Veterans of Culture Wars

EPISODE REPLAY:  We were honored to talk with Christian activist Shane Claiborne earlier this year about America's epidemic of gun violence.  We recorded this episode on March 24th - a few days after mass shootings in Atlanta and Boulder, and the 3rd anniversary of the March For Our Lives. The conversation includes why gun violence is both a heart problem and a law/legislation problem, why Americans make idols of guns and rugged individualism, and Virginia becoming the 23rd state to outlaw the death penalty.  The problem of gun violence can certainly look bleak, but Shane has an infectious hope that meaningful change is possible, and we felt more hopeful after talking with him. "He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples.  They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.  Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." Isaiah 2:4, NIV Find Shane Claiborne online: Twitter:  @shaneclaiborne Facebook:  ShaneClaiborne Instagram:  ShaneClaiborne Books by Shane Claiborne: Beating Guns: Hope for People Who are Weary of Violence by Shane Claiborne and Michael Martin. Order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books/products/beating-guns-hope-for-people-who-are-weary-of-violence Executing Grace: How the Death Penalty Killed Jesus and Why Its Killing us by Shane Claiborne.  Order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books/products/beating-guns-hope-for-people-who-are-weary-of-violence Other books by Shane you can view and order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books Article on Shane Claiborne's activism:  https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/god-guns-and-country-the-evangelical-fight-over-firearms Mentioned on the Pod: Article:  Virginia bans the death penalty.  https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/virginia-governor-signs-law-death-penalty/index.html Article:  8 million people have left the church between 2016-2020.  https://newrepublic.com/article/161772/can-religion-give-ptsd Article:  Seeing Gun Violence as Pro-Life Issue by Shane Claiborne.  https://baptistnews.com/article/seeing-gun-violence-as-a-pro-life-issue/#.YGOmJ0hKiSM Article:  Rethinking the Second Amendment by Shane Claiborne.  https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/3/24/22347346/maybe-its-time-to-rethink-the-second-amendment-christians -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Jolie Monea and Tiffany Eneas, formerly members of The Trinity Church in Scottsdale, AZ, join the pod to talk about their experiences at Mark Driscoll's desert church, where Mark and Grace Driscoll present themselves as spiritual "father" and "mother" in front of the church while congregants are the "family". Jolie also shares about how her long-term friendship with the Driscolls (one of her daughters is married to one of the Driscoll sons) led to her family being part of a small home group with them after Mark resigned from Mars Hill, then ultimately moving with the Driscolls from Seattle down to Scottsdale when Mark was starting The Trinity Church.  Finally, Tiffany shares how God used Beavis and Butthead to bring her and her husband (former guest Ben Eneas) together. Mentioned on the pod: Professor Warren Throckmorton interviews former Mars Hill Executive Elders Sutton Turner and Dave Bruskas:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkPwP4ng5l4 Jolie Monea's "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/07/02/postcards-from-phoenix-when-family-ties-are-tested/ Tiffany Eneas' "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/06/02/postcards-from-phoenix-when-church-demands-obedience/ Kim Thompson's "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/08/12/postcards-from-phoenix-too-good-to-be-true/ Luke Chase's "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/05/30/postcards-from-phoenix-when-church-divides-a-family/ Babylon Bee:  Marco Driscolito:  https://babylonbee.com/news/hot-new-seattle-church-launched-by-mexican-american-pastor-marco-driscolito?fbclid=IwAR1nYkZGiru_uSh_8qBMVISfFJSYeQ3cXbAYaF2nVeLiifhCZKO94ahvsGQ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Larry Norman biographer Gregory Alan Thornbury (Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music) joins the podcast to talk about the godfather of Christian rock music and the larger Jesus Movement that he inspired and later disavowed. He also talks about Critical Kayfabe Theory, a way of interpreting the actions of public figures like Mark Driscoll through the lens of professional wrestlers, who have a strict code of staying in character, and what happens when things go off script.  Get a copy of "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music: Larry Norman and the Perils of Christian Rock" right here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/537583/why-should-the-devil-have-all-the-good-music-by-gregory-alan-thornbury/ Follow Greg Thornbury on Twitter:  @greg_thornbury Read the viral article on Kayfabe theory on David Dark's Substack:  https://daviddark.substack.com/p/on-metaphor-and-kayfabe -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Our first official return guest, Stephanie Drury from Stuff Christian Culture Likes, comes back on the pod. We talk about a variety of things related to the Christianity Today podcast "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill". In what ways did Mark Driscoll shape Mars Hill into a rape culture and teach about sex in specific ways that re-traumatized victims of sexual violence? Why did so many women at Mars Hill reach out to Stephanie, and what were their stories like? Is the Christianity Today podcast doing a better job of centering victims or protecting institutions? Find Stephanie: Twitter:  @Stuffcclikes Facebook:  Stuff Christian Culture Likes Website:  www.stuffchristianculturelikes.com Podcasts:  "Dongtini", "Hard Feelings Bro" Some Podcasts where she was a guest:  https://www.owltail.com/people/yNFHA-stephanie-drury/appearances -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Matt Nightingale joins us to discuss the new Netflix documentary Pray Away, his own experience with gay conversion therapy, and his subsequent journey to acceptance, involving coming out as a married dad in his 40s. We also talk about 2 major figures in evangelicalism and what they meant to him: author Rachel Held Evans, and Jesus Movement hippie preacher Lonnie Frisbee, a gay man who claimed to meet Jesus during an LSD trip in the desert and was instrumental in the founding of the Calvary Chapel and Vineyard denominations. Connect with Matt Nightingale: Website:  https://mattnightingale.com/ Twitter:  @mattnightingale Matt's church, The Quest:  https://wearethequest.org/ Matt's non-profit, Common Sanctuary:  https://mattnightingale.com/common-sanctuary/ Mentioned on the Pod: Book- "Searching for Sunday:  Loving, Leaving and Finding the Church" by Rachel Held Evans.  Order here:  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/searching-for-sunday-loving-leaving-and-finding-the-church/9198144/#edition=8484461&idiq=8270902 Book:  "Inspired:  Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again" by Rachel Held Evans.  Order here:  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/inspired-slaying-giants-walking-on-water-and-loving-the-bible-again_rachel-held-evans/18601414/#edition=19797699&idiq=27978585 Documentary:  "Frisbee: The Life and Death of a Hippie Preacher". Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv3O8SseOio Documentary:  Netflix's "Pray Away".  Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Stories of control and paranoia from The Trinity Church, where at least one leader believes Mark Driscoll is the closest thing to Jesus on earth. Chad and Ben talk about how they ended up there, why they left, and why they feel Mark Driscoll should not be leading a church. Follow Chad Freese on Twitter:  @deardriscoll Mentioned on the podcast: -Former security director Chad Freese's website:  https://www.deardriscoll.com/ -Tiffany Eneas (Ben's wife) wrote about her experiences on Warren Throckmorton's blog:  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/06/02/postcards-from-phoenix-when-church-demands-obedience/ -Julie Roys interview where Chad and Ben shared their experiences and other accounts at The Trinity Church:  https://julieroys.com/podcast/inside-the-driscoll-cult/ -Warren Throckmorton interviews former executive elders at Mars Hill Church, Sutton Turner and Dave Bruskas:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkPwP4ng5l4 -A 15 year old teenager and one of Driscoll's daughters share a kiss and the aftermath:  https://churchleaders.com/news/396679-new-church-similar-stories-is-mark-driscoll-an-abusive-leader.html -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave discuss the first three episodes of Christianity Today's new podcast "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" by Mike Cosper, and Zach gives his thoughts on the fourth episode (which was released after our initial recording). Mentioned in this episode: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill: https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/ Raft of Dead Monkeys: https://raftofdeadmonkeys.bandcamp.com/ Ninety Pound Wuss: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0VOvF0kfqCTRe37XzWQdvH Suffering and the Hideous Thieves: https://open.spotify.com/artist/7oAXG4Q2lwnj2xhUDE67bt -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Evangelical subculture has a habit of copying different art forms from the wider culture.  In the era of superhero movies developed from long running Marvel and DC comic books, what were Christian comic books like?  Cultural critic and co-host of the podcast Young Adult Movie Ministry, Sam Thielman joins the pod to discuss Christian comic books and committed Christian personalities who have worked in the comic industry.  He also shares his story with Evangelical Christianity including his family's connection to Billy Graham and Franklin Graham.   Connect with Sam Thielman: @samthielman on Twitter Subscribe to Young Adult Movie Ministry Podcast:  https://yammpod.substack.com/ Mentioned on the Pod: -Sam writes on the Satanic Panic via a film review of "The Conjuring:  The Devil Made Me Do It":  https://popula.com/2021/06/28/demons-panic-and-memory/ -Sam's obituary for Christian comic writer Jack Chick in The Guardian:  https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death -Unpublished DC Comic where Swamp Thing meets Jesus Christ.  Information on that issue here:  https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Swamp_Thing_Vol_2_88_(Unpublished) -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author, mom, and math teacher Wendy Alsup joins the podcast to talk about masculinity (farmers vs warriors), her excellent book "Companions in Suffering", and her thoughts on forgiveness (which will be in a forthcoming book released in January 2022). Connect with Wendy Alsup: Website featuring her ministry and work:  https://theologyforwomen.org/ Email:  theologyforwomen@gmail.com Twitter:  @wendyalsup Mentioned on the pod: -Wendy's article on masculinity (farmers vs warriors):  https://modernreformation.org/resource-library/web-exclusive-articles/the-model-for-christian-manhood/ -Wendy's book "Companions in Suffering:  Comfort for Times of Loss and Loneliness".  Buy the book here:  https://www.ivpress.com/companions-in-suffering -Wendy's book "Is the Bible Good for Women?".  Buy the book here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/536308/is-the-bible-good-for-women-by-wendy-alsup/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Do evangelicals want to know the truth about abusive pastors? American history? Conversion therapy? In this wide ranging interview, Professor Warren Throckmorton talks about his Baptist background and journey with Evangelical Christianity. He discusses being a psychology professor and studying gender and sexuality, learning and changing his mind on LGBTQ issues and opposing an anti-gay law in Uganda. We also discuss his reporting on Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church continuing on with Driscoll's current organization, The Trinity Church in Scottsdale, Arizona. Read Professor Throckmorton's reporting (including about Mark Driscoll and Trinity Church) here: https://www.wthrockmorton.com/ Other reporting about Mark Driscoll and Trinity Church: -https://julieroys.com/mark-driscoll-cult-like-actions-24-7-surveillance-loyalty/ -https://julieroys.com/driscoll-honeymoon-church-funds-interns-gift-cards/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm