Positive Disintegration

In episode 19, Chris and Emma were joined by Stephanie Tolan, an author and long-time advocate and champion of the gifted. This episode was inspired by Stef’s chapter in the book Living with Intensity called “What We May Be: What Dabrowski’s Work Can Do for Gifted Adults.” We’ve had enough feedback from listeners to know that we needed a deeper dive into the theory’s levels of development and that we needed to push back a little on the established dogma. We’re grateful for Stef’s willingness to join us for this conversation about Dąbrowski’s levels. Stef talked with us about her realization that there are more people at the highest level of development than Dąbrowski acknowledged in his writing. We talked about how her beliefs about consciousness and higher-level development have changed over the years. We discussed exemplars, reincarnation, and the limited understanding that we currently have about the levels of development and their many permutations. Resources mentioned during this episode:Stephanie S. Tolan’s websiteLiving with Intensity by Daniels & Piechowski (from Gifted Unlimited, LLC)Lives of Positive Disintegration by Michael M. Piechowski (links to ResearchGate)A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War by Joseph LocontePeace Pilgrim websitePeace Pilgrim’s works are available for download in multiple languages for free.Support the podcastIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review.Thank you for listening to Positive Disintegration. Please, feel free to share! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 18, Chris and Emma were joined by Rachel Fell, a coach, consultant, educator, and guide working with creatives, thinkers, leaders, and groups to create perspective change that achieves real-world results. The focus of this episode was on disintegration, giftedness, neurodivergence, and trauma. We discussed nervous system differences, definitions of trauma, and the importance of embracing the process. When does sensitivity become fragility? How do you learn to respect and embrace your intensities? How do you recognize your stress and sensitivity as it starts to show itself in your body? How can you rebuild neural pathways that have been laid down in your childhood? How can inner reflection help you develop empathy and, in turn, make the world a better place?Rachel talks about developing inner authority, reclaiming ‘the seat’ of your authority from the external, and bringing it back to the internal. The process of developing inner authority, and breaking down external ideas and values, mirrors Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration—breaking down external socialization, reclaiming your authenticity through inner reflection, and establishing your own hierarchy of values.Resources mentioned in this episodeRachel’s websiteRachel on InstagramSoulSpark Learning Empowerment Series 2020 (on YouTube)Five Benefits of Creativity in Positive Disintegration (Emma’s finger-painting video)Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 17, Chris and Emma were joined by Elizabeth Mika, a Polish-born psychologist and expert on the Theory of Positive Disintegration. Elizabeth shares how she first became interested in Dabrowski’s theory as a teenager in Poland, how it inspired her to go into the field of psychology, and her journey into working with the theory once she immigrated to America.Our conversation covered a wide range of topics, focused on the ‘lows and highs’ of Dabrowski’s levels, from the sub-levels of unilevel integration to the Fourth Factor and drive for self-transcendence. We talk about the dangers of narcissism and its various forms, the role of positive maladjustment, and how self-reflection and inner transformation is the first step in making the world a better place.“We need to look within before we start changing the world. The greatest gift we can give to the world is our transformed self.”This is the image we discussed with Elizabeth around minute 31 from her 2018 Dabrowski Congress slideshow. See the resource list below to download her slides. “Self-education is about personality development on the ever higher levels. Its highest goals is in the natural dimension the fullness of humanity, and in the supranatural dimension – becoming God-like. Self-education should go hand in hand with introspection, and those two activities should become one effort, lasting a lifetime, to come close to the ideal.” Resources Mentioned in this EpisodeTyranny as a Triumph of Narcissism (article on Medium)On Primary Integration, Psychopathy and the Average Person (article on LinkedIn)Sudden Dynamic Insight: Moving from Conflict to Peace (PDF)What Disintegrates? (PDF)Pathocracy and Andrzej Łobaczewski (by Dr. Steve Taylor for Psychology Today )Follow Elizabeth on Twitter*A transcript of this episode is available on our website. Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 16, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Shelagh Gallagher, for a discussion of overexcitability (OE) and openness to experience (OtE), based on her paper which compares the two frameworks. Shelagh is an independent consultant in gifted education and President of the National Association for Gifted Children. We discussed the controversy in the field of gifted education about OE and OtE, and the value both frameworks can provide in informing us about the gifted student experience in education. We talked about the impact and difference having multiple OEs can have in a person’s life, and Shelagh shared insights from her research and pointed out directions for future work in gifted populations. Resources mentioned in this episodeOpenness to Experience and Overexcitabilities in a Sample of Highly Gifted Middle School Students by Shelagh GallagherBuilding Bridges: Research on Gifted Children's Personalities from Three Psychological Theories by Shelagh Gallagher24-item Overexcitability QuestionnaireA Comparison of the Concept of Overexcitabilities with Measures of Creativity and School Achievement in Sixth-Grade Students by Shelagh GallagherCreative Personality Characteristics and Dimensions of Mental Functioning in Gifted Adolescents by Shirley SchieverShelagh’s websiteNAGC Videos from the 15th International Dabrowski Congress:Full Dabrowski Congress 2022 YouTube PlaylistShelagh’s keynote (YouTube)* A transcript of this episode is available on the Dabrowski Center website.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In Episode 15, Chris and Emma were joined by Melissa Bernstein, co-founder of Melissa & Doug Toys and author of LifeLines. We learned about Melissa’s inspirational journey to self-acceptance and living authentically after spending decades of her life suffering from existential depression and angst. Melissa discovered Dąbrowski’s theory in her late 40s and described the relief she felt from learning about overexcitabilities as a framework for understanding her lifelong intensity and sensitivities. She described reading Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning and learning the word “existential” for the first time, and feeling that it was like being hit by a lightning bolt.Melissa talked about her path, which started out traditionally with therapy and grew to include autopsychotherapy and deep exploration into philosophical and spiritual works. We discuss strategies she has developed to challenge negativity and nihilism, and combat perfectionism, such as channeling darkness into light through her creative work. We also explore how sharing our creative outputs with others can help us find meaning and purpose, and the importance of taking time out to look after ourselves.Resources mentioned in this episodeLifeLines websiteMelissa’s book LifeLines on AmazonThe LifeLines workshop videos Chris mentioned watching in spring 2021. LifeLines Community Facebook groupThe Melissa & Doug websiteListen to Melissa’s episode on The Good Life Project PodcastEmma’s blog on Self CareClick here for the playlist of videos from the 2022 Dabrowski Congress in Denver. * Transcript is available on the Dabrowski Center websiteConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 14, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Michele Kane, an educator, storyteller, and long-time Dąbrowski enthusiast. She has done wonderful work tending relationships in this community, and she shared herself with vulnerability and courage in this episode. Some of the topics touched on include the reality that learning about the theory changes your relationship with yourself, how well the theory captures differences in emotional range, and the importance of connection. We learned that feeling and being seen are critically important, and receiving mirroring is one of the blessings of discovering and participating in the Dąbrowski community. We talked about the Dabrowski Congress, which Michele has hosted twice (in 2010 and 2018, click on the year to download a PDF of the proceedings). Click here to watch videos from the 2022 Dabrowski Congress in Denver. Emma read the following poem from Dąbrowski’s 1972 book Psychoneurosis is Not an Illness: *A transcript of this episode is available on our website.Resources mentioned in this episodeThe books Dąbrowski wrote under the pseudonym Paul (and Paweł) Cienin called Existential Thoughts and Aphorisms and Fragments from the Diary of a Madman. These books can be purchased from Bill Tillier as part of a larger download package. Beyond Old Age by Annemarie RoeperSome of My Best Friends are Books by Judith Wynn HalstedEmma’s post The Beauty of Imperfect Self-CareConnect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 13, Chris and Emma were joined by Dr. Amanda Harper, an educator and Dąbrowski scholar from Tasmania, Australia. We discussed the deep and fascinating work that Amanda has done in examining Dąbrowski’s writing. The focus was on two of her published papers: one on Empathy and the Syntonic Continuum, and the other on Philosophy, Faith, and the Personality Ideal. We talk about the differences between syntony and empathy, how they look across various levels, and how Amanda mapped them in order to create a visual guide to these important dynamisms. We explore the value of defining terms, and why using Dabrowski’s own language and quotes helps us gain greater meaning from the theory of positive disintegration. Reading Dabrowski’s work can be a ‘treasure hunt’ for both academic purposes and within your own life!Amanda shared what it was like to study the theory during her master’s and doctoral programs, and compared notes with Chris who also has experience examining constructs over time in Dąbrowski’s original texts, as well as the value and experience of attending conferences and meeting up with the Dabrowski community.Resources mentioned during this episodeJasneath Education (Amanda’s website with courses available for purchase)Remember to check out Amanda’s newsletter. The papers we mentioned: Through the Dąbrowski Lens: Empathy and the Syntonic Continuum (2019)Through the Dąbrowski Lens: Philosophy, Faith, and the Personality Ideal (2017)Through the Dąbrowski Lens: A Fresh Examination of the Theory of Positive Disintegration (2017)Amanda’s new chapter can be found in the Palgrave Handbook of Transformational Giftedness for Education:Through the Dąbrowski Lens: Wisdom, Transformational Giftedness, and the Personality Ideal*A transcript of this episode is available on our website. The quotations we read during the episode:“The term syntony is used within Dąbrowski’s writings to describe a sense of balance and oneness. This refers to a state where there is no inner turmoil and no conflict but there is a deep sense of connection and unification with existence in the world” (Harper & Clifford, 2019, p. 36).“Empathy is a response based on reflection, a sense of nurturing toward other people, and an understanding of others’ circumstances (Dąbrowski, 1973)” (Harper & Clifford, 2019, p. 37).“Growth of empathy is one of the most powerful developmental dynamics and one which most clearly shows the progressive and hard won change from narrow egocentrism to an all-encompassing universal love. Empathy grows out of the strong emotions of search for the meaning of life and finding it in concern and service to others, and out of the need for self-perfection as a human being. Self-perfection is not possible in a vacuum but grows out of a sense of relatedness with others measured in terms of an “ideal other” embodied in one’s personality ideal. It grows out of conflicts with oneself which produce an increase in caring and appreciation of others, and deeper humility within oneself.” (Dąbrowski, 1996, p. 70) “Without the tragic, the challenging, the conflicting, and the confronting, an individual cannot—will not—experience the inner psychic transformation necessary for multilevel development or the emergence of a full empathic condition and cannot move toward the personality ideal. Similarly, without these challenges and anxieties, we are not equipped to understand or experience in its fullness the tapestry, elation, and fulfillment of the process of development.” (Harper & Clifford, 2019, p. 265)Here are the graphic representations that were mentioned during the episode:Amanda’s Syntonic Continuum from her 2019 paper:The Constellations of Dynamisms figure that Chris mentioned pulling up during the discussion of syntony and empathy as “continuing dynamisms”:This figure is from Dąbrowski (1996) and includes this description: Figure 1 shows that at each level of development there is a different constellation of factors. Roman numerals refer to levels, C refers to that category of factors whose operation extends over several levels of development. Dark shading indicates tension in the operation of a given factor. Tension abates toward higher levels of development. But there is one exception—personality ideal—the highest dynamism which increases in significance and power as development advances to higher levels. The spindle shapes are, meant to indicate the incipience and disappearance of a given factor. They reflect an expected frequency of responses identifiable as expression of a given factor. Thus, for instance, when the dynamisms of level III appear and gain ground, the three dynamisms of level II should disappear. (p. 32) Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 12, Chris and Emma were joined by Ellie Krug and Tamara Grady for a discussion of gender and authenticity. Ellie is the author of Getting to Ellen: A Memoir about Love, Honesty and Gender Change (2013), was a trial lawyer and has extensive experience providing training on diversity and inclusion. Tamara is an Osseo District School Board member in the suburbs of Minneapolis, and she is a proud mom of children who are a part of the LGBTQ community. This conversation centers on authenticity, and the challenges faced by people discovering and becoming their authentic selves, through the lens of two personal and touching stories. We didn’t talk explicitly about Dąbrowski’s theory in our discussion but instead focused on the lived experience of Ellie and Tamara on their journeys of personal growth and development. Through these stories, we explore acceptance, unconditional love, and compassion—not only for others, but for oneself—in the context of the struggles faced by transgender, nonbinary, and gender non-conforming people.Resources:Ellie’s websiteEllie’s book: Getting To Ellen: A Memoir about Love, Honesty and Gender ChangeEllie’s Facebook pageEllie on TwitterTamara on:TwitterInstagramLinkedIn Study dispels harmful gender dysphoria myth (“ROGD” is not a real thing)Advice on how to use gender pronouns* A transcript of this episode is available on the Dabrowski Center website.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Please share this post with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 11, Chris and Emma were joined by Tina Harlow, LCSW, a child and family therapist specializing in giftedness in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, who shared her experiences as a neurodiversity-affirming clinician. She talked about how overexcitabilities can differ among family members and the importance of understanding and honoring these differences. She also shared strategies for dealing with the different types of overexcitability. We discussed how positive disintegration can manifest in children and teens, and how Tina supports children and their families through existential depression, physical signs of stress, spiritual crises, and more. We learned about the prevalence of gender-nonconforming children among her gifted clientele, and the importance of affirming these children rather than denying their authenticity. We addressed the importance of language, and being intentional in its use, in the spirit of Dabrowski’s theory, which gives us a non-pathologizing lens to help us view differences that are often seen as deficits or disorders. Tina also shared about her work with the World Hope Project, which allows children from around the world to share their message of empathy, inclusivity, and hope.Here’s a photo from the day Chris met Tina at Linda Silverman’s house when she was picking up Michael Piechowski to bring him to the airport. (April 17, 2018) Tina interviewed Michael for her eBook that day, and you can see the video here.The eBook Tina created from these interviews with experts is called Helping Gifted Kids Thrive. Resources mentioned in this episode:Guiding Bright (Tina’s website)World Hope Project (website)World Hope Project (YouTube)SoulSpark Learning Empowerment Series (YouTube) (Tina mentioned John Wing Flower’s session specifically)Emma’s videos for living with OEsSENG (Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted)* A transcript of this episode is available on the Dabrowski Center website.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Do you know someone who would benefit from our work? Please share this post with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

In episode 9, Chris and Emma were joined by Lotte van Lith, a coach, lecturer, and author from the Netherlands. Lotte has been studying and working with Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration for more than a decade, and she brought her personal and professional expertise to this discussion of complexity and emotional development in gifted and creative people. She feels that once you view the complexity of life through the lens of emotional development, you can see the paradoxes inherent in human experience. We talked about complexity as a hallmark of giftedness and discussed how the drives for authenticity and self-actualization can be supported in this population. Resources mentioned in this episodeLotte’s websiteIntens Mens by Lotte van LithA Lot of Complexity! Lotte’s interview on Unleash Monday.* A transcript of this episode is available on the Dabrowski Center website.Connect with us!Positive Disintegration on SubstackVisit the Dabrowski Center websiteFacebookInstagramThe Positive Disintegration YouTube ChannelAdults with Overexcitabilities group on FacebookDabrowski Center and Positive Disintegration Podcast Community on FacebookThe Tragic Gift blog by EmmaEmail us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.comPlease consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.Find Positive Disintegration MerchIf you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! <3Do you know someone who would benefit from our work? Please share this post with others who would appreciate learning about Positive Disintegration. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe