the habit of randomly texting friends from our community, just saying hey is there anything you need? Often they say no, but then there's time where they're like actually yeah, like we could use this or we really need a date. We've just been in the thick of having new children and we have not had a date in weeks. [Jennifer] So babysit your friends' kids so they can go have a date. [Aaron] Yeah. Maybe they're just, maybe there's some sickness. Hey, can we come over and just clean your house? Just wanna, we're gonna clean your house. You relax, we're gonna bring you food and I'm gonna scrub your toilets and I'm gonna clean your floorboards, and I'm gonna do your dishes, and just relax and you don't have to worry about it. Those are physical needs, those are just things that all of us would love. Like, if someone just came over and cleaned our house sometimes, I would be so-- [Jennifer] Or yard work. [Aaron] Or just came over and I'm like hey, so-and-so's in the backyard mowing the lawn. [Jennifer] Awesome. [Aaron] That would be so cool. [Jennifer] The other day, we've been trying to consider what we can do for our neighbors and how our neighbors are just right there-- [Aaron] Yeah, our actual neighbors that live nextdoor to us. [Jennifer] Every day, that we see. And we were leaving our house and there was a little bit of snow that piled up on the driveway, and one of our nextdoor neighbors was push brooming the snow out of another neighbor's driveway, she's an elderly woman, and I just thought how cool, he's amazing. Like, way to go. And that inspired Aaron to then go to her nextdoor neighbor and do the same thing for her. [Aaron] Well, you did actually encourage me to do it, which is good 'cause we're a team. And I went over there and it took me 20 minutes to go sweep her, the snow off of her driveway, and it's another elderly lady, and she was actually walking out to go to her mail and it was, her driveway was so slippery. [Jennifer] Oh, really? [Aaron] Yeah, and so I was like hey, can I just take this to the mailbox for you? It was like, right across the street and she was like yeah, absolutely. It was awesome. It was just a little thing. [Jennifer] So when we serve people like this, it brings blessing for those who are on the receiving end, but it also sets an example. It inspires people, it makes others want to do nice things and be thoughtful and serve and be the hands and feet of Christ. So I think that all around, it's so important to be servants. [Aaron] So I just wanna end with one more scripture to close out this topic before we pray for them, and it's the reason why we would want to do any of this stuff for brothers and sisters in Christ. For our married couples that we're friends with, for those that love God and are part of the body. In John 13:35 it says, "By this, all people will know "that you are my disciples "if you have love for one another." And in first John, John says, "Do not love "in words only, but in deed and in truth." So we show our love by the things we do for each other. And that kinda love should be so supernatural that when the world sees how we love each other, they will know that we're disciples of Christ. [Jennifer] That's good. [Aaron] And in John 17, Jesus says, "The world will know "that God sent me by the love you have for each other." So not only will they know we're disciples of Christ, they'll also know that God sent Jesus. [Jennifer] So we have to be doing this. [Aaron] It's the ministry that we have in the world. [Jennifer] It's the ministry. [Aaron] It's what our whole book's about, actually. [Jennifer] Yes, yeah. Which, a great-- [Aaron] Not to plug it, but I'm plugging it. [Jennifer] No, but since you went there I'm just gonna say, it comes out in June, you guys, and a great way to encourage your married friends is go through this book with them. [Aaron] Ooh, that's a cool idea. [Jennifer] I know they can't do it now, we're gonna be going through a series leading up to the book launch, but I just feel like if couples can be going through this book together and asking each other questions about it and saying what ministry are we doing for God's kingdom? Oh my gosh, I just, my mind is blown by just-- [Aaron] The movement that would start. [Jennifer] Yeah! Yeah, it's incredible. [Aaron] We're excited about it. We thank you for joining us today. I pray that these seven ways to encourage your married friends blessed you, and I pray that it charges you or excites you or it gets you moving in the direction of unity in the body. More and more marriages and Christians in general would just be unified in loving each other in this way. [Jennifer] And don't wait. It's not next week or the week after-- [Aaron] Today. [Jennifer] Start today! Just do it. [Aaron] Alright, so before we close out, we've been committed to praying for you at the end of each episode, and so we're gonna pray for you. [Jennifer] Dear Lord, thank you for the friends in our lives. Lord, give us a heart of encouragement for them. Give us words that will affirm them and give strength to their marriage relationship. Show us how we can love our friends better and help them know You more. May we be witnesses in this world by how we love one another and walk with each other in truth and in light. Help us be more vulnerable and open with our friends. Help us to create an environment where our friends feel safe being vulnerable and open with us. May we use what You have given to us to bless them. Inspire our hearts with creative ways we can serve them and confidence that our purpose as friends builds Your kingdom. Please keep the enemy and his evil schemes away from our friends. Do not let his plans of destruction prevail. Protect our friends' marriage and fortify them, O Lord. Give us hearts to see our married friends walk strong and faithful. In Jesus' name, amen. [Aaron] Amen. Alright, so we thank you for joining us this week, and we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

Some stories of joy in our home with practical tips to cultivate a habit of joy in our homes. Support This podcast by purchasing one of our marriage books today: https://shop.marriageaftergod.com READ: [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] Today we're gonna talk about the strength that joy brings to our home. Welcome to the Marriage After God Podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] So far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With a desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe the Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life. Love. And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. Together. Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. Thank you so much for joining us this week on the Marriage After God Podcast. If you've been enjoying this podcast and enjoying the content, would you just scroll to the bottom of the app and leave a star rating review? This just helps other people find the Marriage After God Podcast, and we'd really appreciate that. [Aaron] Also, if you wanna support our podcast, we don't really do ads. We may in the future, but our goal is to not do ads. One of our ways of not using ads to support the podcast is we have written books, and we sell those books. If you're interested in checking out our marriage resources, our prayer books, our devotionals, you can go to shop.marriageaftergod.com, and picking up a book from our store supports us in the production of this podcast. Also, our Marriage After God book, that comes out next year, is available for pre-order, and so if you go to shop.marriageaftergod.com you'll see, in the very top-left corner of the site, a way to pre-order our book. That would just be really awesome. We'd really appreciate that. Let's get into the icebreaker question, which is what is one funny memory from when we were dating? [Jennifer] Hmm. I can't think of a specific one at the moment, but what does come to mind is we spent a lot of time serving in youth ministry. Oh yeah. A lot of time. We were youth leaders. Yeah, and we... [Aaron] At good old Church on the Hill, Norco, California. [Jennifer]We played a lot of games. We laughed a lot. We ate weird things. We'd have contests and challenges, and there were just things that we did for the kids' sake, but we had a lot of fun doing together. That was-- Remember the lock-ins? We would just have overnights. Yup, over-nighters. [Aaron] We would stay up all night, do milk-chugging contests, and... [Jennifer] Gosh, that does not sound fun now. [Aaron] No it doesn't How did we do that? Back then, it was the highlight of our week. I feel like we just came alive in those times. We looked forward to it all year, to do those events. Yeah. Every Wednesday we just came alive during that time, and I fell in love with you, knowing that you had fun participating in that way, being silly... Little junior high kids and high school kids. Yeah, being silly or playing, it wasn't dodge-ball, what was it called? [Aaron] Oh, what... [Jennifer] Murder-ball? [Aaron]Yeah, we called it murder-ball. [Jennifer] We called it murder-ball because it was-- It was just dodge-ball, but we changed the name. ...dodge-ball on steroids, and we had a lot of balls-- There was no line. You just ran around the room, throwing balls at each other. [Jennifer] You guys would throw them so hard. These poor-- I know [Jennifer] ...13-year-old girls would get nailed [Aaron] But they kept playing it. None of them cried. They were crazy. I forgot about that. Murder-ball I loved that. I loved dating you because you were fun, and you're still fun. Yeah. I got a little not fun over the years, but I've learned to change in that area. I'm still learning, but that's kinda what our episode's about, is not just fun, but joy, but how fun cultivates joy and how we can actually cultivate environments of joy in our home. Let's get to the quote from today, and it's from the book For Better or for Kids by Patrick and Ruth Schwenk. Ruth Schwenk's from The Better Mom, and you said you loved this book. Mm-hmm It's about family and the power that God's given us in our homes. [Jennifer] Yeah, and the quote is on page 37, and it says, "While married life with children "can be challenging, we have reason to hope "and to be encouraged. "There is a way forward, a way through, "and a way beyond all of the craziness. "God's Word has not changed. "The promises of his Word still stand. "Is being married with kids messy? "Yes. "Does God have a purpose and plan in the midst of it all? "Of course he does. "And do we enjoy taking part in this crazy, "life-changing, impossible mission of parenting? "Absolutely." That's great 'cause that sums it up pretty good. Parenting's hard. It is crazy. Marriage and parenting is hard. [Jennifer] It is messy. It's all of the above, and yet, God's Word-- But joy. ...still stands. Yeah. And we can enjoy it. And we can enjoy it, which is something that we're learning day-by-day how to do. Mm-hmm We've talked about kids a lot on our show and just the hard things and the fun things, but today we wanna talk about joy, cultivating joy in our home, having fun in our home, and how that joy brings strength to our home and our walk and our mission in life. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think that sometimes we can be so caught up in making sure that everything that we're trying to order or manage is happening, and we become kind of like the officers in the home of making sure everyone's doing what they're supposed to be doing. Even when it comes to our work, we have this rigid schedule of things that we need to get done, and it's kind of on our timeline, and yet we have kids pulling on our elbows, saying, "Dad, come check out this LEGO thing I built," or Olive wanting to dance with you. Where life becomes more mechanical and clunky rather than organic. It's life. It's something that we're experiencing, not controlling. That's kinda what I'm hearing. That's what I'm feeling, is we could get into this mode that life's just one check list after another, one check box after another, the right next step, which is not-- It comes from a good place. [Aaron] Yeah, it's not terrible to think that way at times and to try and walk correctly, 'cause that's the goal, is we're trying to walk well. We're trying to walk as disciples of Christ, living out what the Bible tells us. Then, where's joy? Where's joy fall in all that? Yeah. We actually, I was really encouraged this last week in the woman's Bible study that I got to go to. The whole topic was about soul-filling joy and the things that we can do as moms to fill our hearts up during the week and, like you said, not just have a list that we're checking off, even though that comes from a good place and we want to make sure that we're managing our homes well, but are we doing things that also fill us up and bring a smile to our face? Because that's gonna overflow into our relationship with our kids. It's gonna overflow into our marriages and give that liveliness that God intends for us to have. [Aaron] What you're saying reminds me of the verse in Isaiah 40:31. It says, "But they who wait for the Lord "shall renew their strength. "They shall mount up with wings like eagles. "They shall run and not be weary. "They shall walk and not faint." [Jennifer] Yeah. I've experienced this in my own life, where I do something that brings a lot of joy to my life, and it does renew my strength. There is something physical that happens to you when you experience the joy of the Lord and you experience his strength fill you up and renew you, and I think that's why it's so important to be talking about joy. Have you experienced this? [Aaron] Yeah, 'cause we can get, if we look at our life as just a series of actions taken, a series of checks to be checked off, steps to take, and it's just this mechanical thing that we're moving forward and yeah, maybe we're doing good things, but if we forget why we're doing it and who we're doing it for, it gets very tiresome because essentially, we're doing it in our own strength. We run on fumes. We're told to fill our jars up to overflowing, and we fill that up with the living water, which is Christ, with the Word of God, with prayer, with getting away, quietness. When the Bible talks of prayer, when Jesus says pray, he says go into your closet. He says get away. When I think about getting away, Jesus often got away. It says that he went up by himself into desolate placesand he, early in the morning and late into the evening, so I just-- But he was intentional with his time. Yeah. It wasn't just, "I'm gonna go and be quiet somewhere," which actually, for some people is probably really filling for them, just being quiet somewhere, sitting at a park, people watching or something. Not me. This isn't just about doing something that's fun necessarily. It's a wholistic view of waiting on God because we know that we need him. We need a rest in him, and that gives us strength, and it gives us joy and the power to go on another day, not just go on but to cheerfully and joyfully go on. [Jennifer] I feel like we all need to be reminded that there's gonna, in life, we will all experience hard times. We will all experience those-- [Aaron] Yeah, James makes that very clear Yeah, those times of wrestling, where God's revealed sin in your life that you're repenting of, and you probably feel down for, but you know you're being transformed in-- [Aaron] Or when he's calling out character issues in us, really hard things. Character issues, maybe financial stresses, or maybe the loss of a loved one, there are so many different types of trials that people walk through, and yet I feel like just because we experience hard times doesn't mean we can also experience joy. I think that's the difference between happiness and joy because happiness is a feeling, and it's an emotion that we have the... Capacity to experience. Right, thank you That's a byproduct of joy, I would imagine. Right, joy's deeper. Joy comes from within, but it's also because God is in our hearts, and he's the one that makes it possible to both enjoy, he's the one that makes it possible to experience joy while in the midst of hardship, at the exact same time. Maybe there isn't any hardship in your life right now, and you, like you said earlier, are just kind of going through the motions and being kind of mechanical-- I actually feel like sometimes when we're going through good seasons, or easy seasons I should say, often, we find ourselves being more discontent. It's easier to forget to walk in joy or something. I've experienced that with us. That's interesting. I realize, I'm like, "Well, there's nothing really hard "going on in our life. "Why are we feeling like this right now?" [Jennifer] In today's episode, we really just wanna inspire you guys to consider joy. Maybe it's something that you haven't thought of, or maybe it's something that you've already been thinking of, and we can just come in as part of that support to say, "Yes, this is the right way. "This is what we should be thinking about. "This is what we should be doing" because a marriage after God has joy. [Aaron] When you walk in the Spirit, what's one of the fruits of the Spirit? Joy. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, and so, when we walk in the Spirit, fruit of that will be joy in our life. I was just thinking about the difference between happiness and joy. I feel like happiness is an earthly experience that comes out of the eternal understanding of joy. Joy is an eternal concept. It comes from hope, hopes of things that are things that are unseen. It's something that goes beyond the current experience because you can have joy even in really hard things because it's based on something eternal, where happiness is based on something temporary. That's good. Something that we experience just right now for this moment. Our goal should never be just seeking happiness. That's called hedonism, just looking for happiness. Our goal should be enjoying the fruit of the Spirit, which one of them is joy. [Jennifer] What I was gonna say was that it benefits our children so much. I was just thinking about how you could just, I feel like kids are so expressive. Their little bodies can reveal so much about what they're feeling, that joy is just one of those things that you can see in kids. It's so evident. Yeah, I wonder how many of our listeners grew up in joyless homes, grew up in homes that were full of strife, anxiety, fear, and how much joy would've benefited the home. They're probably thinking right now, "Man, "I wish my family was joyful. "I wish when I grew up I experienced joy." [Jennifer] If that's you listening right now, I just wanna tell you that you don't have to live according to the past and feel like you're stuck. You can change. [Aaron] Today, we talked about this last episode, you can change today [Jennifer] What a benefit it would be, what a testimony it would be to the power of God in your life. [Aaron] In our home, like I said, over the years, I kind of, there was a season of my life that, and it was probably because of sin I was walking. It was probably 'cause of discontentment issues that we had, character flaws, things that God was growing in us, but I feel like I had a hard time having fun. I had a hard time being joyful. I loved God, and there was times I was joyful, but it wasn't a default state for me. I was pretty Scrooge-y. Is that the word? Not just because Christmas is coming, but just I think people called me Scrooge-y just 'cause I was not very joyful. I don't want that for my family. What are some ways that we over the years have been cultivating joy in our home and that our listeners can take home and try? [Jennifer] We should just tag-team this and kind of go down the list of things, but-- This isn't the definitive list. I actually tried coming up with as many as I could, but I'm sure there's other things that we might think of as we talk about these. [Jennifer] Probably. We do have, we're in a season of young kids, and so a lot of what you probably will hear probably sounds, I don't know... Silly? Silly, 'cause it is. They are silly [Jennifer] They are silly, but I think the important thing to note here is that these are just ways that we have tried to be intentional in cultivating a space in our home, in our lifestyle, that cultivates joy. One of those things is fort building. I actually did that this morning with the kids. [Aaron] The kids love it. We have a couch that's perfect for fort building. The pillows are huge. They're sturdy, so they make really good roofs and walls. I only believe in building big forts. I don't know why people build small forts. It's not worth it to me. I came home the other day-- Go big or go home [Aaron] I came home the other day, and the entire living room was a fort. [Jennifer]You have to use every chair, every blanket-- All the chairs ...every pillow... The couches were on their sides, the pillows-- Maximize the-- [Aaron] ...were stacked up high, and you guys were watching a movie inside We were watching a movie inside, yeah. You're like, "We're in our movie theater. "You wanna come in?" I'm like, "Uh, I don't know if I'll fit," but it was pretty huge, so I probably would've. It was pretty amazing. I think I actually storied it on Instagram 'cause it was-- Probably. [Aaron] I was really impressed with that fort building. Thanks. That's one thing that we do. The kids love it, and it's fun because they're still pretty young. They could build one themselves, but they never make them as good as we make them. [Jennifer] A little tip for fort building, if you get a colorful quilt or one of those knitted blankets that are made-- Have holes in them. [Jennifer] Yeah, they're just really fun for the light to come through, and-- [Aaron] It looks like stained glass windows. It does. I always say, "Look at the stained glass windows." [Jennifer] You need to share the one minute of crazy 'cause this is more new. This is a newer thing. But it works. It's our one minute of crazy, and we've been doing it, we don't do it every night, of course, but when I feel like my kids just got extra jitters in them-- Or extra screams. [Aaron] ...what I'll do is I'll say, "Okay guys, I want everyone to," I'll be a little stern about it, "I want everyone to stand right here in a line." They stand there, they're like, "Okay, what's gonna happen?" Then I'll turn the music on our jam box really loud, and I'll say, "All right, I want you guys "to get as crazy as possible for one minute." Then the whole time, I'm telling them to get louder and louder and louder, and they're screaming, and they get actually tired. When they're done, they're like, "Why'd you have us do that?" I'm was like, "Wasn't that fun?" The first time you had them do it, it took them about 15 seconds to, is Dad joking, or-- Yeah, they didn't know. [Jennifer] They're looking at each other, like, "Should we be screaming?" [Aaron] That's probably because of my history of not being very fun. It was awesome. Yeah, but it did take them a few seconds to actually, they're like, 'Wait a minute, are we gonna get in trouble?" [Jennifer] It's a great thing to do, not right before bed, but leading up to bedtime. [Aaron] I liked it right before bed because I feel like they weren't quite ready for bed, and this pushed them over the edge 'cause they were tired, and they also felt like they got all of it out of them. Sometimes it's hard to calm them down afterwards, but that's okay [Jennifer] I wanna share another one. This comes from my childhood. My mom and stepdad would always do this. They still do it. It's so funny. If someone comes home and walks through the door, or even out from the bathroom or bedroom-- Is this where it came from? Yeah. Oh. [Jennifer] Whoever notices it goes, "Quick, pretend you're asleep" Wherever they're sitting. Wherever you're at, just kinda drop your head, close your eyes, and try as hard as you can not to smile. [Aaron] Wyatt is so bad at it. Wyatt's our two-year-old. He just turned two. But he still tries, and it's so cute. He'll be in his little white chair, and I'll walk in, and everyone's got their heads tilted to the side with their eyes shut-- [Jennifer] Sometimes we'll be at the kitchen table, and we'll be eating breakfast when Aaron comes home, and I'm like, "Quick, pretend you're asleep," and everyone just kind of limps their head to the side. But then, I look over, and Wyatt, he has his head back-- He's just looking at you. He has his head back, and his eyes half shut, and he's smiling 'cause he doesn't get it, but he's trying. I'm like, "Are you guys sleeping?" And Wyatt's smiling at me the whole time. [Jennifer] This is one of those things, I love it 'cause it's from my childhood, so I love that my kids have kind of owned it. Olive is usually the first one now to say it. Oh yeah. "Pretend you're sleeping." [Aaron] "Quick, we're sleeping," and then everyone, she'll put her head down even if no one notices. She gets mad if you don't, no she gets mad if you don't do it. [Aaron] She does it so fast, no one notices, and she is the only one pretending to sleep. It's really funny 'cause then, let's say Dad walks through the door, "Oh no, everyone fell asleep," or we get up really fast and go, "Boo!" It's just fun. Yeah, on the same note of the spontaneous sleeping, the narcolepsy game, we'll often do, I'll get home early after the gym or something, and it'll be super quite in the house, and I think everyone's asleep. I'm tippy-toeing, and I get in the bedroom, and every-- There's just a mountain under the bed. Yeah, and every single person in my family is under the covers in my bed. They're all hiding from me and What's funny, even once the blanket goes over our heads-- I almost jumped on Elliot the other day 'cause I didn't know he was in the bed. Even Truett will be laying there, and the moment the blanket goes over his head, he kinda gets all wide-eyed and smiley-- Like, "What's happening?" Yeah, what's happening. Those are just fun ways to bring instantaneous giggles. And they're short things, they're easy things, and it's something that, they become part of our family, these little things. Our kids look forward to it. They're the ones that instigate all of these things now. Another little tip to help cultivate joy in the home is to not worry about messes so much. That doesn't mean that we don't clean up and have organization and self control, which is something Jennifer and I are trying to get better at, being organized and clean in our house, but if we're always trying to be tidy, it really doesn't leave any room for fun. [Jennifer] We're gonna miss those opportunities where, maybe one of the kids is playing with LEGOs and would love some help, or wants to just get creative with you-- [Aaron] Or throwing pillows around the house for a little bit, or having blankets on, like forts. You can't have it both ways. [Jennifer] We built a fort this morning, like I said, and it's middle of the day right now, it's nap time, and-- And it's still messy out there It's all messed up. It's all messed up. It's one of those things where it's like, "Well, maybe they'll build another one later," and that has to be okay. [Aaron] Something I've realized is that if I'm always telling the kids to clean up, they're actually not gonna like doing some of those fun things. Now, there's a time for everything, so let our kids know that there's a time to clean up. After we've had a full amount of fun or something, they understand that, "Okay, now let's straighten up "'cause we're gonna go on to the next thing," but just kind of not having the anxieties and the overwhelmedness of those little messes, that it's gotta be okay. It's just a good little tip to have a little bit more freedom and lightheartedness in the home. [Jennifer] Good word. Another one is dance parties. We like to turn the music up really loud and just go for it. You guys don't know this about me, but-- Our kids are the best dancers I was gonna say I'm actually probably one of the most terrible dancers, but it doesn't hold me back. I just go for it, and somehow, my kids have picked up on this, and they intend to dance crazy, silly, awkward, and that just makes us laugh even more. If you'd like to see Jennifer dance, leave us a review and tell us that you'd like to see her dance, and I'll post a video of her on our Instagram. Oh my goodness, don't even. Yeah, I'm gonna put some music to it, and you're gonna be dancing 'cause they gotta see. They gotta see the gloriousness that is your dance skills. [Jennifer] Oh, man. I gotta think about that. A lot of these other ones are very physical things, like tickling, spontaneous wrestling matches with Dad. [Aaron] Usually spurred on by my son, who hides, crouching, ready to attack, and the moment I come home, he just jumps out of nowhere onto me with a sword in his hand, but letting those things happen, I think it does huge things for our children, to know that they have the freedom to, of course, not hurt us, which happens sometimes, but just, that they have the freedom to jump on us and to climb on us and to crawl on us. This morning, Olive was, I was talking to you, and she was grabbing my legs and going in and out of my legs, and I didn't notice she was doing it for a while. Like a cat [Aaron] Then I finally was like, "Olive, what are you doing?" 'Cause I felt like I was falling over, and she's like, "I'm just playing with your legs," and she's going in and out and sitting on them and pushing me over, and I for a moment wanted to be bothered by it. Then I thought to myself, "Why do I care "that she's doing that to me right now? "It's really cute." It's something that I still have to consistently work on and recognize in me 'cause I wanna sometimes get bothered by those kinds of things, but letting it happen because I want my kids to know that they can touch me. They can crawl on me. They can hang on me. They can love me. I was actually just really inspired by someone I follow on Instagram. Her name is Joy, and she posted a picture of her two oldest kids. They're in their teens, and her little story caption was just to encourage other moms with little ones to listen to your kids when they come to tell you about what they created with LEGOs or what they're drawing or imaginary world or whatever it is-- Taking joy in their creations, their things. She said because it goes by so fast, and we know we all hear this, but she goes, "You're gonna want to hear from them "and their hard things that they're walking through "when they're older, and if you keep pushing them away "or keep saying, 'No, I don't have time for that' now, "you're gonna miss that opportunity." You wouldn't have built that trust and open lines of communication, even at a very, very young age. Hopefully that encourages someone else. [Aaron] It encourages me, that I need to be listening more and paying attention to my kids more. Again, there's always a balance. Our kids can't absorb every-- Everything. [Aaron] ...everything from us. When we are intentional with it, it'll make the times that we can't okay 'cause they'll know that our hearts are with them. [Jennifer] Right. I'd really love to talk a little bit about just experiencing joy in marriage between a husband and a wife, but before we get there, there's one more thing that, when I was thinking about this list, that really stood out to me, and it's ways that we can kind of team up together to bring joy to our kids 'cause all the things that we've kinda listed we could do without the other. Right. But this next one's pretty interesting. This is your idea, or mine, I can't remember, but we were standing in the kitchen talking, and the kids were in the school room, and I told you, I said, "Aaron, call them out." I had handfuls of marshmallows in my hand, and I-- We both did, yeah. I was one one side-- I gave you the bag, ...of the hallway-- and you took the bag from me, took a handful out, and we hid on either side of the walls, so that when we came through the hallway, we were gonna just launch all these marshmallows at them. I was like, "Elliot, "Olive, Wyatt, come here." Plus, it's also a good lesson in obedience, are they coming the first time they're being called? You're killing two birds with one stone. [Aaron] Then they pitter-patter down the hallway, and we're hiding on the floor so they don't see us, and they walk right past us. Then we just bombard them with marshmallows. It actually scared them, and they looked at us like-- They just stood there. They looked at us like, "How could you do that?" [Jennifer] They just stood there, and Olive had this furrowed brow, and she was ready to just reprimand us, and then-- Then they looked on the ground, they're like, "Are those marshmallows?" "Can we have those?" "Can we have those?" Then they just start squirming. [Aaron] Luckily, marshmallows don't hurt. If you're gonna do that game, throw things that don't hurt at your kids. Otherwise, that would not be very fun. [Jennifer] We have other friends that intentionally do Nerf wars together. Oh yeah. We actually thought about one time buying a bunch of a Nerf stuff, and then-- Getting that family that does that Yeah, not letting them know, and then when we go over for dinner, just attack them We should still do that. We should still do, well, they might listen to this episode now. Now, I have to do it before we launch this episode. [Jennifer] That's just one way that you can team up together to cultivate joy in the home. We wanna hear your guys' ideas too, so please share them. [Aaron] Yeah, and all of these things that you can do, like little things just compounding on top of each other, it shows your family, especially for the husbands out there who might struggle the way I do to be joyful or have this fun-loving spirit or a lighthearted spirit, it shows your children, it shows your wife that you enjoy them, that you like being around them, that they're not just in the way of you, that you enjoy having crazy time with them, having fun time with them. [Jennifer] Yeah, that you wanna hear them laugh, that you wanna participate in their life. We touched on how to cultivate joy in the family, especially with small kids, but Aaron, how would you say we cultivate joy within the marriage and why that's important? [Aaron] Again, walking with the right perspective, first of all, that we have a mission in this world, that God loves us, that we're saved, these big things that God's done for us, easily just allows us to have joy even in the midst of hard things, even when maybe you're not joyful, I can still walk in that stuff, so when we're walking in that together, that knowledge and that truth, there's naturally a joy that exists. On the practical side, I think there's probably a ton of things that we do that cultivate joy, probably things that we could add to our lives. One of them is we have our own set of inside jokes that no one knows about. When you're with-- I'm not gonna describe what they are because they're ours but we have our own little inside jokes, and that's something that we do together, and it's funny for us. It's fun for us. Those build over time, so if you're only one or two years married, just know that those come over time. Maybe you already have some, but those are a really fun way to just, when you're out and about or at church, or-- At any time, really At any time, you can make these jokes, and only they get it. It's pretty fun. Yeah, it's something unique to us. Yeah, something you said about having joy, one of the importance of that is even amidst walking through hard stuff, and I feel like when I look at our marriage, experiencing joy with you was possible even in those first few years, which were our hardest years of marriage, and that was one of the things that carried us through those hard years, was finding ways to cultivate joy in our relationship, exploring new places together, trying to get each other to laugh. [Aaron] Yeah, I realize when we weren't lovers, in those early years, we were friends still, not all the time, but we had a friendship. We had things that we can connect with still and cultivate. God wanted more from us, but in those times, I remember when we were in Malawi, Africa, and it's been hard, and we walked off and we sat on a pier over the lake. Remember that? Mm-hmm, there's a gazebo at the end. [Aaron] Yeah, and we were just sitting there, talking, looking at the fish, talking about being married, talking about if we'd ever come back. [Jennifer] Yeah, we talked about our future. [Aaron] Yeah we talked about our future. Those little things on our list up there, we didn't talk about it, but adventures, that's another way we cultivate joy in our family and in our marriage, is we take adventures, even when we're not with the kids. Me and you like to just go for a drive around neighborhoods we've never been in before, going up the mountain just to drive up the mountain. There's things that we do that give us opportunities to just talk. I think those are situations that cultivate joy in us because it's just us together. It's just us spending time with each other, talking, hearing each other. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think another practical way to do this is, again, physical touch, just like when we were talking about with the kids, but tickling each other, hugging each other. Massages. Massages. Dancing. That's joyful for me. [Jennifer] I'm giving Aaron the eyes 'cause that sounded creepy, but just being physical, being willing to tickle each other and-- And play with each other, yeah. And play, yeah. I like the-- We're a lot more playful with each other these days than we used to be. [Jennifer] Yeah, I like the keep away game, where you snag something, like their phone works really well for this, and then you have to try and get it. Yeah, if you wanna know how addicted someone is to their phone, just snag it out of their hands and see how they respond. Wait, that's joyful? I just think about the lightness. We've had seasons where it just feels like we're walking on eggshells with each other, and that's not fun, where you're tippy-toeing around your spouse, and you're just wondering if the next thing you do is gonna trigger them. That's the opposite of joy. Yeah. [Aaron] That is not joyful. That is tedious and cumbersome. If your spouse can feel light around you and free around you. And feel loved. [Aaron] And cherished around you and loved around you, how much strength there is in that, and power there is in that, and that's what I want because again, we're always talking about being a marriage after God. There's a reason we're together. It's for the ministry God has for us, and if you're constantly feeling like you have to be so aware of every move you make around me because you're just wondering if you're gonna trigger me, there's no way you can minister for Christ in that kind of situation. There's no way we as a family can show the world the love we have for each other, which is what we're called to do, right? Mm-hmm [Aaron] Now, that's not just talking about in marriage. That's talking about in the church as a whole, but joy remedies that. It cultivates an environment that allows for true and powerful and authoritative ministry to happen. [Jennifer] Joy is one of those testimonies of the power of God in your life, and I know I said that earlier, but it's so true, that when the world looks at you, when the world looks at a marriage after God and they see joy, they're probably thinking, "Well, I want "what they have." Yeah, "How do I get "some of that?" [Jennifer] "What is that?" Then you get to tell them, "It's because of Jesus in my life. "It's because God has transformed us. "It's because God gives us hope." [Aaron] Yup. I hope those listening get encouraged by this, that, of course, we're still learning, but if they put their hearts in the right place, they put it in the hands of Christ and allow him to transform them and say, "Lord, I want more joy. "I want more of your joy, "and I want my family to experience joy," it all goes back to walking in the Spirit and saying, "Lord, help me walk in the Spirit today. "I want my kids to feel the overflow of joy in my life. "I want my wife, I want my husband, "to feel that, to experience that joy, "to eat the good fruit coming out of me, "and then in our marriage, I want people, our children, "outsiders to eat the good fruit of our marriage," and at the end of the day, that joy becomes our strength. I just wanna read that scripture in Nehemiah chapter 8. Nehemiah had just finished building the wall, the walls around the city, and Ezra the priest got up on a platform, and he read the entire book of the law out loud, from day till night, to all of the congregation of the people. Nehemiah says this to the people after all of this, it says, "Then he said to them," in chapter 8, verse 10: "'Go your way. "'Eat the fat and drink the sweet wine "'and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready, "'for this day is holy to our Lord. "'And do not be grieved, for the joy "'of the Lord is your strength.'" This people, they were scattered, they were dispersed, the city was destroyed. Nehemiah came, rebuilt the city and was about to, and he had all the people coming back to the city to rebuild their own homes, to rebuild this city with a people that God promised it would be their city, it would be their home, and he just reminds them, he says, "The joy of the Lord is your strength." The strength in our home, the strength in our lives is the Lord. The strength in our marriage. The strength in our marriage, the strength in our ministry, and that strength comes from the joy that God gives us, from the hope we have in Christ, from the power and the authority of the Word of God, and that joy is the thing that just allows us to keep going, keeping walking. Instead of it being mechanical, instead of it being a checklist, it's now a life-giving thing we do. I think that's awesome. Yeah, I love that. My grandma Betty, she is 91 and just right there at the end of her life, and my dad posted a quote, something that she always said, which was, "Make someone laugh every day, "and life will be full." When I think about her life, I think about it being really full. Yeah, every time we're around her, she's big ol' smile, laughing, making jokes. Huge smile. Just for a little description, she's probably only five foot, maybe five-foot-one with heels on, and she wore colorful dresses. She had bright red hair and always wore blue eyeshadow, and when I think of her, I think of fun. I remember being a little girl, maybe four years old, I would go over to her house when my dad brought us over there to visit, and about 10 minutes before we would leave, she would say, "Jenn, come with me." She'd take me to her vanity and put perfume on me and eyeshadow and blush and did the whole thing-- Make you feel so pretty. ...make me feel like a princess, and the whole time just talking to me, and encouraging me, and loving on me, and I can't imagine what I looked like to everyone walking out as a little four-year-old with this makeup on, if she even really put make up on me. Remember, she liked to have fun I know. When I think about that little girl, when I think about myself, if I stood in front of her today, I would think there was no question about the joy that I had in my heart from just that experience with her, those five minutes, or 10 minutes, or however long it was, of sitting in her chair and listening to her voice and being there with me. I just love that, and I want, at the end of my life, to look back and think, "That was a full life." [Aaron] Yeah, and I want people to look back on my life, or our life, and say, "Wow, they were joyful," right? Mm-hmm [Aaron] I don't want them to think, "Man, they were bitter and frustrated all the time "and annoyed." I want them to say, "They were joyful." Joy's a powerful thing. What's funny is all of the fruit of the Spirit is powerful. It's why-- We need it [Aaron] We need the Spirit, is because it produces such good things in us. I just pray that this encourages the listeners today that they would pursue joy, that they would walk in the Spirit, and that they would cultivate an environment in their home that their kids just know what joy is. It doesn't mean we're not gonna have hard times, but it does mean that we can have pure, eternal joy, something that's founded in something in eternity, not in something that is temporary. [Jennifer] I love that. Speaking of prayer, I think that now is a perfect time to go into our prayer for today's episode. We'd love to invite you guys to pray along with us. [Aaron] Dear Lord, thank you for the gift of joy. We pray that we would be intentional to cultivate joy in our marriages and in our families. Holy Spirit, please inspire us with creative ways to create space in our lives to laugh, to play, to enjoy precious moments with those we love most. Remind use every day of the power of joy and how we can be vessels of your joy, so that it is dispersed throughout the world. May our joy be a testimony to others of your goodness and your strength in our lives. May it be the reason people ask us why we are so different from the rest of the world. May our joy draw our spouse, our children, and others close to you as we experience the gift of joy. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. [Aaron] We just thank you for joining us this week. We pray that you have joy this week. We pray that you would walk in the Spirit, and we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

Let's be faithful with the small things so that we will be faithful in the big things. Consider supporting this podcast by visiting our online store today. https://shop.marraigeaftergod.com READ: [Aaron] Hey we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna talk about how being faithful in the little things will prepare us for the big things. [Aaron] Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life. [Aaron] Love. [Jennifer] And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Thank you guys so much for joining us on today's episode. We just wanna take a minute to just encourage you to leave a star rating review, this just helps other listeners find our podcast. And we're just eager to get this message out. So please take a minute just to leave that star rating, and also if you have time and some extra love, you can leave a written review. That also just really encourages our hearts, lets people know what this podcast is about, and again just spreads that love out into the internet. [Aaron] Also if you've been really loving the podcast and the content, one way you can support this podcast is by purchasing one of our books. You know my wife and I, we've written 11 books now, going on 12. Our twelfth one comes out next year in June. And you can just head over to shop.marriageaftergod.com, and pick up our prayer books, our 30 day marriage devotionals. You can look at all the products we have. And we even have prayer books for children, too. You pray for your son, pray for your daughter. They've been a really popular book. So if you wanna support our podcast please consider going over to shop.marriageaftergod.com when you're done with this podcast. [Jennifer] Okay, so we are going to start off with an icebreaker, we did this last week, it was fun. So Aaron, I'm gonna ask you the first question, and then I guess we'll just tag team it, and then I can answer after you. So it is, what is one habit that you would like to create in your life right now? [Aaron] I would like to get better at reading the Bible more consistently. I'm just gonna be honest. [Jennifer] Okay. [Aaron] I used to be, have it at a specific time every day and I've just kind of gotten out of sync with that. So I'd like to get into a better habit of digging into the word of God. [Jennifer] Okay. And I would answer that by just saying working out. I feel like after I had Truett, you know you wait that kind of post-partum period, six weeks or so out. And then I started feeling really good and I added in one day a week. And now I'm looking for more. So just finding a consistent schedule for that would be really awesome. [Aaron] That's a good habit, yeah. [Jennifer] Well you encourage me. [Aaron] Thank you. [Jennifer] We're gonna share a little more about that later, but you've been in a good habit of that. [Aaron] Okay, so before I move onto the main topic I just wanna read a quote from a book I'm reading right now called the Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg. Habits are powerful but delicate, they can emerge outside our consciousness or can be deliberately designed. They often occur without our permission but can be reshaped by fiddling with their parts. They shape our lives far more than we realize. They are so strong in fact, that they cause our brains to cling to them at the exclusion of all else, including common sense. [Jennifer] That's good. [Aaron] Yeah, really powerful quote. The whole book just being about habits and how we form them and how we can change them. It's a really good book. [Jennifer] Yeah I wonder if anyone else listening as you read that quote can already just think about a handful of habits in their own lives that do this very thing. [Aaron] Yeah, it's amazing. Most of our habits we form without even thinking about them. It's not like we try to form the habit we just, they form out of our everyday rituals and routines, Choices. [Aaron] And choices, yeah. So it's kind of, it leads into what we're gonna be talking about today a little bit. We're not gonna be talking about just habits. [Jennifer] A little bit bigger of a concept. [Aaron] Yeah. [Jennifer] Of being faithful in the little things, and why. [Aaron] So, why don't we start off with the conversation that we had in the car the other day which lead us to wanting to talk about this [Jennifer] So, yeah we were driving in the car and you brought up that morning's workout, and you just wanted to share about it with me and how excited you were about something specific that you accomplished. [Aaron] Yeah, I was really proud of myself actually because I learned that I had a skill I didn't know I had. The workout involved rope climbing which we don't do very often. We do them maybe once every other month. And this workout had two rope climbs every so many movements, and before the workout started we were just getting ready, warming up and I thought, "Hey, I'm just gonna try a rope climb real quick, "see how it feels, "'cause I haven't done it in awhile." And I did a rope climb without my legs. So they call it a legless rope climb [Jennifer] Sounds torturous. [Aaron] Yeah, but I was really surprised at myself 'cause I've never been able to do a legless rope climb. And so I was sharing, I was like, "Babe, I did all these legless rope climbs today, "I didn't use my legs at all, "I just used my arms to go up and down." [Jennifer] And I just mentioned how I feel like that, like there's so much of it that's mental. [Aaron] Yeah, 'cause I didn't even know I could do it. And I was telling her, I was like, "Yeah, it's amazing how much "all of the stuff we do is mental "because I may be able to do it physically, "but I may not be able to do it mentally." There's many times I have to force myself to keep going. With this workout specifically, I told myself, I was able to do a legless rope climb, I'm just gonna do the whole workout doing only legless rope climbs. Which meant I had to slow down. I couldn't do as many rounds as everyone else did. But I was able to accomplish my little goal. And I was super proud of myself. It was a really good feeling. [Jennifer] You should be, that's awesome. [Aaron] I didn't realize I could do it. And we started talking about how not only is it a balance of mental and physical, but it's something that all these things that people learn, when you see people you're like, oh I can't believe they can do that. They didn't just start doing it. At the crossfit gym that we do, that I go to, there's a progression to things. Like I didn't just start doing legless rope climbs. I could not even do it, I wasn't strong enough, nor did I know how to. So we, there's this term called scaling. So we scale down the workout to what we can do. So even though, you know, I can't do what the main workout is I can still do the workout at a different level. [Jennifer] It seems like that's the key is scaling. [Aaron] Well it is the only way to do it, 'cause you can't just come in and expect someone to do this part of the workout if they've never done it before. You know, some people might be strong like that but usually you just can't. And so we were just discussing how you know, it starts off really small. You know, like, for the rope climb specifically. One of the ways that you can scale that down is instead of climbing the rope you just lay on the floor. And you pull yourself up. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] The rope to where you're standing. [Jennifer] Which when I do crossfit, I had to do that and it was not easy. Even for me. [Aaron] That's even still really hard, yeah. So you're just laying on the floor. [Jennifer] You have to start somewhere. [Aaron] And you walk your arms up the rope and you just pull yourself until you're standing up. And that's one of the first steps of learning how to climb a rope. There's other ways to do it where they bring the rope real low so it's not a very tall one, and you just try and do like a few feet, you know, instead of trying to do 15 feet up in the air, or 25 feet up in the air, you're just, you know, you're going up a couple inches or a couple feet. But that's what spurned this conversation with us about wanting to talk about not just habits, but-- [Jennifer] Spiritual growth, maturity. Just all kinds of hard things in life that you have to be able to start somewhere and experience that progression and balance of growing. And yeah, so when we were talking about scaling we were looking at life and saying that's still required. [Aaron] Well, and what happens is if we do this all in our own hearts, we look at something, or we look where someone's at, and we say, "Oh, well I could never do that, "therefore I'm not gonna try." Like I could never do a legless rope climb so I'm not gonna try. I could never run a marathon so I'm not gonna try. And that's, like no one just goes and runs a marathon. [Jennifer] But we don't see the work that they put into practicing and trying and even failing at times and feeling defeated. [Aaron] And where they started. [Jennifer] Where they started, yeah. [Aaron] Actually, today our coach at the gym was just mentioning how when he first started it took him like two years to do double unders, which is jump rope, you know where you spin it really fast. I can barely do 'em. But when I look at him I'm like, "Wow, it took you that long?" That's how my progression is going, it's been, I can't do 'em yet. I've been going for about two years and I've almost got 'em. But when you hear that you're like, "Oh, well, okay that's normal. "I guess I didn't realize that everyone "starts in the same place." [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] Like everyone starts somewhere. We all start as babies. And then we get stronger and we grow. And so that's kind of what we wanted to discuss today. We're discussing it in our own lives. What are things that we can start today that we're gonna get stronger in and stronger in and better in later? You know, is it health? Spiritually, being in the Word. [Jennifer] Leading our children. [Aaron] Prayer. Leading our children. And how the incremental growth comes from the beginning of starting somewhere and moving forward and getting better at it. [Jennifer] Taking those steps. When we were kind of walking through the notes for today's episode, you mentioned, you know, everybody wants to be at the 1,000 mile mark without ever having to start with the first step. [Aaron] Yeah, what's that quote? A journey of 1,000 miles begins with the first step. [Jennifer] But yeah, everybody wants the reward, and everybody wants to experience the high of maturity or spiritual growth. [Aaron] And the blessings that come with it. [Jennifer] The blessings of leading your children and all these things, whatever the things may be. But there's a lot of work that's required of it. And sometimes we look at that work load and we say, "I can't do that." We don't believe that we're capable. But we wanna remind people that it's a matter of growing incrementally. It's making those daily choices, those individual steps toward those things. [Aaron] Yeah, being faithful. [Jennifer] Being faithful with them. [Aaron] In the very little things on a regular basis. You said something a second ago about not realizing, or not thinking we can handle stuff, or what we're capable of. I think the number one thing I've learned from my fitness journey, and we're not gonna keep talking about fitness by the way, this has been our template for why we were talking about this 'cause of what we've been seeing in me. Is that I'm surprised at what I am capable of. And every single time I go to the gym I'm like, "I can't believe I was able to do that." And I'm not tooting my own horn, it's just the nature of not telling myself I can't. And not giving up on myself and not giving into when it's difficult, and realizing what I'm capable of. There's, I was just thinking about this, what was the movie where the guy's escaped from the prison and they go across the Sahara Desert or whatever? And like it's just thousands and thousands of miles and they just survive. No one would think they could have gotten across the desert but they did. But that's how it is in life. We don't think we can accomplish things or make things happen in our lives, or learn something in the Bible that we see other people know or understand. And we're like, "Oh, we're not capable of that." I can't do that, you know, I can't go speak on stage, I can't go witness to someone, I can't, you know, spiritually lead my family. These are legitimate things that people see other people do, but then inside are like, "Oh, I don't have "it in me to do that." [Jennifer] Yeah, and I don't feel like people are walking around saying I can't do that, I can't do that, I think that it's kind of just something that we accept without even giving it a second thought sometimes. [Aaron] Well I know in my life that's happened a lot. There's things I've just said I couldn't do. But why? Who told me I couldn't do it? You know, doesn't mean I do everything. We wanna talk about the spiritual things in our lives that we can be implementing, walking in, that we can be building on. Becoming faithful in the little things because when we are faithful in these little things over time they compile into bigger things. You know I think spiritually when I think about being faithful in little being faithful in the big, and I think of that scripture where Jesus says, "If you deny me before man, "I will deny you before my Father in Heaven." And I think, you know, we don't as Christians just say, "Oh, one day if I'm persecuted "and put in this situation where "people are gonna threaten my life, "I'm just gonna stand for God." And then, in a very simple situation where someone asks me about my faith and I ignore the question or I avoid the answer. Like can I say that if I can't be faithful in that very little, safe, non life threatening situation. [Jennifer] How would you ever do it? [Aaron] Yeah, how could I possibly imagine that when my life's on the line, or someone else's life on the line, I'm gonna stand for my faith? And I think that's what we're getting at today is practicing walking in these little things. [Jennifer] Yeah, and I think that what I see beneficial about being faithful in the little stuff is in your relationship with God, and our relationship with God, we're actually building trust with Him. He's able to trust us. [Aaron] With more. Yeah so, I wanna read a couple scriptures here. In Luke chapter 16, Jesus is giving a parable. It's about a dishonest manager, and how he was taking advantage of his master's finances and bills and things that he was in charge of. And at the end of it Jesus says, he says this, it's in Luke 16:10. "One who is faithful in very little "is also faithful in much. "And one who is dishonest in very little "is also dishonest in much. "If then you have not been faithful "in the unrighteous wealth, "who will entrust to you the true riches? "And if you have not been faithful in that "which is another's, "who will give you that which is your own? "No servant can serve two masters "for either he will hate the one "and love the other, "or he will be devoted to the one "and despise the other. "You cannot serve God and money." So the direct context of this of course is finances, is money, is the things that we have, and it says unrighteous wealth. And what it's talking about is earthly gain, earthly money, earthly finances, earthly wealth. 'Cause He says if you can't be faithful on Earth with the money that you have that's not Heavenly, not eternal, how can you be entrusted with true riches? Which are Heavenly things. Which are eternal things. And so, the question out of this parable, even though this is specifically talking about money, is what earthly things do we have that we're being faithful with now? You know, I remember thinking when we first started our ministries, you know we launched our social media pages, and we were thinking like, "Man, that'd be so awesome. "What if we can get to a million followers?" [Jennifer] Oh yeah, I remember that. [Aaron] It was like our first year. And we had just started this thing. [Jennifer] We didn't know what we were doing. I mean we were just trying to, we knew our hearts were to encourage people and to utilize the tool of social media. But it was so new back then, too. It was all just, it was all new to us. [Aaron] Yeah, we hadn't even had it long enough to even be called faithful with it. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] You know. And we would've totally mismanaged a platform like that if it grew that fast without us being faithful with the little thing that we had. [Jennifer] So yeah, even though we wanted a large following and people that were part of our audience that we could speak into their lives and encourage, I wouldn't say that we were ready for that, especially when we first started. [Aaron] Of course not. That would be ridiculous. You know, in Timothy we learn about eldership and deaconship and that position it says they must not be a new convert. And the point is that they're not ready. They haven't been proven yet. And so there's lots of things in our life that we should be proven in, and we should walk in consistently to show that we're faithful in those areas. So I just wanna read one more scripture about the same subject. It's in Matthew 25:23. And it's in the same kind of parable. It's a parable of the Talents, you know, the master goes away, leaves three of his servants with a certain amount of Talents, and he expects return from them. And then he says this to one of them. His master said to him, "Well done good and faithful servant. "You have been faithful over little. "I will set you over much. "Enter into the joy of your master." That's what I want God to say to me. [Jennifer] Me too. [Aaron] That God's given me certain things. He's given me my marriage, my children, my job, our relationships, our home, our money, our car, all of these things. And there's much more, right. And I want Him to say that I was faithful with the things that He's given me. That I was faithful in investing them for the kingdom. You know, I wanna ask us, not just me and you Jennifer, but our listeners, what areas of our life, whatever areas of the things God's given us are we being faithful in? And what areas can we be more faithful in? Whether we thing they're big things or small things. We just have to recognize that the things that we currently have, the life that He's given us, He wants us to be faithful with. So, we're talking about, you know, being faithful to the things that God's given us. But I think on top of that, it's really good, we need to be good stewards, we need to be faithful with the things God's given us. But what about our spirit? What are some things that we can be faithful in in the little ways on the spiritual side of things in our life? [Jennifer] Well I definitely, like everyone would agree with me that reading His word and prayer are probably the top two things, right off the bat that we could look at our lives and evaluate whether we're doing that or not. Do we have a good, healthy habit? A daily routine of that? [Aaron] Yeah, being regular in the word and growing in that area. [Jennifer] I think some things that stop people from doing that is feeling like they don't know how to pray. Feeling like they don't understand God's word. And I think I would just encourage them that even if you don't understand it just keep reading it. Eventually God will help your heart to understand it, or maybe you'll have questions, and then you can go seek out answers to those questions. But it's a process. And I think that if we could just start with the simple, you know, just be active in reading, be active in sharing your heart with God, I think those are simple habits to start. [Aaron] Yeah, we're never gonna get better knowing the word of God without reading it. [Jennifer] It's true. [Aaron] And it is daunting, it's like whoa where do I start? And there's so much stuff, what's prophecy? How do I understand it? And there's just so much in the Bible, it's so rich, right? But, what we're getting at with all of this is we just start. You aren't going to get to the finish line without starting the race. And so this is kind of like our, you know, our call to action for the community, for those listening is if there's areas in your life that you know that you haven't been faithful in the little? Like you haven't been in the word of God regularly, haven't been praying, that today you start. [Jennifer] And it's not necessarily a chore either, like I just wanna encourage those listening that sometimes we can see the mountain ahead of us, and just like I said, be daunted by it, and think that's too hard. Or not enjoyable. Or see it as a chore to get to the top. But if you think of a mountain, and having a trail leading up to the top, you're gonna have, you're gonna go through probably tall trees or meadows or flowers or rocks and things to look at. And I think that it can be an enjoyable thing to pursue. It is an enjoyable thing to pursue. But we have to have the right perspective in order to see it that way. [Aaron] And it may not feel enjoyable at first because we're stretching muscles we've never used before. We're practicing something we haven't practiced before, so it is hard. It can be painful. Like, you know, going to bed later, so you can get in the word. Waking up earlier. Those aren't easy things in the beginning, but what happens is you build a craving for it and you start seeing the fruit from it. [Jennifer] And you enjoy that. [Aaron] And that's what you start enjoying. You're like, "Man, I enjoy the spiritual growth I'm seeing. "I enjoy the perspective I'm gaining. "I'm enjoying seeing my life change and transformed "by these new habits I'm forming. "By the word of God, by prayer, "by fellowship." You know, the things that the Bible's called us to. Walking in those things aren't always easy right in the beginning. But there's a quote that just says nothing worth doing's ever easy. You know. And these little things are worth doing. And we have a little note here, it just says incremental growth. The point is are we growing or are we stalled? Are we just staying in one place? Are we stagnant? The Bible uses that term lukewarm. We're neither hot nor cold, we're not going backwards or forwards. We're just remaining. And we don't wanna, a Marriage After God doesn't just remain. [Jennifer] Yeah, we wanna inspire you guys to take those steps forward. [Aaron] Yeah, we chase, we boldly chase after God's will for our lives. And there's only one way to know God's will. It's to dig into His word. And it's to dig into prayer. And it's to participate in the communion of the fellowship of being around believers and walking with one another, and accountability, and iron sharpening iron. But it starts somewhere. [Jennifer] And practically speaking how do you start building these habits or these routines, these things that we know we should be doing when we're not doing 'em. How do we start? [Aaron] Yeah, and it's not going straight to the end. Like okay, I'm gonna read three chapters a night, I'm gonna read through the whole Bible in a month and I'm gonna, it starts with I'm going to set a time every day that I'm gonna open the Bible. [Jennifer] You know when we first got married I remember your mom mentioned to me, she was just giving me tips and tricks on how to manage a home and all of that. And without saying that it was coupling she was actually teaching me the art of coupling. She would say things like, "You know, I read my Bible every morning "with a cup of coffee." So she goes and pours herself a cup of coffee, sits at the kitchen table, and she leaves her Bible on the kitchen table so she knows that those two things go together. And it's a way of building in that habit each and every day. Building a routine each and every day. And I never really put into practice the skill of coupling. Actually I forgot about it until a friend of ours brought it up to us a couple years ago, and kind of inspired you in the art of coupling. And do you wanna talk about that a little bit? [Aaron] Yeah, so, this is just a tip for anyone who wants to implement new habits and routines in their life, especially in these spiritual areas of like reading the word of God or praying, or going and being with other believers. We can couple, which is taking something you already do on a regular basis, taking a habit you already have, and adding the new habit or routine to it. So a good example would be like, if you took a shower every morning, having a note on the mirror in the bathroom to remind you to pray. Or putting your prayer notes on the mirror or somehow in the bath, in the shower when you're in there. So what you're doing is your coupling your daily routine of showering with a daily routine of prayer. [Jennifer] Yeah, so currently right now, by the way I just have to note. If they hear baby noises, coos and burps, it's, the baby's on my lap. But right now we're-- [Aaron] Real life. We're coupling podcasting with parenting. [Jennifer] Yeah. We are trying to find cues within our rhythm of just managing the kids, and so after Bible time I help Elliot with piano, and so for me a signal of ending Bible time means piano time helps me remember that we have to do piano every day. [Aaron] Which we've been talking about piano, we love that our son's learning piano, but it's been hard to have a routine of daily practice. And so we're like okay, what can we couple it with? What can be our cue during the day for you to just go straight to piano practice? And so we're making it right after Bible time he'll do piano practice. Bible time is a good example of something that we've been working on in our home. Forming new habits and better routines and something that's going to spiritually benefit our home and family and children. [Jennifer] Which we've seen. [Aaron] Yeah, and this actually was a hard thing. I remember thinking man I wanna be leading my family spiritually, I wanna be a spiritual leader, I wanna implement things that are gonna benefit my children and myself. And I remember thinking how hard that was. I was like I don't even know what to do, where do I start? What do I, what am I supposed to do? And I just told myself one day. I was like I'm just gonna start. So I was like okay kids, come sit down on the couch, we're doing Bible time. And they're like what? What is Bible time? And didn't it start off, I think we've talked about it before, it started off at like a verse. [Jennifer] Yeah it was short. [Aaron] Like we just did one verse. And I would talk about it for a minute. I didn't have like a set Bible study, I was just like, "Okay, what do you think "that verse meant? "What was your favorite word out of the verse? "What does it mean when he says this?" [Jennifer] Now the whole family looks forward to it. [Aaron] Yeah and it's not just a verse anymore. We read up to two chapters and it will probably get more and more eventually. And that's just an example of starting somewhere. And since we started it's been, we started in January I think. Or February. And it's pretty much been a whole year now. And we do it, I feel like we do it four to five times a week on average. There's some days that we miss. I have coffees on Wednesday mornings so I don't think I do it then. I think you've been doing it. So, that's a routine we have in our home. That our children are hearing the word of God, they're learning the word of God, I'm getting better at leading and having this routine. And what's awesome is when you take these small steps of faithfulness, so me just sitting down for a few minutes a day, reading the Bible with the kids turns into other things. It makes it easier to now have a routine for piano practice. To have a routine for breakfast and a routine for what comes next in the day. And a routine for prayer in the car. We've been practicing, just, we're driving and like hey, who could we be praying for right now, kids? It makes those muscles, those spiritual muscles easier to use. Stronger. [Jennifer] I just keep thinking how much stronger our kids are gonna be. [Aaron] Yeah, because we're practicing habits and spiritual skills now. They're gonna benefit from them. And that's the whole point is we want them to benefit from them. And we're benefiting from 'em. I find myself wanting to read more, which I've always told myself I'm not a reader. And then the other day I was like I'm just gonna read books. So I have like three open books right now in my nightstand. I haven't read through all of them yet, but I'm reading through all of them currently. And I have this audiobook I'm listening to so I'm just trying to walk in new things. I just don't wanna be the same person all the time. I wanna be moving forward. I wanna be growing in life. And I know you feel the same way. It's things that we've been seeing and know that God wants from us is just maturity and growth. So what areas in our life are you seeing that we may need a break? Like habits we may need to break or replace with other habits? [Jennifer] Well I know for myself, we were just talking about this the other day, but when I feel overwhelmed, or even if I feel like I just accomplished something really hard, I treat myself. And it's like that's my cue for a bad habit. Or like I said when I feel overwhelmed. [Aaron] Like you've earned it. Like oh I've earned to go splurge. [Jennifer] Yeah, or if I feel overwhelmed and I just wanna feel better, those are just some simple cues that give me a very bad habit of you know, filling that with sugar or whatever the treat is. [Aaron] Yeah, fill in the blank. [Jennifer] Fill in the blank. So I think that's one thing that I am looking forward to breaking. [Aaron] So replacing that supposed reward you wanna give yourself with something more healthy. [Jennifer] Another one would be going to bed late because I wanna build a habit of getting up early and getting in the word before I get going with the kids. But I know in order to do that I need to go to bed earlier. [Aaron] Yeah, and these are again, these are little things. So just trying to be on the same page, and say hey, what will it take to get to bed 30 minutes earlier tonight? It's setting for ourselves some goals maybe. Little goals like hey, if we're gonna be praying with each other at night let's make sure that we have the kids in bed on time, let's make sure that we're efficient, let's crawl into bed and let's spend time in prayer together. [Jennifer] And I do feel like we are getting stronger and better, more obedient, more faithful in these small things. And sometimes it can feel defeating when we think about we've already come so far, or we've already stretched that muscle so much. We've already changed. [Aaron] Yeah, do I need to do more? Gosh. [Jennifer] Yeah, we've already changed so much and then it hurts when God, or you, or someone reveals that there's more to go. Or even just like, there's another step to take. It can feel really defeating. But that's what faithfulness is all about is just being willing to take that next step forward. Yeah, and I wanna encourage those listening. We've mentioned quite a few things in our life that God might be wanting to change in us and grow in us, and give us more diligence and more faithfulness in, because He's just building and building on us. And again like we said in the beginning, they could be listening to all of this and be like well that's so much, where am I supposed to start with all of that? And my encouragement is just start. God's probably revealing right now to you one area that He would love to see you grow in and change in. Is it just spending some time while you're driving to work praying instead of listening to the radio? And not thinking like oh, I have these 50 things I need to do today, 'cause you will fail. We've experienced that in our lives. We have this grandeur idea like oh I wanna be this person, this is what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna implement these 12 things and I'm gonna be that person tomorrow. And then it's like that's too hard, I can't do it. But what we found is it's real easy to do something small. But then when you do 1,000 small things, right? It becomes a very big thing. I wouldn't have imagined that we would have written 12 books eight years ago. We didn't write 'em all in the same day. [Jennifer] That would have been really hard. I'm glad God didn't ask us to. [Aaron] Thank God, yeah. [Jennifer] He knows us better than we know ourselves. [Aaron] But now looking back it's like oh, we did one book. And then we did a second book. We had 1,000 followers, and then 10,000 followers, and again, not just to talk about us. I'm just, the point is, we started somewhere. And unless we start we're not gonna ever get anywhere. [Jennifer] And I think a marriage after God is willing to start, and they're willing to embrace hard things, and they're willing to persevere. And they're willing to look at the future with vision and understanding and hope that they will, they will mature, and they will grow, and they will exercise those muscles for the purposes of what God has for them to glorify His name. [Aaron] Yeah I was gonna ask why does all this matter? [Jennifer] Yeah, it's for Him. [Aaron] Like why are we even? It's for Him. He's got something for us to do. Just think of that scripture that tells us that God's prepared beforehand, before we were even formed in the womb, He had good works for us to accomplish in this world for Him. So all of these things, they're not so that we can feel more holy or look what we've done. The only goal, the only drive, the only passion that should be pushing any of these decisions forward, and giving us motivation to do these things, and grow in these areas, is to see what He's doing in our life, and to see what He's. [Jennifer] Truett agrees. [Aaron] Yeah, Truett agrees. So I hope this encourages those that are listening to ask God what areas they can build new habits in, and to be revealed, areas they can just start today. [Jennifer] I'm willing to bid they already know what that next step is. [Aaron] Yeah they're thinking right now like oh, I've been wanting to do this. [Jennifer] Okay, you just need to do it. [Aaron] You just need to do it. So I said last night Jennifer, you were mentioning how you wanted to start something, and I was like, "Start? "Start today?" I didn't say it harshly, but I was just like the reality is that it's not going to start for you, like start it. [Jennifer] And sometimes I feel like we always wanna say like we'll start Monday. And that never works because then Monday comes, then Tuesday comes, then Wednesday comes, and you forgot that you were supposed to start Monday. So then you have to start Monday again. [Aaron] That's one of the tactics our flesh uses to keep us from moving forward, to keep us from growing up. Is as long as it's tomorrow it's not today. So let's just make it today. Today's the day of salvation. Today is the day that we make those changes. Today is the day we say yes to God. Today is the day we believe what the scriptures say about the power that's in us, the resurrection power of Jesus Christ. And that we walk in it. We walk in the spirit, not the flesh. I just hope everyone that's listening is encouraged, I mean it's something that Jennifer and I are walking through and growing in and learning how to be. So a new thing that we've been doing is ending in prayer. And so Jennifer's got a prayer for you all today. So would you please join us in prayer? [Jennifer] Dear Lord, we pray that we would be men and women who submit our lives to you. Examine our lives and show us the areas that need transformation and change. We pray we wouldn't complain or grumble when you revealed to us bad habits that we need to break, or what the next step of growth is that we need to take. Help us not to be prideful or resistant when you use our spouse to speak a word of truth about the habits in our lives. May we receive what they have to share with a humble heart, knowing that what they share is motivated by love. We pray we would walk in righteousness. Holy Spirit help us to break the stronghold of habits that need to go, rhythms and routines that have become natural to us but don't benefit us or our families. When you convict our hearts toward change may we boldly choose to walk out what you desire for us. May we be faithful in the little things each and every day, knowing that our faithfulness is building trust in a relationship with you. Please help us to prepare our hearts and our bodies for the work that you have for us. May we take time to encourage our spouse in building better habits, and keep each other accountable to the changes we aim to make. Lord help us to be faithful in the small things so that we are prepared for the bigger things. In Jesus' name, Amen. [Aaron] Amen. So thanks for joining us for today's episode. We pray that you would hear the heart of the Lord today. And that you would seek out what He has for you, and how He wants you to grow. And we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

The Bible tells us that the crucible is meant to refine, and God will allow us to go through things in our lives that will act as crucibles to bring us to a place where the dross of our character can come to the surface. Consider supporting this podcast by buying one of our marriage books today. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com READ: [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today, we're gonna talk about asking God to search our hearts. ♪ Whoo ♪ ♪ Hey, hey, hey ♪ [Aaron] Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one full of life-- [Aaron] Love-- [Jennifer] And power-- [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God-- [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. ♪ Hey, hey, hey ♪ [Aaron] Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. [Jennifer] The most amazing podcast you've ever been listening to. [Aaron] Yeah, if you're married for sure. Actually, I think we have people that are not married listening to us. [Jennifer] Hey, that's good. Yeah. It's awesome. [Aaron] Which is awesome. As usual, we wanna invite you to leave us a quick review. A star rating is the easiest way to do it. All you have to do is scroll to the bottom of the podcast app and hit the star. But if you have a little bit of extra time, you can leave us a text review also, and that helps lots of people see the episodes, see the podcast, because it comes up in the rankings the more reviews they have. So that'd be awesome if you can do that. If you've been blessed by the show, we just invite you to do that. [Jennifer] And thank you to everyone who has already left a review and star rating. We really appreciate that. [Aaron] Yeah, there's tons of 'em. We have over 600 star ratings, and like 70 or 80 text reviews, which is amazing. [Jennifer] And so encouraging to us. [Aaron] Yeah, I go through and I read 'em, and I send 'em. I'll text pictures of 'em to my wife so she could see what they say. They're really encouraging. So we wanted to also invite you to check out our online store, shop.marriageaftergod.com, where my wife and I have written a 30-day devotional bundle for husbands and wives. We've also written a prayer book bundle for husbands and wives. And it's also where we're gonna be launching our new book next year, Marriage After God, which this podcast was started because of, and that comes out next year. So if you wanna support our podcast, if you love the content, just go to shop.marriageaftergod.com. [Jennifer] For those listening who, like you said, maybe aren't married yet, we also have a book bundle for them. Oh, yeah. And it's prayers for your future husband and wife, so you can check that out as well. [Aaron] Thank you for that reminder. So that's how we get support for our podcast. If you love it, if you wanna support the podcast and the content, check out our store, and pick up one of our books. That'd be awesome. So before we get into the topic, I'd love to do an icebreaker. And this is something we're gonna try doing. It's a new part of our show. And so it actually reminds me of when we used to lead a marriage table back at our old church, babe. Do you remember how we do icebreakers in the beginning of all of the sessions? [Jennifer] Yeah, it was super fun. I think it was just a way for people to get to know each other on a real quick, kind of surface-level basis. And so I think it'll be fun. I think it'll give our listeners just a little bit more insight into us. [Aaron] Yeah, and sometimes it'll be fun. There might be like a little game or something. I don't know yet. [Aaron] So here's the icebreaker. What is your favorite candy? [Jennifer] Mm, that's a good one. I have lots of favorite candies. I tend to lean more towards the chocolate, which when I think of candy, I think of hard, sour tart things. So I don't know how other people would answer this, but I would just say like a good Snickers bar, good chocolate bar. [Aaron] Do you like the nougaty center? What's in a Snickers bar, peanuts? I don't even know. Yeah, there's like caramel, nuts, the nugget, all of it. [Aaron] Mm. [Jennifer] Or is it nigget? I don't know. Nigget? [Jennifer] I don't know what it's called. [Aaron] I think it's nougat. Noo-jit. Okay, so now you ask me an icebreaker question. [Jennifer] All right, so you're drinking a cup of coffee right now. Yes. What do you like in your coffee? How do you take it? Let everyone know. [Aaron] Black, nothing. I don't put anything in my coffee. ♪ Boring ♪ Just kidding. I like it that way. Just espresso and water. Hot water, of course. So that's... I don't know if anyone knew that about me. I just like black coffee. Yeah, it is boring. I don't put any sugar, no cream. I don't even like eggnog in my coffee even though I love eggnog. [Jennifer] I've never even heard of someone putting eggnog in coffee. Why would you even say that? [Aaron] Like an eggnog latte. [Jennifer] Oh. I'm not really a coffee drinker, so I don't know what's available. I don't know what's out there. [Aaron] Yeah. It's the season for eggnog, that's why I brought it up. I'd rather just have a cup of eggnog with a cup of coffee next to it. Okay, so icebreaker done. But another thing we're gonna add toour podcast is I'm reading a book right now, and I'm gonna read a quote from it. And so I think what we're gonna try and do is just take little quotes as we're reading through books and materials that we are checking out and going through. And the one I'm currently reading is Letters to the Church by Francis Chan. And the quote is on page 78. And it's this. Scripture is clear. There is a real connection between our unity and the believability of our message. If we are serious about winning the lost, we must be serious about pursuing unity. And I just love that, because we've been talking a lot about unity in our church lately. A theme in our life lately over the last few years has been unity, just learning to fall in love with the body of Christ and fall in love with other believers in the way the Bible has called us to. So that just really spoke to me last night when I read it. [Jennifer] So I love that quote, and I think it's pertinent to what we're gonna be talking about today, specifically just introducing what we wanna talk about today 'cause it kind of started out with a little messiness in a relationship that contributed to what we're gonna share today. Do you wanna-- Yeah. Share a little bit more about that? So in our, in our small home church, we have a handful of families. And when you walk so closely with people, there's just going to be some messiness sometimes. There's gonna be stickiness. There's gonna be hard things. It's why the Bible talks a lot about our relationships with each other. The majority of the Bible is not just our relationship with God, but how he desires us to walk with one another. [Jennifer] Right, which I really appreciate that about the Bible. I think that it gives us all the tools, and encouragement, and guidance on navigating the messy parts of relationships. [Aaron] Yeah, and-- [Jennifer] For the purpose of unity, which is what you just shared on. [Aaron] Exactly. And we're not gonna talk about the specific situation. We're not gonna talk about the specific people. [Jennifer] Well, here's the thing, is everybody listening right now can relate to this. No matter what relationship that you're a part of, there's gonna be messiness. [Aaron] So what all of our listeners can do is as they hear what we're talking about, they can superimpose their own experiences to fill in the blank, because we don't need to give those details. Because what we wanna talk about is what happened-- [Jennifer] After. [Aaron] Because-- Yeah. Of that situation. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] So maybe you can give a little bit of synopsis of what happened over the last few days, and maybe what led up to this. And we can talk about our conversation we had. [Jennifer] Okay, so there was this relational messiness that was going on. And you were sharing with me late Saturday night that on your way home God had used that situation to prompt your own heart to kinda confront some things. [Aaron] Yeah. I took what was going on, and in the midst of what was going on immediately began to internalize and look inward and say, okay, who am I in this scenario? Who am I at home? And I felt like God started just really pointing out in me things, and calling out in me things, which is I believe is what we should be doing. Whenever we confront hard things, whenever we walk in trials with our brothers and sisters, I feel like the fleshly response is to look outward and say, oh, look at this, look who's at fault. This happened, they did this. But the spiritual response should be to look internally, and say, who am I? [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] What does God wanna do in me? How does God wanna use this situation to change me, transform me, make me more like him? [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we were sitting on the couch that night after the kids went to bed, and you started sharing this with me, kinda like as if this situation pulled up a mirror to your own life. And what was the specific thing that God revealed to you? [Aaron] He revealed to me a few things. He revealed to me, specifically, my harshness at times with my children. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] Although I've been growing a lot, and we're trying really hard to disciple our children well, and be consistent with them, and discipline them well, and train them well, and raise them well, and love them well, I have some areas of my heart and areas of my character that need to be changed. And he used this hard situation in other relationships in our fellowship to show me this. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. So what you didn't know going into this conversation with me was that I had also been wrestling with some similar thoughts just about the way that I sometimes react or respond to the kids. And earlier that day was just a struggle for me. And I just was short with the kids, a little negative in my responses toward them, and I felt really bad about that. And we sat there for about an hour and 1/2 weeping over these types of responses, because our kids don't deserve that. Our kids don't deserve us to be short-tempered, or quick in our responses, or what are some of the other things? [Aaron] Harsh stares, the way we look at them. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] The words we choose to use. The way we word our messages to them. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. And it's not that we're like this all the time, but there are specific situations or circumstances that happen that we respond to in this way. Fleshly, yeah. Fleshly. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. [Aaron] And what's funny about this in how God works is our conversation on the couch that night started out as a debrief of what we've been dealing with outside of this conversation. This wasn't even a conversation we were having. And then it just mutated very quickly into a very internally focused, intrinsically-focused conversation about our own, we should call it sin. Mm-hmm, yeah. 'Cause that's what it is. Us not walking rightly, and us walking in the flesh is sin. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] The first thing I think of is the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience. Us not being peaceful with our children, us not being patient with our children, us not being kind or gentle, it's sin. 'Cause right before that statement about the fruits of the Spirit is the fruit of the flesh. Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And although we were going through something very hard, and what I think happened is we were already spiritually sensitive because of the things we were going through in the other relationships. [Jennifer] Well, and we were kind of talking, the conversation started out with the different perspectives of that situation and kind of going to God and saying, what's going on, what's happening, and what needs to happen for reconciliation or unity within the body, within these other relationships? And then, like you said, it kind of just internalized. And I feel like what happened sitting on the couch with you that night is it was almost like God had a bucket going down into a well and he was drawing it up. And it was like the bucket was pouring over. That's a good illustration, yeah. [Jennifer] And I felt like he was pulling it out of me, all these things that I wasn't really struggling with in that moment until all of sudden, the light shined on my heart. [Aaron] I think I said one phrase and it just triggered this whole conversation, and softening of our hearts, and a revealing of our sin, and a conversation that led us to just dive in of who we are, what we do, are these things gonna remain, or are we gonna change them and remove them? [Jennifer] Well, I remember, too, a few days before this was happening, I remember driving down the street, and I had the same conviction about my role and relationship with my kids. And I brushed it off with the justification of, well, I'm not as bad as some people, or I don't do it that often. And I had these justifications that made me just kind of push it aside. And we should never push aside convictions like that. And I was realizing that-- But it's so easy to. [Jennifer] I know. -Sometimes. I know, it really is. [Aaron] 'Cause confronting those things makes us feel ugly. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] And that's not fun. [Jennifer] Yeah, so all a sudden, my flesh goes, well, you're not that terrible, you know? Mm-hmm. [Jennifer] When really, the things that I was doing, I should definitely stop and recognize. And so, man, that was a good conversation sitting with you on the couch that night. [Aaron] It was a necessary one. And so why are we bringing this up to our audience? Are we talking about parenting right now? No. [Aaron] No. [Jennifer] No, it actually has nothing to do with parenting. [Aaron] No. In our case, it had to do with parenting. It also had to do with we had some conversations about our marital relationship. [Jennifer] Yup, and how we treat each other in certain circumstances. Yeah, the words we use. Are we walking in the roles God's called us to? Or are we going outside those? Are we fighting against them? Because we've grown so much in those areas, but at the same time, we can't forget that we aren't perfect yet. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] That God's still sanctifying us, and he's changing us, and he does it in specific ways. And so I just wanted to bring up a scripture that illustrates just really well. It's Proverbs 17:3, and it says the crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts. And Proverbs uses this illustration several times. And a crucible is a big, ole hot pot that you would throw metal into, and it melts it down. And you melt it, and melt it, and melt it, especially with precious metals like silver and gold. And what happens is the more you heat it up, the more you boil it, the dross, the impurities, float to the top, and then you can scrape it off the top. And then you keep heating it, and then more impurities come up to the top, and you scrape it. That's what a crucible on a furnace is for, for gold and silver. And I believe God was using this situation in our church with some of these relationship that we were having that we were navigating issues with as a crucible for our hearts. It was a spiritually-sensitive situation. We're being required to be in the spirit, and being praying and asking for the Lord's will, and seeking after his answer for what's going on. Which then brought to the surface in our hearts some thingsthat he wanted to scrape away from us. [Jennifer] Yeah. That's definitely what it felt like sitting on the couch with you that night. I just felt like he was-- It was kinda painful. Like drawing it up, yeah. But it was good. [Aaron] Mm-hmm. [Jennifer] And I remember at the end of it, you said, "Well, we need to change." And then I cried some more, and said, "It's so hard, I don't know how to." And you're like-- Yeah, you're like, "What do I do? "I feel like I wanna change, "and what?" And you weren't saying just you. It's us. Us. Yeah. [Aaron] But you're like, "I feel like I want to, "but I don't know how to." [Jennifer] And you said, "We just do. "God's already given us the Holy Spirit that empowers us, "and we just need to." [Aaron] Yeah. And for those that are listening, I'm sure they can think, remember we talked about the filling in the blanks? They can think of a situation or something in their life where they're like, I just don't know how to change. Like what do I do? And what's amazing is, and it sounds too easy, and I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty and the struggle that our spirit and flesh have with each other at times, but we can just change because we are empowered by the Holy Spirit. Do you remember the illustration I gave Eliott this morning during Bible time? We were talking about the Holy Spirit empowering us, and I used his-- [Jennifer] Oh, yeah, Tony Stark. Yeah. [Jennifer] Our son's obsessed a little bit with Iron Man. He thinks he's the coolest guy ever. [Aaron] Yeah, so I was reading in Galatians, and it was talking about being empowered. And I told Eliott, I said, "Eliott, do you think Tony Stark "would be powerful without his suit?" And he's like, "Well, no, he's just a man." And I said, "Well, but his suit gives him power. "He can fly, and shoot blasters." And I was giving all these little illustrations. And I said, "That's what the Holy Spirit is." [Jennifer] You could see kind of a light bulb go on in his head like, oh, yeah. [Aaron] I said, "Without the Holy Spirit, "we can't do anything." Which the Bible tells us, we can do nothing to please God without the Spirit of God. We can't do anything apart from the Spirit. But with the Spirit of God, we can do everything. Everything that God wills for our lives, we could actually accomplish through the power of the Holy Spirit. And yeah, his eyes did light up, because I equated the Holy Spirit to Iron Man's suit. It's much more powerful than Iron Man's suit. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] We have the living God inside of us. We have the power that resurrected Christ from the dead in us. Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And so on the couch, I was like, "I'm not trying to be harsh, "but I think we just have to change today. "We cannot continue in what we were walking in. "We cannot continue to give ourselves excuses. "We cannot continue operating the way we've been operating." I said, "We just have to change." [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. And then you also said, you said, "We need to ask God to search our hearts, "and in humility, confront the things that he brings up." [Aaron] Yeah, like the dross. Mm-hmm. And deal with it. [Aaron] Allow him to search us. And that actually came, so right at the end of the night, I made a phone call to a friend, and I told that friend. I said, "Let God search your heart." [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And I get off the phone, and immediately this conversation broke out with us. And it's like, not to be a hypocrite, I must take my own advice. Yeah, yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And I was like, well, am I allowing God to search my heart? So I just said, "We need to let God search our hearts, "search within us, "and show us the things he wants to cut out of us, "he wants to change in us." And I wanna read all of Psalm 139. It's Psalm of David, a man after God's own heart. The Bible calls him that. God calls him a man after his heart. And as I brought up on Sunday when I was talking about this topic and what God was doing in us, I asked everyone, I said, "Do you want to be, "do you wanna be people that are after God's heart?" And everyone raised their hands. Yes. And said, "Yes," yeah. [Aaron] And said, "Yes." And I was like, "Well, we have a template for that. "We know someone who when they sinned against God "and were confronted by God with it, "confessed, and repented, and turned that moment." There was still consequences in life, but he was a man that showed us like, oh, when we walk this way, we can turn and walk the other way, and we can please God with our life. And so Psalm 139 says this. Oh, Lord, you have searched me and know me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up. You discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, oh Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in behind before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high, I cannot attain it. Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to Heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there. If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. If I say, surely the darkness shall cover me and the light about me be night, even the darkness is not dark to you. The night is bright as day, for darkness is as light with you. For you formed my inward parts. You knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works, my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret intricately woven in the debts of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed substance. In your book were written every one of them the days that were formed for me when as yet there was none of them. How precious to me are your thoughts, oh God. How vast is the sum of them. If I would count them, they are more than the sand. I awake and I am still with you. Oh, that you would slay the wicked, oh God. Oh men of blood, depart from me. They speak against you with malicious intent. Your enemies take your name in vain. Do I not hate those who hate you, oh Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with complete hatred. I count them my enemies. Search me, oh God, and know my heart. Try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. And what's so powerful about this scripture, first of all, it's beautiful. Mm-hmm. Just David's ability to write poetry and song. He's very talented. But also his ability to show us the vastness of God's knowledge of us. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] That he knows us better than we know ourselves, better than anyone knows us. He was there before we were formed, had thoughts about us before we were formed, knew the days of our lives before they existed. And yet at the very end of this, he still asks this all-knowing God that knows everything about him to search him, and to know him, and to know his thoughts, and for the purpose of finding any grievous way in him. And I just think if David did that, as people with the Holy Spirit in us who searches our hearts would sit down and say, Lord, is there anything in me you want out of me? I think it's important for us as believers to do that. [Jennifer] Yeah, I know. It's just so beautiful. And I love how you brought up that God already knows us inside and out, every which way before we were even born. He's the one that knit us together. He is the one who made us in the secret place. And I think that that helps us trust him when we cry out to him and say, search me, oh Lord. We can trust God. Right. [Jennifer] Because he's the one that created us, and he already knows us. [Aaron] Yeah, and he desires us of our own will to invite him to search us. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] Because we can be oblivious. [Jennifer] Yeah, we can. [Aaron] It's not an excuse, but often we use it, the ignorance and obliviousness, as an excuse of like, well, I didn't know, or well, how am I supposed to, I'm not perfect. We use all these words, like you said, "Well, I'm not that bad." [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] And I've done the same thing. When I come to these thoughts that the Holy Spirit's prompting my heart, I say, well, I've changed a lot, and I used to be much worse, and therefore, I'll get better eventually, and it's not that bad. [Jennifer] Well, we can't be blindsided if we are growing in spiritual maturity to think that we've ever reached the pivotal place at the top where we're just like perfect. Yeah, we're there. [Jennifer] We're not there yet. We'll never be there until we're in the presence of God, and we have to stand before him. [Aaron] It's a great point is we're not there yet. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And so, A, can we humble ourselves enough to recognize that we're not there yet? [Jennifer] Well, we have to. -Yeah. We need to. [Aaron] Yeah, the Bible tells us that if we don't humble ourselves, we're gonna fall. And I don't wanna fall. I don't wanna, in our scenario, lose our kids. I don't wanna just continue in these every once in a while or every so often things that we deal with, and then embitter our kids to us. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. Or set the example so that when they're parents, they respond in this way. Let's just end it. Let's stop that, and show 'em the right way. [Aaron] And ask God on our knees, change us. Make us better. Show us how you want us to be the way everlasting, right? Yeah, 'cause who benefits from when we cry out and say, search me, oh God, of course we benefit from that if we walk out and pursue what he has for us in purifying our hearts and purifying our lives, but who else benefits? [Aaron] The body, others, our children, our spouse, our neighbors. It increases unity in the body of Christ with other Christians. Other people benefit from us inviting God to search us, and change us, and draw things out of us. And what's awesome is the Holy Spirit's already doing this. His desire is to sanctify us and transform us from the inside out. But there's something powerful about acknowledging and recognizing that he wants to do that. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And then it's almost like opening the curtains or taking the glasses off, you're like, oh, like yes. I'm gonna look for the things you wanna show me, so when you show me, I'm not gonna slough 'em off. I'm not gonna justify them away. I'm gonna say, that's something you're showing me. Okay, I'm gonna change it. I'm gonna walk in your spirit you're giving me, good Lord, to help me change it. We woke up that next morning, how did you feel? [Jennifer] Lighter and braver. [Aaron] Braver? Brave's a good word. [Jennifer] Yeah, I just felt like we could do this. And the coolest part is that we're doing it together. You could've had that revelation from the Lord and just continued on and maybe ask God to search your heart without ever having that conversation with me. But because you entered into that conversation with me, we're able to not just have had an awesome conversation where intimacy took place in that moment, especially-- I was just thinking the word intimacy, yeah. Over our children. That was so beautiful to me. But that we get to keep each other accountable and walk through it together. Day-to-day, we're asking each other, "Hey, how've you been? "How've you been with your attitude? "How you've been with your responses?" That is what marriage is, that's a part of what marriage is for, why God created two becoming one. [Aaron] Yeah, to help sanctify us, to transform us. Yeah, so it's not just your journey with God, although, that's important. It's our journey together, and how God can move through our marriage. [Aaron] Yeah, and the next day, man, it did feel lighter. It did feel like we can accomplish anything with God. It also empowered us. It made us ready for what God had next for us. And I don't know, I just wanna encourage everyone listening to consider the things we're saying. I asked everyone on Sunday. I said, "Go this weekend, ask God to search you." And it is scary, and I'm pretty sure there are people that haven't done it yet, because they're like, okay, am I ready for this? Am I, you know? [Jennifer] What's God gonna show me, even though you probably already know. [Aaron] Yeah. What's funny is just me even mentioning it, I bet you anything, things just immediately came to people's hearts. Well, what did I keep saying on the couch that night when I was crying? Do you remember? [Aaron] Um, we said a lot of things. You kept saying you can't, or-- I kept saying, "Why did you even say anything?" [Aaron] Oh, yeah. [Jennifer] Like three different times, I'm like-- And oh, yeah. "Why did you even say anything, why did you bring this up?" [Aaron] Yeah, "I don't even like that you brought it up." [Jennifer]But I didn't mean it. It was just my flesh-- No, it was out of your heart, yeah. Yep. Not wanting to confront certain things, but I know it needed to happen. And I'm so thankful. And I remember telling you, "I didn't bring it up. "God brought it up." Yeah, the Lord did. Which I'm grateful for, I really am. [Aaron] Well, yeah, and-- [Jennifer] And don't you feel unified in our marriage that we know that we're trying to tackle hard things with parenting? Together, yeah. [Jennifer] Together, yeah, I just love that. [Aaron] And what's funny is the more you're with someone, the more you're one with someone, the more your issues are the same. I think when we-- [Jennifer] We start copying each other. [Aaron] When we first got married, I had my issues, you had your issues, and we've slowly worked through a lot of them. Mm-hmm. Right? And now we're on the couch crying about the same thing. The same thing. [Aaron]Like our horrible parenting, or our horrible attitude. I might be exaggerating a little bit, but I feel like I'm not. Like that God wants us better in these areas. Well, here's the thing. I don't think it matters what level. I think that if it needs to change, he's gonna prick your heart about it. Yeah. And it's our job to have the courage to face it and allow God to transform us. That's the point. It doesn't matter what the level of harshness is if there's any harshness. God wants it. You know what I mean? [Aaron] Yeah, well, level is a good word. 'Cause you actually mentioned a while, you've talked about how if something you were walking in a sin wasn't to the same level of something I was walking in-- [Jennifer] I disregarded it. [Aaron] You would be like, well, it's not that. [Jennifer] It's not as bad as that guy. Yeah, at least I'm not like my husband, and the things he's walking in. [Jennifer] Stop justifying, Jen. [Aaron] We can actually, we do that. [Jennifer] I know. [Aaron] There's things that God might wanna change in us, and what we do is we say, well, it's not one of the major sins, so it's not that big of a deal. And God's like, wait, no, I'm not okay with any of it. The Bible tells us to be holy as he is holy. What that means is that we're pursuing the holiness, which means we're practicing it. In 1 John, it tells us, it says, he who practices righteousness is righteous. [Jennifer] Mm-hmm. [Aaron] And that's what God wants. He wants us to practice it, and he teaches us these things. And so-- [Jennifer] What's the challenge for them? [Aaron] The challenge for them, the challenge for them is to sit down with their spouse, and ask God to search them. As David said, search me, oh Lord. Know my thoughts. See if there be any grievous ways in me. [Jennifer] And if there are grievous ways and he reveals them to you, which he will, he's faithful, and he wants this for us to have the courage to change. [Aaron] Yeah, and to realize that you can change, and be transformed in those areas because the same Holy Spirit that just revealed those things to you lives in you empowering you to be different, to be a new kind of human. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] As The Bible Project always says. A new kind of human that we can actually be godly people. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] And it's a journey. Yeah. And so that was our encouragement for everyone today is to do what we just did. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] And then to do it often. We're gonna do it more often. We're gonna be kind of a constant prayer of like, okay, Lord, is there anything in me? Change me, make us new. [Jennifer] Yeah. Well, speaking of prayer, we ended the last episode on spiritual stamina with a time of prayer together, which I really enjoyed. That was really awesome. And we just loved that so much that we believe that there's a necessity to be praying with you guys. So at the end of every Marriage After God episode from here on out, we're gonna end with prayer. So you can look forward to ending each episode with us, and we just invite you to join us in prayer wherever you're listening. [Aaron] All right, I'm gonna pray. Dear Lord, thank you for your holy word that guides us and challenges us to be transformed. We desire to be mature. We desire to be who you create us to be. We lay our hearts down before you. Please search our hearts, Lord, and see if there be any grievous way in us. Prune our hearts. Cut out what is sinful and unfruitful. Strip away the bad and replace it with your good. Reveal to us the areas of our lives that need to be repented of, that need to be changed, that need to be transformed. If there is anything we have been hiding, anything we have been avoiding, anything we have been unaware of, please open our eyes to it all and give us the courage to confront it. Lord, help us to deny our flesh and embrace the righteousness through your Holy Spirit living in us. May we never be prideful. May we never be convinced that we don't have room to grow. Search our hearts, oh Lord. In Jesus' name, amen. [Jennifer] Amen. [Aaron] So I hope that blessed everyone. Prayer is important. God calls us to pray without ceasing. And so have this conversation with your spouse, get in prayer, and see what the Lord reveals. So we thank you for joining us this week. And we hope it blessed you. We hope God's working in your lives. That's our constant prayer for you all. And we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. 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Join us as we discuss how God has been showing us His desire for us to grow in our spiritual stamina in our prayer life. Prayer should be a normal occurrence in the believer's life and it has been a foundational element of our marriage over the years but lately, we have been feeling that God is desiring us to pray more. In order to grow our stamina, which is the ability to handle more, in our spiritual life is by doing it more. -- Take our 31-day marriage prayer challenge today and join the 1000's of couples who have done it. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com/products/thirty-one-prayers-bundle -- FOR MORE MARRIAGE ENCOURAGEMENT https://marriageaftergod.com https://instagram.com/marriageaftergod SHOP MARRIAGE RESOURCES https://shop.marriageaftergod.com FOR WIVES https://unveiledwife.com https://facebook.com/unveiledwife FOR HUSBANDS https://husbandrevolution.com https://facebook.com/HusbandRevolution READ [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage after God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] And today we're gonna talk about Spiritual Stamina and Prayer. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] And so far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe the Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life, Love, [Jennifer] And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. [Jennifer] Together. [Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. [Aaron] Okay, before we get started on this week's episode, I just wanna invite any of you that have been subscribed to our channel and enjoying this content, if you would just take a moment and leave us a star rating and a review. If you don't have time for a text review, you can just leave a star rating also, but when those reviews get left, they actually help our podcast get seen by a lot more people so we'd really appreciate it, if you have a moment to leave a review, that would be awesome. [Jennifer] Also, Aaron and I would like to invite you to support this podcast by shopping through our store. So if you go to marriageaftergod.com/challenge, you can check out our resources on prayer and take the 31 day challenge, pray with your spouse through those resources and that, shopping through our store helps support this podcast. [Aaron] So let's just get into the content now. You know, we're gonna be talking about spiritual stamina, which is a term that I brought up this last Sunday and we'll talk about where it came from but I believe it's something that God's walking us through right now. There's several things that we're gonna talk about today that were brought up recently, over the last few days, and we're just thinking, "Man, we should talk about this." [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] For this week's podcast. [Jennifer] Yeah, I feel like it's a necessary message, not just for our hearts and the things that we're walking through but hopefully it'll inspire everyone listening. [Aaron] Yeah, and then our heart for this podcast is always to inspire and encourage marriages out there who love God and who wanna know His will for their life and marriage to move forward and that's what He's doing with us, it's our journey, it's their journey, but this word 'stamina', it's something that I think about often when it comes to my workout in the mornings at the gym, which this morning's was super hard and I had almost no stamina. I could not keep going, I almost quit halfway through the workout. [Jennifer] I've been there before, pretty much any workout I've ever done. [Aaron] And the idea is that we, as we work out, or as we exercise or we build muscle, our muscle in our body and our system gets better at doing that and it means we can handle more. And this week, on Sunday at church actually, I was thinking about it. Actually church service was awesome, I walked away feeling so blessed and that just, the Lord was speaking to our hearts, but a thought I had was, "Man, I wonder if we could handle more as a church body?" [Jennifer] Like go longer? [Aaron] Yeah, go longer. Like, it was actually a really good service and several people spoke and talked and we sang a lot of awesome worship songs and just, it was a really good morning. There was tons of prayer, but then I just had this thought of I wonder if we could handle more. Could we go longer, or is it, we just cap it a certain amount or time and this was, I don't believe anyone was, I actually didn't tell anyone this, there was no problem, it was just, I was just thinking, like, I wonder what it would take if we could do more, if God wanted us to go further, if we could, would we be okay with that. Have you ever thought about that before, Babe? [Jennifer] When I think of stamina, I think of my time spent with the kids and kind of just doing our daily routine and the kind of stamina that a parent needs, to be able to do that, to last the whole day. That's a good illustration. Fulfilling their needs and being their encouragement and their comfort and just be that person in their life to guide them and it requires a lot, and so when I think of the word 'stamina', that's what I think of. [Aaron] Well, that's a good illustration, actually. So your stamina from one child to your stamina to two children-- [Jennifer] It grows exponentially. I feel like each time, every time we have another child, I do feel like, kind of like you were talking about, growing and as you exercise and building that muscle, I feel like I'm building that muscle as a parent. [Aaron] Right, in every aspect, not just playing with our kids but in discipline-- [Jennifer] And teaching. [Aaron] In teaching, discipleship, all these areas. So another area that stamina came up was in prayer, recently, and we're gonna talk about that and actually at the end of this episode, are we gonna pray for the marriages that listen? [Jennifer] Yeah, when we were talking about what we would share today, I've actually been asking you for a couple weeks now, hey, we need to an episode just on praying and pray for the couples who are listening because we know how powerful prayer is and our heart is to pray for you guys, and so we thought we could just enter into a time of praying and I'm really excited to do that today. [Aaron] Yeah, and we'll do that towards the end so stay tuned. I did a live video today on Instagram and got people's prayer requests so we're gonna go through some of those, Babe. Oh awesome. [Aaron] But we're just gonna pray generally for marriages who listen to this, marriages and the church and so that's gonna be awesome, but prayer was a part of the spiritual stamina we were talking about. Jennifer and I have made prayer a main theme in our marriage since the beginning. It's been a main theme in our ministry online, it's been probably the most popular books that we've had, is our prayer books. [Jennifer] And I would say that it's not because we're good at it, it's because God's constantly calling us to do it and I feel like that's been an area of our life that we constantly come back to and need to be reminded of and so I think that's why it's such a big part of our ministry online, is because we know that if it's hard for us, it's probably hard for other people. So, just wanted to-- And I feel like recently-- Share that. [Aaron] We've talked about this a bit, Babe, is that God's actually asking us for more. It feels like He's saying, "Hey, I want you to pray more." That there's more to be prayed about, that I want more energy put into prayer and so that goes back to the stamina of well, what can we handle? And you actually, you just asked God recently, you said, "Okay Lord, what's next?" And I feel like what's next in our life is more prayer, more of the word of God, more spiritual growth, more fellowship, all of these things that God, that we experience God in and how we know Him and I think that's what He's calling us to. [Jennifer] So, real quick, you had mentioned that on Sunday specifically, you were kind of wrestling with the question, can we handle more, and I know that the night before, you had started a new book and so do you wanna share a little bit from that? [Aaron] Yeah, so not only was this idea on Sunday of like, can we handle more? Can we pray more? Can we read more? What could our church handle? Could our spiritual stamina be built and grow as a church as a whole but also as individuals in our marriage and then the conversation continued and then that night, I read this book at night. It's by Francis Chan, it's called Letters to the Church, I just got it and he talks about prayer in it and it was pretty powerful, I just wanna read a little bit of what he said. This is on page 67 and he's talking about prayer and the church and he says, "Years ago, my friend from India "drove me to a speaking engagement in Dallas. "When he heard the music and saw the lights, "he said, 'You Americans are funny. "'You won't show up unless "'there's a good speaker or a band. "'In India, people get excited just to pray.' "He proceeded to tell how "believers back home loved communion, "and how they flocked to simple prayer gatherings." First of all, this story itself shocked me and I was like, oh! Like, I've never thought of that and do we do that? Would we flock to a prayer meeting? Do we crave prayer? The Bible is just so adamant about prayer, God's so adamant about our prayer life. Jesus dying on the cross tore the veil from top to bottom so that we can actually have direct line of contact with the Father Himself. That we no longer need an earthly priest, we have a high priest, Jesus Himself, who intercedes for us and gives us direct access. [Jennifer] Which is incredible, do we take advantage of that? Yeah. We should be. [Aaron] And I think this started a really long conversation, actually, right before bed, but later on in the chapter he says, "It is His desire for all His children "to experience the fullness of Him through the church "and has given us His word to show us how. "Let's dream of trembling believers on their knees, "speechless because they grabbed the weight "of speaking to Yahweh. "Let's picture small groups and large crowds "coming with eager expectation just to pray. "This is possible." And so, this book, I'm really liking the book. There's a few things that I've wrestled with but this prayer stuff, we talked for probably an hour, just about our spiritual stamina, our prayer. Like, are we even giving prayer the time of day that it deserves in our life? So, Babe, when I read that, because I read it out loud to us in bed, and just how he was dreaming of believers on their knees praying and speechless and eager expectation just to pray. How does that make you feel? [Jennifer] I think it draws out of my heart just this eagerness to do it more. Sometimes we have these emotions and feelings in our hearts and we can't even put words to them until you read someone else's writing and then it's like, "Oh, that's what it is." And I've been feeling this way for a while and I feel like that was, his words, like, just hearing you read them out loud, was like, "Yes, that's it." Like, we need more of that and earlier you had mentioned that we had been praying for what's next and that specifically came from when I had gotten away for a couple days for a women's retreat and there was 15 of us and we each took turns sitting in what we called the hot seat and it was just a chair in the middle of the room but each one of the women there basically just shared a prayer request and then we all prayed specifically for that woman-- One by one. One by one. Every single woman. It took us, like, three hours or so to get through and when it was my turn, I remember just thinking like, I feel ready for what God has for, for whatever's next for me and for us and so that's kind of where that came from and I'll tell you what, the experience of that prayer time was so powerful, not just in my life, but in all the women's lives there and it made me, when I got home, it made me think of how when you're gone at a retreat or you're gone at a conference, there's this spiritual high. That you walk away feeling like you're just so close to God and you really experienced something truly miraculous and what I felt like God was sharing with me about that specifically is that it was because we devoted time to Him. We sat for three and a half hours and prayed over each individual person, in prayer talking to God, like, petitioning for these prayer requests and then we expect in our daily life to just go through whatever we have, whatever requirements that we have on our day to day agendas and we think that we're gonna experience God the same way without going to our prayer closet, without being on our knees, without lifting up those requests to Him, without being thankful for things and just talking to Him and sharing our heart with Him, we expect the same spiritual high. [Aaron] Yeah, and God doesn't want us to have spiritual highs and lows, He wants us to be consistent with Him. What's funny is you said, so you planned that whole retreat and all the women just raved about it and you were telling me, though, you were like, "I planned all these great things "and they were all fun, like these games "and these conversations and they were great, "but the most powerful thing we did was the prayer." [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] And it was that you said, "It felt miraculous, "it felt like we were in the presence of God "as women coming together for the purpose "of praying for each other," and as we talk about this, I feel like the thing we've been feeling is that we're missing something. Like you said, we expect to experience God in the same way in those dedicated, devoted times as we do in our every day life when we don't dedicate or devote time. And so, the stamina side of that is we need to devote time to practicing and walking in those things. You know, at bedtime. One thing that we've realized is we could be spending more time in prayer. Are we cultivating an environment where we get to bed early enough and even if not, early enough, and prayer is a priority at bedtime, together? [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] Praying for our kids, praying for our family members, praying for our church, and I feel like that's where the stamina comes from, is the devotion and the time that we set aside for it. [Jennifer] And I feel like, as we practice it and we stretch that spiritual muscle, we'll get even better at it. [Aaron] And that's the goal, right? That we get better which means we're closer to God, we're closer to Jesus, we become more like Him, more transformed into His image and so that's what we're talking about today and what's funny is, it's not like we have done this yet, right? Our heart is that we're gonna start walking in this ourselves and start examining areas of our life where we need more spiritual stamina. [Jennifer] Yeah. [Aaron] You actually challenged us this morning-- [Jennifer] Well, because this has been a conversation with us. You do Bible time every morning with the kids, which I absolutely love. I love seeing you lead in that way and you read through a chapter and you put it away and we went to go pray and I'm like actually, I think we can handle more. And you said-- [Aaron] Yeah, going back to our Sunday conversation. [Jennifer] Yeah, and so you said, "You're right," and so you pulled it back out and you just told the kids, "Hey, we're gonna read a little bit more today," and you read a-whole-nother chapter. [Aaron] Yeah, and I will say it was in Luke chapter 21, was the first chapter we read and then chapter 22 was significantly longer, but we did it and the kids totally handled it. Yeah, they got a little squirmy and even in my own flesh, I could feel myself feeling like, okay, this is just going long, but that's the only way we're gonna do it. Didn't we, when I started doing Bible time, wasn't it just a verse? [Jennifer] It was a couple verses, it was so brief, yeah. I feel like it was five minutes, max. Maybe if that. [Aaron] Probably a couple minutes and now we're at a full chapter, so just for those that are listening or wondering about family Bible time, start small and build up the stamina. Build up your ability and your kids' ability to listen and hear more and handle more time in the word of God. [Jennifer] And I just wanna add something specifically for kids, because when we build our spiritual stamina, they're seeing our example and the way that we lead in that way. Oh, that's good. And that's gonna help them as adults and so I just wanna encourage those listening with kids that it's our job, it's our privilege, it's our obligation as Christians to lead our children in this way and I'll be honest, sometimes I lean heavily on my husband to lead in this way and it's like I think, we already did Bible time and so therefore when I'm doing school with them and Aaron's off to work that I don't need to pray with them, or at least I think like, check off the box, that's already been done, but if I wanna build their spiritual stamina, I'm going to go into prayer or read the Word or teach whatever I need to teach of God's ways at any time throughout the day and that's kind of been the blessing of being at home to homeschool them but today, specifically, as this theme has been playing out in our lives and we've been thinking about spiritual stamina, I, during school, stopped and made the kids sit on the floor and we all held hands and I said, "We're gonna pray. "We're gonna pray specifically for some friends "that are going through a hard time right now," and each one of the kids prayed and it was really incredible. [Aaron] And that's good and that's building our stamina and how could we ever expect our children to fall in love with the word of God, grow spiritually, love God if they don't see us walking in those ways? We can't expect something different from them that we wouldn't expect of ourselves. And so the desire that we have to grow spiritually, to get better at being in the word of God and to get better at prayer. Not that these things commend us to God but they make us more like Him and because our heart is like, "Man, Lord, we wanna be like You, we wanna walk with You, we wanna know You," that's where this desire is coming from. This craving of getting stronger and more fit in the word of God, activating the things that we're learning, walking in the ways that we're reading in the word of God. [Jennifer] So we were dong family Bible time this morning and you wanna share about what we read? [Aaron] Yeah, 'cause again, there's this theme. There was Sunday morning, there was Sunday night in the book I was reading and then this morning, Monday morning, we're reading in Luke and it's Luke chapter 22 and it's just, this is about Jesus praying. He's about to go to the cross and I just wanna read the scripture verbatim and then we'll talk about it. It's in Luke chapter 22, verse 39, "And He came out and went, as was His custom, "to the Mount of Olives and the disciples followed Him. "And when He came to the place, He said to them, "'Pray that you may not enter into temptation.'" I just wanna stop right there for a second because you actually pointed this out this morning, you're like, "He asked them to pray "not to enter into temptation?" Jesus loved his disciples and He asked them, He said, "Guys, pray that you don't enter into temptation." Especially knowing that Peter was about to be tempted to deny Him. He knew he was gonna deny Him, three times, and Jesus was like, "Hey guys, "pray so that you won't enter into temptation." He's like, it's not just a warning, it's like a hey, this is what you can do, this is what you should do so that you won't do the other thing. [Jennifer] And this is the same, this is true for us. Yeah. Right? [Aaron] And then he says in verse 41, "And He withdrew from them, about a stone's throw "and knelt down and prayed, saying, "'Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me. "'Nevertheless, not My will but Yours be done.' "And there appeared to Him "an angel from Heaven, strengthening Him, "and being in agony, He prayed more earnestly "and His sweat became like great drops of blood "falling down to the ground. "And when He rose from prayer, "He came to the disciples "and found them sleeping for sorrow. "And He said to them, 'Why are you sleeping? "'Rise and pray that you may not enter into temptation.'" [Jennifer] Okay, so hold on. So, Jesus was in agony and He kept praying. [Aaron] He prayed more. [Jennifer] He prayed more, more earnestly. So, that shows some stamina and I think that this moves my heart so much because I think of everybody going through hard times, everybody goes through, in their own way, they have to face circumstances, conflict, whatever it is. How can we have the stamina to face those things earnestly through prayer, if we're not doing it when times are easy? [Aaron] Yeah, and it would be easy to say, "Well, like, he's Jesus," but the Bible tells us that Jesus was like us. He was tempted in the same way, He had physical limitations and weaknesses in the flesh but without sin and so it says that he was in agony, sweating as it were drops of blood, that's how much agony He was in, knowing what He was about to face on the cross. But yet, He prayed and said, "Not My will be done but Yours." And so the template we get here is that we pray God's will for our life, that we do it even when we're in agony and more earnestly and I just like He says, He says, "Why are you sleeping?" And I feel like us, it's almost as if we've been sleeping and God's looking at us saying, "Wake up. "Wake up, the time is drawing near, "get on your face and pray." do you feel like that, Babe? Yeah. Do you feel like He's telling us to wake up? [Jennifer] Yeah, I do. I mean, I feel like in a lot of ways, we do fulfill these scriptures and we do try and walk in righteousness and walk in the ways that He's called every Christian to, through His word but yet so often, we neglect it or we forget or we think we're doing fine until we read things like this and it hits us head-on that Jesus Himself was in agony and He continues to pray earnestly, and that's our example. And are we doing that? [Aaron] Yeah, and I think about, He says, "Rise up and pray that you may not enter into temptation." I think of the normal temptations to sin, but how often are we tempted to just not pray? To not be in the word of God? [Jennifer] To do something else, to go on social media? [Aaron] Gosh, that's like, my story. It's everyone's story. I go to bed and I'm like, "Oh, I'm gonna read the Bible," and then, boom, I'm on my phone. [Jennifer] It's everyone's story right now. [Aaron] Yeah, so let's wake up, Christians. We're gonna do this with you. Let's wake up from our spiritual slumber and our lack of fervor for spiritual things. The Bible tells us to desire that which is from above, Heavenly things, and I want that. I wanna pray more. I wanna be in the word of God more. I wanna be in close unity and fellowship with other believers more. If in prayer, and in the word of God, I'm thinking about this Sunday in teaching on this idea and practicing it and just reading through several chapters in the word of God, just to get our stamina for the word of God. [Jennifer] I think it's important, I think we need it. [Aaron] Yeah, and so we should try that. Remind me to do that this weekend, I'll prepare something. So that was the scriptures that we read this morning to our kids, again about prayer and just seeing Jesus's example in that. And then I just wanna, really quick, this is to emphasize that I believe God's just hammering home in our marriage currently, this idea that God wants us praying. So last night, I could not sleep. I don't know if you know this or not but I literally was dreaming all night and when I dream, I don't feel like I've slept at all. I remember waking up at 12:00 and then 1:30 and then 3:30 and then at 4:30, finally, I woke up, and I started praying for the person I was dreaming about. I was like, "Okay Lord, I had this dream "about a friend of mine and I had the dream all night "and it was really distressing to me," and I finally just woke up and I just prayed for him. I don't think the dream is true but I believe that he needed prayer, and so I just started praying for him. And then I had another person, another friend of mine that moved away, and I haven't thought about him in a little while, and so this morning, after I got back from the gym, I just started praying for him. And what's awesome is, he sends me a message, or he actually posted about me today, just saying he wanted to like go do a run with me, or something like that, and I went and I just messaged him and I said, "Hey, how are you doing? I'm praying for you." And he lets me know that stuff's going on in his life, that I didn't know about and I was like, "Man! Well, I'm praying for you, "I'm here for you, let me know what's going on." And I was like, "Okay, Lord." [Jennifer] That's really cool. [Aaron] Like, you want me to pray? Like, I'm gonna pray. And it's not for my sake, it's for others' sake and it's also for just hearing God's voice, which I think is awesome. [Jennifer] Yeah, well I think that when our hearts are yielded in that way and submissive to God in that way, we hear Him and He can speak to us and He can lead us and He can show us things or present opportunities like, with your friend, texting back and forth, would you have even had that opportunity if your heart wasn't tender enough to be praying for him? [Aaron] Probably not. I wouldn't have been thinking about him, I wouldn't have been ready. I might have, like, if I talked to him later, said, "Oh, I'll pray for you," but it encouraged me to know that God had already had me working in the spirit on his behalf. Which I think is a really awesome thing. And think about the body, the entire body of Christ, the church, what it would look like if we were praying like this for each other? Just always in prayer for each other. It'd be powerful. [Aaron] Now, what would it look like in our marriages? What would it look like if I was praying for you every morning? Which I do, I pray for you, but I don't pray for you the way I could be. Do you feel like you feel pray for me like that, and if you don't, what would you think would happen if you were praying for me, just fervently and daily and hourly, sometimes? [Jennifer] Well, there has been seasons of our marriage where I know for a fact that you're wrestling with something or you need help with something or you're down and like, I can sense that, or we've talked about something specific and those are the times that I feel like I really go to God in prayer for you, on your behalf, and then there's other times where I feel like we're good and I'm not in that same heart of prayer. [Aaron] Right, we're good, we don't need it. [Jennifer] Not that we don't need it, but like, I know if someone says, "Prayer is amazing, "you need to be praying," I'm like, "I know." But am I walking in that faithfully, with fervor, with my knees on the ground for you? I don't fight for you like that, like I should be, every single day. [Aaron] Right, and we get reminded in the word of God that the battles that we face are not battles against flesh and blood, but they're spiritual battles, against the powers in the air and the spiritual forces and we get to battle, as our Pastor Matt always says, he says that prayer isn't the preparation for the battle, prayer is the battle. We could be battling for each other. I could be battling for you that God's walking with you and helping you and encouraging you in your faith, in your abilities as a mother, in your strength as a wife and you could be praying for me for being protected from temptation and walking in leadership and getting wiser and all these things that we could be praying for on a constant basis. [Jennifer] What I found to be so impactful about marriage is that when we are yielded in this way, to be praying, especially for our spouse, when I'm praying for you, my heart's not focused on myself, it's not about me, it's about you and if my heart's in that position, then what's gonna happen in my actions as we interact with each other throughout the rest of the day? I'm gonna be mindful of you, I'm gonna be thoughtful of you, I'm gonna be thinking about your needs and thinking about how I can serve you, love you, help you versus the other way around which is me, me, me. [Aaron] Right, and that goes to that scripture, I believe it's First Thessalonians that says, "Pray without ceasing." It's not that we are literally on our knees praying 24/7, it's that we are in constant communion with the Father, who, when we do that, changes us, speaks to us, walks with us, guides us, puts our eyes on the things that He wants our eyes on, puts words in our mouths that He wants us to speak, has us hear things He wants us to hear, and so prayer does that. It turns our hearts to God, which then turns our hearts to what He wants. So I love this. I think that as marriages, we should just pray and we're gonna be doing this, pray that God would give us a heart for prayer. That he would grow our spiritual stamina for the word of God, for prayer and that we would see fruit from it, good fruit. And so I think we should go into a time of prayer. What do you think about that, Babe? [Jennifer] I feel good. I feel like it's necessary and needed and I think that we need to be praying specifically for the body of Christ even more. I feel like we're entering into a season where the body needs it more than ever. [Aaron] Right, so we're gonna go into a time of prayer and I'm gonna pray for some of the things that the community, you guys, gave me to pray for and we'll pray for some other things and then we'll close it out. [Jennifer] We wanna invite you guys to pray along with us and if anything comes up in your heart that you need prayer for or that your spouse needs prayer for, just take a minute and just pray for them. [Aaron] Father God, I just wanna come before You and I wanna lift up marriages all over the world, marriages who love You, marriages who desire to see Your will done in their life. Father, I pray that You would reveal Yourself to them, that You would draw them so close to You, God, that they would know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they're Yours and that You desire to use them in mighty ways. Father, I specifically wanna pray for those marriages who are struggling with illness. I know many marriages have real illnesses, real bad things that they're dealing with, hard things, things that they've been dealing with for years, even. I pray, Father, for complete healing. I pray that even if they aren't healed, Father God, that their hearts would be yielded to You, that they would trust You and know that You are doing good things in their life. I pray, Father, that they would lean on You in their weakness because, Father, You tell us in Your word that in our weakness, Your strength is made perfect, and so I pray that in their lives, Your strength would be made perfect and they would know it. I pray that they would rejoice in their afflictions, in their sickness, that people that are watching them and that are wanting to them to be better, Father God, would see their joy, would see their resolve and would know, God, that they are walking with You and that they would be a testimony to people that are watching them. I also wanna pray for marriages that are dealing with infidelity, Father God, and unfaithfulness. I pray Lord that you would convict the hearts of those who are not walking in faithfulness with their spouse; that Lord, You would change them and transform them and rebuke them, if necessary, and that You would bring other Christians alongside them to rebuke them as well; and that they would turn their hearts to You, that they would repent and that they would change their ways and that You would redeem those marriages, Father God. We just, we pray in Your mighty name, in the name that is above all names, Jesus Christ, and we ask, Lord, that you would change those marriages and that they would be a testimony for you; that anyone who would see and hear their story would know that there is a God in Heaven; that they would know that You are the one true God, because they see that Your hand was in their marriage and that You redeem them and save them. [Jennifer] God, I just thank You so much for these marriages, I thank You for these husbands and wives and the purposes that You have for each one of us and I just pray, Lord, that as we draw closer to You, that Your holy Spirit would just continue to guide us and continue to lead us, continue to give us stamina, Lord, for Your word, give us stamina for our prayer life and for talking to You and just coming before You with our requests and our thankfulness and everything that's going on in our lives, Lord, and I just pray that we would have stamina in our family lives, that we would be present. I pray, Lord, that each one of us would know the roles that we have with our children and other people's children, that you would just reveal to us, just how influential each one of us are in their lives and I pray, Lord, that we would have stamina with them, that we would be patient and kind and compassionate and caring as we disciple them and draw them closer to you. God, I thank You so much that these marriages desire to draw closer to You and I just pray that we would all experience more intimacy with You. I pray that we would experience more intimacy in our marriages. God, I pray that every marriage after God would build their foundation and establish it according to Your word, that we wouldn't let a day go by without reading your word. God, please remind us every day that we are lights of Your testimony, especially for this world, this dark world, Lord. I just pray that we would know what purposes we have to fulfill in this life and I pray that we would walk in the ways that You've already established for us to walk. God, I pray against the enemy. I pray against his flaming arrows and the ways that he tries to attack us and I pray that he would not get in the way of what You're trying to do on our lives. I also pray against our flesh and the temptations that come to draw us away from You and I just pray, Lord, that we would be stronger than that, that we would be able to walk righteously and pure and God, I just pray that Your Holy Spirit would help us in this way. God, I specifically wanna lift up some requests that came from the community and that was around job and work and I just pray, Lord, that as people transition in and out of jobs, with changes, I pray that for those who don't have a job right now, I just pray for all of it, Lord. That You would just continue to guide each one of us as we pursue the work that You have for us, and regardless of the circumstances, whether we're in work, in job changes or out of work, that we would continue to be a light for Your namesake, that we would be a testimony to those around us, of faithfulness and perseverance and hope. I pray, Lord, that whatever work that we do, that we would do it unto You. I also wanna lift up finances too, Lord, and I just pray that each one of us would steward well all that You have given to us. If there are couples in debt, Lord, I just pray that You would inspire them to change their ways, that they would do everything that they can to get out of that debt and that they would lead their families well in the area of finances. I pray that we would be a generous people, people who don't cling to what they have but that they're holding it open handed so that You can guide and direct wherever You need those resources to go. God, I pray that You would be able to trust every marriage with the finances that You have placed in their lives and that we would just steward them well, Lord. God, I just thank You so much for our marriages and I just continually ask that Your Holy Spirit would lead us and guide us and draw us closer to You each and every day. [Aaron] Father, we love You and we thank You for the things You give us in our life. The blessings, the hard things even, we thank You for all of it, Lord. You love us, You desire for us to mature and to grow and to become the men and women You've called us to be. You desire that our marriages would be used to grow Your kingdom, to spread Your gospel and Father, we just wanna give You all the glory and all the honor, You deserve it all. You are so good to us, Father, and we thank You for it all and we just pray these things in Your Holy Son's name, Amen. So we thank you for joining us today, I know this was a little bit of a unique episode and we just pray that all of us, that me and my wife, that you and your spouse would begin to grow in our spiritual stamina, that we would fall in love with prayer, fall in love with the word of God and that we would crave more and more of it every day so that God would use it to change us, to transform us, to make us more like his Son, Jesus. And the reason for it all is that He would use us, that we'd be used to point people to Him. We thank you for joining us and we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

Changing up the format a bit. New equipment, where we are at with the podcast and where we are going. Just a short update. Happy holidays! Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

A stressful holiday season with all the planning and shopping and traffic is seemingly impossible to avoid. But what if there was a way to enjoy this holiday season with peace and joy rather then stress and anxiety? Well, we believe this is possible. -- Take our 31-day marriage prayer challenge today and join the 1000's of couples who have done it. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com/products/thirty-one-prayers-bundle -- FOR MORE MARRIAGE ENCOURAGEMENT https://marriageaftergod.com https://instagram.com/marriageaftergod SHOP MARRIAGE RESOURCES https://shop.marriageaftergod.com FOR WIVES https://unveiledwife.com https://facebook.com/unveiledwife FOR HUSBANDS https://husbandrevolution.com https://facebook.com/HusbandRevolution READ: Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. And today we're gonna share how to enjoy a stress-free holiday season. Thank you so much for joining us this week and we're really excited to jump into today's episode. Yeah, before we get started, as usual want to invite you to subscribe to our channel so you get notified every time we upload a new episode. So it's that time of the year where holidays are coming up, we got Thanksgiving, we got Christmas. Lots of family stuff going on. Yeah, family time, we got Black Friday, Cyber Monday. Some people see those as holidays. -Yeah. They're spending holidays. So we just thought we'd share some tips on how to have a stress-free holiday. So why don't you give tip number one and then we'll just run through these? Okay. Okay, so the first tip is make sure to plan, when you have everyone over at your house, to do a recipe for dinner that you've never done before. And it's really special if you only give yourself the exact amount of time to get it done. Like a super complicated Pinterest recipe. Super complicated, pictures perfect. It's like 10 courses, dessert, three turkeys, brisket. Like everything, right? And tell everyone don't worry about bringing anything, just make sure you put all that burden and pressure on yourself just so that you can wow 'em, you know? Yeah. Number two. That's a good one. Number two is remember that if you don't provide a perfect, perfect holiday event that everyone's gonna realize that you actually don't love them. Sad. Like if you don't just put it all together perfectly, when you realize that, it'll help you just to do it right so that you get every single thing right and it's just super special. So that's number two. Just to have a stress-free holiday. What's number three? So the third one is keep really high expectations up because if you keep high expectations up on how everything will go, then you're usually more motivated and more excited about that specific day. Yeah, like so high that you like need like a step-up stool to get to the top shelf of expectations, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah, those are the special ones to meet your expectations. Yeah, at the end of the year where all the expectations just like, it's like the power expectation. Yeah, like how this is gonna go is gonna set the tone for all of the next year. All next year. Yeah, exactly. The fourth tip is don't shop online because shopping online is too easy because then you can just wait for it, it comes in the mail and you-- It's boring. You can't like touch the gifts. Yeah, you want to go like the day before, you know, Christmas or-- On a weekend. Yeah, right when everyone's going because that way you can do with other people. It's more communal. And everyone's looking for the same things so it makes the shopping experience just much more eventful. Yeah, and all the traffic to get there, right? I mean, all the red brake lights. That's what I have in my mind when-- And that's time so you just really contemplate how those expectations you just talked about are gonna get fulfilled. Yeah, when I think of holidays, I think of lights, you know, colorful lights. I think of those red tail lights and like traffic jams and lots of long lines and it's just fun, it's fun to be remembering how that is a significant part of shopping. Yeah, that's awesome, we have to come more. What's the next one? So the next one kind of goes along with shopping on the weekends during the holiday season but it's make sure that you get everyone in your family the gifts that they want. And friends and extended family because they all, there's also something they all need, right. Yeah, get everyone everything that they want and if you do it that way, you won't miss anyone and you won't hurt anyone's feeling by not getting them what they wanted. So just be real specific and get 'em what they want. Yeah, and then that goes to the the last tip is because you're getting everything everyone wants, just put it on credit. That way you don't have to worry about not having the money now. Right, right, worry about it next year. Yeah, you can worry about it next year. Like it's-- Stress-free holiday now. Yeah. So of course we're kidding. We do this every once in a while, we give these fake tips. This is a typical holiday I would imagine. It's funny. But I think that these six tips we gave should be thrown out. Because they don't work really. No, they do the opposite. This is we're used to, this is what we're accustomed to, this is what happens, but it doesn't provide that stress-free-- And I don't know about our listeners but this has been, not the credit part, but this has been our lives of like hey, if I get so-and-so one thing, do I have to also get these three people something? Like if I don't get them and then I get them something, are they gonna realize that I didn't and we just have like all of our emotions wrapped up in like what we're getting for someone or how we're preparing an evening or having the most epic recipe. Yeah. And well, I know we were joking about that but I think sometimes we do want to impress people and we want to make sure that they don't have to worry about anything so we put all that pressure on ourselves and we don't usually give ourselves enough time and the other people will miss out on, you know, I don't know, sharing in that blessing of-- Well, so thinking about the food thing. For this year, I'm currently, I'm gonna be smoking a turkey for the first time ever. And so I kind of have some high expectations for myself. For yourself, yeah. Yeah, I'm like, oh, I want this to be the best turkey ever. I'm like looking up like special recipes. And so I just need to have some really level expectations of like okay, like what's our back-up plan if I fail at this turkey? Well, as you're talking, I'm thinking okay, and I also have-- Frozen hamburgers. Yeah, no, that's not gonna fly. Okay, but check it out. So I was just thinking as you're talking about expectations and specifically smoking this turkey because you smoking even chicken in the past, I'm sitting there going okay, the sides are done, when is it gonna be ready? So I have to time this better. Yeah, so you're gonna have to time it really good so that my expectations are met, please. Okay. -I'm just kidding. No, but I should probably lower my expectations as well on that one. And know that to get it perfect, it might take a little bit longer to get it just right. Anyways we did the funny tips, these atypical sort of advice that no one would ever give you but we all kind of walk it in some form or fashion. We all do it anyways. But what we want to do is we actually want to walk through just some higher level tips to actually lower the stress. Because these holidays that the world and society has put so much weight on don't actually have to be weighty. They could be very enjoyable and very peaceful and not stressful. Yeah. So before we jump into those real tips, because we're talking about the holiday season, I thought it would be fun to just share with our listeners, you know, maybe some of our favorite memories growing up from our childhood. We can give some of that perspective of like what does a child think about these holidays coming up? Yeah, cuz when we were kids, we didn't think about all of the work or energy that went into it putting it together. Right, we just enjoyed it. We just, yeah, we had fun. So you asked me before we started this episode, you know, what is one of my favorite holiday memories? And I sighed because I'm like, man, I'm really bad at the nostalgia stuff because-- Oh, remembering. Yeah, remembering it. But I just think like I don't remember most presents I ever got. I actually maybe remember one present. I remember all the presents I didn't get. The boots. The boots. I remember like that side of that stuff but I mostly remember going and being around family. Like I remember being excited every time we'd go to my grandparents house and all of my cousins and all of my uncles and everyone was there. And I also remember like loving that there was a lot of food. Like it didn't matter what it was actually, there was one thing. As long as there is candied yams. -That is probably still our favorite part. That's literally my favorite part of this season, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Oh, that and eggnog. Oh, eggnog for sure. That's kind of like the only tradition I have in my life is like I have to drink eggnog. And it can't be mixed with anything. It just has to be pure, thick, delicious. A good brand of eggnog. Yeah, local eggnog. So like yeah, when we're thinking about all the things that now that we're adults might bring us stress, when we were kids the things that we enjoyed about the holidays. It was people and food, I feel like the majority. Yeah, gifts, and like just it was the things that we don't think about now necessarily. We don't remember as kids all the things that made it maybe difficult or heavy or we didn't think about money back then, we didn't think about time or work or all these things that now we think about. So it's a good perspective to think like, oh, well, you know, what our kids experience isn't necessarily what we experience. But we can make them experience it good or bad in the way we think about it. What was one of your favorite experiences growing up with the holidays? Yeah. I would say it was spending time with family and even just running around doing things together was really enjoyable and just seeing the decorations, so whether we were driving or walking in a neighborhood where there was Christmas lights. Oh yeah. You family still does that. Yeah, we still do that. We love that. Christmas light drives. Yeah, we really love that. But just spending time together, I really feel like that was stand out to me. My stepdad and I, we'll still joke about going Christmas shopping and we'd get all, every kid would have a cart and we'd sit on the back of the last person's cart and do like a train through the store. You guys ever do that? Oh, no. Oh, that was really fun for us. There's only ever two of us. Oh, right, we have a little bit bigger family so that was really fun. And then the food. Just you know, always knowing that we were gonna go and we're gonna either make it together or eat it together. You know, all of those things were stand out to me. That's good. So there's some common themes on just the simple things that we remember, not the complicated hard things necessarily. Oh, and Christmas Eves service. Like going to church, we all dressed up. It was the one day a year that we all dressed up in our nicest outfits and did our hair and there was always a little bit of chaos surrounding it. We got to get there on time. But doing like candlelight service, that was always something that I look forward to. Something that you started when we got married, or when we had Elliot I should say, was always opening a gift the night before. Oh yeah. Sorry, I just can't wait. -Yeah, but that's what your family's always done. We've always just enjoyed that. And not me. My family wouldn't let me open them until like after every single person was up, after everyone was showered, after we had breakfast, after the house was clean, after. It's like noon, we're like opening presents. It wasn't that late. Yeah, can't make kids wait that long. Well, another reason, I don't know if you know this, why I like opening gifts early too is because growing up, my parents were divorced and so we had split holidays where I would spend Christmas Eve with my mom, Christmas Day with my dad, and so I kind of did get gifts on both days and so I liked getting them early too. But you liked spending time with the people more probably. Yeah, yeah. So why don't we talk about some tips? Cuz I'm sure everyone that's listening has similar things that they think about, similar experiences, and we're all gonna be different in little nuances but I think overall there's a universal way that we can be in any types of events to be more stress if you have peace, to view these holidays more soberly and enjoy them more. So why don't we talk through some tips that all of our listeners can walk through in their own marriage and practice and start to implement and talk about, and maybe everyone will have a very peaceful simple holiday season. Yeah, well, I think just the the overall tip that I want to mention first was making sure that your heart is right, you know, going into the season. But like that requires you to be intentional every day, to kind of do a heart check and say where am I, what am I thinking about, what's going on, and going before the Lord and if you have expectations or you have hopes and you have specific things that you hope would happen during this time, giving them to him and saying hey, God, could this happen? And just laying it before him. And if it doesn't, be okay with that. Yeah. So that's a good starting point, just checking our hearts. We learned that in the Bible that it's good to examine ourselves, where we're at with all of this stuff, what's our expectations, what's our perceptions do we have, dispositions towards things? Me, I personally have always had a disposition of and people have called me Scrooge. You don't want to be forced to celebrate. I don't like feeling manipulated into like all year round, not a single person thinks anything of me if I don't get him a gift. But I feel like this season like Christmas season, all of a sudden I feel like, well, certain people, are they gonna feel a certain way if I don't get them something and I just, I don't like the way that feels. Now I've had to adjust a lot of my own heart and overall thinking. But yeah, that's been my disposition. I don't know if it was just the way I was raised or just my natural way of being of not liking to being told what to do by society, by commercials. And your disposition has been that it's a special sacred time and there's always like we have to have a Christmas tree and we have to, like you see like an experience that makes you feel a certain way. Yeah, I like to enjoy all the little things and, but almost to the point where I'm not flexible with giving things up if it doesn't happen or getting upset. Right, because the advice you just gave of evaluating here. You've never, not never, but you don't usually stop and say okay, all these things that I love about this season, I'm gonna hand them to you Lord and like what do you want to change in me? Is there something you want me to recognize about myself? Instead of just controlling it and being like I want it to be this way. Which on my end, I'm like throw it all out, I won't do any of it. I think I even asked this year, I was like are we doing a Christmas tree this year? So with them listening and hearing how we're so kind of opposite in this area, I wonder if they think we fight over the holiday season. Sometimes. We do. It happens. Which is why we're talking about this stuff. And that's why it's so important to check our hearts. That's why I wanted to start with that one because all these tips that we're gonna talk about right now go back to this one thing that's your heart and your heart matters, so okay, so. Okay, so number one is communicate. So being able to, I feel like we, every time we do a tip list, we start out with communicate but it's so important. Yeah and most people don't know how to communicate. Like how do I share that I'm not interested in getting a Christmas tree when I know for a fact you absolutely 100% want a Christmas tree? And that's where like in their situations, they're gonna have something maybe similar where one person has a certain idea or way of wanting to do it and the other person has another one. I might not be able to come to you and say hey, can we evaluate this year whether we want to do that or not? Because I might be afraid that you're gonna be broken or hurt or like how could you not want to do? That's what we always have done. But it's not right for you to not say anything just because there's eggshells all around me and you don't want to crack them, so. So not only do we need to give each other room to communicate but then we have to communicate. Yeah. And without an agenda of like I'm gonna communicate because that's exactly what I want. Especially if it's not that big of a deal. But it could be this year I don't think it's wise for us to spend money on the Christmas tree and that's my reasoning behind it. Maybe we're just so busy with other things that we're not going to go cut one down or we're not gonna be able to afford one because, man, they're expensive if you don't go cut one yourself. And a lot of people can't cut themselves. And that's just one example but. So a few things to communicate about is feelings, like how you explain like what your feelings about the holidays and these specific events and with certain people coming and how you might, maybe you're like hey, so-and-so's coming over and actually I have some anxiety about it because of these few reasons. How can you help me navigate this or how should I be thinking about this? So that I can then encourage you or vice versa in the Word of God, in prayer to be preparing our hearts. Maybe we need to change plans. So feelings about the whole thing. Yeah, potential plans, communicating. Like kind of like what you mentioned, this is what we have tentatively on the calendar and just giving your spouse a heads up of like this is what we've already committed to, this what we've said yes to, this is the family that's gonna be in town, this is how we're gonna roll it out. Yeah. Family values, this is the big one, going back to the heart thing. Asking ourselves, communicating with each other like what do we actually value as a family? Is it getting lots of gifts, like we just want to make this like an all out or is it like we want to be simpler, we want to teach more intrinsic things. We want to just teach just being together, reading together, listening to certain songs together, singing together, learning something new together, serving together. Like what are our values and how can we wrap everything else around our values and what do we need to get rid of that are kind of ancillary to our values? Like oh, we don't need to do those things or that we're doing for another motive and it doesn't really fit into what we are as a family or what we want to teach our children, right? Like just one example would be like let's say if it comes to gifts. Instead of everyone getting five gifts, maybe, and we've done this before, like one little tiny gift and like one learning gift and one gift that they really want. Or one gift or just a dollar amount that we want to spend. Some people, and we've talked about this even, do like a give and get. Like hey, you're gonna get a gift but is there something that you want to give to someone else and how-- Your siblings, yeah. So practicing those things like what are our values as a family? And then the last one, it would be expectations on all of these things. You have to identify what those are before you can communicate them, so this goes back to checking your heart and thinking and considering about how you want this holiday season to be and then sitting down with your spouse and communicating that. Yeah, so lots of communication about all these things and continual communication. Yeah, and I think the key to this type of communication, especially if you want a stress-free holiday is to communicate with humility leading your heart. Yeah. And asking the Lord like you said in the beginning, what his heart is for the holiday. Yeah, yeah, don't skip over what he wants for you. Yeah, are we just like kind of gonna do our own thing or are we gonna actually say okay, Lord, what do you want to happen? Because if you do it that way, then he's at the center of all of it, right? Yeah. And he could even pull out of us something that he wants to change in us about the way we view it or the things that we want or don't want. Yeah, and oftentimes when you keep God at the center of your relationship like that, what I've known from experience is that it can even change your heart or perspective towards your spouse. Like if if you guys aren't in agreeance over how many gifts are gonna be given or what family is gonna come over or whether you're gonna get that Christmas tree or not, instead of arguing about it, God actually changes your heart or changes their heart on the matter so that you guys can be in unity and enjoy that season. That's good. So the next thing we want to talk about, we just talked about expectations but now we're going to go into expectations. So just the idea of letting go, being flexible, and having very light expectations. Because again, these days are just days. Like yes, they have some meaning to them, yes they're they're an opportunity to celebrate something like the birth of our Lord, you know, those kinds of things, but they are just another day. The Bible doesn't give us directives on how to do these holidays and that we need to be observing them. These are actually not biblical ideas at all. We celebrate biblical things during them but they're not necessary, they're not required, they're not a thing that the Christian must do to be a Christian. So just having that mentality of like okay, my expectation is this is another day and we're gonna celebrate Jesus and we're gonna celebrate Thanksgiving. But are our expectations above and beyond what they need to be? Are we setting too high of expectations or are we being real and saying okay, Lord, like I want to be so like low on my expectation. Not low. I use the word light because it's not low expectations. It's not like you don't have to have expectations. You can have expectations, you're just saying they don't need to be so lofty that they're almost unattainable. Because the problem with that is, let's just be real for a minute, if you had these high expectations and let's say your kids get sick or your husband's running late or whatever, how is that gonna dictate your attitude or are you gonna lash out, are you gonna be frustrated, are you gonna stomp around the house? And I'm using this because I've done it before. I'm just recognizing like why expectations can be so dangerous in someone's heart when they're not met. Well, and then asking ourselves where the expectations are coming from. So our expectations usually come from one of two places, external forces or internal ones. Is it an expectation that I put on myself for this holiday like oh, I want everyone to know that I've got it all together, that this is gonna be amazing, that they're gonna all be taken care of by me either as the husband or the wife, like whatever their expectations are internally. Or is it external? Oh, my in-laws are coming and they're gonna be expecting an extravaganza, they're gonna be expecting me to have it all together, and there's lots of other reasons. My friends or my social media accounts, like what they see from my family. But even then like even though those are external places, that still comes from an internal place because those people might not even be thinking what you think they're thinking. That's true. There are all these expectations that we have, they're internal motivations of like oh, I don't want to look this way or that way or I do want to look this way or that way. And those aren't good things. Those are so unhealthy and they're dangerous and we do it in many, many, many areas but they often rear their ugly head in a season of heightened expectation and respond, and things that are drawing us. Yeah and I think that's where the chaos comes from. A large chunk of it, the stress comes during the holiday seasons from these expectations. Yeah, well, and we have to remember that, like I was just saying, these holidays are not things that the Bible's insist you did and called us to remember. Like the Bible tells us to remember the Lord's Supper and to remember what Christ did, right? Yeah, are we even doing that? Yeah, like which is a good thing to implement, like hey, we should do this with our family as a tradition. But these holidays, man, the world has been so good at impressing on us necessity for things. Like oh, if you don't participate to this extent, oh, you're not a good person or you're not a good Christian or you're not, you know, you must not love, you know. But that's wrong. Like I hate commercials because they, something I didn't need, now all of a sudden I need it. Right, and they make you, that's what marketing is about. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing but how it influences us and how we drive, you know, making our house look a certain way and the presents and all the things that we don't just lay on ourselves but then the society and the world lays on us also to participate in. We actually can think differently about it. It doesn't have to be a huge thing to us, it doesn't have to be a big heavy. And I know people are gonna be like well, what's the big deal about Christmas, I like celebrating it. I'm not saying don't celebrate things. I'm saying understand where a lot of our drive and motivation comes from and oftentimes it's from internal insecurities or expectations and external forces pulling you along and saying this is what you must do and how you must think and what you must be. Again this goes back to my Scrooginess that people have called out. Like I just don't like feeling like one day a year is the day of gift-giving and that's how we celebrate. Right? My thought is like well, if you love people, aren't you gonna like give them gifts in all different forms throughout their whole life? And like your life is gonna want to serve them and love them and be generous to them? And what's funny is the Bible tells us to love our enemies and to pray for those that persecute us, so we have this idea of like giving to those who don't even deserve to be given to by us. And it's just, I'm kind of ranting now but having just the right expectations and this just goes into the next thing we're going to talk about is having a sober mind as a family about the holidays, which is everything I'm getting to right now. You know, the fact that we may be able to celebrate any day in relative health, with food, with our loved ones, is a humongous blessing. Yeah, and we should recognize that. We should be thanking God for that and honoring him and showing him our appreciation for even the simplest of things that he's already given to us. Yeah, I think about that scripture in Proverbs that says a house full of feasting and yet with strife is not as good as a house full of peace with a little food. Like you can have this huge feast and all the presents and everything beautiful. And all the family drama that goes with it. And all the drama and frustrations and anger and fights and bitterness and all the weird stuff that goes on, and that's not good. I don't want any of that. I'd rather have like a few morsels on the table and we're all loving each other and talking about the Lord and serving others and we're healthy, you know? And that, like praise the Lord. You know, so a sober mind. How often do you do you think that way? Cuz like this season just makes us think about a lot of other things. Yeah, I'll be honest, I get really distracted by what you mentioned earlier which is expectations and like how I view a certain day or week or entire season should go and the things that I want to do, the things I want to teach my kids, the experiences I want to have. You know, some of my expectations and I don't know if those listening will agree or can relate to, but some of my expectations come from wanting to recreate my own childhood or things that I thought were really fun and-- To give to our kids. To give to our kids and to share those memories with them or build new ones around those ideas or experiences, which isn't a bad thing at all but sometimes I'm so consumed with that that I do miss out on these other really important things like just being thankful for all the simple things that God's already given to us. Yeah. Well, and then like you mentioned something about recreating or creating new traditions and which traditions can be good in a home, as long as we're not like relying on traditions, but you know, I was thinking like sometimes we look at other people's lives and like look at the traditions they've got and like oh, that's so special. And doesn't mean we can't glean from other families and like oh, I'd love to implement something like that. But then we again, we put something on our shoulders, and be like oh, unless we do that, we're failing our children somehow or-- Or this isn't the holiday that I wanted. Yeah and I just, I don't think that's a very sober way of looking at any day of our life. You know, I'm worrying about tomorrow when today's got enough worries of its own, right? And I feel like the best family traditions, the healthiest traditions, especially ones that are wrapped in the gospel and in the Bible and knowing God, come naturally as we serve God and seek Him and as his desires come out of us because what happens is generosity, right? We start training that because that becomes, that's a part of what we are because God's generous, we love to be generous, so instead of about getting, it's about giving and that just becomes a tradition in our home naturally. What are some other ways that we can think soberly about this season? Well, we say it all the time but it's walking in the spirit and intentionally walking in the spirit during these times. That's really gonna keep the stress and chaos and conflict out of the home. Yeah. I would say, and the reason we bring up so much, I actually believe that the core of being a Christian outside of believing in God, in Christ, and him crucified, right, is walking in the spirit. Because when you walk in the spirit, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control. And against such things there is no law. It says like when you walk that way, you're walking in perfect harmony with God, right? And so no matter what's going on in the world, in our home for the holidays, if we're walking in the spirit, it's a good thing. Our kids are gonna glean from that, it's the best gift we can give to our children. It's the best gift we can give to our spouse. It's the best gift we can give to our neighbors. And the reason I always go back to this, it calls it fruit. The fruit isn't for the benefit of the tree, it's for the benefit of the eater, right? So if I'm the tree and I bear fruit, then everyone around me gets to eat the good fruit. You know, you get to enjoy my peace and my patience and my kindness and my goodness and my gentleness and my faithfulness and self-control. Those are all things that are good. Now they benefit me too of course but the purpose is everyone around me. So I feel like to think soberly like you said, walking in the spirit. Yeah. So going on to the next one would be no day's actually about us anyway. So I think sometimes when we set those expectations, it's all about us. When we try and plan and prepare and cram so much into the holiday season and we do everything we can, spin in circles to try and make it happen, we're doing it because we're trying to fulfill something, our own desire, and we have to remember that it's not about us. It's about the people that you're engaging with, it's about the kids that you want to experience these memories with, it's about the people at the store who are trying to check out all these other customers. And dealing with angry people and frustrations and-- If we're only focused on ourselves, we're gonna miss every opportunity that God has for us to do ministry, to love, and to reflect his light in their life. Yeah and again it's not even just about others, it's about Christ. Like what light are we being in the world during a season like this or are we just looking like everyone else? Are we also frustrated because that one thing I wanted or the line was so long or the traffic or whatever it is? Yeah, don't huff and puff your way through the holidays because-- Or being frustrated because you can't afford certain things or because, like there's that other spectrum of like maybe not be able to accomplish or do or participate in what you want. And still remembering it's not about any of that stuff. It's about Christ and are we being a light in this world? Yeah, this will also help in if you experience a family conflict like with aunts, uncles, grandma, grandpa, other siblings, other adults, like people who should be able to walk in maturity and just figure things out. We're not perfect and our flesh wants to fight sometimes, so if we were to just stop and realize that none of these days, this whole season, this whole life that we have is not about us, when we hit that wall or conflict with other people, other family members, if we walk in this and we remember that it's not about us, then we're usually more giving or serving to that other person and we can make things work, we can make it happen. And then you're being an example of God's love and light to them and hopefully they'll change too. Yeah, which is the point of this life as a believer. It's a point of a marriage after God is to be a light in the world. And so the last little point I want to, I threw this one on about having a sober mind is, and we talked about this in the finance episode we did, do not put stuff on credit. No. If you can't afford it, just don't get it. Change your expectations. Like no one's gonna hate you, right? Hopefully. But I promise you're not gonna regret not putting stuff on credit. Yeah or find another way to be, like if you really wanted to get someone a gift, be more thoughtful in like writing them a personal note, letter, or something on really nice paper. I mean, there's other ways around gift-giving without money. And letting them know that you love them. Yeah, so that was just a quick one. Don't put things on credit. Don't fall into that temptation. Just avoid it. Yeah, and if you are tempted, especially to fulfill like maybe your children and getting them a lot of gifts because when you were a child, you didn't get a lot of gifts, sometimes people wrestle with that. I would just think like your child's not gonna not like you or not love you because when they were younger, you didn't get them everything that they ever wanted. In fact, they'll probably, like we just shared about our favorite memories, they'll remember the time that you spent with them. Yeah. And they won't know what you don't get them, so that's a good thing. Let's go into the last part, this is the most important part. And it goes along with what we were talking about before the credit thing about remembering it's not about us. Yeah, that you have a ministry, your marriage has a ministry, the whole family has a ministry that God wants to do through you and I feel like during the holiday season there is so many opportunities to minister to other people and to just be that light in their lives. Yeah, God's antidote to our natural state of selfishness, because our natural fleshly state is to preserve ourself, and to serve ourself, and to feed ourself, and to bless ourself, and to love ourself, is to love and bless others. Is to turn things outward. And so use this season with your family as a marriage after God to bless and serve other people. That looks so many different ways. We have a few ideas. One of them we've done every year for the last 10 years, a long time. It's called Operation Christmas Child. And it's you get a shoebox and you fill it with some little goodies and what they do is they send them all over the world. And you can actually, if you do it right, they'll track it and say where your box went. And it goes to a child and every single child gets the gospel and they get prayed for and loved on by people that are giving these gifts. And not only are they getting a box of gifts that you gave them, they're getting the gospel. And this is a great one to do with your family or just your community, your church community, and just spend that time together talking about these kids that are gonna receive these gifts. Praying for them. Praying for them, teaching your children why it's good to be generous and I don't know, we've really, really loved doing this. Yeah and so that's a fun one. We're gonna do it this year with our church, we do it every year. And so that's one way. What's another way? So another one is be in prayer for your friends and family. So kind of like you said, praying for those kids that are gonna receive those boxes, make sure that you're praying for other people who are in your life and just love on them in that way. Yeah, practice with your kids. So we train with our children, we say hey Elliot, who do you wanna pray for? We'll give him ideas. You wanna pray for your friend? You wanna pray for your grandma? You want to pray for? And just be praying for those that don't know the Lord and pray for salvation for them, pray that God reveals himself to them and that Christians are brought around them to minister to them and love on them. Pray that you have an opportunity as a family to do that and have that be a core message, a core event, not just on the holiday but throughout the holidays, like every day. And then practice doing it all throughout the year. But use this as a season to specifically say hey, let's be praying for grandma and grandpa. They're coming out, they're gonna be around us, let's pray that we can be good examples and let's pray we can love on them and make them feel loved and blessed. So making prayer a main part of this season. That's good. So another one, we've talked a lot about food on this episode, but it's inviting people who you know don't have a lot of family around or maybe don't have any plans or maybe they're in need and inviting them over for a nice meal. To join your family, yeah. And make something for them and get them a gift and let them be a part and participate. Especially if you have friends that don't have family that are nearby, maybe they're gonna be alone. Don't let anyone be alone. Especially I was just thinking we have experienced this because we've traveled and we've been in places that-- When it was just us. We didn't have family around, when it was just us, and even now a lot of our family lives in California, we're in Oregon, and so we've done the Friendsgiving thing when our family didn't come in. I don't know, I just think it's such a loving way to share the gospel with someone. I mean, we've felt loved by it, we've experienced God's love and his truth come through this so. Yeah, so use hospitality as a gift you can give to others. Inviting them into your home, into your apartment, to be a part of what God's doing in your life. So the last thing is just, and we kind of had hit on this a lot. Well, and as you do these things that we're talking about as far as blessing people, you'll fulfill this role. Yeah, just use this holiday season as a very intentional time to teach your children and yourselves. To be honest, I need to be reminded of this stuff and taught it and practice it. To be generous and giving and to have hearts of service. So do your neighbors need anything? Is there any way you can bless them? Maybe you can bring them groceries. Maybe it's like baking them a pie and bringing them a card. So using this season to be very intentional about teaching our children, ourselves, about generosity, about service, and about being outward focused. And I think that's the best way to get our minds off of ourselves, to get our minds off of our own anxieties and stress and worries about this season and what it might mean, and make it about other people. You know? And doesn't mean we can't enjoy it and have our own things. I'm just saying the main focus and just how do we operate as a marriage after God. And I think those things are the best way to have a stress-free holiday season. Yeah, and it's what we all want, like we all desire to be able to enjoy this time of year and spend it with our families. And so I think that one of the reasons why we wanted to just talk about this today is to encourage you guys to check your hearts, talk about it, talk about your expectations, talk about the things that you hope to do or the family that's gonna be in town, and just pray. Pray, pray, pray, pray, pray with your spouse about all of it, pray with your kids for other people, find ways to be generous. I mean, all these things that we talked about, like Aaron said, it's to get our hearts right before God and right with each other and I think that if we do that, it does eliminate so much of that stress and chaos. It brings peace from God into our lives. And so as we come to a close, I just want to ask you to sit down with your spouse and as a couple ask God, God, what do you want for us this holiday? What do you want to use our family for as a marriage after God? And so we love you guys and we thank you for joining us and we'll see you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. Connect With UsInstagram | @marriageaftergodInstagram | @unveiledwifeInstagram | @husbandrevolutionCheck out our marriage resources!SponsorsGet our new book The Marriage Gift - 365 prayers for your marriage!

Thankfulness in marriage is necessary and unthankfulness is destructive. In the season of thanksgiving, the meaning of thankfulness can easily be lost. In this episode, we give some tips on how to have a biblical mind on thankfulness and how to walk in it every day. We all need to be reminded often to fill our hearts with thankfulness. -- Take our 31-day marriage prayer challenge today and join the 1000's of couples who have done it. https://shop.marriageaftergod.com/products/thirty-one-prayers-bundle -- FOR MORE MARRIAGE ENCOURAGEMENT https://marriageaftergod.com https://instagram.com/marriageaftergod SHOP MARRIAGE RESOURCES https://shop.marriageaftergod.com FOR WIVES https://unveiledwife.com https://facebook.com/unveiledwife FOR HUSBANDS https://husbandrevolution.com https://facebook.com/HusbandRevolution READ: Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. And today, we're gonna talk about how a heart of thankfulness is necessary for a marriage after God. So today, we're gonna talk about thankfulness in marriage, and we may even hit on why unthankfulness is, you know, damaging to marriage. But we're excited about this episode, especially 'cause Thanksgiving's right around the corner, and I think that, you know, thankfulness is usually on people's mind. If not, it's written somewhere on a napkin or some sort of decor for Thanksgiving, so. Yeah, but one of the reasons we wanna bring up this topic is especially with a corporate holiday, you know, federal holiday being Thanksgiving, sometimes it might lose its meaning. We might think, oh, of course, yeah, I should be thankful, I should be thankful, but we forget actually the spiritual impact that thankfulness has on our lives and actually the command that we have from the Lord to be thankful. Yeah. And so we just wanna talk about what thankfulness does in a marriage after God, and how it could benefit our ministry. And why it's important to do it all year 'round, right? Yeah, not just one day a year when the food's amazing. So that's what we wanna talk about today, is thankfulness, and we're gonna give some tips on the end, just how to have a mind and heart surrounded with thankfulness, and the Bible's really clear on how thankfulness should be a part of our lives. It shouldn't be just something that comes and goes, and it shouldn't just be based on the circumstances, which we'll see, but thankfulness should be an integral part of the Christian's life. It should be something deep inside of us. And so I think it'll be fun to discuss this. I have some questions for us to answer candidly about thankfulness in our own lives, because we're never unthankful. Never. Yeah, our marriage is only ever full of thankfulness. We're always walking in the spirit, so like. Yeah, perfectly. That flesh never gets to us. I mean, we're just. No, of course we're being facetious. We're a perfect couple, really. No, we have to be reminded often to be thankful, to have hearts filled with thankfulness, and the fruit that comes from that is good, and the fruit that comes from unthankfulness is not so good. Yeah. It's actually very destructive. Yeah. So, we're gonna dig in. We have some scripture to talk about, and some questions to answer, and then some tips at the end, and I think it's gonna be really good, so I hope you enjoy it. Okay, so we kind of broke this down into two sections, and so the first one is it's necessary for a strong marriage relationship. So thankfulness is necessary in order to have a strong marriage. And the first question that we wanted to kind of ask each other is, how do you think that thankfulness might play a huge role in strengthening our relationship? Yeah, I was thinking about this based off of the scripture that we're gonna talk about later, but thankfulness, I feel like it keeps us in a positive place, it keeps us moving forward. You know, I think about the times that we're not thankful. Mmhmm. And what our relationship is like. If you go back to like, in the beginning of our marriage, I don't know if I was necessary thankful for you, right? And so, I would neglect you. I would be frustrated with you. I would be bitter at our relationship and the things that weren't going my way, 'cause I had these expectations, and since those expectations weren't being fulfilled, I wasn't thankful. It was like I got a bad gift, and I was like, oh, thanks for this, God. I remember all the years at Christmas, and I would, you know, as a little child, be expecting one thing. Like that bike. You should tell that story. Yeah, I know. So, one Christmas, I just wanted a bike. The only thing I wanted was a bike. I dropped hints everywhere. Disclaimer, my parents are awesome, right? So, I wanted a bike. And I remember getting to my grandma's house. We were all there, everyone was there, and my grandma just starts dropping hints, 'cause she knows exactly what I'm getting. She's like, oh, I know what you're getting for Christmas. Oh, what is it? And she's like, here's your first hint. It's red. And I said, red? I'm thinking, I'm like, oh, a red bike, yeah. And then she got me with the second hint. She's like, the second hint is it starts with a B. Oh, no. And I'm like, what? I'm like, my parents actually got me the bike I wanted! And then I get the present, and it's like this big. It's like, it's a small box. Oh, no. And I'm like, how does a, maybe it's like a helmet. Maybe it's the helmet for the bike, and they're gonna trick me. Stay hopeful here. And I open it up, and it's a red pair of boots. Oh, red boots. Cowboy boots, yeah. That's awesome, though. Yeah, that's the kind of thankfulness I'm talking about, that we had in our marriage, like, yeah, thanks, God, but it was more like a, I wasn't actually thankful. Now, I did wear those boots all the time. But you didn't get the bike that you wanted. But I didn't get the bike I wanted, and I feel like that's what, you know, thankfulness is being thankful for what you have. So I could have been thankful for you, and I would have seen you with eyes of thankfulness. Mmhmm. Whether or not I think you were what I should have gotten, or the things that we were going through were something great or terrible, I could have been thankful, and that probably would have changed a lot of things in the way I responded to you, in the way I walked with you. I can see that. Instead of drifting away from you, because it was like, I'm gonna put you in the closet, like those boots. He didn't ever put me in the closet. I didn't put her in the closet. But that's the spiritual, you know. Isolation. Isolating myself. Being apart from one another, yeah. But like, how have you seen thankfulness play a huge role in strengthening our relationship? Well, on the positive side, 'cause I also, in the beginning of our marriage, I wouldn't say that I was thankful for the gift of marriage. I was a little bit jolted in like, not receiving the thing that I wanted. It wasn't how it was supposed to be. Yeah, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be. Yeah, and the first few years were really rough, but I could see how, when we started to walk out with hearts of thankfulness, how it really affirmed our marriage. And so I just kinda wanna highlight the positive here, that it changed us, and it gave us eyes to see where, even in the really, really small stuff, how we can be grateful for what we have and who we're with. I mean, I can look at our relationship now, and I'm so grateful for being with you. I can even be thankful for the things that we went through in the past, because I know that God used it for good, and I don't know, I just think that it's important to have a heart of thankfulness for each other, even in the hard times. And we're gonna talk a little bit about that later as well when we get to the tips, but you're really good at reminding me to be thankful. Now I am, I didn't used to be. In the hard times, yeah. And I was actually, while you were talking, I was thinking about all those times in Africa when we were missionaries, and we would go to a family's home, and when I say a home, it was like either a hut or just a smaller building, not what we would recognize here, and they would present us with the most, in our minds, wasn't something amazing, food, but in their minds, it was the best they had, and I just remember recognizing, 'cause a lot of the missionaries that we were with, they were like, no, you're gonna honor them. You're gonna eat what they give you, and that's hard for us. And you eat all of it, 'cause if you leave some, then you're not using the value of what they gave. Yeah, you're not appreciating that. You're not showing them that you're thankful. And I'm just thinking about the relationship between the gift-giver, the person giving me their food, in their world was the best that they had, and I'm thinking, like, oh, this is not as good as I, you know, my selfishness. Not being thankful is looking at the relationship in a way that like, oh, you didn't give me enough, you didn't give me what I want, and therefore, I'm not gonna be in that kind of connection with you and that kind of fellowship with you, right? Yeah. And I'm actually like, you know, harming the relationship with that person, because I'm not satisfied with what they've given me. Now, on the other hand, let's say I'm hungry, and I have no food, and I crawl into their home, and they feed me, right? Whatever they give me, I'm thankful. The Bible tells us that, you know, when you're hungry, even bitter things taste sweet, right? So the mentality, the heart is different toward that person. I'm like, man, thank you. You saved my life. You saved my life. It's the same food, different perspective. Yeah. So when you think about it from that perspective, you know, of a perspective shift, it really comes from a place of pride. You know, I'm unthankful because I deserve something, I'm owed something. What you have given me isn't worthy of me, right? It's a very selfish way to look at it. Super selfish. And so, on the other hand, if I'm thankful, my perspective is like, what I have is better than what I deserve, is more than what I'm owed, is beyond what I could have asked for. It's exactly where God wants us to be. It's pride versus humbleness, humility. So that's why I think it strengthens our relationship when we are thankful for each other, during the circumstances we're going through with each other, for the things that God's given our marriage. How can or has unthankfulness hurt our witness and ministry as a couple? Well, some of the stuff I was just talking about, of the pride. Mmhmm. I feel like, no, I don't feel like. I know people can recognize pride and arrogance and cockiness, and I feel like being unthankful, that shows out. I actually, I'm telling it myself again. I like that, I like that. I realized I had a situation with this that's caused me to kind of think about certain patterns I have and certain characteristics I have. A lot of our friends know that I love good food, and I barbecue my own meat, and I'm particular about how I make it, and whenever I go to restaurants, when we're with friends, I get something, and I find myself critiquing what I've been given. Yeah, yeah. You know? I'm at this really nice restaurant, and I'm like, oh, you know, I would have done it this way, or oh, they didn't do it the way. It's supposed to be done. It's supposed to be done. And so I have this particular way, and it's just me kind of, the way I've justified it is just me walking in my passions with food, right? And a friend of mine said something to me, and I'm like, oh, that was interesting. And I don't think they were trying to be rude to me or mean, but they said, you know, Aaron, you should be a restaurant critic, right? And I think they were sincere, but when I was on the way home, I remembered talking to you. I was like, I think I'm a jerk. You know, I'm sitting at this nice restaurant, I'm enjoying my friends, and there was literally nothing there to complain about, not a single thing, and my critiquing, you know, I'm using my air quotes, is just my unthankfulness. It's me being prideful about my knowledge of things, or something not being good enough. Right. For me. Well, also, I would say for you, it was the value of, I'm paying for this. Like, let's say it was a steak, and I could have done it better for cheaper at home. Right, which is thoughts I have, you know? And who knows if that waiter's listening to me going back and talking to the chef, and like, I'm just one of those guys that complains about a really nice plate of food. You know? It was funny, it's all this unthankfulness is around food. It's not always food. It's not always food. These are just good examples, I think. But like, you know, our life is supposed to be a light in this world, and like, what if I'm sitting there, it could be embarrassing for you, too. I don't know if you've ever been embarrassed. No. I think you have stories in your own life of people acting like this on a bigger scale. Yeah, I was thinking though, like, I think we've shared this in another episode, but when it comes to our kids, especially around food, are we showing them an example of thankfulness when it comes to our food, or are they also going to be critiquing their food? I think you talked about them critiquing my food at home. Which is so dangerous. I'm like, that's your mom. Don't critique your mom's food. You enjoy it. Yeah. But you're right, that's another witness to our children. We're using food as an example a lot, but it goes for everything. Like, if we're not thankful for our car, our home, you know, and that comes out in the way we take care of those things and treat those things and talk about those things. I have an example of you know, just how our ministry as a couple can negatively impact or have that negative impact on our ministry to others, and it's more relational, but if you are doing something that I think you should have done different, or if I think you weren't doing right, and we're in front of a group of people or whatever. For you, or just in general? Just in general, or for me, it doesn't matter, and I don't respond with a heart of thankfulness, because I don't actually see your action as being good. I see it as all the wrong ways that you're doing it, right? Right. Because I don't have that heart of thankfulness, it comes out in my response to you, and then all of the sudden, I feel that. Other people are watching you. Yeah, other people are watching me, and I start to feel embarrassed of my own actions and responses towards you, and I feel like our marriage is weakened and kind of broken. Right, the witness that our marriage has, our unity's gone, 'cause it's like, oh, why'd you do it that way? Can you just go redo it? Yeah. I don't know if I'm making up that example, but, I think that's a good point, how we treat each other, especially back when we weren't thankful for each other. And even now, we still, you know, we go through days of just like, today's hard, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened. Yeah, feeling overwhelmed by it. Right? And we're like, well, and we really forget all the good. But I guess the, you know, going into the verse we're about to talk about, sometimes we can think, well, right now there isn't good, so why should I be thankful? But that's actually not what the Bible teaches us. God actually has a way for us to be in the good times and in the bad, and so, I'm gonna read Ephesians five. This right here gives us the picture of how God wants us to be thankful and why, and in the book of Ephesians, Ephesians is the relationship book. It's about our relationship with the church, our relationship as a church, our relationship with God, and then our relationship with each other, and it's all relationships and how we relate to each other as Christians, as the new creature that God's made us. In Ephesians five, in verse 15, it says this, and this is talking, again, about the relationship between individuals in the church, as a global idea. It says, look carefully, then, how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore, do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for this is debauchery, but be filled with the spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, giving thanks always and, right here is the keyword, for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. Again, the context of this is how us as individuals in the body of Christ, in the church, the global church, are to act with each other, to relate to each other. You know, we submit to one another out of reverence. We greet each other with songs and hymns out of our hearts filled with thankfulness, and so what that means is when our hearts are filled with thankfulness, the sound that comes out of us, the tone that comes out of us, is melody to God. It's melodic, it's harmonious, it's beautiful, it's up-building, it lifts your spirits. That's what that heart of thankfulness does. But the keyword, again, is for everything. Giving thanks always, and for everything, which is kind of hard to understand. Like, wait, we're supposed to thank God for the hard things? Are we supposed to thank God for the difficulties we had in our marriage, in the beginning of our marriage? Yeah, and I would say in the midst of it, it was really hard to. I don't think we were thankful. I don't think we were thankful. I was not. I remember my prayers consisted of, why are you doing this to me, God? But looking back in hindsight, we have thanked him for that. Oh, yeah. So if we can encourage those listening, if you are in the middle of a hard spot, try practicing finding things that you can be thankful of, not finding things. I guess it's be thankful for them. Be thankful for them. Say Lord, this is hard; thank you. And here's the thing. We can always find something to be thankful for. I guess so, yeah. But God wants us to be thankful for everything. Yeah. For the hard things, for the easy things, for the painful things, for the joyful things, because God wants our Thanksgiving. Yeah. And you know what? Paul says this. He says, our current sufferings are not to be compared with the coming glory. So, even the hardest things we can go through, and if you think about Christians that are being persecuted all over the world, they should thank God for that, first of all, because they're gonna get an extra blessing. That's what the Bible says. But that's so short of a time. It's gonna be done with, and they're gonna be in glory with God. Mmhmm. That's what our lives are. So all of our little things, the little, painful things, the hard things we go through, the big things that we go through. God doesn't just want us to thank him for the good things. He wants us to thank him for everything, which is awesome. I think I was just talking to you this morning encouraging you, just saying, you know, do you have breath in your lungs today? Did you have food to eat? Do you have energy in your body? I mean, you went pretty far. You were like, do your legs work? Do your hands work? And I was just letting her know, letting you know, that we have so much stuff to thank God for, just in the fact that we're, the people listening right now are sitting there, breathing, listening. They have life in them, and God says, I want you to use your life for me, and I want you to be thankful for that life and all the things that happen within that life. I think a big part of being able to thank God for everything, for all of it, good and bad, it shows your amount of trust in him. Yeah. Because when you can say, God, thank you for this, even though it's really hard, you're trusting that he's either gonna walk you through it, you're trusting that his timing is best and that that hard time will end when he sees fit, or you're gonna trust that he's gonna use that hard stuff for something good later, right? Well, yeah. I feel like trust is such a big part of it. Being unthankful for it, like, God, why are you doing this to me, which is my heart, is presumptuous, to think, like, I know better. Right. God, you're doing it wrong. This thing I'm going through, I don't deserve it, it's not right, you're unjust. That's what I'm saying if I'm unthankful to God. And when we put it in that context, 'cause while you were talking, I was thinking. I was like, yeah, actually, unthankfulness is telling God we know better. Yeah. And the story I think of is Job. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Which is one of the oldest manuscripts known in the Bible. It's the oldest one. It's not chronologically the oldest, but it is the oldest written manuscript. And it's a story of a man who goes through the most incredible suffering, and it almost looks like he doesn't even deserve any of it, right? And he's telling the Lord, like, I'm righteous, I'm just. God, I don't deserve any of this. And by the very end, what does God tell him? Where were you when I set the foundations of the earth and I told the water where to stop? Where were you when I created everything, right? And he's essentially telling Job, he's like, he's like, Job, you don't get to question me. And you know what, it doesn't tell us why, but God blessed him in the end. Doesn't mean he deserved it. Just God chose to bless him. That's what God can do, 'cause he's God, right? Yeah. So, that's actually a pretty scary thing to think about, that when we're unthankful for even the little hard things, the big hard things, we're telling God we know better, and that's, again, a prideful heart against God, but I'd rather be, no matter how hard it is, in a spot of being held by God, like God, I trust you, like you said. That was a good word. Yeah, that's good. I wanna also read I Thessalonians 5:16-18, 'cause I think it kind of affirms everything that you're saying right now. Yeah, this is like the other half of how we're supposed to be thankful. Yeah, so, it says, rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. And I think so many people are out there and they think to themselves, I just wanna know God's will for me. I just wanna know what he wants for me. It's right here, boom. It's right here. This is God's will for you. He wants you to rejoice always, and that reminds me of the verse that you were just reading about of, you know, having psalms and hymns. You told me one time, I think it was you, about how you know that someone's joyful when they're singing? I said that at church on Sunday. Oh, yeah. So you know that someone's joyful when they're walking around the house humming or singing, and their spirit's just light, and you feel their tone. You can hear it. Yeah. So I think being able to rejoice always is a testimony of God's power in your life. Whether the circumstances around you are good or bad, if you're able to rejoice, you're saying, hey, none of this stuff matters, because I know who loves me, and you know, part of our ministry as A Marriage after God, our ministry as Christians in this world, is to be a light to others, and how are we supposed to reflect him and bear his image? It's to be able to rejoice in all things. Which is a perfect transition into the second part of why it's necessary to have a heart of thankfulness, is because it's for a marriage to glorify and magnify God. Thankfulness, in our hearts, does that very thing, and we have some scriptures to back that up, if we haven't already proven it, just by some of the scriptures we've already read. But like you said, the magnification, the glory, there's nothing more powerful than meeting someone who's going through extreme suffering, and they have thankfulness in their heart, and they have joy, and it doesn't mean they're not in pain, doesn't mean they're masking it or hiding it. They just truly know who their Savior is, who their Father is, and who's gonna raise them up on the last day. They know who's gonna hold them when they get to heaven. They know where their life is held, and there's something powerful. You say, wow, how could you go through so much and still thank God, and still have joy in your heart? And I think that, I don't think that does magnify God. It shows how good God is, and that's where, if we're a marriage that's just bitter and angry. Or operating out of pride all the time. Yeah, we're contentious, and like, any time, man, I don't know if you've ever known someone that just, almost everything that comes out of their mouth is negative. Yeah, it'd be great if the car didn't always, you know, have that little tick in the engine. Oh, yeah, what a great day. Too bad it's gonna rain. Like, just everything they say is like, what's the word, Debbie Downer? Yeah, yeah. I feel bad for the person that they named that after, but. But that's not a good witness. What does that magnify? Like, that doesn't magnify God. You know, it magnifies your own self-loathing, your own view of the world, being so dreary and down. And again, would you think it could be easy to fake this? Like, 'cause that's not magnifying God, when we're faking that we're joyful, and we've got a mask on, but yet, we're hurting and broke and angry inside. No, 'cause it goes back to you always say, like, how you're living your life, can you tell someone else to live that way? You're always encouraging other men and even me to be aware. Be an example. Of how you are walking, and yeah, I don't think that you can say, follow my example or do what I'm doing if what I'm doing is smiling on the outside in the world and then running home to cry about it. You're not gonna have the authority in your life to say. It's hypocritical. This actually works, or God is actually with me, yeah. Yeah, and I think you're right. I think the example we need to set is that we're at home and outside the home the same. You know, in private and in public, we're the same. That's called integrity. It's the opposite of hypocrisy, where I'm one way in front of someone and another way in front of another person. And I think people can sniff it out. I think people know, even if they don't. If you're around someone long enough. Well, if they're not identifying it verbally, they feel it. Like, you can feel when someone has an ungrateful heart. Yeah, and it's not a pretty thing. I've had it. There's times that I get tempted to walk in ungratefulness, and then I have to remind myself, you know what, things are good, God's good. He's given me way more than I ever deserve, and that'll help when we get some of these tips at the end of how we can have hearts of thankfulness. But yeah, the second part of just magnifying God, the reason we have hearts of thankfulness is to magnify and glorify God. I wanna read a verse. It's Psalm 69:30, and it says, I will praise the name of God with a song; I will magnify him with thanksgiving. And so I just wanna highlight two things here. One, I will magnify him with thanksgiving, that's an action. Like, going to God and saying, thank you for, thank you for being you, thank you for creating me, just thanking him, thank you for my spouse, thank you for my marriage and my family, and then the other one is, I will praise the name of God with a song. That's also an action, and I think it's really important for us to be aware and to know the types of music that, you know, we're putting on or listening to. Filling ourselves with. Filling ourselves with, and, you know, I'm not saying you can't listen to other things, but make sure that you are spending time praising God with a song, whether that's putting it on the radio or singing it out of a book or, you know, singing songs with your kids. I'll admit this. I make up songs. I just randomly sing them, whether I'm in the shower or walking around the house. I do, too. Are we a make up song family? I guess so. They don't always make sense, but I'll just like, instead of praying out loud, I'll sing it, or I don't know. I think that's kind of weird, but. I made up one last night with our friends. It was like, thank you God for friends and food and food and friends. I don't know. It was kind of silly. I do it silly, but I like it. I think it's fun, and I feel like I'm fulfilling this, when it says I will praise the name of God with a song. Yeah, and so going back to the magnify with him, magnify him with thanksgiving, I'm thinking about the first questions we were asking ourselves about the witness we have. There's another scripture that tells us to be ready to give an answer when someone asks us about the hope we have. And the first thing I thought of when I heard this was, oh, one of the best answers you can give is thanking God. Like, why do you have so much hope? How do you trust God so much? 'Cause I thank him. He's a good God. He gave me salvation in his Son Jesus. He's freed me from sin and death. He's empowered me to walk in purity. Like, all of the things that God has done for us, we can thank him for, and recognizing his goodness. So, magnifying him, so when someone asks, you be like, you know what? Thank God. So on the flip side to this, a person that's unthankful won't even ever get that question. That's a good point, 'cause you're not gonna go up to someone and be like, hey, you just seem so down. What's your trick? How can I get some of that? How can I get some of that? Every time we're somewhere, you're just complaining about everything. I want some of that. They won't be asked. That's a good point. Yeah, will never get asked, actually. People get avoided that are like that. Yeah. That are always down. So don't be them. Like, I saw this meme. I follow these nutritionists and strength training experts on Instagram, and there was this post he did. He said 10 things to stop doing right now, and the number one thing was stop hanging around negative people. So, like everyone, all of these positivity teachers and all these people that help people better their lives, they all say like, don't hang with negative people. So they actually got that from the Bible. It says bad company corrupts good morals. You know, we shouldn't be hanging out with negative people. 'Cause then we'll tend to have those tendencies. Yeah, and if you know someone that's negative, you should go out of your way to always be encouraging, and be like, you know what, I think that was a negative thought that you just, I don't think you're thinking right. God's good. Yeah. Look at how he's blessed you, and remind that person, 'cause what will happen is either they'll change or they'll stop hanging out with me, 'cause you're always encouraging them to see the brighter side of things. So what happens if that's your spouse? What if you guys are opposite there? Oh, well don't stop hanging out with your spouse. Do the other one. Pray for them. Pray for them, and constantly encourage them. Okay, I just wanted to. Yeah, constantly encourage them. But like, you know what, God's still good. I'm sorry you're going through that, but God's good. He's got us. Yeah, don't not hang out with your spouse. Thank you for highlighting that point. Okay, so I think you were gonna read Psalms 50:23. Yes, Psalms 50:23 says this: The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; to one who orders his way rightly, I will show the salvation of God, ooh. So it's interesting that it ties thanksgiving as a sacrifice, like it's something that you're giving to God, and you know what's funny, is, it's not funny, it just lines up with scripture. In the Passover meal, one of the cups that they drink filled with wine is the cup of thanksgiving, right? And so, and that was actually one of the Old Testament sacrifices, was a thanks offering, right? And we hear that at church sometimes, let's give a thanks offering, you know, but what it's saying is it's a sacrifice of thanks, and I feel like that ties so much when we think about being thankful for all things, almost like when we're thankful for the hard things, the suffering, we're actually saying, I'm gonna give this as a sacrifice to you, Lord. I'm gonna thank you anyway. That's really beautiful. You know, I'm gonna offer up my thanksgiving, even amidst the suffering. Thank you, Lord. And there's something immensely powerful in thanking God. It changes us. It transforms us. It gives us his perspective on life, and it tells him, God, we are lowly, and you are high. I also feel like it removes the power of the circumstances, 'cause I feel like so often, we can give power to our circumstances, and I don't know about anyone else listening, but for me, being a mom who works, but is also at home a lot and can get overwhelmed by just house management stuff, I feel like I can easily let my circumstances have power in my life to overwhelm me. And be controlled by them versus controlling yourself in them. Exactly. Yeah, that's a good point, because the thanksgiving stops the downward spiral. Yeah. Like, oh, you know, Lord? I'm just gonna stop right now and thank you. And well, it helps you, or it helps me, recognize who's got the power. Yeah, it's not us. It's God. It's God, and he's got the power to change our circumstances, and you know what, even when he allows us to go through hard things, he's still a good God. And we're gonna trust him. And we're gonna trust him. I loved what you said about that. Thanksgiving is trusting him. And so, where's your trust? Is it in yourself? Do you believe that you know better than God, or is he the one that knows better, and you trust him in it? Man, that's powerful. So I feel like we actually hit some of these tips already. That's okay. I think that we should go over them. But we'll give them the tips now. Okay, so we have five tips to give you guys, and these are just practical ways of kind of living out your day to day with a heart of thankfulness, and then one little bonus, so. Yeah. What's the first one? So the first one is say it out loud. Say it out loud that you're thankful. So when I bring you a towel, you tell me thank you, or. Yeah, it could be in the very simple things, especially in your marriage. Make sure your spouse knows that you're thankful for them. You're thankful for the ways that they do things, even if they're different than the way that you think they should be done. That was a tongue twister, but yes. I know. I get what you're saying. Being thankful when. I'm talking to myself. I'm preaching to the choir. Yeah, just saying thank you, and not just making it a passive like, oh, thank you, but like, wow, I really appreciate what you did. I really appreciate the way you did that like we do with our kids at the dinner table. I've been practicing, every single time I sit down, have you guys thanked mom for this meal? Oh, yeah, thanks, mom. Have you thanked dad for this meal? And they're like, thank you, thank you. Like, we're just trying to show 'em, when you're thankful, it shows that you appreciate what you have. Yeah, or how about when the waitress sets down the food at the table. Thank you, or when we're. No, they don't need to be thanked, right? 'Cause that's their job? I guess you could walk back to the kitchen. No, that again goes back to our witness. I was like, I guess you can go thank the chef, but. No, absolutely. They're doing a job, and that's, again, a part of our witness, is going out of our way. Speaking of waitresses, one thing I've been practicing is learning their name, and that also lets them know that they're appreciated and that they're thought of and that they're a person. Yeah. And they're doing a job, and we can thank them for the job they're doing. I was also gonna say like, when you're at fellowship or around friends and someone serves you or gives you something, make sure that they know that you're thankful. But don't just say it out of lip service. When we say say it out loud, it's an overflow of your heart, and you're verbalizing what is actually in your heart. And if you're someone who's not thankful for even the little things, maybe you can start practicing this, just saying it out loud. So actually, when I looked down at the tip, I thought it said we sing it out loud. Oh, you can sing it out loud. And I feel like that's a good little bonus, is that you were talking about music, is having hymns and songs and praises, you know, playing in the house, or just singing our thankfulness. Thank you. That's a good one. The kids like to sing, you know? So it's a good way to help them practice praising God. Okay. And thanking him. Okay, so number two is we remind each other to be thankful, and this goes back to when I said you're really good at this. Reminding your spouse, no matter what's going on, no matter how easy or hard your circumstances are, you're reminding each other, hey, let's be thankful today. Hey, you can do this. Let's be thankful for what we've got going on. Let's remember who our Lord is. Yep, so when I thought about this tip, most of the Old Testament is a story of remembering and forgetting. If you just read the whole Old Testament in context, it's remembering and forgetting. Remembering what God did, forgetting what God did. This is how the people of Israel's relationship with God went throughout the generations before Jesus came. And you know, we fall into those patterns sometimes, and God, right after he saved the Israelites in a powerful way, you know, the 10 plagues, going through the Red Sea, and they're into the wilderness, and they're going, and they just immediately start complaining. Lord, it was better off back then. Did you lead us out here to die? No, of course he didn't. He just saved them in a miraculous way. He can't take care of them? He did this amazing thing, and they just forgot. And so God, he warns 'em. He says, don't forget where you've come from. Yeah, that's good. And, you know, we forget. We can sit here in our home, in our nice home, and forget that we have a home, and think, oh, it's just so messy, and how, you know, I can't believe I didn't do this, or I forgot to go set up the thing, and all the things, we allow that to, woe is me, right? Yeah. And we both get into this on the various aspects of how we manage our home or our vehicles or our bank accounts or whatever it is, and we forget that God gave it all to us. Yeah. That God's the one that's put it in our trust, and that God's the one that can take it away, as Job tells us, you know? He says God giveth and God taketh away, and we forget that actually, God has that authority in our life. So, practicing what God told the Israelites to practice and what he gave them tons of things to do, all the ceremonies, all of the festivals, all the new moon feasts. All of those things were to remember what God did. It's why we take communion. Jesus said do this in remembrance of me and what I did on the cross, 'cause how often do we forget about our salvation? You know, if everything was taken away, babe, would you still have something to be thankful for? Absolutely. What? Salvation. Yeah, that we get to be with our Father in heaven forever. Yeah. So, that's that tip of just practicing remembrance. And so, when your spouse is going through a season or a time of like, they're down, they're unthankful, they're struggling with things in their life, the other spouse can gentle remind them, be like, hey, just remember. Remember what God's done for us. Remember, we don't deserve any of this. Yeah, and you don't have to be going through a hard time to remember. I think, I would suggest on your next date night, you know, have a conversation about where God has taken your relationship from and where he's brought you to. It's a thankfulness date. Yeah, yeah, have a thankfulness date. That sounds awesome. And then start off with thanking God that you're on the date. That means you probably got a babysitter. Yeah, that's great. So, yeah, I think it's important just to remind each other. So this is number three, and it says thank God through prayer. So when you're praying, you guys should be praying with your spouse and be praying at all times throughout the day. Remember, pray without ceasing. But be thankful in your prayers, so telling God why you're thankful and lifting those things up. Yeah, this is actually, so, for all the people that wonder how to pray without ceasing, 'cause people always bring that up, like, let's be in prayer without ceasing. You know, Matt, actually, our pastor, brought this up on Sunday. It means to be in constant communion with the Lord, and one way you can do that is thank God throughout the day for everything. Ah, thank you Lord for this car. Thank you, Lord, for this food that I'm having at lunch. Thank you for my partner that I'm working with that's helping me out. Thank you, Lord, for that friend that just gave me a smile as they walk by. Thank you, like, and just thanking God. That's a perfect way to commune with God throughout the day. Yeah, I think that this is how we taught our kids how to pray, too. Like, one of the biggest ways that we taught our kids how to pray is. Thanking God. Asking them, well, what are you thankful for? Oh, let's tell God that, you know? That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, so, in prayer, thanking God through our prayer life, just thanking him directly. Thank you, Lord. So what's number four? So number four is make it a conversation in your home. Make it a conversation with your spouse. Make it a conversation with your kids, and we do something. We go around the table at dinner time, and we say, okay, what are you guys' highlights? So think about your whole day and what stood out to you, and we'd like to talk about it. Yeah, what was something that you really enjoyed, and usually it's a kind of thanksgiving. It's like, oh, I really enjoyed that one thing, or that awesome thing. Sometimes our kids say everything, the whole day. Or they mention something from three months ago. I feel like they're just trying to get out of having to think of something, but that's kind of cool, that they say the whole day. But I think that it is important to make it a conversation where you constantly talking about things that you're thankful for, because it goes back to that remembrance of like, we have to remind our flesh to be thankful, and so we're constantly talking about it. So, number five is practice putting scriptures about thankfulness on the walls. Oh, that's great. Like we have our chalkboard. You know, do a study on thankfulness. As a family, as a husband, as a wife, open up and find all the words and the stories about being thankful and what the Bible says, and meditate on those. Remember them. Put them on Post-It notes all over your home. Put them on your chalkboards if you have those, and just let the word of God translate and change our minds and the way we think, you know, about complaining versus thankfulness, which leads us into our bonus one. The bonus one, which is. Kinda the opposite. It's kinda like, yeah, here's the opposite. It's don't complain. So if you guys wanna tackle, you know, ungratefulness and unthankfulness in your heart, you gotta stop complaining. Yeah, so, as a family, when you hear complaining, maybe make a rule, like no complaining. We're not allowed to complain about something. Hey, that sounded like a complaint. Be careful how you bring it up, but. Like with the kids sometimes I'll say we're the Smiths, and we do hard things, or we're the Smiths and we don't complain. We're the Smiths. We're not bored. We're not bored. We can go find something to do. Yeah, so making a habit of not complaining, because complaint is, again, it's saying that we're not getting something we're owed, we're not getting something we deserve. And then you're just training your flesh to be okay with that. Yeah, and 'cause that's what the flesh wants. The fleshly response is to complain, like the Israelites did. The spiritual response is to be thankful. And so, that is our little discussion on thankfulness and how it can invigorate our marriages, how it can empower our marriages, and how it can be used by God as a ministry in the world when people see our thankful hearts. And so we just hope that you guys would discuss this as a family and as a marriage and walk in thankfulness. Let's stop complaining. Let's be men and women of God who thank God for everything and in everything. We love you guys. We thank you for joining us this week, and we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? 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