

School of War
The Free Press
In School of War, CBS News National Security Analyst and Free Press columnist Aaron MacLean sits down with secretaries of state, top military historians, war planners, and key political decision-makers to help understand the lessons of war.
Tune in as School of War takes you to the front lines.
Aaron MacLean is a senior fellow at Hudson Institute. He has worked as a foreign policy advisor and legislative director to Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas and spent seven years in the U.S. Marine Corps.
Visit our Substack for episode transcripts
Follow along on Instagram
Tune in as School of War takes you to the front lines.
Aaron MacLean is a senior fellow at Hudson Institute. He has worked as a foreign policy advisor and legislative director to Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas and spent seven years in the U.S. Marine Corps.
Visit our Substack for episode transcripts
Follow along on Instagram
Episodes
Mentioned books

Nov 8, 2022 • 55min
Ep 48: Ian Beckett on the Anglo-Zulu War
Ian Beckett, professor emeritus of military history at the University of Kent and author of Rorke’s Drift and Isandlwana, joins the show to talk about the two most famous battles of the Anglo-Zulu War.▪️Times • 01:58 Introduction • 02:22 British interests in Zululand • 06:52 The Zulu system • 09:55 The British plan • 13:12 The horns of the buffalo • 16:49 Isandlwana • 26:44 Innate warriors • 29:14 Aftermath • 33:18 Movies and myths • 42:11 Rorke’s Drift • 48:38 Firepower wins out • 53:56 A western way of war?

Nov 1, 2022 • 53min
Ep 47: Senator Tom Cotton on American Foreign Policy
Tom Cotton, senator from Arkansas and author of Only the Strong: Reversing the Left's Plot to Sabotage American Power, joins the show to talk about U.S. foreign policy.▪️Times • 01:03 Introduction • 03:43 Formative Interests • 06:47 Bill Rood And The Distant Ramparts • 11:13 Joining The Infantry • 13:30 Iraq & Afghanistan • 18:39 Congress • 21:19 Foreign Entanglements • 25:54 Progressivism • 32:06 Vietnam • 38:52 Iran • 44:26 Withdrawal • 47:15 American Interests And The Rimland

Oct 25, 2022 • 55min
Ep 46: James M. Scott on Curtis LeMay in World War II
James M. Scott, author of Black Snow: Curtis LeMay, the Firebombing of Tokyo and the Road to the Atomic Bomb, joins the show to talk about the World War II career of one of the most important and controversial American generals of the 20th Century, Curtis LeMay, and his leadership of the strategic bombing campaign in the Pacific. ▪️Times • 02:00 Introduction • 03:02 Teaching In Japan • 06:27 Lemay, Tireless Worker • 09:47 Bomber Vs Fighter • 11:43 Europe, B-17, and B-29 • 19:54 Hansel & O’Donnell • 30:00 LeMay Takes Over • 32:37 From Dresden To Tokyo • 35:10 On His Own Authority • 40:26 “We’ll Be Tried As War Criminals” • 43:07 Firestorm • 49:06 What Brought Peace?

Oct 18, 2022 • 55min
Ep 45: Randall Schriver on China
Randall Schriver, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Indo-Pacific affairs and Chairman of the Project 2049 Institute, joins the show to talk about U.S.-China relations and a new project, the China Economic & Strategy Initiative. Times • 02:10 Introduction• 03:36 “Take Chinese Language” • 11:21 Why 2049?• 13:40 China In The ’90s • 18:13 Power Projection and Missiles• 28:10 The Diplomatic Situation • 35:00 Economic Entanglement • 42:44 Decoupling • 47:32 Urgency And Policy • 52:00 DeterrenceCheck out the China Economic & Strategy Initiative here - https://cesionline.org

Oct 11, 2022 • 42min
Ep 44: Jay Lockenour on Erich Ludendorff
Ep 44: Jay Lockenour on Erich Ludendorff ▪️Jay Lockenour, associate professor of history at Temple University and author of Dragonslayer: The Legend of Erich Ludendorff in the Weimar Republic and Third Reich, joins the show to talk about the life of the infamous German general and politician. ▪️Times • 01:30 Introduction• 02:00 Ludendorff’s Significance• 03:08 Ludendorff’s Early Life• 05:02 Not Quite A Matinee Idol • 07:13 The German General Staff• 11:43 A General Without Portfolio• 17:50 The War And The Myth • 22:23 For The Record - The German Military Lost • 26:12 The Early 1920’s• 29:49 Erich And Adolf • 34:10 Ludendorff And The Right• 37:00 The Holocaust And Ludendorff

Sep 13, 2022 • 1h 2min
Ep 43: Eli Lake on the Bush administration in the Middle East
Eli Lake, host of The Re-Education and national security journalism fellow at the Clements Center, joins the show to talk about 9/11 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. ▪️Times • 02:04 Introduction• 02:43 From Philly To The Middle East• 05:14 9/11• 07:49 The World Before • 09:20 No More Nation Building• 12:03 Neo-Cons Or Not• 18:09 Liberal Internationalists • 22:05 Early Mistakes• 29:08 Baking In Problems • 32:46 The Bonn Conference • 37:04 Capable Of Being Free• 41:04 Toppling Sadam - Right or Wrong? • 45:47 WMDs And Insurgency• 53:25 New Strategies • 56:51 The Surge • 59:01 The Loss Of Choice

Sep 6, 2022 • 1h 7min
Ep 42: Ian Easton on Xi Jinping and the CCP’s Grand Strategy
Ian Easton, senior director at the Project 2049 Institute and author of The Final Struggle: Inside China’s Global Strategy, joins the show to talk about Xi Jinping, the ideology that shaped Jinping and by which he rules, and why his vision for the world should not be dismissed. ▪️Times • 01:56 Introduction • 02:22 Interested In China • 05:01 Discovering Taiwan • 10:32 Perceptions Of The PRC • 13:11 How The Chinese Government Works • 17:47 Who Is Xi Jinping? • 23:42 The Tactics Of Ideology And Control • 26:29 The “Scourge Of The Corrupt” • 29:36 Authentic Socialism • 31:25 Does China’s Communism Matter? • 37:04 The Blending Of Communism And Nationalism • 43:04 Exporting Xi Jinping Thought • 49:19 Absolute Control • 52:41 Does Xi Jinping Have Rivals? • 56:04 Optimisim To Pessimism In Taiwan • 01:04:00 It’s Not All Dark

Aug 30, 2022 • 56min
Ep 41: Hal Brands and Michael Beckley on China
Hal Brands, Henry Kissinger Distinguished Professor at Johns Hopkins University, and Michael Beckley, associate professor of political science at Tufts University, join the show to talk about how an armed confrontation with China could be coming more quickly than most expect. ▪️Times • 01:30 Introduction• 02:28 Danger Zone • 05:13 A Matter Of Timing• 07:55 A Thucydides Trap?• 13:07 Historical Analogies and 1914• 20:32 Getting To The Long Game• 25:37 Sleepwalking Into War?• 31:10 China’s Problems And Plans• 35:06 The “Lenin Trap”• 36:44 Why Does Taiwan Matter? • 40:27 Commitments And Capabilities • 44:37 What Will War Look Like? • 48:24 Cold War Lessons • 52:22 Getting Through The Danger Zone

Aug 9, 2022 • 56min
Ep 40: Michael S. Neiberg on Vichy France
Michael S. Neiberg, Chair of War Studies in the Department of National Security and Strategy at the U.S. Army War College, joins the show to talk American policy towards Vichy France.▪️Times • 01:21 Introduction • 02:15 Vichy France - An Overview • 06:38 A Phony War • 09:16 American Assumptions Pre-war • 13:09 Isolationism No Longer Works • 24:30 Roosevelt’s Policy • 28:45 Stress In The Anglo-American Alliance • 33:03 American Vision Of A Post-War World • 36:00 Vichy Unveiled • 39:01 Chaos In North Africa • 43:19 Vichy’s Shame • 51:57 de Gaulle

Aug 2, 2022 • 47min
Ep 39: Ocie Vest on the Marine Corps’ War in Afghanistan, Part 2 of 2
Ocie Vest, retired Marine infantry officer, joins the show to talk about his experiences as a platoon commander in the Battle of Marjah and later as a combat leader in Nimruz Province, lessons learned in training and in combat, and how the war can continue after the fighting ends. Second of a two-part conversation.▪️Times • 01:27 Violent Months• 06:15 “Do Whatever Those Guys Do”• 09:42 Tactical Adaptation• 13:32 A Fighting Exit• 18:03 “That Sucked…Why’d We Want To Do That So Bad?”• 21:29 Dispersed Operations• 26:36 Nimruz Province • 30:43 Hope For The Future• 34:39 Leadership• 36:11 Medically Retired, Twice • 38:53 The Work Works• 45:47 “Now Its Up To Them”


