Chats with Kent C. Dodds

Aaron builds in public—Laravel roots, education, and now Solo, a terminal multiplexer–style desktop app for organizing agents and dev stacks. This episode is a practical tour of product sense for developers: watching people work, reading support email with empathy, cow paths vs. fences, and why the “right” architecture can still lose if humans go home furious. You’ll hear how Aaron reasons from problem → solution when users ask for worktrees, when to duplicate UI affordances even when the model is “one,” and how introverts can still do discovery by treating outreach like an optimization mission—plus niche opportunities outside the Cursor clone gold rush. Homework When someone asks for a solution (e.g. a feature), slow down and ask what problem they’re really trying to solve—users often lead with implementations. Practice user empathy: imagine someone stressed, trying to finish work; question “technically correct” UX that blames the user instead of protecting them (confirmations, back-button data loss, etc.). If talking to people is hard, reframe discovery as a systematic search (spreadsheet energy, trusted partners, or domain friends)—or pair with someone who loves conversations. Resources Aaron D. Francis — X Jobs to Be Done (Clay Christensen) The Design of Everyday Things (Don Norman) Guest: Aaron D. Francis Company: Solo & Laravel education GitHub: @aarondfrancis 𝕏: @aarondfrancis Host: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds Youtube: Kent C. Dodds Video Watch this episode on YouTube

Dillon Mulroy, principal engineer at Cloudflare who builds AI agents and developer platforms. He talks about using real user feedback and observability to shape products. He explains sitting with support, scoping small when AI speeds coding, and why strong foundations and paging matter. He also covers reviewing agent-written code and building cross-functional relationships to prioritize fixes.

Wayne Allan, product engineering practitioner at Thoughtworks who bridges engineering and product, discusses feedback-loop thinking and quick, scrappy validation. He covers lo-fi experiments, avoiding premature optimization, Kano’s hygiene vs delighters, yes-and stakeholder techniques, and how faster builds and AI reshape search/listing UX. Practical reading: The Mom Test and Crossing the Chasm.

Dax Raad, a product and engineering leader building OpenCode, brings quick, practical takes on developer tools and product process. He talks about onboarding and bottom-up adoption. He explores product deterioration, restraint in feature design, timing vs. speed, and where coding agents help versus where human taste still matters.

Software keeps changing, and a lot of the spotlight is on AI—but the shift Kent cares about is bigger than models and agents. Implementation is increasingly delegated to tools that will keep improving; quality, review, and craft still matter, but the gap that won’t go away is product: understanding users, clarifying problems, and shipping what actually helps. This season is a deliberate tour of product engineering: conversations with people who blend product judgment with technical depth—including PMs and engineers who’ve crossed that line. The goal is the same as it’s always been for Kent’s teaching: give you durable skills. Right now, that means leveling up how you think about product, not just how you type code. Homework Write down one product decision you influenced (or wish you had) in the last month—what would you validate earlier next time? Pick an app you use weekly: what problem is it really solving for you, and where does it feel like the team lost the plot? Subscribe or follow Chats with Kent so you don’t miss the guest episodes in season 7. Resources Chats with Kent on kentcdodds.com Video Watch this on YouTube

Kent says goodbye at the end of another season of the "Chats with Kent" podcast, which featured interviews with speakers for the upcoming Epic Web Comp 2025 conference in Salt Lake City. The host, Kent C. Dodds, expresses excitement about the lineup of speakers and encourages listeners to attend the conference in March 2025. He also mentions that the talks will be available on the EpicWeb.dev platform for those who miss the live event. Meet at Epic Web Conf. Guest: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds Host: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds YouTube: Kent C. Dodds Epic Web: epicweb.dev

Kent C. Dodds sits down with Jason Lengstorf to discuss his talk at Epic Web Conf, Of Things Epic, where he dives into the principles behind effective decision-making in web development. Rather than focusing on which tools to pick, Kent emphasizes the need for a framework that enables developers to make confident decisions that scale. He draws from his experience with the Epic Stack, highlighting the importance of clear reasoning behind technical choices. Key topics in this conversation include: Why decision paralysis is unnecessary in modern web development. How the Epic Programming Principles provide a solid foundation for making smart tech choices. Why Laravel's opinionated approach has been so successful and what we can learn from it. The importance of structuring your projects so they can evolve without unnecessary rewrites. How in-person conferences create opportunities for career growth and deeper relationships. Kent also shares his excitement about the hallway track at Epic Web Conf, encouraging attendees to come talk to him about real-world experiences with the Epic Stack, scaling web apps, and even personal interests like family life, one-wheeling, and snowboarding. Watch this episode. Meet Kent at Epic Web Conf. Guest: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds YouTube: Kent C. Dodds Epic Web: epicweb.dev Host: Jason Lengstorf Website: CodeTV.dev 𝕏: @jlengstorf GitHub: @jlengstorf YouTube: CodeTV

Andre Landgraf joins Kent to discuss his talk at Epic Web Conf, Epic Image Optimization. In this conversation, they explore the challenges and trade-offs of optimizing images for the web, particularly when handling large numbers of event photos or user-generated content. Andre shares how building his own image optimization pipeline gave him a deeper understanding of the process, allowing him to make more informed decisions when choosing external services. Kent and Andre also discuss: The evolution of All Things Web, a meetup Andre organizes in the Bay Area. The importance of community in web development and how in-person meetups have shaped his career. His experience working with Ember at LinkedIn and his upcoming career shift. Why diving deep into a problem—like image optimization—makes you a better engineer. How Epic Web Conf has become a must-attend event for those passionate about web technologies. Andre brings a wealth of experience and enthusiasm to the conversation, making this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to level up their approach to image handling in modern web applications. Watch this episode. Meet Andre at Epic Web Conf. Guest: Andre Landgraf Website: andrelandgraf.dev 𝕏: @andrelandgraf94 GitHub: @andrelandgraf Host: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds YouTube: Kent C. Dodds Epic Web: epicweb.dev

In this conversation, Jason Lengstorf, creator of CodeTV and the Web Dev Challenge, joins Kent to discuss: His background in engineering, developer relations, and open-source at companies like IBM, Gatsby, and Netlify. The Web Dev Challenge, a fast-paced, team-based competition that brings developers together to solve unique coding challenges in just four hours. The free Epic Web Conf hackathon happening the day before the conference, where attendees can join the challenge, build something cool, and showcase their work. His philosophy on career growth, taking calculated risks, and building a career you truly enjoy. Why in-person conferences are critical for networking and how making friends, rather than “networking,” can be the key to long-term success. Jason shares why he prioritizes being in physical spaces with other developers, how meaningful relationships have shaped his career, and why he believes success comes from showing up, trying hard, and having the courage to take chances. Watch this episode. Meet Jason at Epic Web Conf. Guest: Jason Lengstorf 𝕏: @jlengstorf GitHub: @jlengstorf BlueSky: jason.energy Website: codetv.dev Host: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds YouTube: Kent C. Dodds Epic Web: epicweb.dev

In this conversation, Ryan Florence, co-creator of Remix and React Router, joins Kent to talk about the evolving landscape of web development. He shares insights on: The motivation behind moving core Remix features into React Router. The rising importance of AI-driven development and how it affects frameworks. Betting on the web platform as a long-term strategy for performance, portability, and future-proofing applications. How Remix is being reimagined with a focus on web-native capabilities. The role of conferences in building meaningful career relationships. Ryan also shares his personal reflections on balancing career, family, and the desire to step back from the spotlight. Whether you're a Remix user, a React developer, or just curious about where the web is heading, this discussion offers a fascinating look at the future of frameworks and the web. Watch this episode. Meet Ryan at Epic Web Conf. Guest: Ryan Florence 𝕏: @ryanflorence GitHub: @ryanflorence Host: Kent C. Dodds Website: kentcdodds.com 𝕏: @kentcdodds GitHub: @kentcdodds YouTube: Kent C. Dodds Epic Web: epicweb.dev