The Playlist Podcast Network

With over a hundred acting credits to his name, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more productive actor in the business than Willem Dafoe. From superhero blockbusters to prestige pictures, to anime adaptations, to video games, to a nautical descent into madness, Dafoe has done it all, and now the actor joins me for this special episode of The Fourth Wall to discuss his incredible year between "The Lighthouse" and "Motherless Brooklyn." It was only last year that Dafoe garnered awards recognition by way of a Best Actor nomination for his portrayal of Vincent Van Gogh in "At Eternity's Gate" and Best Supporting Actor the year prior for his work in "The Florida Project." While the 2020 Awards Season is still young, Oscar Buzz has been circling the actor yet again for his salty Shakespearean lighthouse keeper in Robert Eggers' "The Lighthouse" ever since it's premiere at Sundance earlier this year. There's no doubt that Dafoe's proven ability and desire to select distinct and interesting projects has allowed him to deliver some of his best work to date as of late. However, what's truly captivating about the 64-year-old as a performer is his unabashed love of the art form. It's precisely this passion that seeps into each of Dafoe's performances and is what's driven the actor to remain consistently active as he broadens his horizons. During our conversation, we discussed Dafoe's love of acting, his drive to remain busy, creative differences between playing characters based off of existing source material vs. wholly original ones, his process for delivering "The Lighthouse's" epic monologues, working with both Edward Norton the director and actor, his excitement for collaborating with Guillermo del Toro on "Nightmare Ally" and much more.

Writer/Director Trey Edward Shults joins me for Episode 12 of The Fourth Wall to talk about his third feature "Waves" (my FAVORITE film of the year) discussing the critical moments in his own life that directly inspired the events of the film. As A24's "Waves" comes crashing into select theaters this Friday, it's astounding to think that such a profoundly human, visceral, and heartwrenching tale is the work of a filmmaker on their third feature film, however, not every filmmaker is Trey Edward Shults. The Houston native, who's previous two works, "Krisha" and "It Comes at Night," both garnered praise for their craftsmanship and intimate exploration of family, puts forth his most personal venture yet cementing his utter mastery over the art of filmmaking. He’s a storyteller who thinks with emotions first and how he can let those feelings take flight in a way that allows audiences to experience what he so deeply feels. Perhaps his prowess over the visual grammar of filmmaking originated during his time working on Terrence Malick movies possessing the same cerebral tendencies as the master above. However, there’s something distinctly provocative about how Shults captures the human experience, and nowhere is this more apparent than in"Waves." Across all three of his feature films, Shults has explored a constant thematic through-line of complicated family relationships to which the director himself admits inherently seeps its way into his work. Much of this stems from his upbringing and turbulent relationship with his biological father who's impact has been the subject of exploration across Shults' feature films with "Waves" harkening back to the pivotal final moments he spent with his father in autobiographical fashion. By boldly utilizing direct experiences from his own life, Shults understands the innate power in being open and honest with an audience. During our conversation, it became clearer that the filmmaker is someone who will always speak from the heart through personal experiences. This openness comes in the form of a wrestling injury, a pivotal conversation he had with his stepfather, a road trip he and his girlfriend took, and most importantly, his friendship with Kelvin Harrison Jr. as they bonded and meditated over "Waves" to Frank Ocean's "Blond" and "Endless." Shults recalls and interweaves these specific exchanges in such vivid detail, conveying his mastery of human emotion and understanding the relatable power these personal experiences will have in allowing an audience to connect. Those moments truly come alive, however, through the use of a perfectly curated soundtrack that was formative in the creation of the film and an interactive scripting process. During our conversation, we also discuss the first time Shults listened to Radiohead's "Moon Shaped Pool," his use of aspect ratio, color, movement, and how he discovered his cinematic voice.

With “Parasite” poised to become 2019's highest-grossing foreign film within the US and already among the year's most lauded features, Be Reel is taking this week for an episode entirely focused on Bong Joon-ho and his two decades of routinely stellar work. In addition to the "Parasite" deep-dive, longtime listeners might notice the Be Reel guys breaking a cardinal rule: they once swore to never discuss “Snowpiercer” on the podcast because of the unrest it caused their friendship in 2013. Buckle up. Then, “The Host” rounds out today’s main trio of genre pictures that are not anything that they seem. Finally, Chance stumps for the elusive "Memories of Murder" and Be Reel asks, "Why do Director Bong's observations on Korean culture seem to resonate so strongly with American cinephiles? (**Please note: "Parasite" spoilers commence hard between 15 and 36 minutes.)

"Motherless Brooklyn" marks a twenty-year journey for writer, director, producer, and star Edward Norton and Norton joins me to discuss the film on Episode 11 of The Fourth Wall. Norton is truly one of the great talents of our generation whose diverse body of work has spanned across films such as “Primal Fear” and “American History X,” both of which earned him Academy Award Nominations, “Fight Club,” “The Incredible Hulk,” and “Birdman” just to name a few. In the mere twenty-some minutes we chatted, it became clear that not only is Norton a massive fan of cinema, more specifically film noir, but is riveted by projects that have something to say about our current societal moment. He's a firm believer in Joseph Campbell's concept of transparency and that the most potent art is that which reflects our own image back at us. For all the "Chinatown" callbacks and reverence for classic film noir, it was precisely this concept that allowed Norton to get to the heart of his take on "Motherless Brooklyn." During our conversation, we go deep into the films that excite and inspire Norton along with how growing up the grandson of a community builder helped shape his approach to "Motherless Brooklyn" and why movies like "The Big Sleep" and "Chinatown" were so influential. "Motherless Brooklyn" hits theaters this Friday, November 1st.

1991's "Terminator: Judgement Day" is finally getting a proper sequel in the highly anticipated "Terminator: Dark Fate," and my guest for Episode 10 of The Fourth Wall is the film's director Tim Miller. Tim has become somewhat of a rising star given the breakout success of 2016's "Deadpool." While the filmmaker sadly departed the sequel due to creative differences (see Tim's original plan for "Deadpool 2"), a new opportunity arose in the form revamping the Terminator franchise. A veteran of the visual effects industry, Tim became acquainted with James Cameron while Blur Studio (Tim's visual effects, animation, and design company) completed work on "Avatar." From there, and with the help of several abysmal Terminator sequels, the cogs began to turn, and the notion of a proper sequel to "T2" started becoming a reality. It's easy for many filmmakers early in their career to buy into their own hype (especially coming off of one of the most profitable R rated films of all time), however, with Tim the idea of openness and collaboration is something he very much encourages and stems from the environment he's fostered at Blur. During our conversation, Tim's desire to genuinely make a good movie that audiences will not only enjoy but that he himself is proud of became apparent, and many of "Dark Fate's" key contributions came from members of the cast to which Miller praised to no end. We also discussed the film's prominent Latinx representation, working with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Linda Hamilton, how Hamilton wanted to go even darker with Sarah Conner this go around, emerging filmmaking technologies that excite Tim the most, and much more.

Charlie Chaplin lampooning Hitler’s bombast and fragility in “The Great Dictator” (1940) marked one of film comedy’s all-time “truth to power” moments. But 80 years after WWII, how best to laugh at fascists when they seldom don the brownshirt? With the release of Taika Waititi’s “Jojo Rabbit”—a would-be charming comedy about a Hitler youth whose imaginary friend is der Führer—Chance and Noah ask themselves why, how, and when skewered Nazis are funny. After reviewing “Jojo,” Chance and Noah duck back to “The Producers” (1967) and “Top Secret!” (1984) to examine how Nazis became a source of irony and camp for filmmakers like Mel Brooks and the ZAZ trio. As always—down with Hitler; all the way down.

"The Bourne Legacy," "Jason Bourne," and "Treadstone" producer Ben Smith joins me for Episode 9 of The Fourth Wall to talk about expanding the World of Jason Bourne in the Bourne spin-off series. Making for the perfect blend of "24" meets "Heroes," the series marks an almost decade long journey for Smith as he's had his heart set on expanding the world that Robert Ludlum created. Perhaps much of this influence comes from the involvement of "Heroes" creator Tim Kring, who Smith discussed collaborating with, and stunt coordinator from "The Bourne Ultimatum," but at the heart of it, what excited Smith the most was the opportunity to explore the mythology of not only the films but Ludlum's novels in order to tell very personal and interconnected stories that were affected by the geopolitical landscape of today. "The base that Ludlum created is very rich," said Smith, "and I think it's a perfect fit for television. You just have a lot more real estate to dive into a lot of different characters which is what we've done on 'Treadstone.'" For those unaware, "Treadstone" tells the origins of the secret government organization that led to the birth of Jason Bourne. Taking place in 1973 and present day, the series follows these sleeper agents from the Cicada Program (another program under the Treadstone umbrella) as they mysteriously begin to awaken around the globe ten years after audiences meet Jason Bourne in "The Bourne Identity." The prospect of crossing over "Treadstone" with Matt Damon's Jason Bourne or even Jeremy Renner's Aaron Cross is certainly something that would excite fans of the franchise and even Smith himself, however, it all comes down to what the story requires. "What's happening in the world of Bourne is independent of what's happening right now in 'Treadstone,'" said Smith. "There is crossover mythology, but there is no planned tie-in today." During my conversation with Smith, we discussed the long journey to creating "Treadstone," balancing character storytelling with that signature Bourne action, the work that went into the stunt choreography, his relationship with Ludlum's novels and the Bourne franchise as a whole, and actors he'd like to see play in the expansive Bourne sandbox.

We speak to director/producer/actor/dancer Carolina Monnerat about Brazil and the movies she's made, including the new "Queen of Lapa."

Andy Muschietti joins me for Episode 8 of The Fourth Wall to discuss "IT Chapter Two" in full spoilers! Andy first garnered the attention of many with his 2013 debut "Mama." The film was based on his three minute short of the same name which also piqued the interest of Guillermo del Toro who went on to executive produce the feature. Muschietti's work and success on "Mama" proved him to be a real emerging talent in the horror genre and it's easy to see why he was brought on for the adaptation of Stephen King's "IT." Embarking on a massive undertaking, Muschietti brought to life King's novel for a new generation amassing both critical and commercial success as 2017's "It" became the highest-grossing horror film of all time. It's only fitting that "IT Chapter Two" is hot on its heels as the film already has the second-highest horror movie opening of all time. While the adult portion of "IT" has always been notoriously divisive, Muschietti understood that in order for it to work, he needed to cut out some of King's more outlandish material and maintain focus on the Losers and their journey. For this, the director looked to classics that had an impact on him at an early age such as "The Neverending Story" and "E.T." for inspiration. During our conversation, we not only discuss how Muschietti managed to create such a satisfying conclusion but we also get into how he crafted some incredibly seamless and inventive scene transitions, the challenges of making a two hour and forty-five-minute horror epic, reinventing the character of Ritchie, and, in relation to the film's meta-commentary about creators who can't properly end their stories, his favorite movie that couldn't quite nail the ending (his answer may surprise you).

Nobody tells you about the bonus round after the million-dollar question—the one where we ask, "Why have we obsessed for 70 years over the TV game show in all its inherent fakeness, exploitation, and only a lottery ticket's chance of paying the common person their money?" This week, BE REEL is buzzing in, to reappraise "Quiz Show" on its 25th anniversary, "Slumdog Millionaire" one decade after it took home the Oscars' highest honor, and "The Running Man" because it's a very silly movie that clearly set the stage for "American Gladiators." Press play; you might win something!