Respecting Religion

In a conversation broadcast live on May 27, Amanda and Holly provide updates on a day of big news in the religious liberty world. They first look at the surprising 4-4 deadlock from the U.S. Supreme Court in the Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond case, which preserves a religious liberty principle by stopping the creation of the nation's first religious charter school. They also discuss the troubling school voucher proposal that was slipped into the budget reconciliation bill that the U.S. House of Representatives narrowly passed on May 22, offering tips on how you can help stop it as it goes to the Senate. Plus, they give an update on last week's court order stopping President Trump's dismantling of the Department of Education and share why that's good news for public education and religious freedom. Show notes: You can watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/live/i8S3xcBTs14?feature=shared Holly read the entire two sentence decision in the Drummond case, which is available on the Supreme Court's website. You can also read Holly's statement released the day of the Oklahoma v. Drummond decision on BJC's website. The discussion of the budget reconciliation bill starts at 8:23. BJC has a website page with the latest on the bill and the actions you can take to stop it in the Senate. Visit BJConline.org/budgetbill2025 for more, including tips on finding a town hall to attend so you can connect with your lawmaker in person. Click here to directly contact your U.S. Senators about the voucher provision, using our simple form. Want to send us a video or an audio recording about why this budget bill would harm your community? Click here! On May 22 – the same day the House passed the budget bill and the Supreme Court released its Drummond decision – U.S. District Judge Myong Joun granted a preliminary injunction stopping the Trump administration from dismantling the Department of Education. The conversation about this begins at 15:04. Want to make sure you don't miss future live episodes of the podcast? Subscribe to our email list to be notified of future shows, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Bluesky, X, or LinkedIn. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

The most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church composition. That's not government neutrality toward religion – that's religious preference repackaged as educational choice. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 01:53): Developments since our previous show Amanda and Holly talked about the Catholic Charities/Wisconsin case in episode 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times We released our episode with Melissa Rogers to coincide with the first 100 days of the Trump administration. It is episode 13 of season 6: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good President Donald Trump issued a proclamation on the National Day of Prayer and he signed an executive order on the same day establishing the Religious Liberty Commission. The American Bar Association has a website page dedicated to National Law Day You can click this link to read President Donald Trump's proclamation on "Loyalty Day and Law Day." The Respecting Religion podcast won a 2025 "Best in Class" award from the Religion Communicators Council's DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards for our episode titled: "But … is it Christian nationalism?" from season 5. Segment 2 (starting at 09:51): Oral arguments in Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond Holly mentioned this article from The Washington Post by Justin Jouvenal and Laura Meckler that provides an overview of the case: How religious public schools went from a long shot to the Supreme Court Holly and Amanda discussed these cases as they worked their way through the courts in episode 16 of season 5: The trouble with *religious* charter schools BJC filed an amicus brief in Oklahoma v. Drummond, along with other Christian organizations as well as Jewish, Muslim and interfaith groups. Click here to read our brief. We played four clips in this segment from the oral arguments in Oklahoma v. Drummond. You can visit the Supreme Court's website for a transcript of the arguments and an audio recording of the arguments. Clip #1: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson & Solicitor General John Sauer Clip #2: Chief Justice John Roberts Clip #3: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson Clip #4: Justice Elena Kagan & Michael McGinley Amanda and Holly mentioned three decisions authored by Chief Justice John Roberts that developed a new way of understanding the Free Exercise Clause. They are: Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017) Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020) Carson v. Makin (2022) Holly's 2017 column on the Trinity Lutheran decision is titled "Decidedly narrow, deeply troubling." Segment 3 (starting 37:12): What do we expect? We played one clip from the oral argument in this segment: The opening statement of Greg Garre, who argued the case for the attorney general of Oklahoma. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Melissa Rogers joins the podcast for a conversation about how each of us can take steps to promote religious freedom and the common good in the United States today. After leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations, she shares her inside perspective on government, where we are right now, and how people can truly make an impact. Our religious freedom protects everyone's right to bring their faith to the public square, and you won't want to miss this conversation about opportunities we have as Americans to engage government at all levels and express ourselves in the face of injustice. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The genius of our constitutional protections for religious freedom Melissa Rogers served as the executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations. You can click here to read her extensive biography. She is the author of Faith in American Public Life, published in 2019. She has been on two earlier BJC podcasts: Respecting Religion, S2, Ep. 06: What's next? The Biden administration and religious liberty (2020) The Dangers of Christian Nationalism series, episode 9: Religious freedom, church-state law and Christian nationalism (2019), alongside Rabbi David Saperstein. You also can watch a video of that podcast. NOTE: On April 21, we released a special podcast episode recorded at the same time as this conversation, focusing on the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law. Click here to hear that portion of the conversation. Segment 2 (starting at 10:09): Our current moment as a country Here are links with more information from this portion of the conversation: Melissa discussed the work of the federal government to protect places of worship. Protecting Houses of Worship is a helpful resource on this topic from the CISA (the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency of the Department of Homeland Security). She also mentioned the Biden-Harris administration's work on countering hate. One example is the United We Stand Summit in 2022: Taking Action to Prevent and Address Hate-Fueled Violence and Foster Unity. Click here to read more about the summit, or click here to watch the full summit proceedings. In addition, the Biden-Harris administration released the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Antisemitism in 2023, and the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Islamophobia and Anti-Arab Hate in 2024. Learn more about BJC's Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org. Segment 3 (starting 16:52): Practical ways to take action Here are a few resources and organizations to connect with if you are interested in responding to governmental actions, including by sharing information about their impact on you or your community: DOGE cuts: Have you been impacted by DOGE cuts? Share your story with the Center for American Progress Article published by The Century Foundation: We Led Federal Agencies. Here Are 10 Ways That President Trump and Elon Musk's Attacks on Federal Workers Will Hurt You by Mark Zuckerman, Julie Su, Lauren McFerran, Gayle Goldin, Rachel West, Chiquita Brooks-LaSure, Ruth Friedman, Carole Johnson, Viviann Anguiano, Kayla Patrick and Loredana Valtierra Information on various lawsuits challenging governmental actions: Melissa mentioned the lawsuit challenging the recission of the "sensitive locations" guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit on our website, which is being led by Democracy Forward. Another lawsuit on sensitive locations is also being pursued by a group led by the Institute for Congressional Advocacy and Protection. You can find more information about this and other pending lawsuits here: Updates from Democracy Forward Just Security's litigation tracker Legal actions of CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington) Resource on how to protect democracy: Protecting Democracy's Faithful Fight Toolkit Interested in calling your congressional representatives about issues you care about? Here's how you can find their contact information: Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House Click here to find your U.S. Senators Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

On this special bonus episode of the Respecting Religion podcast, we are featuring a conversation that could not wait until our normal release date. In this still-developing story, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was mistakenly removed by the U.S. government from Maryland to El Salvador. His case and series of injustices are not just things that move all of us as people of faith, but there are also profound ramifications of this situation on due process, the rule of law and freedom for everyone living in our country. Our next full episode of Respecting Religion will feature a conversation with Melissa Rogers, a lawyer who served in two different presidential administrations leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships. While recording that episode, the conversation turned to this ongoing injustice, and we decided that part of our conversation couldn't wait until our normal release date. SHOW NOTES Articles with additional information: Timeline: Wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador (ABC News) Video: Jennifer Vasquez making her statement supporting her husband (ABC News) Article: Democrats Land in El Salvador, Seeking Release of Maryland Resident (New York Times) Interested in calling your congressional representatives about this issue? Here's how you can find their contact information: Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House Click here to find your U.S. Senators

There has been no shortage of news from all three branches of government in Washington, D.C., but one thing hasn't changed: the U.S. Supreme Court continues to be interested in religious liberty cases. On today's show, Amanda and Holly review the recent oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin, which focuses on a religious exemption in the state's unemployment compensation laws. There are big questions being asked in this case, such as where one draws the lines, how can "religion" be defined, and what is meant – exactly – by the term "proselytization." Plus, Holly and Amanda take a moment to step back and talk about the current attacks we are seeing on the rule of law in our country. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): Current state of the courts and various attacks on the rule of law There are three church-state cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term: Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (Oral arguments were March 31) Mahmoud v. Taylor (oral arguments will be April 22) Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond (oral arguments will be April 30) Segment 2 (starting at 08:00): Oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Visit the website of the U.S. Supreme Court for a transcript and an audio recording of the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin. We played a clip from the oral arguments between Justice Neil Gorsuch and Colin Roth, who argued the case as the assistant attorney general for the state of Wisconsin. You can read the exchange beginning on page 81 of the oral argument transcript. Holly and Amanda mentioned the 2021 case of Fulton v. Philadelphia. Read more about that case on BJC's website. Read Amy Howe's coverage of the Catholic Charities case for SCOTUSblog: Supreme Court likely to embrace expanded tax exemption for religious charities Read Adam Liptak's coverage for the New York Times: Supreme Court Leans Toward Catholic Charity in Tax Case Segment 3 (starting 26:48): Decision thoughts and what's ahead Amanda mentioned the upcoming Oklahoma v. Drummond case. BJC filed a brief in that case, and you can read it on our website. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

African Americans' knowledge traditions, religious practices, political cultures and ideas are rich resources that facilitate new concepts of religious freedom. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Dr. Sabrina E. Dent and Dr. Corey D. B. Walker join Amanda and Holly to discuss the book they co-edited, African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. It's a collection of essays that provide novel interpretations of religious freedom informed by African American experiences, which are essential for a full public discourse about the topic. First released in the days before the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, the second edition includes a new preface addressing the need for religious freedom to undergo a deep interrogation in our perilous times. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Introducing the book and the conversations it inspires Dr. Sabrina E. Dent is the director of the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation. Learn more about her on BJC's website. Dr. Corey D. B. Walker is the dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, Wake Forest Professor of the Humanities, and director of the Program in African American Studies. Learn more about him on the Wake Forest University School of Divinity website. The second edition of African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities is now available, free to all. Dr. Dent mentioned the religious freedom course with students from religious graduate schools at historically Black colleges and universities that began many of these conversations. Read about that in this 2019 article by Adelle Banks for Religion News Service: Black seminarians take first-time religious freedom course Learn more and read the text of David Walker's Appeal to the Coloured Citizens of the World on the website of the National Constitution Center. The Columbia Law School Law, Rights & Religion Project released the Black Religious Liberty Curriculum in 2024. You can see the 12-part video series and access the curriculum on their website. Segment 2 (starting at 18:51): Pushback and barriers to expanding the narrative You can access a PDF or read a flip-through edition of the book African Americans and Religious Freedom. Visit our website for more details. Segment 3 (starting 31:01): The launch event on February 28 You can watch a recording of the Feb. 28 event celebrating the re-release of the book on YouTube. The Rev. William Lamar IV talked with NPR about the ruling that gave his church the copyright of the Proud Boys. You can listen to his conversation here. Learn more about the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation on our website at BJConline.org/center Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Actions and rumors of actions in Washington, D.C., are continuing to dominate the news cycle and keep people on edge. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Amanda and Holly discuss the devastation of dismantling the Department of Education and the problematic push for a nationwide school voucher program. They also look at the latest in the battle between faith communities and the Trump administration to protect sensitive locations from immigration raids, and they preview the three religious liberty cases on the Supreme Court's docket this term. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Federal school vouchers, shutting down the Department of Education, and a potential new travel ban Holly mentioned this story on the school voucher proposals by Laura Meckler for The Washington Post: GOP voucher plan would divert billions in taxes to private schools If you want to contact your representatives in Washington about the trouble with school voucher programs, click here to use our convenient form to email them directly. Amanda mentioned this story from Inside Higher Education about potential plans to shut down the Department of Education: Draft Order Offers Hints to How Trump Wants to Shut Down the Department After we recorded this episode, the administration began gutting the Department of Education through layoffs instead of an executive order. Amanda released a statement calling it a "reckless move," which you can read on our website. We also sent out an alert about the issue to the members of BJC's email list, and it included a form they can use to contact their members of Congress about the problems with shutting down the Department of Education. Click here to use our convenient form to email your members directly about this issue. Sign up for BJC's email updates for immediate alerts when there are ways to take action: BJConline.org/subscribe The New York Times previews the possible new travel ban in this article: Trump Administration Prepares to Revive and Expand Travel Bans. BJC consistently called out the dangers of the travel ban during the first Trump administration, including the very first one on Jan. 27, 2017. Segment 2 (starting at 16:26): Sensitive locations and calling on Congress to do their job There are two current lawsuits challenging the administration's guidance on sensitive locations. In the lawsuit from Quaker congregations, a Sikh temple and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the judge issued an injunction on February 24 that blocks immigration officials from entering their houses of worship to conduct immigration enforcement operations. Read about that order on Democracy Forward's website. Holly mentioned a new bill in Congress called Protecting Sensitive Locations Act. You are invited to join Faithful Witness Wednesdays throughout the month of March, as people of faith gather on the Capitol grounds to call on Congress to take action. Sign up for the March 19 or the Mach 26 events, which are organized by Sojourners and the Washington Interfaith Staff Community. Amanda spoke at the March 5 Faithful Witness Wednesday – you can watch a recording on the SojoAction YouTube channel and see photos on BJC's Facebook page. Segment 3 (starting 25:35): Three religious liberty cases headed to SCOTUS Amanda and Holly mentioned the emergency order from the Supreme Court to re-start payments for aid work that had been completed. Read more in this story by Justin Jouvenal, Annie Gowen and Ann E. Marimow for The Washington Post: Supreme Court says judge can force Trump administration to pay foreign aid Amanda and Holly mentioned three religious liberty cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term: Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (March 31) The consolidated cases of Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond and St. Isidore of Seville Catholic Virtual School v. Drummond (April 30) Mahmoud v. Taylor (April 22) Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

In our second show of the second Trump administration, Amanda and Holly run through a list of recent events that point to a gross misunderstanding of what "religious freedom" means. They review the policy announcements made during the National Prayer Breakfast – including the creation of a task force to "eradicate anti-Christian bias" – and they look at how this administration's accusations and actions are limiting the religious freedom of several Christian groups who serve others. They also discuss the growing resistance, including court challenges and two opportunities for action to share your views with Congress and the Trump administration. In the final segment, Amanda and Holly share how BJC is celebrating Black History Month with a special invitation. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): The National Prayer Breakfast and an anti-Chrisitan bias task force Listen to Amanda and Holly's previous conversations on the National Prayer Breakfast in the following episodes: S1, Ep. 01 in 2020, beginning at 28:44 into that first episode of this podcast series. S4, Ep. 11 in 2023, exploring the many questions it raises and how it differs from the National Day of Prayer. After the second event tied to the National Prayer Breakfast, President Trump released an executive order creating the White House Faith Office and announced his appointments to the office. On the same day, he released an executive order creating the Task Force to Eradicate Anti-Christian Bias. Amanda posted her reaction to that action on Bluesky. In her testimony before Congress in 2018, Amanda spoke about the need to acknowledge and address violence and rhetoric directed against religious minorities in the U.S. and abroad. Segment 2 (starting at 14:29): Executive order on education, lawsuits on immigration, and the rescinding of the sensitive locations memo President Trump released an executive order titled "Expanding Educational Freedom and Opportunity for Families" and BJC shared our concerns in a statement about how such an act would undermine religious freedom. The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship joined the lawsuit filed by Quaker congregations challenging the removal of the "sensitive locations" guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit on our website. After we recorded this podcast, another lawsuit was filed by a number of religious denominations and organizations, including two supporting bodies of BJC: Fellowship Southwest and Convención Bautista Hispana de Texas. Read more from Baptist News Global. Segment 3 (starting 24:10): Attacks on faith-based service providers and two opportunities for action For more on the comments from Elon Musk, Mike Flynn and Vice President JD Vance targeting religious groups, read this article by Michelle Boorstein for The Washington Post: Attacks on Catholics, Lutherans suggest new Trump approach on religion "Defunding and demonizing the government's faith-based partners will make its job harder" is the title of the op-ed published by Religion News Service, written by Amanda alongside Aaron Dorfman from A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy and Jennifer Walker Thomas from Mormon Women for Ethical Government. TWO ACTION STEPS YOU CAN TAKE IN THIS TIME: Sign the letter calling on Congress and President Trump to provide necessary oversight to the Department of Government Efficiency, ensuring that the freedom for religious organizations to practice and honor their faith is not infringed upon by government action. It is organized by BJC, Mormon Women for Ethical Government, and A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy. Click here for the letter. Tell your member of Congress to oppose House Resolution 59, which could condemn a sermon by Bishop Mariann Budde as a "distorted message." No one has to agree with her message to oppose this resolution, which wrongly indicates that the government should decide what is acceptable in matters of religion. We have a simple form you can use to send your own message. Click here for our form. We sent information about those two opportunities for action to people in our community who receive emails. If you would like to receive them, visit BJConline.org/subscribe to sign up for our email list! Amanda and Holly discussed the U.S. v. Skrmetti case in episode 6 of season 6. Segment 4 (starting 31:39): Celebrating Black History Month Throughout Black History Month, BJC is sharing stories and insight on our Instagram and TikTok channels. Here are a few recent videos: Black history is American history Intersection of Black history and religious freedom Black artists INVITATION: You are invited to a special livestream event on Friday, February 28, which will re-launch the book African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. Click here to learn more about the book and sign up for the event! Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

In this week's show, Amanda and Holly discuss the problems with government mandates to post the Ten Commandments in classrooms, focusing on a case out of Louisiana. BJC and other Christian groups filed a brief in that case to explain why, as Christians, we oppose the Louisiana law and how the government's decision to choose a religious text to display in a public school setting not only cheapens our faith but also puts the government in a role it is not called to play. Plus, Amanda and Holly talk through President Donald Trump's first week back in the White House, sharing where they saw concerning signs for religion and religious liberty. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): President Trump's first week back and backlash to a sermon Amanda and Holly talked about ways to handle a constant influx of news and the dangers of "God saved me" rhetoric when others died in the episode after the 2024 election: S6, Ep. 04: Election Day: What happened and where do we go from here Amanda wrote a piece for Bloomberg Opinion about the backlash to Bishop Mariann Budde's sermon at the service of unity and what it teaches us about religious freedom: Trump's Response to Bishop's Sermon on Unity Is Un-American Learn more about the two new religious liberty cases to be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in this piece on our website: U.S. Supreme Court agrees to hear cases involving religious school funding, parent rights to opt out of grade school curriculum Amanda and Holly discussed the issues with religious charter schools in 2024: S5, Ep. 16: The trouble with *religious* charter schools Read more about the lawsuit filed by a group of Quaker congregations opposing raids in churches on religious freedom grounds in this article by Bernie Pazanowski for Bloomberg Law: Quakers Sue to Block Trump's Immigration Raids in Churches Segment 2 (starting at 14:21): Louisiana's mandate to post the Ten Commandments in classrooms Read the brief from BJC and other Chrisitan groups in Roake v. Brumley at this link. Learn more about the case in this post on our website: BJC urges federal appeals court to reject Louisiana law requiring public school classrooms to post the Ten Commandments Holly and Amanda discussed the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision and its abandonment of the Lemon test in this episode in 2022: S3, Ep. 21: Not solving a problem, but creating one: Dissecting the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision Holly and Amanda discussed the Ten Commandments on two episodes in 2023 when a bill was being discussed in Texas: S4, Ep. 20: The Ten Commandments S4, Ep. 21: 613 Commandments: James Talarico on his defense of church-state separation as a Christian Segment 3 (starting 29:53): Oral arguments and what's next Hear last week's oral arguments in this case at the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals at this link. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

President Jimmy Carter introduced millions of people to what it means to be a Baptist. In this episode, Amanda and Holly reflect on what he meant to our country and to both of them, as fellow Baptists, as well as his impact on faith freedom for all. They share how he is a shining example of the diversity of Baptists in our country as well as what it looks like to live out one's faith freely and fully without forcing it on others. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): A look back at the life of Jimmy Carter and his funeral service The New York Times has an extensive obituary on President Jimmy Carter, which you can read online: Jimmy Carter, Peacemaking President Amid Crises, Is Dead at 100 You can watch a recording of President Carter's funeral on the YouTube channel of the Washington National Cathedral: In Celebration of and in Thanksgiving for the Life of President James Carter – 1.9.25 Holly mentioned an article from The Washington Post titled "One chance to get this right, a look behind the prep for Carter's funeral." It is available online under the title "How do you create a funeral fit for a president? A look behind Carter's." Holly mentioned speaking with Paul Baxley, the executive coordinator of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, who attended the service. CBF is the denominational home of President Carter's church, Maranatha Baptist Church. Segment 2 (starting at 12:41): Carter as a Baptist: Commitment, divisions, and the New Baptist Covenant Amanda's piece honoring President Carter in TIME magazine is available online: Jimmy Carter's Commitment to Religious Liberty Should Guide Us All Amanda read comments from President Carter in 1979, saying he thought the government should "stay out of the prayer business." You can read the archived article on the website of The New York Times: President Is Opposed To School‐Prayer Bill Amanda was quoted during a conversation on Jimmy Carter's faith between Jason DeRose and Ailsa Chang on NPR's All Things Considered, which also included a quote from the Rev. Dr. Martin Marty in 1976: Jimmy Carter's complicated relationship to the church For more on the history of the New Baptist Covenant, read this 2022 story by Mark Wingfield for Baptist News Global: New Baptist Covenant shifts gears to convene, connect and communicate Amanda mentioned this story in The Washington Post about First Baptist Church of the City of Washington, D.C., which is the church where both she and President Carter were once members: Jimmy Carter attended this D.C. church. Now, it honors his legacy. Segment 3 (starting 24:26): Carter's legacy and example for where we are today Amanda read President Carter's comments from a 1977 press conference on the separation of church and state. You can read the transcript on the website of The New York Times: Transcript of the President's News Conference With U.S. and Polish Journalists You can see the never-before-released video of Amanda and BJC Executive Director Emeritus Brent Walker honoring Jimmy Carter at this link. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC's generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.