Future of Life Institute Podcast

Susan Solomon, internationally recognized atmospheric chemist, and Stephen Andersen, leader of the Montreal Protocol, join us to tell the story of the ozone hole and their roles in helping to bring us back from the brink of disaster.  Topics discussed in this episode include: -The industrial and commercial uses of chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) -How we discovered the atmospheric effects of CFCs -The Montreal Protocol and its significance -Dr. Solomon's, Dr. Farman's, and Dr. Andersen's crucial roles in helping to solve the ozone hole crisis -Lessons we can take away for climate change and other global catastrophic risks You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/09/16/susan-solomon-and-stephen-andersen-on-saving-the-ozone-layer/ Check out the video version of the episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hwh-uDo-6A&ab_channel=FutureofLifeInstitute Check out the story of the ozone hole crisis here: https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/0_0_0/ozone_depletion_01 Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 3:13 What are CFCs and what was their role in society? 7:09 James Lovelock discovering an abundance of CFCs in the lower atmosphere 12:43 F. Sherwood Rowland's and Mario Molina's research on the atmospheric science of CFCs 19:52 How a single chlorine atom from a CFC molecule can destroy a large amount of ozone 23:12 Moving from models of ozone depletion to empirical evidence of the ozone depleting mechanism 24:41 Joseph Farman and discovering the ozone hole 30:36 Susan Solomon's discovery of the surfaces of high altitude Arctic clouds being crucial for ozone depletion 47:22 The Montreal Protocol 1:00:00 Who were the key stake holders in the Montreal Protocol? 1:03:46 Stephen Andersen's efforts to phase out CFCs as the co-chair of the Montreal Protocol Technology and Economic Assessment Panel 1:13:28 The Montreal Protocol helping to prevent 11 billion metric tons of CO2 emissions per year 1:18:30 Susan and Stephen's key takeaways from their experience with the ozone hole crisis 1:24:24 What world did we avoid through our efforts to save the ozone layer? 1:28:37 The lessons Stephen and Susan take away from their experience working to phase out CFCs from industry 1:34:30 Is action on climate change practical? 1:40:34 Does the Paris Agreement have something like the Montreal Protocol Technology and Economic Assessment Panel? 1:43:23 Final words from Susan and Stephen This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

James Manyika, Chairman and Director of the McKinsey Global Institute, joins us to discuss the rapidly evolving landscape of the modern global economy and the role of technology in it.  Topics discussed in this episode include: -The modern social contract -Reskilling, wage stagnation, and inequality -Technology induced unemployment -The structure of the global economy -The geographic concentration of economic growth You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/09/06/james-manyika-on-global-economic-and-technological-trends/ Check out the video version of the episode here: https://youtu.be/zLXmFiwT0-M Check out the McKinsey Global Institute here: https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/overview Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 2:14 What are the most important problems in the world today? 4:30 The issue of inequality 8:17 How the structure of the global economy is changing 10:21 How does the role of incentives fit into global issues? 13:00 How the social contract has evolved in the 21st century 18:20 A billion people lifted out of poverty 19:04 What drives economic growth? 29:28 How does AI automation affect the virtuous and vicious versions of productivity growth? 38:06 Automation and reflecting on jobs lost, jobs gained, and jobs changed 43:15 AGI and automation 48:00 How do we address the issue of technology induced unemployment 58:05 Developing countries and economies 1:01:29  The central forces in the global economy 1:07:36 The global economic center of gravity 1:09:42 Understanding the core impacts of AI 1:12:32 How do global catastrophic and existential risks fit into the modern global economy? 1:17:52 The economics of climate change and AI risk 1:20:50 Will we use AI technology like we've used fossil fuel technology? 1:24:34 The risks of AI contributing to inequality and bias 1:31:45 How do we integrate developing countries voices in the development and deployment of AI systems 1:33:42 James' core takeaway 1:37:19 Where to follow and learn more about James' work This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Michael Klare, Five College Professor of Peace & World Security Studies, joins us to discuss the Pentagon's view of climate change, why it's distinctive, and how this all ultimately relates to the risks of great powers conflict and state collapse. Topics discussed in this episode include: -How the US military views and takes action on climate change -Examples of existing climate related difficulties and what they tell us about the future -Threat multiplication from climate change -The risks of climate change catalyzed nuclear war and major conflict -The melting of the Arctic and the geopolitical situation which arises from that -Messaging on climate change You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/07/30/michael-klare-on-the-pentagons-view-of-climate-change-and-the-risks-of-state-collapse/ Check out the video version of the episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn57jxEoW24 Check out Michael's website here: http://michaelklare.com/ Apply for the Podcast Producer position here: futureoflife.org/job-postings/ Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 2:28 How does the Pentagon view climate change and why are they interested in it? 5:30 What are the Pentagon's main priorities besides climate change? 8:31 What are the objectives of career officers at the Pentagon and how do they see climate change? 10:32 The relationship between Pentagon career officers and the Trump administration on climate change 15:47 How is the Pentagon's view of climate change unique and important? 19:54 How climate change exacerbates existing difficulties and the issue of threat multiplication 24:25 How will climate change increase the tensions between the nuclear weapons states of India, Pakistan, and China? 26:32 What happened to Tacloban City and how is it relevant? 32:27 Why does the US military provide global humanitarian assistance? 34:39 How has climate change impacted the conditions in Nigeria and how does this inform the Pentagon's perspective? 39:40 What is the ladder of escalation for climate change related issues? 46:54 What is "all hell breaking loose?" 48:26 What is the geopolitical situation arising from the melting of the Arctic? 52:48 Why does the Bering Strait matter for the Arctic? 54:23 The Arctic as a main source of conflict for the great powers in the coming years 58:01 Are there ongoing proposals for resolving territorial disputes in the Arctic? 1:01:40 Nuclear weapons risk and climate change 1:03:32 How does the Pentagon intend to address climate change? 1:06:20 Hardening US military bases and going green 1:11:50 How climate change will affect critical infrastructure 1:15:47 How do lethal autonomous weapons fit into the risks of escalation in a world stressed by climate change? 1:19:42 How does this all affect existential risk? 1:24:39 Are there timelines for when climate change induced stresses will occur? 1:27:03 Does tying existential risks to national security issues benefit awareness around existential risk? 1:30:18 Does relating climate change to migration issues help with climate messaging? 1:31:08 A summary of the Pentagon's interest, view, and action on climate change 1:33:00 Final words from Michael 1:34:33 Where to find more of Michael's work This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Avi Loeb, Professor of Science at Harvard University, joins us to discuss unidentified aerial phenomena and a recent US Government report assessing their existence and threat.  Topics discussed in this episode include: -Evidence counting for the natural, human, and extraterrestrial origins of UAPs -The culture of science and how it deals with UAP reports -How humanity should respond if we discover UAPs are alien in origin -A project for collecting high quality data on UAPs You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/07/09/avi-loeb-on-ufos-and-if-theyre-alien-in-origin/ Apply for the Podcast Producer position here: futureoflife.org/job-postings/ Check out the video version of the episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyNlLaFTeFI&ab_channel=FutureofLifeInstitute Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 1:41 Why is the US Government report on UAPs significant? 7:08 Multiple different sensors detecting the same phenomena 11:50 Are UAPs a US technology? 13:20 Incentives to deploy powerful technology 15:48 What are the flight and capability characteristics of UAPs? 17:53 The similarities between 'Oumuamua and UAP reports 20:11  Are UAPs some form of spoofing technology? 22:48 What is the most convincing natural or conventional explanation of UAPs? 25:09 UAPs as potentially containing artificial intelligence 28:15 Can you give a credence to UAPs being alien in origin? 29:32 Why aren't UAPs far more technologically advanced? 32:15 How should humanity respond if UAPs are found to be alien in origin? 35:15 A plan to get better data on UAPs 38:56 Final thoughts from Avi 39:40 Getting in contact with Avi to support his project This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Avi Loeb, Professor of Science at Harvard University, joins us to discuss a recent interstellar visitor, if we've already encountered alien technology, and whether we're ultimately alone in the cosmos.  Topics discussed in this episode include: -Whether 'Oumuamua is alien or natural in origin -The culture of science and how it affects fruitful inquiry -Looking for signs of alien life throughout the solar system and beyond -Alien artefacts and galactic treaties -How humanity should handle a potential first contact with extraterrestrials -The relationship between what is true and what is good You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/07/09/avi-loeb-on-oumuamua-aliens-space-archeology-great-filters-and-superstructures/ Apply for the Podcast Producer position here: https://futureoflife.org/job-postings/ Check out the video version of the episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcxJ8QZQkwE&ab_channel=FutureofLifeInstitute See our second interview with Avi here: https://soundcloud.com/futureoflife/avi-loeb-on-ufos-and-if-theyre-alien-in-origin Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 3:28 What is 'Oumuamua's wager? 11:29 The properties of 'Oumuamua and how they lend credence to the theory of it being artificial in origin 17:23 Theories of 'Oumuamua being natural in origin 21:42 Why was the smooth acceleration of 'Oumuamua significant? 23:35 What are comets and asteroids? 28:30 What we know about Oort clouds and how 'Oumuamua relates to what we expect of Oort clouds 33:40 Could there be exotic objects in Oort clouds that would account for 'Oumuamua 38:08 What is your credence that 'Oumuamua is alien in origin? 44:50 Bayesian reasoning and 'Oumuamua 46:34 How do UFO reports and sightings affect your perspective of 'Oumuamua? 54:35 Might alien artefacts be more common than we expect? 58:48 The Drake equation 1:01:50 Where are the most likely great filters? 1:11:22 Difficulties in scientific culture and how they affect fruitful inquiry 1:27:03 The cosmic endowment, traveling to galactic clusters, and galactic treaties 1:31:34 Why don't we find evidence of alien superstructures? 1:36:36 Looking for the bio and techno signatures of alien life 1:40:27 Do alien civilizations converge on beneficence? 1:43:05 Is there a necessary relationship between what is true and good? 1:47:02 Is morality evidence based knowledge? 1:48:18 Axiomatic based knowledge and testing moral systems 1:54:08 International governance and making contact with alien life 1:55:59 The need for an elite scientific body to advise on global catastrophic and existential risk 1:59:57 What are the most fundamental questions? This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Nicolas Berggruen, investor and philanthropist, joins us to explore the dynamics of power, wisdom, technology and ideas in the 21st century. Topics discussed in this episode include: -What wisdom consists of -The role of ideas in society and civilization  -The increasing concentration of power and wealth -The technological displacement of human labor -Democracy, universal basic income, and universal basic capital  -Living an examined life You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/05/31/nicolas-berggruen-on-the-dynamics-of-power-wisdom-technology-and-ideas-in-the-age-of-ai/ Check out Nicolas' thoughts archive here: www.nicolasberggruen.com Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 1:45 The race between the power of our technology and the wisdom with which we manage it 5:19 What is wisdom?  8:30 The power of ideas  11:06 Humanity’s investment in wisdom vs the power of our technology  15:39 Why does our wisdom lag behind our power?  20:51 Technology evolving into an agent  24:28 How ideas play a role in the value alignment of technology  30:14 Wisdom for building beneficial AI and mitigating the race to power  34:37 Does Mark Zuckerberg have control of Facebook?  36:39 Safeguarding the human mind and maintaining control of AI  42:26 The importance of the examined life in the 21st century  45:56 An example of the examined life  48:54 Important ideas for the 21st century  52:46 The concentration of power and wealth, and a proposal for universal basic capital  1:03:07 Negative and positive futures  1:06:30 Final thoughts from Nicolas This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Bart Selman, Professor of Computer Science at Cornell University, joins us to discuss a wide range of AI issues, from autonomous weapons and AI consciousness to international governance and the possibilities of superintelligence. Topics discussed in this episode include: -Negative and positive outcomes from AI in the short, medium, and long-terms -The perils and promises of AGI and superintelligence -AI alignment and AI existential risk -Lethal autonomous weapons -AI governance and racing to powerful AI systems -AI consciousness You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/05/20/bart-selman-on-the-promises-and-perils-of-artificial-intelligence/ Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro  1:35 Futures that Bart is excited about                   4:08 Positive futures in the short, medium, and long-terms 7:23 AGI timelines  8:11 Bart’s research on “planning” through the game of Sokoban 13:10 If we don’t go extinct, is the creation of AGI and superintelligence inevitable?  15:28 What’s exciting about futures with AGI and superintelligence?  17:10 How long does it take for superintelligence to arise after AGI?  21:08 Would a superintelligence have something intelligent to say about income inequality?  23:24 Are there true or false answers to moral questions?  25:30 Can AGI and superintelligence assist with moral and philosophical issues? 28:07 Do you think superintelligences converge on ethics?  29:32 Are you most excited about the short or long-term benefits of AI?  34:30 Is existential risk from AI a legitimate threat?  35:22 Is the AI alignment problem legitimate?  43:29 What are futures that you fear?  46:24 Do social media algorithms represent an instance of the alignment problem?  51:46 The importance of educating the public on AI  55:00 Income inequality, cyber security, and negative futures  1:00:06 Lethal autonomous weapons  1:01:50 Negative futures in the long-term  1:03:26 How have your views of AI alignment evolved?  1:06:53 Bart’s plans and intentions for the Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence 1:13:45 Policy recommendations for existing AIs and the AI ecosystem  1:15:35 Solving the parts of the AI alignment that won’t be solved by industry incentives  1:18:17 Narratives of an international race to powerful AI systems  1:20:42 How does an international race to AI affect the chances of successful AI alignment?  1:23:20 Is AI a zero sum game?  1:28:51 Lethal autonomous weapons governance  1:31:38 Does the governance of autonomous weapons affect outcomes from AGI  1:33:00 AI consciousness  1:39:37 Alignment is important and the benefits of AI can be great This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Jaan Tallinn, investor, programmer, and co-founder of the Future of Life Institute, joins us to discuss his perspective on AI, synthetic biology, unknown unknows, and what's needed for mitigating existential risk in the 21st century. Topics discussed in this episode include: -Intelligence and coordination -Existential risk from AI, synthetic biology, and unknown unknowns -AI adoption as a delegation process -Jaan's investments and philanthropic efforts -International coordination and incentive structures -The short-term and long-term AI safety communities You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/04/20/jaan-tallinn-on-avoiding-civilizational-pitfalls-and-surviving-the-21st-century/ Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 1:29 How can humanity improve? 3:10 The importance of intelligence and coordination 8:30 The bottlenecks of input and output bandwidth as well as processing speed between AIs and humans 15:20 Making the creation of AI feel dangerous and how the nuclear power industry killed itself by downplaying risks 17:15 How Jaan evaluates and thinks about existential risk 18:30 Nuclear weapons as the first existential risk we faced 20:47 The likelihood of unknown unknown existential risks 25:04 Why Jaan doesn't see nuclear war as an existential risk 27:54 Climate change 29:00 Existential risk from synthetic biology 31:29 Learning from mistakes, lacking foresight, and the importance of generational knowledge 36:23 AI adoption as a delegation process 42:52 Attractors in the design space of AI 44:24 The regulation of AI 45:31 Jaan's investments and philanthropy in AI 55:18 International coordination issues from AI adoption as a delegation process 57:29 AI today and the negative impacts of recommender algorithms 1:02:43 Collective, institutional, and interpersonal coordination 1:05:23 The benefits and risks of longevity research 1:08:29 The long-term and short-term AI safety communities and their relationship with one another 1:12:35 Jaan's current philanthropic efforts 1:16:28 Software as a philanthropic target 1:19:03 How do we move towards beneficial futures with AI? 1:22:30 An idea Jaan finds meaningful 1:23:33 Final thoughts from Jaan 1:25:27 Where to find Jaan This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Joscha Bach, Cognitive Scientist and AI researcher, as well as Anthony Aguirre, UCSC Professor of Physics, join us to explore the world through the lens of computation and the difficulties we face on the way to beneficial futures.  Topics discussed in this episode include: -Understanding the universe through digital physics -How human consciousness operates and is structured -The path to aligned AGI and bottlenecks to beneficial futures -Incentive structures and collective coordination You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/03/31/joscha-bach-and-anthony-aguirre-on-digital-physics-and-moving-towards-beneficial-futures/ You can find FLI's three new policy focused job postings here: futureoflife.org/job-postings/ Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro 3:17 What is truth and knowledge? 11:39 What is subjectivity and objectivity? 14:32 What is the universe ultimately? 19:22 Is the universe a cellular automaton? Is the universe ultimately digital or analogue? 24:05 Hilbert's hotel from the point of view of computation 35:18 Seeing the world as a fractal 38:48 Describing human consciousness 51:10 Meaning, purpose, and harvesting negentropy 55:08 The path to aligned AGI 57:37 Bottlenecks to beneficial futures and existential security 1:06:53 A future with one, several, or many AGI systems? How do we maintain appropriate incentive structures? 1:19:39 Non-duality and collective coordination 1:22:53 What difficulties are there for an idealist worldview that involves computation? 1:27:20 Which features of mind and consciousness are necessarily coupled and which aren't? 1:36:40 Joscha's final thoughts on AGI This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.

Roman Yampolskiy, Professor of Computer Science at the University of Louisville, joins us to discuss whether we can control, comprehend, and explain AI systems, and how this constrains the project of AI safety.  Topics discussed in this episode include: -Roman’s results on the unexplainability, incomprehensibility, and uncontrollability of AI -The relationship between AI safety, control, and alignment -Virtual worlds as a proposal for solving multi-multi alignment -AI security You can find the page for this podcast here: https://futureoflife.org/2021/03/19/roman-yampolskiy-on-the-uncontrollability-incomprehensibility-and-unexplainability-of-ai/ You can find FLI's three new policy focused job postings here: https://futureoflife.org/job-postings/ Have any feedback about the podcast? You can share your thoughts here: www.surveymonkey.com/r/DRBFZCT Timestamps:  0:00 Intro  2:35 Roman’s primary research interests  4:09 How theoretical proofs help AI safety research  6:23 How impossibility results constrain computer science systems 10:18 The inability to tell if arbitrary code is friendly or unfriendly  12:06 Impossibility results clarify what we can do  14:19 Roman’s results on unexplainability and incomprehensibility  22:34 Focusing on comprehensibility  26:17 Roman’s results on uncontrollability  28:33 Alignment as a subset of safety and control  30:48 The relationship between unexplainability, incomprehensibility, and uncontrollability with each other and with AI alignment  33:40 What does it mean to solve AI safety?  34:19 What do the impossibility results really mean?  37:07 Virtual worlds and AI alignment  49:55 AI security and malevolent agents  53:00 Air gapping, boxing, and other security methods  58:43 Some examples of historical failures of AI systems and what we can learn from them  1:01:20 Clarifying impossibility results 1:06 55 Examples of systems failing and what these demonstrate about AI  1:08:20 Are oracles a valid approach to AI safety?  1:10:30 Roman’s final thoughts This podcast is possible because of the support of listeners like you. If you found this conversation to be meaningful or valuable, consider supporting it directly by donating at futureoflife.org/donate. Contributions like yours make these conversations possible.