Manage This - The Project Management Podcast

The podcast by project managers for project managers. Do you want to learn about the PMP Exam changes? Louis Alderman and Bill Yates discuss the 2021 PMP Exam created by the Project Management Institute (PMI). We also hear from Samuel Mills, PMP, who recently passed the PMP Exam. He shares his exam experience with us. Table of Contents 02:58 … Why Change the PMP Exam?04:23 … The ECO and the PMP Exam Changes06:18 … What’s in the ECO?08:27 … ECO Content: 35 Tasks11:41 … Predictive, Agile, Hybrid13:36 … Why is Agile Added to the PMP Exam?15:29 … PMP Exam Specifics19:54 … Are There Many Calculations?20:47 … Pass/Fail and Format of the PMP Exam23:59 … “Immediate” Exam Feedback26:24 … The 7th Edition of the PMBOK Guide27:05 … Velociteach Approach to the PMP Exam Changes32:26 … Not Our First Rodeo33:35 … PMP Examinee: Samuel Mills34:15 … Online or Test Center36:00 … Application Process36:14 … Managing Time38:04 … Best Prep Tools and Practice Tests40:32 … Advice for Test Takers42:39 … Advice from Louis and Bill44:13 … Closing SAMUEL MILLS: ...and I found time to study. I would take my lunch break, and I would pop up my book, and then I would just go through the material and just practice that, and that was my lunch.  You know, I would eat and study, eat and study.  And just taking it a step forward got me to where I was ready for the exam.  And even when I was taking the exam, I was like, oh, you know, I’m not sure.  But I was able to pass.  If you’re struggling for time, you can find time.  You’ve just got to be creative with where you’re going to get that time. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  We want to say thank you to our listeners who reach out to us and leave comments on our website and on social media.  We love hearing from you, and we always appreciate your positive ratings on Apple Podcasts or whichever podcast listening app you use.  You can also leave us a comment on our website, Velociteach.com.  We know you’re looking for opportunities to acquire Professional Development Units towards recertifications, and you can still claim PDUs for all our podcast episodes.  Listen up at the end of the show for information on how to claim your PDUs. We’re doing something a little different today.  We’re actually going to be talking about the PMP exam, and we’re going to be talking a little bit about Velociteach and our approach to this exam. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  The exam changed January 2nd, 2021.  We’ve got several months under our belt now.  We made a lot of updates prior to that exam change.  And we’ve been able to see how well our updates are working.  Primarily, are our students passing? WENDY GROUNDS:  Right.  We’re going to hear from a student, as well.  We have a student who has recently passed the exam.  He’s going to be giving us a little bit of insight into his exam process. BILL YATES:  For our listeners who are thinking about pursuing the PMP, this is a great episode for them.  They’re going to learn a lot about the current exam, and really looking deeply into it so they’ll know what to study, what kind of content to expect.  And then for those who have already earned their PMP, but are curious about changes to the PMP exam or to the certification itself, this will be interesting, as well. WENDY GROUNDS:  Yeah.  And we want to give a big welcome to Louis.  Louis Alderman manages the instructional design process at Velociteach.  He’s responsible for curriculum development of our live class offerings, as well as the development of our courses delivered on InSite.  Louis is the expert on all things PMP exam, and we are very grateful for his time. LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Now, that’s a strong claim.  I tend to not classify myself as an “expert,” an ex being a has-been, and a spurt being a drip under pressure.  But I thank you for those accolades, and it’s more than my pleasure to be here today. Why Change the PMP Exam? WENDY GROUNDS:  It’s good to talk to you, Louis.  We’re going to enjoy this.  So, Bill, let’s start with a bit of context and background.  Why exactly was there a change to the exam? BILL YATES:  The main reason for the change to the PMP exam, okay, there are two reasons that it changes:  either a new PMBOK Guide, or there’s a new role delineation study.  Because it’s an ANSI standard, the PMP exam has to be updated every four to six years to align with the ISO and ANSI standards for certification industry best practices.  Because of this, PMI has to do a global survey – they call it a Role Delineation Study, an RDS – every four to six years.  In this case they did a global practice analysis, which resulted in a job/task analysis.  But what’s the big question, Louis?  Why do they do this?  LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Well, they want to keep the profession of project management and their certification of that project management professional, they want to keep it current.  And so let’s survey a representative sample of project managers today to find out, what do you do every day?  What are the tasks you do?  What are your responsibilities?  How accountable are you in your organization for the role of project manager?  And what falls out of that survey are a list of tasks that PMI will categorize and understand where does that task belong in our overall view of project management. BILL YATES:  Which brings us to our next question. The ECO and The Exam Changes WENDY GROUNDS:  Yes.  What exactly changed in this exam?  And there is something called an ECO.  If you could give us some clarification on that? BILL YATES:  Yeah.  So the ECO is the Exam Content Outline.  And let me just introduce a character here.  Sierra Hampton-Simmons is someone I know, a friend of mine at PMI.  She is the Director and Portfolio Leader of Certification Products at the Project Management Institute.  Bottom line, Sierra is in charge of the PMP exam.  So when she describes the ECO, she calls it the “blueprint” for the exam.  It lines out what’s in the exam, what kind of questions are going to be asked, what’s the format, that type of thing. LOUIS ALDERMAN:  You know, Bill, that should clear up a very common misconception because traditionally people have felt that the PMP exam was based on the Guide to the PMBOK or the Project Management Body of Knowledge that is also published by PMI and incorporates that ANSI standard of project management.  So a lot of thinking is, if I read the Project Management Body of Knowledge, this guidebook to this body of knowledge, that I will be prepared to take the exam.  Not so. BILL YATES:  No, that’s not true. LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Because this Exam Content Outline, as Sierra said, is the blueprint for the exam.  And so it’s presented a lot differently than the Guide to the PMBOK. BILL YATES:  Right.  And the PMBOK Guide, it’s interesting, the PMBOK Guide is one of maybe 20 books that are referenced? LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Mm-hmm. BILL YATES:  And when the exam writers, and we’ll get into that in a little more detail, but it’s only one of 20-plus resources that they have to reference when they write a question, per the ECO that’s going to go into the exam bank for the PMP exam. LOUIS ALDERMAN:  So there’s not just one place to go source information and knowledge about project management in preparation for the exam, in that way of thinking. What’s in the ECO? BILL YATES:  Right.  So the Exam Content Outline is not that big.  It’s maybe, what, 15, 20 pages? LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Yeah, something like that. BILL YATES:  It’s such an important document.  It’s short, but it’s very important.  I’m going to quote from the Exam Content Outline.  This is from page 1.  It says the following:  “All the questions on the examination have been written and extensively reviewed by qualified PMP certification holders and tracked to at least two academic references.  These questions are mapped against the PMP Exam Content Outline to ensure that an appropriate number of questions are in place for a valid exam.” To me, there’s two big takeaways there.  The questions that are written by PMP volunteers, they have to have two references, and they have to map to the ECO. LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Well, the previous Exam Content Outline detailed an entirely different structure of “domains” and “tasks.”  And from domains, let’s talk about areas of interest.  For example, the previous ECO had five domains, and it was based on the process view of project management from PMI’s Guide to the PMBOK.  And it talked about initiating and planning and executing and monitoring and controlling and closing, you know, a very process focus.  The biggest change in the new Exam Content Outline is that it’s moved from those five domains to three domains.  And they’re not aligned per se with processes, but more of practices and tasks.  So the three domains now are process is one, people, and the business environment which projects are performed. BILL YATES:  And in the ECO, those three are given percentages in terms of the number of questions that are going to be dedicated to each one.  So people, that domain is 42%; process is 50%; and business environment is 8%.  So people, process, business environment.  That makes up the 100% of the entire test.  But those domains are broken down further to help us get clarity on what those are. ECO Content: 35 Tasks LOUIS ALDERMAN:  Yeah, each domain is broken down first into discrete tasks.  And with those three domains there are actually a total of 35 different tasks that are broken out, that are associated with each of those domains.  And I think it’s important for a person preparing for the PMP exam to be very familiar with those tasks. You know, Bill, people always talk about the PMP exam is a scenario-based exam.  They’re not going to ask what is two plus two.  They may ask: you run into a situation where you have two of these and two of those,

When assessing the impacts of tradeoffs, project managers must exercise responsibility in relation to schedule, budget, quality, and compliance decisions. Additionally, one cannot turn a blind eye towards duty of care of the safety of the end user. Dr. Te Wu provides a project management perspective on what factors led to the catastrophic events surrounding the Boeing 737 Max 8 airline tragedies.

Creating an Olympic legacy: The project story about successfully ensuring the delivery of venues and infrastructure of the London 2012 Olympic Games while overcoming huge constraints which impacted project planning.

How do you plan for something you can't predict? Strategist Lance Mortlock demonstrates how scenariolanning can help identify risks and expose vulnerabilities. Listen in for practical steps so that projectmanagers can be better prepared by strategically incorporating scenario planning into project planning. Table of Contents 02:04 … Writing the Book: Disaster Proof03:41 … What is Scenario Planning?07:09 … Examples of Scenario Planning Implementation11:37 … Essential Questions for Scenario Planning11:45 … Step 1: Defining Scope14:38 … Step 2: Explore Environment16:32 … PESTEL18:16 … Porter’s Five Forces21:25 … Step 3: Analyze Trends, Risks, and Uncertainties22:21 … Step 4: Build Scenarios and Signposts24:45 … Storytelling27:05 … Step 5: Confirm Scenarios and Stress Test29:41 … Step 6: Monitor Signposts and Execute Strategies31:40 … Applying AI in Scenario Planning35:04 … Connect with Lance36:27 … Closing LANCE MORTLOCK:  With storytelling, we talked earlier about how project managers take their discipline to the next level.  There’s the basics of what’s expected.  But the truly great project manager leaders again are using the different tools out there like scenarios, like the power of storytelling, to create a more compelling vision of what the future could look like. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and with me in the studio is Bill Yates.  I just want to thank our listeners who have reached out to us and leave comments on our website or social media.  We always like hearing from you. We appreciate your positive ratings on Apple Podcast or whichever podcast listening app you use. So today we’re talking with Lance Mortlock.  Lance is a senior strategy partner with Ernst & Young. And he’s provided management consulting services on over 150 projects, to more than 60 clients in 11 countries.  The topic of our conversation today is based on his book, “Disaster Proof:  Scenario Planning for Post-Pandemic Future”.  And Bill and I both really enjoyed reading this book.  This was very interesting, talking about how you plan for something you can’t predict. BILL YATES:  Yeah, yeah, the uncertainty.  None of us project managers like uncertainty.  Yeah, Lance has written a brilliant book.  Okay, this is not basic project management stuff.  This is taking it to another level.  Lance’s explanation of scenario planning is spot-on.  The six steps he’s going to talk through with us are so practical and I think will resonate with the listeners.  These are some practical steps that we can use as we look at those tough questions that sponsors and customers come to us where they want us to look in the crystal ball and predict the future. WENDY GROUNDS:  Lance, welcome to Manage This.  We are so grateful to you for being our guest today. LANCE MORTLOCK:  Thanks for having me.  Looking forward to it. Writing the Book: Disaster Proof WENDY GROUNDS:  We’re talking about your book, “Disaster Proof:  Scenario Planning for Post-Pandemic Future”.  And my question is, did you already have this book in the works prior to 2020?  Did you write it as the pandemic emerged, or were you already on this project? LANCE MORTLOCK:  I have been writing for quite a bit in a more serious way and professionally for about 10 years. You know, ever since I joined Ernst & Young.  And I’ve been writing over the years about resilience, business resilience, around continuous improvement, different topics around strategy and integrated planning.  And really in, I guess, two years ago I started to think, well, I’ve done all this writing.  I’ve explored all these topics.  There’s a tremendous opportunity to kind of bring these topics together in an integrated way.  So I started to think about that and work on that two years ago. And then I would say a year ago, when we got hit with COVID, it really came to light for me that future thinking in organizations is just so important.  And so while the book is positioned and framed around this post-pandemic future and positioned around COVID, that’s certainly not the primary emphasis.  It’s much broader than that.  So it’s been a multiyear journey, and really a two-year journey specifically writing the book; and a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, you know. Particularly in the last year, getting it over the line, which I finally did. What is Scenario Planning? BILL YATES:  The timing is just amazing to me.  I laugh when I look at Chapter 1, page 1.  You make reference to what’s called Event 201. A macro-level scenario-planning exercise where they simulated an outbreak of a coronavirus transmitted similar to what we hit just months later.  So we look at scenario planning; and we look at, oh, well, is it really worth the investment?  Is it applicable?  And right off the bat, you know, you give us a prime example of something that would have given us better preparation. And given us more insight into how to respond to this pandemic. LANCE MORTLOCK:  It’s quite amazing, actually.  When you dig into Event 201, when you dig into some of the work that CCIS was doing in the U.S., like there were international experts around the world warning us, using scenario thinking, that we’re going to get hit by a global pandemic.  And it happened.  And we ignored them.  We didn’t learn from our environment, learn from our stakeholders.  We chose to, by all intents and purposes, ignore the experts.  And we’re dealing with the consequences right now, socially and economically. BILL YATES:  Well, let’s step back.  Scenario planning.  Give us a definition of “scenario planning.” LANCE MORTLOCK:  At its basic level, it really is about thinking through multiple futures.  So it’s not looking at one future and trying to predict the future because that’s forecasting.  And project managers would do that all the time and say, I’m going to forecast the budget, the spend on my project.  I’m going to forecast the results that I’m going to deliver and the benefits that I’m going to realize. Scenario planning, which can be applied, by the way, and I have applied it in project management situations, is more about what are the multiple futures that can play out?  What do those futures look like?  And it helps leaders at different levels in organizations and in society deal with complexity and uncertainty.  It’s about envisaging those different futures, stretching mental models beyond what’s comfortable and normal to say, now, what happens if this worst-case situation occurs, or this best-case situation?  How would we react and adapt?  And it’s about monitoring the signals in the big bad world to say, okay, if that signal starts to show signs of X, Y, and Z, what would we do to kind of respond to that?  So I think of it as a methodology that helps with imagination around different futures at its basic level. BILL YATES:  Your book really pushed me to think next level, to do strategic thinking.  To your point, scenario planning is not forecasting.  Forecasting is, okay, let’s try to predict the future.  This is big-time what-if analysis.  So if I think about a project manager listening to our podcast, maybe they don’t think about scenario planning day-to-day in their project.  But as they aspire to grow in their career, they need to have awareness of this and think about, okay, how can I understand and embrace scenario planning. Because it could really help take me to the next level in my career.  So appreciate you drawing a line between forecasting, which is a regular part of project management, and scenario planning, which has a lot of potential for project managers. Examples of Scenario Planning Implementation WENDY GROUNDS:  Would you have an example that you could share with us?  Maybe one or two examples of companies that have used scenario planning and successfully implemented it? LANCE MORTLOCK:  Yeah, there’s lots of examples in the book.  And that was definitely the approach I tried to take is, yeah, there’s the theory, but what about the practice?  And so I tried to bring that to life in the book in terms of the practice. One of the examples that I think hopefully will resonate with your audience is, as part of my day job as a partner in a professional services company, 90% of my time is delivering complex change as a consultant on projects with different clients.  And so I was working on a project with a municipality with a big city, and we were focused on helping this organization reduce costs.  So it was kind of your classic cost-reduction, cost-management project.  And I was the overall lead from a consulting perspective. I had a team of great professionals from EY and a great team from the client, and we were working together on this big program, trying to take out significant costs. So really, really tough, tough environment to do that because you’re always trying to balance in the public sector that you want to reduce costs, but services to citizens need to stay the same.  And so as we were kind of working through the program, it struck me that we got to a moment in the program where we had a target of cost reduction that we were trying to achieve, but there were risks that we were trying to manage as a project management, project leadership group.  And what I suggested and what we ended up doing was saying, let’s play out different scenarios in terms of the way this project is going to unfold.  So best-case situation is we hit the target of cost reduction, and we’re good to go.  So job done.  Worst-case is we’re significantly lower, and we actually put numbers behind that.  And then medium case is we’re somewhat lower. So we started to paint these pictures of different futures for the program and the project that we were trying to drive.  And then we had a dialogue as a leadership team to say, okay, if the worst-case situation does play out,

The construction industry is evolving in terms of women-led teams. Listen in for advice to women entering the industry. Jody Staruck worked on the YWCA Central Massachusetts $24 million renovation project. She talks about the requirements, scope and stakeholders of this project and the unique story behind their petition to win the bid for this renovation. Table of Contents 01:41 … Meet Jody04:04 … The First Female Executive06:23 … Consigli Construction Growth08:38 … Maintaining a Strong Company Culture11:10 … YWCA Central Massachusetts Renovation Project13:44 … The YWCA Services to the Community14:50 … A Unique Bid Petition17:16 … Approach to Obstacles21:53 … The Unique Perspective of a Woman-Led Team24:34 … Overcoming Communication Barriers27:55 … Is the Construction Industry Changing?30:52 … Advice for Younger Women32:29 … Creating More Career Advancement Opportunities34:38 … Get in Touch with Jody35:36 … Closing JODY STARUK:  ...what I tell my younger teammates, male or female, is make a decision because at least then you’re in control.  Otherwise, the decision is being made for you.  And if you make the wrong decision, make another one to fix it.  So there’s always another option to fix it. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and here in the studio with me is Bill Yates.  We want to take a moment to say thank you to our listeners who reach out to us and leave comments on our website and on social media.  We love hearing from you, and I always appreciate your positive ratings on Apple Podcasts or whichever podcast listening app you use. One other thing is we know you’re looking for opportunities to acquire PDUs, your Professional Development Units, towards recertifications.  You can still claim PDUs for all of our podcast episodes.  Take a listen at the end of the show for information on how to claim your PDUs. When you think of an industry dominated by men, construction might be one of those that comes to mind.  Not so, Bill.  Women make up apparently only 10 to 11% of the construction industry’s workforce. BILL YATES:  Well, we are fortunate to have a conversation today with a real trailblazer in the industry.  In 2017, our guest, Jody Staruk, received Consigli’s highest honor, Builder of the Year, out of 300 eligible employees.  Now, Consigli is located –it’s in the northeast.  It’s mostly in the Boston area.  So Jody is the first woman recipient.  She’s also the first female project executive in Consigli’s 116-year history. Meet Jody WENDY GROUNDS:  Hi, Jody.  Welcome to Manage This.  Thank you for joining us today. JODY STARUK:  Thank you so much for having me. WENDY GROUNDS:  We want to find out a lot of things from you today.  But I first want to know how did you get into the construction business?  It is rather an unusual choice.  Just tell us your background story a little bit. JODY STARUK:  Sure.  Well, it was actually by sheer luck.  I grew up in Maine.  I never saw a building be built in my entire life.  My mom was a math teacher.  So if I got less than an A in math I was grounded, which didn’t seem very fair because the worse I ever got was a B, but that’s still how it works.  So I was good at math by necessity, and I also enjoyed, you know, the sciences and stuff like that. And the only thing that led me down the road of engineering was a drafting class I took my senior year in high school.  And in Maine they have the University of Maine system, and UMaine Orono has a really good engineering school.  So I was going to go there because everybody goes to one of the UMaine schools.  And I applied to Worcester Polytechnic Institute just to say I applied to two schools.  I got into both, and I said, “All right, great, I’m going to go to UMaine.”  And my parents said, “Great, you’re going to live at home.”  And I said, “WPI it is.” BILL YATES:  So it made the decision. JODY STARUK:  Yeah, yeah.  And, you know, years later, once I had set up college accounts for my girls, you know, come to find out they really Miyagi’d me into that decision because it was cheaper for them to send me to WPI, which was a predominantly male school, because of the money I was receiving from them, than it was UMaine.  So they kind of reverse psychology’d me.  Then when I got there I was studying civil engineering, and I was going to do structural engineering. But I had one advisor who said, “Have you ever thought about construction project management?”  I said, “No, I have no idea what that is.”  And he said, “I think you’d be really good at it because you’re really good with people.”  And I just kind of took that very naively and said okay.  And I ended up staying at WPI for my master’s degree – they do a five-year BS/MS program – and worked with him on my thesis.  Got introduced to Consigli at a job fair and then ended up working with them right out of the gate.  And almost 18 years later, here I am.  But I walked in day one not knowing anything.  And actually lucked out quite a bit, that, one, it’s something I really enjoy; and, two, come to find out I’m relatively good at it. The First Female Executive WENDY GROUNDS:  That’s amazing.  And what has kind of been the reality for you as a woman?  I think you were the first woman project manager that they’d had? JODY STARUK:  So I wasn’t the first project manager.  There were two, I think, ahead of me by the time I was promoted to project manager back in, I don’t know, maybe ‘06?  But I was the first female executive.  And it was interesting because it took Anthony Consigli about a year to get me to say yes because, when he approached me with it, my girls had just turned two and four.  So I was in the heat of it.  I was busy.  My husband’s a firefighter.  So I’m working around a rotating schedule. And frankly, what I told him, I said, “Anthony,” I said, “I come to work to feel confident and in control.”  I said, “And I don’t really know anything about the executive position and what they do.”  Because I never really interacted with them because I just ran my projects.  And if I needed them, I’d call maybe, you know, a half a dozen times a year.  Other than that, I was on my own island and said, “Leave me alone.  I’m good.” The three reasons he gave me at the time were, “One, you’ve been here a really long time.  I think you deserve this position,” he said.  “Two, I think you’d have a greater impact on the company because you’d get to interact with more people and more teams than you do on your individual jobsites.”  And he said, “Three is actually rather selfish.”  But to me it was my favorite one.  He said, “I really need the women of this organization to know that they have a place to go.”  I really, really loved that. It still took them a year after that because I said, “Well, I need to understand a little bit more about what they do and what my role would be.”  And, you know, he said, “Well, if you don’t like it, you can always go back to running projects.”  And I said, “Anthony, you’re asking me to be the first female executive of the company, which means it can’t fail,” I said, “because whether it’s my decision or not, it will never be viewed that way, and I don’t want to send that message to the younger women in the company.” So it took about a year for me to get onboard and be comfortable enough with it that I knew it was the right thing.  And now it’s been about three and a half years, and I feel like I’m kind of gaining my stride and understanding it and doing some really good and fun things with my teams and the company.  And I’m really enjoying myself. Consigli Construction Growth BILL YATES:  You’ve had a phenomenal career there.  Thank you for sharing some of that background, too.  And I’m sure for some listeners just that sense of, okay, I’m kind of going first into this position or at this level.  I’m sure there are many that can relate to that, that sense of, okay, this is more than just a job.  I’ve got some responsibilities kind of beyond me.  And I don’t want to let myself down.  I don’t want to let the company down or those that work with me.  So that’s powerful.  Tell us more about Consigli Construction because when I was looking on the website and the growth, there’s been some pretty phenomenal growth.  And the cool thing is you’ve been there throughout it.  So tell us some about that. JODY STARUK:  Yeah.  So when I started, it was probably maybe a little over a hundred people, including our field staff.  We were in one small building in downtown Milford, and we were probably a 40 to $50 million company annually.  But now we have over 1,200 employees across nine regional offices that span between Washington, D.C. all the way out to Portland, Maine.  So it’s been, you know, interesting.  I’ve seen the onboarding of all these different offices and the different projects and niches that each of these regions bring.  So it’s gone from winning a project that was like $20 million and everybody going down the street to celebrate because we were all there and a part of it, to some of the projects we’re running now are bigger than the company was, exponentially bigger than the company was when I started. But we’ve stayed true to what we hold important, being genuine builders, having that self-perform aspect.  We’ve kept increasing our self-perform labor force, you know, so we’re still doing the masonry.  We have masons, carpenters, and laborers.  So that has never changed.  We still do the same type of work, lot of academic work, healthcare, life sciences and the restoration which has never changed.  But we’ve been able to expand that a little more, especially as we’ve gone into the cities like Boston with the multifamily residential or some of the corporate developer work.  But yeah,

Kory Kogon talks about the science behind extraordinary productivity. Hear how to get the right things done, both personally and professionally, and with quality.  Kory highlights three productivity challenges: decision management, attention management, and energy management, and she describes the 5 choices to implement to master these challenges.

Negotiating, recruiting, career planning, interviewing... rarely taught, crucial skills that are indispensable to career success. Listen in as Mark Herschberg, author of The Career Toolkit, Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You, gives valuable career advice about pivoting and about the value of knowing your Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement (BATNA) tactic to deliver significant negotiating power.   Table of Contents 01:40 … Meet Mark02:58 … Pivoting Your Career04:56 … Impact Of COVID on Career Progress06:27 … Post Pandemic Work Shift08:19 … Being Intentional with Relationships11:01 … How to be Better at Interviewing15:11 … What are Good Interview Questions?21:17 … Preparation for Negotiations23:48 … The BATNA Approach27:10 … How to Anchor your Negotiations31:37 … How to Contact Mark32:48 … Closing. MARK HERSCHBERG:  So you want to prepare ahead of time, think about what is it that you want to get out of this negotiation.  What’s your ideal outcome?  What’s your BATNA, your Best Alternative To Negotiate Agreement?  That’s the point at which you walk away.  You shouldn’t take anything less.  What are some possible scenarios that might come up?  What are some tradeoffs you might want to do?  And what might the other side be doing?  WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  Thank you for joining us today.  I am Wendy Grounds, and joining us on Skype is Bill Yates.  Today we’re talking to Mark Herschberg.  Mark was educated at MIT, and he’s spent his career launching and fixing new ventures at startups, Fortune 500s, and academia.  Mark helped create the Undergraduate Practice Opportunities Program, MIT’s career success accelerator, where he’s taught for 20 years.  Bill, you’ve read Mark’s book, and you’re going to tell us a little bit about that. BILL YATES:  Yes.  The goal of his book is to be a career success accelerator, just like you mentioned.  And there is so much application to project management.  He’s got a chapter on communications, and the leadership chapter talks about how do we motivate team members, different ways to do that.  There’s some familiar topics here, things like Tuckman’s Ladder, the five different stages for project team development, looking at the 5 Whys technique, the Iron Triangle.  So he goes into some of these things that we’ll look at as project managers and go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.  And then he goes deeper, and those are the topics that we want to talk to him about today, things like negotiation, interviewing, tips that I think project managers can really benefit from. Meet Mark WENDY GROUNDS:  Mark, welcome to Manage This. MARK HERSCHBERG:  Thanks for having me.  It’s a pleasure to be here today. WENDY GROUNDS:  I want to hear a little bit about your book.  You authored “The Career Toolkit:  Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You.”  What prompted you to write this book? MARK HERSCHBERG:  Years ago, when I first started hiring people, software engineers, project managers, I found when I had asked them a technical question, I’d get a technical answer.  But when I would ask a question like what makes someone a good teammate, what are the communication challenges we face, I would get blank stares.  And I realized we never teach this in our undergraduate curriculum.  So I had to start training up folks that I was trying to hire. At the same time, MIT was getting similar feedback from corporate America and began to put together their own program.  So I heard about this.  I was about a year ahead of them.  I said, “You know, I’ve been working on this.  Can I help?”  So I then got involved with MIT.  I helped develop this program.  I’ve been teaching for the past 20 years.  But of course these skills, it’s not just for MIT students.  It’s not just for students.  They are universal skills.  Again, corporate America said these are the skills we want to see, but can’t find.  So I wanted to reach a larger audience with them.  And that’s why I turned a lot of what I’ve been teaching at MIT and elsewhere into a book. Pivoting Your Career WENDY GROUNDS:  I’d like to start with pivoting one’s career.  You know the pandemic has caused a lot of disruption.  There’s a lot of people, and I’m sure project managers as well, who have had  projects canceled.  Work has changed.  The environment has changed.  What advice do you have for people who are kind of at that point where they’re looking to pivot their careers? MARK HERSCHBERG:  It’s to make sure you have a clear understanding of where you want to go; right?  And that starts by saying where do I want to be five, 10, 20 years, if you can.  It doesn’t have to be a specific job.  It might be an idea; right?  I want to be leading a team of 50.  I want to be in this particular industry.  So don’t worry about fixating on a job title.  Once you have that goal, you want to work backwards.  And now project managers will get this better than anyone.  Because so many people say, well, you can’t really plan for your career.  You would never say, “Hey, we’ve got a six-month project.  Let’s just wing it.”  Right?  Of course you’re going to create a plan. You also know it’s not going to go according to plan.  We know things are going to come up along the way, and we’re going to revise our plan.  Our careers are longer than six months.  Of course we need a plan.  So you want to create that plan.  You want to think about what is your goal.  And of course in certain types of projects, especially software projects, it might be more Agile, where, well, we have an idea, but the goal’s not defined.  As opposed to bridge building, where it’s a very well-defined goal. BILL YATES:  Yes. MARK HERSCHBERG:  So you want to set as close as you can what that outcome is, specific or general; create that plan to get there; and then do regular check-ins every six or so months.  Are we on track?  Is this where I want to go?  Have I stepped closer?  Because you don’t just say, well, in six years bridge is built.  Right?  You don’t just say, well, in six years I’ll be here.  Where do you need to be in four years?  In two years?  And then how do you measure progress to that?  And so when  you’re going to pivot, whether you’re pivoting or staying on a path, it doesn’t matter.  You have your goal.  You have your path to get there.  And do the check-ins along the way. Impact of COVID on Career Progress BILL YATES:  Mark, have you seen any impact of the pandemic on this approach or on these steps that people should take? MARK HERSCHBERG:  I actually reference this in the book because when we have our plans, we know there are certain things that some might go a little faster or slower, the usual project management, the bumps along the way.  But we also know sometimes you’re in the middle of a project, and then a massive lawsuit upends the company and the project and puts it on hold.  Or there’s a big strategic shift, or M&A.  All these things can happen.  In our personal lives, same thing.  It could be your boss leaves.  It could be your division gets shut down.  A pandemic happens.  And that’s why we want, just like in our project plans, we want to be prepared for when something happens.  Same thing in our personal life. Now, when we see these changes, we know they can be setbacks.  They can be opportunities.  It’s just how we look at it.  Right now, with the pandemic, I think a lot of people have put their careers on hold.  They were just focused on heads down, let’s keep the job, and let’s make sure the company survives this. BILL YATES:  Yeah. MARK HERSCHBERG:  I think we’re about to see a massive shift in people moving between companies.  All that pent-up change is going to be happening over the second half of this year.  And that’s a huge opportunity for your career, whether you’re staying where you are, and you’re going to become more senior perhaps, you’re going to take on more responsibility, or you’re going to shift into a new role. Post Pandemic Work Shift BILL YATES:  Related to that, how do you think that those roles are going to shift in the future?  So when the pandemic is over, and we return to work, for a project manager, how do you think that work will look different? MARK HERSCHBERG:  I don’t think there’s going to be as massive a shift as other people are predicting.  It’s not like the world is suddenly going to look entirely different.  We will see more remote work.  The conversation of course went from can this work to we know it works.  And certainly one thing we really need to think about as project managers, it is about that communication.  And in fact in my book I have two chapters on management.  One is on people management; one is on process management.  At the core of them, as well as the communication chapter, it is about communication; right?  It is about engaging with people and making sure you get the right information from the right people at the right time. Now, when we are remote, that gets harder.  We all know you’ve got your audio channel.  You’ve got tone of voice.  You’ve got body language.  You have images.  And so depending on how much you engage, and how you engage, this gets easier or harder.  Even simple things like being in the meeting room a couple minutes ahead of time and saying, “Oh, yeah, how’s that project going, Bill?” and finding something out that may not happen when we’re offline.  We’re not going to run into each other at the water cooler. So as we move to a slightly more remote, not massively more remote, slightly overall, though for an individual company you could go fully remote or 50% remote.  But overall, as we get a little more remote, remember that you’re losing some of that serendipity, and that the width of that conversation channel gets narrower.

If your team alignment is off, this misalignment becomes amplified with remote teams. Hear about tools to manage the human side of your project as we take look at The Team Alignment Toolkit.

Hear about an award winning project to repurpose a 125-year old train station into an aquarium. A project that includes designing destinations and creating animal habitats that tell lasting stories.

The 2020 national elections proved to be divisive and controversial. Join us as we take a look behind the scenes with Gabriel Sterling, who became the face of Georgia elections. Gabriel publicly debunked election conspiracy theories and confronted the provocation of threats against election workers. We talk with Gabriel about people, processes, and technology as he describes the unique challenges he faced as the project manager in the role of Voting System Implementation Manager. He explains the request for proposal (RFP), procurement process, and negotiations on a project that aimed to launch the largest implementation of a technology platform for elections in the history of the United States.