Manage This - The Project Management Podcast

Manage This by Velociteach The podcast by project managers for project managers. The Ocean Cleanup organization is tackling the largest clean-up project in history. Henk van Dalen shares his passion for the project as he describes the origin of The Ocean Cleanup organization and outlines this bold project to clean the vast amounts of waste from our oceans. Table of Contents 01:55 … Understanding the Problem 03:19 … How The Ocean Cleanup Began 05:31 … Henk’s Involvement in the Project 06:48 … Ocean Garbage Patches 08:26 … Facing Setbacks 11:21 … The Highs and Lows of Lessons Learned 14:48 … Lessons from Wilson 16:39 … Not Taking it Personally 20:57 … Plastic Size and Barrier Specifics 25:44 … Quantity of Systems Needed 28:00 … Safety for Other Vessels 30:49 … What Happens to the Collected Plastic? 32:07 … Tackling the Problem at the Source 33:50 … Cleaning up the Rivers 37:00 … Leadership Lessons 40:24 … Biggest Surprise on the Project 42:38 … Learn More about The Ocean Cleanup 44:28 … Closing HENK VAN DALEN:  ...the Garbage Patch out there is so big and persistent, that’s not going to away by itself.  It’s almost looking at your house, and you say, “I have a dirty house; but if I close the doors, then, you know, it’s going to be fine.”  You still need to clean it up, as well. So for us doing that part is essential, and we believe that the power and the impact that the Ocean Cleanup can make is really in technology.  Develop technology.  Be able to move quickly to address the problem that’s there already.  But also, you know, it’s us also getting the awareness out there that people start thinking by themselves what it is.  So if the Ocean Cleanup looked at, but what are we good at and where can we make an impact, it’s creating that awareness, backing it up by science and showing how big this problem is and cleaning up the mess that is already out there. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’re glad you’ve joined us for a conversation about what matters to you in the field of project management.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and here in the studio with me is Bill Yates. BILL YATES:  Wendy, we’ve got an interesting theme that you’ve hit on.  I love this.  We’ve talked about saving the rhinos.  We’ve talked about tracking orbital space debris.  We’ve looked at community gardens and food banks; sustainability.  And man, have we got a great conversation today. WENDY GROUNDS:  I am very excited about this one.  I have been following this project for a few years now and have been trying to find someone who will talk to us.  And we were very fortunate to find Henk van Dalen.  Henk is the Director Ocean Project of The Ocean Cleanup.  This is a project that is looking to clean up the ocean. BILL YATES:  That’s it, five trillion pieces of plastic that we want to remove from the ocean.  That’s a big project. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, we’re very excited to hear Henk’s story. Understanding the Problem BILL YATES:  Henk, thank you so much for joining us today on Manage This, from your remote location. HENK VAN DALEN:  Thank you.  Thank you for having me, guys. BILL YATES:  One of the first things I want to do is just help our listeners understand the problem.  Can you define the problem for us? HENK VAN DALEN:  So within The Ocean Cleanup, we’re focusing to clean up the oceans, and that first of all means we need to close up the inflow of the oceans, taking the plastic out of the rivers, preventing it going in.  But there’s also the element of a lot of plastic being out there in the ocean itself, and that’s been accumulating there over decades.  And our focus primarily is now on the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. So that is the area of the ocean located between Hawaii and California, and there is a plastic soup, you could say, floating around which is twice the size of Texas. So that is an immense amount of plastic, and it’s not going away by itself, it’s persistent, it’s been there for years, and it will stay for decades longer if we don’t do anything about it.  And so we’re talking about, well, 1.8 trillion pieces of plastic, which in accumulated weight we believe is around 80,000 tons.  And of course, if no one cleans this up, this is going to be smashed into smaller pieces by the natural elements.  It will end up in our food chain.  It could end up on our plate.  And it really is just harming the whole environment together.  So within The Ocean Cleanup our mission is to get all that plastic out of the ocean. How The Ocean Cleanup Began WENDY GROUNDS:  Can you describe how The Ocean Cleanup began, how this project actually started? HENK VAN DALEN:  The Ocean Cleanup is – call it the child of our founder, Boyan Slat.  He was about 16 years old when he was diving in Greece, a great hobby of him.  And during that diving he saw more plastic than fish, and it really started to bother him, and he thought, you know, what can I do as an individual to address this?  So he did go to university, but quickly he thought, I want to give all my attention to address this problem, and I want to put full focus on that for my future. So he basically did that, and in 2012 he went online with a TEDx talk, the first one about promoting his feasibility study about how he could clean up the ocean.  And the idea was kind of born that plastic washes up on all these (un)inhabited islands, where no one is, but yet there’s plenty of garbage on the islands, and can we not build something that can act as a natural barrier, basically similar to an island, can capture that plastic.  So with that idea he went public, whether doing TEDx – he gained quite some attention from that.  Then in 2013 he received enough funding to start off the research and development, understand more about the problem, as well, but in parallel start thinking about the actual technology, how to address this. So, yeah, it’s now 2020, of course, so for a good seven years his team has grown, the whole project has grown by itself.  It started very much at really researching a problem, like what type of plastic is out there, how does it get there, how does it behave, how big is it, and all this research we’ve done, we’ve also publicized via our website.  But with the gaining the understanding of the problem, we could then start working on the technology to address that.  And that’s what we’ve been doing, call it more or less for the last four to five years, really, you know, doing a lot of R&D, a lot of testing.  And then for making sure that we come up with a solution to do this.  Because in the end Boyan said for himself by 2040 he wants to get all of this plastic out of the ocean.  So that’s our mission. Henk’s Involvement in the Project BILL YATES:  That’s a phenomenal goal.  That’s such a huge task.  Henk, how did you get involved in this?  How did you come to join the project? HENK VAN DALEN:  Well, myself, I have a background in meteorology and oceanography, which is great, but it mainly learned for me where to surf good waves because I’m a very fond wave surfer.  So I actually traveled the world quite a bit, doing that surfing, and I remember, I don’t know where it was, I think it was in Costa Rica, I read a slogan somewhere that it said “Don’t destroy what you came to enjoy.”  And so I've always been kind of living that motto, you know.  Of course, being a surfer, dealing with the natural elements, you have a lot of respect for Mother Earth.  But also you notice how other people do not necessarily have that. So I came back, I did start working in a marine construction environment, mainly focusing on building offshore windmill parks.  But I always thought I wanted to do more directly for the ocean.  And it was then that the Ocean Cleanup, which I was following for a while, actually professionalized quite a bit.  And they were then looking for a project manager.  So that was the unique opportunity for me to combine my passion, being surfing and then caring about the ocean, with the skill set I built up during those years in the industry, and therefore make a difference for the better, for the future. Ocean Garbage Patches BILL YATES:  That’s phenomenal, so  I didn’t realize there was that connection as a surfer and having that passion, it’s wonderful the way that worked out.  Henk, can you explain further, there’s a big nasty name for the first garbage patch that you guys are going after. Explain how many there are in the ocean, how many big accumulations of plastic there are, and then why did you guys pick the one that’s between Hawaii and California? HENK VAN DALEN:  So if you look at the world’s oceans, there’s basically five big gyres, and that’s where kind of ocean current circulates around, but you end up in a kind of calmer area in the center where a lot of debris then accumulates.  So those five gyres are basically in the North Pacific, and that one is the one we call the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.  There’s the South Pacific, the North Atlantic, the South Atlantic, and there’s the Indian Ocean.  So as I mentioned, the plastic accumulates there because after a while it kind of is released by the ocean currents, and then it starts to stack up over there. So of all these five gyres, we have investigated the most the North Pacific one because it is known that that one is the biggest, the most persistent, and therefore also the most worrying in that respect.  And also for, call it a young startup.  We’ve grown quite a bit, of course. We’re not necessarily a startup at the moment, but for us to really get a focus and tackle the problem hands-on we said for ourselves let’s grab the biggest one first, and that is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. Let’s make sure we develop technology to address that, and that should be scalable that we could also deploy this on the other gyres in the world,

VELOCITEACH Manage This The podcast by project managers for project managers. Dana Brownlee shares tools for managing up that challenging boss or stakeholder, while creating alignment and clear communication. Table of Contents 00:58 … Meet Dana 02:18 … The Inspiration for The Unwritten Rules of Managing Up 03:54 … Managing Up Research Study 07:02 … It Begins with Self Awareness 08:20 … A Definition of Managing Up 10:05 … Managing Up Mistakes 11:30 … Six Difficult Boss Personality Types 14:32 … A Closer Look at the Clueless Chameleon 19:03 … A Closer Look at the Meddlesome Micromanager 22:40 … A Closer Look at the Tornado 25:22 … The Compliment, Document, and Pivot 27:37 … More Taming of the Tornado 29:32 … Self-Analysis for the Project Manager 31:28 … Get in Touch with Dana 32:24 … Closing WENDY GROUNDS:  Hello, and welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds and with me in the studio is Bill Yates.  Bill, I have a question for you today.  How often have you experienced a difficult stakeholder or a difficult boss?  What’s your experience? BILL YATES:  Oh, man.  This is such a loaded question.  You’re going to get me in trouble.  Andy... WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah, we don’t have to talk any current. BILL YATES:  Okay, good, yeah.  I was going to say, Andy Crowe’s not in the room right now, but he will definitely listen to this.  So, got an outstanding manager now.  But yeah, I mean, this is just a part of life; right?  We have managers who – sometimes our boss, our manager is super supportive and great.  Other times there are challenges, and so fortunately we have Dana to talk with us about some of those challenges. Meet Dana WENDY GROUNDS: So our guest today is Dana Brownlee, she is a PMP, and she founded Professionalism Matters, which is an Atlanta-based corporate training company.  Her business expertise has been featured in Forbes.com, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, to name a few.  And Dana likes to give project managers tools they can use.  Dana, welcome to Manage This. DANA BROWNLEE:  Thanks so much for having me. WENDY GROUNDS:  Dana, won’t you first tell us just a bit about yourself and how you entered the project management field? DANA BROWNLEE:  Certainly.  Well, I started my company back in 2003.  I’m dating myself a little bit, can’t believe it’s been that long.  But I started in project management I guess in the early ‘90s.  And in fact I remember it was so long ago, I remember applying for my PMP in handwritten paper. BILL YATES:  Oh, okay. WENDY GROUNDS:  Wow. DANA BROWNLEE:  Like printing it off and writing it out and actually mailing it in, putting a stamp in, so I’m officially old.  But I worked in corporate for a number of years, and then I started my own training company, and I went out, and I teach training classes and give speaking events.  But I do think that I’ve always been wired kind of as a project manager, I dot my I’s; I cross my T’s. In fact, my husband laughed.  He said, you know, “This is definitely for you.  You’ve got a knack for telling other people what to do.”  So some of it is kind of in my blood.  But I love it. The Inspiration for The Unwritten Rules of Managing Up WENDY GROUNDS:  Dana has written an excellent book that Bill and I have both enjoyed reading.  It’s called “The Unwritten Rules of Managing Up:  Project Management Techniques from the Trenches.”  And in this book we read about different types of bosses and techniques that you can implement when working with these different types of managers.  Dana, what inspired you to write the book? DANA BROWNLEE:  Actually, my audiences inspired me to write the book.  I never intended to speak on this topic, to write on this topic, but let me tell you what started happening.  I give talks, and I provide training on a wide range of topics.  So I might be out speaking about communication skills, about how to run more effective meetings, how to deal with a difficult person in the meeting. And what was happening was invariably, irrespective of the topic, when I would get to that Q&A section at the end, where I would open it up to the audience to ask questions, one of the first questions I would always get is, yeah, I love that tip, but what if the problem person is your boss?  Or what if it’s the executive that’s pushing back or causing you problems?  So I started seeing a lot of energy around this, a lot of interest and curiosity. So back in 2010 I wrote a whitepaper that I sent to PMI, the Project Management Institute, called “The Project Manager’s Guide to Dealing with a Difficult Sponsor.”  And then from there I just started developing more collateral and speaking more on the topic.  But really the genesis was the audiences, they really were struggling with this.  It was a hot topic, and so that’s how I got into this arena. Managing Up Research Study BILL YATES:  Could you tell us more about that research that that led to? DANA BROWNLEE:  Yes.  So I was giving a talk in Chicago, at a PMI event in Chicago, I think it was 2016.  And actually a publisher reached out to me, once they saw the speaker lineup, and they said, “Yeah, we’re kind of curious about this topic.  We want to come sit in on your talk.”  And it was standing room only, and I promise you, it wasn’t because of me, it was because of the topic, because people were really interested in that. And so from there they asked me to write a book.  They said, “Hey, we think there’s a book here.  We think there’s a lot of urgency around this topic, a lot of interest around this topic.” So they asked me to write the book, and of course I said yes, I was really interested in writing the book.  But I said, you know, I don’t want this book to just be informed by my personal experience.  I want to hear from other people, and so I said, “I’m going to send out a survey.”  Now, as soon as I said that I got nervous because I’m like, who’s going to respond to the survey?  I didn’t have – I’m not Beyoncé, I mean, I didn’t have like a bazillion followers, and of course everybody hates surveys, I hate surveys.  Nobody responds to surveys, but I could not believe it, I sent out this survey, and within about three weeks I had 1,173 responses, unique responses. BILL YATES:  Wow, that’s outstanding.  And you got really  good response, I mean, reading through the book, some of the quotes that you pulled out of those surveys are just hilarious, and they’re so brutally honest with you.  DANA BROWNLEE:  They make you laugh and cry at the same time. BILL YATES:  Yeah, yeah. DANA BROWNLEE:  I mean, some of them really almost brought me to tears.  Some of them were hilarious, with the little names they gave for their crazy bosses or crazy stakeholders.  So, yeah, it was great, I felt like it was kind of cathartic for a lot of people.  And so maybe that’s why they didn’t mind it quite as much.  But they got really granular, they told me their horror stories.  I remember one person told me she went out on disability, she was so stressed out in her situation, and she wasn’t unique, but I was really, really grateful to get great feedback. BILL YATES:  And then if you summarize – and I know you’ve got some great graphics that you share in your presentations and in the book.  Summarize some of those findings. DANA BROWNLEE:  When we use the term “boss,” we’re using that pretty liberally, we don’t necessarily mean it has to be the person you’re reporting to.  As project managers, a lot of our struggle is we have too many bosses. BILL YATES:  Right. DANA BROWNLEE:  That we’ve got all these stakeholders – maybe it’s a senior executive, maybe it’s a client, so maybe it’s even a difficult vendor that’s important – that you’re trying to maintain a strong relationship with.  But at any rate, going back to your question, one of the stats that I use sometimes at the beginning of my speaking events is I ask them this.  I say, okay.  I surveyed 1,172 respondents.  How many of those do you feel said they’ve never had a difficult boss experience?  And then I wait, and out of that number, almost 1,200, only two, only two people said that they have never had that experience.  So it’s common, you know, we need to not think of it as a negative thing, or feel embarrassed about it.  I promise you, if you live long enough, you will have a difficult boss experience.  It’s just part of working. It Begins with Self Awareness WENDY GROUNDS:  I was telling Bill yesterday that many years ago I worked in a hospital.  And we had a professor in charge of radiology where I worked who, when he had a bad day, he would wear something yellow.  And we knew when he was walking into the department, if he had a yellow tie or a yellow shirt, keep away from him.  It’s not going to be pretty. DANA BROWNLEE:  Well, that’s great self-awareness because awareness is the first step, so I actually like that. WENDY GROUNDS:  Absolutely.  But they don’t do that, bosses don’t go around with a color code and say, you know, I’m wearing turquoise today, so I’m in a good mood. DANA BROWNLEE:  Well, you know, we say that, and we’re laughing.  But actually in the book I have a little bit of a checklist because the beginning of turning it around is just identifying these characteristics within ourselves because I think we all have them in one way or another.  In fact, my husband was telling me, you know, “Yeah, you’re great, so you’re the perfect person because you’re the Micromanager and the Tornado, like all rolled up into one.”  But it’s not a negative thing, I think that we all have a little bit of some of these tendencies. And acknowledging that in yourself, being able to kind of pull yourself back and say, well, wait a minute, so maybe I am micromanaging a little bit. I need to pull back, so awareness really, really is the first step.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. The unpredictable nature of a crisis means that leaders have little time to prepare. Our guest Matt Harper, a retired 20 year Naval Officer, talks about crisis leadership lessons he learned onboard the USS Cole during a terrorist attack. Table of Contents 00:37 … Meet Matt 01:38 … Matt’s Role on the USS Cole 03:55 … Background to the USS Cole Deployment 06:32 … Geographical Location of Yemen 07:58 … October 12th, 2000 10:02 … Reacting in Times of Crisis 12:24 … Events Following the Attack 14:36 … Responding Well or Responding Poorly in a Crisis 16:34 … Management vs. Leadership 20:15 … Crisis Leadership Lesson One: Understand Yourself 21:05 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Two: Be Comfortable with Uncertainty 22:40 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Three: Collaborate 24:01 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Four: Be Ready to do Anything 26:35 … Crisis Leadership Lesson Five: Lessons Learned 27:35 … Keeping Motivated in a Crisis 29:42 … Get up on the Balcony, Take a Different Perspective 33:11 … Go Beyond Your Comfort Zone 34:41 … Resolving the Problem 37:20 … Get in Touch with Matt 38:52 … Closing MATT HARPER: ...this is the hallmark of the good leader, of the good project manager that says, got it, that’s the way it’s supposed to be done, but we’re in a crisis deadline or whatever the case may be.  And this is how we need to do it now. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I am Wendy Grounds, and with me is Bill Yates. BILL YATES:  Hi.  Hi, Wendy. WENDY GROUNDS:  Hi, Bill.    Today we’re talking about what will we do in a time of crisis.  We have Matt Harper with us.  He is on Skype from Denver, Colorado. Meet Matt BILL YATES:  Yeah, Matt has had a twenty year career with the US Navy and we’ll get more into that. Specifically though, he had a unique experience and I’m looking forward to discussing with him and sharing with our audience. WENDY GROUNDS:  Matt is going to tell us about his experience on the USS Cole after a terrorist attack in Aden, Yemen, which happened in October 2000. He was decorated for his leadership after this attack and he’s applied that to coaching lessons in crisis leadership, and so I think he’s got a lot of good stuff he’s going to bring to us today. BILL YATES:  Yeah, Matt, we so appreciate your time.  Welcome to Manage This. MATT HARPER:  Well, thanks.  Thanks for having me.  Looking forward to it. BILL YATES:  Any time we can bring somebody into a conversation that has the knowledge, the training, and the experience that you do, we know our project manager listeners are going to appreciate it and learn from it.  Wendy and I were talking, we feel like the best way to tackle this topic is just start from the beginning.  Give us a sense for what happened with the USS Cole and what your role was, or what part you played in that. Matt’s Role on the USS Cole MATT HARPER:  Sure.  Well, thanks, thanks again for having me.  I would like to kind of start out, having a 20-year military background, I’m sure a lot of the people listening to the podcast will have military backgrounds. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  But for most people who do not, I would like to say that anybody who spends time in the military, what we do on a daily basis is really project management. BILL YATES: That’s true. MATT HARPER:  It’s something that we I think don’t do a very good job, we people in the military or prior military personnel, we don’t do a very good job really making it clear that that’s really what we do, probably 90 percent of our day, is really different types of projects that all interrelate to each other.  They’re all underfunded; they’re all under-resourced. BILL YATES:  Yes. MATT HARPER:  And that’s what we do on a daily basis.  So about my experience, I originally grew up in San Francisco.  I always knew I kind of wanted to be in the Navy, so I went to ROTC up in New England at Boston University.  So I commissioned as an ensign in the U.S. Navy in 1996.  I commissioned as a ship guy, so it meant I spent most of my time on ships.  So again, kind of the military big organization that people may or may not be familiar about:  if you say you’re “in the Navy,” that’s kind of like saying you work at GE. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  You could be, you could be a line worker who’s doing the same job over and over again, or you could be the CEO, and so there’s a whole range in between.  So my time at the Navy I spent most of that time on ships.  And then when I wasn’t on a ship, I was at a staff or at a desk job in a cubicle kind of doing paperwork, for lack of a better word.  So I joined the Navy in 1996; and then in 2000 I was on my second ship, USS Cole.  So I was a young lieutenant at the time.  So a “young lieutenant” being I had about five years in the Navy in October of 2000. And so at the time I was the Assistant Operations Officer. As a young lieutenant I had a more senior lieutenant who was my immediate superior, and then it was the captain, and then the XO of the ship.  So I was kind of senior middle management, how’s that, for my time on that ship. Background to the USS Cole Deployment So we had been on deployment, so that meant we notionally had left Norfolk, Virginia for a six-month deployment.  So we left at the end of the summer of 2000.  We spent the first half of our deployment in the Mediterranean.  So back in 2000, after the civil war or the breakup of Yugoslavia, the U.S. military was helping NATO in resolving the separate conflicts in the former Yugoslavia.  At that time the semiautonomous independent country of Kosovo was having their conflict, and so NATO was providing a no-fly zone.  So just kind of background for what we were doing, what I was doing on the ship. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  And so the ship, the USS Cole, basically we were tracking every aircraft that flew over Kosovo and were enforcing a no-fly zone.  So as a young lieutenant I was sending out messages, and I was tracking all the airplanes that flew over Kosovo in the Mediterranean. And so we left there in October, and we did a high-speed – for us, which was 28 knots, which is about 35 miles per hour.  So for a ship that is fast.  We did a high-speed run to go from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf, to the Arabian Gulf.  And the reason I say we did a “high-speed run” is because the type of ship we were at had gas turbine engines, which is basically a jet engine that they put on a ship.  And when we go really fast, we use up fuel, we use up fuel quite a bit. So what would happen normally is ships would go through the Suez Canal.  So this is prior to 9/11.  So this was relatively routine.  So we would pull into the port of Yemen, and then we would refuel.  Nobody would leave the ship.  We would just get more fuel, and then we would shoot off back and head into the Arabian Gulf.  So again, at the time, we were probably the 12th ship to pull into Aden, Yemen. Now, in 2020, no ship ever would pull into Aden, Yemen because Aden, Yemen is really a war zone, and it has been a war zone for quite a while.  Back in 2000 it was deemed peaceful enough for us to go into.  So we pulled into Aden, Yemen on the morning of October 12th.  In my job as the Assistant Operations Officer, I had actually sent out the messages requesting fuel, so when I put out one of those messages, that unclassified the port visit.  So what that means is that basically you could fairly easily find out we were pulling into Aden, Yemen, and again, that was a routine thing that we did.  Yes. Geographical Position of Yemen BILL YATES:  For those who are geographically challenged and maybe not have a map in front of them, so you’re just a bit south of Saudi Arabia. MATT HARPER:  Correct, yeah. BILL YATES:  So you’re below Saudi, you’re a bit to the west of Africa, the continent. MATT HARPER:  Yes, yes. BILL YATES:  So give everybody, kind of draw an audio picture. MATT HARPER:  Sure.  So if you start in the eastern end of the Mediterranean, so the eastern end of the Mediterranean of course is Israel, and then south of Israel eventually is Egypt. Then there’s the Suez Canal.  So really on the eastern edge of the Mediterranean, the Suez Canal, and that will go into the Red Sea, which is going to be on the western side of Saudi Arabia.  So you are correct, you go down through the Suez Canal, you go through the Red Sea.  At the bottom of the Arabian Peninsula is Yemen, and then across from the Red Sea is the Horn of Africa, which is Kenya, Djibouti, Somalia.  So that’s a significant kind of hotspot for the world and one of the choke points that the Navy likes to make sure that we understand what’s going on, that choke point going through the Red Sea and of course up to the Suez Canal.  So if you keep going around the Arabian Peninsula, you go up along the coast of Yemen, you’ll go up around the UAE and Oman into the Arabian Gulf. October 12th 2000 BILL YATES:  So from a project standpoint, you’re in a remote location, way away from headquarters and base and supplies, you’re having to go to an area to get restocked.  In this case you need fuel, and so that sets the stage for the events you’re going to describe. MATT HARPER:  Yeah.  That’s exactly it.  We are, at that time, again in 2000, we are in a pretty austere and remote location; correct.  And that will lead us to be, after attack – I’ll jump ahead very slightly.  After attack we will remain in Yemen for about two, two and a half weeks because it takes so long to come and basically get us. BILL YATES:  Right. MATT HARPER:  Yeah.  So it’s the morning of October 12th, and again, very routine stop, we’ve done this before.  Every Navy ship does this in some capacity.  So we pulled up to a refueling pier.

“Why are we throwing away perfectly good stuff?” That’s the question our guests John DuCongé and Shan Arora are asking us this episode as we join them for a tour of the Georgia Institute of Technology’s recently completed Kendeda Building for Innovative Sustainable Design. This building was designed and built to the Living Building Challenge 3.1 certification standards, the most advanced measure of sustainability possible in the current built environment, with some of the most stringent building performance standards in the world.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. We’re facing new challenges that are changing the way that we work. Listen in as we address the specific challenge of working remotely. Table of Contents 00:43 … Coronavirus Impact – Keep Calm and Manage This 02:23 … Working Remotely and Managing Yourself 03:57 … Establishing a Rhythm 07:40 … Dealing With Interruptions at Home 11:45 … Sticking to a Schedule when Working Remotely 15:53 … Interruptions and Communication Methods with your Team 16:51 … Turning on Video Cameras 19:33 … Making Time to be Proactive 21:27 … Turning it Off at the End of the Day 25:39 … Experiment with Collaboration Tools 27:58 … Can I trust my Team to be Accountable? 31:57 … Facing New Challenges with Grace 34:35 … Connect with Crystal 35:20 … Closing CRYSTAL KDAKIA:  It’s already a tough time.  So really using this as a time to bond together.  Times of crisis are great to emphasize a positive company culture.  So, and I think that goes both ways.  Both frontline employees, team managers, and team leaders need to have a lot of grace in all those categories because everyone is adjusting to a new normal. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates. BILL YATES:  Hi, Wendy. WENDY GROUNDS:  Every two weeks we get together to talk about what matters to you as a professional project manager, and this week there’s a lot that we want to talk about. Coronavirus Impact – Keep Calm and Manage This BILL YATES:  Yeah, these are very unusual times, not like anything that I’ve ever experienced in my lifetime.  The COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic has hit, and it’s affected everyone on Planet Earth.  It’s changing the way that we work.  And we thought, what a great time for us to address the challenge that is new to us as project leaders.  We wanted to talk about specifically how to work remotely. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes.  I’m sure a lot of people are worried and anxious.  Someone wise I heard saying this on Sunday is we can’t allow uncertainty to dictate how we are going to react.  You know, we can’t change what we can’t control.  But there are things we can control, and that’s what our guest is going to speak about today. BILL YATES:  Yeah, that’s great.  I think it goes right along with our tagline of “Keep Calm and Manage This.” WENDY GROUNDS:  Absolutely. BILL YATES:  We’ve got a lot of challenges to keep calm, so we’re all wondering how do we manage this. Fortunately, we have a past guest of our podcast, Crystal Kadakia, who’s going to join us today.  She’s had a lot of experience working remotely, she’s also written a lot about the ups and downs of working remotely, some of the challenges and some of the benefits of it.  And she is all about creating a better workspace.  So we are delighted to have Crystal join us today.  Crystal, thank you so much for joining us. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Thanks for having me.  Thanks for – it’s nice to be back. BILL YATES:  Well, it’s a spur of the moment thing, but the times call for it. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  I think that it’s very timely, and also just something that I’ve been really wanting to share more and more about.  So I’m really glad that we’re getting a chance to talk about it. Working Remotely and Managing Yourself WENDY GROUNDS:  Crystal, you wrote a blog which recently we’ve published on the website:  “Does Coronavirus Have a Silver Lining?  A Guide for the Newly Remote Manager.”  And we’ve kind of highlighted some things in this blog that we want to talk about, can we start off with managing ourselves, what it looks like when you’re working remotely and how to manage yourself? CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Yeah, sure.  So the first thing about all this is you have to take care of yourself first, if you’re managing a team remotely, and you don’t have your own work environment together, your own rhythms and rituals at home ready, you’re not going to be able to manage the team.  So you’ve got to focus on yourself first.  And a lot of people don’t necessarily know this about me, but I’ve been working remotely for 10 years.  It first started because I was having health issues, and those really drove me to try out a different lifestyle. At first, yeah, remote working is hard.  But over time I started realizing I can’t go back.  I really can’t go back.  And it’s because remote working gives you the opportunity to have more control over your work environment, over your interactions with people.  So it doesn’t necessarily mean no people, even though right now we’re talking about social distancing, like we’re never going to see people again, it’s not really social distancing.  To me it’s more of a physical distance, and so you’ve just got to do things a little bit differently. Establishing a Rhythm BILL YATES:  Crystal, it’s great to have the perspective of someone who’s been doing this for quite a long time. So for many, we’re facing this for the first time, everybody likes rhythm, right? They like the cadence of getting up in the morning, fixing your coffee, or maybe you stop somewhere to get coffee on the way to work.  You come in, you kind of, you know, you do the rounds, you talk with people, and then you settle into your workspace, and you start doing your thing.  You know, so there’s kind of a rhythm to life in the office.  How difficult was it for you to establish a similar rhythm when you were working from home? CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Yeah, it definitely took some rounds of iteration, you know, I think I’ve also changed it over time.  At first I tried one of those really rigid kinds of things, you know, that you get, like, everyone has these clickbait journals now on Instagram and Facebook that’s like, you know, “30 Days to Better Habits,” and every single part of your day is super structured. BILL YATES:  Right. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  And so you wake up, you do a reflection, you do your yoga and meditation, you eat your breakfast, you say hi to the kids, you sit down, and you’re ready to go; right?  And it’s very, very rigid.  And I realized that that was me trying to force my corporate work environment into a home work environment, which is a lot more inherently flexible because it’s your home; right?  So you do have your family around, you do have your own things that you love about your home that make it really easy for you to stay in bed or to go make a great snack.  You can go check on people that you love. And so I realized, for me at least, my rhythms and rituals needed to be much more fluid, and I found energy management to be a much more valuable concept. So for those of you who are freshly remote, I really recommend just taking a few minutes to just see where’s your energy at? What’s your work asking you in terms of core work hours?  Definitely respect those, but around those, what else do you really need to focus?  What do you need to get in touch with people?  What kind of environment do you need? And what kind of family agreements do you need to set up? One of the ones for us that was really hard – because my husband also works from home, we both have our own businesses – is you would love to just check in on each other throughout the day.  I mean, you know, if I’m getting bored working on something, so I would get up and go say hi to him.  Well, he might be deep in something at that point; right? BILL YATES:  Right. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  And so, you know, that’s not helpful.  So we’ve really started realizing over time that, hey, maybe you need to look at the person’s face and see what they’re doing and see how intently they’re focusing on something before you give them a hug or a kiss, or check in and say hello.  And I’m sorry, we’re kind of newly married, so I don’t know, that might not – but, you know, we got married last year.  And so anyway, that’s a little bit TMI.  But, you know, if you’re at home, everything’s TMI, you know, what are you going to do about it? So I would just recommend spending some time thinking about your energy and creating some family agreements respecting your team’s norms, and then sharing what you’ve come up with to the rest of your team.  For some of you it might still be very structured.  For others you might find you might start shifting your waking hour because you don’t have a commute, you don’t have to get completely dressed up.  And you know what, that extra 30 minutes of sleep, you might find out that that’s a huge benefit to your productivity overall. Dealing with Interruptions at Home BILL YATES:  You’ve said so many things that I want to dig into.  Wendy, I know one thing, when you were setting up the room that we’re in that we do our podcast in, you wired a light so we could let the outside office know when we’re recording.  You know, so, hey, try to keep things down, no wrestling in the hall right now, you know, or no ping pong, we’re trying to record something here. And so I think what a practical thing for us to do from a home office, too, just to give that signal to other people that live with us to know, hey, I’m on a call now. So I’ll put this piece of paper up, or I’ll, you know, if I close the door, that means I’m on a phone call, or I shouldn’t be interrupted.  But I’ll remember to crack the door open or change the sign to let you know when I’m available for interruptions, you know, when I’m more interruptible. CRYSTAL KADAKIA:  Yeah, this might sound really silly, but one thing that we do is we have a shared Google Calendar, and I can see his meetings, and he can see mine. Especially because we do things like this, like web conferencing with people, and again, I know more of you are doing that now, as well.  And, you know, you don’t necessarily want your significant other or your kids walking around in the background, so that can often help is just having like a shared calendaring system.

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Hear advice on how to achieve constructive crucial conversations, and how to ‘rethink’ a story that is driving a negative emotion. CARRIE WOODS: People don’t care what you know until they know that you care.  And when they know that you care, they will start responding.  And they will feel safe enough to show you their true meaning. Table of Contents 00:58 … Meet Carrie 02:15 … Getting into Crucial Conversations 04:14 … Crucial Conversation Definition 05:32 … Warning Signs of a Crucial Conversation 07:00 … Verbal and Non-Verbal Communication 08:32 … Achieving a Constructive Crucial Conversation 10:30 … Facts and Stories 15:00 … Using the Right Strategy in a Crucial Conversation 20:58 … Getting to the Root and Performing “CPR” 25:23 … Accountability and Changing Behavior 27:42 … Softening the blow in a Crucial Conversation 32:11 … Creating Safe Environments 33:02 … Moving from Conversation to Results 35:32 … Get in Touch with Carrie 36:50 … Closing WENDY GROUNDS:  Hello I am Wendy Grounds and welcome to the Manage This podcast, this is the show by project managers for project managers! And so with me in the studio is a familiar voice, Bill Yates.... BILL YATES:  Hi, Wendy.  Good to be here. So you may notice that Nick Walker is not in the room, he was here for the first 100 episodes.  And Nick was actually, he acquired so much knowledge as a project manager, he’s taken a new gig as a project – just kidding.  He has retired, and he has moved closer to family so he can be with his grandkids, and he and his wife can spoil them. WENDY GROUNDS:  I think he actually mentioned he was project managing a wedding coming up. BILL YATES:  That’s true. WENDY GROUNDS:  So, yeah, he’s using those skills. BILL YATES:  Yes, that’s absolutely true. Meet Carrie WENDY GROUNDS:  You know Bill, we’ve all had those difficult conversations, those conversations where the stakes are high and everyone has a different opinion and then emotions get involved. Well, on this episode, we’re talking about just those conversations. Crucial ones and our guest Carrie Woods is going to describe to us how facts and stories drive our emotions and also how we can move from those crucial conversations to getting results.  Carrie is an author, speaker, master trainer, and executive coach as well as a Certified Platinum Level VitalSmarts Trainer in Crucial Conversations.  Carrie, welcome to Manage This, we’re so glad you could join us today. CARRIE WOODS:  Thank you.  Thank you so much.  It is absolutely fantastic to be here today. WENDY GROUNDS:  Well, we’re happy to have you. So could you just tell us, what brought you into this line of work, and what makes you passionate about it? CARRIE WOODS:  Absolutely, so about 14 years ago I transitioned from the corporate world into being a full-time writer, of all things. And with that, as my client base grew, I moved into instructional design, and from instructional design moved into facilitating the content that I was developing for various organizations, and so today we work with companies like Amazon, Volkswagen, Lincoln Electric, helping develop leaders at all levels to be more effective. Getting into Crucial Conversations BILL YATES:  Well, so one of the things we’re excited about is this whole topic of Crucial Conversations, and it comes from a book, a very popular book, something that a lot of life coaches and others put to work.  And I’m excited about seeing how we can relate this to the world of project managers.  How did you first get into this Crucial Conversations?  Did you read the book?  Did somebody recommend it?  Or how did you become a master trainer with this? CARRIE WOODS:  Oh, my goodness, so several years ago, actually, the book was recommended to me, and as I shared – so we work with all kinds of companies. And what we found, especially with  my background as a writer, is communication and effective communication is the foundation of any leadership skill. So it doesn’t matter what topic I have on the screen – conflict resolution, driving change, employee engagement, we can go through all the buzzwords.  If you are not communicating well, then you are not being understood, and you cannot drive any of those behaviors towards the results and the outcomes that people need. So I was always looking for how do people communicate well because it’s something that some people do inherently, it’s just a skill that they have.  And those are the people that we look at, and we go, man, they can just get things done.  What is different about them that they’re just successful while I’m sitting here stuck? And so it comes down to they communicate well. So with that, the next step, being a trainer, and being somebody who designs learning content, you go, okay, how do I make that a transferable skill?  In my quest to identify that, somebody recommended the book “Crucial Conversations,” and so I read it, and I said, this is it.  I don’t have to figure this out because they’ve done it.  Why reinvent the wheel?  Because they have created an approach that is so transferable, so easy to apply, and so effective that it truly does change people’s lives in an amazing way. Crucial Conversation Definition BILL YATES:  So define, what is a “crucial conversation”? CARRIE WOODS:  Absolutely.  Crucial conversations are those moments – so I tell my clients it’s where you find yourselves at a crossroads where you and I are having a discussion, and the stakes are high. Okay?  The outcome really does matter, we don’t agree on what that outcome should be, and now emotions are also running hot. So when you find yourself in the middle of that triangle of high stakes, very emotional, and outcomes matter, that is the reality of a crucial conversation. And I can explain that all day long, and so you can kind of look at it in retrospect and go, oh, yeah, I know what you were talking about. BILL YATES:  That was one. CARRIE WOODS:  That was one.  In the moment how you tend to recognize it is your body’s fight-or-flight response kicks in, and you might not realize what’s happening, but you can feel it. Those butterflies start in your stomach, or maybe your neck starts to get hot, your voice starts to quiver a little bit, and so you go, “Oh, something’s changed.  Something’s changed.”  And that’s your warning sign that this conversation has just turned crucial. BILL YATES:  So those are some of the indicators about, okay, these are like signs that a crucial conversation is popping up. CARRIE WOODS:  Absolutely. Warning Signs of a Crucial Conversation BILL YATES:  Sometimes I think project managers know they’re going into a crucial conversation because, oh, my goodness, I have to meet with the sponsor and ask for a 10 percent budget increase. Or I’ve got to meet with a customer and tell him that the big nasty risk actually occurred, so now I’ve got to deal with it. We need some extra money, some extra time, you know, something bad, bad quality issue.  Then there are other times, I think, where we’re kind of caught off guard by it.  So tell us, what are some of these warning signs that you can go into? CARRIE WOODS:  So when your body senses a threat, you automatically go into the physiological fight-or-flight response, and what happens with that is in that moment your brain floods your synaptic cleft with everything you’ve got.  It’s like hitting the overdrive turbo boost on a car and just all your adrenalin, all your hormones, everything.  So the reaction to that is that all of these physiological changes happen, your hands start to shake, your voice starts to shake, butterflies in your stomach, your neck can get hot.  These will vary from person to person. BILL YATES:  I sweat.  I tend to sweat a lot. CARRIE WOODS:  You get that sweaty response? BILL YATES:  Like I am full-on working out at the Y.  I mean, I am, like... CARRIE WOODS:  Yes.  And so when I describe this, everybody, they relate because they know what theirs are, even though it might not match with everybody else in the room.  And when you feel that, you start to go, oh, okay, I need to pay more attention here because – and so it comes down to verbal/nonverbal communication, which we could do a whole ‘nother podcast on.  Verbal and Non-Verbal Communication But let me ask you guys a quick question.  If I had to ask what percentage of the communication that you put out in the world on a daily basis do you believe is verbal, so how much of what you say comes out of your mouth? WENDY GROUNDS:  I would say maybe about 40 percent.  BILL YATES:  And so I know the stats on, yeah, I think I know where you’re going with the nonverbal, and it’s way higher than you would expect, share those.  What are those facts? CARRIE WOODS:  Way higher, so the research shows us that it’s approximately 7 percent. BILL YATES:  Is verbal. CARRIE WOODS:  Is verbal.  So only 7 percent of our communication is verbal, everything else is nonverbal.  It’s your inflection, your expression, your hand gestures, how you fix your hair, how you dress, how you stand, so all of these things.  And you can actually see the impact of this.  Have you ever sent a text or an email to somebody, and all of a sudden they’re mad, and you have no idea why? BILL YATES:  Yeah. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes. CARRIE WOODS:  Okay, so this is why your iPhone now has 2,000 emojis, because they’re desperately trying to put nonverbal cues back into verbal communication.  Have a good day, smile smile smile smile smile smile.  Really?  Please don’t be mad.  Not, you know, good luck with that.  So when we go back to the idea of a crucial conversation, that physiological response, we pick up on those nonverbal cues automatically, and we start to react to them even though we’re not necessarily aware of them yet.

The Podcast for Project Managers by Project Managers. As we celebrate 100 episodes we thank our listeners who have joined us for the journey. In this podcast Nick expands on some lessons he has learned about project management from his time on Velociteach’s Manage This. Table of Contents 00:06 … Celebrating 100 Episodes 03:29 … Nick’s New Adventure 07:00 … Reviewing Past Conversations 08:33 … Conducting Effective Meetings 10:13 … Virtual Team Communication 14:38 … Being Transparent and Maximizing Potential 17:59 … The Essential Components 19:27 … Importance of Integrity 22:45 … Building Blocks of a Project 24:24 … Dealing with Stress 25:34 … Cybersecurity: Creating Awareness 28:44 … Story from a Vietnam Veteran 31:55 … Learning Superior Processes 35:12 … Stimulate Progress and Maintain Excellence 39:00 … Great Leaders Bring Calm to Chaos 43:14 … Nick Signing Off Celebrating 100 Episodes NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We are so proud and so excited to mark our 100th episode.  Everybody’s here to celebrate:  Andy Crowe and Bill Yates, producer Wendy Grounds, engineer Andie Leeds.  And we’re so glad you have joined us for the celebration, too, but also for joining us and supporting us in our Manage This journey over the past several years. Andy, I’m going to ask you, go back in time, tell us the story behind the podcast.  What was your vision for the podcast then, and has that changed over the years? ANDY CROWE:  Well, Nick, that’s an interesting question.  You know, if you go back in time, I used to be on the project management speaking circuit quite a lot. And so one of the things that always happened is people would come up and say, “I’ve been listening to these CDs”  we used to produce CDs, now they’re digital downloads.  But Bill Yates and Louis Alderman and I were on there, and people would come up and say, you know what, “I’ve been driving around in the car, I’ve been listening to that.”  One person said that when their child misbehaved in the car, that they would actually make them listen to 30 minutes of that. NICK WALKER:  Oh, cruel and unusual punishment. ANDY CROWE:  It was a really funny interchange. BILL YATES:  I’ll get feedback on that one. ANDY CROWE:  One of the things that I figured out during that series of conversations, though, is people would always come up afterward. And so they didn’t want to talk about what I had spoken on that evening at the project management meeting, they wanted to talk about the audio series that we did. And I told Bill, I said, you know, there’s a few things.  Number one, project management is a really difficult job for a lot of people because you’re effecting change, and the world resists change.  So you have people trying to create something that doesn’t exist, to make something different, and this gives us a chance just to have a conversation with people.  Every couple of weeks we get a chance to talk, and it is, it is a conversation, so I like to think of it that way. You know, so we get feedback from listeners, and we try and incorporate that into where we’re going.  But that was the whole goal is just to engage people, and part of it to say, look, we know it’s a tough job.  There are easier ways to make a living than being a project manager.  And at the same time people who do that for a living, a lot of times it’s more of a calling than a profession. So it’s something that you, you know, you can’t imagine doing anything else, it’s a chance for us to engage with people, and that’s the whole goal.  You know, we don’t monetize this podcast, we don’t sell ads, we don’t ask for donations, we’re doing it because we love this profession, too. BILL YATES:  It’s a way for us to connect with our tribe.  When I think about some of the podcasts that have meant the most to me, it’s when people are going through some of the same struggles that I have as a project manager.  Nick, I haven’t really looked at the map, but I know we’ve had, I think, just about all the continents.  We’ve had guests from all over, you know, Australia.  We had Colin, I think he joined us like 11:00 p.m. his time. NICK WALKER:  Oh, man, yeah, yeah. BILL YATES:  It was something extreme, I know, from the U.K. and from other places.  So it’s so interesting to hear perspectives from all different industries in all different locations and the struggles that they have. ANDY CROWE:  We still, I think, probably are missing Antarctica.  But I bet you, I bet you... BILL YATES:  There’s someone out there. ANDY CROWE:  There is someone out there.  I guarantee there’s a researcher.  If they’ve got good Internet, we’ll make it happen. BILL YATES:  Yeah. Nick’s New Adventure NICK WALKER:  And as the outsider, you know, in this bunch, you know, not being a project manager... BILL YATES:  What, you’re not a project manager? NICK WALKER:  Well, you know, I’ve learned something from this podcast.  Not enough to pass the PMP exam.  I’ll have to rely on your book for that.  But the things that I’ve learned, you know, go so far beyond the language and the acronyms, you know, WBS, CAPM, Agile, Scrum, Kanban boards – frankly, I’m still not sure what those last two are all about. ANDY CROWE:  You’re talking a good game, though, pal. BILL YATES:  That’s it, yeah, you’re selling the sizzle. NICK WALKER:  But as I mentioned, it’s such a big field, but it’s also inspired me in my professional life, in my personal life, recognizing that so much of what I do really is kind of project management.  My wife and I just finished one of the biggest projects of our life, so we’ve spent months trying to get a house ready to sell, getting the house on the market, negotiating with buyers, coordinating a move.  That was a big project, and the inspiration that I’ve gotten, not just from you guys, but also from our guests, I think actually helped us be more of a success in that project than we would have otherwise.  BILL YATES:  Nick, tell us more about this move. So this is a pivot point for us with Manage This.  What exactly are you guys doing?  Where are you headed? NICK WALKER:  Well, we have been living in the Atlanta metropolitan area for the last 20 years, I’ve been working at the Weather Channel as an on-camera meteorologist.  I’ve been here for the last few years working with you guys. So the time has come for us to make a transition into a new season of our life.  Our grandkids live up in the Nashville area, so our plan is to get closer to them.  My son and daughter-in-law have three kids, and soon to be a fourth one because they’re adopting a deaf child from China. And so we want to be part of that, we want to be a bigger part of the kids’ growing up. And so the time has come, I think, to say goodbye to television, to broadcasting, and just be a part of their lives more. BILL YATES:  This is going to be a wonderful chapter.  I’m so excited for you guys and proud of the move you guys are making, it’s not a selfish move at all.  We’re going to miss you here at Manage This. ANDY CROWE:  Very much. NICK WALKER:  Well, I appreciate that.  Can I just say what an education this has been, also it’s been a privilege to be associated with such an organization that’s committed to excellence, committed to helping others be the best they can be.  And so that means a lot to me, to be part of that, you folks are givers, as you mentioned, you know, this podcast isn’t sponsored.  You give of your time, energy, your talents to raise others up, and so I really appreciate that.  And I can see that in how you treat one another and how you treat our guests here on the program, it’s been personally gratifying to me to be a part of this great organization. ANDY CROWE:  Thank you, Nick.  I really appreciate that.  You know, a lot of times at a university they will confer upon someone an honorary degree, and so, Nick, by all the powers vested in me, I hereby name you an Honorary Project Manager. NICK WALKER:  Oh, my goodness. ANDY CROWE:  So now you are, that’s it, you are a project manager, you’re one of the tribe.  And so... NICK WALKER:  It goes on the résumé today. ANDY CROWE:  That’s right.  We’re going to miss you, Nick.  Thank you for everything. Reviewing Past Conversations BILL YATES:  Nick, it’s been fascinating for me just to see what’s resonated with you.  So we’re going to take a look back at some of those podcasts that maybe stood out more to you, some of the guests or some of the topics that we had. NICK WALKER:  It’s hard to really talk about which ones stick in your mind because, you know, you go back, and you look at some of these topics, and we have had some amazing guests.  You know, we talked about Tabetha, who had a star named after her, the most mysterious star in the universe.  We also went down below the seas, talked about underwater vehicles with Oceaneering International,  Wildfires in California, Cataloging space debris, Saving rhinos.  We went in depth in managing the Fukushima disaster, we also talked about managing a major motion picture with “Guardians of the Galaxy.” BILL YATES:  Yeah, with Pez, yeah. NICK WALKER:  So there’s been a lot of fun stuff.  But there’s also been a lot of practical stuff, as well.  We talked about negotiation techniques.  We talked about performance reviews, risk management.  We’ve dealt with Agile a lot, you know, answering the question, “Is Agile right for me?”  We talked about changes in the PMP exam, we answered listeners’ questions. And we talked about using the right software to get the job done.  Conflict management.  All very practical things, so many episodes dealt with such a variety.  You know, I came into this podcast kind of green, not really knowing even what project management was, but realizing that it is all of these things that we talked about, and much more.

The podcast for Project Managers by Project Managers. As organizations are going through transformation, there’s plenty of internal and external pressure to adapt, PMI’s Stephen Townsend talks about the changes and challenges for project managers, future trends in the marketplace, and how the role is evolving. Table of Contents 00:26 … Meet Stephen 02:02 … Cooks vs Chefs 08:53 … Enhancing your Toolkit 10:41 … Conflict and Adaptation 13:14 … Future Trend: Soft Skills to Accelerate Innovation 21:12 … Building New Skills and Capabilities 25:31 … Global Executive Council Talent Management Survey 29:56 … How Organizations can Help PMs Increase Value 35:54 … Challenges as Opportunities to Change your Perspective 42:13 … A Revolution of Project Management 44:48 … Connect with Stephen 46:02 … Closing STEPHEN TOWNSEND: ...one of the key things I would say to individuals is, if you’re completing PDUs just to tick the box, you’re wasting an opportunity.  You’re wasting your opportunity, and you’re wasting your organization’s opportunity because this is really your investment in ensuring that you remain competitive in today’s environment, not only within your organization, but also competitive with your peers who are project leaders. NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  This is our opportunity to meet with you and talk about what real life is like in the shoes of a professional project manager.  I’m your host, Nick Walker, and with me is the guy who is always on the lookout for interesting and talented people we can bring on our program.  And Bill, it looks like your talent scout eyes have snagged another big fish. Meet Stephen BILL YATES:  Yeah, I’m delighted that Stephen Townsend is going to give us the time on the podcast.  He is a very busy man.  I’ve known him, goes pretty far back, probably 2011 when I served on the Advisory Group for the PMI REP communities, when I really got to know Stephen.  And then had the opportunity to sit in on one of his talks, a couple of his talks actually, at the fall Global Conference back in fall of 2019 and just was reminded of the depth of his knowledge and the experience that he has.  Stephen’s out there in the marketplace.  He meets with so many companies to talk with them about their project management practices and where they’re going, what trends they see.  So great to have him on with us today. NICK WALKER:  Well, before we meet him, let’s learn a little bit more about him.  Stephen Townsend has worked with PMI since 1999, and currently he is PMI’s Director for Network Programs.  In this capacity he leads special program initiatives for the Institute.  One of those is serving on the U.K.’s Project X Research Consortium Steering Committee, supporting the benefits realization management research stream.  He’s also involved in exploring how organizations are enhancing and reinventing their value delivery capabilities.  For U.S. federal government agencies he produces materials to help them implement requirements associated with the Program Management Improvement Accountability Act.  He also leads the PMBOK Guide’s Seventh Edition transformation work stream.  Stephen, welcome to Manage This. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Thank you.  Good to be with you all today. Cooks vs. Chefs NICK WALKER:  We want to talk with you about some of the changes and challenges you see coming down the pike for future project managers.  But first, I’d like for us to talk about an analogy that Bill says you made at the PMI Global Congress last fall.  And any listeners with a background in the restaurant industry are going to get this right away.  You said that some project managers are cooks, and others are chefs, and also that we need both.  So could you explain that analogy? STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Yeah.  So just to put it in the context of the conversation that we had at the PMI Global Conference, we presented a slide that was intended to be provocative, to get people to really think about themselves in the context of their organization and its current state, whether that’s in transformation, whether they’re in steady state.  And the question was, do you envision yourself as a project manager or as a transformer?  And I’m hoping that people don’t take anything negative from the connotations of a cook versus a chef.  But they really reflect different mindsets, skills, and capabilities that we wanted to emphasize in the conversation.  So, for example, the cook likes process. BILL YATES:  Right. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Give me a pathway to creating the desired output and constrain change so that I can actually deliver what I’ve been asked to deliver.  And one of our PMI volunteer contributors, a gentleman by the name of Eric Norman, who led the development of the Third Edition of our Standard for Program Management, shares that, in the context of program management, the team embraces change because you’re trying to implement a vision of something that’s completely different, that you haven’t done before.  But in a project, your focus is on constraining change because you have a very specific output that you’re trying to accomplish.  And anything that changes that output requires change across all of the different elements of the project that you’re trying to manage, particularly the cost and the schedule and the resources. So in projects, as much as you can, you try to constrain change, whereas in programs you tend to embrace change.  And so in the environment that a cook operates in, a cook wants to maintain the stable condition.  So you want the oven at the right temperature.  You want all of the exact ingredients in the exact quantities that you need them. A chef, on the other hand, likes experimentation.  For a chef, the outcome is about the experience in finding the right ingredients, in understanding how to blend them, and in delivering a fantastic meal at the end.  It’s not about the deliverable.  It’s about the outcome.  And so in this context the chef understands the properties of the ingredients and how to blend them, how to produce the desired flavors.  Chefs also love improvisation.  They love tailoring, and they love adaptation. So if you look at that in a project context, if I’m the type of person who likes stability, or who understands and feels that the process is the way to guide the achievement of the outcomes, I’m going to be more of a cook.  So I’m going to want to use the process to constrain change, have all the right ingredients at the right time at the right temperature to move things forward.  If I’m the kind of person that loves a challenge, that loves a little bit of chaos I might be more of a chef because I want to be able to pivot and adapt.  I want to use process where process makes sense. But there may be times where we have to pivot.  We have to adapt.  We have to invent our own way of being able to deliver.  And particularly as organizations are going through transformation, as they’re trying to build new transformative capabilities.  The chef characteristics play a much greater role in those types of initiatives than they might in some of your more product or service delivery types of activities. And to the point that we were discussing before the podcast started, we had a young lady in the audience who said that she was actually a mixture of both, that she liked process because process gave her a sense of discipline and order that helped her frame how she might focus on delivering the outcome.  But she also liked a little bit of chaos and the ability to be adaptive and to change and, in some instances, to actually instigate change.  So not just responding to change, but being the one to instigate change in the organization. So people kind of know where they fit in this construct at what they’re comfortable with.  And the key thing is you can be one; you can be the other; you can be both.  And organizations need project professionals who bring both skill sets to bear. BILL YATES:  Stephen, I agree with that so much, and one thing I’ve noticed about the great chefs, they started out as cooks. STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Definitely. BILL YATES:  And I think, drawing that analogy further, I think project managers, again, we have to learn how to walk before we can really start running and sprinting.  And you’re right.  Organizations need both, both those who can follow a recipe and keep banging out consistent great results.  And then they need those who improvise or perform really well when there is a chaotic moment. There’s a show that I like watching called “Chopped.”  And it’s 60 minutes of chaos.  There are four chefs that are competing to be the Chopped Champion every episode.  And those are definitely chefs.  They don’t have recipes.  They’re given, I think, 20 minutes for the appetizer round, 30 minutes for the entrée round, and 30 minutes for dessert.  And they’re competing against each other.  They have the same ingredients.  There’s no recipe, so, you know, cooks beware.  Right?  You really – you have to improvise, and you have all these different resources that you can go to, to pull in different flavors.  And so it’s fun to watch that. But I can see how that analogy plays out with project managers.  And one thing I’m excited about, Stephen, after hearing your presentation, your talk at Global, I was thinking, you know, what a great conversation to have in terms of what you see in terms of trends in the marketplace for project managers.  How do you see the position or the role evolving?  And I know you and I had some prior conversation about a particular study from the American Productivity and Quality Center.  Maybe a good time for us to talk through some of that, some of those findings. Enhancing your Toolkit STEPHEN TOWNSEND:  Sure.  Before we go to that topic, though, I also want to point out, because when we use the word “project manager,

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The podcast for project managers by project managers. Project Managing Community Gardens. Hear all about an innovative project to increase access to locally grown food and build healthier communities, by empowering local growers, prioritizing local food, and saving food-producing land in a fast-growing city. Table of Contents 01:37 … Meet Britni 02:22 … Food Well Alliance 04:18 … Connecting with a Passion 05:33 … Preparing for a PM Role 07:02 … Stakeholders 07:59 … Plant Eat Repeat Project 09:01 … Aluma Farm Project 13:57 … Communication with Stakeholders 15:03 … Working with City Governments 16:06 … Problem Statement Strategy 18:09 … Facing Obstacles 20:03 … Compost Issues 22:44 … Getting a Community Garden Started 24:55 … Resources Offered to Growers 26:58 … Face to Face with End Users 29:20 … Where to get Produce 29:42 … Advice for New PM’s 30:41 … Lessons Learned 31:43 … Closing BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  I think my advice would be the importance of building your project management toolbox, so learning what are those best practices, whether it’s techniques of communication, how to interact with partners externally or internally.  What are those tools you need, you know, your templates for budget and timeline and meeting notes?  But then in addition to that also still being able to stay fluid and adaptable and recognizing that you may have to change things up because every project is slightly different.  Every partner on that project is slightly different.  NICK WALKER:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We’ve been listening to what you’ve been telling us about what subjects you’re interested in and what kinds of guests you’d like to hear from, and so we thank you for your input. Please keep the comments about our podcast coming.  So you can leave a comment on Google, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or whichever podcast listening app you use.  You can also leave comments on the Velociteach.com website or on our social media pages, it’s your feedback that brings the kind of guest we have on our program today.  And Bill Yates, I need to tell you, I’m not sure who suggested we have a podcast about food, but I’m certainly glad they did. BILL YATES:  It’s making me hungry just thinking about that.  Looking forward to getting into that.  So Britni is going to describe some projects that she’s worked with that are really unique, the stakeholders are unique, the problems to solve are unique.  And I think, regardless of the type of project we have, we can all learn from Britni. Meet Britni NICK WALKER:  So, let’s meet our guest, she’s Britni Burkhardsmeier, a project and impact manager at the Atlanta non-profit Food Well Alliance, a collaborative network of local growers, community leaders, and city leaders, working to build thriving community gardens and farms across Metro Atlanta.  The goal is to increase access to locally grown food in order to build healthier communities.  Britni holds a master’s in public health from Emory University’s Rollins School of Public Health, with a concentration in global nutrition.  Prior to attending graduate school, Britni worked as program coordinator on the emergency health and nutrition team at Save the Children U.S. in Washington, D.C.  Britni, welcome to Manage This. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Thank you for having me. Food Well Alliance NICK WALKER:  Let’s get started by just learning a little bit more about the Food Well Alliance. So how did that organization get started? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  So we started in 2015 with funding from our founding benefactor, the James M. Cox Foundation.  And we really got started because it was a vision between the Cox Foundation and Bill Bolling, the founder of the Atlanta Community Food Bank.  And so together they saw an opportunity to connect members of Atlanta’s local food movement to collectively build healthier communities. NICK WALKER:  And what about you?  I mean, tell us a little a bit about your background.  So how did you meet up with this organization? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah, so I got introduced to Food Well Alliance in 2017, when I was a graduate student at the Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University.  So I was getting my master’s in public health, with a concentration in nutrition, and through a professor and a class got introduced to Food Well Alliance and was part of a team that helped write the Atlanta’s Local Food Baseline Report, which Food Well Alliance published.  Kind of one thing led to another, and I stayed on.  And so, yeah. BILL YATES:  I’ve got something that I have to confess right off the top. NICK WALKER:  Uh-oh. BILL YATES:  I hate cucumbers. NICK WALKER:  No. BILL YATES:  So when you studied nutrition, and when we talk about local farms and farming and bringing vegetables and fruit to local communities, I have to go ahead and confess I am totally cool with this conversation as long as we don’t say we have to have cucumbers.  Can we agree to that? NICK WALKER:  So this guy, when somebody brings in masses of cucumbers that they’ve grown at home in their garden to give out to all... BILL YATES:  To share. NICK WALKER:  Yeah, to share, you kind of... BILL YATES:  I curse them. NICK WALKER:  Yeah. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Good news is that farms and gardens grow a lot of things in addition to cucumbers, yeah. BILL YATES:  Okay, that’s good. So okay, I’m onboard with this conversation,  I’m probably going to get some hate mail on that, and I get it. They’re nutritional, but I am sorry, it just doesn’t do it for me.  There are many vegetables that I do fully endorse and embrace and eat very consistently, but cucumbers are not it. Okay. NICK WALKER:  All right. Connecting with a Passion BILL YATES:  I just had to hate on it just for a minute.  When I think about, okay, you go to school, and you pursue nutrition, and you go deep into that, and then you find an organization that connects with a passion that had to be fun for you.  And, I mean, for so many people, they’re deeper into their career.  They’ve been working for quite a while.  And they’re like, eh, still don’t really enjoy, haven’t really found that thing.  But it seems like you were able to make that connection with this organization that’s like, okay, this is a passion point for me.  Was that the case? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah.  The thing that’s also really exciting about it is, so nutrition’s really broad; right? BILL YATES:  Yeah. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  There’s a lot that fits under that, from the health side to then like food and security.  Do people have access to food?  And Food Well kind of bridges a lot of those gaps.  So, yes, I came at it originally from nutrition in terms of making sure that’s how people are getting their nutrients, and they’re staying healthy.  But then my time at Food Well Alliance, I have learned about why healthy soil and compost is so important to make sure that the food that you’re eating is nutritious; why it’s important for people to have access to these foods, whether that’s farm stands at urban farms or farmers’ markets or community gardens kind of producing for themselves and the families that are there. Preparing for a PM Role NICK WALKER:  You have been thrust in this role of project manager. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yes. NICK WALKER:  So what kind of prepared you for that role? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  It wasn’t something that I really knew much about going into it.  So it’s not like I went into school being like, okay, project management is what I want to do.  But it was one of those things where, in my career, both before Food Well Alliance and then really at Food Well Alliance, colleagues and managers kept kind of being like, you know, the skills you’re exhibiting are really great skills for project management. And so the more that I looked into, okay, what is project management, what does a project manager do, really realizing that that is what I was doing in the projects that I had been placed in.  And so that’s what I was enjoying doing.  I enjoyed working with a bunch of different people on something and kind of, not necessarily being the expert, but working with all of the experts and really bringing them together to produce something kind of incredible. BILL YATES:  And for not-for-profits such as the Atlanta Food Well Alliance, it’s so important to bring in somebody that’s got that skill set and that natural bent of, okay, I’m good at connecting people and managing stakeholders and helping define  requirements and then getting it done. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah.  And, you know, it’s been interesting for me because sometimes that’s just internal with my colleagues; right?  There can be a bunch of us within different teams, even though we’re a small organization, really kind of, okay, how do I project manage that internally; but then definitely externally, as well, because we do work with so many different partners. Stakeholders BILL YATES:  I wanted to ask you about those stakeholders.  We kick around that word “stakeholder.”  But you do, you’ve got internal – you’ve got experts that obviously know a lot about nutrition and a lot about land use and things like that.  But then you partner with everybody from folks wearing coveralls to people wearing three-piece suits. BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  Yeah. BILL YATES:  So you have politicians, you have people with a lot of money, you have people that have very intense needs locally, what prepared you for that? BRITNI BURKHARDSMEIER:  I’m not sure, to be honest, but it is probably one of my favorite parts of what I do is working with everything from the farmers and the growers.  So I work on a couple of projects with Truly Living Well Center for Natural Urban Agriculture, which is an urban farm in the west side,