Overtired

Mental health, siblings, The Bear, and some apps you absolutely have to check out. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Medisafe The Bear (Jeff just finished last night!) Sandman Hazel FastScripts Name Mangler Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript # Barely There [00:00:00] **Jeff:** Hello everybody. This is Overtired. I’m one of your hosts, Jeff severances. Gunzel and I just got outta my prepo shower. And I’m here with Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra. Hello, friends [00:00:19] **Brett:** I have always said that cleanliness is next to podcast or [00:00:23] nurse. [00:00:24] **Jeff:** podcast. [00:00:26] **Brett:** Yes. [00:00:26] **Jeff:** Hi, [00:00:28] **Brett:** Hi [00:00:28] **Christina:** Hello? [00:00:31] **Jeff:** wait, Christina, why don’t you tell us [00:00:32] where you are because people [00:00:34] can’t see, but I can tell you’re not where you would be [00:00:36] normally [00:00:37] **Christina:** yeah. I’m not where I would be normally. So I’m in Atlanta. I’m at my parents house. My mom’s birthday is today actually, as we’re recording this, so happy, 75th happy 75th birthday mom. Um, very, very, uh, happy to be here with her. So I [00:00:51] am in, um, the, uh, the bedroom that I stay in when I’m at their house. So I’m basically like in a nice, like, it’d be like, like a nice Airbnb[00:01:00] [00:01:00] **Jeff:** Mm-hmm nice. [00:01:01] **Brett:** you are 10 years younger than me, but your parents are the same age as my parents. Did [00:01:06] they have you really late? [00:01:08] **Christina:** Yes. [00:01:09] **Brett:** Is your sister older? [00:01:11] **Christina:** Yes. [00:01:12] **Brett:** Okay. So you’re, are you the youngest [00:01:14] **Christina:** I’m the baby. I’m the baby. And she’s older. And then my [00:01:17] parents were, frankly, they were older. [00:01:18] when they had my sister, [00:01:20] so [00:01:20] **Brett:** I mean, my parents were older when they had me. So [00:01:22] your parents I, I can’t do math, [00:01:25] **Christina:** yeah. [00:01:26] **Brett:** that’s, that’s, pretty advanced. [00:01:28] **Christina:** Yeah. [00:01:29] **Brett:** All right. [00:01:30] **Jeff:** Yeah, well, my parents were 24 and it did not work out. something to be said for waiting a bit. [00:01:41] **Brett:** uh, yeah. [00:01:44] **Jeff:** here [00:01:44] **Brett:** I’m the oldest, but my sister’s only six years younger than me. [00:01:48] **Jeff:** Hmm. Are you, so none of you have [00:01:50] steps or anything like that. You’re [00:01:52] dealing with the, uh, the, original set. [00:01:54] **Brett:** I [00:01:54] **Christina:** Aboriginal said OG OG, OG rents, [00:01:57] **Jeff:** Yep. I just had an [00:02:00] amazing step kid experience where, so my mom was married twice and the second marriage was when I was like, end of junior high, beginning of high school. Um, and I had a stepbrother and a step sister at that time. We didn’t get along any of us, but somehow after my parents, after their parents in mind divorced my former stepbrother and I. [00:02:21] Like inseparable. We started hanging out. He’s five years older than me. We started hanging out. We started taking road trips to New York to see bands. We, we started a band, we made an album. We toured together for a couple of years. Like we became completely inseparable. And in the process of that, I became close with his grandparents, which had nothing to do with my family or my step family and his mother who was like kind of vilified in our family wrongly. [00:02:47] And so I, I sort of built this whole weird, separate family. And about, um, three weeks ago, my brother who lives in Brooklyn, uh, came to town and, and said, Hey, I’m, I’m cleaning out my mom’s [00:03:00] garage. Could I get a hand? Could you help me? So I go over there cuz I love his mom and she loves me and I’m sitting there and I’m cleaning. [00:03:07] My mom’s ex-husband’s ex-wife’s garage and, uh, and, and someone comes by like a neighbor and she’s like, oh, have you met my son, Frank? That’s my stepbrother, former stepbrother. Then she looks to me to introduce me and, and we both just smile at each other because realize there’s like, no name, what she was trying to do was introduce her ex-husband’s ex-wife’s son. [00:03:32] Right? Like, there’s no name for that. And I just felt like this is exactly what it’s like to be a step. Like it’s so confusing. It has no fucking rules. Right? Like there’s no prediction as to how it’s gonna, uh, it’s gonna go. Um, so anyway, you pick your family, I guess. [00:03:47] **Brett:** Yeah, I, I, I have no idea what that’s like. [00:03:50] **Jeff:** Yeah. [00:03:50] **Christina:** I don’t either cuz like my parents have been married for 50 years, but [00:03:54] um, like [00:03:55] literally, uh, but like April was, was their 50th wedding anniversary. [00:04:00] But um, [00:04:01] yeah, but, uh, but I love that. Like you became close with the, with your, your step siblings, like after everything happened, like that’s, that’s just so fascinating to me. [00:04:11] Um, [00:04:12] **Jeff:** weird. [00:04:13] **Christina:** How did you even stay in touch? Cuz like, this is just me guessing how I would act. I imagine that if I had step siblings and then we didn’t get along and then we were no longer related, like by any measure, you know what I mean? Like we had no reason to even have to be around each other. I cannot imagine even like being around the person. [00:04:32] I, I think that I would just be like, that would be where I would be like, yeah, you know what? I’m just gonna, not ever see this person again. [00:04:39] **Jeff:** Yeah, well, that is how I think it would normally go because it was my older brother. Who’s my stepbrother. Like he lived with us on and off in the five years that our parents were married. Um, but he was just kind of a Dick to me. And he like, he’d like handcuff me to the dog kennel or whatever. It’s like total older brother shit. [00:04:57] But for, for reasons, I don’t still [00:05:00] don’t fully understand. And he doesn’t either. We just tried to revisit this a couple years after the divorce, he invited me out to dinner and do a show and we ended up talking, you know, into the early hours and, and he kind of went, whoa, this little brother of mine’s kind of cool. [00:05:13] And I was like, whoa, this older brother of mine likes me. And, and we just, like, we just started hanging out and we don’t really understand why, but I did, I did come to realize recently, um, that, and, and he kind of, I think he basically agrees that this must be it is that we actually didn’t know how to say it or feel it exactly. [00:05:32] But we grieved the loss of that family. Like. We may not have been close, but we were very typical, younger and [00:05:39] **Christina:** but you were family, right? Like you, yeah. Yeah. Like he, he like, he was a Dick to you, but he was your big brother. He was a Dick that way. And it probably would’ve been a thing. And again, I’m extrapolating here cause I’ve never had a brother I’ve never had steps, but I would imagine that like how he treated you, if he’d been blood related. [00:05:55] Would’ve maybe been less annoying to you. You know what I mean? Like you still [00:05:59] **Jeff:** Yeah. I’m like [00:06:00] who? It’s kind of like when you have a step, you don’t like, you’re like, you’re not my fucking dad. It’s like you not [00:06:03] **Christina:** that’s what I’m saying. It’s like, [00:06:04] **Jeff:** you’re handcuffing me to a dog kennel. [00:06:06] **Christina:** it’s like, it’s like, who the fuck are you? You’re not my brother. Yeah, exactly. Cause like my sister sucks. I mean, she doesn’t, but like when growing up, like she would do like shit to me and, and, and I would do shit to her too, but you know, like she’s my sister and I can say she sucks. [00:06:21] If someone else says she sucks, they’re gonna die. Right. Like I’m allowed to talk about it, but no one else can, but I have to imagine that if it was somebody else who like, I had no blood relation with, you know what I mean? Like wasn’t born and raised with and they were like that. I’d be like, okay, genuinely who the fuck are you do not handcuff me. [00:06:38] Right. So. But, but I think you make a good point, which is that like, everybody kind of grieved the loss of like that more familial, like unit and that, that experience. And I’m glad that he was at least able to being older, like take the initiative to reach out and do that and that you guys have a, have a good [00:07:00] relationship. [00:07:00] **Jeff:** Yeah. Because the only thing we had done prior to that, between the divorce and having dinner and going to a show was he came over before going to Europe and he, and he traded me. He had, he brought all his pat Bena records and he goes, I’ll trade you these for your backpack, which was my school backpack. [00:07:16] And I was like in a heartbeat. I was like, fuck. Yeah. Like I, I literally gave him my backpack. I had no other backpack to go to school, which says a lot about how I felt about both rock and roll pat Bena and school. And, uh, and so we made that swap and then we didn’t talk for a long time. But the, the official thing is when we realized how tight we were, we did the, uh, pinprick blood brother thing. [00:07:37] And that’s not recognized by law, but it’s, it’s, it’s the reason that most people that know us know us as brothers and don’t even realize, we just decided to say, we’re brothers now. So [00:07:48] **Christina:** no, I totally, and also, also, you know, the prick thing, it, it is recognized by like playground law, right? [00:07:54] Like [00:07:56] **Jeff:** Totally. Which is a vicious kind of law. [00:07:58] **Christina:** it really is. [00:08:00] Yeah. [00:08:01] **Jeff:** Blood [00:08:02] **Christina:** Hmm. [00:08:03] **Brett:** this summer has made me realize how much I don’t I’m I’m not close with my siblings at all. [00:08:09] **Jeff:** what do you mean the summers made you realize [00:08:11] **Brett:** This summer, both both of my siblings came for one week, stays in town with my [00:08:17] parents. So I only saw them a couple of times while they were in town. But man, my [00:08:23] brother is [00:08:24] unbearable. Like you want pretentious, you think I’m pretentious, you should meet my brother [00:08:31] **Jeff:** friend of the show? Brett’s brother [00:08:33] **Brett:** and my sister, my sister, I love like, I think my sister’s great, uh, a little religious for my taste, but we just, with a six year difference and me going off to college before she was even in high school, like we were never close. We, we barely know each other and I enjoy her and her husband and her daughters are fantastic. [00:08:56] They’re just great nieces. Uh, but I’ve [00:09:00] realized we just, we don’t connect in any kind of [00:09:03] real. [00:09:04] Way, it sounds like you are way closer with your stepbrother than I ever have, but your former stepbrother than I [00:09:12] have ever been with either of my blood siblings. [00:09:15] **Jeff:** Mm, yeah. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a blessing. You’re where do they live? They’re spread throughout the country [00:09:20] **Brett:** Yeah. Wesley’s in Atlanta. And, uh, Atlanta’s in like somewhere in Ohio Dayton, maybe. I don’t know her, her husband works for the department of defense. If I recall correctly. He does, he does laser shit. He’s an engineer who does laser shit. And he loses me very quickly when he starts telling me about work. [00:09:46] Uh, but we get to talk about like, he, his company, like his, well, his organization within the company kind of adopted this startup mentality, which I’ve been through before, when you’re in a large [00:10:00] corporation and your team starts doing scrum and, and standups. And, and you’re just like, yeah, I, there’s a reason I don’t work for startups and I don’t need that in my, in my corporate [00:10:13] **Jeff:** laser scrums though. Laser scrums. That sounds fun. [00:10:19] **Brett:** Yeah. We had, we had a good conversation. We, we went for a hike. It was, I I [00:10:24] like Joe and [00:10:26] Lana [00:10:27] better than I like the rest of my family. And I still feel like I barely know them. [00:10:32] **Jeff:** Mmm, family corner [00:10:38] we, totally just did family corner. [00:10:40] **Christina:** we we totally did just do family corner. Yeah. I, I could, I [00:10:42] could, yeah, my sister and I [00:10:44] it’s similar, like we’re [00:10:45] six years apart. We know each other, but like we would, neither of us would choose to be friends with the other one if we were not related. Um, but since she has had the baby, you know, we are closer. [00:10:58] And like I said, like, I can say she sucks. If [00:11:00] someone else does, then I’m gonna get mad. Um, I don’t know. It it’s, it’s more complicated I think, but it, but [00:11:07] there, there are some similarities. Certainly I, I can relate to what you’re saying there. Uh, I, I think the big thing for us is we’re just very different people and we always have been, and we’re both headstrong and we’re both like opinionated. [00:11:20] And so we’re very different, but we have that similarity, which means you’re going to clash, you know? [00:11:27] **Brett:** Yeah. [00:11:28] **Jeff:** Mm-hmm totally the. [00:11:30] **Brett:** Does this segue into a mental hor health corner? Pretty [00:11:33] well. [00:11:33] **Jeff:** Sure. But can I just say that, that, because I have post shower hair, [00:11:37] I’ve got kind of a KKI [00:11:38] from Greece thing going on with my [00:11:40] **Christina:** Kind kinda [00:11:42] **Jeff:** I’d [00:11:42] **Brett:** it’s pretty good. [00:11:42] **Jeff:** I mean, I love KKI. [00:11:44] In fact, my stepbrother [00:11:45] played KKI in Greece anyway. [00:11:46] **Christina:** oh, wow. [00:11:47] **Brett:** see it all full circle. I love [00:11:49] it. [00:11:50] **Jeff:** wow. Mental health corner. [00:11:52] **Brett:** So Jeff, [00:11:54] a theme song, [00:11:56] **Christina:** do, [00:11:57] **Brett:** you know, I [00:11:57] **Jeff:** would be like, [00:11:59] **Brett:** [00:12:00] so the, the software we’re using to record does have a soundboard and I’ve considered figuring that out. The thing is, if you don’t, if you don’t play a sound, when you [00:12:11] start, when it gives you the final tracks, it doesn’t start the soundtrack track until you play the first sound. [00:12:20] So nothing syncs up correctly. [00:12:23] **Jeff:** no weird. [00:12:24] **Brett:** So, if we were going to do it, we could easily just play the intro music that I usually insert in post. We could play the intro music, do the intro and then have a soundboard. And yeah, like, uh, transitions to sponsor reads transitions to mental health corner [00:12:42] or gratitude could all have [00:12:44] theme songs. [00:12:45] Um, and [00:12:47] and I kinda like the idea. I just haven’t gotten the technical aspects of it figured out [00:12:52] yet. [00:12:53] **Jeff:** All right. All right. Well, [00:12:55] **Christina:** Yeah, I’m kind of into it. I will say like, you’re the musician, uh, you two are the musicians like I’ll, I’ll [00:12:59] **Brett:** [00:13:00] Oh, we should get Aaron to pitch in and write theme songs for yeah. Friend of the show. Aaron [00:13:08] Dawson. [00:13:09] **Christina:** Yes. [00:13:10] Aaron we are just volunteering you now. Then we, we pay you [00:13:13] like, [00:13:14] we’re just volunteering [00:13:15] your, your time to, to, to do this, but yes, that would [00:13:18] **Brett:** Aaron is a very talented [00:13:19] musician. It would be, we could pair. [00:13:24] **Jeff:** Yeah, we’re rolling in money. [00:13:26] **Brett:** Yeah, [00:13:27] **Jeff:** Give us some of that [00:13:28] sweet sponsor [00:13:29] **Brett:** we got [00:13:30] three sponsors today. We [00:13:31] **Jeff:** give us some of that sponsor coin [00:13:33] **Brett:** some custom music. [00:13:36] Speaking [00:13:37] of should, should we do a [00:13:38] sponsor [00:13:38] read before? No, we’ll do, we’ll do mental [00:13:41] health corner and then we’ll just pile on the sponsor [00:13:44] reads. [00:13:45] **Christina:** we’ll just do sponsor sponsor, uh, sponsor central. I don’t [00:13:49] **Brett:** Yeah. Yeah. And [00:13:50] with, and we’ll make up some theme music as we go Yeah. All right. [00:13:54] All right. So [00:13:55] **Jeff:** God. What if we played island music all the way through the sponsor reads. Anyway. Sorry, go ahead. [00:13:59] I’m sorry. [00:13:59] **Brett:** is [00:14:00] island music is like, uh, [00:14:02] **Jeff:** Yeah. [00:14:03] **Christina:** Yeah, [00:14:03] yeah. [00:14:03] **Jeff:** drums. You got the yeah. [00:14:06] **Christina:** be some animal [00:14:06] crossing [00:14:07] type [00:14:07] **Jeff:** Little animal crossing vibe. Exactly. I always thought our podcast should be more [00:14:13] like animal [00:14:13] crossing. [00:14:14] **Christina:** I mean, same, to be honest, because animal crossing is the [00:14:17] best, but. [00:14:18] **Brett:** never played. [00:14:20] never played. [00:14:21] animal cross. [00:14:22] **Jeff:** Oh man. [00:14:23] **Brett:** I just play threes. That’s like, yeah, that’s it. That’s it. That’s ## [00:14:27] Mental Health Corner [00:14:27] **Brett:** all I [00:14:28] **Jeff:** all right. I got one. I can start mental health [00:14:30] corner up. [00:14:30] **Christina:** All right. You. [00:14:31] **Jeff:** I, I am just like, I don’t even have a, [00:14:34] uh, so I [00:14:35] take medication like [00:14:37] anybody at certain times [00:14:38] in the day, and I have [00:14:39] never successfully had a [00:14:42] system that has me taking my medication at the same time. In the same point of the day, every day. It just, I can’t get it right. [00:14:51] Not with reminders, not with pill organizers. It’s always I’m off by an hour every day or [00:14:56] **Brett:** Can I tell you about metae? [00:14:59] **Jeff:** Is this a [00:15:00] sponsor? Oh, [00:15:01] **Brett:** no. It’s this app that I use on my phone and, and I get notifications on my watch and on my phone that it’s time to take my meds. And if I don’t acknowledge it within. Half an hour. Like it sends them every 10 minutes and then after half an hour, it plays, it uses the emergency notifications to play the sound of a, to play the sound of a [00:15:23] pill bottle, shaking to let me know that I have completely missed my med window. [00:15:30] So I’m never more [00:15:31] than 30 minutes late [00:15:33] taking my meds. And it has worked for years now. [00:15:36] **Jeff:** So alerts and even those kinds of alerts don’t work on me. I, I just brush ’em off and get pissed off. They just pissed me off. Like, cuz the thing is, it’s not there’s there are no real [00:15:48] consequences to me taking my [00:15:50] meds a little late. Right. It’s just that what I would like to be doing is taking them and I’m told this helps taking them [00:15:56] consistently at the same point in day, you know? [00:15:59] [00:16:00] And, and like I, um, I have not, I took a, I used some app with my watch that did a similar thing like that and it, it worked some of the time, but not all the time. Cuz sometimes what happens to me and I don’t know if this is like a, some internal resistance to be worked out with my therapist, but sometimes what happens to me I’m like, no, not now. [00:16:18] I’m not gonna take my meds now I’m doing something else right [00:16:21] **Brett:** That’s so [00:16:22] **Jeff:** I don’t wanna be the guy that has to take meds right now. [00:16:26] that’s part of what must be going on in my head, [00:16:28] but [00:16:29] **Brett:** so so no app, no app can help you. [00:16:32] Is [00:16:32] **Jeff:** No man. No, it’s just like, you know, well maybe [00:16:34] **Brett:** re you. rebel against the very idea of a schedule. [00:16:39] **Jeff:** yeah. [00:16:40] **Brett:** Yeah. [00:16:41] **Jeff:** yeah. [00:16:42] **Christina:** can, okay. I can sort of understand that [00:16:43] cause I’m, I [00:16:44] can [00:16:44] be [00:16:44] similar, but I do have to wonder, I mean, okay. You’re saying that there’s not, [00:16:48] um, like consequences [00:16:51] or whatever, so I get that, uh, but is it. [00:16:55] Is it that like, it it’s too much effort for you to grab your pills then and [00:17:00] do it? Or, or what is it? [00:17:01] Because like, if, if like, if the pills were right there and you have like water right there, would you take it? What is it? Is it just being told you have to do it like, like what what’s what’s the hold up? Cause I would think, cuz I can be similar, but like if my pills are right there and if I’ve got water, then I’m, I’m gonna go ahead and do. [00:17:17] **Jeff:** Right, right. The big problem is in the daytime because I, I, I am very, even if I have a schedule I’m following my brain is very scattered through the day. Um, and, and even when I’m taking my ADHD meds, like I’m just all over the place. And so actually it’s very easy for me to go, oh, I gotta take my meds. [00:17:35] And cuz I do have a reminder at least once like, oh, I gotta take my meds. And then I just like totally forget for an hour that I haven’t taken them. And sometimes on weekends I can not take my meds until. Well in the midday, cause I just keep forgetting, but it’s like, do you know? I mean, for me, the way I’ve experienced, what I think is ADHD is like, it’s something that makes no logical fucking sense. [00:17:56] It’s like, how is it possible that I was going to do this [00:18:00] thing? And then I completely forgot I was going to do it until three hours later. Right. When I remembered, oh, right. I was like, how is that possible? Like it hurts my brain. Right. Cause I am, I am a systems person. Right. Like I do have systems and I really, I have a need to organize things and I’m quite good at organizing things. [00:18:16] But I have this part of my brain that just resists that or, or is totally unable to sort of come along. And, and that’s the part of me that I think causes me to take meds at different times. Night is different like at night because what I take makes me drowsy, um, Sometimes am like, it’s like, you know, it takes about 30 minutes for the meds to kick in. [00:18:35] And I maybe like it’s, it’s nine 30 or 10 30 or whatever. I’m like, well, I should take my meds, but I don’t know. I wanna be tired in a half hour. That’s another problem. So anyway, , [00:18:45] I [00:18:45] **Christina:** The night ones I can’t really help you with. But the other ones, I guess what I would say is like, what’s helped me cuz is, is just like making it as accessible as possible. Like, you know, if, if I know where I’m usually going to be, and then if an alarm goes off or whatnot, then [00:19:00] like it makes it that much harder for me to just ignore what I need to do. [00:19:03] I don’t know. [00:19:04] **Jeff:** Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, actually you’re making me realize I’m sitting here with my pill thing and I’m a half hour late on the [00:19:10] **Brett:** That’s the sound that Medisafe [00:19:12] **Jeff:** don’t I, segue to somebody else while I take those pills? [00:19:15] **Christina:** Yeah, I was gonna say, take your pills. [00:19:19] **Jeff:** else has some corner? Some corner talk. [00:19:22] **Brett:** I, uh, I can go. [00:19:23] **Christina:** Yeah, you [00:19:24] **Brett:** I, uh, So I had that like long period of what we, what we called hypomania. Um, and I’m now having a long period of hypo depression, where I’m just like, I’m sleeping too much. I’m having trouble getting going. I’m having trouble starting things, but not in this complete block kind of way that I’ve run into in the past. [00:19:52] Not in this, like I just can’t do anything. It just takes me a little extra work right now. And [00:20:00] honestly, [00:20:01] I can live with this, like, You know what I get, like when I’m stable and I’m like, oh my God, I miss being manic. And this is horrible. And I, I don’t, I don’t feel like I can do anything cuz I’m too stable. [00:20:14] Like if I can have just mild mania and then mild depression, I feel like I could, I could sustain this. I, I sh like this is absolutely not medical advice for [00:20:26] anyone, especially anyone suffering from bipolar. Like, don’t take me too seriously, [00:20:33] but like, I, I, can live with this. This is livable, [00:20:38] I think. [00:20:39] **Jeff:** I have a question for you this, this last streak without any, um, manic episodes or any real low episodes, was that the longest that you can remember? [00:20:51] **Brett:** Um, yeah, but I have a very short memory. I have like an ADHD memory and. I have stomach issues. [00:21:00] And when they start up, it would be really helpful to remember what I ate like two days before. But I don’t, I don’t remember. So for me, like the present is like all, all I really have. So yes. Um, the 3, 3, 4 months I went through of stability was the longest I can remember in my memory, but I also had two years where my ADHD meds got cut off. [00:21:32] And, uh, that, that led to [00:21:36] long periods of stability. There were still manic [00:21:39] and depressive [00:21:40] episodes in there, but I’m pretty sure during those [00:21:43] two years, I [00:21:44] probably had an equal amount of stability. Just it’s I don’t remember. [00:21:50] **Jeff:** I I ask because I, you know, having listened to you [00:21:54] kind of [00:21:54] check in on. Spell that, that, that, you know, those months that you [00:21:59] didn’t [00:22:00] have [00:22:00] any manic episodes in your starting to talk about how, um, you know, you, you sort of miss having a manic episode or it made you think of made you kind of feel like hints of desires for drugs that would make you feel high or manic. [00:22:15] And I, I was wondering at the time and wonder now, is that a, is that a phase of a long period of, um, no manic episodes that you might get to the other side of and, and go, oh, wait, I’m, I’m not, I’m not feeling as strongly that what is my identity without mania or, you know, cause that’s what I feel like I heard you saying is like, who am I without mania? [00:22:42] Right. [00:22:43] **Brett:** yeah. That’s accurate. I also, I don’t know [00:22:45] what what’s on the other side of that. [00:22:47] **Christina:** right. [00:22:48] **Jeff:** mm-hmm yeah, of course. Who, how could you know? Yeah. [00:22:53] **Brett:** but then I had a manic episode and it made me fucking happy. So I’m not complaining. [00:22:59] **Jeff:** Yeah. [00:23:00] Interesting. [00:23:00] **Christina:** Well, I think, [00:23:00] I think, I think, what it [00:23:01] is is like you’re used to it, right? Like, you know, you [00:23:04] know, the [00:23:04] mania, right? Like you, you. [00:23:06] **Jeff:** Yep. [00:23:06] **Brett:** the devil. I [00:23:07] **Christina:** It’s the w know, it’s predictable. [00:23:09] You you’ve found ways to [00:23:11] make it work for you in certain situations. It’s not [00:23:14] debilitating where you go into almost like a psychosis sort of thing. [00:23:17] Whereas some people who have bipolar do, right, like there, there, there mania episodes are not things that are, are useful at all and, and, and can be really, really dangerous, um, yours aren’t. And so if it’s not sustaining and it’s whatnot, like you almost also, I mean, if you’re honest with yourself, you probably enjoy the high a little bit. [00:23:38] Right. Like, [00:23:39] **Brett:** Oh, for sure. [00:23:40] **Christina:** right. So, so for you, I think it’s something, you know, that you understand, and then if you don’t have it, you wonder, okay, well, am I going to have the, the ability to be creative and to, to get things done and whatnot without it, right? Like, like what, what is it without. [00:23:58] **Brett:** What was, what was the, [00:24:00] there was a, I can’t remember if it was a show, it was Anne Hathaway as a bipolar. I think it was an episode of that. [00:24:07] **Christina:** Modern [00:24:07] **Brett:** Uh, modern love. Yeah. Yeah. Like I related to her in that show, I thought that was a spectacular, um, Example of the kind of bipolar I experience. Um, when I’m, when I’m manic writing a line of code that works gives me this huge dopamine burst and like, and then I’m away from my computer. [00:24:37] And all I wanna do is get back to my computer and write another line of code. And it is it’s highly productive and not at all dangerous, I’m not spending money. I’m not hurting relationships other than maybe not participating in them, but like it’s very productive and yeah, I’ve heard what other people go through with [00:25:00] mania. [00:25:00] I’ve seen it in other members of my family and I’m grateful that I don’t have that kind of psychosis and, um, binge spending and, uh, like destructive behavior. I just, I don’t have that. And for me, it, it just kind of. It works? [00:25:21] **Jeff:** Hmm. [00:25:23] **Brett:** No, I, I, I can’t, I can’t complain. I feel like I, it, El said it this morning. Like my career is kind of built on [00:25:34] my bipolar, like, everything that I have is the result of, of things that I’ve accomplished and things that I’ve done as a result of mania. [00:25:45] And, and we talked about this, like how, I don’t know yeah. Who, who I [00:25:48] am without it. Um, and, and, and Christina was pretty insistent that, [00:25:55] you know, I am a perfectly productive human being [00:26:00] without mania. I have, I have not proven [00:26:03] that [00:26:03] **Christina:** Well, you are perfectly productive [00:26:04] It might not be [00:26:05] the same though. I’m just saying, like, I’m not say [00:26:08] **Jeff:** not excessively productive, [00:26:09] **Christina:** I’m not, I’m not, [00:26:10] I’m not saying that you, I, I’m [00:26:11] not saying that, [00:26:11] that like, like I just say this from my own experiences of being like, who am I, if I don’t have the depression and, and whatnot, like you are still you and you can still get things done and you’re still creative and whatnot, but it’s not going to be the same. [00:26:25] Like, and, and now it doesn’t seem like it’s something you’ve had to worry about because you have this. But I, I do always worry anytime anybody says, and I, I worry about myself when I say these things like, who am I without X? Because that becomes like an existential question. And, and I think that, that a lot of times we, we assu we, we make correlations between things that we’ve always known about ourselves and, and give them credit for things that they shouldn’t get credit. [00:26:54] **Brett:** I read this really fun. It was a collect, it was a, an Instagram [00:27:00] story, but it was all of these collections of writings about how we pick up. Aspects of our personality from people we love even just for a heartbeat. And, and if you take away all of the heartbreak in your life, you’re left with an emptiness. [00:27:21] Not, not that you are less of a person, but if you take out all of the heartbreak, you’re left with these voids that people try to fill with more love and more drugs and, and more work. Um, and it’s it really made, this is, this is irrelevant to what you were just saying. just like something about this, not knowing who you are without X. [00:27:46] Like it made me realize, yeah, like I have picked up some affectation or some belief or something that gives me pleasure from every relationship I’ve ever had or been [00:27:57] in whether sexual [00:28:00] or [00:28:00] romantic or just friendship. Um, and those have all become like a real part of me. [00:28:07] Like they definitely add up over time. [00:28:10] **Christina:** One of my. [00:28:11] **Jeff:** or relationship with drugs, relationship [00:28:13] with mental health. [00:28:14] **Brett:** absolutely. [00:28:15] **Christina:** my favorite quotes from one of my favorite [00:28:16] books ever, although the book [00:28:18] hasn’t aged particularly well, but I still love it. Um, invisible monsters by, by Chuck, uh, Paul check, um, the, the, the quote is, uh, nothing of me is original. I’m the combined effort of everyone I’ve ever known. [00:28:30] **Brett:** Yeah, [00:28:31] exactly. That’s [00:28:32] **Christina:** And I, And I, love that. [00:28:33] So the scene is that the two main characters are writing or they’re actually at the top above the, um, [00:28:40] um, Seattle where I live the freaking the tower. What is it? You know, the the [00:28:44] stupid, [00:28:45] **Brett:** the [00:28:46] **Christina:** space needle. Thank you. [00:28:47] **Jeff:** the needle of [00:28:48] **Christina:** Yes, they’re on top of the space needle and they’re writing these postcards and that, that have these things, um, uh, you, I think they like distributing them out or whatever, but, but they write these things down. [00:28:57] And anyway, I think that some of it is. [00:29:00] [00:29:01] It’s supposed to be kind of trite, but I, I love that quote. Anyway, there’s also one that’s like when we don’t know who to hate, we hate ourselves. Um, and, uh, but, but, but you know, nothing of me is original line, the combined effort of everyone I’ve ever known. I that’s. [00:29:15] I think about that quote, when you say that, cuz I feel a similar way. I think that that’s, that’s probably universally true for a lot of people, you know? [00:29:22] **Brett:** Yeah, [00:29:22] **Jeff:** Everyone they’ve ever known. I mean, it’s kind of this infinite, you know, it’s just really quite beautiful. [00:29:28] **Brett:** no, I, I absolutely think that’s true of every single human being. I think that’s just how, [00:29:34] uh, the psyche and relationships work. [00:29:39] **Jeff:** Yeah. [00:29:39] **Brett:** anyway, Christina, your turn. [00:29:42] **Christina:** So, um, I [00:29:43] guess, so I’ve been with my [00:29:44] parents for a week and, um, and, [00:29:47] I’m going back [00:29:47] on Monday and it’s been really nice to be here. uh, the the dogs have had some, like my parents’ dog has had some [00:29:53] health, uh, [00:29:54] uh, drama. Um, he’s [00:29:56] okay. Fortunately, but that’s led distress. Um, [00:30:00] and, uh, my mom, ironically, it’s been interesting. [00:30:05] So my mom’s, you know, she’s retired, she’s a therapist and I’ve had to kind of play therapist for her this week. A little bit more of just a sounding board. And I credit this podcast a lot with it. I think that I have like better insights into some things, but she was seeing this doctor she’s gonna get a different, um, internal medicine doctor, because this doctor is clearly out of her mind. [00:30:24] Like what it is is this doctor I’m sure is fine, but doesn’t know her. And my mom is high strung. And my mom is like very type a and my mom is like kind of a high keyed person, but so she goes in and she’s read these things on her chart because they put everything on the chart before she goes in and she’s reading the stuff that she understands enough of to be dangerous, but doesn’t get all the context up and it’s freaking out. [00:30:47] And then the, the doctor, her first response is, oh, you clearly have an anxiety disorder. So I’m gonna put you on Prozac or I’m gonna put you on other stuff without even knowing her. And then my mom’s like, I’m, [00:31:00] I’m not going on this. And then she’s like, oh, well you need this, this and this, you know? And just like being very dismissive, very kind of ageist also. [00:31:07] And so I was just like, Yeah, you probably are OCD mom. Yes. You do. Probably could benefit from anxiety things, but you’re 75 and you’ve managed this while your entire life, and this is not going to be helpful for you at this point. Like, you know, like I I’ve dealt with a lot of, kind of my issues because I’ve had 20 plus years of therapy. [00:31:27] It’s different. Right. Like I, you know, you have managed, you don’t need this, so it’s, but it’s sort of been interesting talking to my mom because in some ways it is sort of like looking at almost like a mirrored version of myself, you know what I mean? Like I’m like, I’m like, oh, this is where I get a lot of my fucked up issues. [00:31:47] Um, and, and I mean that in the best way possible, cause my mom is the best person in the world, but, but yeah, that’s that, that’s sort of been interesting. [00:31:56] **Jeff:** home in the [00:31:56] **Christina:** Yep. [00:31:58] **Brett:** Yeah, I I’ve [00:32:00] become, um, convinced that my father has ADHD, like has always had ADHD and [00:32:06] **Jeff:** friend of the show. Brett’s father. [00:32:08] **Brett:** Yeah. Like I thought [00:32:09] I thought it would be interesting to see what he would be like now [00:32:13] if it, if his ADHD [00:32:15] were treated, um, but also he’s in his seventies and [00:32:20] he’s retired and he’s done fine. His whole [00:32:23] **Christina:** That’s the thing, right? [00:32:24] **Brett:** career. [00:32:25] And like, what’s the point, [00:32:27] **Christina:** Well, that, that’s sort of the problem, right? It’s kind of like, yeah, [00:32:30] you’ve, you’ve made this work. like, [00:32:31] what are, what are you, what are you going to do? You [00:32:33] know? I mean, [00:32:34] also, is it a good idea to give [00:32:36] people in their seventies? Amphetamines? Probably not. Right. [00:32:39] Like, [00:32:42] You know what I mean? [00:32:42] Like my, my dad is definitely ADHD and I don’t think he ever went on Adderall or anything with it, but he definitely is, but also like found ways to cope and, and it’s, you can be kind of maybe sad to think, well, wow. Maybe their life or other things would’ve been better if they’d had access to things. But at the same time, it’s also a [00:33:00] little bit affirming to know, you know, and this isn’t true for everyone. [00:33:03] Cause everybody has things in different degrees, but like, okay, you, you can, you know, survive slash thrive slash whatever, without these things. If, if you have to [00:33:13] **Jeff:** right, [00:33:14] **Brett:** Can I, can I share an interesting note that is only marginally related? Um, a as I want to do, um, a recent peer reviewed study has shown that people suffering from ADHD do not have a lack of dopamine. We just have we over process. Um, and serotonin, I believe [00:33:41] like we get our, our normal amounts of serotonin and [00:33:47] dopamine from everyday life, but our receptors eat it up way faster than anyone else. [00:33:55] **Jeff:** I mean it I’m gonna peer review That, [00:33:57] right now. That, that, that has just like a [00:34:00] logic to it [00:34:00] that I really makes [00:34:01] **Brett:** So which means, which means like we, we treat it with medications that increase things like dopamine, but if we could instead treat it by altering the receptors to behave in a more normal way, we could treat ADHD without stimulants, which is it’s [00:34:24] it. It’s interesting to me. I, I do find with [00:34:27] stimulants, I think they’re a great treatment, but [00:34:30] if, if you could treat [00:34:33] ADHD without stimulants, that [00:34:34] could [00:34:34] be, that could be [00:34:36] groundbreaking. [00:34:38] **Jeff:** Hm. [00:34:38] **Christina:** it could be great, right? Like it could be really good cuz I, I think that there are downsides to like the, the stimulant stuff, right? Like there are some very real things so that [00:34:47] **Brett:** Especially, especially in young [00:34:49] **Christina:** I was gonna say, especially in young kids and especially, I think in people who might be predisposed towards, you know, addiction and other things, and people who don’t want their hearts to explode and all kinds of stuff, [00:34:58] **Brett:** Sure. [00:34:59] **Christina:** you know, like, [00:35:00] yeah, that, that could be amazing. [00:35:01] I hope that they do more research on that. And I hope that, that the, they like, they’re more, you know, peer reviews at the peer review thing, like to figure stuff out. Like, it’d be really good to see. [00:35:10] **Brett:** in recent years it has become so difficult to get stimulants and it has become, uh, such a taboo for a doctor to prescribe stimulants to anyone of any age. And if ADHD treatment could move [00:35:25] beyond the requirement [00:35:28] of, you know, schedule one schedule two drugs, [00:35:32] then. Then we might see a broader treatment of ADHD, especially in vulnerable populations. [00:35:40] **Christina:** Yeah, that, that, that’s [00:35:41] actually very true. And actually, if I can go on one rant real [00:35:44] quick, before we go into sponsor, uh, central sponsor island. Okay. So something changed actually talking about ADHD stuff, because I had to, it was a pain [00:35:51] in the ass. So right before I left Seattle, like I went to get my meds filled and this was like August [00:35:58] 1st. And I went [00:36:00] to get like a refill of, of, of my medication and they couldn’t fill it because on July 26th, The DEA changed a law where they had previously allowed doctors to, or pharmacies to add your address birthday or whatever, to your prescription manually. Now your doctor has to write it in their own hand. [00:36:23] **Jeff:** Oh, yeah. You mentioned this last [00:36:24] **Christina:** Oh, I mentioned this last week. Yeah. Well, I’m gonna write about it again because [00:36:27] **Jeff:** it’s crazy. [00:36:28] **Christina:** nuts. And then I had to, because it was a pain in the ass for me to then get my, my stuff filled this week. Like I, my, my shrink mailed it to my house. It was fine. My parents’ house. It was fine. But then, you know, it was a problem of like finding a pharmacy that had the number of things in stock. [00:36:43] And then you can’t call like, like the pharmacies can’t call internally to find out if the other ones had the drugs, you have to actually ask the patient, call all the different Walgreens to find out who has the thing in stock. [00:36:56] **Jeff:** Ugh. [00:36:57] **Christina:** So that’s, that’s why continuation rant from last [00:37:00] week. I’m sorry. I forgot that. [00:37:01] I, I forgot that. I mentioned [00:37:02] **Jeff:** No. Well, no. And it’s, it’s just, I mean, I had actually forgotten about that detail and it’s something that I feel like has gotta have a lot of people in your situation [00:37:12] **Christina:** Yeah. And, and so I guess the update from that, cause we didn’t, uh, I, we didn’t talk last week or whatever was that I talked to my shrink, he didn’t know until the 26th either. So the doctors didn’t even know, like they, they, they BA they made this change and didn’t bother to tell anyone who could’ve been impacted. [00:37:26] Right. Like I was annoyed. I was like, well, it would’ve been nice if Walgreens or whoever had like, emailed me to say, this is updated. He’s like, yeah, it would’ve been nice. Doctors found out too. It’s like, no fucking shit. Like what the hell you’re gonna make this massive change, which is going to affect tons of people. [00:37:42] And then like, you know, if you see a doctor who can, like, if you’re in the same state and they can transfer to electronically, like that’s fine, but I’m not in the same state. And that’s, especially with all the COVID stuff and people doing virtual appointments, that’s [00:37:54] not uncommon. Right. So. [00:37:56] **Jeff:** Right, right. Ugh. [00:38:00] That is [00:38:00] maddening. [00:38:02] **Brett:** Almost leads into our first sponsor. [00:38:05] **Jeff:** Welcome to sponsor island. I’d like to [00:38:08] take you over [00:38:09] **Brett:** what should our theme music be? She’s like she says some dude beat boxing [00:38:13] **Christina:** Yeah, exactly. [00:38:15] **Brett:** with the like, [00:38:16] **Christina:** Sponsor spot, spot, spot. Yeah. [00:38:19] **Jeff:** You could do like an underwater sponsor read if you ever line the [00:38:25] **Christina:** Oh, I like it. I like. [00:38:29] **Jeff:** I’m sure they’ll be fine with that. ## [00:38:33] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:38:33] **Christina:** All right. Well, this episode is brought to you by Z doc. If your doctor can recite every line from Ferris jeweler’s day off as, as, uh, as Jeff was just saying, but can’t remember your name, viewer viewer. It is time to get a new doctor with Zoc and Zoc makes it easy to find quality doctors in your network and in your neighborhood. [00:38:55] Plus with real verified patient reviews, you can find the right doctor for you. One [00:39:00] that actually remembers your name and doesn’t just call you like Simone or something. Zoc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance and are available when you need them on Zoc. [00:39:12] You can find every specialist under the sun, whether you’re trying to straighten out those teeth, fix Nicky back, get that mold checked. Anything else? Z doc has you covered Z doc’s mobile app is as easy as ordering a ride to a restaurant or getting delivery to your house search find and book doctors with a few taps, find review, find and review. [00:39:32] Local doctors read verified patient reviews from real people who make real appointments. Now, when you walk into that doctor’s office, you’re all set to see someone in your network who gets you go to zoc.com to find the doctor that’s right for you and book an appointment in person or remotely that works for you on your schedule every month. [00:39:51] Millions of people use Zocdoc. I’m one of them. I’ve used them for years. I’m actually about to use them, uh, to find a gastroenterologist because I need to have [00:40:00] some, I think I might have an ulcer, so I’m gonna be using Zoc for that. It’s definitely my go-to whenever I need to find and book a quality doctor. [00:40:07] Go to zoc.com/ Overtired and download the Zoc app for free. [00:40:13] Then start your search for a top read doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s Zoc do [00:40:20] c.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. [00:40:27] **Brett:** God damn. That was [00:40:28] **Jeff:** you everybody. Thank you. Now we’d like to walk you over to the other side of the island. Simply go ahead, [00:40:34] **Brett:** The today’s episode [00:40:36] is brought to you by simply safe. Here’s a question. Is there anything that matters ## [00:40:41] Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:40:41] **Brett:** more than the safety of you [00:40:42] and [00:40:42] your loved ones? Of course not. So isn’t it strange that many home security companies don’t act that way. This is why we use and trust simply safe home security. Their advanced security technology helps us sleep at night and they always put our family’s safety [00:41:00] first. [00:41:00] Here’s why I love it with 24 7 professional monitor. Simply safes agents call you the moment. A threat is detected and dispatch police or first responders in an emergency. Even if you’re not home or can’t be reached simply safes monitoring, agent Tru uh, monitoring agents truly care about your wellbeing and are highly trained to help you keep calm and safe during stressful situations. [00:41:25] Staying on the line with you until help arrives. Simply saves customer first policies. Make sure you are taken care of with affordable plans, starting at less than $1 a day and no long term contract or hidden fees, because feeling safe at home shouldn’t break the bank. Customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash Overtired. [00:41:49] Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/ Overtired. That’s S I M [00:42:00] P L I S a E slash Overtired. And now, and now to Jeff [00:42:07] of tax river, [00:42:09] **Jeff:** but there’s no copy. [00:42:11] **Brett:** what there [00:42:12] is, it’s literally in the it. [00:42:14] **Jeff:** Oh, wait. Where? [00:42:16] **Christina:** I don’t see either. [00:42:18] **Brett:** All right. So let me tell you about [00:42:20] tax expander because apparently Quip is failing [00:42:23] us. [00:42:23] **Jeff:** Oh, [00:42:24] Oh, oh, I, I can, maybe I can change the, uh, [00:42:26] font. It’s all white. [00:42:28] **Brett:** Oh, [00:42:28] **Christina:** Oh, it is all white. Yeah, it is. [00:42:30] **Brett:** I did. I changed it white because I use, I use, Uh, [00:42:35] Quip in dark [00:42:36] **Christina:** So this is where Quip is just a failure. [00:42:40] **Brett:** Quip Quip, not today’s episode is not brought to [00:42:43] **Christina:** Absolutely not. [00:42:46] **Jeff:** is not brought to you my quick [00:42:47] time. God damnit. Let’s just do a whole [00:42:51] episode of who’s not sponsoring our show. [00:42:53] **Christina:** not. [00:42:54] Quip. Salesforce has messed that shit up [00:42:56] **Jeff:** Okay. Sorry. I was in the, I was over there in [00:43:00] the outhouse, the Tiki outhouse [00:43:01] on, on sponsor [00:43:02] island. And [00:43:02] **Brett:** I gotta tell you when I did the, the Q and [00:43:05] a, uh, panel at max stock, uh, when we had Mike Rose up on stage, we asked, so what exactly does Salesforce do? He gave ape. Like he, he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. And I gotta say I came out of it. Still not understanding what Salesforce does. [00:43:26] I do not know what Salesforce is or does. [00:43:29] **Christina:** we don’t work in sales or with customer acquisition [00:43:31] stuff. If we did, we [00:43:32] would definitely use it as everyone does. But yes. [00:43:39] **Brett:** There’s there’s a huge building for the anyway. Jeff, ## [00:43:43] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:43:43] **Jeff:** All right. All right. All right. I would like to tell you all about text expander. What would you do with more hours every month? Oh my goodness. That could be the rest of the podcast. Uh, repetitive typing, little mistakes, searching for answers. They’re all taking precious time away from you, killing you with tiny [00:44:00] knives, stabbing, stabbing you and your team with text expander. [00:44:04] You can take back your time so that you can focus on what matters most in your business. With text expander, you and your team can keep your message consistent, save time and be more productive. Be accurate every time. The way we work is changing rapidly. Make work happen wherever you are by saying more in less time and with less effort using text expander, you’ll never need to copy and paste repetitive responses. [00:44:31] Again. With text expander. Your knowledge will always be at your fingertips with a quick search or abbreviation. Here’s how it works. Drop your commonly used content into a text expander snippet and give it an abbreviation. Share your snippet with your entire team. Just type a few characters to trigger your snippet and the content expands anywhere you type it is that easy text expander is available on Mac windows, Chrome, iPhone iPad windows [00:45:00] 95, uh, dos. [00:45:01] They got it on dos six. Um, over Overtired listeners get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com/podcast. [00:45:12] To learn more about text expander. [00:45:16] **Brett:** Awesome. Can we, can we talk about, we haven’t talked about media for some [00:45:21] **Christina:** I know let’s talk about it. Let’s get into. [00:45:23] **Jeff:** mixed media [00:45:24] **Brett:** so there’s this show? Uh, I just found it. on, was it Hulu? ## [00:45:30] Speaking of Bears [00:45:30] **Brett:** I think, yeah. Hulu Hulu a couple weeks [00:45:33] ago. Yes exactly. An at that show on Hulu called the [00:45:37] bear. And I watched the first episode. It’s about, it’s about a restaurant and it was about it’s about the kitchen and the chef’s lives. [00:45:48] And it was so stressful that I did [00:45:51] **Jeff:** So [00:45:52] **Brett:** I did not [00:45:53] think I could stick with it. And, and I watched the first episode. I’m like, this is just, it’s too much yelling, too much stress [00:46:00] and I’m kind of done, but it got under my skin. And by 24 hours [00:46:06] later, I was like, I need to see what happens next. And I, within a week I had finished up season one of the bear and I am delighted to find out season two is already confirmed. [00:46:20] Um, Jeff, I know you just finished it. What was your impression of the [00:46:24] **Jeff:** Well, yeah, just to say that the show what’s what’s interesting about this show is, um, and there have been shows in the past that take place in the kitchen that handle food and food service and restaurant life and whatever else. This one is super interesting because it’s the, the, the star of this show, the chef was, you know, running one of the best restaurants in the world in New York city and came from a family that ran like an Italian beef, um, joint in Chicago and just a little tiny hole in the wall place that, you know, everyone’s loyal to and has been going to since, you know, before their, you know, their dad went before them, their mom, before that, whatever it’s like [00:47:00] got history, um, in this little corner of Chicago, the owner of that particular re. [00:47:06] Is this chef’s brother and he commits suicide and, and leaves the restaurant to his brother who he had never allowed to work there. And so his brother leaves his life in New York and comes to this family Italian beef place, like pretty convinced he can save it, um, but is really just like grinding through his grief basically in kitchen life. [00:47:28] And, and it is, it is all close shot. The kitchen is not large, cuz it’s like a little Italian beef place. Um, there is so much, um, just so there are so many types of people in this tiny [00:47:42] kitchen. Um, so many little stories, so [00:47:46] much energy it’s also close shot It can be really overwhelming. Even after that first episode, I feel like there are episodes that reach a kind of climax in these close shots in this small [00:47:56] space that can be kind [00:47:57] of hard to take, but you’re so in love [00:48:00] with the [00:48:00] characters [00:48:01] **Brett:** There was even a, there was even a single shot episode. I can’t remember which one it was, but [00:48:05] **Jeff:** oh, was [00:48:06] **Brett:** that was pretty much one take, [00:48:07] **Jeff:** I didn’t notice that that’s [00:48:09] **Brett:** I, I can’t remember which episode it was or I would tell you, um, I did find out that [00:48:15] beef sales in Chicago, we’re up in a statistically significant fashion. [00:48:23] After, [00:48:24] after this show aired on Hulu. [00:48:26] **Christina:** that’s hilarious. [00:48:28] **Jeff:** That’s amazing. Well, of course, so here’s something that like, I, that we could all kind of connect around. What I loved about this show is that I didn’t know who any of these people were as actors and they were all phenomenal. It’s a perfect cast to the person. There’s not a weak link in the entire thing. [00:48:46] And, and it is so also wonderful to watch a show about a kitchen, where there are no really beautiful people. And, and the thing that’s driven me nuts. My wife talks about this all the time, especially in [00:49:00] kitchen movies and shows you always have some beautiful woman, uh, love interest or, or sous [00:49:07] chef. And then this like totally dopey dude. [00:49:10] And, and that’s like a thing that happens [00:49:12] in movies. Generally, the [00:49:13] dudes can be dopey. [00:49:14] but the women can’t be dopey. Right. And I’m not saying there was anybody [00:49:17] dopey in this thing, but there were no, just like there were no [00:49:20] beauties. [00:49:21] **Brett:** a straight up Midwestern cast. [00:49:24] **Jeff:** It [00:49:24] was lovely. [00:49:25] **Brett:** Cousin, the cousin, the, the super macho, like the guy that you, the character development of his character was outstanding. Like I have never hated and loved someone simultaneously. Uh, well, not never, but it’s been a long time in a TV show since I have had so much spite and compassion for a single charact. [00:49:52] Um, he was, it was, it’s an outstanding show. And like, like Jeff said, like every character in it has a [00:50:00] story and, and you, you find yourself wanting to see how every story turns out and there’s no way they could wrap up like every story with a neat little bow. Uh, they do an amazing job, uh, of wrapping up the season without, without having to like tie a bow on everything. [00:50:19] Uh, they come up with a way to finish the season, uh, kind of felt like they weren’t sure they were gonna get another season. It felt like they needed. [00:50:29] **Jeff:** how it ended. [00:50:30] **Brett:** Yeah. they needed to end the show and I’m, I’m very excited to see the next phase because they kind of, they, they surpassed the initial hurdles, like the whole time. [00:50:42] You’re like, ah, I, I can’t wait to see this restaurant succeed, but there’s no fucking way that by the end of the season that restaurant’s gonna succeed, um, it’s [00:50:53] **Jeff:** not really what restaurants [00:50:54] **Brett:** it’s going to survive. And that is by the end. That’s what you’re cheering for is for the restaurant to [00:51:00] survive. [00:51:00] And it’s [00:51:01] **Jeff:** you’re watching a Muppets, it’s got a Muppets movie kind of architecture to it where like this isn’t spoiling anything early on. They get a bad rating from the health department and you, you you’re like, oh, I get it. I’m in a Mt. Snoopy. [00:51:13] Now we we’re gonna spend the rest of the time, figuring out how to get that, you know, but it’s, that’s not what it is. [00:51:18] And that’s just such a beautiful thing. And also, I just have to say, I [00:51:21] kind of wish more shows that were not [00:51:23] guaranteed a [00:51:23] second season would, would wrap as if they weren’t guaranteed a second [00:51:26] season. Cuz I’ve been burned a few times and it makes me so, I mean, I like live with the shows in me that were canceled too early. [00:51:33] Right. Like can’t stand it. [00:51:37] **Brett:** So you’re gonna watch it, Christina. [00:51:39] **Jeff:** Netflix. [00:51:40] **Christina:** I’m gonna watch this. Actually. It’s [00:51:41] funny, cuz my friend Alex was telling me about this. Her brother works in the restaurant industry and uh, I think it was like maybe like too close for comfort in some ways there. I uh, I, I [00:51:51] definitely am going to watch this. So [00:51:53] you both have convinced me. I’m very [00:51:54] excited to watch this now. [00:51:55] **Brett:** I, I [00:51:56] have a friend who’s a head chef at a restaurant and said [00:52:00] that it was the most realistic portrayal of an actual kitchen that he’s ever seen. [00:52:07] **Christina:** Yeah. Um, hearing about it, it reminds me of the book a little bit, um, that Anthony Bourdain’s, um, uh, book a kitchen confidential, uh, which became a TV series, which did not last very long with the, with Bradley Cooper actually. Um, and, uh, it was on Fox. It was sitcom and it didn’t last very long, but the book, uh, kitchen confidential was my introduction to Anthony Bourdain. [00:52:29] Um, probably was a lot of peoples cuz I mean, I was, I was 18. So I, there, there was no reason for me to know who he was other [00:52:37] than that [00:52:37] book. Um, but that book is, is really great and the audible [00:52:41] version he reads and, and it’s, it’s great to kind of hear his take on all that stuff, but um, I’m, I’m looking forward to watching this now. Thank you very much for the wreck. [00:52:51] **Brett:** yeah, no, that is absolutely I’m. I’m proud to give you that recommendation. My other show on the list is Sandman, which [00:53:00] apparently you guys aren’t the Neil Gayman fans that I am [00:53:04] **Christina:** Well, I am, I am. I just haven’t had time. I’ve just been, I’ve just been busy. [00:53:08] **Brett:** Yeah, this is, I’m not judging. I’m [00:53:10] not judging. I just like, for me, like I [00:53:14] counted the days until the release of Sam and I headed off by a week in [00:53:18] my [00:53:18] head. [00:53:19] **Jeff:** Hm. [00:53:20] **Brett:** like that Friday came around and I was devastated. That was not out for a whole nother week. Um, it is, it is extremely well done. If you have read the comics, you will be astounded by how, how well they translated, uh, the sand artwork and the sand plot line to the big screen, or, you know, whatever size screen you have in your apartment. [00:53:50] Um, but even if you haven’t read the books, it still, it retains all of the magic of Neil Gayman storytelling. [00:54:00] Um, I will, I will wait and we’ll see if you guys, uh, find the time to watch it and then we can discuss further, but I will say it is an outstanding adaptation of comic to screen. [00:54:12] **Christina:** Okay. I’m excited about this thing, cuz these are [00:54:14] always the questions that you have, [00:54:15] right? Like that, you have like, okay, how much are they gonna mess this [00:54:17] up or do this? Right. So I’m glad to hear that, uh, that you’re saying that, that they’ve done this right. [00:54:21] **Brett:** Well, and Neil Gaman was integral in [00:54:24] the creation of this [00:54:25] **Christina:** Yes. Which, which, which is [00:54:26] always a good sign, but doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s always going to be good. [00:54:31] **Brett:** it’s thus far, uh, American gods, uh, good omens. Like the stuff that Neil Gaman has actually had a hand in [00:54:40] **Christina:** Agreed. American gods is [00:54:41] **Brett:** out spectacular. Yeah. Great stuff. But anyway, that we, we, [00:54:48] kinda mental health and TV, we just, we filled an hour, [00:54:53] **Jeff:** can I say one last thing [00:54:54] about [00:54:54] **Brett:** please. Please do. Oh [00:54:56] **Jeff:** don’t have, I don’t have much insight in being a chef, but I was a dishwasher [00:55:00] from age 16 to about age 23. [00:55:03] **Brett:** Jesus. [00:55:04] **Jeff:** And, um, I mean, among other things, as in punk rock band and modes and lawns. Nope. None at that point. Um, [00:55:14] anyway, uh, there’s a point where they’re loosely, they’re lightly considering a, a new dish that has risotto in it. [00:55:21] And one of the, one of the things the chef says to shoot it down is that the dishwashers would be pissed about the bands. And I was like, yes. gave the dishwashers some just a little [00:55:32] **Christina:** The little bit you’re you’re like, yes, we will be pissed about the pans because you’re [00:55:35] **Jeff:** You’re like, this is realistic. [00:55:36] **Christina:** like, you’re like this, this is burning everything to the sides. All, all these rice, all, all these rice grains are making it a [00:55:42] pain in the ass to scour. [00:55:44] **Jeff:** Yep. God. Right. [00:55:47] Anyhow. [00:55:48] **Brett:** Okay. You guys got another 10 minutes in you. [00:55:51] **Christina:** Yep. [00:55:52] **Jeff:** yeah, [00:55:52] **Brett:** All right. Okay. Aptitude, who wants to start? ## [00:55:56] Grapptitude [00:55:56] **Jeff:** I could start. I feel like there’s always one of us [00:55:58] that [00:55:58] needs other [00:55:59] **Christina:** Yeah. I was gonna say, [00:56:00] I definitely [00:56:00] **Jeff:** out what we’re gonna [00:56:01] **Christina:** I definitely need you [00:56:01] **Jeff:** I’ve totally been there. I’ve totally been [00:56:03] there. [00:56:04] so I’m, I’m uh, I I’m choosing name man [00:56:08] by many [00:56:09] **Brett:** didn’t you have re I feel like we I feel like you did this, or you did reamer. [00:56:15] **Jeff:** No, one of us did Moom in terms of many tricks, but I’ve, I don’t, I may have done this. I’m worried about that. I had done it, but [00:56:23] **Brett:** we made that rule. We can repeat [00:56:25] **Jeff:** been using it. And so name Mangler is just this lovely interface for re like batch reaming files. And, and you have, you know, similar to, to like Hazel, you have just a ton of different options for how, how it’s going to act on a file name based on whatever conditions you set and what, the reason I brought it up this week is I’m trying to come up with a naming convention for a project. [00:56:46] And, um, and I love using name Mangler to play around with naming conventions, cuz I feel like you can actually stress test a naming convention by using name Mangler, to rename just a bunch of, you know, sample files that you’re [00:57:00] gonna use in a project and see how it all look looks. And so I love it. I love using name Mangler. [00:57:05] Um, I use it all the time. I know you can do this programmatically. I’ve done that too. Um, but I actually just love the interface. Like it’s just a wonderful interface and it makes me think it actually, the interface itself makes me think more critically about. How I’m going to [00:57:21] handle a name change. And like, I’m just someone takes that shit really seriously. [00:57:25] Like [00:57:25] naming conventions really matters. I just don’t have one naming convention that always applies to every project. And so I was in that situation. [00:57:33] **Brett:** I am pretty adept at renaming files, like from the command line, uh, coming up with little loops and scripts that will rename files, but nothing is better than an interface that lets you see exactly like set up. You’re like here. Yeah, exactly. Set up. Like, am I gonna do a red X replace? Am I gonna change extension? [00:57:56] Am I gonna append a sequential number and like set all that up and then [00:58:00] see a preview of how it’s going to affect all your files and then just hit the run button [00:58:04] and, and, [00:58:05] you’re done. And there are multiple apps that will do this name. Mangler is among the top definitely, uh, available apps. Um, uh, fire, uh, forklift has, has some renaming capability built in, but, but name Mangler is classic and, and top-notch great. [00:58:23] Pick. [00:58:24] **Jeff:** Yeah, [00:58:26] **Brett:** All right. Speaking of Hazel, that’s actually my pick for the week. Um, uh, Hazel is an app, a Mac app that, uh, watches for file and directory changes, and then can act on those files and you can build, uh, kind of, um, sec sequences using a graphical interface, uh, to act on those files and perform anything you want to perform. [00:58:57] For example, if I save [00:59:00] an image file to my desktop, that contains 2% signs, um, it will then process that image, uh, in, in various ways. So I can save, um, header image percent percent. Oh dot P G and that will, uh, optimize the image and create a half size version of it and name one of them at two X. Um, if I put a C percent percent, OHC, it’ll convert it to JPEG. [00:59:33] Um, and this is all like scripting that I’ve done, but it, it means that if I wanna prepare an image for use on the web, I can just add percent percent to the name. And, uh, Jeff and I have done some automation, uh, for his, his kind of day job, uh, that is very reliant on, uh, tags and, and devices being plugged in to, uh, automate, uh, [01:00:00] processes in kind of the interview workflow. [01:00:02] And Hazel is, there’s nothing. There’s nothing else that compares. There’s no other app that does what Hazel does. And, and I think it’s definitely worth mentioning. [01:00:14] **Jeff:** Awesome. I love Hazel. [01:00:16] **Christina:** Kind of speaking of scripting things and automation stuff. My pick this week is fast scripts, uh, from a friend Daniel, Jacque. I, uh, I love this app. It’s kind of like a supercharged version of. Of kind of your apples scripts sort of thing. And if you’re somebody who runs a lot of scripts in a lot of places, it can be really, really good. [01:00:40] And it’s just an app that, um, I, uh, I always [01:00:45] wanna get more into scripting than I am, and this is the, the app [01:00:48] that. [01:00:48] kind of can probably get me there, the closest of anything. And, uh, and I like how it’s, it’s a library works. I like how, um, the, the, the keyboard shortcuts, [01:00:59] um, [01:00:59] **Brett:** You can add [01:01:00] a keyboard shortcut to every one of your scripts. It’s [01:01:03] **Christina:** It is beautiful the way that it, that it can like, do like the, the, the context switching is really, really good. [01:01:09] Um, and then what’s nice about it too, is that it’ll work with like apple script or with like automate our workflows. [01:01:15] Like, it it’ll work like [01:01:16] with [01:01:17] whatever kind of scripting thing you’re, you’re wanting to work with. So I’m, I’m a really, really big. [01:01:22] **Brett:** I wonder if, they, I don’t know if he’s integrated shortcuts into it [01:01:26] **Christina:** I don’t think he has, but I hope that [01:01:28] he will. I think that that would be awesome. [01:01:30] I’m sure he will [01:01:31] **Brett:** joke. It’s a genius. He’ll he’ll he’ll if, if it’s doable, he’ll make [01:01:36] **Christina:** Yeah. I was [01:01:36] gonna say, if he can do it, he definitely will. Uh, and, uh, [01:01:39] **Jeff:** is the Mars [01:01:40] **Christina:** yes, [01:01:41] **Brett:** exactly. [01:01:42] **Jeff:** Okay. Got [01:01:43] it. [01:01:43] Got [01:01:43] **Christina:** also black [01:01:44] ink, which if you, uh, if, if, you wanna do a good, uh, [01:01:48] puzzle app, that’s a, that’s [01:01:50] a good one. [01:01:50] **Jeff:** Ooh, [01:01:51] **Brett:** Like for generating, for making your own crossword puzzles. [01:01:54] **Christina:** No, for, for, for solving. [01:01:56] So that’s like, just like a good, like, it’s [01:01:58] **Brett:** I thought it could make your own. [01:01:59] **Christina:** I think, [01:02:00] I think you can also [01:02:00] make your own. Um, but, but it’s like, I [01:02:02] use it just to like, play [01:02:04] like, you know, puzzles from other, [01:02:06] from like the [01:02:06] times in other [01:02:07] **Brett:** I’ll admit I’ve never actually used it. I just I have so much respect for Daniel gel cut as, as an apple developer. [01:02:14] **Christina:** Yeah. He’s, he’s like one of the OGs, like, you know what I mean? Like of like, of like the delicious generation Coco, like era, like [01:02:21] he’s like one of the OGs, one of the best and just a great guy, too. Fantastic guy. [01:02:27] **Brett:** Yep. We could just do Daniel gel cut as a pick [01:02:31] **Christina:** We could honestly, I would, I wouldn’t be mad at it. He’s a great guy. [01:02:36] **Brett:** All right. So Overtired has [01:02:38] a bunch of new channels. Uh we’re on Instagram, we we’ve long had a Twitter account. Uh, we have a new YouTube channel and, uh, full episodes are being posted to YouTube. So if you’re listening on [01:02:52] **Jeff:** my cooking show. [01:02:53] **Brett:** thanks for joining us. And Jeff’s cooking show. Um, and we are also starting up a newsletter. [01:02:59] [01:03:00] So if you want to get your name on the list and get a free email newsletter, check the show notes, [01:03:06] all of these links will be in the show notes. You can sign up for free, um, get, uh, some like the gratitude. I’m not sure exactly what we’re gonna put in the newsletter yet. Uh, but you’ll get some extra special show, note, uh, links and, and maybe some we’re not, it will not be mental health advice because we are not qualified to give that. [01:03:32] Uh, but [01:03:33] **Jeff:** Maybe some of Brett dad jokes for premium for premium subscribers. [01:03:38] **Brett:** When is the guy with the little SNIC and a show [01:03:40] up? I don’t know, but it shouldn’t be long. [01:03:44] **Jeff:** Oh my God. [01:03:45] **Brett:** You’re welcome. Um, alright. Hey, [01:03:48] you guys get some [01:03:50] **Jeff:** Yeah. [01:03:51] **Christina:** Get some sleep voice.

The trio is back together to talk about this week’s mental health, tech conference hopes, music festival tragedies, and some great apps. Show Links Macstock Trainwreck: Woodstock ‘99 Retrobatch TablePlus Roon Join the Conversation Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Peace, Love, and WTF [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:03] Hey listeners, you are tuned into Overtired. I am, uh, Brett Terpstra. We are back after a week off. Uh, I’m joined by Jeff severance. Gunzel and Christina Warren, how you guys doing? [00:00:18] Jeff: Two in good high. [00:00:19] Christina: Yeah. Doing well, doing well. Glad, glad to be here. Uh, glad to be back with both of you, cuz it’s been a while since we’ve, uh, done a pod together because you were gone Brett, and then we took some time off. So yeah. [00:00:33] Jeff: Yep, [00:00:33] Brett: Yeah. And, and before that we took some time off. We’ve been a little, um, scattered for a couple [00:00:40] Christina: I, [00:00:41] Jeff: summer schedule. [00:00:42] Christina: I was about, I was gonna say it is the dog days of summer. Like, I, I don’t know if this is how it is at Oracle prep, but I know that like at, at Microsoft and, and also GitHub, like basically people don’t work the entire month of August. Like, that’s just one of those, [00:00:54] Brett: that would explain. So it seemed really strange to [00:00:58] Jeff: you? A bunch of Europeans over. [00:00:59] Christina: [00:01:00] basically. [00:01:00] Brett: So, so like Oracle had a bunch of layoffs, uh, like huge number of layoffs. And I don’t even know the full extent of it, but, um, I was on vacation when the big round of layoffs happened and I got back and things were so quiet. I was wondering if I had been laid off and they just didn’t tell me, like, kinda like edged me out. [00:01:25] My band did that to me back in college. [00:01:28] Christina: Okay. [00:01:28] Jeff: know what? Sorry. Go ahead, [00:01:31] Brett: just stopped inviting me to rehearsal. [00:01:33] Christina: that’s how you found out you were out of the band? No, I was gonna say like, like genuinely, like, is everybody on your team? Okay. Like, [00:01:39] Brett: Yeah. My entire team is like, we met stretch goals like all through last year and like our team. Shows, uh, real results. And I’ve been told by, by the like second in commanded Oracle, we’ve been told we’re safe, [00:02:00] uh, which is a big, it’s a big relief. I, I need, I need to have a job right now, [00:02:04] Christina: Totally totally. Uh, no, that, that’s why I was asking before we got into any other, like jokingness stuff. I just wanted to like, make sure like, cuz cuz when I saw that and I, I, I knew we were gonna be talking and I was like, if something had happened, like I would’ve seen something, I would’ve heard something, but I, uh, I wanted to make sure that everybody on your team was, um, was okay. [00:02:23] Jeff: According to a obscure, uh, business newspaper called the wall street, something, something the layoffs primarily hit Oracle’s advertising and customer experience. As company emphasizes cloud and healthcare, it services, healthcare, it services. Well, all right. [00:02:40] Christina: I didn’t even know they did that, but, but [00:02:43] Jeff: That’s a big company. Isn’t it? [00:02:45] Brett: What’s healthcare, healthcare, like they just bought Cerner. So why are they laying off? I don’t what’s the [00:02:53] Christina: another part it’s, it’s probably another, I, it’s probably another part of like a healthcare thing who knows. I mean, I’m just thinking [00:03:00] like, you know how it is with giant companies. Like there are, I think there are two or three different health divisions at Microsoft that are in different parts of the company. [00:03:08] So who even knows. [00:03:10] Jeff: Yeah. Well, but Brett, you and your basement are unattracted. [00:03:16] Brett: Right, [00:03:16] Christina: is important though. [00:03:18] Jeff: it is important. Yeah. [00:03:19] Mental Health Corner [00:03:19] Brett: here in my bomb shelter. So, uh, let’s, let’s talk a little mental health. Uh, if you don’t mind, I’ll kick it off. Cuz it’s kind of short for me. Um, I, uh, I’ve been hypomanic for. A little over a week, uh, which is extremely long for me for a manic episode, but also I’m sleeping every night. [00:03:43] Jeff: Will you explain for people who don’t know the difference between hypomanic? I mean, you’ve talked about being manic a lot, but hypomanic [00:03:49] Brett: well, so I’m, I’m kind of, I’m probably misusing that phrase, but what I mean by it is, um, I’m sleeping like four to six hours a night. I’m [00:04:00] waking up. I’m not overly obsessive, but I’m definitely, um, uh, easily, easily get like one track mind on like a coding project in a way that I don’t when I’m stable. [00:04:15] And honestly, it’s been overall very productive. I’ve had a lot of fun. Uh, it’s kind of that sweet spot of. Uh, being able to create new things, uh, with while still getting some sleep and not killing myself. Um, I do need to get back to getting eight hours of sleep. Uh, it is wearing me down. Um, but in general, like I’m not, not talking too fast. [00:04:42] I’m not, uh, I’m not hiding in my office while I should be like hanging out with my girlfriend. And, um, yeah, like it’s, it’s kind of a it’s, it’s the sweet spot. I just, if I could combine this level of productivity with [00:05:00] eight hours of sleep, I’d actually be really happy. [00:05:03] Christina: Well, that would kind of be the dream though. Wouldn’t it like if you could have like that amount of productivity and like eight hours of sleep, isn’t that like, like isn’t like the plot line of the, of like the movie slash TV series. Like [00:05:12] Brett: yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh my God. When I saw that, when I saw that the movie and the show, I kept thinking that it was basically like the drug was focal in. Except without like, like a perfect version of Focalin. I was like, I need that. I want that drug [00:05:30] Christina: yeah, no, I, I felt the same way. I was like, oh, this is like Provigil, but like better. I was like, hell yeah, I want this. Give it to me. [00:05:38] Brett: Yeah. So that’s, that’s my mental health update. I’m I’m doing okay. I’m, I’m looking forward to kind of crashing and hopefully the, any, any depression that follows it will be equally as mild and, and I’ll just kind of, yeah. Anyway, I’m kind of relieved to know. I can still have mania a [00:06:00] little bit on my new med schedule. [00:06:03] Um, I do like, I, I sadly rely on it. Yeah. It, it’s kind of disgusting. It’s sick. It’s sick. How I kind of rely on my bipolar to succeed in the world. [00:06:18] Jeff: It’s not disgusting. It’s like a part, a part of your like core identity in the most pure sense. It’s like how you know how to live and how, you know, the experience of living has gone. [00:06:30] Brett: I have found that since I’ve started being more open about bipolar, I get a little embarrassed to publish like new projects because in my head, I think everybody knows that me publishing this means I’m having a manic episode. Um, but [00:06:46] Jeff: No, you know why, you know what hides it, you are incredibly well, um, sort of reasoned and pace, documentation and blog posts. You’re the way you write is [00:07:00] so just sort of con you would never guess this is someone who’s experiencing mania. When you, when you release something and write it, you can tell by the content like how much you are sharing that there’s been a lot of work happening, but it’s like you have such a calm and collected way of talking about your software and your [00:07:18] Brett: quantity and quality. [00:07:20] Jeff: That’s right. [00:07:21] Brett: Thank you. All right, [00:07:24] Jeff: There’s my, for the day Brett’s [00:07:27] Brett: go? You want to go? You want to tell us your mental. [00:07:30] Jeff: Um, yeah, sure. I mean, I, one thing I’ve been really grateful for this past couple of weeks is just, you know, something that I think you can learn it a couple ways. You can learn it by dabbling in Buddhism. Um, and, uh, like white liberals love to do like myself, you know? [00:07:48] Um, and you can, and, and I have learned it through therapy, this idea of rather than, um, really just like banging on myself about some pattern of [00:08:00] behavior or way of being, and just going through these sort of like shame cycles, just having help to kind of step outside my myself and just be curious, like, that’s like a really key word to be curious, like, huh, I wonder why. [00:08:13] I do that, or like, I wonder, I wonder like a big one that comes up for me is like, okay, so this thing I do clearly served me at some point, right. And probably even helped me or saved me at some point, but I don’t really need it anymore. And my, my body and my mind just didn’t get the message. Right. I don’t, I don’t need this behavior pattern to protect me, uh, anymore. [00:08:33] And like being able to just be curious, that’s all, I, that’s kind of my mental health update is like, I, I have had those opportunities, especially through therapy over the last couple weeks to step outside of the, like the shame cycle and, and beating myself up and, um, thinking about all the ways in which, you know, behavior patterns make things worse for me or for others. [00:08:54] And just to be kind of curious, and when I can step into that space, I’m so much. [00:09:00] Self-compassionate um, and that window is sometimes really short, right? Like you could be curious about yourself, maybe inside the hour of therapy, and then you walk it back into your world and you are not curious anymore. [00:09:14] You’re just mad at yourself or whatever, but just my, my, uh, my gratitude for, um, for people and things and, and, and books and whatever that helped me to step outta myself for a minute and be curious has been, uh, a big deal for mental health over the years and definitely in the last couple weeks, um, otherwise cats before we recorded, I was like, I was actually like, not like running and trying to get ready to record. [00:09:43] I was just sitting on the couch and my cat walked over and just like laid in my lap. And I’m like, this is what you’re fucking supposed to do. When I sit down, come over and lay in my lap and it was so chill and calm. And so I came into this podcast feeling good, but. That’s that’s a mental health update of [00:10:00] sorts. [00:10:00] What about you, [00:10:01] Brett: wait, wait, do you, when you, when you, when you do therapy, do you do, um, video therapy or do you go see people in person. [00:10:10] Jeff: I do video therapy and, and, and something really important about the curiosity piece is I have, for the last several years, my therapy has been with a, a practitioner who can do EMDR, which is a sort of trauma therapy, eye movement therapy that like, um, essentially you go through these interesting, um, cycles where like you’re having normal seeming therapy, you’re kind of identifying an issue or something that’s particularly hard. [00:10:41] Um, I’m gonna do the really quick version cuz I’m not, not licensed. So I can only speak from my experience. So, you know, you start your therapy as you would. Maybe over one or two or three appointments, you identify sort of a, something really sort of crystalline something. That’s like, yeah, this is a, an event or a, an [00:11:00] image in my head that is really sticks with me. [00:11:02] Maybe it’s literally something that’s traumatic or it just maybe something that, um, causes you disturbance. Right. And with EMDR, there’s this kind of interesting, um, thing you do, that’s almost like a dream state a little bit. So the eye movement part is handled on video by literally two dots that just go left and right. [00:11:22] And left and right. And the idea is your eyes just follow them. This is a very old, I mean, a trauma therapy, I think goes back to the seventies. Um, and I’ve used it for some big stuff. Um, and what happens is you identify the most troubling part of the thing you’re thinking of, right? Like what’s the most troubling part. [00:11:41] It could be, you know, an image. Uh, it could be, um, a thought, right. And you sort of like lay that out. And then you’re asked to sort of, you’re asked to like come up with a negative, um, cognition. Like what’s a negative statement that you feel is true about you when you imagine yourself in this situation. [00:11:59] Right. [00:12:00] Um, I am da, da, da, right? We all have, I am statements that are just things we’d rather not even say on a podcast, but we, we believe to be true about ourselves. Right. Um, and then you go through, um, this kind of series of, you know, all right, I’m gonna, you know, the, the therapist will do the eye movement thing. [00:12:18] It can be done with fingers. It can be done with lights, uh, in your hand, if you’re in person and it can be done as I do it online, um, with just these two dots that bounce back and forth. And you’re just, the idea is just sit with it, sit with whatever the last kind of feeling you had was. And they do that for about, you know, 30 seconds, maybe a minute, What are you feeling? [00:12:39] You know, you kind of just, you go through this like, um, repetitive thing where it’s like, you’re working your way into this image and what are you feeling? What are you thinking about? And. And this is the curiosity, right? It’s like it, it says, okay, so this is the thing you’re really stuck on this one image. [00:12:54] Right. Um, now let’s just like go inside that image as like deeply as you’re [00:13:00] comfortable going. And you go through this cycle of like eye movement. Okay. What are you feeling that usually leads to something slightly new? Uh, okay. Let’s go with that. And, you know, eye movement, and it’s just this nice, really nice cycle and my experience of it. [00:13:15] And that’s the best I can explain it, but others could do a good job. My experience of it is whatever I’ve brought to EMDR as something I need to work on. And it could be something like a major trauma. Or it could be. I mean, I, I once brought a certain kind of nightmare that I had repetitively, um, and, and whatever you bring to it, it just gives you the space to just be curious about it. [00:13:38] And when you’re curious about it, in my experience, I always end up coming out on the other side, understanding it in a very different way than I did going in. Um, and so anyway, I do therapy by video and I do EMDR two things that I didn’t think would be possible therapy by video and EMDR by video before the pandemic. [00:13:56] But I’ve really loved it. [00:13:59] Brett: Yeah, I’ve been [00:14:00] like the, the brief foray I did into video therapy. Uh, it was, it was productive. I, I didn’t hate it. Uh, Felt like I would ha I would be more open and comfortable in like, you know, on a couch, uh, in someone’s office. But, um, I was just curious, uh, if, if it worked for you, so that’s good [00:14:23] Jeff: well, what I dislike is, um, I almost always have to do it in my office. And it’s just hard to go from work to therapy, to [00:14:31] Brett: right. Yeah. Same, [00:14:33] Jeff: seat and the same, you know, like that. I don’t like that. [00:14:37] Brett: Yeah. That was my, that was pretty much that’s what bugged me too. [00:14:42] Jeff: Yeah. [00:14:42] Brett: like I, I would, I would feel like opening up more if I weren’t also in the place where I conducted all of my business. [00:14:50] Jeff: Mm-hmm [00:14:50] Brett: Um, anyway, anyway, [00:14:53] Jeff: yeah. And I recommend finding a way to switch locations if you can. I can’t always, but it makes a big difference for me. [00:14:59] Brett: could [00:15:00] take my phone out into the woods and have a therapy session. [00:15:03] Jeff: Christina, how about [00:15:05] Brett: Yeah. [00:15:05] Christina: Yeah, no, it’s actually funny. We’re talking about this because as soon as, uh, our podcast ends today, I’m actually, uh, gonna be talking to my shrink, um, and, uh, having my, my monthly, um, appointment with him. Um, but even though I’ve been seeing him for like 20 years, except for like the period of time that I ghosted him, um, more for more than a decade, like I’ve been seeing him, um, Remotely, like we’ve done stuff over the phone, so I don’t even have in person stuff. [00:15:33] So it’s interesting. Kind of like hearing that experience. I think, uh, like I obviously wouldn’t be able to do the sort of, um, uh, some of the, the therapy that you do, um, uh, Jeff, where you need to see someone and like, you know, they’re, they’re looking in your eyes and, and you’re having that type of, of, of like, you know, that type of therapy. [00:15:51] I wouldn’t be able to do over the phone. Uh, and he’s not really technic. Technically savvy enough for us to do a FaceTime or Skype thing [00:15:58] Jeff: a thing [00:15:59] Christina: that that’s like, [00:16:00] not him, like he’s in his seventies and, and, you know, he’s very, very good at what he does, but like not a tech guy. And so, uh, so yeah, so it’s interesting cuz I also have dealt with that over the years of like, okay, am I in a space where I can feel like I can be free to actually say what I wanna say? [00:16:17] And, and sometimes that’s meant, you know, walking around outdoors and doing other things. I actually, this was nice back. Um, I, uh, I worked at Microsoft proper. I had an office and I had a private office for most of my time there. And that actually wasn’t terrible. A, it was nice because I could podcast from it. [00:16:37] If I had to, like, I could either go in earlier or late and like had a nice like podcasting space, but B it was honestly nice sometimes because you know, like you’ve got the door closed and you’ve got something else going on. You know, somebody sees you on a phone call, like they’re not gonna bug you. And, you know, You can kind of like feel a little more free than you might, like if you’re at home and there are people, you know, around, you know, your [00:17:00] family and stuff, which can make things a little more awkward, um, when you’re doing a therapy appointment, right? [00:17:05] Like, not that there’s like, not that anybody’s like judging or listening in or whatever, it’s just, you don’t always feel as free to be able to be open in that way. [00:17:13] Jeff: for sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, man. So you do yours by phone and this is someone you’ve known since you were a kid, probably. Right? Like got it. [00:17:25] Christina: I was like 18. Um, and, um, and so I trust him a lot and he does, you know, like, uh, you know, medicine, but also does, you know, like normal therapy. He’s, he’s like a rare, like, you know, shrink who also does like, like therapy. And there have been times in my life where I’ve definitely, um, uh, gone to him more frequently than monthly. [00:17:46] It’s been, it’s been monthly for a while and sometimes I have to do it more frequently. I am gonna go on a tangent. Now my mental health is, is incidentally. It seems pretty fine. I am annoyed with this though. So apparently the DEA [00:18:00] just passed some new thing where to fill like, uh, like certain types of, of schedule, like, you know, two or schedule three drugs or whatever. [00:18:07] Like you have to have like the, if it’s out of state, like your home address has to be on the script and the birth date and all this other stuff. And it totally fucked me because I went to get my Dexter. And they gave me this thing. It apparently went into effect on, on July 26th. And they’re like, yeah, sorry, we can’t fill your, your meds for you because it doesn’t have this stuff on it. [00:18:29] And it has to be written by the doctor. And I’m like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, and then it was at a, doctor’s like a, I couldn’t, I don’t feel like I’d be confident in forging his, um, handwriting and, and style. Be which look, I, it, it, for certain doctors, I would totally have like, we’re all, we’re all friends with this podcast. [00:18:47] I would do it, but also like the area, like if I were in like one of the rich neighborhoods, maybe it’d be fine. But in this case I’m like, I don’t wanna be like, somebody think I’m like a drug seeker. I’m like, no, I’m actually just trying to get my fucking pills filled. So, so [00:19:00] now I’m, I’m in like this frustrating thing where, um, I’m glad I have a call with him. [00:19:04] And a little bit, actually, I was supposed to have a call with him last week. It, I would’ve been really pissed if he’d written me scripts last week that I, and mailed off that I wouldn’t have been able to use, but I’m like gonna be running low on meds. I’m leaving for Atlanta on Thursday. Cause my mom’s birthday is next week. [00:19:20] So I’m hoping what I’m gonna have him do is just write it out, put all the shit that he has to put on it, according to the da sheds and then, um, uh, have him mail it to my parents house. [00:19:33] Jeff: Oh my God. [00:19:34] Brett: uh, [00:19:35] Jeff: That sucks. [00:19:36] Brett: Yeah, good luck. [00:19:38] Christina: Yeah. That’s just the downside of like having an out-of-state shrink. Like if you were in state, it would be a different thing. But, but when it’s out of state, there are these different things. And apparently like it’s never been, um, discussed before. Like it’s literally like they print something out and they gave it from, from Walgreen’s. [00:19:53] It’s dated 7 26 it’s like select field leaders. The drug enforcement administration has recently rescinded previous [00:20:00] guidance that allowed pharmacists to modify or add missing elements to controlled substance prescriptions. Because in the past, like the pharmacist could add that stuff effective immediately, all controlled substance prescriptions, all elements required by 21 C four, blah, blah, blah. [00:20:13] Must be present on the prescription when it’s received, like just complete and utter bullshit. [00:20:19] Brett: what problem is this solving? [00:20:21] Christina: It’s not, that’s what I’m saying. It’s like, look, if you’re, because here’s the thing, like if you, if, if I guess that they’re trying to be like, oh, well, if you’re getting somebody out of state to write you a, I mean, I, I exact, I don’t know what they’re doing, cuz I’m like, if you are really that hard up for it, you’re just going to buy it on the street. [00:20:38] Brett: Right. Yeah. [00:20:39] Christina: you’re just going to buy it on the street and, [00:20:42] Brett: and making things harder for people to get prescriptions. It’s just gonna make more people buy it on the [00:20:46] Christina: 100%. No, that, that that’s the thing with this. I’m like, okay, well, thank you very much for like, making this really more complicated than it should be. And, and just like making me feel like I’ve done something wrong when again, like they said, oh, the [00:21:00] DEA has rescinded, you know, previous guidance. [00:21:03] It’s like, but it’s also one of those things, like, could I have had an email Walgreens? I don’t know, you know, cuz this literally this happened like 10 [00:21:11] Jeff: dude, Walgreens is, I mean, I get all my stuff to Walgreens. It’s such a mysterious black hole. What do you know? And what do you not know? I don’t understand. [00:21:19] Christina: right. [00:21:20] Brett: so. My, my doctor, just to talk about Walgreens for a second. My doctor accidentally called in two of my scripts to Walgreens instead of my usual pharmacy. And, um, immediately like Walgreens contacted me to, to clarify some things and let me know when I could pick it up. And then like, uh, I just let it be. [00:21:45] I was like, fine. Okay. Uh, I let it be for a month. And then like a week before my scripts were due, they like called to like, make sure that like, uh, the, to call to renew any scripts that needed to be renewed [00:22:00] and to, uh, and just to verify that they would be ready to pick up. And these are services that I have never had available through my, my mom and pop pharmacy that I usually use. [00:22:10] And I gotta say it was it’s nice. [00:22:14] Christina: Okay. It here here’s, what’s even better. They’ll send you text messages when you need to refill, and then you can use the app or the website and just like, have it, have it go through. It is really nice. I, um, my favorite pharmacist of all time, she, she left, but she was, uh, like the, the head pharmacist at, at Publix. [00:22:30] Um, when I lived in Atlanta for a long time, Ray, who more than. Did some shady shit to make sure I had my, my meds and that stuff was covered when insurance wasn’t wanting to cover certain things like, like gray was the shit, but I will have to [00:22:43] Brett: why I go to the mom and pop [00:22:45] Christina: totally, totally. I, I agree. I was gonna say, well, cuz Publix, obviously, you know, big supermarket chain, you might not, you’re probably not familiar with it, but it’s a big supermarket chain in the, in the south, um, in Georgia and especially Florida.[00:23:00] [00:23:00] Um, that was me rolling my eyes saying Florida. Uh, but, but this is like, can typically be like the benefit, like. Get a good relationship with some of those pharmacies. I don’t have a good pharmacist here. Um, in Seattle I did at the Walgreens that was on campus, but I can’t go to that one. I mean, I could, but I, I can’t really go to that one anymore since I, I don’t work at Microsoft proper, so I don’t, I can’t use their, their health clinic now, but there was a Walgreens on campus. [00:23:26] It was great, but you’ve understood. Like you might not get the, the, the love and care, but you get like the ability. You get so many benefits, like they’re, they’re gonna like take care of you and, and, and prescribe things. Plus I will say the one nice thing, like, even though I agree, like it’s a, it’s a black hole of stuff. [00:23:46] The great thing with Walgreens is that if it’s not like a controlled substance or whatever, you can, you can like move that shit to any Walgreens in the freaking country. Any Dwayne Reed, any Bartels, like whatever millions of things they own, you can just like, move it over and be [00:24:00] like, I’m in this city and I’m picking this up now. [00:24:02] It’s pretty. [00:24:03] Brett: I, I once ran out of meds, uh, out of, out of my ADHD meds while I was in San Francisco. And, um, I had the prescription, I actually had the written prescription, but it was from Minnesota and I had to go to, uh, six or seven different pharmacies in San Francisco, uh, before CBS finally, they were like, oh yeah, let let’s just call your pharmacist at home. [00:24:33] And they called and they verified everything and they filled it for me. But holy shit, that was, that was a lot of walking. Uh, [00:24:41] Christina: I bet. Especially cuz especially cuz like a lot of Hills, you know, lot, lot of places where you’re trying to find it. Yeah. [00:24:48] Brett: And I was staying at the Mosser. [00:24:50] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah, [00:24:51] Brett: Uh, and they had like an on-call doctor and that was where I started. And, and he was like, cuz I was taking, I think [00:25:00] 40 milligrams of focal in a day at the time. Um, and, and the doctor was like, I can help you out with a few, but that is way too many. You and he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t fill the script. [00:25:14] So [00:25:14] Christina: Totally. [00:25:15] Brett: the, the adventure began. [00:25:18] Jeff: Can I tell you little quirk about my Walgreens? Uh, well, first of all, in Minneapolis, after George Floyd was murdered, um, some opportunistic folks decided to just start raiding all the pharmacies as part of the. Uprising and, or like sort of the, the ripple effects of the uprising. And so every Walgreens in my area was Lood. [00:25:41] Most of ’em were burned and, um, , I’d not gotten my prescriptions ahead of time. And so I now have this tendency to try to, if I can get like three months worth of my prescription, cuz I don’t know when, while my pharmacies are gonna disappear, but my actual Walgreens, which I am so loyal [00:26:00] to, even though my wife has been trying to get us to switch across the street to this grocery store, uh, got shot up about a year ago, somebody was trying to shoot through the Bulletproof window to get in and, and, and you know, do the thing and there’s so they got a lot of the framings. [00:26:15] If familiar driving up to a Walgreen’s like a big window, then you got the drawer that comes out. You got a speaker that never really works that. Great. Anyhow, these fucks shout out that speaker. There are bullet holes that I can put my finger through in the framing and fucking Walgreens took until about two weeks ago to fix that speaker. [00:26:33] So we were having to like, and let me tell you, I know a little bit about electronics. That’s like a $3 speaker. And, and so we were having to communicate with them through the drawer. They’d open the drawer and like stick their face in the drawer. [00:26:47] Brett: oh, [00:26:47] Jeff: that’s the south Minneapolis Walgreens problem. [00:26:50] Brett: speaking of uprisings, [00:26:53] kinda, I want to, I want to talk about Woodstock 99. However, [00:26:56] Christina: I was gonna say that that’s a really good segue. [00:26:59] Brett: want to give [00:27:00] a brief recap of max stock before we get to Woodstock 99. Um, so max stock, it was a couple weeks ago now. Uh, it was, it was fun. It was very small this year. Uh, it was about a third, the size that it had been, uh, last time that there was an in-person max stock. [00:27:17] It’s been a couple years due to the, you know, pandemic. Um, but first of all, Aaron, uh, who’s been on the show before a friend of the show, Aaron Dawson [00:27:27] Christina: Front of the pod. Aaron Dawson. Yes. [00:27:29] Brett: best presentation of, of the weekend. Uh, like there’s this tendency at a conference like that, to talk about your favorite apps and every white guy on the, on the docket talks about their favorite apps for doing this or that. [00:27:46] Uh, and, and it, you get audience interaction. Everyone wants to talk about their favorite apps and, and it’s just the easy go-to thing. And Aaron didn’t do any of that shit. She did a presentation where she talked about, [00:28:00] uh, how to make music using logic or garage band to soundtrack your videos, uh, without having any musical [00:28:11] Christina: love [00:28:11] Jeff: Awesome. That’s a great one. [00:28:13] Christina: I need to, and, and, and she, she recorded it right? [00:28:16] Brett: she, she record it. Max stack puts it behind a paywall, uh, that you have to get like the digital pass, which I can help you guys get. But that’s a little frustrating for Erin who made the 14 hour drive, uh, to speak at a conference that was pretty low attendance this year, and now doesn’t have a public video. [00:28:37] She can show for it. So I wanna, I wanna see if I can work with, with your organizers [00:28:42] Christina: yeah, yeah. I, I would say so. I mean, cuz I, I, or, and especially like, If they wanna have a paywall for like 30 days or something [00:28:51] Brett: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:28:53] Christina: but, but it shouldn’t be in perpetuity, especially like it, cuz if they’re not paying speakers and, and, and, and, and I get that, it’s like an indie conference and [00:29:00] whatnot, driving 14 hours to come. [00:29:01] It’s a small thing to do that. I don’t know. Like, I, I think that would be something that I [00:29:07] Jeff: Oh, that’s the, I mean, if they’re not paying, I, I have very strong feelings about not paying people. No matter how Indy you are, you can pull together some money to pay someone, right. Like ask your mom. Um, but, but then, then to put it on a, on a paywall, that is a shame. They can’t even make that much money off of it. [00:29:23] Sorry, [00:29:23] Brett: we have, [00:29:24] Jeff: who you are, but. [00:29:25] Brett: we had, we had some, some, some talks, uh, Jay Miller, uh, who happens to be like the only black guy at max stock. Um, Jay Miller, myself, uh, a couple of, uh, people representing the queer community. There was a lot of conversation about what max that could be versus what it is. [00:29:49] Um, and there’s some resistance from the organizers. Uh, and I can’t quite pinpoint what it is that, that there’s, that [00:30:00] he specifically is, is scared of losing. If, if you bring in a committee, if you actually have max sack run by a committee of people representing, you know, a, a more diverse population. And there, I mean, a good portion of the attendees this year were, uh, mug people by which, I mean, 70 plus white guys, like [00:30:27] Jeff: I’ve never heard that term mug people, [00:30:29] Brett: Mac, Mac, user group. [00:30:31] Yeah. Um, which, [00:30:33] Jeff: I just got led in a little deeper. [00:30:35] Brett: which these days skews much older. [00:30:38] Christina: Well, yeah, cuz anybody who’s go well look, cuz anybody who’s gonna go to a user group. Like let’s be honest, like is going to be older cuz. Like, I’ve never, I’ve never purposely gone. I mean, like I I’ve gone to a couple of Matt. Like there was, um, a Omni did a, a Seattle, um, Mac user group thing that I, I went to a few times and then they had layoffs and then I felt bad cuz I was like, well, a lot of [00:31:00] the people that I really liked at Omni don’t work there anymore. [00:31:02] And so that feels awkward if they’re doing stuff like, you know what I mean? Um, but that was nice. That was nice to meet people in the Seattle area and is a big area. But yeah, in general, it it’s like, it goes back to like use net days, I think. Right? Like, isn’t that the whole like mug and lug thing, so [00:31:19] Brett: old, the graveyard persona [00:31:22] is who shows up for [00:31:23] Jeff: Mug and lug Linux, user groups and, and Mac user groups. Oh [00:31:26] Brett: Wait, and, and, and no, no hate for, for that community. That’s fine. I just, I don’t pay to go to a conference, uh, to hang out with those people. I go to hang out. People my age, uh, with similar interests and I mean, it does serve as kind of a, a family reunion of sorts, but it also like max has the potential to be an actual conference, uh, that, that reaches out well, that’s one of the [00:32:00] things [00:32:00] Christina: Well, yeah, [00:32:00] Brett: like there are certain things they need to change. [00:32:03] Christina: well, and maybe they, I mean, you know, the organizers, you can talk with them more, but it might come down to like, I, I, I don’t know. Cause I understand what you’re saying and I, I would be like you, like, I would, it would be good to have it. Like more committee have more open, you know, bring in a more diverse group of participants. [00:32:23] Um, but I can also think that if it’s, if it’s people who you have, who’ve been coming to this thing and what your conference is, is a certain group of people. Who’ve always done things a certain way, even if it’s not expanding, like to your own peril, maybe like, that’s just what it’s going to be. [00:32:38] Brett: that’s just a meetup. And if you’re just gonna have a meetup, call it a meetup. [00:32:42] Christina: I mean, I don’t disagree, but I mean, what, what I’m saying is what you might have to come to terms with is that it’s possible that the idea you have, and the thing you’re thinking of is that if max stock doesn’t wanna do it, then maybe that’s another event. You know what I [00:32:54] Brett: So, so that is absolutely something that’s been on my mind is if, if [00:33:00] max stock isn’t open to reshaping itself, um, I’m happy to keep going to max stock and perpetuity, but I would want to maybe like in Chicago, proper start, uh, like at first a meetup that could become a mini conference, but just a way to bring together all of the people that I would wanna see once a year, uh, and, and have a couple talks, but mostly like social time and just, I, I need to figure out how to make that appealing enough to get people from say California to fly in for a weekend. [00:33:39] Christina: You need to talk to guy English as who you need to talk. [00:33:42] Brett: Yeah. I have a list of, I have a list of people. This is, this is actually, uh, I’ve put a lot of thought into [00:33:48] Christina: No, I’m sure you have I’m I’m I’m sure you have. I’m just saying, cuz like what, what it seems like you’re describing is single 10 and things like that. And, and so which, which was [00:33:57] for, for people who don’t know, which was an amazing conference.[00:34:00] [00:34:00] Brett: If there are like current meetups happening that are big enough, like I’m happy to tack on my ideas to something else that already is established. Uh, so I need to do a little more research and I have a few zoom calls set up with people just to find out like what they’re into, what exists already, uh, without reinventing the wheel. [00:34:24] But anyway, [00:34:25] Jeff: me know. No, let me add one thing ne not on the planning committee. Okay. Chicago is lovely. City lived there. Love it. Great. Like tech community, Minneapolis, hell of a lot cheaper to get to and stay in. [00:34:37] Christina: And also better airport, frankly. [00:34:40] Jeff: better. [00:34:41] Brett: oh my God. Way better airport. [00:34:44] Jeff: tech community. There’re already a couple of good tech conferences that come here every [00:34:47] Brett: Oh, that’s really smart. Yeah. I, [00:34:49] Jeff: that out there. Just don’t go to the Walgreens on HYA waha, cuz they shot up the speaker. [00:34:57] Brett: Yeah, I lean towards Chicago just cuz it’s that’s where we [00:35:00] go for max stock, but you’re right. Minneapolis would be a better choice than Chicago. Um, alright. Alright. I will keep you all posted on progress there. Um, so, uh, last night Christina texted the group and said, uh, please watch this documentary on max stock. [00:35:20] Max [00:35:21] Jeff: next stock Woodstock [00:35:23] Woodstock ’99 [00:35:23] Brett: Woodstock 99 and I had actually already finished it and uh, to watched it in horror. Um, Christina, what did you, uh, what did you wanna, how did you wanna present this? [00:35:36] Christina: Well, okay. So first of all, um, did you ever watch the HBO max documentary on Woodstock from last [00:35:43] Jeff: Okay. Thank you. This is different because fuck that one. And I, I thought we were dealing with the same thing and I was like, I am not gonna watch a movie that a documentary that talks about sexual assault and shows tits for the first five minutes of the documentary. [00:35:58] Brett: Let’s be clear. This [00:36:00] is, this is, this just came out. I believe it was on [00:36:02] Christina: it’s [00:36:02] Jeff: gonna settle down. [00:36:04] I just said tits for the first time online. I couldn’t forgot. Do I say boobies? Do I say, [00:36:09] Brett: there, [00:36:09] Christina: you can say whatever you [00:36:10] Brett: this, this [00:36:12] Jeff: This I wanna see then [00:36:13] Brett: this did have some boobs and they didn’t talk about the rampant sexual assault until the end of the second half of it. So the end, they didn’t talk about exactly how much rape happening. [00:36:27] Jeff: Well, can I just, uh, then, because it’s a serious subject, obviously did, does that something that anybody else like, like, felt like was an issue in the HBO one, because really it was in the first moments, it was in the first five minutes and they do the montage and you know, the voices talking about it and they’re just showing like topless women. [00:36:49] And it’s like, what the fuck are you doing? You’re doing the thing. [00:36:51] Christina: Right. I, I think this one was better than the HBO one in that regard, because the way that it progresses. So it’s three episodes. So it’s, it’s like, you know, I [00:37:00] guess it’s probably two and a half hours. If you were to, to add it all. Um, but they do it in three parts and, and the way that they kind of, you know, tell the story. [00:37:07] A lot of it is, is told through footage that people on the ground were taking. And some people who were, you know, part of the festival, they have talking heads with performers, but also with some of the MTV, you know, people who were there and [00:37:19] Brett: even a couple of attendees BVIs and Butthead on in attendance. [00:37:23] Christina: and Butthead. Oh, my, these, these two guy, these two 16 year olds who were like, one of them seriously, like sounded like he was stoned. [00:37:30] He had a mullet, like genuinely looked like, like, like, like, like live action BVIs, um, [00:37:35] Brett: Totally [00:37:37] Christina: it’s amazing. Um, But no, I think it was better than the HBO one, but I think to tell the story, like you have to, like, they, they went through like day by day, like hour by hour, basically like how the event unfolded. And in that regard, I think that it was okay to not lead with the sexual assault stuff, because that’s not like that happened at the beginning. [00:37:56] Like it started out as this great thing. Everybody’s having an awesome time. [00:38:00] Then it starts to get crazier like the first night with, with corn, right? Where, where, where things start to get a little bit outta control. And then like Bush, Gavin is able to calm things down because he’s a pro and he knows how to handle a crowd, but then they have their first rave and shit kind of gets wild again. [00:38:15] But then the second day, you know, it’s like people start to get a little more, well up a little bit bigger. That’s when you have like li biscuit come in, then you have like, like, you know who Fred Durst. Fuck him. Fuck. Right. Like when he is, you know, doing that thing and, and then you have like, you know, the people literally like commandeering cars and trying to drive through the rave area and like that boy having to like end his rave set and people that is when they first talk about like sexual assault. [00:38:40] And then the third day when it just devolves into chaos. So like, I actually thought that the way that they told the story was really good, because you felt the emotion of. This thing, which seemed like, I think for a lot of people, even people who were there who witnessed a lot, the horror, like they said, like they had a great time. [00:38:58] Like if you weren’t, you [00:39:00] know, somebody who was like a hurt or whatnot, like you could see that it would be this crazy ass thing, but you could still maybe have had good memories with your friends, but how this, this event that was just mishandled by the, the, you know, um, the, the people who were running it, the, the promoters, the fucking fucking criminal, right? [00:39:17] Like they’re, they’re the ones who, you know, really. [00:39:19] Brett: intentionally obtuse in my opinion. [00:39:21] Christina: Absolutely. Absolutely like, like this one fucking promoter, like the guy who’s dead. I don’t give a shit. The guy who created Woodstock fuck off dude. Like he, he, he like, like, he, he can seriously, like, I don’t give a shit, but this other guy who was like the money guy, cuz they’d lost money on Woodstock 94. [00:39:35] And they were like, okay, we gotta make money on this one. And when he’s asked about the sexual assault stuff at the end, He’s like, well, I’m not saying that it’s good, but this was like a small city. And if you look at the number of rapes that happen in a small city, this is actually less than that. And I, and I wanted to reach through the, through the television screen and like kill the guy. [00:39:55] Right. Because it’s just not the response. Um, but,[00:40:00] [00:40:00] Jeff: you docked him instead. [00:40:01] Christina: Well, I mean, you know, but, but, but, but, but what I was, but like, what’s, I wanna get your thoughts. Right. But what I thought was really interesting about it was like a, I was brought back to that time and I remember wanting to go to that concert so badly. [00:40:13] And obviously my parents wouldn’t let me go. Right. There was no way they were gonna let me go, uh, to, to, you know, upstate New York to go to a concert, like never in a million years, I was in high school. I was like 15 or 16. They would never let me go. But I remember watching it and I was brought back to like, The way that it unfolded and the way that, like, not only that they have the pay review, but like MTV was, was playing stuff live and like was reporting on stuff. [00:40:37] And the fact that you saw it as that weekend went on, you saw the same shift that you could feel the crowd have, where it like went from this thing. That was great into this thing. That was just terrible. [00:40:51] Brett: Yeah. I, I feel like in general, the media coverage did not, like, I don’t remember my impression of what I [00:41:00] saw on the news. Matching what I saw in this documentary. I mean, yeah. We all knew it went to shit. We [00:41:07] Christina: Right. We didn’t see all of that. Yeah. Cuz I, cuz I think that they, I don’t think that they knew like, I think that as soon as it was clear, like, like I think that the Sunday stuff, I think it was clear, but I definitely think that like MTV cuz like Anand Lewis who still looks amazing by the way, like she looks fucking fantastic. [00:41:23] She’s interviewed in it because she was, she was um, like she had to leave the beach house and go to fucking Woodstock 99. She was really pissed about that. I don’t blame her. Um, you. She like, they could tell that stuff was like, kind of like getting crazy like that first night, but especially the second day. [00:41:40] And MTV certainly didn’t portray that to anybody watching at home. Like nobody at home knew until the third day when like the fires and shit started. Right. [00:41:48] Brett: they handed out fucking candles, [00:41:50] Christina: idiots were a fucking, and ironically [00:41:53] Jeff: was it for? What were the candles for? [00:41:54] Christina: It was for it, [00:41:55] Brett: a vigil for gun violence. [00:41:57] Christina: violence. They were trying to do a whole Columbine thing. Oh, look [00:42:00] how beautiful it is. [00:42:00] Yeah. So we’re just gonna hand out, um, you know, a hundred [00:42:04] Brett: they still thought this was Woodstock in the sixties. They still thought there was peace and love happening and everyone would settle down and hold onto live flames. [00:42:14] Christina: it’s like in the sixties, they wouldn’t have done that shit. If you’d treated people the way you treated them. Right. Like it was, you know, it, it, it, the what, what, but I remember. Because I think you’re right. I don’t think that people knew how bad it was until the third day. And then when all the footage came afterwards and then everybody, and it was interesting to kind of see like the news division of MTV. [00:42:35] I remember this like their take on it versus, you know, the entertainment part because cuz like MTV news, I remember being pretty critical about it, but yet like Kurt and, and Serena and, and anda were all there. [00:42:49] Brett: Were trying to put this face on it. Um, like they knew things were fucked up and they were trying to be like, well, you know, it’s a [00:42:58] festival and [00:42:59] Christina: Yeah. Cuz they’re [00:43:00] live TV and I, I ki I kind of don’t blame them for that. Like if, if, if you’re like a live host, it’s a little bit different than like the ABC news guy, you know, who was able to kind of be a little bit better about things. But, but I do remember MTV after the fact. [00:43:16] I remember they did a special going into all the horror and like focusing on that. I do remember that I do remember [00:43:23] Brett: don’t remember that. [00:43:24] Christina: yet, and they didn’t cover that in the documentary. But I remember that explicitly, because that was one of the first times I remember like, as a media student thinking, oh, that’s interesting. [00:43:35] Cuz they were promoters of this and they were part of the hype of this. But then there has to be this other section of this organization where they have different standards. Right. Um, But yeah, it’s, it’s a weird thing, right? Where all the news media was kind of complicit in some ways, you [00:43:53] Jeff: Yeah, [00:43:54] Brett: Like during this period in, in my life, I was not at all [00:44:00] interested. I was not the kind of person who would go to Woodstock 99 and I saw the news coverage in passing. Um, I, I knew there were a bunch of people covered in mud at some point, and that there were some fires and I did not realize that the whole goddamn place burned with trucks exploding and people, [00:44:22] Christina: I mean, it’s amazing that nobody died, honestly. [00:44:24] Brett: hon. Yeah, it is amazing that nobody died. It was pure anarchy. [00:44:30] Christina: anarchy. I mean, and it was the thing, like, you know, cuz like 94, I remember the mud and everyone remembers that stuff, but this was so much worse. This was like, they started tearing stuff down like on Saturday, but then like Sunday, they literally burned the place to the fucking ground and. [00:44:47] Brett: the, the PA towers. They took down the food court. They started smashing ATM machines. Oh, sorry, ATMs. [00:44:57] Christina: yeah, [00:44:57] Brett: M the M stands for machine [00:45:00] ATM machine is redundant. [00:45:01] Christina: there. There’s, there’s this, there’s this lady who, who would this, this old lady who was like yelling at, at the kids, trying to get them to clean up, cuz she was like part of the original [00:45:09] Brett: Handing up, trying to hand out garbage bags. [00:45:11] Christina: And, and, and they were like not having her, but she was kind of awesome because she like was like, what is this? [00:45:17] And she was like, this is what we did. This was Woodstock 99. Like, she was like, very clear about, like, about like the, the complicit, um, like of the, of the, you know, organizers and the promoters and this. But, but yeah, I mean, this is, it was true anarchy. It’s amazing. No one died, cuz like you think about, um, uh, Astroworld, which, which happened, um, last year, uh, that where, you know, a couple people died and that from the crush of the crowds and, and that was being broadcast on livestream and people saw kind of this horror and how, how bad that was. [00:45:50] This was so much worse. And it was being broadcast on a paper view that they were charging 60 freaking dollars for a 1999, you [00:45:59] Brett: but [00:46:00] nobody had smartphones. [00:46:01] It would’ve been a very different documentary. If that had [00:46:04] Christina: oh, you’re not, you’re not wrong. Totally totally. But, but, but yet people did have cameras with them and other stuff, but again, this was being broadcast live. I mean, this is still what’s insane to me is that like, you know, uh, there was this one guy, like this was guy actually kind of, you probably appreciate this, Jeff, like there are these, these people who were like videographers, who they, they went back into the chaos because they’re like, we gotta get the shot. [00:46:27] We gotta, like, we gotta record this. We go, [00:46:30] Brett: saw the fire starting. They’re [00:46:31] Christina: Saw the fire starting. They were like, no, we can’t leave. So they like went back into it, which had, I mean, you know, if, fuck, I mean, if you were witnesses, something like that, it would be, [00:46:43] Brett: They, they had already evacuated fat boy slim and all of the camera people were getting ready to evacuate, like run. And they saw this tower starting to come down and this like young journalist, uh, who’s telling the story in the documentary [00:47:00] was like, we can’t miss this. This is something is happening here. [00:47:04] And like FRA boys, man, like that was it’s this mentality. I’m not saying everyone, there was a frat boy, [00:47:12] Christina: no, no, but, [00:47:13] Brett: mentality of like, [00:47:14] Christina: It was well, yeah, I mean, I think it was, I mean, I think that they put it in really good context. It was like the type of music. It was that the machismo that was happening, it was the fact that it was hot is the fact that they were charging ridiculous amounts of, of money even by [00:47:28] Brett: $12 for a bottle of water even now [00:47:31] Christina: Even now would be nuts, especially when they refused to let people bring water in. Like they made people like, like throw away their water bottles when they got into the venue, like just, just terrible stuff. And, um, but, but definitely I think the culture of the time, cuz I remember. You know, going to concerts and going to big festivals, not anything like there was a, there was a concert, it was like at the Atlanta motor Speedway. [00:47:58] And it was, I think the week [00:48:00] before, or two weeks before Woodstock, 99 and many of the same bands at Woodstock, 99 were at this thing, but it was a one day thing instead of a three day thing. And it was. Up until Woodstock on United, it was like the biggest crowd for some sort of concert that had existed. [00:48:15] And it was, it was like over a hundred thousand people. It was like, you know, 150,000 people or something. And I remember crowd surfing in that. And I remember, I remember being groped. I remember, you know, like kind of that whole thing. Right. And like in a way that I hadn’t ever really been like at, at other stuff, like I remember. [00:48:32] So, yeah, I think it was very much kind of, of that time, you know, where just not frat boys, cuz the, a lot of these guys weren’t frat boys just like angry, like entitled [00:48:43] Brett: spring [00:48:43] Christina: spring break, just like white dudes. Right? Like that’s the thing. And that’s did you notice that too Brett? Like it was so fucking white. [00:48:51] Brett: Oh, so wait. Yeah, absolutely. Almost a hundred percent. Um, you, [00:48:56] Jeff: I’m [00:48:57] Brett: by the way, [00:48:57] Jeff: the lineup and it makes that, um, [00:49:00] evident without seeing it. [00:49:01] Brett: You gotta, you gotta feel for Cheryl Crow in this whole situation, [00:49:04] but should, should we try to fit in a gratitude before, uh, Christina has [00:49:10] Jeff: sure. But hold on, I’m looking at the lineup. Where’s Cheryl Crowe in this picture. Oh yeah, here. She’s on Friday east stage about midway through the day before corn. [00:49:19] Brett: Early on early enough to have people yelling, show your tits, but not so late that they were ready to tear down the stage. [00:49:26] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And Juju was attacked, you know, to, I mean, I thought I feel bad virtual. Well, you know, this was what’s weird too, is that like fucking little fair was also happening that summer. So, you know, I get, I get why you would go to Woodstock 99, but I bet that if they’d, if they thought about it a little bit harder, be like, you know what, even if this is gonna be huge, I’m I’m I’m headlining little fair. [00:49:47] Fuck. Fuck. This thing. [00:49:49] Brett: yeah. In, in retrospect they probably did. [00:49:53] Jeff: anytime you look at the, the lineup and you go, I’m kind of opening for corn or insane clown posse or limb biscuit. [00:50:00] That’s not my place. I have not. That is not me saying they should not have been there so that they didn’t get, I’m not, that’s not my point. I’m just looking at if they had flipped these lineups. [00:50:08] Cause a lot of the midday lineups are like pretty chill. The late, the late night lineups are like, oh [00:50:14] Christina: the thing. It, it, well, that was the thing. Like, I think the first night was probably the only night they nailed it cuz they had corn go who killed it, you know? And, and, and, and they interviewed him. What’s his space from corn who was actually seems like a really cool guy. Um, but, but then they had Bush have to follow up, which, which sucked for Bush a little bit, but Gavin is a pro and like, Calmed the crowd down. [00:50:38] Like it didn’t, it didn’t go off the rails, which, you know, like, because there was a ton of pent up energy and it could have gone really badly that first night, but, but he was able to, you know, like with his hotness, like kind of like bring it, bring, bring the [00:50:53] Brett: Okay. So I never, I never followed Bush and I had actually never seen, uh, this, this [00:51:00] Gavin guy until this documentary. He is [00:51:02] Jeff: seems like a good [00:51:02] Brett: he, he is a beautiful man. [00:51:04] Christina: well, okay. Well, [00:51:05] I mean, other. [00:51:06] Brett: in 1999, [00:51:08] Christina: other than cheating on Gwen Stefani with the, with the, um, babysitter, uh, with the nanny guys know about that they were, they, they were married for [00:51:16] Jeff: They didn’t tell me about that. [00:51:17] Christina: They were married for 20 years and she found out because of, uh, he was using like the family iPad to like send iMessages to the nanny and then like, Bro can’t can’t use the same, um, you know, apple ID when you’re like sexting your nanny on like the family iPad. [00:51:33] Anyway, she’s she’s now she’s now married to, to one of the boys dudes. She’s fine. But, but, uh, but yeah, they were the ultimate power couple though. Cause imagine like, like two of the most beautiful people on earth, like, you know, Gwen Stefani and, and Gavin Rossdale. [00:51:49] Brett: all [00:51:49] Jeff: Wow. All [00:51:51] Grapptitude [00:51:51] Brett: All right, Christina, just in case you have to leave early, go first. [00:51:56] Christina: Okay. Um, so my [00:52:00] gratitude. All right. Um, I’m gonna talk about, have we talked, have I mentioned tables plus before. [00:52:11] Brett: No, uh, by the way, by the way, I just wanna make it a rule that we can repeat shit. If like, if new, if new versions come out or we just have like excessive gratitude for some like we’re. [00:52:23] Jeff: have excessive [00:52:23] Brett: cuz I will forget. I will forget, but yeah. Tell us about table plus. [00:52:27] Christina: So table plus is a really great, uh, uh, sequel, um, kind of a go kind of app it’ll it deals with my SQL deals with post grads. It deals with a bunch of stuff. It’s really, really good. It’s part of set app, but you can also buy it directly from, um, their, their website. They also have a windows and a Linux version. [00:52:44] It’s kept up to date really well. And there used to be a couple of good kind of sequel visualization apps for, for Mac OS, if you wanted to use, like, you know, like a, a database manager that, that wasn’t like a, you know, a gooey web thing. [00:53:00] Um, but most of them haven’t been updated and, and aren’t, um, still kept up this one. [00:53:05] Um, they, they handle their issues on, um, on, on GitHub, which is nice. It’s not open source, but, but the, the issues are handled on GitHub, which I really do appreciate. And this is, um, I’m, uh, trying to fix my website, which has been offline for a long time, uh, because of my fucking web host. And so I’ve been going through some stuff and this has been really, really helpful. [00:53:25] Just in terms of app, like a, a way to, to deal with having to make a bunch of changes to a bunch of, um, um, tables and databases, but it works with my SQL works with, um, uh, Amazon, uh, Redshift SQL light, um, Oracle Mongo. Yeah. So, so I’m, I’m a big fan. Um, it, like I said, it it’s, um, you can get it, uh, directly from a, a table plus.com, but you can also, it’s part of set up, which is really nice. [00:53:52] So if you’re a set subscriber, which we, we, they are not sponsoring this, but, uh, we are all fans. um, [00:54:00] wanna give, wanna give that a shout? Cause I’ve used it for a long time and, um, they’re also really responsive on Twitter and on GitHub, if you have like requests or other things, like they’re really, really responsive devs. [00:54:09] So I wanna give them a shout out because this has been helping me with, with dealing with some, um, belated old crafty web shit. [00:54:19] Jeff: I’ve been using, um, table plus for about 10 years, I think. And I’d totally have a wandering eye for other, um, similar apps and I have never, ever been pulled away from table plus. That’s [00:54:35] Brett: It’s good stuff. I agree. [00:54:38] Jeff: fantastic. Who else? What are you doing? You open a pack of smokes over there. Can’t tell what you’re doing. Okay. A screwdriver. [00:54:46] I understand that happens in the [00:54:47] Brett: My, my keyboard has a leg that’s loose and it’s [00:54:50] Jeff: No, you go and you go and fix your fucking keyboard. I’ll just talk [00:54:55] Brett: yeah. Tell [00:54:56] Jeff: um, mine is, mine is an app called [00:55:00] ruin ruin R O O N. So I have this thing where I’m, I’m just looking always for the right music player. So I obviously have used apple music and iTunes before forever. [00:55:12] Never liked iTunes, except for some of its interface. If I didn’t like what it did to my files and always frustrated me. And I finally decided to take a total audio nerd jump, and I still have a ton of my CDs. It mostly I’ve kept the ones that like. Really mean something to me as I’ve watched over the years, as I’ve watched them either disappear from streaming or never show up. [00:55:34] And so I have this, like, I need to keep the ones I love, cuz I never know if they’re gonna be gone. And when, of course I could buy ’em on eBay anytime. But anyway, what I’ve decided to do before getting rid of them possibly is upload all of them as flack files, which. The audio nerd file, uh, format. And, um, I’m partly doing that because my father is my father who retired on a public teacher’s salary. [00:55:59] [00:56:00] Um, but is like a master at electronics, um, is able to sort of buy all of this high end audio gear when it’s not quite working and fix it. And so he has this, what is probably like a $40,000 stereo system and one day I’ll inherit it. So I might as well have my CD files, my digital files in a good format. [00:56:16] And so he kind of talked me into it. Um, and so once I did that, I had the problem of like, okay, so now how do I use these files? How can I like interface with these files? Because what’s actually cool to be an old man for a minute. What’s cool about having a CD collection still is like, It’s the last true curation experience of my of my like regular life. [00:56:37] So vinyl is something that was, you know, I have tons of records and it is a curation thing, but vinyl is something where like I’ve bought records cuz they were $3 or whatever. But my CDs were always like very intentional, you know? And so it’s kind of fun to have uploaded all of them about halfway through and have this like curated library. [00:56:56] It’s not for everyone, but it’s definitely for me. But the problem was how do I [00:57:00] see other music that streams alongside these and that is ruin R O O N is like this high end audio app that. Does not satisfy even half of my needs, but is the only thing that satisfies at least half of them. And what it does primarily is I use I’ve started to use title, which I really love also an audio nerd move. [00:57:21] And so it, it can let my title and, and my flack files live next to each other in one interface. And it also has some bananas, uh, audio features in terms of EQing and doing all kinds of shit to make like a, you know, particular pair of headphones or whatever sound. Right. So I’m just having a lot of fun with it. [00:57:40] Now I look, and I see, I have one day left on my free trial, so I don’t know yet if I’m gonna [00:57:45] Christina: I was gonna say, cuz [00:57:46] it, cuz it’s like $10 a month or something. [00:57:49] Jeff: $10 a month. And then, you know, on top of that, title’s expensive, you know? [00:57:53] Christina: Okay. So, so I’m gonna recommend that you talk to fed Rico, uh, fiche, because he’s been doing some similar [00:58:00] stuff with hi, like he’s, he’s put everything inplex and other things you should re you should read some of the stuff on Mac stories and see some of his take. Um, and maybe even like DM him. [00:58:10] That’s that’s my advice to you because this looks great, but if it doesn’t do everything you want it to do, and it’s $10 a month, I mean, [00:58:18] Jeff: know, but like at the same time, like music is for me, [00:58:21] like I’m so such an obsessive, like it’s like kind of the one thing that’s worth spending money on for me. It’s like, I, I am so completely in love with music always. Wow. You just switched into pink headphones. Oh, [00:58:36] Brett: She’s like, she’s on the phone [00:58:37] Christina: Hey doc. Hello? Yes. Sorry about that. [00:58:41] Brett: Oh my God. That would be amazing. I think I, I don’t know how okay. She’s on mute now. Okay. Christina is out. Uh, sorry. Um, [00:58:59] Jeff: [00:59:00] gonna be almost like couples therapy for podcast hosts [00:59:02] Brett: that was gonna, yeah, that was gonna be interesting. Uh, Jeff, have you heard of retro badge? [00:59:07] Jeff: No [00:59:08] Brett: Uh, it’s this app from flying meat who also makes acorn. [00:59:12] Jeff: meat. That sounds like an awful scenario. [00:59:14] Brett: Uh, he, it was named after he’s a rock climber. Gus is, and I believe flying meat is a reference to a specific, uh, like cliff, uh, on a climbing route that deer are known to fling themselves off of. [00:59:30] Um, but anyway, retro batch is this image, hand image, manipulation automation app. [00:59:39] Jeff: Ooh. This is cool. [00:59:40] Brett: You get like these, you get a grid and you drag nodes onto it with things like read this folder of image, uh, images, uh, resize, every image to this dimension, crop it to this output JPEG and a, and a PNG file. [00:59:56] Jeff: The interface reminds me of how Alfred’s workflows are built. [00:59:59] Brett: [01:00:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Node based node based development of a workflow. Um, and then it can get like that alone is worth the price. Just like I have, for example, I have a template for designing header images for my blog and, and I put my, like the focal point of the header goes into a certain part of the grid. [01:00:23] And then I run it through, I, I output a large JPEG and I run it through retro batch and it crops down and makes Twitter images, Facebook images, uh, two X and one X blog images and large and small. And it outputs them all from this one image that I save outta my [01:00:44] Jeff: That’s great. [01:00:45] Brett: Um, yeah, it’s amazing. Plus, you can get deep, like you can automate with apple script, you can write plugins with JavaScript, uh, screenshot, SIM link clipboards, like in [01:01:00] addition to all of the transforming and converting that it can do it is topnotch. [01:01:05] Jeff: I just downloaded it. That is awesome. [01:01:07] Brett: I’ve been on it since the beta, it costs, it’s like $20. It’s super affordable for what it, for the power it [01:01:16] Jeff: like a one time thing. [01:01:18] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Just like straight up $20. Oh, okay. I just went to the buy page and it says we’re celebrating, flying meets 20th anniversary by lowering or raising the price of everything to $20. So I can’t remember what it costs normally, but now is the [01:01:36] Jeff: that’s genius. Wait, this is [01:01:38] Brett: Oh yeah. It’s it’s normally 30. So right now you can get it for $20. [01:01:42] Jeff: app is not 20 years old, but flying meat is 20 [01:01:44] Brett: Correct. Correct. [01:01:46] Jeff: So how, what did flying meat do in the oh, acorn? [01:01:50] Brett: acorn is the, uh, the long, long running acorn was around long before pixel Mader, long before [01:02:00] affinity like acorn, if you needed to do image, editing on a Mac without buying Photoshop, uh, acorn was where you went [01:02:09] Jeff: The name flying meet comes from a fun rock climb in Missouri. Uh, ready. The climb is named after an unfortunate deer that jumped off the top witnessed by the fellow who first found the climb as he was going up it and thus it was named flying beat. That’s a good bit. [01:02:28] Brett: uh, I had pizza with Gus in San Francisco once and he told me this story and I had forgotten the details, but I still recall it had to do with a deer flying off of a cliff. [01:02:40] Jeff: it’s good. And it almost seems like flying meat is like Gus Gus’s wife and Gus’s daughter, but. [01:02:50] Brett: I believe they, they do like PR and customer support with him. [01:02:54] Jeff: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Cool. I’ll check that out. That looks amazing. Actually looks [01:03:00] far preferable to doing it with, um, shortcuts, which are still so kind of annoying to [01:03:05] Brett: man. I, I got into shortcuts this weekend, cuz I added shortcut commands to bunch. Uh, bunch can now bunch can call shortcuts, send text, and receive responses from shortcuts. [01:03:18] Jeff: Damn. [01:03:19] Brett: That you can then apply to variables and use in various ways. But, uh, as I hadn’t gotten into shortcuts yet, uh, I’m an automator guy. [01:03:28] Everything I have is written an automator, it fit my needs. If I didn’t, if I wasn’t using automator, I was using tools like keyboard, moisture, et cetera. Um, but then I found out you can just drag an automate or workflow into shortcuts and it will turn it into a shortcut [01:03:42] Jeff: Oh really? [01:03:43] Brett: Uhhuh. And, and 90% of the ones I’ve tried worked great. [01:03:48] Um, had some issues with ones that rely on Ruby scripting, um, and, uh, the using the system Ruby was different [01:04:00] than my ability to use what en returns. But anyway, um, I’m finally getting in shortcuts is better than automator. Uh, just the fact that you have loops [01:04:11] Jeff: Oh, I don’t, I don’t dislike it. I just find that sometimes what I wanna do by the time I’ve achieved it, I’m like, this just feels clunky. I don’t really, if it breaks, I won’t know why I is how I feel. I don’t know that that’s fair. I just, you [01:04:25] Brett: yeah. No, it’s everything’s fragile. I mean, anything in automation is fragile, but anyway. All right. Yeah, this was good. I’m sorry. Christina had to leave us, but some things are more important. I understand. [01:04:39] Jeff: She kind of began and ended this one with the mental health corner. Let’s just, uh, applaud her for that. [01:04:46] Brett: right, man. Oh, you know what? Let’s let’s recap. Let’s recap. What have we talked about today? We talked about, we talked about we get your mental health corner. [01:04:57] Jeff: Mm-hmm talked about being curious, [01:05:00] talked about hypomania versus mania, [01:05:04] Brett: Uh, pharmacies, uh, different Walgreens specifically. Uh, we got into, we talked a little bit about Macstock and the future of, of a small conference. Uh, we got into the Woodstock 99 documentary on Netflix. We actually spent a good amount of time talking about [01:05:22] Jeff: And I was, I was happy to talk about it once I realized it wasn’t the HBO documentary, which I have real problems with. [01:05:29] Brett: and then, and then we got, we got your Grapptitude. We got, we got some great picks and, and Christina had to ditch out before the end, but she had table plus it was a, it was a good episode, everyone should everyone, everyone who’s hearing this little bit as just a clip, you should tune into the episode. It was worth it. [01:05:49] Jeff: Tune in, [01:05:51] Brett: Tune in, get some sleep. Jeff. [01:05:53] Jeff: some sleep, get some sleep.

Brett is traveling and Jeff has some questions about Christina’s journey from American Idol to GitHub. Sponsor Show Links How to be a Gawker commenter Tough love: Gawker finds making it harder for comments to be seen leads to more (and better) comments Panic Playdate VS Code Server Playdate SDK Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 292 [00:00:00] Christina: [00:00:03] You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren, Brett Terpstra is indisposed this week. We decided to give him the week off, but person who is not indisposed and is here with me is, uh, my good pal, Jeff sovereigns. Gunzel Jeff, how are you? [00:00:18] Jeff: I’m good. Not indisposed for once. Uh I’m great. Thank you. How are you? [00:00:23] Christina: I’m good. I’m good. I got to spend, uh, time yesterday with, uh, some friends of mine who I haven’t seen in a while. Um, one is visiting from out of town and another, she lives nearby, but we just, she’s far enough away that I don’t see her that often. And so I gotta hang out with, um, her and her husband and her baby, and I got to go to a park and go on swings. [00:00:42] I hadn’t been on a swing in probably 20 years, so that was fun. That was really fun. Um, and, uh, yeah, no, I’m good. Um, so, uh, we, we actually, for, for listeners, we recorded like three days ago. So this is like, it you’re hearing it a week [00:01:00] later, but we recorded like three days ago. So, um, what’s been going on with you over the last little bit. [00:01:06] Jeff how’s how’s the COVID recovery and everything. Uh, the, the back to life after the, the road trip and everything going. [00:01:12] Jeff: COVID recovery is good. Back to life is good. We tried to put in a new like vanity and medicine cabinet and stuff in the bathroom today, and none of them really work. So we’re sitting on top of a lot of stuff that we really just need to return and replace. So that’s a little like frustrating. Um, but so otherwise since then, I don’t know. [00:01:34] I’ve just been kind of trying to get my feedback on the ground after my trip and the COVID before it. So how about you? [00:01:40] Christina: Um, I’m good. I’m I’ve been, yeah, again, I just, you know, had like work stuff and, uh, and like I said, I, I went to a park with a baby, which was really fun. So [00:01:48] Jeff: a baby. That should be a activity you can choose any day. I. [00:01:51] Christina: I agree what was funny because we were like having this conversation, we were like, why don’t they have like playgrounds for adults because playgrounds are freaking [00:02:00] fun. Like, you know, like, like big like adult slides and, and, you know, uh, seesaws and swings and, and bouncy castles. And, you know, like, there’s, you, you could have like other stuff too, where people could like, turn it into CrossFit stuff, I guess. [00:02:15] But like, you know, like there’s, you could have rules, like, okay, it’s indoors. Cause we don’t want the bugs, but like, you know, so the park we were at was act absolutely outdoors, but you know, you could, you could have rules like, okay, you can’t bring alcohol cuz we don’t want the liability issue. But like, why not just like have like more than like a David busters, but like a full on like playground type of situation. [00:02:35] Like I think that that would be, that would be for me, I would, I would much prefer that to like the normal gym. I’m not even gonna lie. [00:02:42] Jeff: What’s as you were talking, I, I had this, I was trying to kind of picture it. And one of the things that happens at a park for kids that I would actually enjoy as an adult is how kids can be hanging out at the picnic table. And then they can decide to just run off and do a thing on their own, or do a thing with one other person. [00:02:59] Then they come [00:03:00] back to the picnic table for a bit. That’s just kind of a good model for an introvert, uh, to be socially, [00:03:06] Christina: Exactly. Exactly. Like you could still, you could have like, like, like the, the picnic table of whatever, you know, and people are like, yeah, I’m gonna go to the climbing wall now, or I’m gonna go in the swings and then you come back and like, I’m gonna hang out with my friends, you know? And it’s like completely cool. [00:03:19] Jeff: Yeah. Just someone just needs someone to keep the juice boxes cold. [00:03:22] Christina: exactly. So, so I’m gonna be working on a business plan for, for my adult park idea. Um, adult, not adult park, but adult playground idea. And, uh, also like in addition to, to the no alcohol, no sex stuff, because that’s no, again, liability stuff. Yep. Have a code of conduct and be like, look, if you meet people and you like, like each other, that’s awesome. [00:03:48] But like, don’t, don’t fuck at the adult playground. Like [00:03:51] Jeff: that’s when you upgrade to the mall [00:03:53] Christina: exactly. [00:03:54] Jeff: or a parking lot or [00:03:55] Christina: A parking lot or like yeah. Or yeah, [00:03:57] Jeff: you wanna get on to. Yeah. All right. [00:04:00] And all the other people can hang out. Just slide, stop, slide. Stop. Love it. All right. I’m in. You need, like, what do you need? 20 bucks. 40 bucks. Get you started. [00:04:09] Christina: yeah, sure. That, that, that that’ll definitely be enough. Um, listeners, let us know, uh, what you think of my adult playground idea. Um, and, uh, and it’s probably a terrible idea, but, but, uh, yeah, I mean, [00:04:21] Jeff: wanna give him your GoFundMe address? [00:04:23] Christina: yeah, I was gonna say gofundme.com/adult playground. No, that actually probably [00:04:29] Jeff: Nope. [00:04:30] Christina: I don’t wanna do that. [00:04:31] I don’t [00:04:31] Jeff: not the one you wanna, Nope. [00:04:32] Christina: That’s not the one. [00:04:34] Jeff: look, there’s some shopping that has to happen. [00:04:36] Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say so, so, so, so let us know, but we think about the idea first and then I’ll, I’ll, I’ll like be soliciting for a, for investors. [00:04:46] Jeff: awesome. [00:04:47] Christina: Okay. All right. Should, should, should we do our MHC. [00:04:50] Jeff: Let’s do our MHC model. [00:04:53] Christina: All right. So MHC is our, our mental health corner. Um, uh, uh, Brett actually sent me some photos yesterday of him at [00:05:00] Mac stock with, um, some of, uh, some, some people, some mutual friends that we have, or no, no, no, Brett didn’t send it to me. Uh, uh, Jay Miller did of he, but he was with Brett and with mys and I was so jealous of him at max stock. [00:05:12] So I really wanted to go this year and it didn’t work out, but, uh, I’m definitely, I’ve committed already. I’m definitely going to be there next year and I think you need to commit as well so that, uh, [00:05:21] Jeff: I’d love to. [00:05:22] Christina: so that we can actually have like a, an in person, Overtired comp, um, but, uh, how’s your mental health going? [00:05:27] Jeff? [00:05:29] Jeff: Good. I had a, this is a much lighter than normal. Check-in like yesterday, a friend of mine. And I, we had been planning this for like weeks decided to just like take the afternoon and go record shopping. And, um, and I realized he actually described this, but it, it, it hit so perfectly all of the. All of the knowledge I have about music starting from when I obsessed over reading the credits on MTV in like 1983, [00:06:00] uh, to the present day, all of that information I’ve saved and collected sometimes even without meaning to man, when I get to a record store, I feel like, oh, I am expert in something. [00:06:13] Christina: That’s awesome. That’s. [00:06:15] Jeff: And so that was kind of fun. And it was really, it was really fun to just, I haven’t really like intentionally gone record shopping, certainly with a friend in a long time, it can be awkward. Like, are you ready? No, I’d like some more time, but no hurry. You know, like you just don’t know what a person’s timing is or like their rituals when they go into the record store, like it takes me like 15 minutes to go through the new used records that have come in, you know, sometimes 20 minutes. [00:06:41] Uh, I’m very slow anyhow, but it was a lovely time. But the thing that, the reason this is a mental health check in is, you know, I struggle with having too much stuff. And one of the categories of stuff is, you know, records and CDs. Cassette tapes. [00:07:00] And, and I’d been sitting on this box of seven inches since the early nineties. [00:07:04] It’s awesome. It’s an awesome box of seven inches, but I’d never not then. And not now, do I play seven inches? Right. Um, and so I realized like, yeah, these are fun to look at, but why don’t I just put ’em back into the river here, you know? And so I brought him in and they don’t usually nobody buys 40 fives anymore. [00:07:21] I mean, barely seven inches, whatever you wanna call ’em. But I brought him in and the guy was like, you know, he was trying to set the expectations low. He’s like, you know, we don’t really buy, I mean, I can take a look, man. And I got $300 store credit out of these things. And so, and 20% off, whatever I wanted to buy. [00:07:39] And so I got to do the most massive record shopping I’ve ever done. And I bought like $350 worth of records for $10 and it felt so good to get rid of something. And then just so directly. You know, recycle it into something new and fresh. I wasn’t just trying to give up space. This was more about giving up sort of psychic space. [00:07:59] Like this had [00:08:00] just been something I knew I should deal with for a long time. And it was just felt so good to buy so many records and not come home, uh, exhausted with shame like, oh, why did I spend so much money? Uh, so this is cool. I’ve never, I’ve never once spent that much money record shopping and it was just lovely. [00:08:16] Anyway, so that’s my mental health chicken. It gave me a big boost and I’ve spent the, you know, yesterday and today just listening to the records and I love it. What a, what about you? [00:08:25] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, mine is pretty good. Like I said, I was able to be with some friends, which was really nice, like that always improves my mental health when I’m around people that I care about. I, um, I went to dinner with a person that I know mostly online. Apparently we had met before, but I unfortunately didn’t remember. [00:08:42] And we went out to dinner on Friday and I was anticipating that it was gonna be like a dinner where cuz he just started a new job at. And was in town for that night. So I figured I was like, oh, well, it’ll be some of his colleagues. And then I’ll be kind of be like the fifth wheel. And it wasn’t, it was actually two people [00:09:00] that he’d worked with at previous jobs who just happened to work at, live in Seattle now. [00:09:04] But the, you know, the other three of us didn’t know each other. Um, and so, um, like it was, it was kind of a nice, almost like dinner party sort of thing where, you know, we were all, it was, you know, you know, four people kind of, you know, three people getting to know each other. We had a mutual friend, but it was a really nice, like he, he picked a really good group of people to kind of meet up and nobody felt like they were, you know, like the fifth wheel and nobody felt like, you know, unin included. [00:09:31] And, and that was really nice. And that got me thinking, I was like, oh, that’s a really nice way of maybe doing kind of group, you know, intros of things. Um, but, uh, but, but being around people helps my mental health a lot. And it’s one of those things where I can have my introverted moments. But it’s very, that that’s times when it’s like, okay, it’s actually really important for me now to be around people. [00:09:54] And, and it just kind of reminds me, like, that’s what the hardest part of the last, you know, two plus years have been, has been [00:10:00] like not being around people because that, that really does impact me. I, you know, and, and, and it, it’s one of those things where at least for me, I’m like, oh, I don’t need this, but I do. [00:10:11] And it’s one of those things where, cuz I’ve had times in my life where, I mean, actually this freaked me out. First time I ever went on Klonopin or anything like that was, I was having like major or phobia, which I’d never had before. And you know, you almost had to do kind of like exposure therapy to kind of like get past it and, and whatnot. [00:10:28] But it was almost like, okay, I really do need to be around people. Um, even though I’m, I’m perfectly happy by myself sometimes like. Really important for me to be around people. And so it’s been nice, you know, the last, the last few days, you know, being around people who are either new or that I haven’t seen in a while, and like that does a lot for my mental health. [00:10:50] Jeff: It’s amazing cuz you’re describing such a simple thing, but it’s so incredible that we’ve just been through a long period of time where it was completely impossible. [00:10:59] Christina: Totally, [00:11:00] totally. [00:11:00] Jeff: I’m not, I just continue to be astonished by that. [00:11:03] Christina: No. I know. And, and I think that that is one of those things that we just, we had to do it and, and it’s going to have so many long lasting repercussions for so many people for kids, especially, you know, for young adults, but even for adults. Right. I think even for people who feel like, well, we’re, we’re, we’re stronger and we’ve gone through this stuff. [00:11:19] It’s like, no, like our lives have had like real disruption and, and there are real long term consequences to that. And, and it’s really nice when you’re reconnected with people again, but there’s still, you know, kind of this, this fear in people’s, you know, some people have like, where, like, you know, am, am I going to get sick? [00:11:37] Like, what are the risks? And I’m now at the point, and I can say this, like, fundamentally for me, the, the. Like the, the downsides of not being able to be like, kind of live my life in a more normal way and, and be around, people are much worse than like, what could happen if I got like long COVID[00:12:00] [00:12:00] Jeff: Mm, [00:12:00] Christina: you know, depending on like what that really even means, which we don’t really know what that means or, or whatnot. [00:12:06] Like I’m, I’m not at a point where I’m, I’m, you know, afraid of dying of, of COVID. Um, and, and I think that at this point, unless, you know, you are, are, have like severe, like, you know, immunocompromised issues or, you know, are older, you know, there, there things that go into it. I think at this point, like we have a good treatment plan, not to say that it’s. [00:12:27] Not a, a thing. Obviously people are still dying, but I’m just saying for me, that is not a strong risk thing. Like I’m not afraid of dying of COVID. And so for me, when I look at like the downsides of other stuff, like I, and I respect people who are like, I’m not gonna get on a plane. I’m not gonna be around people. [00:12:41] I’m gonna be masked all the time. I get that. But for me, like the downsides of not being able to live my life, the way that I was like, the, the, the trade off is, is at this point, like, it’s, it’s too much. So it’s an interesting thing. Cause I have some friends who are not at that point and I totally respect that. [00:12:59] And, and everybody has to [00:13:00] make their own decision. But for me, it’s like, yeah, I will. I’m completely okay with the risk of getting sick. If the other alternative is that I’m continuing to be alone and isolated and not able to have the things that I very much need that make life worth living. [00:13:21] Jeff: right, right. Yeah. I mean, I, I have a friend who’s a therapist and struggled in during COVID times with a few, you know, if someone was really isolated and they were trying to figure out. You know, this is more like the coming out of COVID time or the coming out of like the really intense lockdown times. [00:13:42] If a, if a person was kind of thinking, maybe I want to go to this party of three people, but I know that it’s dangerous. There’s people I’ve spoken to who were in that position, like spend as a therapist, another friend who’s like more of a kind of loose counselor role [00:14:00] who were just like, what do I say? [00:14:01] Because they need that. And they may need that more than they need to protect themselves from COVID. Um, and I’m just hearing that when you talk, it’s such an intense, intensely important thing to acknowledge, [00:14:16] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it gets lost sometimes. Right? Like I think that there are some people who are like way too much on the, like at like another, in the spectrum where like, they don’t even wanna acknowledge why people might take the risk. And I’m like, be because this isn’t going away, at least this is my perspective. [00:14:32] And again, I, I’m not expecting everybody to agree with me on this, but this is not going to go away. This is not going to change. There are things that we can do, like when things are, are bad to, to mask up and to like, you know, take more precautions, but this is not going away. And so if I have to like learn to live in this world, then I need to like learn to live with it. [00:14:51] And I, I cannot be isolated anymore. I, I can’t like if other people are cool with it fine. But like, I, I can’t. [00:14:59] Jeff: [00:15:00] Mm-hmm [00:15:00] Christina: know, and, and it’s not that I don’t care about other people and that I, you know, like that, I’m like, you know, like wanting people to die. It’s nothing to do with that. It’s just like, we all are going to have to find a way to move forward in life. [00:15:12] And for me, I will take the risk of, of getting sick. And I’m also like, as long as I’m taking precautions myself and, and I’m not like forcing myself on people who are not taking those risks too, then, then like, frankly, like I’m not even gonna be like, oh, well, you know, you’re, you you’re infecting others. [00:15:29] I’m like, well, maybe, but if they’re also choosing to be out, you know what I mean? Like we all have to kind of accept that, that that’s, that’s where we’re at. So I don’t know. [00:15:40] Jeff: Yeah, we got to the point with neighbors during the pandemic. We’re in a we’re in Minneapolis and like typical urban houses are just like touching each other practically. And we have a fence between our two houses and we call it the border bar. We meet there with drinks, um, periodically. And it started in the pandemic when it was like 25 below. [00:15:59] [00:16:00] We were just like, can’t stand it anymore. Let’s at least like stand six feet from each other in the freezing cold and have a drink. You know, it was like the one social thing we could imagine doing. But then also just like on a really mundane level, like today, one of my kids is out playing D and D with friends. [00:16:16] The other one is out tubing in the river. Those are things that didn’t happen for two years, you know? [00:16:22] Christina: And they’re important that it’s intense and they’re important. Being able to go tubing, being able to go to a park, being able to like, just play D and D with your friends. Like, it, it, it, it’s important to be around we’re social creatures and, and, um, you know, I think that there are, like, there would be ways where you could maybe like limit certain we didn’t ever, and we, that the problem is too, like as a society, we didn’t do anything. [00:16:45] The right way, like we went full stop. There’s no interaction, right. There was, it was like a full, it was like a full stop of like, everything is open, everything is closed. And then it was like, everything is open again. You know, like, like some people were doing stopped openings, but there was, there was no kind of [00:17:00] like in between stuff. [00:17:01] So it was one of those kind of like, it was like a switch that was like on or off. And, and we had to adjust to those things. [00:17:07] Jeff: Mm-hmm mm-hmm . Yeah. And I do think like, I mean, now I think the way that it all went down, um, and the way that we came out of it and the way we are now as a, as a, you know, conflicted culture in America of many different cultures. The next thing that happens, like coronavirus, there’s never gonna be a, a lockdown again. [00:17:29] Like I even, like, I I’ve told people before, like I already live, like I’m already like, uh, quarantine, adjacent dispositionally. And, and so like for me, the lockdown was like, oh, I love this. I don’t have to make too many choices socially. It’s like a huge hope for me. Um, but it’s just never gonna happen again. [00:17:48] It’s gonna be fought intensely from the moment it’s even like hinted at, and that’s, that’s something I try not to spend too much time thinking about cuz nothing’s happened yet, but like, yeah, I can’t [00:18:00] help but think, oh, it’s gonna be a not nice time. [00:18:04] Christina: No, totally. And, and the thing is like, I, I kind of understand, I, I was surprised that it happened to begin with, I just thought, like, at least in our country, like I was like, our, our independence has always been such that, that like, I, I was like, okay, I know that you can enforce this in Singapore and in China and some other places, but I don’t think you can enforce this in the United States. [00:18:22] And, and, and the fact that we, we did as limited as it was, you know, um, was, was kind of a. A Testament, you know, but, but, but would that prove to me though, is it was like if 90% of the people do the right things, if that 10% doesn’t then it’s off or not. Like, like, I, I became frustrated because I was like, I still ended up getting sick. [00:18:46] Um, even though I did all the right things, even though I, I didn’t take, I, I wasn’t acting in a way that was in any way, like going against guidelines. Right. Like I did all the right things. So what was this all for? You know what I mean? [00:19:00] Like, my, my parents’ friends still died. Like we still had people who weren’t able to be at, at their loved ones funerals. [00:19:07] Um, we still had like these situations, like we did all the right things and it didn’t matter. So like, there’s a big part of me as unhelpful as this might be. And as selfish as this might be. And, and I’m fine with, with, with accepting that I’m, I’m just kind of like, yeah, we did all the right things and it didn’t fucking matter. [00:19:24] So no, I’m not going to go through that again. I’m not like, I, I, I. [00:19:29] Jeff: like it’s almost like a desperate feeling like, fuck no, [00:19:32] Christina: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, absolutely. Cuz it’s one of those things like, okay, we did all the right things and it didn’t matter. So what was the point? You know, which, which is, is terrible, but it, but I, but I have, I think that I’m not alone in that and I don’t think it’s like a, I don’t think it’s a left right thing. [00:19:47] I think that it’s just a, as you said, it’s a desperation thing where people are just like, no, we, we gave up a lot and the consequences and the outcomes were still really terrible. Would they have been worse? [00:20:00] Probably, but, but you know, like, you know what I mean? Like, like it’s one of those things where it’s like, if you don’t do it completely, then it it’s still, you still like, let you still let things in. [00:20:13] It’s just, I don’t know. [00:20:15] Jeff: Based on like how you remember the pandemic unfolding, where on the timeline, do you put the point where, where you were at, what you just described, which is like, we can do all we want, but because you know, this percentage of people aren’t doing anything, you’re feeling like it doesn’t matter. [00:20:31] Christina: Um, I would say, I would say like November, December [00:20:34] Jeff: Mm-hmm [00:20:35] Christina: of this year, 20 21, 20 [00:20:37] Jeff: 21. Oh yeah. Got it. So, so, so like you got things starts in March of 2020, [00:20:43] Christina: Yeah, [00:20:44] Jeff: and then you’re saying like all the way up until about November, December 20, 21, like you, you were you personally just like, okay, I get it. I get it. But you were slowly that was eroding and then, and really eroding in December. [00:20:55] Christina: Yeah, yeah. [00:20:56] Jeff: get that. I get that. I [00:20:58] Christina: because at that point, yeah, we, you know, [00:21:00] we were trying, we had vaccinations and we had people who were then choosing not to get vaccinated and you had, you know, sickness still coming and you had all these variants and you had all this other stuff. And at this point I was just kinda like, okay, so we didn’t fix anything. [00:21:14] We, we, we did all this and it didn’t solve anything and it didn’t stop anything. And there’s still variants that are happening. And now you have people who are refusing to get vaccinated and, and are refusing to celebrate these good things that have happened. So what are we? And we don’t have enough vaccines for certain parts of the world. [00:21:31] And we still have, you know, these, these conflicting kind of strategies and this and that. So like what, what was this for? You know, like, yeah. I, I would say that, that I, I was all up for it until like November, December, and then I was just kind of like, all right. I will obviously respect whatever the guidelines are and I will respect other personal policies in the individual that I’m friends with or am around, wants to follow. [00:21:57] But for me personally, I’m done [00:22:00] pretending, like I can continue to have my life in stasis because, um, the, the, the consequences and the risks don’t match anymore. Like, like my, my, my personal risk assessment is now at the point where I’m like, I, I can’t like for my own mental health. And also just for what I would look at as the way I was looking at things like logically not to say that my view is accurate for everyone. [00:22:21] Else’s was just kind of like, this is, this is no longer logical. This is now outta the point where it is. It is, you know, like taking all these precautions and doing all this stuff, isn’t actually stopping anything. And then it would also get to the point where, like in Seattle, we would have certain things where you would have to show your, your vaccination certificate to eat at a restaurant, which is fine. [00:22:43] And, but they would be like, okay, you have to wear a mask until you get to the table, then you can take your mask off. [00:22:49] Jeff: and then everybody’s got their masks off for the next two hours as they talk loudly and laugh and [00:22:53] Christina: Well, and, and that was, and that was acceptable. Like, it wasn’t even a thing. Like they would say, oh, put your mask on when you’re not eating or drinking that [00:23:00] wasn’t, it. It was like, you have to wear the mask while you walk from the hostess, stand to the table and then it can come off. [00:23:07] And so I’m sorry, but that’s performative and stupid. Like either the mask works or it doesn’t, and in many cases, the cloth masks don’t work. So like, what’s, you’ve already seen that I’m vaccinated. So what’s the point, right? [00:23:22] Jeff: And like two, two things at that period that were happening. One, we were starting to realize, oh, this cloth mask thing, we are not gonna continue that everyone gets in, you know, an N 95 or whatever, but also around that November, December 21 time, that’s when I remember realizing when I was in businesses in Minneapolis and half the people were masked, the people who masked were almost definitely the people who were vaccinated. [00:23:51] Right. Cause those were the people that were willing to be like, yeah, no, I’ll do this. I’ll do this both because it’s needed and it’s symbolic. Right? Like, and, and that was, I [00:24:00] remember at that moment just being like, oh my God, this is crazy. [00:24:03] Christina: Exactly. And, and I guess for me as like, I kind of lost the symbolism aspect, I was like, look, I’ll do again. I’ll do whatever the guidelines tell me to do. Um, and I’ll do whatever people I’m around want to do to be comfortable. And I’m okay with that. What I’m not gonna do is just for symbolism sake. And also it’s absolutely stupid to be like, it’s okay in this five foot area, like you ha are required to have a mask, but in this five foot area, you don’t like. [00:24:34] Jeff: Yeah, it’s dizzying. [00:24:35] Christina: It it’s stupid. It’s absolutely stupid. At that point, it just becomes like bureaucracy. And so that, that, that to me was that those are things, that many things that broke me over the pandemic, but we’ve been talking too much about this. I, I apologize. You have a, you have a big list of questions of topic, a topic list. [00:24:51] You said you have some questions for me. So I would love to hear your questions. [00:24:56] Jeff: They’re just questions that I’ve meant to ask you from the first time I was [00:25:00] on the podcast. So one is. Back in the day you had, uh, uh, you were writing a blog for USA today, coaching American idol participants. And I want to hear how that came about and anything that is of note about that experience. [00:25:19] It’s true. Right? [00:25:20] Christina: it? No, that’s 100% true. That was my first professional writing experience. I was in college and [00:25:25] Jeff: were in college. How [00:25:26] Christina: I was in college. Uh, I was like 22, 23. [00:25:29] Jeff: Okay, how did you get it? [00:25:31] Christina: Uh, I was a block comment. [00:25:33] Jeff: Nice on the blog. [00:25:35] Christina: On the blog. So, so the, the, then music editor at, uh, USA today, he had his music blog and he had an American idol blog. And I used to watch American idol with my parents actually, like it was like kind of our show. [00:25:47] We always enjoyed watching it. And you know, this was back when it was the number one show on television. So this is back when it was like, you know, it’s peak. And I would comment kind of on like my opinions of the music industry and of the [00:26:00] contestants and how things were going. But I would also comment on his general music blog and he liked my commentary and he thought I was a good writer and thought I was funny and reached out to me and said, we’re putting together a panel of coaches that will, there will be a column in the paper, you know, every whatever day it was, where they’ll be giving advice to the contestants. [00:26:20] And, um, and then it’ll be a longer version that’ll run online. And would you like to do this. I was like, I was like, yeah, are you kidding me? That’d be amazing. So I was in the paper every week and like, my photo was, was there and then a longer version was online. And, um, I got, I got paid $1,500, uh, which was not a lot of money, but I, I thought it was [00:26:41] Jeff: what? For each column. [00:26:42] Christina: no period [00:26:43] Jeff: Okay. Got it. You got 1500. How long did you do it? [00:26:47] Christina: whatever the length that the season was. [00:26:48] So like 12 weeks, I guess. [00:26:49] Jeff: Okay, got it. Yep. [00:26:51] Christina: And, uh, so not a lot of money, but I’d never done anything, you know, professionally before. And, uh, I bought a black MacBook with it that I named Simon because Simon [00:27:00] cow wears a black t-shirt, you know, and, and American idol and inadvertently paid for, you know, my career and no one, it was amazing. [00:27:06] Um, what was so great about it is that gave me the confidence then to. So blogging jobs, which then led to my professional career, because that gave me the confidence to say, oh, well, I’m, if I was good enough to write here, you know, about something that I am not qualified really, to comment on the same way that, you know, cuz it was, it was some actual industry professionals. [00:27:26] And then me who was just like the fan, um, then, then like, okay then clearly my writing is good enough that I could, I could write, you know, for a blog that pays me $10 a post. Um, and, and which then led to led to a much more lucrative career. Yeah. But no, it all came from blog comments. It’s, it’s one of those stories. [00:27:46] I still can’t believe that that happened because even in 2007, when that happened, that was not a common. Thing like that, that seemed like that was like a, a fantasy of someone like being like, [00:28:00] you know, somebody being like literally like, you know, lifted from the blog comments and, and lifted up into, you know, like, you know, a stardom and, and wasn’t stardom, but it was definitely, um, I remember being in a class, I was taking this journalism class and the teacher was terrible and she sucked and she hated me. [00:28:18] And she, um, cause I would ask questions about like, what about blogging? What about, you know, digital media, new media as they’re calling it then. And she was really dismissive of it. She was really dismissive of it. And so I was then immediately dismissive of her. Cause I was like, whatever, and I wasn’t gonna tell her, well, you know, I got a job writing because I blog commentary. [00:28:38] Like, didn’t, didn’t say that. But one day somebody in the class had a USA today and they saw my photo. And then Christina, is this you? I was like, yeah. And they’re like, oh my God, Christina’s in the paper. And then, you know, I had to explain, yeah, I have a, a weekly, you know, thing that comes out and the teacher, she was mad. [00:28:54] She was like, how did you get this? And I was like, yeah, I commented on the music. Editor’s blogs. [00:29:00] And, and he liked me. And she was like, well, you know, don’t expect, she basically was like, don’t expect this to turn into anything. [00:29:06] Jeff: Oh, my [00:29:06] Christina: And, [00:29:07] Jeff: like a bad high school [00:29:08] Christina: it really does. Right. And this is college completely, you know, she was just so completely foreign to her. [00:29:13] And I was just kind of like, and I didn’t argue, I wasn’t gonna say anything cuz in my mind I was already like lady, if I want this as a career. And I, and I thought that I kind of did at that point, I was like, I’m going to be successful. Like. [00:29:25] Jeff: Yeah. [00:29:26] Christina: You know, like, fuck you, you know what I mean? But, but it, but, but it, it, it, it was like, it was, it, it was even then though it was unbelievable that it happened, so, yeah, that’s it’s um, yeah, [00:29:40] Jeff: Were you, um, were you the, were you commenting on lots of different blogs or was it mostly that one? [00:29:46] Christina: it was, it was, I mean, I commented both, both of his music, blogs. I would come on other blogs too, though. Like I had, you know, I would comment on, on sites that I like to read. Like I was a Gawker commenter back when you had to audition to, to, uh, be in the goer comments [00:29:59] Jeff: that’s [00:30:00] right. What, what did that, what did that actually, uh, what was that about? How, how did you have to do that? [00:30:05] Christina: oh, they would just basically choose that you were funny enough and in that regard or smart enough, and in that regard, I was smarter. I knew that I was like, I might not be witty enough for Gawker. This is like 2004, maybe. Right. So this was a couple years before the, the idle thing happened, but I, I was, I was like, mm, I might not be good enough to stand Toto toe with the best goer commenters, cuz at the time, like at that era, the comments on go were almost as good as the site itself. [00:30:35] And like that was the like media and, and kind of, you know, like, like a New York kind of gossip and culture and like, you know, like that, that was like the blog. Right. But won, get which they owned then had a much more liberal policy in terms of approving commenters. So I got approved to be a won, get commenter, which then in turn made me a Gawker commenter. [00:30:57] Jeff: And who was, who was editing? Won get at that [00:31:00] time [00:31:00] Christina: Anna Marie Cox. [00:31:01] Jeff: it was Anne Marie. Was it always Anna Marie Cox. [00:31:03] Christina: No, she was the original, then I think she got hired away by time or someone. And then other people took over and then eventually like Nick DIDNT sold, won, get to someone else. And then I think won get still exists. But I think they’d like are independent now, but yeah. So when it was the honorary Cox era, I was a, a, I basically like did an in run around the system and I was like, okay, if I’m a prude as a won, get commenter, then I can comment on Gawker. [00:31:31] Um, and, and then that, like, you know, I’m sure I also commented on in gadget and Gizmoto and things like that. But like Gawker was like the apex, because, you know, they like you had to audition. Like they, they would even do this thing back. Such a different time in, in internet things, because this before, like the spam took over the, the comments and, and everything like where they would like have like comments of the week, but they would also have this thing where they would basically like put things up for vote, be like, should we ban this commenter or not? [00:31:58] And like the people like [00:32:00] would, would, you know, kind of comment, like based on like, like bad comments of the weekly, it was, it was brutal, but it was funny and it was such a completely different time than now. It’s so funny to think back about, um, one of the saddest things. That happened when they did the Gawker archive, when Gawker was went bankrupt and, and then Univision for legal reasons, couldn’t keep the site. [00:32:20] Um, the archive team did archive it and, and, um, but honestly also the most of that work happened behind the scenes from, from the, um, engineers who worked at, at, uh, goer media group who like went through the process of, of archiving the old site. But when they did that, the comments for most, for most of the blogs were not archived because of the, the JavaScript and other stuff. [00:32:41] They just didn’t have time. And so the, the comments which were in many cases, so much a part of the whole thing don’t exist. Um, there are some things like if you go far, far, far back on the way back machine, you might see some things, but just because of how JavaScript for commenting server side stuff would work, cuz it was usually, you know, like, like [00:33:00] Ken J was its own platform. [00:33:02] You know, the, the way that it would usually maybe be stored on another server or whatnot, like it’s not, they don’t come up. So it’s one of those things where, um, like there’s this, this amazing part of history that is just sort of gone. Um, and, uh, and, and it’s, it’s sad. Yeah. [00:33:19] Jeff: Right man. I, you know, I don’t think I’ve thought enough about the loss of comments when you also, you know, I often, I mean, selfishly so much work I’ve done has been lost because of media [00:33:33] Christina: going under mm-hmm [00:33:34] Jeff: yeah. Going under, or just doing a, a, you know, redesign in a relaunch and not thinking through the most basic things about what would happen to the archives. [00:33:45] Um, but I admit that I hadn’t thought about the fact that you’ve also lost all those comments, um, which is a big deal, [00:33:53] Christina: No, it is a big deal. Cause that was a huge part of how communication happened, like pre Twitter and Facebook and, and those types of [00:34:00] things. Like you’re, you’re, you’re back and forth. Like were your comment sections and, and a lot of people built relationships and friendships and things there [00:34:07] Jeff: Yeah. In the comment sections, right? Like you would on Twitter in the early days of Twitter, to [00:34:12] Christina: 100%. No, exactly. Right. I mean, and I think that’s one of the reasons why most organizations have gotten rid of comments is they’re like, oh, people will just use Facebook or Twitter or, you know, Instagram or whatever. Um, and also because moderating them becomes difficult, you know, not just for spam, but, you know, as things got bigger and bigger, like you would have more polarizing things, but like, yeah, like I, I owe my blog career to being a blog commenter and I definitely was always somebody who would, would post in comments. [00:34:41] Like I’m always writing letters to the editor when I was like nine years old though. [00:34:45] Jeff: Who were you? What about, what about what? [00:34:47] Christina: Oh, so I’ll never forget this because I got a letter back. Um, they were sort of appreciative, but they weren’t really, so there was a, an article in glamor magazine about depo, Vera being [00:35:00] given to rapists to basically kind of like, um, you know, prevent them, like they thought like, oh, this will be a way to like lower their sex drive or whatever. [00:35:08] And like, you know, have like some sort of recidivism, but the way that the story was written, as I recall it, and, and this is many, many, many years ago was, um, and in many ways kind of like overly kind to the rapist and, and, and, and was like overly sympathetic. And I was as a nine year old, I was, it was my mom’s glamor magazine. [00:35:33] No, it wasn’t glamor. It was red book. Well, no, it was red book. I think it was red book or glamor. It was one or the other, but it was my mom’s regardless. And I remember reading this and being just very bothered and I wrote a letter to the editor. Um, you know, basically like expressing my, you know, I was handwritten and like, I signed it, my name, my, my name, my age, and it wasn’t published, but most of the other published letters were of my same opinion.[00:36:00] [00:36:00] And, um, and you know, I got something back from, from, from them basically. Like, we appreciate your comment, you know, but we, you know, are committed to this, that and the other, you know, and, and it was just kind of one of those kind of brush off things, but it was, um, but I was in sense enough by it that my mom was like, no, they had letters to the editor. [00:36:16] You need to write one. And, um, and that was kind of like my first kind of experience with that. And I think that I had a letter that are published an entertainment weekly, or I think it was entertainment weekly when I was in high school. I remember being very proud of that. Like that was like a massive thing, you know, that. [00:36:33] Jeff: was that about? [00:36:34] Christina: I don’t remember that. I don’t remember, but, but I, but one of my comments was, was in entertainment weekly, um, or, or some entertainment magazine, I think it was entertainment weekly. And, and I was like, very excited by that. And now I was just kind of like, oh my gosh, like my name like Christina w you know, from Atlanta or whatever is, is here. [00:36:51] And like, that was like you, that was like a big deal. Right? Like that. And that was the sort of thing that cuz I always loved magazines and, and loved that type of stuff. And I [00:37:00] was like, so, so blog comments made complete sense to me. [00:37:04] Jeff: I love it. I, I remember I used to tell, like, if I was, when I was working for like, even like small media organizations and someone would say like, how do I get a job at a media organization? It was like, back in the day, it really felt like some, you know, if you wrote well, somewhere on the internet, it could help you to get a job. [00:37:27] Now that may have been tr true for a certain kind of person. For sure. Like, I don’t even know if this is real, except for your example. [00:37:36] Christina: Yeah, there were, I mean, I know a number of people who, again, it’s rare, one-offs you hear about it? But what I would say is, and I would still say this to this day that it’s like, if you wanna be a writer, you need to write. And obviously it’s harder now to get attention and, and to get like people to pay attention to you because there’s so much more of it out there, but like, you have to get in the habit of writing every day. [00:37:59] Like, I don’t think I [00:38:00] would’ve been as good, um, of a commenter on the American idol blog. Cause I don’t or the music blog and I was commenting, you know, like he would post several things a day and I would post comments and I was one of the active people there. Right. And then the community develops, there’s a back and forth if I wasn’t like blogging personally, like on my live journal. [00:38:17] And if I wasn’t, you know, you know what I mean? Like if I wasn’t, if I didn’t have that kind of practiced thing of I’m going to write every day. And, and, and I think that, that I, I was. I was positioned at the right time, right place and right. Type of mindset where like blogging made complete sense to me. [00:38:35] And, and so that wave of journalism and that change of the guard from print to digital, I never did the print stuff. Like I was in print, but I didn’t have to write for like, like they, I had an editor who’d cut the column down. Like I, wasn’t having to worry about like, how many inches is this and how many words and how to frame it. [00:38:51] Like, I never had to do any of that. Right. Like I always was even, even in college, like I didn’t write for the school newspaper I wrote for the school, like digital [00:39:00] magazine, like, you know, like, so I was always digital because I just got it. Um, because I was just primed at that right place, right time. But like, when I, when I mentor younger writers now, and I don’t know what your advice is, but my advice is always just first and foremost. [00:39:17] Right? Like even if no one’s reading it. You know, get in the habit of, of writing and, and, you know, doing the work because that is, you think that’s obvious, but there are so many people who go to prestigious journalism schools and can’t write for shit and, and, you know, like spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on these things and can’t write for shit and don’t do it and don’t have a voice and don’t have like a, a way of writing. [00:39:45] And, and that, that, I think, like you only get better at it by doing it. [00:39:51] Jeff: yeah, I’m really bad at giving advice about writing. I do, but the one thing that I tend to say is just wherever [00:40:00] you write, if you want to be a writer, anything you’ve written as an editorial product, like, and, and if anyone trying to hire you is like, Uh, you know, savvy at all, they’ll wind up looking at that stuff. [00:40:14] And so, like, it doesn’t mean like censor yourself. It certainly doesn’t mean like, if you think you want to, you know, work in public radio, write like a public radio script writer, like don’t do that. Like write your, write your heart, like write who you are, you know, and realize that I just had to tell this to my son when he was my son’s really Google language. [00:40:34] He’s a teenager. Um, and he joined Reddit a couple years ago and I was like, look like he already knew what he was getting into. Like he had been, you know, following different sub Reddits for a long time. So he knew how people can be. Um, and I was just like, look, you do what you want. I can’t control it, nor would I try to control it in any like serious way, cuz that’s uh, just a complete farce given the way the internet [00:41:00] works. [00:41:00] Um, and that you are a private person, but it’s like just try not to be an asshole. like, if you can just manage to not be an asshole, then cuz this stuff’s gonna be with you the rest of your life. [00:41:12] Christina: right. Or, or at least, or, or at least use like a username that then you’d never use again, or don’t ever, that’s never linked back to you. Right? Like if you’re going to be an asshole, cause we’ve all had those times. then don’t have it tied to like the username that you use your whole life. Like that’s, that’s the, the thing, but like, I have people who there was a Simpsons forum, it was called no homers that I was on for a long time. [00:41:34] For years, people from that forum knew me and they would see me on TV or they would see other things. And I would, I would find weird peeing back store. I see things on Twitter and they they’d be like, oh my God, film girl is on TV. You know, like these were people who knew me from like that life. And they were really proud of me, which was really nice, you know, but like they literally saw me go from like college student Simpsons nerd fan to, you know, someone who’s on television and like made it right. [00:41:58] And, but, but [00:42:00] I was always myself in those things. And, and, you know, to your point, wasn’t an asshole. There were things that I lurked on and there were things that I’m sure I was mean and, and bad on, you know, and stuff. But you know, that thankfully most of have been lost to time. And some of them were under usernames that are not associated with me at all, but it was, you know, [00:42:20] Jeff: like film, gal [00:42:22] Christina: I mean would be completely different. Right? Like, I was always like my OPSEC as, as they say was, was always fairly good to your point, because even back then, I was like smart enough to have an instinct that like this stuff might come back, you know? But, but yeah. I mean, that’s good advice to your son. It’s like, yeah, this stuff will stick around and, and not in me, I’m like, like for Reddit, I’m like, okay, well, like delete your account. [00:42:47] You can delete the account. I mean, people can find certain things, but it would take, it would take be much harder or like use a different username. You know? Like if you’re not super happy with some stuff, then just start a new username. Yeah. You’re gonna be starting over, [00:43:00] but it’s but, but it’s okay. Cuz especially when you’re like in high school and stuff, right. [00:43:03] Like I also think, and it’s weird because we go as a culture, we go back and forth on this, where. When I started working like more professionally, like I remember like even the USA today stuff, I was like, and this was early, like Facebook was still college only. So I didn’t have to really do a lot of the stuff where I had to like private all my things. [00:43:24] But like when I got my job at blogging, like yeah, I had to kind of lock down some of my college stuff and I was like, okay. You know, I actually learned this the hard way where I’d uploaded something to flicker for a test for a, for a post, for download squad and R I P and people found all my photos because they just looked at like, whatever the URL and the screenshot was. [00:43:51] And that kind of was, I was like, oh, and this was like 2007. And I was. [00:44:00] okay. I have to be way more careful. And if I’m now in any way, public than, than people on the internet can draw these conclusions. And I was not famous. I didn’t have, I wasn’t a public figure of any stretch of the imagination and, and, uh, you know, didn’t have any sort of following at all, but I learned that and I was like, oh, okay. [00:44:17] I have to separate these things. And like, when I got my job at Mashable, by then, I’d already like, had all of the sorority party photos and all that stuff, you know, that was already like archived. Cuz at that point, when I got that job in 2009, I had, I don’t know, I had probably 10,000 followers on Twitter, which was significant for that time. [00:44:35] But Mashable was a massive, massive deal in certain circles. Like it was a massive blog and we had massive traffic and I knew, and because we did comment, we did, you know, have back and forth in the comments and whatnot. And because it was one of those things where I was like, oh, okay. So my, my personal life online has. [00:44:56] Is now no longer really going to be a thing the same way. [00:45:00] And so at like a young age, I had to sort of realize, and I’m glad I had this lesson because I, I then would write posts. I would have to write posts about people who would get canceled, where they would find bad tweets or they’d find, you know, stuff that they did in that. [00:45:12] And like, I’m not a fan of that. Like, I’m not a fan of like taking people’s like stuff they do on their personal, not public, you know, Facebook. And they’re like, oh, this teacher said this and we’re gonna fire them. Like, I think that’s fucked. Like, even if I don’t agree with what the person said, I’m not a fan of that, but we’ve seen this happen now for 15 years where you go back and forth where sometimes people are like, okay, well this was a different time and place and this was a child, so we’ll give them a pass. [00:45:35] And then you also have the, the same, you know, era you’ll have people who are like, it doesn’t matter. You know, that, that, that it was a child who wrote this they’re canceled forever. Right. So it, it it’s, we, we still haven’t decided and it’s kind of fucked up cuz I it’s going to happen. Probably like next time we actually have like non Arians, like running for office when, or Arians, whatever, you know, their [00:46:00] they’re um, thing is when we have actual like millennials, like running for president social media. [00:46:06] And what people have said in their past is going to become political issues and we’re going to have to start deciding. What, what, like breaks we give, cuz this is just gonna become part of real life, right? Like it, it similar to the way, like if you wrote an op-ed for college, you know, that could come into something. [00:46:22] Um, and I think most people would, would dismiss some of it. Um, it would necessarily be like a, a career ending move, but it is going to be a thing where a tweet you sent when you were 14 years old is going to be used in someone’s political campaign against you. And, and it’s it’s, which is unfortunate to me, but that’s just kind of like this, this weird place where we are. [00:46:44] And so I, I feel [00:46:45] Jeff: occurs to me there’s this, you know, there’s this thing that’s really probably ending with the, the, with the boomers as politicians. But like, there are these politicians who have known from a young age, they were going to be, uh, [00:47:00] trying to get some sort of office. Right. And because of that, the paper trail is like nothing, right? [00:47:05] Like it’s like meticulously, trimmed along the way in the, in the future. When everybody’s got this digital history, that’s gonna seem real weird. Right? Like that’s not gonna be like. Oh, [00:47:18] Christina: well, I would hope so. [00:47:19] Jeff: because there’s nothing it’s gonna be like, wait, wait. [00:47:21] Christina: Why don’t you have anything? [00:47:23] Jeff: yeah. [00:47:24] Christina: Right. Well, and, and, and I wonder about that and I hope that that happens, but like, I’ll say this, I didn’t ever have any, like, I really didn’t ever think I was gonna have photo aspirations, but when I was 16 or 17, I was part of some independent film that I didn’t get paid any money on. [00:47:40] And, and we wound up doing kind of that film. We didn’t really have any funding for. And so we then tried to shoot kind of a documentary thing this back when documentaries were a big deal. Um, this was like 2000. And, um, so we had a party in shop documentary and I was underage and drunk and I made some comments, um, about stuff. [00:47:59] And [00:48:00] when I made them at the time and I’m like 16, right. [00:48:03] Jeff: yeah. [00:48:04] Christina: I was like, holy shit. If this video, I was like, well, there goes my political career. Like I was drunk and underage and all that stuff. And I was still like, holy shit. Well just, just blew my political career if that ever comes out. And I don’t think that video ever will come out. [00:48:17] Like, I I’m sure that it’s long gone. It’s never been on the internet or anything, but like, I, I, I don’t know what this says about me, that I had like an awareness at that young of an age about that stuff. But now you’re right. Like if you don’t have those things, although a lot of kids do lock down their social media profiles and their private, but screen caps and things exist. [00:48:38] It is going to be weird though, to be like, I, I, at least I hope where people are gonna be like, yeah, I was an idiot online. Like I hope that’s what happens. Like I hope that’s the weekend as a society, except yeah. [00:48:52] Jeff: outside of stuff that is obviously harmful or threatening [00:48:55] Christina: Right, right. That’s what I’m saying, right? Like, like, like being a shit Lord online. I don’t think when [00:49:00] you’re a teenager or even like in early college, I don’t think that should preclude you 20 years later from being a different person. [00:49:06] Because if, if the worst things I’ve ever said on, if that I’ve ever said on the internet, people wanted to hold me accountable for today that I said, when I was, you know, in college, I’m sorry. I think that’s fucked. I think that’s stupid. Right. And, and I, I’m not gonna hold anybody else to those standards either. [00:49:22] Um, especially if every other indication they’ve made in their life shows that they’re different. Right. I’m not going to assume that that, that the edge Lord shit that you did or, or the impolite stuff or the stuff that was funny and was allowed, then that is no longer acceptable by today’s standards or like was, is going to invalidate somebody’s ability to, you know, have a professional job. [00:49:46] Right. Like, I, I think that, I hope that we can get to that point as a culture where we can all just kind of acknowledge. Yeah. We’re all, you know, we’ve all been those, that asshole kid online, that’s part of growing up [00:50:00] on the internet. And I don’t know if, if, but I, but I don’t know if that’s, if that’s gonna be the case or. [00:50:05] Jeff: mm-hmm yeah, that’s interesting. I, well, I, I watch it curiously as someone who was past that point in my life when the internet and, and being a participant in the internet became a thing. Um, I think I was pretty set in a way of, of communicating in the world by the time that happened. So it was mercifully [00:50:25] Christina: No, exactly. That’s what I’m saying. So that’s why I think like, like your, your, your son’s, your, your son’s like their generation especially is really gonna deal with this. But, but I really do think it’ll be like, when we have millennials running for president, it is going to become like a thing, because that’s, that’s when you’re, you know, again, like, like my online history, like if you really wanted to be real with it, like goes back to me, literally being in middle school. [00:50:47] So, and, and, and, and, and, and I’m an older millennial, so, you know, for, for anybody who’s after me, then, then it’s, it’s even younger. Right. So it, so it’s, it’s becomes one of those things where [00:51:00] I, I don’t know, I, I hope that we can be sane about it. Um, You have some other questions we’ve only got, like, we don’t have much more time left, but, but which, what do you wanna talk about? [00:51:08] Do you wanna [00:51:08] Jeff: Well actually, if we wanted to, I’m looking. Yeah. If we wanted to go into gratitude, I could make my part. Sorry. I could make my part an extended gratitude cause I wanted to, I wanted to bring up the play date one more [00:51:21] Christina: yeah, of course Floyd. Absolutely. Let’s talk about, let’s talk [00:51:24] Jeff: should I do that for a few minutes? And then you can pick something if you wish. [00:51:28] Christina: absolutely. [00:51:29] Jeff: so to describe play date again, uh, this, you know, it’s created by the company, panic who panic does so, or did so much, but do what do they do now? What are their main things? Is it the [00:51:40] Christina: They have Nova the text editor, [00:51:42] Jeff: Nova, the text editor. What am I thinking? Sorry. [00:51:45] Christina: transmit, the FTP client. Um, they, they, they published games like they published, um, um, untitled goose. [00:51:54] Jeff: Oh, they did untitled goose game. [00:51:56] Christina: Yeah, so they didn’t develop it, but they’re the publisher. Um, [00:52:00] and, uh, and, and, and the play date, and, you know, like their, like, you know, but their history of being like some of like the, the greatest Mac apps of all time, I [00:52:08] Jeff: Right. Where, where would I, where would, where did you first encounter panic? [00:52:14] Christina: ion, which was like their, like the like win amp for, for Mac. This was like a Mac app in, in like the, the, like the early, it was like an MP3 player, like in the late nineties, early two thousands. [00:52:24] Jeff: yeah, [00:52:25] Christina: And that was, that was great. Um, and, and then like, I don’t know, like when it became like a big like Mac app person, like they made some of the best ones, like they made an app called candy bar. [00:52:36] They would let you like, change the icons and like the themes of your Mac, which was awesome. And they had, um, you know, I remember when Koda came out, which was like, you know, their, like, which was amazing, which had like, you know, CSS editor and an FTP client and like a text editor all in one. So you could like edit, you know, do all of your web projects. [00:52:54] It was great. Um, I don’t know. I’ve just, I’ve always been a really, really big panic [00:53:00] fan. [00:53:00] Jeff: I came on board with Coda and I mean, so given all of that kind of rich history, especially rich, very literally aesthetically colorful history, right. Um, the fact that they’re behind this very simple, this very elegant handheld gaming console that happens to have a crank on it. Um, which is this thing called the play date, which Christina, I know you have, uh, and which I covet and dream about. [00:53:29] Um, it’s a play date. Uh, the play date is something that you can kind of design for yourself. Which is super cool. If you got the play date today, there are already a bunch of kind of games people have made for it. Um, so you can just like dive right in, but then they’ve made this environment that actually makes it a lot easier for me because I want a play date, but they’re not gonna be available till 20, 23. [00:53:53] Right. And so what they have online is the play date SDK, which has a simulator for the play [00:54:00] date, which is super cool and beautifully done. It has something called caps, which is an online bitmap font, bitmap font editors. You can make your own, uh, font. Um, and then they have something called pulp, which is like a web based game editor. [00:54:15] And it helps you do all sorts of things, like make a song for your game or sounds, or the sprites or whatever. And like, as someone who has seen a lot of, sort of, Hey, design, your own game and this web interface stuff through my kids, I found this to be just like lovely and something I absolutely want to engage in. [00:54:34] And you have this, like, you have this like very visual editing. System, but they also have their own scripting language called pulp script. So basically panics created this like physical object for which you can do all of these wonderful things, but you can do all of those things without having the physical object, which is lucky, cuz in this planet, on this planet, we have a chip shortage and if you wanted to get the play date right now, you’re [00:55:00] gonna, you’re gonna buy it. [00:55:00] And then you’re gonna wait till sometime in 2023. And so my aptitude is actually for their SDK environment and how much thought they put into creating these interfaces. So you can do some of these really simple, simple looking things like create your own bit mat file bit. I can’t say that’s hard to say it’s like rural juror bitmap font. [00:55:22] Yeah. so anyway, panic. Amazing. Um, and I just wanted to say Christina, we’ve talked about this once briefly before, but I would love to hear your endorsement for the thing. [00:55:33] Christina: Yeah, no, I think it’s a great little device, right? So it’s, it’s unfortunately you have to wait as long as you did. Like, I was able to be part of the first batch of people who got it. Like I was within, I guess, like the first 8,000 orders or something. And so I got mine probably a month and a half after they started shipping, even though I was in the first batch, um, of, of stuff that I was able to get mine. [00:55:55] Um, I guess I got it back, like in may and. I love it. Like it’s, [00:56:00] it’s adorable. It’s um, it’s whimsical. So it’s one of these things. Like it is not going to be your full-time game machine. Like it’s a nice little kind of, you know, toy. Right. And it, and it’s designed, I think for people like me who have enough disposable income and have like nostalgia and also like the idea of both playing indie games, but also maybe building their own. [00:56:20] And, and I think that was the thing that for me, like they, they have this, this concept of season. So when you buy it, you’ll get two new games every week, um, for six weeks. And then, um, so you wind up with, you know, like, like, like 12 games and, and it, and there they’re fun, but there’s also additional games you can either buy or get for free from H IO or GitHub and the people have created for it. [00:56:42] And then you can build your own, you can side things it’s super easy to do. And people are even building things like GameBoy, emulators and, and other stuff, which is, which is really fun. Like, it’s just sort, it’s a really delightful little device, but, but like you, I think that all the work they’ve put into like the SD. [00:56:58] And like the, [00:57:00] the game engine stuff. Like I actually, I haven’t gotten too far with it. I’ve had other things going on, but I, I want to like build my own game. And the thing is, is the game development is so complex. Now there’s no way that I could even think about trying to do that on, on any other platform to be totally honest, right. [00:57:17] Like, like just both with my artistic skills and also just how much would go into like the, the programming and whatnot. And so the fact that I, I can come up with some ideas of, of like maybe creating my own like little, little small game, I think is, um, That even, even just as an exercise, like even if nobody else ever played it, I think is really fun. [00:57:38] And, and I appreciate that so much about, about panic and about like what this device is, you know, that, that it’s, I, I think that it, it’s not designed to be something that millions and millions of people own, like this is, this is for a specific audience, but I think it’s a really fun device and I’m really, really pleased with it. [00:57:55] And it’s incredibly well made and, um, you know, very, very proud of them. Cause [00:58:00] I know I first used it at XO XO, like a prototype, um, in, in 2019. And um, you know, I, I I’ve been waiting for this thing for, for years. And so I was really excited that, that I was able to get mine and, and um, you know, it’s, it’s really fun. [00:58:19] Jeff: That’s awesome. And how cool, um, that they have that this has been their journey, like when I think it was, so I wanted you to go through Pan’s history because it’s so fascinating to, to see them take this, turn into this very simple looking device that they’ve approached with all of their sort of aesthetic talent and, and care and everything else. [00:58:39] And like, again, I don’t know if this was planned or if it’s just how it ended up, but the fact that you can immerse yourself in this thing without having the physical item is something that I kind of wonder. Maybe that’s like a, an accidental model for things moving forward. As we deal with chip shortages. [00:58:56] Christina: Yeah, maybe. I mean, I think the definitely like they had to kind of [00:59:00] figure out a way early on as they were still working on stuff like, okay, how do we get people to develop this? And so maybe part of it was, you know, creating like a, an SDK maybe out of necessity. And then I think it becomes with the chip shortage even more important. [00:59:13] And, and Pan’s whole ethos. Like I still have someplace, so they sold these, this was, I don’t even know how many years ago, but they made Atari styled software boxes for their apps, like with the Atari drawing style and stuff. And like, they sold them on their web shop and I have them somewhere. So like they’ve always loved games and they’ve always loved this sort of retro nostalgia stuff. [00:59:34] Like that’s always been part of their ethos. And so the play date really fit with all of that, but yeah, I mean, what great timing to be able to have such a fully functional, you know, in SDK, so you can play. Before actually having it. So if you do pre-order one, you can, you know, like, okay, you’re gonna be waiting, you know, sometime into 20, 23 for it, but you, you can, you know, be able to, um, you, you can still like, [01:00:00] get the sense of what it’ll be like and, and, and try games out and things like that. [01:00:05] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. All right. I I’m convinced, I, I partly brought this topic up to convince myself to buy it. Um, and I’m convinced [01:00:13] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely, I mean, I think it is unfortunate that it’s like taking as, as, as long as, as it has, but, um, uh, they don’t have any control over that. Right? Like they, [01:00:24] Jeff: right. [01:00:25] Christina: it, it, it’s, it’s, it’s a crappy situation for them. Um, and I’m sure that they wish that they could do, you know, sell all the things. [01:00:32] But it’s interesting. Cause I got my pocket from a company called analog, which is basically an F PGA like game boy and game boy advance. Um, and so analog is a company that makes very expensive, but well designed, um, and beautifully designed like F PGAs of like exact, you know, like perfected, like, like one-to-one, um, like recreations of things like the super Nintendo or the Nintendo or the sake of Genesises. [01:00:55] And then the pocket handheld is kind of like, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s an expensive, [01:01:00] you know, GameBoy advance game, boy, color, whatever. Uh, you may have original game boy. And I got that a few months before I got the play date. And I’ll be honest with you. I’ve spent it a lot more time with the play date. [01:01:11] I think not the, the pocket is more, um, powerful and I can play real games on it and whatnot, uh, real games, meaning like real like games from my childhood for like Tetris and, and super Mario brothers and things like that. But I think the play date just has a lot of, um, you know, like. More more fun in terms of just it’s just whimsy. [01:01:35] I don’t know. I love it. [01:01:37] Jeff: Yeah. It’s like, it’s just one of those, one of those products that just is like beckoning you [01:01:42] Christina: Totally, totally. And like, I like, like I said, I think for, like, for, I think for like perfect people and not perfect people, I think that for certain people, this is just a really perfect product. That’s what I was trying to say for certain people. This is a really perfect product. It’s not for everyone, but for the people that it is for, I think that it’s like really [01:02:00] good. [01:02:00] So. [01:02:01] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. Awesome. You got some gratitude. [01:02:05] Christina: Yeah, I’m, uh, I’m trying to kind of, uh, narrow it down slash find something for my gratitude. Okay. Actually, this, this is one, um, I, uh, it’s not widely available yet. It is just in private preview, but it will, it will be coming open, but this is cool. So the visual studio code team just announced slash, um, I guess it’s, it’s an, I still don’t have access yet, but I will have it soon. [01:02:27] Um, from, from what they tell me a visual studio code server. And so what this is is one of my favorite parts of visual studio code for the last probably four years or three years or whatever has been there, remote development extension. And that has, um, basically means that you can, um, Have like, you know, code running on another machine and you can kind of like SSH or, uh, you know, do whatever else into it and then be accessing all of your builds and your extensions and stuff [01:03:00] using the web interface or, um, even like a local vs code instance on your, on your, um, you know, a laptop or, or Chromebook or iPad or, or, uh, what have you. [01:03:10] And so, um, it it’s been a, a really, really, um, great way to like for windows, for instance, this was, I think kind of it’s, it’s it’s original kind of conception was the idea would be like, okay, if I’m using the windows subsystem for a Linux, I want all my Linux tools and user land stuff. And so I can have all of, you know, like my versions of open SSL and I can have like, like my like new tool chain and I can have all of my versions of Python or, or, you know, note or whatever I want without having to, you know, deal with the complexities of having that running under windows. [01:03:43] I can have all that running in my, you know, fully, you know, baked like Linux environment, but I’m able to access that transparently using visual studio code for windows. So I’m using the native interface that I know and love. But all the tooling and everything is actually executing [01:04:00] on the Linux side. And that’s great. [01:04:03] And so you then saw a number of, of, of, um, you know, different, uh, uh, companies like the code server and, and GI pod and some other, um, People who would kind of create a way where you’re like, okay, you can run, you know, um, instances of a visual studio, um, in the cloud. And, and again, like, okay, I’ve got a VPs server somewhere that I’m paying five or $10 a month for, and that’s pretty powerful. [01:04:27] And I’m having that run all of my coding environment stuff, and then I’m just using whatever front end I want from whatever machine I happen to be on at the time, which is pretty powerful, uh, that then led to things like a visual studio code space or excuse me, GitHub code spaces, uh, which is like a, basically the same thing where it’s a cloud, um, based, uh, thing that you pay for. [01:04:48] And basically you can create a machine of how, what, however powerful you want it to be. And it’s running all of your, um, your, your code stuff, but you’re able to access it natively. In, or on the [01:05:00] web, in, in visual studio code, um, without having to mess up your own machine, install things locally that way. [01:05:07] And it makes it a really easy way to set up like dev boxes or do things for tutorials and, and other stuff. Um, but one of the things with that has been like, as much as like, I love get, have code spaces, like, okay, but what if I don’t wanna pay for it? What if I wanna run this locally in my server, my closet or something. [01:05:25] And so, um, the, the visual studio code team just announced, uh, a couple weeks ago, something called visual studio code server, which basically is they’re, they’re gonna be opensourcing and basically, you know, letting it it’s a CLI and a server code that you could run on your remote machine or wherever you wanna develop against. [01:05:43] And then you can, um, basically. Create whatever kinds of, of dev instances you would want there. And then kind of transparently like using, uh, vsco.dev access, those, those machines and instances. [01:06:00] So this will make developing on an iPad really, really easy. And, and, and, and, and it’ll be free or free insofar as like, you know, you just bring your own compute. [01:06:09] So if you wanted to install it on a VPs, you can, if you have a server in your closet, like I do, you can do that. Or if you have a more powerful home machine that you always have on and connected, and you want that to be kind of home base, and that’s where you want your builds and your Docker containers and all that stuff to live, you can do that. [01:06:24] But then from any of your other machines, you could just go to vsco.dev and like log in and have access to that stuff. Whether you’re on an iPad or a Chromebook or a laptop that doesn’t have those versions of, of Python or node or, or, you know, uh, C sharper or whatever installed, and you don’t have to go or even Docker, and you don’t have to go through that, that process of setting those things up. [01:06:46] You’re just remotely executing things. Um, basically in the cloud go kind of transparently, you know, in, you know, a native app or your web browser. [01:06:56] Jeff: Awesome. That’s awesome. [01:06:57] Christina: So, so, so vs code server, which, um, [01:07:00] again is in private preview, but it’ll be opened up to more people. You can, there’s a sign up form. We’ve got the links in the show notes, but I’m actually pretty excited about this. [01:07:07] So that’s, uh, that’s my pick. [01:07:10] Jeff: Nice. There it is. The first ever, uh, Christina, Jeff Overtired. [01:07:18] Christina: I like it. I like it. I, I, um, I, I would love to talk more about you. Like, I’d love to hear from you. We should have our own kind of like side chat sometime. I wanna hear about how you got into music, journalism and, and journalism in general. And like, I would love to like, hear, like what your, what your, um, process was in journey, [01:07:35] Jeff: it was largely to stumble without falling [01:07:40] Christina: which is great though. Right. Because cuz now you’ve been doing it for however many years. Like it’s it’s, which is really incredible. So [01:07:47] Jeff: Awesome. Well, we can always talk about that. Um, and uh, next week we’ll be back the three of us. [01:07:53] Christina: yep. [01:07:54] Jeff: Um, I sure hope you get some sleep. [01:07:57] Christina: Get some sleep chef. [01:07:59] Jeff: it’s some sleep[01:08:00]

Jeff is back and he has stories to tell. Lots of mental health in this one, plus tips for the savvy traveler. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Packing cubes Hyperjuice charger Cocoon backpacks Noteplan Astrofox Gifski and Gifski GUI (Mac App Store) Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Small P Prepper [00:00:00] Jeff: [00:00:03] Hello. Hello, ear holes across America and the world. This is, this is the Overtired podcast. I’m Jeff severance. Gunzel and I’m here with my cohosts, Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra. And we’re all back together. This is the reunion show. Um, it’s really great. Like most, uh, band reunions. I’m a little I’m, you know, I’ve gained a little weight. [00:00:26] I’ve got I’m a little, you know, my face is a little bigger. Um, but here I am. Let’s go. [00:00:33] Brett: Have you seen the, do you follow the circle? Jerks on Instagram? Just outta curiosity. [00:00:38] Jeff: No, I was never a fan. [00:00:40] Brett: Okay. [00:00:42] Jeff: I don’t wanna make you mad. I don’t wanna make you mad. [00:00:44] Brett: no, they just, they’re so old and they’re still doing it [00:00:48] Christina: Yeah, I, I don’t even know who the circle jerks are. [00:00:51] Brett: really [00:00:52] Christina: No, I have no. [00:00:53] Brett: live fast, die young. This is no. [00:00:57] Jeff: I know. Well, who the, [00:00:58] Brett: Old it’s [00:00:59] Jeff: are. I have [00:01:00] never gone through a whole album. [00:01:02] Brett: Old punk rock. [00:01:03] Christina: Okay. Okay. I mean, I felt like I heard some stuff. I probably would be familiar because like the punk rock of my generation, which is like, you know, like pop punk ripped that stuff off. But [00:01:14] Brett: don’t think they ever had a chart topper of any kind. [00:01:17] Christina: Oh no, I I’m not, I’m not saying that I’m saying like that stuff, like it becomes I interpolated and, and inspired and whatnot, but yeah, no, I, uh, I Nope. [00:01:27] Brett: So Jeff, you [00:01:28] Jeff: uh, when it, when it comes to, let me just say this, when it comes to the classic punk rock, I’ve always had this sort of attitude. This is true of hardcore too, where I just, I kind of reach back and I pick one or I pick two, so I’ve got black flag. Right. And, and, and I, I come forward with them when it came to hardcore, I had bad brains and I kind of moved forward in life with them, but I never really spread out in, in, uh, hardcore or in that early, especially west coast, [00:01:54] Brett: who’s your black, who’s your black flag front man of choice. [00:01:58] Jeff: Um, [00:02:00] I don’t know, I I’ll take Henry Rawlins. I liked them all. I just enjoyed it [00:02:04] Brett: same. Like, I like used to be like, oh, Chavo or bust and not man Henry Rollins. He, he was black flag. You, you can’t deny black flag with Henry Rollins. It, [00:02:15] Jeff: Well, and it was weird. Like he, you know, pictures of him all like muscled out and like squat kneeling on [00:02:21] Brett: uh, [00:02:22] Jeff: a little aggressive. Like there was the thing about black flag. And especially with him was like, there was just, there was definitely too much testosterone, but, but it was, it was a learning band for me. [00:02:33] It was a band that was a link in the chain and helped me understand how we got from one place to another. So that’s how I think of them. [00:02:40] Brett: yeah. [00:02:40] Jeff: Anyway. [00:02:41] Brett: So you got, you got the COVID Jeff. [00:02:43] Jeff: I got the COVID. Yeah, I happened to get COVID a few days before my family was supposed to leave for a meticulously planned trip to Kenya to visit, uh, a good friend of mine who has an organic farm there. [00:02:57] And then to also go to the coast of Kenya. Um, [00:03:00] and, uh, yeah, we had been planning that one for quite a while. Uh, and it was a huge disappointment and I had not gotten COVID yet. So this was my first COVID and I got it just in time to cancel like a really, really special trip. And because we booked a lot of that trip with points and because. [00:03:17] The way airlines are like . Whereas we had paid about $600 a person for our tickets that we were going to use to go, um, to rebook tickets ranged from 2000 to 9,000 per person. And, um, this just wasn’t gonna work out. And so, um, and I got really sick for a few days. Like I didn’t have the kind of like, ah, it’s just like having a head cold. [00:03:39] Like I had a few days of just rolling around being like, make it and, and, um, and then a few more days of just really intense, uh, fatigue and just feeling really, really out of it. My wife and I were both kind of relieved when on the day we should have been flying out. I felt really terrible, cuz it just would’ve been hard if I was, I [00:03:59] Christina: Oh, [00:04:00] yeah. [00:04:00] Jeff: if I was having like COVID light and I was just like, I’m fine. [00:04:03] And we [00:04:03] Christina: Oh no, [00:04:04] Jeff: is leaving. [00:04:05] Christina: 100%. Like, like yeah, no, no, you needed it to be all in. Were you able to get like, at least refunded your points and stuff or. [00:04:13] Jeff: everything was refunded. No problem with that. Thank God. And, um, and we were able to kind of pull ourselves together and actually like improvise a really fun family road trip out west where, uh, the kind of main anchor was Yellowstone, but really it was about just being in Wyoming, which my family had never been. [00:04:31] I love Wyoming. Um, and I love it way more than South Dakota, which neighbors, it, uh, Minnesota has South Dakota on one side and, uh, Wisconsin on the other. And there are, those are both states that just feel this sort of it’s like they have some kind of complex to announce their politics above all else. [00:04:49] And when you’re in Wyoming, man, we saw, we drove around Wyoming for three or four days. I saw one Trump flag, but you know, there’s a lot of Trump supporters [00:04:56] Christina: Oh, yeah, the whole state, the whole state is like mud Trump supporters. It’s [00:04:59] Brett: [00:05:00] all, [00:05:00] Christina: are like five people who live. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, it’s like, Montana’s the same way? Like, like there are like 10 people in each state. Um, yet they each get, you know, electoral college shows, but regardless. [00:05:13] Brett: Yeah. [00:05:14] Jeff: the boys when we were rolling into Wyoming, I’m like, here’s at the oath Wyoming. It’s like 2000 people, 5,000 horses and you know, maybe 20,000 guns. And you know, other than that, but I love Wyoming. I really do. I, it honestly feels like the west. It feels like the mythical west and that’s not all good. [00:05:31] Of course. Right. [00:05:32] Christina: sure. But no, but, but yet, [00:05:34] Jeff: Oh, it’s like going to another country for a, certainly for a Midwesterner and certainly for Midwestern teenage boys, you know? Um, so it was super cool. We pulled that together and just kind of improvised it along the way, because there had been a lot of flooding and the park had only just opened, uh, Yellowstone was actually pretty dead. [00:05:53] And so we didn’t have the experience of like, you know, massive car lines and whatever else. [00:06:00] And very importantly, there is something that my family refers to as the Gunzel South Dakota curse. My father in trying to take us on trips over the years had a lot of mishaps. The one that I most remember was being in South Dakota. [00:06:16] I think we were headed for Yellowstone, which I’ve never been to because of this. If that’s the case and all of our luggage was stolen by a motorcycle gang. [00:06:24] Christina: Oh, my [00:06:24] Jeff: And, and this was back in the day when like, you know, families were traveling with like cash, right. Or maybe checks, but mostly cash. And so we were, and they’re public school teachers, so we didn’t have a lot of money. [00:06:34] So we had to go to JC Penney and buy the cheapest, like shirts and shorts we could find. And I ended up with like a wardrobe of like clearance racks, South Dakota shirts that I had to wear the rest of the trip. And, and then eventually the luggage was found and actually mailed back to my father with maggot and everything. [00:06:54] I mean, like all kinds of weird bugs. And for some reason, the sheriff was like, here you go, there [00:07:00] was nothing in it. He’s like we found it, wanted to give it back to you. So anyhow, we broke the South Dakota. Curse, except for one thing, which is just a quick, very quick one thing. So I got the whole front end of my minivan fixed, uh, before we left for the trip, we picked it up and left for the trip, right. [00:07:18] And about two hours into our trip, our left front wheel starts rattling, like really intensely. We pull over. To sleep for the night so we can call a mechanic in the morning. My mechanic says, oh, I don’t think that’s a problem. You can, you can keep going. You know, but if you feel like it’s grave danger, bring it in. [00:07:35] And so there happened to be a mechanic next to our hotel. I brought it in and it turns out two of the bolts holding the caliper of important part of my brakes to my wheel had just fallen out on the trip. And we were in a situation where had we not pulled over it would’ve seized our wheel. And if we were on the highway, we could have just flipped. [00:07:53] And, and it would’ve been this just totally horrible accident. But the key is, this was before we got [00:08:00] into South Dakota. So the gun curse didn’t count. So we got it in time. We got it fixed and everything was beautiful from them, but that was chilling. And I just wanna say to people, if your mechanic says that bump is not a big deal, here’s why. [00:08:13] Don’t listen. [00:08:15] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. He’s just being a lazy ass. Holy shit. You could [00:08:18] Jeff: he was shook when I told him what it was, he was shook. He was like, that’s really bad. And [00:08:24] Christina: Yeah. Cuz that’s his fault. That’s 100% his [00:08:27] Jeff: Bad. Yeah, [00:08:28] Christina: exactly. That, that that’s him being fucking lazy and not like bolting the, the shit down [00:08:33] Jeff: or someone in the shop. Yeah. [00:08:35] Christina: and, and then being doubly lazy and being like, yeah, I don’t wanna check this out. It’s fine. [00:08:40] Jeff: Right, [00:08:40] Christina: Like honestly, like you need, you need a new mechanic. [00:08:44] Jeff: I’ve never had a mechanic, which this guy in Minnesota, in St. James Minnesota did, when he saw what was wrong. I’ve never had a mechanic say, you’re gonna wanna come out here and take a picture. just to like, you want evidence that these bolts were missing. [00:08:59] Christina: Yeah, no, totally. [00:09:00] And I’m just saying like, like, so thanks to the St. James Guy who, thankfully you’re not in, in South Dakota. Um, and also like listening to these stories, are you sure your dad wasn’t like John Hughes? Like, I, I know his stuff was like the Chicago land area, but like, are you sure? Cause this sounds like this sounds like, you know, um, vacation stuff, like, you know, national lampoons vacation stuff, like the motorcycle gang stealing the luggage, you know, almost having like the car, like literally fall apart because the brakes aren’t attacked. [00:09:30] Like this is, this is genuinely like, like national Lampoon stuff. [00:09:35] Jeff: It is amazing. It is amazing but we beat it. [00:09:39] Brett: without, without, uh, without violating any medical privacy for anyone, do you know how you got coronavirus? [00:09:48] Jeff: Um, you know, frankly, uh, and I’m really embarrassed to say this, that, like, I, I also understand how it happened and I shouldn’t, I’m not super embarrassed. Um, [00:10:00] we just like completely let our defenses down and EV and, and, and like that could have been it’s one thing, if we weren’t going on a vacation. But the fact that we were going on a vacation should have meant that we were masked everywhere, in my opinion, like in, in what happened with us and. And in one, just one very specific case. I went to a place that I know, well, my son, they were helping my son, uh, work on his vintage gaming PC. Um, and we all can, can appreciate this. It was like, it was how to load like an audio driver on windows 95 so he can play so he can get the full sound from doom [00:10:44] And this is a place that’s really basically empty. It’s like a really cool little space where they call it a retro tech thrift store. It’s called free geek in twin cities. And, um, It’s basically empty in the past. People were always wearing masks. And I, I know there are people that’ll [00:11:00] listen to this and like be banging their head against the, um, whatever device is playing this podcast. [00:11:06] But like, I was comfortable there and I felt like it had always been a place. I was comfortable. People were always wearing masks. And we were at a point here where everything was so, so low. We had not started to have this current, um, spike that we have. I think actually I was on the front end of that. Um, and so we sat in there for like three or four hours. [00:11:23] Couple people came and went and that’s the one time I know I was unasked for a long time in one place. And, and that might have well, have been what did it, so, [00:11:32] Christina: I mean, it could have been that it, it also could have been any other thing. I mean like the, the current variant is so contagious that even if you were masked, if you weren’t in an N 95, there’s, if you’re there for three or four hours and it could have been any other place and you’re around people, like when I got Omicron, it was, I was masked and I was triple vs. [00:11:50] And I was like a month out of my, I, I had my booster, like my second, you know, my, my first booster for like a month. Right. Like, so it, it still should have been, you [00:12:00] know, you would’ve thought like, like at its apex and I was masking everywhere. Didn’t matter, you know, like, like, like you, you, you, you can try to like, say yes, we were going on vacation. [00:12:11] We should have taken more precautions. I would argue, like, you still tested and, and figured this stuff out before you got on a plane. Right. [00:12:20] Jeff: Well, yeah, we were still testing all the time and you know, like for sure. And with me too, like the thing about me and masks is like, I mean, nobody can see me here, but I’ve sort of like, got like a, a big face with a beard. And when I put a mask on, I know I’m getting stuff in and stuff is going out. [00:12:38] There’s no mask I’ve ever found that where I feel like, oh, this is a good seal. Um, and so it could also be that I was masked somewhere and I got it, cuz this stuff is just moving around so fast. So, so I got it. [00:12:51] Brett: I’m getting ready for max stack this weekend and I’ve been more like we’re in the green right now, as far as community spread goes. [00:13:00] So I, I do let my, my guard down. Um, I, I went to the co-op without a mask this week in general. I’ve been pretty good about masking everywhere, just as a precaution, um, we’ll test before, uh, before we take off tomorrow, um, I do have at least one good friend who is missing because he tested positive and he is asymptomatic. [00:13:22] Like you were saying, like, you were thankful that you were symptomatic on the day you were supposed to leave. He’s asymptomatic. And that’s very frustrating to him, uh, because he feels fine, but you know, based on guidelines, gotta quarantine. [00:13:37] Jeff: Well in travels 10 days, you know, and we were just like, yeah, I respect that. We would. I mean, like Christina, to your point, like, I’m just glad I caught it before I went on two different planes to how many different countries, um, and brought it to a place that where whose numbers are actually pretty good, you know, like I’m super grateful that it was not a hard decision. [00:13:58] I mean, we were instantly just like, this is not [00:14:00] happening. You know, I can imagine, I, I know people, I, I can imagine people who would be like, well, if I’m symptomatic, I’ll just keep it quiet, you know? [00:14:07] Christina: Yeah, no. [00:14:08] Jeff: back in anymore. [00:14:09] Christina: Well, that’s what I was gonna say. Like, like there, there are a lot of people who, and, and I’m not even necessarily gonna, like some people I know who listen to this podcast will probably like wanna like condemn all those people, but I’m, I’m not going to, like, I can understand if you’re asymptomatic or, or not feeling bad. [00:14:25] And you know, it, you’re also maybe not, it’s not a PCR test and, and you don’t have to test to get out or to get in. And, and you’re like, fuck it. You know, I’ll just, again, the same as is, is any other kind of illness in the past? It’s not like people wouldn’t travel, you know, when they, when they were sick, you know, um, this is obviously different, but I’m just saying, I do understand. [00:14:47] I’m just glad that you caught it. Like it, to me, the, what would’ve been bad, would’ve been like, if you were not symptomatic or, or it was in the early things and you were on the plane, not just potentially getting people [00:15:00] sick, but then you being sick in Kenya, you know, sick on the airplane like that, would’ve just been, been awful. [00:15:06] Jeff: When it does seem to come so fast. My, my teenager was at a, a gathering with some friends the other night and at about 12 30, 1 of them just started instantly feeling like terrible. And then she tested and tested positive. [00:15:19] Christina: Yeah, that happened. [00:15:20] Jeff: fast. [00:15:21] Christina: Yeah, that happened with, and I, I was concerned before I, I was very concerned. I was testing before I, I went to, um, uh, Copenhagen because I had been around someone who it was the same thing. Like we were in the same space and we weren’t like super close near each other, but we were definitely in the, in the same like room and space. [00:15:38] And she just started feeling terrible and was like, I, I, I, I gotta go. And she was like, you know, cuz she, she gives me a ride home. Sometimes she was like, I can’t give you a ride today. I was like, that’s fine. I was like, no, you actually like need to leave and put a mask on and like leave if you’re not feeling good, you know? [00:15:51] But it like, it hit her like instantly and then she tested positive that night. And then I was freaked out cuz I was like, I’m supposed to get on a [00:16:00] plane in X days. I feel totally fine. You know, I, I, I was testing and I, I was okay, but, you know, but it was one of those things where I was like, I don’t wanna infect anyone, but I also don’t feel bad. [00:16:12] So, yeah. But so you’re right. Like I think it hits people real quick. [00:16:20] Jeff: definitely. And all through my trip, people coughing, sneezing, you know, like it was, it really feels, I mean, at least, I dunno if it’s like this for you all, but for me in Minneapolis, like once I got sick, um, right after that, we started hearing a just friend after friend, not people had been in contact with, to be clear, [00:16:38] Christina: Right, right. [00:16:38] Jeff: it just seemed like there’s a wave. [00:16:40] And then you have, you can look at the stance for your state, but they’re kind of meaningless [00:16:43] Christina: They are [00:16:44] Jeff: you know, [00:16:44] Christina: well, cuz they’re trailing indicators. Right. So I mean, and, and we we’ve seen now, you know, that there is like a surge in a lot of places, so yeah. I mean, people look it’s, this is not going away. This is never going to go away. We’re going to have to find ways to like deal with it. Um, I’m just glad that you were able [00:17:00] to like, you know, make, um, you know, eliminate out of the situation, have a really good family trip, see Yosemite and, and be, you know, like, like have like a great experience that way, get, get your points back and, and your money back on your trip, cuz like that would’ve been awful. [00:17:15] Um, and, and then, you know, figure out travel right now is also a shit show. So you might have dodged a little bit of a bullet, um, even in, in that regard, like it might be better like, you know, to replan when you can go back and, and visit your friend. Um, uh, and, and his farm, like when things are not as terrible, cuz the, the airports and, and. [00:17:35] That situation. It I’ve never ever it’s it’s bad. It’s bad. [00:17:40] Jeff: mm. Yeah. [00:17:43] Brett: Can I, uh, Can I tell you about a sponsor? [00:17:46] Jeff: You wanna tell us about a sponsor? Is it related to being sick or trying to cure yourself from it? [00:17:52] Brett: I cannot, I, I do not have a segue for this. [00:17:56] Jeff: Wrong sponsor. All right, go ahead. [00:17:57] Brett: do you know, I [00:18:00] could do something with like feeling safe in a mask and then feeling safe at home. [00:18:04] Christina: Yes. See, I was gonna say, I was gonna say I was gonna do that. That’s exactly perfect. [00:18:08] Brett: okay. Damn. All right. So, so worrying a mask can make you feel safe, but sometimes you wanna feel safe when you’re at home. [00:18:16] Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:18:16] Brett: Today’s episode of Overtired is brought to you by simply safe home security here at Overtired, we believe home should be the safest place on earth for every family. That’s why we recommend simply safe. [00:18:28] Simply safe is advanced whole home security that puts you your home and your family’s safety first. Here’s why we love it. Simply safe offers comprehensive protection, not only against intruders and burglary. But against expensive home hazards from flooding to fires with 24 7 professional monitoring, simply safes agents take action. [00:18:50] The moment a threat is detected dispatching police or first responders in an emergency. Even if you’re not home, simply safe uses [00:19:00] proprietary video verification technology so that monitoring agents can visually confirm the threat in order to get higher priority 9 1 1 dispatch monitoring plans are affordably priced at a dollar a day with no long term contract or hidden fees, because feeling safe at home shouldn’t break the bank. [00:19:19] You can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash Overtired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/ Overtired. That’s S I M P L I S a F E. Dot com slash Overtired. I edited, I edited this by the time people hear it, but man, that took me a couple takes. [00:19:47] There’s some real tongue twisters in there. [00:19:49] Christina: was gonna say lots of SSEs. Lots of SSEs. [00:19:53] Brett: Um, uh, Jeff, do you want to go ahead and tell us about tech expander while we’re, uh, we’re we’re on a little sponsor break. [00:19:58] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:19:58] Jeff: Yeah, I, I can, [00:20:00] I can do that for you. uh, get your team communicating faster so they can focus on what’s most important with text expander. Your team’s knowledge is at their fingertips. Get your whole team on the same page by getting information out of silos and into the hands of everyone that needs to use it. [00:20:16] You can share your team’s knowledge across departments. So your team is sending a unified message to your customers and isn’t spending time reinventing the wheel. Here’s how it works. First. You store it, keep your company’s most used emails, phrases, messaging, URLs, and more right within the text. Expander. [00:20:35] Within the text expander, uh right there. You know what? Put it right there in the text, expander over there by the microwave. Um and then you could share it. You can get your whole team access to all the content they need to use every day. Then you expand it, deploy the content you need with just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps you use. [00:20:56] It’s that easy text expander is available on Mac windows, [00:21:00] Chrome, iPhone, iPad windows 95. Um, Overtired listeners get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander. [00:21:15] Brett: Thanks tech expander. [00:21:17] Jeff: Thank you so [00:21:17] Brett: So there are people out there. I’m not gonna say like it’s a, a huge number of people, but they have begun referring to the mental health corner as the MHC. Like it’s their favorite part of the show and they’ve given it an initialism, the, the MHC. So you guys ready for the MHC? [00:21:39] Jeff: Mm. Yep. [00:21:41] Brett: Jeff? I feel like. [00:21:43] Jeff: I live my whole life in the MHC. [00:21:45] Brett: It’s been a while. Let’s hear from Jeff. [00:21:47] Christina: Absolutely [00:21:48] Jeff: hear, let’s hear from Jeff. Um, my mental health corner, my MHC. Um, well, one thing is post COVID. Uh, [00:22:00] I’ve had some pretty intense brain fog and I just can’t tell for sure if I should attribute it to medication to stress or to long COVID pew, pew, pew. I don’t know what we would do after we say long COVID, but anyway, um, and, and that’s been kind of, it’s actually been kind of intense for me. [00:22:20] Like I’ve really had some. Moments where I don’t know what it is I’m trying to think or say. And, um, and that’s something I’m really struggling with. Um, and hopefully it will get better. I mean, I’m kind of, part of it is that like I’ve been away from routine for so long. Um, in the week prior to getting ready for Kenya, I was like, you know, getting ready to leave the country for two and a half weeks. [00:22:46] And so that was just kind of a wild time. And then I got COVID and that was just a, you know, shut down from everything situation. And then as I sort of started recovering from COVID, um, we decided to do this road trip, which by the way, [00:23:00] was in the safe distance after my getting COVID. Um, and so then I was on a road trip and for me. [00:23:06] For me like road trips. I used to be in a band that toured a lot. And, um, I just love road trips more than anything. I love I, what I love the most and what I loved the most about this particular trip was like, I’m, I’m down to like the real primary things. Like I am driving a van. I am a father of two boys who are in the back. [00:23:27] Actually the tallest one who’s now taller than me is sometimes in the front. I am the husband of the woman who is usually sitting next to me in the car. and, uh, and I’m the owner of that van. And that’s really that’s, that’s it. That’s who I am and we’re on the road and there’s no real clear rules and there’s no real big decisions to make, besides where are we gonna stay each night? [00:23:47] And I love that feeling. And that simplicity so, so much, um, that it was really hard to come home from. And when I did come home, you know, I just have a lot waiting for me here. [00:24:00] Um, whether it’s work stuff or there’s just house projects, there’s just a, a million different things that, that were not present and didn’t have to be present in that minivan, driving across the country. [00:24:12] And so coming back to it has been hard and it has forced sort of an existential crisis in a way, which is totally my style. Like, I, I am very quick to existential crisis. Like it it’s like I am, I am probably, I have the shortest path to existential crisis of anyone. I know. And so when I, when I came home, it was like, what do I, what do I let back in? [00:24:33] And in what order, and how about this stuff that I don’t really wanna let back in, like some of these unfinished projects or whatever else, right. Like, I was just kinda, it took me a minute to. Come back to reality and to grieve the simplicity, especially I have two teenage boys. So like the it’s so cool to be so close. [00:24:53] Um, cuz we’re not close. They spread all over the house and they’re doing their thing and God knows what and they go to bed after me and whatever. [00:25:00] And so like, it was really cool for the four of us to just be that physically close all the time and we get along. So that, that worked well um, so anyway, so I got back and that was just, that’s what I’m kind of coming out of right now. [00:25:14] Um, but in the midst of that, I actually, this is just a PSA to everyone out there who takes meds without getting into how it happened. It was just a series of miscommunications, but I ended up having to go four days without, um, my search lane and you’re not supposed to just cold stop that stuff. Like there are consequences to it and um, and. [00:25:38] And it was part of the reason it was four days is cuz I ran out on the weekend. Um, and then there was just some really poor communication issues with my medication manager, my pharmacy, whatever. So it went like four days, maybe five days without Citraline and um, and it was awful. Like I got extreme nausea, um, at [00:26:00] first and then I was able to find a friend who took Citraline and I went and got, you know, that one pill from him thinking that’s all I needed, but then I had a couple more days and um, Yesterday was the, the, you know, just before I actually was able to get the prescription, like, so I’d had all these waves of intense nausea. [00:26:18] I had felt really fatigued. Um, but man, I had some, I had some stuff happen yesterday. Like some nervous twitches, like my jaw was sort of twitching. Um, I had to go out and fix . I have a tarp hung up in our backyard right now between our driveway and the, um, and the alley. And it was, uh, it was blowing in a, like a, kind of a windstorm and I was out there trying to fix it. [00:26:43] And the. The experience of the pressure of the tarp blowing on me was amplified like by a hundred. And the sound of it was like amplified by a hundred. And I was just like, I really felt like I was losing my shit. And so just a warning to everybody, like, [00:27:00] get ahead of it cuz you don’t wanna find out what it’s like and it takes a day or so before it starts hitting. [00:27:06] But like, man, it hit different every day after that. And it really, really scared me. [00:27:12] Brett: I will say, [00:27:13] Jeff: health. [00:27:14] Brett: like, I’m on a, I’m on a med. Uh Lamictil that you’re not supposed to go off of suddenly. Um, and I, my like my personal reaction to going off it is very much like, um, Like narcotic withdrawal. Um, I get like my skin’s crawling and I get nauseous and headachey. And, um, my pharmacy, I use a small pharmacy where they know me by name. [00:27:42] Um, if something happens with my psychiatrist, uh, if they fail to call in my refill on time, um, if any insurance problems happen, they will front me up to four days of [00:27:57] Jeff: Mm. Oh, that’s [00:27:58] Brett: without, [00:28:00] without a valid prescription. Um, because you know, I’ve been getting it for years now. Um, they know that that prescription will eventually come through and that is to me, one of the benefits. [00:28:10] It’s why I refused to my insurance company, wanted me to switch all that over to mail order. Um, but I really I’ve benefited greatly from having a pharmacy that knows me by name, uh, because exactly because of situations like that. [00:28:29] Christina: Yeah. Um, I had a similar thing. Um, when I lived in Atlanta where it was a chain, it was public’s pharmacy, but the pharmacist like the, the, the head pharmacist, um, Ray, who was just a wonderful lady, like knew me and would, would do the same thing, you know, for, as you brought as something happened. But yeah, withdrawal is not a joke and it can be different for every medication and it can depending on the half life, but it is, it is not a joke and it can fuck you up and it can take a while to come back in. [00:28:57] So I’m really sorry. You’ve had to go through that because that [00:29:00] is not fun. [00:29:01] Jeff: Yeah, thank you. It was not fun. I’ve had many versions. Oh, go ahead. [00:29:06] Brett: I can relate to this, uh, reintegration when, when, like, I mean, there are myriad ways it could happen. But to simplify your life and to only have to focus on something as simple as where are we gonna stay tonight? And the rest of it is just take it as it comes and then you have to reintegrate into adulting. [00:29:28] Um, I, I, I feel you, that is like for when I, this always, it always comes back around to drugs for me. But, um, the beauty of being addicted to drugs for me was always how simple it was. My only concern in life was the next fix. And like, nothing else really mattered. I could survive, you know, I’d get through I, but nothing else mattered. [00:29:55] And now I live a life where so many things matter and it’s, [00:30:00] it’s hard to be an adult and the simplicity, like going on a vacation. Yeah. I get that. I hear you. [00:30:07] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s great. It’s great. I mean, also this thing makes me think about like, you know, back after George Floyd was murdered and, and we had a really chaotic, intense period of time here with the uprising and then the military coming in and my own pharmacy, um, was actually wasn’t, it wasn’t burned, but it was looted as most of the pharmacies around here were, and there were like bullet holes in the glass of the drive through thing or whatever. [00:30:34] And I could not get my meds. Uh, I had to get it all switched out, but most of the pharmacies in the area were looted. So it was like trying to find like, oh, I guess I can go out to the outer suburbs for my, but anyway, it makes me realize that it, it, I am a small P prepper and I, I, it makes me think that like, I actually wanna have just, I wanna have 30 days of every bit of my medication or whatever it takes to kind of wind down from it in case something happens again, because the crazy thing [00:31:00] about that period of time was like, All the stuff you think wouldn’t happen. [00:31:04] Like, should you keep a tank full of gas? Why? Well, all our gas stations burned. Um, it’s like, that’s exactly why anyway, it makes me think about that. And I was gonna say too, that like on the withdrawal front, and this is a data point of one, but I, I have something to share. I learned from my medication manager, it’s like, so I take this medication called Seroquel. [00:31:23] And one of the things that it can do, that’s really, really hard to manage is it can cause really rapid weight gain, which it did in me. It caused me to gain about 20 pounds. I’m a big guy already, like pretty quickly. And, um, and it put me right into like pre-diabetes, uh, mode. Right. And so. Yeah. So I managed to do like a month before our trip of, of eating, like a very, a very limited diet, um, that brought it back down. [00:31:52] And now I have to like, try to figure out how to keep myself where I’m at. Not because of anything, not even any body image, nothing like that. Just like [00:32:00] it put me into pre-diabetes and, and I, I have diabetes in the family and I just didn’t wanna go all the way if I, you know, if I can avoid it. So I started pulling back on how muchs I would take during the day and at night. [00:32:13] And that actually [00:32:15] Brett: without guidance from, without [00:32:17] Jeff: without guidance. No, I was under the impression I was under the impression I, I had a range I could work in. Cause even my prescription was like one to two morning, whatever. [00:32:25] Brett: that’s true sometimes, but you have to be explicitly told that [00:32:29] Jeff: And I, and I talked to my, so what confused me was that my bottle actually said one to two morning, afternoon and night. [00:32:36] Right. So I was, yeah. And so I [00:32:39] Brett: What are the, how many are these? A hundred milligram? A hundred milligram tablets. [00:32:43] Jeff: Well, hold on. Let’s let’s go ahead and shake, rattle the can here. Um, I forget. And I’m going away now. Oh, they’re 50. They’re 50. [00:32:51] Brett: 50. Okay. That’s a pretty one to two. That’s a, that’s pretty severe. [00:32:56] Jeff: I know. So anyway, I mean, yes. All, all of what you’re saying is right. Like [00:33:00] that’s exactly the problem, right. Is that I misunderstood it as something I could just do and, and that had its own, uh, serious issues. So just to everybody out there, like don’t mess with it and keep it moving [00:33:13] Christina: and, and talk to your medication manager and like, make sure that they don’t put shit like that on the, on, on the, the bottle without you understanding why it says that, like, maybe they’re doing that cuz they wanna get you extras. Right. Which is fine. Or, or maybe they like, if you’re cuz certain sensitive medications that I’ve had to do this where. [00:33:32] I’ve had to literally cut the pills to a certain extent because the, the amount that, um, it, you know, if it’s like a tablet, because the, the available prescribed amounts don’t fit what is needed for me. So I have to have a pill cutter and cut it all the time. So, but like, you need to understand that I’m. [00:33:49] Wow. Yeah. So that, that didn’t help with your withdrawal or any of the other stuff. If you’d been messing around with how much you were taking, trying to mitigate the weight gain. [00:33:58] Jeff: that was more like a month or so [00:34:00] ago. And yeah, it was really bad. And I mean, and just to say, you know, one of the things my medication manager said to me about, you know, I was just asking, like, I have so many friends that are now starting to take medication. What, you know, what do you think it is? [00:34:13] Is it cultural that it’s more acceptable? Is it whatever? And she said like, you know, in some cases your body just may have been producing something that was helping you manage a certain aspect of your mental health that it stopped producing. And so to all the people out there like me, cuz I didn’t start taking any medications until just the beginning of the pandemic by coincidence. [00:34:32] Uh, thankfully, um, So I’m still learning, I’m learning all this stuff, right? Like I’m still kind of just a baby when it comes to dealing with medications and, and like, you both responded so quickly to the thing about Seroquel pulling back. Whereas for me, it was just kind of like, oh, let’s give it a try. [00:34:49] Right. So hopefully this is one way in which mental health corner is helpful to [00:34:53] Christina: No, I think, I think you’re right. Cause people don’t know. And I think, I don’t know. I’m I’m also thinking, I don’t know if it’s the. [00:35:00] Bodies aren’t producing it or that, that, you know, maybe like a, it’s called more cultural thing. I think it’s a personal awareness thing. I think like when you, it’s kind of like when you, you know, um, are looking for a red car or, or you get something new, like you see it everywhere. [00:35:13] Like there there’s a, there’s a term for that, um, for, for that phenomenon. But I have a feeling that’s some of it is that where you’re just much more aware of it because it’s new to you and it’s top of your mind. So you notice and pick up on every conversation you have with anyone who is new to taking medication. [00:35:29] Um, but you’re right. I think, but, but I think this can be really helpful. You’re right. For people, like, if you’re new to this stuff, don’t fuck with your meds, especially your psychiatric meds at all, without talking to a doctor, it will lead to bad things, [00:35:40] Brett: like they absolutely will, they will need adjustment. They always need adjustment, but you have to do it. You have to do it with guidance. Like there are people that you’re paying to help you make these decisions. And I don’t care how knowledgeable you think you are. Uh, you need, you need to follow [00:36:00] someone with at least what is an RN? [00:36:02] Is that, what, what do you need to be an RN? [00:36:06] Christina: Um, well, on our end, I think I would want like a physician’s assistant more than [00:36:11] Brett: Sure, [00:36:11] Christina: trust in RN, to be honest with you, but yeah. [00:36:14] Brett: sure. But you, you want someone with at least some schooling in, in, in the field, uh, which you can’t get just by reading the DSM. [00:36:24] Christina: No, you can’t. And that’s the thing too. Like you, you really need people who’ve like seen stuff and, and, and can see how things can act. And also to be clear, not every doctor medication manager is going to get everything right. That doesn’t mean that you don’t still seek out other people. [00:36:36] You know what I mean? Like, just because their dumb ass doesn’t mean that you give up on the whole thing and think, oh, I know best. And I can adjust myself. No, you really can’t like it’s, it’s a bad [00:36:45] Brett: really fucked up is interactions. And like for, for me, with bipolar and ADHD, like I take four different meds in addition to suffer like blood pressure and, and, [00:37:00] uh, cholesterol. I take four different psychiatric psychotropics. I take four different meds for my mental health and the balance between them. [00:37:11] I don’t care whether you have seven years of schooling or two, um, nobody knows. Every possible interaction or how a tweak to one med will affect the combination with another med cuz everyone’s unique and it, yeah, you, you, even if they make mistakes, though, you’re working, you’re working with someone who at least can account for the mistake and figure out how to correct it. [00:37:41] Uh, cuz blind guessing is not gonna do it for you. [00:37:44] Christina: No, it’s not. And, and, and people who think they can be like lay pharmaceutical, you know, uh, geniuses themselves, which I know wasn’t what you thought. Um, uh, Jeff, but like, but some people I know, really do think, oh, I, I, I can do this myself. No, you really can’t like, and it’s one of those things that think, [00:38:00] especially as intelligent people, we, again, it’s like Dunn, Kruger. [00:38:03] Like we assume that we can do more than we really can because in many cases we have. and, and no with, with medication stuff, like I’ve just learned. And, and I unfortunately learned it at a very young age, but, um, you know, some of the stuff that like you’re learning now, like minor adjustments can make a massive impact on your life. [00:38:20] Um, withdrawal can come on really quick. I mean, like, it’s possible that when you were adjusting your stuff, that like, if your body got used to a certain amount that even ripping down that smaller, uh, dose was kicking off certain withdrawal symptoms, right? Like it, it depends on what the medication is, but some of ’em are that sensitive, which means that if you’re doing those weird amounts, you have to figure out like how to, you know, balance the right things. [00:38:43] So, so that you get consistent, but it’s just, it’s, it’s, uh, it takes time and it’s complicated, but you need to work with your, with your doctor or medication manager or whatever on that stuff. And I’m really sorry you’ve been going through that because like, nothing to me is worse about like, [00:39:00] To me, it’s, it’s honestly, in many ways, worse than the, than the depression, like worse than the diseases themselves is sometimes the process of having to manage, like finding the right medication and going through that testing and going through the withdrawal period and going through all that stuff is, is sometimes as debilitating as like the, what you’re trying to treat. [00:39:19] Like obviously it’s, it’s not, you know, what you’re trying to treat I think is, is, is worse and, and could have like longer term consequences, but I don’t wanna ever, um, pretend like that process of finding a solution can’t be equally arduous and, and really difficult. [00:39:36] Brett: you pay, right? It’s it’s the mental health tax is, is all the medication futzing that you have to do, [00:39:43] Christina: Yep. Which a lot of people don’t wanna do. I think this is why a lot of people say medication doesn’t work for me. And my response to that is usually okay. How many have you tried and, and how much out, right, honestly. And how, how, [00:39:54] Brett: you put in the effort yet. [00:39:56] Christina: Right. And, and, and the thing is it’s shitty. [00:39:58] It sucks to have to go through the effort. [00:40:00] It sucks to have to pay that tax. Cuz we didn’t ask for any of this, we didn’t do anything wrong. It’s not a choice that we made, but it’s, it’s the same with anybody who has it. It’s somebody who’s diabetic. Somebody who has, you know, some, some other sort of, you know, like, uh, you know, condition like it’s, it’s shitty, like it’s unfair, but it is, but, but you’re right, it’s the tax you pay so that you don’t kill yourself or hurt yourself or hurt someone else, you know? [00:40:25] And, and that, that is ultimately worth it. But the process of getting there can be very, very difficult and really, you know, frustrating and, and you have to kind of unfortunately go through it and I’m glad you’re you have like a supportive family and, you know, situation where you can go through those things. [00:40:42] Like my, my great, my, the only thing I’m grateful for, you know, my experiences is that I was, you know, like between 14 and 17, when I went through most of my, like. Testing of, of, of stuff. So I mean, it fucked up my life then, but, you know, I [00:41:00] was, at the time it seemed like all, all consequential. Now I’m like, God, if I had to do this while I’m trying to work a, a high profile corporate job and doing other things, like, I don’t know what I would do. [00:41:11] Right. Like I, if it got bad enough, it would be one of those things where I would have to take like disability time and, and go on, on leave. You know what I mean? Like, and, and be because I, I don’t know how you, how you deal with it. Otherwise, if, if things get really bad, when you’re trying to figure out like what medications are, right. [00:41:26] And tweaking things and, and getting all that stuff together. So I’m glad that you have support and, and don’t feel like, hopefully don’t feel like the weight of everything is on your shoulders and that you can take the time to know it’s not gonna be perfect. It’s gonna be shitty and take time to figure out, but it’ll be okay. [00:41:43] Brett: But it’s worth it. Like [00:41:44] Christina: is worth it. That’s the thing. [00:41:45] Brett: we’re glossing over that part. Like when, when you do figure, when you make it through the [00:41:50] Christina: better. Yep. [00:41:52] Brett: Then your life can be multiple times better, uh, with medication like [00:42:00] it’s worth, it’s worth the [00:42:01] Christina: it is. No, it is. [00:42:03] Brett: med at the right dose. [00:42:05] Christina: No, I totally agree. No, and I, and I say this and I mean, this absolutely sincerely, and I’m not being like, I’m not trying to, you know, like, uh, trigger anybody or whatever, but like, I would not be alive without medication. There’s no doubt in my mind, I, I would not be alive. So for me, it is one of those things where I’m like all the hell, all the other stuff, as bad as it is, it is still better than the alternative, which is not being able to get out of bed and function as a human being. [00:42:30] And literally like praying for death. Like it is, you know, [00:42:35] Brett: Yeah. [00:42:37] Jeff: Hm. Glad you’re here too. Glad for medication [00:42:40] Brett: yeah. Do you want, do you wanna take the next mental health corner, Christina, [00:42:45] Christina: Sure. [00:42:45] Brett: on that note? [00:42:47] Christina: on that, on that happy note? No, I’m I’m okay. Um, I don’t really have much to, uh, much to add. I’ve just been doing some work stuff. Um, had some gastrointestinal stuff this morning, which is not fun. I hate dealing with that. Um, but, um, [00:43:00] yeah, no, I’m I’m I’m I’m okay. I’m okay. Um, so I have some friends who are in from out of town this week. [00:43:05] Um, uh, Amazon, AWS is having some sort of internal thing. And so, um, like it seems like every person I know now works at AWS and developer relations, so I’ve, I’ve been able to see people, which is cool. So I’m, I’m, [00:43:20] Brett: about that. What’s funny about that is Victor and I work at Oracle yet. We’ve been they’re, they’re launching, uh, an AWS, uh, heat wave on AWS where you can use an Oracle database with like, uh, it’s it’s a whole thing. Victor knows more about it than I do, but we’ve been dealing with AWS and AWS people not stop to. Anyway. Okay. Um, I’m kind of the same, uh, I, I was doing, I was doing well. I got up at 3:00 AM today because it was one of those nights where I fell asleep, [00:44:00] thinking about a problem and I solved it in the dream I had between 9:00 AM and 1:00 AM. And then I woke up at 1:00 AM and I laid in bed for two hours. [00:44:12] Thinking about the solution. That I had come up with. And then at three I gave up and decided just to code it out and, and it worked, it, it, it was great. It, it worked, um, if Twitter hadn’t changed their API, since the last time I Fuzed with it, um, it would be a perfect solution, but they did. Um, but anyway, like, I don’t think I’m manic right now. [00:44:38] I think I’m, I think I have insomnia and maybe a little bit of obsession. Uh, but I’m certain I don’t have like the elevated mood. I don’t have the, like, I’m pretty fucking laid back right now. Um, [00:44:54] Christina: I’m sorry about the API. I, I think that there’s somebody who maintains like a more up to date [00:45:00] kind of Python [00:45:01] Brett: they did, [00:45:01] Christina: to go for. Sorry, go on. [00:45:03] Brett: they, they moved it to V2. Um, and I, I haven’t played with it for at least a year now. Maybe more, um, So the apps that I had created for the V one API still function. And as long as I used the API keys from those original apps, my, my little integration, I made it so that doing can import your tweets as doing entries. [00:45:31] And as long as you have a V1 API app made it works great. But the Ruby gem that interfaces with the Twitter API is only for V1 and you can no longer create a V1 app. You have to create a project and an app now, and it has to use V2 endpoints. So I have to find a new gem if I’m gonna make this work. So the thing I figured out and, and I’ll make this brief because no one gives a fuck.[00:46:00] [00:46:00] I figured out how to make plugins for doing, uh, gem based. So you can develop a doing plugin as a gem and publish it, and then people can install the plugin just by typing gem, install, doing plugin, Twitter import, and, and it installs it. And it’ll pick up any gem on your system that starts with doing dash plugin dash will be loaded as a plugin and doing, um, so it makes plugins distribute distributable to this date. [00:46:38] Nobody has ever written a doing plugin aside from me. And I don’t see it being a big community effort, but at least now I, I know how to do it. I figured out figured out a way to make that work. [00:46:50] Jeff: That’s awesome. [00:46:52] Brett: Yeah. [00:46:52] Jeff: That’s awesome. [00:46:54] Brett: So can I ask you guys, I’m getting ready to travel for the first time in a [00:47:00] while? We’ll say a couple years. [00:47:02] Um, and I’m just going to Chicago, which is like a six hour drive for me, not a big deal, but I’ve forgotten how to pack. Do you guys have any tips for like managing a packing list? How do you put together your packing list? What do you, how do you double check? How do you know you got all your shit together before you leave? [00:47:25] Christina: Yeah, Jeff, do you wanna take this one? [00:47:27] Jeff: yeah. Okay. I’ll take, I got, I got three things I wanna say right away. Okay. So in terms of the packing itself, I always designate a table or a space for where I’m gonna throw everything as I’m getting ready to pack. And that might be just the morning that I’m packing or might be a few days before. So it’s like, if I know I want my sunglasses, the sunglasses go on that table. [00:47:52] We actually have like a folding table. I set up. It’s like how my dad used to plan pancake packing or, uh, camping trips. And, um, if there’s some, you know, [00:48:00] like there’s a hat I wanna bring, I put it there. If there’s like a medication on making sure I have, I put it there. Like I just make this ugly ass pile of stuff. [00:48:09] Ends up being for me a lot easier than a packing list. So like my first round is just to walk around the house and be like that, that, that, that, and throw it on the table. Then I make my packing list and the way it works after that is if it’s on the table, I can cross it off the packing list on or under the table. [00:48:28] So I might put like a suitcase under the table. Right. [00:48:31] Brett: Yeah. [00:48:32] Jeff: and that’s when I make my packing list and I always make my packing lists, um, on like index cards or on a half piece of paper or whatever. So I can just carry it around with me. Um, I’ve tried doing templates. I’ve used like task, paper format or whatever, but that didn’t work for me. [00:48:47] So that’s, that’s the packing recommendation. Okay. Just pile it all up and then figure it out. My second thing is fricking, uh, packing cubes for your suitcase, the cubes that you, you do, you use those[00:49:00] [00:49:00] Christina: I do. I do. Yeah. I, I, I was like for a long time, I was like against them. I was like, this is stupid. No, it is not. It is the way that I make stuff work, honestly. [00:49:10] Jeff: It’s incredible and, and like get enough so that one can be just for dirty clothes. Um, and so like, my family just went on a trip and we borrowed packing cubes from a bunch of friends. So each person had a different color packing cube, and we all packed into one suitcase. And if you wanted your stuff, you just grabbed the one that had your shirts in it, or the one that had your shorts in it or whatever. [00:49:31] I like you, Christine. I was just like, I don’t know about all this, but it has changed the way I travel. Um, especially with multiple people, but even if I was alone, I would use them. The third thing is just to bring an extension cord. That’s all always bring an extension [00:49:46] Brett: uh, what kind of exception? Cord two, prong three prong lightning, cable SBC. What kind of, [00:49:52] Jeff: It’s I, I do a three prong with a couple of three prong outlets in it and a couple of USB outlets in it. So, you know, the kind, you [00:50:00] can just grab off a target shelf or [00:50:01] Brett: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have some good. I have some good options for that. [00:50:05] Christina: Yeah, I, um, I made my mistake when I went to Europe that I didn’t even realize this because it’d been so long since I traveled that I couldn’t find my, um, like, uh, converter kits for, you know, my, my, my foreign stuff. So I had to buy something in the airport. Um, and then I did actually have one that I could use. [00:50:22] So I had two different plug things, but what I found, I have this, um, thing, the audience won’t be able to see it, but I’ll show you two it’s great is, um, from, uh, it’s, it’s called it’s from a hyper and it is a, um, USB plug. So it’s great. So on the back of it, it has like a two-prong plug, but you can obviously attach any sort of converter to it, which I did on the front of it. [00:50:48] It also is a two-prong plug. That’ll take up to 1500 Watts so you can plug [00:50:52] Brett: pass through. [00:50:53] Christina: Pass through other stuff into it, including another one of these. And then on the front, it has, it goes up to a hundred. Watts has three [00:51:00] USB, C hundred watt ports. You’ll do total a hundred Watts and then one 18 wat, um, us B a. So with this, I can basically have my iPad, my, um, phone, um, my laptop all fully charged and it has a pass through for anything else I need to plug in. [00:51:18] So with this and a power converter, like, like a, you know, just like a universal kind of, you know, plug thing, this is really good for me. This is better than the Belk one that I used to use for travel, because it’s got enough wattage for the, all the, um, you know, like I can do a 16 inch MacBook, fully charged off of this thing. [00:51:37] Brett: Can, can you drop a link to that in the [00:51:39] Christina: I sure can. Um, it’s really good. I’ve got two of these. It was a Kickstarter, but they sell them like officially on their store. Now it’s really, really good. Um, something like this. Um, and I would also say, uh, yeah, like having cables, I tend to keep my, my advice. Cause my advice is basically very similar to Jeff’s, but I would also say if you’re traveling more frequently, like I [00:52:00] try to keep my laptop bag. [00:52:02] um, there are some changes and I, I get fucked up here sometimes, cuz I knew that I had a cable in the bag and then I don’t, but I try to keep like my tech bag, uh, kind of filled at all times. So I’ll have stuff that I use just in the travel bag. Right. So I buy extras. So I have a lightning to USBC cable. I have, you know, like, um, a two and a half millimeter, you know, audio Jack cable, um, just is something to have, you know, again like a charger, like one of these, these, um, things from, um, hyper that I just have in the bag. [00:52:32] Some other stuff like, like my, my travel adapters and I try to keep those things always there so that when I’m doing my tech stuff, which is a lot of times for me, even a bigger deal than like. The clothes or, or other stuff? Well, no, cuz cuz clothes are a big deal, but you can always buy clothes. You can’t always buy the tech stuff. [00:52:51] So if I, if I have that organized, then I know that I just basically have to grab my bag. Like I know that I have that. And, and then for me, I also make sure, like I keep my [00:53:00] pills in. Um, it’s funny. I use a, a, um, an air France, um, amenity kit, um, bag that I got the, the honestly like the, from fine business class so much over the last, uh, you know, few years I have all these amenity kit bags, which are great for story, medication bottles and things like that. [00:53:17] And also like adopt kits. So like I have like these, these Tomy bags that are basically all my toiletries and that’s the same thing. I have toiletry kits that are not my day in and day out toiletries, but just my stuff for traveling. If you’re not traveling all the time, you don’t need to do that. But I would say similar to the packing cubes, having whether it is, you know, um, a. [00:53:38] A clear, you know, gallon bag that you have to use for TSA if you don’t have precheck. Um, and I forgot about this because when I, and that in Europe, they don’t have precheck. And so I forgot that I had to put everything in a plastic bag and held up, you know, security. I mean, it was fortunately, it was, it was, um, not very busy, but in, in Copenhagen. [00:53:55] And the people were very nice to me when I had to send my things through four times, like a freaking [00:54:00] novice and I felt so bad, they were so kind to me. And I was like, I am so sorry. I did not realize that I had all this stuff in there, including a phone that I totally forgot about. Um, like it was. A lot, but yeah, but having like bags set up for your toiletries, your meds and, and that stuff, um, works, but yeah, packing cubes are amazing. [00:54:22] And then, yeah, just kind of, uh, I always do like the broad city, like, like, you know, phone, wallet, keys, uh, and then I add on like my denim, like pills kind of mantra, like before I’m leaving a place also when you’re like leaving the hotel room, you know, checking for everything. Do you have my phone, have my wallet, my keys. [00:54:37] Do you have my medication? You know, cuz those are the important things. Anything else you can, you know, replace? [00:54:43] Brett: The one tip I would add, I have like a, I have a tech go bag. Do you guys know what a cocoon backpack is? um, like it has, it, it has a whole panel of just like elastic straps, and you can just kind of like [00:54:58] Jeff: Oh, like a [00:55:00] tactical [00:55:00] Brett: stuff and yeah. And, and I have that rigged up with every possible adapter from this to that, um, including like an ethernet cable for hotels where I can have a hardwired connection, uh, USB dongles, USBC us B a to, you know, everything. [00:55:21] And I just, I, I don’t use those cables at home. And that bag is basically always ready to go. So anytime I’m going on a trip, that’s going to involve tech at all. Like if I was going to, uh, Yellowstone, I probably wouldn’t bring the bag, but for anything that involves tech, uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s my go bag. [00:55:45] It’s it’s everything else that I’m finding [00:55:48] Jeff: Yeah, that’s amazing. Oh, wow. Are you driving? [00:55:52] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. [00:55:53] Jeff: purse. That’s the other thing I, I converted the house purse into a car purse and it was amazing cause I brought it in and it [00:56:00] would be by my bedside in each hotel. It was incredible. [00:56:03] Brett: Nice, man. We, we didn’t get through half our list today. We spent a long time on mental health and I’m okay with that. [00:56:12] Christina: No, I think it was good. It, it was also great to hear like a, a Jeff update and, and I think, I think this was like a really solid episode actually. [00:56:19] Jeff: Yeah. [00:56:20] Brett: Okay. So [00:56:21] Christina: then, and then I think, I think we’re gonna save the other stuff for when you come back from max stock. I think Jeff and I are gonna do like a, a solo show, probably this, uh, this next one. [00:56:30] Um, so that you, so that, so that Jeff who, uh, so the Brett rather a birthday boy, uh, can, uh, can enjoy his que and, uh, and enjoy all of his people at max stock. [00:56:41] Brett: oh yeah, it was my birthday on Wednesday, [00:56:43] Christina: Yes, it [00:56:44] Brett: Tuesday. What day is. [00:56:46] Christina: Today is [00:56:47] Brett: It was Tuesday was my birthday. [00:56:49] Christina: Happy happy belated. And, and now who knows when it was, when you’re listening to this podcast, but, uh, but, but happy birthday to, uh, to Mr. Terpstra [00:56:58] Brett: How old are you Christina? [00:57:00] 29. Is that what it [00:57:01] Christina: Uhhuh. Yep. [00:57:02] Brett: I, I just turned 29 as well. [00:57:04] Christina: That’s awesome. Welcome to the club. It’s a great age. [00:57:08] Brett: 20, 29 come 44. [00:57:11] Christina: Mm-hmm [00:57:12] Brett: I think I had, I keep having to do the math. I’ve lost track over the last few [00:57:16] Christina: it, look, you’re just turning 29 for the 15th time. It’s not a big deal. [00:57:20] Jeff: Yep. You’re doing great. [00:57:23] Christina: 16th time, whatever, like, yeah. Math is hard. [00:57:26] Brett: Arithmetic. [00:57:27] Jeff: lightning round. [00:57:28] Brett: Oh, Jesus. Uh, how did I forget about gratitude? Yes. Okay. Jeff, go. [00:57:34] Jeff: Uh, I am, uh, I am grafting, um, note plan, which is an app that I’ve, I’ve kind of made an attempt to integrate into my life three or four times since its inception. Um, and I’m doing it again right now. Note plan is, uh, you know, text document based, um, notes, organizer, but really that’s not why I use it cause I have other things I use for that. [00:57:59] I’ll [00:58:00] see Brett Terpstra. Um, but what it does is it puts sort of an interface in front of you that has a little bit of a, like you have like your picture, you open up the app and you have a little mini calendar in the right hand side, uh, UN below that in a column, you have your, your events over the next few days, right? [00:58:18] And then you have kind of a. Basically a text editor in the middle. And what it allows me to do that I like so much is I can look at that calendar and just very quickly click on an item and make notes for that item, for that meeting. That’s coming up for that, you know, um, that deadline I have or whatever. [00:58:37] And it’s just, it’s, it’s built, it’s one of these apps that, you know, if this sounds interesting to you just go look because it’s built in features over the years, really consistently and really wonderful features. And so I use it mostly just to keep sort of a, a one note for the week and a note for each day, um, that I can create in an advance. [00:58:56] And it just allows me to kind of, um, you [00:59:00] know, anchor certain key tasks or things I need to think about. And I can just let ’em go. Um, and for me, I really like that more than I like doing it inside of like an OmniFocus or something, but, you know, none of these solutions is perfect, but the it’s just wonderfully designed. [00:59:17] There’s a wonderful templating, um, sort of, uh, system inside of it that you can use. And, and the coolest thing for me is what makes me able to play with this and then put it down. Is that like all good apps of this type. It’s just looking for a folder that has your text documents in it. And that’s sort of my primary requirement for anything like this is like, can I just turn you on and show you my text documents and start using you with the stuff I’ve already got and not have to create a new system or anything like that. [00:59:46] And that’s what note plan allows me to do. It’s also on set app, just to be, uh, clear about that, what were you gonna [00:59:53] Brett: Interesting side note, cuz I knew you had to go Jeff, but uh, um, Eduardo from note plan [01:00:00] and I have, we both use Cindy for marketing emails. So if you ever get a marketing email from note plan, uh, I designed, he gave me the template and I designed the script that turns a markdown file into that email, uh, with his [01:00:16] Jeff: nice. [01:00:17] Brett: So E emails from marked, uh, share the same formatting as emails from note plan. Um, and he, he designed them. I scripted it and uh, it’s synergy developer synergy [01:00:32] Christina: Is it Eduardo? Uh, uh, Brett production. [01:00:35] Jeff: yes. And Eduardo’s just done really an incredible job at this app. Um, because I, I do once a year ago. Oh, I think this is what I need. Um, and I dive in and what’s amazing is that every time I dive in, what I did before is still basically there. And, um, and that’s the, how I use tools. I, I dip in and out of them all the time. [01:00:55] So anyway, it’s just a wonderfully designed app. Check it out and that’s it. Who’s [01:01:00] next. [01:01:01] Brett: All right, go ahead, Christina. [01:01:03] Christina: Okay. I don’t think I’ve mentioned this one before. Have I talked about J ski before? [01:01:06] Jeff: No. [01:01:07] Brett: You know what? I don’t remember. [01:01:09] Christina: I then, then, then I, then I, then I’m gonna talk about it. If I I’ve somehow talked about this before that I apologize JSK or GSKi however you wanna say it is a great, um, uh, app. So it’s, it’s two things. It’s both, uh, there’s a CLI that’s kind of like a front end and there’s also a, um, a Mac app that, uh, uh, CiDRA, uh, CI house. [01:01:30] Uh, and I know that I said his name wrong, um, created for, um, sorry. CiDRA [01:01:38] Brett: Sohu Sohu. [01:01:40] Christina: Sohu Sohu anyway, uh, he’s a prolific open source contributor who makes a lot of really great Mac apps and, and, um, also created like the awesome list, uh, stuff and whatnot. He makes a lot of really good utilities, um, and a lot of, uh, free open source stuff. [01:01:54] Um, some of his things are, are paid, but most of them are free, but this is basically a GIF, [01:02:00] uh, a GIF converter. So convert videos to, to G’s animations, but it, it focuses on quality. So you can have really high quality, like, so I’ve had to do this recently where I’ve had to make. Um, JS have like screen recordings and stuff so that we can share, uh, screen recording videos that I’ve made like on social media. [01:02:19] And most of the built most of the, the, the GIF, like conversion tools are terrible to be completely honest, they compress things way down. They don’t look good. And, and they’re just, they’re not worth a damn gys ski, which is free, is great. It’s a high quality different coder. So like the file sizes will be large. [01:02:36] You can actually then limit the number of frames and you can also. How big the, the image is if you need to, um, to, to get it down. Um, and, and I found that actually will, will get you a long way, but the quality is incredible. And, um, the Mac app and, and the CLI version basically has to be run, you know, from the command line. [01:02:56] And you can pass in, you know, like your frame for a second [01:03:00] and you’re width. And, and, you know, like, you know, the, the name that you want, you could do all of that. Exactly. Maximum of colors and, and you uses FFM peg, and it can, can do that stuff. But the, the Mac app is incredible because it’s super easy for you to just drag in a video file and then make adjustments. [01:03:16] It’ll give you kind of an idea of how big the resulting file will be. The resulting file is actually usually a little bit smaller, which is good to know, and the results are just top notch. Like I haven’t found anything even remotely close and I’ve used basically everything else you could use. So this is from, um, the image Optum guy. [01:03:34] Um, uh, and, uh, so it’s, uh, it’s really, really great. And, and if you have to deal with, with, with the gifs or gifts at all, and, um, converting them, like in the old days, we actually had a guy at Gizmoto, uh, Andrew Zuki. Who’s amazing who would make us the best, like gifs that I’ve ever seen, where he would, what he would do is he would take footage from the video. [01:03:57] He would import all the frames into Photoshop, and then he would [01:04:00] export them out. Like he, he, he would do the editing and like export them out and, and Andrew has a setup, so he can do it really quickly. But if you don’t have an Andrew on your team who can do that for you, then this is going to be the closest thing you can possibly get. [01:04:12] And it’s, and it’s free and it’s, and it’s also open source. So really good step. [01:04:16] Brett: So two things, first of all, it’s amazing that you’ve given up on the fight and you just say both G and GIF every time you’re like GIF or GIF, GIF or GIF. Um, second I use GSKi on the command line in combination with G sickle, um, and the two together. I I’ve come up with a pretty good GIF workflow even though for like websites. [01:04:40] Um, I’m using looping MP4 video now, but for social media, I’m excited. [01:04:47] Christina: to. Yeah. [01:04:48] Brett: I’m excited to try this gooey. This looks really cool. I [01:04:52] Christina: the gooey is great. Yeah. The gooey is great. And the reason I like it is because it’ll give you the preview of the size because certain social media sites like [01:05:00] LinkedIn will like be really particular. Like they need a G, but it’ll, it can be up to eight megabytes. [01:05:06] And then some like, Twitter will be fine with the file size. But if the resolution is too big, then they won’t, it won’t work. I didn’t know these things until the social media team was like, I need you to convert this to a smaller size or a different size. And I’m like, are you freaking kidding me? And thankfully I was using a tool that like, let me hone in on all those detail. [01:05:27] Jeff: Awesome. [01:05:28] Brett: All right. My pick will be quick. Um, I just discovered it, it was one of those that came up when I updated brew. I always look through, it tells you like what the new formula are formula and, and I go through them and I do a, a brew home, uh, brew home on all of them. And, um, I found this one called Astro Fox in the Cass brew CAS, and it is an open source free to use application that you can drop in an [01:06:00] audio file, for example, a podcast. [01:06:03] And it will do background images, titles, and waveform, animations, and output an MP4 for you to upload to YouTube. Um, I’m excited because we’ve never agreed to record our actual faces while we’re talking on this podcast. And I have always been hesitant to just publish a video that was just a static image. [01:06:29] Um, and, and then have our audio over it, but I do want to be on YouTube and this gives me an animated, visually interesting video from our little conversations here. Um, so I am very impressed with Astro Fox, uh, especially because it’s free and, uh, I’ll link that in the show notes. That’s it? [01:06:52] Jeff: Awesome. [01:06:53] Christina: I’m gonna definitely check that out. That’s great. That it’s, that it well done. Checking out the, the home brew formula, new new formula [01:07:00] things, cuz I’d never heard of this and this, this is like a perfect solution for what we’ve done and also might be useful in some of my other endeavors. [01:07:06] So this is cool. [01:07:07] Jeff: but did you pick it based on name alone [01:07:11] Brett: no, [01:07:12] Jeff: when you update, do you get like descriptions as well? [01:07:17] Brett: No, when I, when I update it, I just get, I get names. So, yeah. Um, there’s a lot of stuff like flock. I know what it does, you know, I don’t need to, but if it’s a weird name, that sounds somewhat interesting. Um, the other one I found was tuck TUC, which is a variation of the Unix cut CLI. Um, but it does basically stuff that you would have to do some extensive said and a magic to do. [01:07:47] Um, it basically uses cut syntax to say cut the second and fourth column, transposed them and split them with the centimeter. Um, it, it’s [01:08:00] very intuitive. Uh, I’ll link that one as well [01:08:02] Jeff: is the one it’s like a, it’s a node module, right? That’s am I looking at the right thing? [01:08:06] Brett: I think it’s a go, I don’t remember what it’s [01:08:09] Jeff: Anyway. Cool. That’s awesome. Um, I would like to thank a, a special guest today, which is my youngest son. Who’s been making pesto in the kitchen, outside my door. So if you’ve heard a lot of kitchen noises, I do not have the heart, uh, to tell him to stop cuz he is making pesto. [01:08:25] Um, so that’s it, but [01:08:28] Brett: I, I didn’t hear it. I [01:08:29] Christina: I didn’t either. I didn’t hear any of it. So, so [01:08:32] Jeff: I delighted. [01:08:33] Christina: so a great soundproofing and B um, you got to like hear and smell the pesto making and now you [01:08:38] Jeff: Yeah. It’s awesome. [01:08:39] Christina: So that’s [01:08:40] Jeff: awesome. Before I get some sleep, [01:08:43] Christina: Yes. [01:08:44] Jeff: get some [01:08:45] Brett: Speaking of get some sleep guys. [01:08:49] Christina: Get some sleep. Can I Onvoy.

Jeff is traveling, so Overtired gets back to its roots with just Brett and Christina talking about mental health, conferences, Top Gun, and great apps. Sponsors ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Erin Dawson on MacVoices Top Gun: Maverick VirtualBuddy BetterTouchTool with Stream Deck support Brett’s BTT scripts Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Original Recipe [00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:03] Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. This is an episode, original recipe, Overtired, uh, Overtired classic. Just me, Brett Terpstra and Christina Warren, Christina, how you been? [00:00:16] Christina: I’ve been good. I’ve been good. It’s been a while. [00:00:19] Brett: Yeah, we had three. We had two weeks off and we missed one week because, uh, you had already taken off and Jeff was, uh, Jeff got the COVID. Uh, and, [00:00:30] Christina: Ronna. [00:00:31] Brett: and I didn’t have time to, to fill in with anybody. And then I got a little sick and we took three weeks off. So, so welcome back. I [00:00:40] Christina: Thank you very much. And, and it feels like it’s been even longer than that because I, I think it’s been like a month since I’ve done a pod because of all the travel and stuff that I did. So I’m, I’m very grateful to be back I’m I’m sorry that Jeff can’t be with us. He’ll be with us when we record next time. [00:00:59] Um, but yeah, [00:01:00] over, over Overtired, classic OG Overtired. Overtired OG. There we go. [00:01:04] Brett: I don’t know if Jeff will ever listen to this, this episode, but as much as I love the, the classic recipe, I really, I really like Overtired with Jeff. I really like having him on. [00:01:16] Christina: I love having him on too. And, and so, so it’s weird to, for us to have like the throwback to like, what was, you know, our like typical thing for, [00:01:24] Brett: feels like we’re, it feels like we’re missing a limb. [00:01:28] Christina: kind of, kind of like, I didn’t ever know that I wanted three arms, but, but here we are. [00:01:33] Brett: so you, you did some travel where’d you head. [00:01:36] Christina: So I was in, um, uh, Denmark and then I was in Tel Aviv. So I, [00:01:41] Brett: didn’t know about that [00:01:43] Christina: Yeah, that one was right after Denmark. So I literally left Denmark and I flew to stanol and then from stanol went to Tel Aviv and then I was in Tel Aviv, um, for like four days. And so it was a quick trip. Um, but, uh, I wish that I could have been there longer, but if I sent you [00:02:00] the itinerary of stuff that I did while I was there, like in past jobs, not at tech companies, but in past jobs, I have had people complain to me and be like, we don’t know if we had enough value out of your trip, which a go fuck yourself. [00:02:17] Because, because of one of those trips, we ended up getting to Tim cook interview. So, you know, suck my Dick. Um, you more than got value. Like you, it, it’s not a question and, and, and B, but like, you know, I I’ve always do my all into work trips, but in this case, like, cuz it’s my first time doing like a, a solo trip for GitHub. [00:02:37] I was like very concentrated on like making sure that I, you know, like did enough stuff and, uh, no one, no one could argue, like, I don’t even think like the most like pedantic or like biggest asshole could like look at all the, all the, my attender and be like, yeah, Christie didn’t didn’t do enough work related things on that trip. [00:02:58] It was great though. [00:03:00] Exactly, exactly. Cause [00:03:01] Adventures in Tel Aviv [00:03:01] Brett: so what do you do when you go on a trip for GitHub? What, what’s your, what’s your gig? So there’s a mark [00:03:06] Christina: So, I mean, in this case I was doing a lot of talks and a lot of community things. So this was what my itinerary was when I was in Tel Aviv. So I got in at like two o’clock, one o’clock, two o’clock in the morning. And then at, um, 4:00 PM or I guess really I got there around. Yeah, I think I got there at four. I might have gotten there, um, a little bit earlier, a little bit later, I showed up at this, uh, very big conference called all founders, which was an amazing, amazing event. [00:03:34] Shout out to everybody who put that together, which, um, uh, Microsoft, um, um, Israel sponsored, but it was a ton of companies and startups from all over the ecosystem and, and the region who showed up. And, um, it was, it was great. It was a number of different kind of venues. Like, uh, it was one space, but they had like different rooms for different tracks. [00:03:53] And then there was, um, like an outdoor kind of area where there were custom t-shirts and there were that, that [00:04:00] you could get made and there was amazing food and just great networking. It was a really, really good event. And so I gave a talk there, um, where I basically did like a, a, a code to cloud roadmap by GitHub where I kind of showed the process of. [00:04:13] Of how you could kind of, you know, take an issue and use that, um, use code spaces to, you know, like make, um, you know, changes, uh, to the code and then, um, you know, use actions to, to push to production. Um, and so, um, so I did that demo and, uh, that was the first time I’ve done that talk and I’m actually really proud of myself cuz I wrote it and did the demo and stuff in the hotel that morning. [00:04:38] And uh, the, the venue didn’t have great, um, uh, internet. So I had to Panama to the recording, which can be difficult. Um, although I actually, I think better at that now than I am doing the live demos, to be completely honest with you. So that was Sunday. And then that was a lot of networking. So then I got back late and then [00:05:00] Monday, um, I did a, um, Of kind of a presentation with some, um, various accounts and, and, um, you know, people who, who have very, you know, who already pay for various Microsoft services, um, telling them about, um, get up advanced security and doing demos with that. [00:05:19] Um, then I went and had, um, there was a community meet at, um, um, the Microsoft reactor and it was a, um, a get meetup actually. And so I, I showed off co-pilot and, and some open source, um, stuff there, which was really cool. And also code spaces met with community members. Then there was a party after that. [00:05:40] And then the next day, um, there was, um, a, uh, a kind of a women in tech community, a meetup thing where I gave a different talk. And, um, I met with a bunch of people. Then I had a, um, a, uh, media interview with, um, [00:06:00] Publication in, um, in Tel Aviv, the guy who runs like a cloud kind of newsletter there that I had, um, a meeting with some startups. [00:06:09] Then I had a round table with some startups here and kind of their feedback on various things. We filmed some videos. Then I had, um, there was, uh, Jay frog had, um, a community, um, meetup, um, where, you know, people were giving presentations on various stuff. And so I gave another talk there and then I met with some people for drinks. [00:06:29] And then [00:06:30] Brett: giving. This is too much detail. [00:06:33] Christina: I’m just saying, no, no, but [00:06:36] Brett: sounds very busy. Lots of talks and some social obligations. [00:06:40] Christina: and, and no, and, and then I flew back. So all I’m saying is that, like, if you looked at, if you looked at this thing, like I was basically like nonstop, so yeah, that was too much detail. Sorry, but yeah, that, that, but that’s what I do at GitHub is what you’re was, what I was trying to say is I give talks, do social obligations, um, have socialization. [00:06:57] Yeah. [00:06:58] Brett: I could travel more [00:07:00] with Oracle if I gave talks. And the thing is the talks that you just described. I could totally give those talks. Like those would be fun. I could write those. I could give them when it comes to Oracle cloud infrastructure. Um, I’m about to get certified in OCI, but nothing about it really excites me to the extent that I wanna write a talk and give it in public and like GitHub on the other hand, man, I’m all about GitHub. [00:07:29] Christina: Right. No, I was gonna say GitHub makes it easy. When I was at Microsoft doing Azure stuff, it was more like your scenario, right? Like it was a little bit harder because it was one of those things where, especially when I first joined, I didn’t know anything about Azure. So I had to like give myself, like I had to learn. [00:07:47] And so then I wrote a fundamentals track and gave a lot of talks about those things. But when new features would come out, I would give talks about that stuff and, and try to show off cool demos and integrate things. But yeah, that was always a challenge for me. And the, [00:08:00] the reality of it is like GitHub. [00:08:01] It’s, it’s a breeze because I care about it and I like it. So this is obviously a good fit for me, but. If, if you’re going to give talks and you work at a tech company. Yeah. The reality is sometimes you’re giving talks about things that a, you don’t know a ton about B um, you might not be super passionate about, and that doesn’t matter. [00:08:20] And then C you have to answer a bunch of questions about things that you don’t really necessarily know a lot about. So you have to learn on the fly yeah. Apply. [00:08:27] Brett: is Q and a, like, I, if someone gives me a script or, or even bullet points, like I can make a presentation out of it, but like being able to answer interesting questions anyway, [00:08:39] Christina: of times, and a lot of times your answers are, I’m gonna have to check on that for you, or I’m not quite sure. Or sometimes no, you know, which is hard for people to say, you know, if the answer is, no, we don’t have a, a support for this or that. Um, and, and then just turn that into an opportunity to gather feedback, but yeah, so it, so it was busy. [00:08:59] Mental Health Corner [00:08:59] Brett: this [00:09:00] conversation could dovetail multiple directions. I kind of think we should get the mental health corner in, um, because my mental health corner actually overlaps this job conversation a little bit. Um, do you mind if I go first? [00:09:15] Christina: please [00:09:17] Brett: So I finally had a manic episode after like four months of just being stable. [00:09:24] I had a one night manic episode. Um, and then I had like elevated mood for like a week after that, but I didn’t lose any more sleep after that first night. Um, which is kind of an ideal manic episode because I finished a month long project in one night and I created something like I had had this project at work that I knew was coming up and I knew was gonna take, like, I wasn’t. [00:09:54] A hundred percent sure I could do it. I wasn’t, I wasn’t a hundred percent sure it could be done. [00:10:00] Uh, it was a, it was a hacking programming thing, uh, extending J to work with, uh, to basically make it so that J could publish straight from GitHub, into Oracle’s content management system, which is abysmal, um, and to create an interface between the two. [00:10:19] And I wasn’t sure it could be done. And I was a little worried. I kept telling everyone, yep, I got this. You know, let me know when to start. I’m gonna need two weeks. And then my manager was like, all right, you have a one week it go now. And like two days later I had a manic episode, finished the whole project. [00:10:38] Overnight and like, it worked perfectly, I nailed it. Um, elegant solution, pretty Bulletproof. Um, it ended up being the final straw that got me promoted from technical writer to, uh, principal software developer, which doubles my, [00:11:00] my salary range. Even though it didn’t come with a pay bump yet. Like that’s like in August, we’ll see if we’re actually giving any raises to your team. [00:11:10] Um, but I, it increased my salary potential significantly. And what I realized and what kind of bums me out is I don’t think I can create, like my, my career is based on things I’ve created. And, and I live to create things. It’s the only time I’m truly happy, um, is when I’m creating. And for me, I think that creation only happens in two circumstances. [00:11:43] One on, um, pretty hardcore drugs. Like I create great stuff on Coke, like just all my, all my best music and all my best code from like college years was done on Coke and, and speed. [00:12:00] Um, or manic episodes. [00:12:02] Christina: Which is kind of the same thing. Right? That’s when your body it’s kind of doing the same thing. So I it’s kind of this, like you’re having the same, I guess dopamine, you know, uh, epinephrine, whatever the, the term is response. [00:12:14] Brett: but drugs and manic episodes shorten my life. [00:12:18] Christina: Yeah. Right. [00:12:19] Brett: they are kind of a death sentence. I’m losing years off my life. Every time I have like five days of no sleep and just coding binges and everything. Um, but am I happy when I’m stable? Not really. Like , so I’m at this kind of existential, uh, point in my life crisis point where like, if I wanna enjoy my life and I want to continue creating, I kind of need some, like this last manic episode, like I said, was kind of like manic light, uh, one night of like just crazy creation and [00:13:00] then a week of just kind of being happy and good and sleeping well like that. [00:13:06] I, that seems more sustainable. I wish I could figure out the formula to make that happen. I have no idea what triggered it. [00:13:13] Christina: No, I, I was gonna say like, that does seem ideal. I, I will say this and I don’t know if you talked to a therapist or not, or just like a doctor for meds, but something that you might wanna consider talking to a therapist about would be this idea that you don’t think you can create without either of those two things, because I’m not going to disagree and say that you might not be your most productive and might not have those like aha moments where like everything clicks and you can kind of go through, you know, and like really be like, as, as good as, as possible. [00:13:46] Um, I wish I could look at you straight in the eye as I’m talking to you right now, but I’m my, the way my, my office, which is finally clean by the way is set up right now. I, I, I can’t. Um, but, um, here, but [00:14:00] okay. But I think that like, I used to have this thing. And, and so kind of speaking of my mental health for a little bit, mine has been pretty good, although I’ve had some bad anxiety in the last couple of days, but I also was off of work for a week. [00:14:15] So after I got back from Tel Aviv, the entire company had the week off, which was awesome wellness week and that was much needed. Um, but I had this thing when, not with, you know, man, except, but with depression where I used to only feel like I could be really creative and could really write well and could really like, produce really good stuff if I were depressed and it would be this thing. [00:14:41] Yeah. Um, and it was this thing where almost like this emotional, like kind of apex would hit. And I was like, I, I had this same kind of existential crisis. I remember writing about this in my freaking live journal when I was, you know, 17 or 18 years old and being like, you know, the antidepressants, maybe you don’t make me feel as much. [00:14:59] And then I [00:15:00] can’t create as much. And, and so I’m not wanting to kill myself, but I also don’t know how to create. And I need to have this balance where I have this depression, which I need to be able to fuel my like creativity. Right. Uh, because I would even find times like, like if I would be on my period or other things where I would have like these, these creative verses and I would write really good, you know, stories and really good, you know, essays and, and things, the problem. [00:15:24] And this is I’m sure, probably a problem for you too, is that yeah. The, the manic stuff and like the Coke and whatnot, you can be really. Um, prolific and you can create really well, but if it is a, a sustained episode or if you’re on a really long vendor, then it goes away. Right. I think that’s important to recognize is that too much? [00:15:48] It it’s that balance cuz too much absolutely kills it and gets rid of anything. And then you’re on a manic, you know, episode or you’re on a Coke bender and you’re hurting the people around you and you’re not creating. [00:16:00] Right. And, and you’re spending all your money and you’re, you know, like making destructive decisions and you’re hurting your body and you’re hurting the people in your life. [00:16:07] So don’t know, I pushed back a little bit on the idea that you can’t be creative and that you can’t create without these things happening. I think that there’s probably a way, like, I think it’s probably true that without having one of these episodes or being on some sort of stimulant. That you probably would not be able to have the adrenaline to push through and do what you did in 24 hours. [00:16:33] I would also say that I don’t know if doing all that work in 24 hours is something that like you should be striving to do. Right. Like I think that I, I, I, just, to be honest with you, I don’t think that that’s something that you should strive to do. I think it’s great that you did it. I’m sure your team is really impressed, but I also feel like having one week to do what sounded like a massive project, a seems sort of, you know, nuts B you know, I [00:17:00] also wanna give you some credit. [00:17:01] You’d been thinking about this for a long time, so it’s not as if you hadn’t been mentally contemplating and kind of trying to draw out in your head, like what the solutions could be, right. And then you just needed the push, which in this case was probably a combination of the, the, the, the mania and the, the time deadline. [00:17:18] Brett: Pressure. Yeah. [00:17:19] Christina: The pressure to, to get there. Right. But you, you had all those components there. So I don’t know. I would push back on the idea that you can’t create without those things. And if you’re not feeling things and if you feel like, okay, I feel fine, but I don’t feel like I’m living. That’s a bigger problem. And I have that problem sometimes too. [00:17:37] I’ll be honest with you. I think that’s one of the biggest challenges with drugs, [00:17:40] Brett: stability felt like constant, low grade depression. And for me, depression is not creative. Like I do. I just [00:17:49] Christina: no, for, for, [00:17:49] Brett: stare at a [00:17:50] Christina: well, for, for me, it, it’s not always, there’d be the least pains where I would just feel like these really kind of like deep things and I would be writing. Cause I used to journal all the [00:18:00] time and I would get to these points or if I was writing essays where I could really kind of hone in on something, it would be really good. [00:18:06] Right. And I, I could really feel, but again, like then the depression would maybe get to a point where, okay, now I can’t get out of bed. So who cares? So. I, you know, I get what you’re saying, cause this is, I think one of the critiques and the challenges that most of us who are on drugs to keep us from killing ourselves or from like spiraling out of control deal with, which is that many of them do dull our census to the point that like, we feel like we’re drones and we don’t feel like we’re doing anything. [00:18:34] And, and that sucks. I wish that there was a way that you could consistently have, you know, a, you know, every six weeks or so. One of these, you know, periods of time where you could have this, if, if, if, if people could bottle that up and sell it, I think that that would be amazing, but I will say. I will push back on the idea. [00:18:55] I think that you can create without it, and, and it might be a matter of having to like [00:19:00] reassess and like reframe in your own mind what creation is, because sometimes we set things up. I mean, I know that I did this where I, there was a period of time where I thought the only way I can be creative is if I’m depressed and that isn’t, I don’t feel that way anymore. [00:19:14] Um, I, I, I, I don’t, but, but it took a long time and frankly, probably a lot of therapy of me and, and like a lot of work like that. I did myself of like mentally kind of thinking about things and having to like readjust and go, no, I can’t have these aspects and these times, and it might not be that spark of that outra of, of, of emotion and, and, you know, frustration and, and sadness. [00:19:37] Ends up in this art, but it, it, I can still, you know, create it other ways and it can still come out in other venues and maybe, and make it more sustainable. And maybe I don’t feel like, you know, at the end of it, it doesn’t feel like, oh, it’s this, this great thing that I’ve created, but I can do more creative things more consistently. [00:19:56] Um, [00:19:57] Brett: I’m interested in microdosing. [00:20:00] Um, I’ve heard for depression and for anxiety and for general productivity, microdosing, LSD can be very effective and a little crypto, and you can have that shit delivered on tiny papers to your door. Um, I was gonna ask, do you think you can microdose cocaine, but then I realized that’s basically what Adderall is. [00:20:25] Christina: I was gonna say, that’s basically what that is. There’s also, there have been people who’ve been, you know, these have been much more controlled studies, um, for microdosing and, and so I don’t know how possible it is to even get in on these things. But like, my doctor has talked to me about, you know, microdosing ketamine, which it I’m definitely interested [00:20:42] Brett: yeah. For depression. That’s a, and I think they, I think that’s also been studied for bipolar. [00:20:47] Christina: right. So I’m definitely interested in, in that. Um, I, I would be interested in microdosing, you know, like, like LSD or other things I don’t know about buying them off of, you know, the dark [00:21:00] web with crypto. And I’ll be honest with you. It’s just because I don’t know, like if you trust, like what’s in it, right? [00:21:04] Like the, like my, my big [00:21:07] Brett: I have a friend who does it, who’s found a good vendor. And I think about one out of five times, uh, the shipment gets confiscated. Um, and it, it has no legal repercussion for him, but he loses like a hundred bucks. [00:21:20] Christina: Right. And, and, and like, and like, that’s fine. And like, that’s fine. I think my bigger thing would be like, is somebody gonna lace it with fentanyl or something? Right. Like, like, like, which is unfortunately not a real, that’s not like a made up concern. Like, [00:21:35] Brett: L S D I don’t see any reason that they would cut it with. Like if you were buying heroin. Sure. You always run the risk of being cut with fentanyl. But if you’re talking about blotter paper, I just, I [00:21:47] Christina: I mean, I mean, probably I’m just saying, like, I’m just be, I mean, I might be, you know, a little bit paranoid there, but I just also don’t know what ions and what other things are in, in the drug trade. And, and so, you know, like it would be, [00:22:00] I don’t know, um, that, that feels. [00:22:03] Brett: I think, I think the only concern with LSD is that you get a bunk batch, uh, like you get ripped off and you get nothing. Um, I don’t see, I, I just do not know of any circumstance where LSD is cut. Uh, I, I don’t even think that’s, that’s possible. It’s possible to cut heroin with things that also give you opiate reactions. [00:22:25] Christina: Right? No, totally. [00:22:27] Brett: LSD is kind of its own thing. [00:22:29] Christina: no, no, 100%. I just, you know, in general, I’m just thinking like, you know, buying any of that stuff. I, I don’t know. You’re probably right. I mean, I, yeah, I don’t think it’s cut with anything and I don’t know how you would know, but it’s also, you know, there, there are, are complications. [00:22:44] There, there are places states that either of us live in, uh, I think Colorado is doing some of it where they are doing like more, um, you know, like decriminalized, like microdosing, um, things with, you know, um, Sicilian or [00:23:00] however you [00:23:00] Brett: Yeah, [00:23:00] Christina: you know, and psilocybin and things like that, where it can be done kind of like in a more controlled, you know, monitored setting. [00:23:08] Um, that’s interesting to me and I mean, I think that that would be, you know, I, I hope that more of this stuff takes off, especially well, who knows, because on the one hand we do have, you know, rising acceptance of, of marijuana as being legalized and, and at least, you know, um, some of these, these things for medical uses being like, not [00:23:29] Brett: All, all kinds of all kinds of hallucinogens are being decriminalized for medical use right now. [00:23:34] Christina: right. Which is great. I’m just saying at the same time, like women don’t have, um, autonomy of their bodies anymore. So, so like, you [00:23:41] Brett: who knows what happens? [00:23:43] Christina: So, so yeah, so, so it’s, it’s a weird situation, but I mean, that, that would be definitely something I think, worth looking at. But I would also say, I think with the creative struggle, I think that that. [00:23:54] I think some of that is a mental blocker and you might wanna wanna like start looking at how, and [00:24:00] like you might even be without, without intentionally doing it, you might be using that as a crutch and you might have a hangup where you’re saying, the only way I can create is if I had, if I’m in this instance and, and that might just not be true. [00:24:12] Brett: I’m I’m explor. I’m on a waiting list for a new therapist right now, but it’s like a year long waiting list. So I’m exploring other options, but I’ll keep you posted on that. How’s your, uh, how’s your mental health? [00:24:24] Christina: It’s okay. Like I said, it was really good to travel. Like that was, that did so many good things for my mental health. Like just being around different people and like being out again, like I really, the last two and a half years has been bad on all of us, but like, it’s just it’s sucked. And so it was really, really nice to be like out again and in other cities, because I really enjoy that. [00:24:48] Um, but yeah, I do have some depression right now for sure. And I’m not really sure. I’m getting emotionally, I’m talking about it. I’m not even sure like how to address [00:25:00] it because I, I do feel like I probably need to complete like med, like kind of rebel [00:25:06] Brett: And [00:25:06] Christina: and, um, and that’s gonna take time and that’s even the, even the, the, the thought that like is just overwhelming, but, um, but in brighter news, like my office, it’s not completely clean, but it is in significantly better shape than it’s been in, in, well over a year and a half. [00:25:25] And, uh, and so that’s really good. And it’s it’s, and it’s done it’s process of getting better and that’s going to help significantly [00:25:32] Brett: and you have an Amelda Marcos wall behind you. Um, [00:25:37] Christina: of shoes. Yeah. [00:25:38] Brett: no, that, so the fact that you are going through what you’re going through right now makes your Tel Aviv schedule even more impressive like that you were able to pull that off while also going through clinical depression. That’s amazing. [00:25:53] Christina: Yeah, well, I mean, that helps with the clinical depression to be completely honest. Um, well, it’s, it is this, and it’s this weird thing because, um, you know, [00:26:00] they, they call it, I think like exposure therapy or something where like, you have to do things when you don’t feel like you need to do them. And in that case, like I was in, um, you know, Copenhagen and that was amazing. [00:26:13] I was with people and then I was in Tel Aviv and there is a certain sense to this. And I think that this is maybe how I’ve dealt with a lot of things over the years is just by being so busy that you can’t even think about how you’re feeling, [00:26:28] Brett: Yeah. [00:26:29] Christina: um, which may or may not be healthy. It’s probably not the healthiest, but it’s also to [00:26:34] Brett: like in [00:26:35] Christina: but to be candid is [00:26:36] Brett: it’s like clinical, like if you actually had, if you were grieving something and you had like feelings you really needed to process, then sure. It would be unhealthy to distract yourself. But when you’re dealing with like a chemical imbalance, I don’t, I don’t think it’s terribly unhealthy to find workarounds like that. [00:26:56] Yeah. [00:26:56] Christina: No, I don’t either. Like, that’s what I’m saying. Like I’m saying, I’m sure that there might be [00:27:00] people who would disagree with that. But no, for me, I actually do think that the best course of action on that is just to be busy and to be consumed by things. I think that’s historically actually, why I’ve been a workaholic is, is not so much that I’m like so driven by ambition. [00:27:17] Although I am ambitious. It’s it’s, it’s been more about the more downtime I have the more time I can, you know, like have to actually feel like the depression, which is hard. [00:27:29] Brett: Yeah. All right. Well, would you like to do the Zocdoc read or [00:27:37] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say, no, I can do the, the Z doc read. And like, I like actually I think, um, that’s a, uh, a good segue here. [00:27:44] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:27:44] Christina: So if you are looking for a new therapist or someone else to maybe, uh, help you find legal ways of microdosing, um, or just, you know, treatment in general for, for anything, um, Z doc might be a place you wanna [00:28:00] check out. [00:28:01] If your doctor can recite every line from Ferris Pier’s day off, but can’t remember your name. It’s time to get a new doctor with Zocdoc. Zoc makes it easy to find quality doctors in your network and your neighborhood. [00:28:13] Plus with real verified patient reviews, you can find the right doctor for you. One that actually remembers your name. BU. Viewer anyway, Zoc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance and are available when you need them on Zoc. You can find every specialist under the sun, whether you’re trying to straighten those teeth, fix an achy back, get that mold checked out or anything else Zoc has you covered Zox mobile app is as easy as ordering a ride to a restaurant or getting delivery to your house. [00:28:46] You search find and book doctors with a few taps find and review. Local doctors read verified patient reviews from people who made real appointments. And now when you walk into the doctor’s office, you’re all set to see someone in your network who gets [00:29:00] you. So you can go to z.com. Find a doctor that is right for you and book an appointment in person or remotely that works for your schedule every month. [00:29:08] Millions of people use Zocdoc. I’m one of them. It has been my go-to genuinely for years when I need to find a quality doctor. It’s especially useful too. If you are in another city, um, assuming it’s a place that doesn’t have universal healthcare and you need to find a doctor and one that takes your insurance Zoc is a fantastic, uh, use case for that. [00:29:28] So you can go to zoc.com/ Overtired and download the Zoc app for free. Then you can start your search for a top rated doctor. Today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s Zoc do c.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. Zoc [00:29:49] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:29:49] Brett: Thanks. Thanks, Christina. Um, today’s episode is also brought to you by text expander. One of our favorite apps, get your team communicating faster so [00:30:00] they can focus on what’s most important with text expander. Your team’s knowledge is at their fingertips. Get your whole team on the same page by getting information out of silos and into the hands of everyone that needs to use. [00:30:12] You can share your team’s knowledge across departments. So your team is sending a unified message to your customers and isn’t spending time reinventing the wheel. Here’s how it works. First. You store it, keep your company’s most used emails, phrases, messaging, URLs, and more right within text expander. [00:30:29] Then you can share it, get your whole team access to all the content they need to use every day. And then you expand it, type a couple keys and deploy the content you need with just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps you use. It’s that easy text expanders available on Mac windows, Chrome, iPhone, and iPad and Overtired listeners. [00:30:50] Get 20% off their first year. Just visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander. Um, I also. [00:31:00] Realized like you talk, you talk about tax expender and you’re like, put your, anything. You repeat a bunch of times you want to have a tax expender to save you time, but there’s also a use case for shit. [00:31:11] You only use once a year, uh, because you gotta, like, I have the, every once in a while I get like, uh, a customer service question. That is a valid question and I have a valid response to, but I want to see what I sent a year ago when I last responded to that question. So what I’ve been doing is when I send an email and I’m like, this is gonna come up again far into the future. [00:31:38] I will drop it into text expander and give it not a short abbreviation, but a memorable label. Uh, and with text expanders, new search features, I can search by label and easily find it with a couple keystrokes. Uh, this snippet that I knew I was gonna need at some point, even though I don’t use it every day. [00:31:59] Um, so [00:32:00] definitely text expenders for more than just things you type repetitively. [00:32:04] Christina: I use it for things like that a lot where, uh, it’s like a one off thing that I’m using occasionally, but I’m not going to remember what I’m doing. And so this is just a really easy way of, of saving myself time from, from having to go back and search it up again. [00:32:19] Like I, but I love that idea of using it almost as a pace bin, you know, for like your knowledge base of stuff. That’s really smart. [00:32:27] Let’s Talk Mackstock [00:32:27] Brett: Um, so max stock is next weekend. Um, I, I, I told Aaron that I would give you shit for, for missing this one. After you said you might come. [00:32:40] Christina: I know. I’m [00:32:41] Brett: We are very forgiven, given your, your new gig, all your travel, all of that. It’s understandable. Uh, we do hope all of us at max stock hope that you make it next year. [00:32:53] Um, [00:32:54] Christina: I, I will, I. I will keep, I will make a commitment right here right now that I will be at the next one. Like [00:33:00] we will, as soon as it’s available, I will submit a paper and I will be there whether I speak or not. And I will buy tickets as soon as they’re available. So I’m there next year. This year just didn’t work out because of, yeah, just all the travel and the new job and the other commitments, just, it didn’t work out, but I will, I will definitely be there next year, but Erin is, is giving a talk, right? [00:33:20] Brett: yeah. Yeah. Aaron, Aaron ha there’s only six speakers total this year. It’s a pretty small year this year, which is why like, I mean, it’s like Mac world where the talks are. Okay. But you really go [00:33:35] Christina: You’re going for the 100%. [00:33:37] Brett: And it’s, it’s lower attendance this year, which I’m, I’m hoping, uh, I’m still hoping to see a bunch of people that I only get to see once a year. [00:33:46] Um, but I’m hoping that next year things get back up to the numbers that it was at. Um, but anyway, Erin is one of six speakers this year and she is giving a talk on how to, how a non-musician can. [00:34:00] Like a soundtrack for a video using logic or garage band, um, and like giving you the, the basic tools to make something that sounds good custom, that YouTube will never ding you for copyright infringement on. [00:34:17] Um, cuz she, she went to school for music. She is, she is a musician. Um, her day job is technical writer, but she is, you know, using logic every day and uh, both Ellen and I are very excited to see this because Elda social media for the business she works at, um, and finding, uh, royalty free when you wanna publish a clip. [00:34:41] Christina: Oh, it’s a nightmare. [00:34:43] Brett: Yeah, no, but we’re both excited to, uh, to, to, to hear this talk from Aaron, uh, Jay Miller, he’s also giving a talk this [00:34:50] Christina: Yeah. I know Jay. Hm. [00:34:52] Brett: And then a couple of, a couple of presenters dropped out. Uh, Mike says with very legitimate reasons, uh, [00:35:00] he’s not upset about it, but like I had, my big thing was this year, I’m not gonna speak, I’ve spoken for the last four or five years. [00:35:08] And this year I was just gonna go and be social and have fun. Uh, but then these speakers dropped out and I got an email from Mike titled. I hate to ask, but, um, and this is, this is like yesterday, like with a week to go. So I was like, I can’t, I can’t prep, uh, 60 minutes worth of presentation in a week. I’m sorry. [00:35:30] It’s it’s my vacation. But what I will do is a panel. Um, and I, at first I was like, oh, me and Jay could do like an, an automators AMA. Like ask me, ask me anything about like Mac automation or iOS automation. But what we ended up deciding on was I will do a panel at the end of each day with the three presenters from that day. [00:35:55] And we will do like an extended Q and a, and, and [00:36:00] conversation with the we presenters. We’re gonna call it maybe after stock hosted by Brett Terpstra. [00:36:07] Christina: Oh, I love that. See, that’s really good. No, I think that’ll be [00:36:10] Brett: that was, that was Aaron’s idea for the name. Mine was taking stock, but after stock is definitely catchier. [00:36:17] Christina: I think after stock is really good and it, it, it’s kind of a, a that it works on a couple levels. That’s really creative. Well done. Erin also, I hope that, um, her, um, talk will be online somewhere because I definitely need that. Um, because I run at this problem all the time where I’m needing to use royalty free music. [00:36:34] And what happens is that even when you have the license to use it royalty free, Fuckers will claim that shit on YouTube and then you have to go through no, no, but it’s, it’s annoying. Cause this has happened on like actual, like, like keynote videos that like Microsoft has done where like we own the music and like it is Realty free, but like [00:36:54] Brett: I’ve heard, I’ve heard that, that happening. Two musicians who [00:36:58] Christina: that. Exactly. Oh [00:37:00] totally. And then, and then you have to submit, you know, all kinds of like forms to YouTube, proving that you, you know, own the license to it and this and that. And, and I can’t even imagine if you’re the author of the music. I’ve heard that, that happening to them too. And it’s like, are, are you fucking kidding me? [00:37:12] But because, because people will, will do this stuff and then they’ll wanna get, you know, all of the, um, the ad revenue. And like in the Microsoft’s case, it’s even more annoying because we’re not, we don’t put ads on our videos. So the, you would’ve two options, one monetize the video and all the money then goes. [00:37:30] To these, these assholes who are completely illegally claiming things, or two, you have to like sub out just like, you know, mute, mute where the, the 15 seconds or wherever it is, where the music is playing, but, you know, but, but that can be frustrating. So I think that you can, it’s definitely easier to get around this, if you can create something original and I don’t know where to even start with that. [00:37:53] So I’m definitely would wanna watch [00:37:55] Brett: bit of basic music composition. Foundations, like just [00:38:00] the basics. You can take royalty free loops that come with like logic and garage band and you can customize them into something that people haven’t heard before. Uh, cuz we’ve all heard the garage band loops, you know, too many times. [00:38:15] And they’re the like IMO of like iMovie [00:38:18] Christina: Yeah. Do do do. Yeah, exactly. Like, like we all, we all know what they sound like. [00:38:23] Brett: just a little bit of built using the built in tools and effects and like keyboard. Like yeah. I’m excited to see how Erin, how Erin breaks this down. Plus she’s really funny. She’s a great presenter. I think [00:38:36] Good Managerial Skills Are Important In Life [00:38:36] Christina: no, this is gonna be awesome. And, um, also just to go back to you a second, like you got promoted, which is massive and I’m super excited for you. And I mean, for, for people who are listening, who aren’t in, like the, the software field going from like senior to principal is a really big band jump. [00:38:52] Um, and, and that’s like a, especially since also, I think you’ve changed specialties even like in terms of like job description. So this is [00:39:00] really major and like, you deserve major kudos for this. And if, and if they don’t come through on like the salary, um, The fact that you have principal software engineer on your resume is going to open up so many doors. [00:39:16] So I really hope that they come through, but if they don’t, then this has just made you who are, is already enormously valuable, like even more so. And I know that I, I think you’ve had some, not imposter syndrome, but maybe like lack of self-esteem around some of your abilities for the last couple of years, because you’ve been out of like the traditional workforce for a while. [00:39:36] Cuz you’ve been doing your own thing. I hope that this helps reaffirm to you that you’re as amazing as we always tell you are because now like, you know, like one of the biggest software companies in the world has given you a promotion. Of significant value. Like, I don’t know what the, what the promo process is at Oracle, but I was trying to get principal for years at Microsoft. [00:39:57] Didn’t get it. I will hopefully be getting [00:40:00] the at, at, at, um, we call it staff at GitHub. That’ll hopefully be coming, you know, sooner rather than later. But, but like the, the promo process was this long, like drawn out thing that had to have all kinds of, you know, like people writing things up and, and packets and discussion and all kinds of stuff. [00:40:20] And it’s just very involved and also very political. So the fact that you got it in a year is, uh, and I don’t know what you had to do to go through to get that, but I’m very proud of you. [00:40:30] Brett: I have a manager who really looks out for me. Like I think we, I think I’ve talked about it. Like we’ve never clicked on a personal level. Uh, not the way I did with some of my previous managers and just like being able to shoot the shit and, and have great one-on-one meetings and everything. But this guy, Manish, he looks out for me. [00:40:49] He like, as soon as he saw that my responsibilities had expanded and that I was doing more software development and I was managing the GitHub organization for the team [00:41:00] and like doing stuff way beyond the scope of technical writer, like he immediately started putting in paperwork to find an appropriate job wreck for me and, and push that through. [00:41:13] And I didn’t have to do anything. . Uh, and if I, if like the day after I had my manic episode, I let him know that I had gotten no sleep, but I had finished this thing. He went ahead and rescheduled all of my meetings for the day. And like, just like gave me the day off basically, uh, just to cover my ass and like, he’s a good guy. [00:41:34] He’s a really [00:41:34] Christina: a great guy. No, he sounds like he’s a fantastic manager. Like, it sounds like he’s actually like exactly what you want out of a manager, [00:41:40] Brett: Yeah. Well, [00:41:41] Christina: not really somebody to be your friend. Right? You want them to watch out for you and to do these things and to, and to, you know, advocate for you. [00:41:48] Brett: I saw a Twitter thread that was directed towards managers, like 10 things, a manager shouldn’t do. And I was reading through it and I’m like, yeah, Manish, Manish. Like he doesn’t do any [00:42:00] of these things. And he, he does all the dos and he doesn’t do the don’ts and yeah, he nails it. [00:42:05] He’s [00:42:05] A Little Trauma [00:42:05] Brett: good. Um, I, I wanted to space this story away from our sponsor reads a little bit, but I have to tell you a very. Traumatic story. Um, this happened to me a couple weeks ago now, but we were on break and I didn’t get to say it, say it while it was fresh, but so I’m driving down the highway and it’s busy and all of a sudden everything slows down. [00:42:31] And I see that there are two doughs, um, doing their, like confused, like how do I get off the highway thing? And one of them has just been clipped, uh, both of its back legs broken. Um, and so traffic is, they’re like driving around it as it’s like dragging itself across the highway. So three of us, uh, me, a martial arts [00:43:00] instructor and the like Nigerian college student who had clipped it. [00:43:06] I’ll pulled over to the side of the road and, and we stop traffic and we drag this deer off into the ditch on the side of the road and it’s up against the lake. So there’s tall grass and everything. And, uh, we immediately call in to try to get the DNR to come out, cuz this, this steer has no chance. Um, it’s not gonna survive. [00:43:26] Um, and, uh, the martial arts instructor, I’m like, I got this we’ll we’ll hang out. And so I hang out with the kid, um, and we wait for. Almost half an hour with no sign of anyone coming. Meanwhile, the deer is wild-eyed and, and doing like guttural moans and trying to drag itself deeper into the grass. And I couldn’t, I couldn’t take it. [00:43:52] And, um, by that was his name, we agreed, uh, we had to do something [00:44:00] and I’m a vegetarian, I have no interest in killing a living creature. Um, but we decided it was the right thing to do. And so I, I gave him my, my, my five inch pocket knife. Um, and I held the deer’s front legs down. I gotta say, we realized in the process that it was pregnant, which made this even worse for me. [00:44:30] Um, and, and he slid its throat and I’ve never done this before. I didn’t realize it takes like 10 minutes for a deer to bleed out when you, when you slice its jugular. Um, and I tried to explain this and how traumatic it was for me to my brother. Um, and I used the words, it was fucking traumatic, and I forgot how religious my brother is and how uncomfortable the word fuck would make him. [00:44:55] And he seemed to focus on that. But then he he’s like, yeah, [00:45:00] no, I went hunting for the first time last year. I’m like, you, you did that on purpose. So you don’t understand, don’t understand where I’m coming from with this. Um, like you made a choice to do that to something, but that was, I, I, I kept my cool through it. [00:45:17] Uh, like that kid was just as scared, uh, and just as fucked up about it as I was. And, and we kind of had this bonding moment over as I handed him a rag to clean up all the blood. Um, [00:45:31] Christina: Yeah. I mean, and did, did, did DNR, did they ever show [00:45:34] Brett: I don’t know. We, we waited until the deer had taken its left breath and we left it. We pulled it back up to the side of the road where they could find it. Um, and then we went home and I just, I, when I told Elle what had happened, I just broke down just shaking and crying. That was, that was so hard. I, I really hope I never have to [00:46:00] do that again. [00:46:00] It’s hard enough putting animals down humanely like pets, uh, you know, when you can do a comfort hold and you can watch them peacefully go, but basically having to murder a sentient creature is definitely not on my list of experiences. I wanna repeat ever, [00:46:19] Christina: No. I mean, I’m so glad that both of you were there and that you could at least be there humanely, like the, the only, I mean, look, you did the right thing because you don’t know how long it was gonna be for anybody to show up. And, and if they would’ve known the right process to maybe be able to expedite what the process would be like, cuz it’s possible. [00:46:38] Maybe there would be a way to make it bleed out fast. I don’t know. I, I [00:46:41] Brett: a gun, a gun or a hammer would’ve made the process a lot shorter for the deer, but we had neither. [00:46:49] Christina: Right. And, but what I mean, though, is that like the, the, the death was gonna be inevitable. And so you have to like, kind of like balance, like, you know, you’re watching this creature suffer, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s [00:47:00] got like two broken legs. It’s not going to be okay. Like it’s and it’s in, it’s in pain and it’s suffering and you, you did the right thing. [00:47:06] Well, what a terrible situation to be in. I’m so sorry. I, I can’t even imagine. And also you don’t have to be mad at him because he’s your brother, but I can cuz I will never meet him, but fuck your brother, man. Like to like focus on, on like the, the adjective, you know, to like, to like, or adver or whatever, you know, to, to focus on that rather than the fact that you’ve had to, you know, put down a, a living creature and then to, and then to have the Tim to like compare it to hunting, which as you said, that’s his choice also. [00:47:39] Less because it’s a gun, you know, hopefully less traumatic, you know, like just [00:47:44] Brett: I’m pretty down on my whole family right now, my brother is visiting and he do, he brought his three kids and his sister-in-law’s three kids cuz they had a whole marriage problem and she dumped. So I had six [00:48:00] kids under 10 years old and I was supposed to like visit and hang out with them and like it’s, they’re so religious and it, it was, it’s just, I can’t, I can’t handle my family. [00:48:13] I don’t like my family. I want a new [00:48:19] Christina: we all feel that way sometimes, but yeah. [00:48:22] Brett: I feel that way all the time now. I mean, so like breakfast with my parents, I’ve realized like we can talk about technology and how amazing like computers are these days. But we can’t talk about like once you get into biology, Or, or any kind of medical science you have to accept evolution. Like that’s a, that’s a prerequisite for all modern, um, biological sciences and, [00:48:54] Christina: I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, it is for technology too. Technology literally evolves, but, but yeah,[00:49:00] [00:49:00] Brett: but, but you can, you can, you can skirt around things like that. Um, when you’re just talking about computers, but we can’t, there’s so many things I can’t talk about with my family, cuz we just are always on that precipice of talking about things like evolution and atheism and theism and burning in hell and uh, anyway. [00:49:25] Maverick Schmaverick [00:49:25] Brett: Um, should we, should we do some gratitude? We have, we have such great movies to talk about, but I think we’ll save them. Maybe Jeff will have input. [00:49:34] Christina: Yeah, definitely. I will say this though. Like, I don’t know if you’re gonna have an opportunity to see top gun, but please go see top [00:49:40] Brett: Is it still in theaters? [00:49:42] Christina: It’s still in theaters. I think [00:49:43] Brett: All right. I might, I I’ve heard nothing but rave reviews people. I wouldn’t expect to be into a movie like top gun or like, holy shit. You gotta see top gun. [00:49:53] Christina: no, I, I, I I’ve been, I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it twice now. I’d like to see it a third time. It’s it’s [00:50:00] the it’s it reminds me of why I love movies. It’s it’s as simple as that. It’s as simple as that. It’s as simple as that, it, it reminds me of why I love the movies, especially if you can see it in a theater, because it really is one of those great theatrical experiences that like, I don’t give a shit how crazy Tom cruise is. [00:50:19] And I don’t give a shit if people are thinking this is some sort of propaganda for the government, it’s really not like the, the, the, you know, military aspect is actually toned down significantly from the original. I don’t give a fuck. Like, it’s a great ass movie. That just, it, it is why movies are such a special medium that’s that’s my pitch. [00:50:38] So, yeah. [00:50:40] Brett: right. I maybe we’ll see, like, I will definitely watch it as a rental at home, but, uh, but right now I think I would have to go to a theater if I wanted to see it. We’ll [00:50:52] Christina: Yeah, I think so. And, and like I said, it, it, I think it’s, it’s really great in the theater. And at this point, I don’t think that theaters would be super busy. So you could probably [00:51:00] feel safer in that regard. [00:51:01] Brett: it’s a motivation thing. I feel safe enough. Our, our community spirit, we’re in the green here right now. Um, and our theaters are never packed here. Like it’s not a safety concern. It’s a, do I really wanna, I, I like watching movies at home where I can hit pause, go to the bathroom, get a drink. um, and I can drink all the, all the beverage I want without having to worry that I’m gonna miss part of the movie when I have to pee. [00:51:28] Christina: right. No, I mean, fair enough. I’m just saying like that the, the, [00:51:31] Brett: and I can control the volume. [00:51:33] Christina: short, I’m just saying the sound and, and the visual experience for this film is really spectacular because they are not using CGI. [00:51:42] Brett: dune. I wish I had gone to see dune in the theater that that would be worth it to me, [00:51:47] Christina: And like, I will say just before we go into our gratitude, like, everybody’s talked about this at nausea, but it is worth saying like the fact that this is not a. CGI different things that they’re actually in planes, they’re actually doing these stunts that it’s [00:52:00] actually the real skyline behind you, that they’re in actual, you know what I mean? [00:52:04] Like that does change the whole concept. Like it, it, it, it makes it, it grounds it in a reality, even though it’s completely a fantasy, right. It grounds it in a reality in a way that, that you just, you cannot recreate that with technology. Like we, we talk, I love technology and, and, you know, visual effects have done so much for, you know, this for film, but there is a difference. [00:52:29] It’s not a video game. It is, you know, a, a, a different type of art form. Um, it’s better than it has any right to be. It’s one of those films where I was. You know, I went into it, excited about it, but also kind of like, there’s no way it’s gonna be that good because the reviews had just been incredible. And I saw it like it’s first weekend. [00:52:48] I also saw it in, um, San Diego, which was cool to see, um, because that’s where it takes place. And, uh, so the hometown crowd was very excited, but yeah, it’s, [00:53:00] it’s one of those films that as many other people have written about is it’s like, this is why the movies are the movies. So if you have a chance to see it in theaters, definitely do that. [00:53:09] It’s, it’ll be great at home too. But if you have a chance to see it in theaters, definitely do that. [00:53:15] Brett: All [00:53:15] Grapptitude [00:53:15] Christina: All right. Gratitude. [00:53:16] Brett: posted. Yeah. Do you want, do you have, do you have one [00:53:19] Christina: I do have one. Yes. All. So this is called virtual buddy, and this is from, uh, GME Rambo, um, uh, underscore inside on Twitter and it is on GitHub and it is fantastic. So, uh, GME, uh, is, uh, responsible for everybody and a number of other, um, Kind of a, like macapp, he’s, um, a prolific, uh, Mac OS iOS kind of hacker, where he finds a lot of hidden things and apples APIs and finds hidden, you know, versions and, and stuff, you know, hidden around in, uh, in their stuff. [00:53:54] He’s fantastic. But virtual buddy, this is for apple Silicon. It is amazing. It basically [00:54:00] lets you virtualize Mac O S 12 or later on apple Silicon in a really easy way. So rather than having to deal with some of the stuff with, with parallels, um, or anything else like it’s using, you know, like the, the, um, I guess virtual kit or hyper kit or whatever hypervisor, kit, whatever it’s called in, um, Mac O S um, and it is great cuz I, this is what, what I’m using to play around with, um, the latest versions of Ventura. [00:54:24] because I don’t wanna deal with creating APS containers and trying to boot into external drives and whatnot, cuz it’s a pain in the ass. It is. And, and, and this makes it much easier already. Right now I will put the, uh, GitHub link in, um, our show notes, but already it has the ability to boot into, uh, any version of Mac S 12 or Mac S 13, including betas. [00:54:47] There’s a built-in install wizard. You can select from a collection of restore images that are on apple servers, but you can also load a local restore image. I P S w or you can like point it to a custom restore image. [00:55:00] You can boot into recovery mode. Um, in order to disable S I P for instance, there’s networking and file share support. [00:55:07] He has clipboard sharing, um, without the need to be running Ventura, uh, that’s an experimental right now, but it’s there. And then on his to-do list is things like editing in VRAM variables and customizing the virtual machine, um, config. So right now, um, It it’s, it’s really, really good. And it’s, it’s OSS. [00:55:27] Like I just, I can’t say enough good things about it. And, and I, um, I feel a little guilty cuz I also chose this as, uh, a story that I covered on the download this week, but frankly, it’s so good. Like I want more people to be aware of it. And I think for our audience of listeners, this is definitely one of those apps that is great. [00:55:44] It is apple Silicon only. So if you’re still in an Intel Mac, you’re gonna have to continue doing things the hard way. Um, so on my iMac, I have to do it the hard way, but it’s, it’s really, really great. And I, uh, huge, huge fan.[00:56:00] [00:56:00] Brett: Perfect. I wish there was a, a way to virtualize older OSS [00:56:05] Christina: I know, I know. [00:56:07] Brett: is not [00:56:08] Christina: There’s not, I mean that, I think someone will figure something out. It’ll have to be running through, you know, like chemo or, or, or something like that. Um, and someone will figure it out, but that, that is definitely a difficulty, uh, on another episode, at some point, we’ll have to talk about some of my adventures of doing various, um, retro gaming stuff on my steam deck. [00:56:29] Brett: nice. Cool. [00:56:31] Christina: What about you? [00:56:32] Brett: All right. So we’ve covered better touch tool before, but, uh, but Andreas just released, uh, better touch tool with stream deck support, [00:56:42] Christina: Nice. [00:56:42] Brett: which he has been teasing for ever now. And I have been excitedly waiting and it’s out now and I’ve revamped my whole stream deck to use better touch tool widgets. [00:56:56] Um, it gives you like full two-way [00:57:00] integration and makes your stream deck fully scriptable. So you can have like anything on your computer can now like trigger different groups and, and buttons on your stream deck and your, and your buttons can show like status. Like I have a whole page of like bunch buttons and they light up green when that bunch is active and, um, Uh, and I, I had this script called BTT stats that, uh, I originally built when I was doing all those touch bar experiments. [00:57:30] And it can add buttons to your touch bar and then function as the status script for that button. Um, I updated it to work with, uh, stream deck buttons. So now, now you can add widgets to your stream deck and Andreas already released, uh, a CPU. Usage widget and a now playing widget and a weather widget that are ready to go without any of my scripting. [00:57:56] Um, it is it’s, it’s super [00:58:00] fun. It’s fantastic. Uh, you have the option to run it as a plugin, so you can drag like a stream deck button into, uh, uh, better touch to a, a better touch tool button in the stream deck software, and then assign it to like a specific, uh, widget or, uh, better touch tool can completely take over control of your stream deck. [00:58:22] And, and it’s like the beauty of the stream deck software is the drag and drop in being able to just like modify a button visually. Uh, you can’t do, you can’t do that with better touch tool. Uh, you have to kind of put things in the right order and then expect them to display properly. It’s it’s entirely workable and way more powerful. [00:58:47] Uh, but it does take a little extra fiddling. Um, totally fun though. Both of those will be linked in the show notes along with virtual buddy and yeah, I, I think we saved the rest of [00:59:00] these topics. We we’ve had, we we’ve covered mental health and jobs and max stock and mercy killing and top gun. It’s been a, this, this has been a roller Coover episode. [00:59:14] Welcome back. [00:59:15] Christina: Thank you very much, um, glad to be back and I’m gonna be even more excited when Jeff is with us in the next episode. [00:59:21] Brett: We gotta schedule that recording. [00:59:23] Christina: Definitely. [00:59:24] Brett: I’m off for the next two weeks. Other [00:59:26] Christina: Yay. [00:59:27] Brett: gone next weekend for max stock, we we’ll figure it out. [00:59:30] Christina: That’s so exciting. Enjoy your vacation. Congrats on the promo. Um, and, um, uh, my condolences for what you had to deal with with, um, the, um, with the deer. But, um, I’m also glad that, uh, you were able to talk about that and, uh, uh, yeah. [00:59:45] Brett: Yeah. All right. Well, Christina, get some sleep. [00:59:48] Christina: Get some sleep rep.

Jeff’s driving this week, and he does a damn good job. Developer love languages, technology archaeology, and our host’s favorite apps for the week. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Marked Doing on GitHub Bunch Christina’s 1Password podcast appearance nvALT Gifski Lively ImageOptim Gifox Cleanshot X Cloudapp Droplr Dropshare Skitch Talking Carl Beets.io Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript ~/.love [00:00:00] Christina: You are listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren joined as always by Brett Terpstra and Jeff severance. Gunzel how are you guys doing [00:00:13] Brett: Oh, oh, I mean, tired. That’s appropriate [00:00:17] Christina: I, I mean, it is the name of the podcast that I came up with like seven years ago, eight years ago. Oh my God. While we were tired. [00:00:25] Brett: in an elevator. Yeah. [00:00:27] Christina: an elevator at Twitter at Twitter [00:00:30] Brett: Oh, that’s right. It wasn’t the Twitter HQ. Wasn’t it. [00:00:33] Christina: it was [00:00:34] Jeff: That’s a good origin story. [00:00:37] Brett: speaking. [00:00:38] I, I [00:00:38] have, I have some great news for you guys. Um, speaking of Twitter, this podcast has been acquired by Elon Musk. Um, which [00:00:47] Jeff: Oh, I [00:00:48] Brett: news. We no longer have to do sponsor reads. Uh, we also, we’re not [00:00:52] Jeff: have to come into the office. [00:00:54] Brett: negative about Elon or Tesla or SpaceX. Um, all jokes [00:01:00] have to be what Elon determines to be funny, but Hey, [00:01:04] Christina: okay. [00:01:05] Brett: you know, we’ll roll with it. [00:01:05] I’m obviously [00:01:07] Christina: I mean, look, this is what happens sometimes. [00:01:09] Brett: lying. [00:01:10] Christina: Clearly. I mean, because look, I will say that if Elon wanted to offer us like a shitload of money to sell out, um, I would totally do it. [00:01:19] Brett: What’s your price? [00:01:20] Jeff: for a ride space [00:01:22] Christina: I, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t [00:01:25] Jeff: without, without him a board. Sorry, go ahead, Christina. [00:01:29] Christina: No, no. It’s to say what my price would be. I mean, like for this pod, it, it would be cuz here’s the thing we could always just recreate our own thing. Like, you know what I mean? Like if, if, if, if it went to shit, so I don’t know, it wouldn’t even have to be that much. [00:01:41] Like it, it would have to be something, but, [00:01:43] Brett: would, for me, for me, it’s about 5 million, because if it was anything less than that, if anything, less than that, I could parlay that, Hey, we are a podcast that Elon offer $4 million for. So I could parlay that into other buyers. [00:02:00] If we were worth that to Elon, there’s some, there’s some legs to that 5 million though. [00:02:05] I’m I’m I I’ll sell out. It’s [00:02:08] Jeff: I’d do it for a pocket full of McDonald’s gift cards. [00:02:11] Christina: I was, I was like, I was thinking more like 50,000 and I’d be like, [00:02:15] Brett: oh my God. [00:02:16] Christina: yeah. Oh, I [00:02:17] Jeff: Mm-hmm [00:02:17] Brett: I make that in a minute. [00:02:19] Jeff: mm-hmm you know what though? How cool would it be if we only recorded the podcast from space? So every week we took a trip. and we recorded in space and that was our bit. [00:02:31] Christina: That, that [00:02:32] Brett: We record [00:02:32] Christina: cool. That’d be cool. [00:02:33] Brett: would all three of us in a space shuttle recording a podcast. Why [00:02:38] Jeff: it’s a monthly podcast. [00:02:40] Brett: Why does the ISS not have a podcast? [00:02:43] Jeff: I mean, they’ve got enough social media coming out of them. [00:02:46] Brett: I haven’t paid attention. Do they? [00:02:49] Jeff: Yeah. They’ve always got someone who’s good at working it up there. Just [00:02:52] Brett: Huh? We have a social media intern at work now and I don’t want to talk shit. So that’s all I’m gonna say.[00:03:00] [00:03:00] Jeff: literally just talked shit. [00:03:02] Christina: I was gonna say like, like, like now, now, now, now, because you’re gonna have to be the one who, who, who potentially edits this segment out of it. So you’re like, I don’t wanna talk shit, but is this someone like you’re working closely with, like, this is this an intern on your team? [00:03:14] Brett: This is an intern on my team who yesterday I was supposed to be in a meeting to assign them, to help them learn copywriting. And I missed the meeting. I feel really bad cuz Victor had to take that meeting on his own, he was hired as an intern to do social media, but he wants to get his hands dirty in copywriting. He wants to start blogging for us. And my, my S spitey senses are tangling. I doubt he listens to this podcast. [00:03:48] Jeff: know what [00:03:48] Christina: I’m [00:03:49] Jeff: he did, [00:03:49] Christina: does not. [00:03:50] Jeff: if he did, it would be the first five minutes. So you really should’ve, should’ve stopped this one at the end. [00:03:57] Christina: It’s true. It’s true. But, but I [00:04:00] feel pretty strongly [00:04:01] Brett: kicking off strong. And I [00:04:02] Christina: Yeah, but I was gonna say, like, I feel very strongly that this, this kid is absolutely never going to listen to this podcast or look at your Twitter or look at the social media of like any, any person who is [00:04:12] Brett: feel like if anyone else on my team listens to this, they’ll just smile and nod and be like, yep. [00:04:19] Christina: And, and if, if they don’t, if they’d be like, oh, did you mean so? And so you’re just like, no, you know, like if they’re upset [00:04:26] Brett: no. The other social media [00:04:28] Christina: exactly, exactly. [00:04:30] Jeff: Oh, that’s an [00:04:30] Christina: they don’t know you’re you’re remote. You don’t know. [00:04:32] Brett: you ain’t know me. [00:04:34] Jeff: We’re fucked up. We broadcast from space. It just messes with your head. [00:04:38] Christina: Yeah. I like it. I’m [00:04:41] Jeff: did you see that guys? [00:04:44] Brett: Um, Jeff you’re driving. Tell us [00:04:47] Jeff: Oh, that’s right. I’m driving. All right, everybody get in and maybe go to the bathroom first. Just at least try. Um, which is what we tell our kids. Just try. That’s not true. They’re all like grown. They’re like grown men now, but [00:05:00] that’s what we used to tell. ’em um, give it a push. Not that’s the kinda shit that does come out sometimes. [00:05:06] And, and, and my wife quickly, like, Hey, just, you know, wait till they’re older. [00:05:10] Brett: it a good push [00:05:11] Jeff: um, okay. Let’s do, um, a mental health check here, uh, and see, I wanna see how you are doing cuz uh, you know, it’s been a few days only, but Christina, how are you doing [00:05:23] Christina: okay. Um, so I, uh, I’m going out of town this weekend and I’m gonna be gone for like 10 days, uh, my first international trip in a couple of years. So I’m excited about that, but I’m also, you know, a little bit like not nervous, but just it’s the first time I’ve done this in a while. So. You know, trying to get back in the, in the swing of things. [00:05:40] I know you’re in a similar position. Um, Jeff and you’re going further away and, uh, to, uh, like you’re doing more important things than me. Um, [00:05:49] Jeff: things? No, I’m just traveling. [00:05:52] Christina: I thought you were like doing this for like work or like, [00:05:54] Jeff: No, that that was my Spain trip that I canceled. I, and everyone who went got COVID. But, um, [00:06:00] but yeah, this is just my family. Not just, this is my family trip to Kenya, but you’re headed out. You’re on an international trip. That is daunting after a while [00:06:07] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I’ve, I’ve done like the domestic travel, um, quite a bit, but I haven’t, I haven’t been like, you know, on a, on an airplane for like 10 hours at a time in a while. Uh, yeah. No, so I’m, I’m I’m okay. Uh, I, um, I had to test, uh, for, for COVID because I was exposed to someone, but I am negative. I will test again, um, like Friday I leave Saturday. [00:06:28] So I’m, you know, making sure that I’m gonna do all the right things, but I’m feeling fine. So I’m good on that front. Um, And, uh, we we’ve had a, a person coming in and, and cleaning our, um, our apartment and helping get us organized. And that’s been really, really good for my mental health. It was daunting at first. [00:06:45] I think we were gonna talk about this a little bit, [00:06:47] Brett: gonna have to talk more [00:06:48] Christina: but, but, but yeah, but, but we’ll we’ll table that, but I just wanna say, like that is actually having tremendous impact on my mental health, even though that was a very stressful thing at first. [00:06:57] Brett: but in a good way now. [00:06:58] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Like [00:07:00] just the fact that it’s getting done, like is, has really like relieved a lot of things for. [00:07:05] NyQuil. [00:07:06] Jeff: Yeah. Wow. That’s great. That’s great. Yeah, we’ll talk about that. How about you, Brett whiskey? [00:07:12] Brett: I, um, I continue to be stable months without a manic episode, which is it’s. It’s great. I I’ve been having, I, I wake up these days at like 3:00 AM every day and I have to take like, what’s that I take this, like over the counter sleeping medication to fall back asleep. Uh, Psalm something. No, not NyQuil. Uh, I can’t remember. [00:07:40] I’ll I’ll, I’ll bring the bottle with me next week and tell you what’s working for me. whiskey. Um, no, uh, but, but I’ve been dreaming a lot about cocaine. I really, uh, being stable apparently makes me crave drugs. Um, I feel like that’s [00:08:00] come up for a few weeks in a row now. [00:08:02] Jeff: Mm-hmm [00:08:03] Brett: I’m clean, I’m sober, I’m stable. [00:08:07] And I, what, what more could you ask for, I mean, [00:08:12] Jeff: shit. [00:08:14] Brett: I mean, other than, you know, dying in a drug-fueled binge [00:08:22] Jeff: No, don’t ask for that now. I guess, [00:08:24] Brett: no, my cat, my cat started vomiting blood yesterday or a couple days ago. [00:08:30] Jeff: full time. Hold on. I’m just trying to imagine [00:08:33] Brett: Mortality. I just, I [00:08:34] Jeff: Oh, okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. [00:08:37] Brett: flip to mortality because I’ve been just dreading the end of life for Yeti for so long now. [00:08:45] And he’s been through this before, where he’s vomited blood and we got him on new meds and we actually, I wasn’t even sure that meds were doing anything anymore, but we missed one day of the meds and then we found blood on the floor. [00:09:00] Um, and it’s made me realize that we’re, we’re keeping him alive, maybe past his. [00:09:07] His due date, but, uh, but it, it always brings to mind like mortality for me. Uh, yet he’s been with me for almost 20 years now and he’s, he’s my confidant. He’s my friend. He, he has lasted longer than any relationship I’ve ever had. My life he’s been there for it. Uh, so the fact that he is clearly reaching end of line, uh, EOL, I, uh, or EOF even, um, it’s, it, it it’s, there’s a whole process for me, but, but mental health wise, I’m growing out of beard. Which I feel is indicative of my stability. Like I am able to grow a beard. Yeah. Like cuz when, when I’m manic I [00:10:00] tend to shave I don’t know why I just like get out the Clippers and I just do all of my head and everything, but the, the listeners can’t see this, but you guys have to say this salt and pepper beard I have going is looking pretty good. [00:10:15] Jeff: really? [00:10:16] Brett: I have homemade cocoa butter and bees wax beard ball in it. It’s shiny. It’s it’s got a lot of gray in it and I, I love the gray anyway. Anyway, Jeff, how are you? [00:10:30] Jeff: Also bearded. Um, I’m doing pretty good. I had the first time ever, I, since I think I’ve been taking Citraline for like two years and for the first time ever, I went without for a couple days, cuz I ran out on a weekend and just hadn’t properly. Sometimes it gets refilled on its own and you get used to it. [00:10:50] But anyway, and on day two, I was like, I spent the whole day just feeling so off and so like dizzy. And so just kind of like just, just, [00:11:00] I just did not feel good. And I realized like, oh, it’s been two days and I’ve always you that’s one that you’re told, like you don’t, you don’t just stop that one. Um, and so I feel like it must have been the beginning of what is the reason that you don’t stop it. [00:11:12] So got, got it going again in time, but that was a, it was kind of like humbling, you know, to realize. [00:11:19] Brett: Been there recently running [00:11:21] Jeff: Yeah, you were there. I know this was you, I think like last week or something, but, uh, and, uh, and now I’m in this situation of trying to do the math for my meds to make sure that like, say my trip to Kenya goes from two and a half weeks to four, cuz something goes wrong. [00:11:35] Like wanna make sure I got what I need so anyway, just kind of doing math and stuff, but good. Pretty, pretty much, uh, just good. Otherwise good. [00:11:44] Organize This [00:11:44] Jeff: Now I wanna talk about this personal organizer situation because Matt, Christina, why don’t you set it up for us a little more? Like what, whatever you’re you’re comfortable saying, like what is it that led you to get one? [00:11:56] Was it hard to get one? And what’s it like now that you have one. [00:11:59] Christina: [00:12:00] Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, she’s, she’s not even, I would say it’s kind of probably, I don’t know. We can call her personal organizer though. That’s kind of the role she’s playing, but we needed like, like deep cleaning of our apartment. And my office has been just like filled with boxes of stuff that I’ve bought that I haven’t opened and like all kinds of other things that have just kind of like been accumulating and. [00:12:19] It’s just kind of been this, this, um, process where I’ve been overwhelmed. I’ve like wanted to be able to kind of get in and like get everything cleaned and organized and whatnot. But I just, it’s been, uh, mentally like overwhelming for me. Like I haven’t been able to, to do it. And, and just even the thought of doing it has been really overwhelming. [00:12:36] And so we just, we found someone on, um, TaskRabbit and now we’re, we’re paying for her off TaskRabbit through, through, um, Venmo because, you know, fuck those fees and stuff. Um, and she’s been really, really good. She’s come in a, a few times already. She’s already made a lot of progress and, um, I’m just like I, at first was really like uncomfortable and kind of like freaked out by the fact of like somebody seeing [00:13:00] like, kind of like my office, the state it is as it is and other stuff. [00:13:03] And like, I was like, I don’t know how I feel about someone going through my stuff and all of that. And I just kind of was like, you know what, fuck it. Like. This isn’t gonna get done unless I have someone helping and, and frankly doing a lot of the work, which, which is in this case, just kind of like, you know, organizing things and, and, um, and then I can kind of, you know, make my go through piles and, and figure out what I wanna keep and get rid of and stuff like that. [00:13:27] But, uh, but it’s, it, it was one of those things that like, it was difficult at first to kind of get over that like mental hump of letting someone in my space, but it got to the point that it was so like bad that I was just like, actually I don’t fucking care. I just need this done. And now I feel so much better. [00:13:45] Jeff: Mm. And, and how about, what does it feel like now compared to what you expected? What does it feel like to have that person in a room? Just kind of moving around, doing deep, cleaning, whatever, [00:13:56] Christina: really nice. And, um, I’ve also, I haven’t been around for a [00:14:00] ton of it. Grant has been here. I’ve like, I was actually, it wasn’t even planned, but I was like in the office, uh, yesterday, uh, recording something. And so I, you know, wasn’t even there for that part of it. Some of the other times, like it, it’s kind of up to me with how I wanna, how much I wanna directly kind of engage with this. [00:14:16] I think as, as it goes on, I’ll be engaging with her more, but I’m, I’m at least for kind of the first pass of things. I’m just kind of letting her do, like get it to a certain state where I can then be helpful if that makes sense. [00:14:28] Jeff: totally. That’s awesome. That’s really awesome. I, I, uh, was finally talked into getting, uh, actually like a team of organizers. Like I, in our basement, we have various rooms that are not used and stuff just gets kind of stuffed in there over the years. And I keep a lot of what, uh, what I’ve sort of generated or collected over the years. [00:14:50] I like kind of jokingly say I’m a high functioning hoarder, which is actually Adam Savage’s bit, but it’s a. A bit. Um, and, uh, and, but [00:15:00] finally got to the point where I’m like, I, I do not wanna spend time on this. Like I’ve, I’ve gone through things over the years and purged things, but it kind of all just like ends up sort of gathering up again. [00:15:11] But I was just embarrassed to have somebody come in, but then I, like, my wife found a couple of options, sent me the options and we picked this group, this organization, and three women came, uh, and just like went down into the basement for a day and then another day. And they just like made sense of things and, and, and made their own sense of things. [00:15:31] I wasn’t like, Hey, this should be here and make sure to look for this, like what was very hands off? And it felt amazing. Like I was so stressed before they came in and, and man, it felt amazing to have someone else dealing with it. And in the end they were like, maybe there’s just say this to make you feel good. [00:15:46] But they’re like, this has been really fun. You have really cool stuff. I’m like, oh, thanks. Cuz generally I just look at that stuff and think I am the worst person in the world. I loved it. [00:15:55] Brett: them, did you let them into your office? Do you have like an area that you consider, [00:16:00] like your sanctum, like this is, this is myself personified in a room and it feels very invasive to let anyone in it. [00:16:11] Jeff: there’s just not anything they could do in here. Like I have some piles and stuff like, but mostly it’s like, it’s a small room and it’s just kind of got the essentials in it. So I wouldn’t feel that way, but they did that. They, we actually had them go into my workshop, which is very much like a place that only I go and it was just gotten really out of control and they did that too. [00:16:32] It was just like, they just handled it and they had fun doing it. And like, it was just the most amazing feeling. And it really, um, it did, it did wonders to take away some of the shame or some of the like, ah, don’t go in there kind of feelings [00:16:46] Brett: that’s the way I feel about my office and my bedroom. Like the rest of the house, please come in, help me out, organize this stuff for me. But my office and my bedroom are very much, [00:17:00] they feel like extensions of my brain and they’re messy and they’re chaotic. And they are like, I can find everything most of the time, if it’s within the last year, I can figure out where it was. [00:17:15] Um, but it feels like a real, a very personal, very intimate thing to let anyone else. I don’t even let, I don’t even let L into my office, like. Feels like such an invasion to me. And it could like, I need it. I need to get this place organized. I feel like my brain would work better if I got this shit under control, but you can’t see off to the left and right of the camera here, but there are shelves that I have just Contin. [00:17:50] I consider them like archival storage and, and it’s not, it’s not horrible. Like, I, I could show it to you. You’d be like, that’s not so bad, [00:18:00] but it does. It does affect my brain. And I do think I could benefit if I was willing to let someone in. [00:18:06] Jeff: Mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah, I recommend it. [00:18:10] Christina: Yeah, I do too. And, and I think that like, it’s, it’s hard to like let people in and do it, but I don’t know, this was kind of like my take on it. I, I kind of don’t care at this point, what someone thinks of my mess and my other stuff, like I would obviously would not want, like, if it was something that I knew and interacted with all the time and, and not to be different. [00:18:30] Right. But I, I, I kind of got, I kind of don’t care. It’s like, I, I need the help. And I’m sure that they’ve seen worse and that they haven’t seen worse. Well, now they have like a story to tell for the future, you know? [00:18:43] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:44] Brett: tale. [00:18:45] Jeff: Or making memories. Yeah. And also, like I found, I don’t know if this was true for you, Christina, but I found it was one of those things that you, that I sort of worried about, worried about worried about. And the second it got started, I felt fine. Like, it was like [00:19:00] the second they got in and started doing work and I left the room. [00:19:03] I felt fine. And then just felt fine. I felt great. So yeah. Yeah. I recommend it. [00:19:12] Brett: Just as an aside, just as an aside, somebody tweeted yesterday. I, I tweeted about like how it’s great living when you have executive function disorder. It’s great living with someone else who has executive function disorder, because there’s just so much forgiveness and the relationship and someone tweeted me back that, uh, it was great to have me out there as someone that could hold up for their daughter to say, look, this guy also has executive function disorder and, and he creates a lot of cool stuff. [00:19:45] And that was, it was very heartwarming. [00:19:48] Christina: Aw, that’s really nice. [00:19:50] Brett: I for, for once I’m not the cautionary tale [00:19:54] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right. [00:19:58] Brett: should we do a, should we [00:20:00] do a sponsor break? [00:20:01] Christina: Uh, [00:20:02] Brett: will, uh, Christina always does the Zac reads. You want me to do the Zac read [00:20:09] Christina: I [00:20:09] Brett: you got it? [00:20:10] Christina: I can do it. Um, what are you feeling? [00:20:13] Brett: I, I feel like you are the [00:20:16] Christina: the Z doc person. All right. [00:20:18] Brett: reads. [00:20:18] Jeff: to that. yeah. [00:20:18] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:20:18] Christina: Well, I am, I am a long time. Z doc user, so finding in booking a doctor who’s right for you doesn’t need to be a terrible experience. Will they take your insurance? Will they understand your needs or be available when you can see them? [00:20:30] Well with Zoc the answer can be a refreshingly PainFREE yes. Zocdoc is a free app that shows you Dr. Who are patient reviewed, take your insurance and are available when you need them. So you can read up on local doctors, you can get verified patient reviews, and you can see what other real humans had to say about their visit. [00:20:49] So when you walk into the doctor’s office, you’re set up to see someone in your network who gets you go to doc, doc.com, choose a time slot. And whether you wanna see a doctor in person or do a video [00:21:00] visit, and just like that, you’re booked, you can find the doctor that’s right for you and book an appointment that works for your schedule every month. [00:21:07] Millions of people use Zoc and I’m one of them. It’s my go-to basically anytime I need to find a new doctor and, uh, I’ve, I’ve used it in, you know, three different cities. Um, I don’t even know at this point, how many different insurance plans it’s really, really good. I highly recommend it. You can go to zoc.com/ Overtired and download the Zoc app for free. [00:21:31] Then you can start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours, which is great. So that’s, Zoc do c.com/ Overtired zoc.com/ Overtired. [00:21:46] Brett: Nice read. How do you guys feel about doing ad blocks? Where we just put all the ad reads together? [00:21:53] Christina: I mean, let’s do it. [00:21:54] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:21:54] Brett: I haven’t heard any complaints, so I, I would like to take this opportunity [00:22:00] then to tell you about text expander, um, get your team communicating faster so they can focus on what’s most important with text expander. [00:22:09] Your team’s knowledge is at their fingertips. Get your whole team on the same page by getting information out of silos and into the hands of everyone that needs to use it. You can share your team’s knowledge across departments. So your team is sending a unified message to your customers and isn’t spending time reinventing the wheel. [00:22:29] Here’s how it works. First. You store it, you keep your company’s most used emails, phrases, messaging, URLs, and more right within text expander. Then you can share it, get your whole team access to all the content they need to use every day. And then you expand it. Deploy the content you need with just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps you use. [00:22:50] It’s that easy text expanders available on Mac windows, Chrome, iPhone, and iPad and Overtired listeners. Get [00:23:00] 20% off their first year. Just visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander as always a big thanks to smile. [00:23:10] Jeff: Hmm, smile everybody. [00:23:12] Christina: Smile. Thank you. Smile. And Texas fan is the best as we talk about many times on gratitude or we’ve mentioned over [00:23:20] Brett: Like tech expander also sponsors my blog and we do, I have a purchase order every year. Uh, and you know, there’s no guarantee it will continue, but for maybe five years now, they have bought one ad a a month on my blog and have consistently, so it, it forces me to continue writing my blog because otherwise my blog becomes just a series of text expander ads. [00:23:52] Christina: the years when they do their spots. So, yeah. Right. [00:23:53] Brett: like, I am 100%. Like if someone wanted to call me a text, expander, chill, I’d be like, yeah, It’s it’s an [00:24:00] amazing app. And, and they, they pay good money for me to talk about them. Um, and I have no qualms with doing it, but if my blog were to get to the point where it was like three text expender ads in a row, and there was no other content in between on the main page, then I would feel bad. [00:24:18] So it, it prompts me to continue. [00:24:22] Christina: I like. [00:24:23] Astronaut Competency [00:24:23] Jeff: I love it. Um, I have a story to tell, so my dad was in town. He lives in Iowa and he collects and, and restores vintage speakers. I, and by that, I don’t just mean like boxy speakers. I mean, these are electrostatic speakers. They’re crazy. They can be sometimes like six feet high and just like an inch thick. [00:24:43] They’re like the craziest thing. And they sound so freaking good. And there are so many weird variations of them. And so he found, uh, this set of speakers in Stillwater, Minnesota, which is about 45 minutes, uh, away from Minneapolis. And he came all the way from Iowa. [00:25:00] To hang out with me. Sure. But also to get these speakers. [00:25:04] So I went with him cause I loved getting stuff off of Facebook marketplace, actually. Like I’ve almost, I’ve had almost like only positive experiences, especially if it’s like something that is sort of a specialty year into like a kind of tool or like in this case, weird speakers. And so we got to this guy’s place and he, um, he had his tractor all ready to move the speakers from the, uh, basement to the upstairs drive. [00:25:29] He was about 83 years old. Um, he was moving real slow and. We were just kind of getting to know him a little bit before we went down and checked out the speakers and it turned out that like he just kind of dropped that he had been an engineer on the Apollo, um, Moom program and that he had designed the, um, he was one of the people designing the stabilization stabilization mechanisms in the command module, um, and actually would train astronauts in how to use it before they would [00:26:00] go to the Moom and. [00:26:03] I, you know, those kind of moments don’t happen that much. Right. But they happen enough. And when they do, I realize that my brain goes into this desperate, oh my God, all this knowledge is gonna be lost mode, even as I’m just calmly and coolly, kind of having a conversation. Right. Like I know I can’t get all that knowledge. [00:26:22] That’s gonna be lost before he goes, I’ll never see him again. But like, it is so striking. It just like, it just washes over me. As soon as I recognize someone holds some piece of, of kind of obscure history like that. Right. And it’s so striking how so many people. Whose names we will never hear or read, hold some piece of, of history. [00:26:45] I tried to get something out of him. I used, I have kind of a sort of journalistic technique, which is like, so he had to go train astronauts. Right. And astronauts are obviously very, very competent people, right? Like they’ve gone through so many filters to get [00:27:00] to the point where they’re allowed to go to the Moom. [00:27:02] It’s not like Elon Musk who can just go based on fucking money alone. Like these, these astronauts, like really, really brought a lot to the table. And, uh, [00:27:12] Christina: and like literally put their life at risk, right? Like, like, and not a small way. [00:27:15] Jeff: yeah. I mean, they’re driving a thing that’s like less powerful than like, I don’t even know what anymore. It’s not even not enough to say less powerful than my phone. [00:27:23] It’s like way less powerful than my phone, this computer that got them to space. Right. But anyway, um, what I tried first was like, The kind of, I call it the, these fucking guys huh. Approach where I’m like, okay. So I got, I got a question for you. Like you’re down there training the astronauts and, and everybody knows the astronauts and everybody, you know, loves the astronaut astronauts are so smart, you know, but you’re training them. [00:27:47] Right? Like, was there anything that they just weren’t good at getting, and, and he looked at me and like saw right through me. And he is like, uh, no, they were astronauts . And I was like, I was talking about [00:28:00] dad later. I was like, that technique is called the, these fucking guys. Huh? Technique, you know, just waiting for him to be like, well, yeah, buzz Aldrin, man, that guy, I don’t know how he passed second grade, but didn’t happen. [00:28:11] I’m not looking for shit talking exactly. Right. Like, it’s a story that’s been told and told and told I want something [00:28:17] Christina: Right. [00:28:18] Jeff: uh, but my dad was able to talk to him more on, on technical terms. He actually had questions about the stabilizing mechanism, turns out that he’s been sitting on for a while. Um, but it was just this like really incredible thing. [00:28:29] And then he was also selling all his like hand radio stuff. And then he started talking about how he was really into computers in the early days and that he owned an Aire computer that he no longer that he no longer owns, but, and I was like, well, wait, he’s like, I have a bunch of computer stuff that I haven’t brought up for the sale yet. [00:28:45] I was like, wait, like, like what? And he’s like, well, some Dells, I was like, damnit, how did we get from ter to Dell’s? I really thought, you know, for just a minute, I thought like I had hit the jackpot, you know, [00:28:56] Christina: And he is just like, no, actually, like I have some really good shit, [00:29:00] but also some Dells, you know, as one does. [00:29:02] Jeff: then he listed the models. I’m like, no, I don’t. We’re good. I don’t need to know what model Dell you [00:29:08] Brett: 3 86 DX [00:29:10] Jeff: Yeah. but he [00:29:11] Brett: sure it’s AgeWell [00:29:12] Jeff: he also had a sweet laser disc player and about a hundred laser discs. Oh man. Which is pretty exciting. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, that was super exciting. And it was cool. [00:29:23] Cause um, he had written out the schematics for this speaker. My dad picked up and this is cool to go through these schematics and be like, oh, this guy wrote schematics for the command module. The, you know, this is cool. Anyway, I, I tell this story just to say how much I love those little moments and how much I almost achingly realize. [00:29:41] Even with more, much more modern history, even modern history of our own kind of interests. Right. And the, the kind of like tap culture, we live in whatever, like how many, how many people there are that own, just a piece of that history. And that it’s really despite that, how we document stuff much better. [00:29:58] Now there’s so much that’s [00:30:00] in between, uh, the stories we know that, that we’ll never know, cuz that person is never gonna tell somebody and then they’re gonna be gone. So nice. Not trying to depress you. [00:30:12] Brett: much do you think you could get for an Oscar computer these days? [00:30:17] Jeff: oh Lord. I don’t know. Am I supposed to look it up? Is that part of the test? [00:30:21] Brett: don’t know. I, I [00:30:22] Jeff: really have internet in space. [00:30:24] Brett: sold one for basically the equivalent of a gram of heroin. Um, [00:30:29] Christina: okay. What, okay. What, what, what is, and same, and also what is an Oscar [00:30:33] Brett: Oscar was one of the early suitcase computers where the front of it came off and it was a keyboard with a small monochrome green screen had a 300 bod coupler modem built into it. And a floppy disc drive that I think was five and a half, maybe seven. Uh, I can’t remember what F floppies it took, but it was, it was an early and I had an at [00:31:00] and T machine too. [00:31:01] That was just another suitcase computer that I picked up at garage sales. And I’m pretty sure they would be more valuable today than they were 20 years ago, but I let them both go. For drugs. And, uh, I, I could have started, uh, a computer museum at some point. [00:31:23] Jeff: That’s true. Look what you did and now you [00:31:25] I recently, uh, I was recently given a TRS 80 portable computer. [00:31:30] Christina: Oh, shit. Those are [00:31:31] Jeff: they called it the trash 80. Um, and, and it came from a, a friend who had been a reporter at the star Tribune back in the eighties and had, had to take it on some, on a south Pacific trip. [00:31:44] Um, and [00:31:45] Christina: model 100, right? [00:31:46] Jeff: yeah, the one that’s. Yeah, it’s just got like a screen. That’s about yay. Big. [00:31:50] Brett: yeah. [00:31:51] Christina: the, the model 100 is like, this is before my time, but it is so cool. Looking like people are making modern versions of it. [00:31:57] Brett: The first computer program I ever [00:32:00] wrote was on a trash ad with one of those little screens. Yeah. [00:32:03] Jeff: well. One of the things he gave me was all of the paperwork that the start Tribune put together for him on how to connect, uh, to the, to the phone and like, whatever. But it says at the top trash 80 instructions which is pretty awesome, but he had it, it’s not there anymore, but he had programmed in like a star wars game. [00:32:21] I’m sorry. It’s space, invader game, star wars game it’s space’s game. Uh, which I’m sure was like 4,000 lines of basic. Um, but it’s my goal to do that. Maybe I’ll take that on the plane with me and [00:32:32] Brett: space invaders written in logo. [00:32:35] Christina: Oh, shit. That’d be so cool. Yeah. Um, uh, somebody created, so like the, the framework laptop that I’ve talked about a couple of times, um, the, they, somebody like has an open source project where they’ve created like a frame deck that basically is highly inspired by the, the model 100 trash 80 and, and, uh, it’s, it’s really, really, really beautiful. [00:32:54] I’m gonna, um, put it in, uh, our, um, chat [00:33:00] and, uh, and, and we can see it. It’s really good. [00:33:02] Jeff: I was thinking about the framework because one of the, you know, the sky was selling a bunch of hand radio stuff. And one of the things that electronics nerds back in the like sixties would do is buy Hef kits stuff, which were these just kits that would make anything from like a ham radio Transer to a color TV. [00:33:20] My uncle made a color TV, uh, out of a kit. And what was so incredible is to look at, he had ton of these that he had made the quality was so incredible. Like the casing was so, so solid. And, you know, and it’s just maybe think like, there isn’t much like that today, but the framework computer kind of makes me think of that. [00:33:37] Like [00:33:37] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, I totally, I totally agree. Like it it’s, it’s, uh, I mean, you know, it’s definitely like a mass produced thing, but it is definitely like I, and I’ve, I’ve had like numbers of conversations with people on their team and stuff and, and they very much care about what they’re doing, which is cool. And I’m, I’m glad that like a year later, like I’m still very happy with it and, and I’m glad that they are, are still, you know, checking along and seem to be being successful, which, [00:34:00] um, was not a, a. [00:34:02] At all. So, you know, because it’s, it’s a commodity space and they’re doing something that’s very different from what other people are doing. [00:34:10] Jeff: And they’re kind of the first to really get something like that off the ground [00:34:14] Christina: yeah, honestly, yes, honestly. Yes, because like, what was shocking to me and we don’t need to talk about this anymore, but like, was that what I got was, so was basically exactly what was promised to me, which never happens with these sorts of things. And, um, I’m looking forward to when the, um, main boards for the 12th gen Intel processors are available this summer. [00:34:38] I’m gonna buy one of those and put in my laptop and then I’m gonna take the 11th gen main board that I have. And, and, you know, do some sort of DIY thing with it because like, you know, like they’re really encouraging that, which is really cool, [00:34:50] Jeff: Yeah, people are doing such cool stuff. It’s like it’s own, it’s like become its own weird version of the raspberry pie. [00:34:56] Christina: kind of, kind of just much more expensive. [00:34:58] Jeff: Way more expensive. Yeah. [00:35:00] That’s cool though. that’s awesome. Um, okay. I, I, I have another topic in here. [00:35:06] Dotfile Love Letters [00:35:06] Jeff: I have a couple topics for today. Uh, and I think this next one will be quick and the one after that will be longer. [00:35:12] Okay. So I want to talk about, I, I just, something happened to me just before we were recording and I thought was so sweet. Um, a friend of mine, my friend a was turning me on to this, um, music library, uh, like CLI called beats, um, B E E T S. And it was something I was just looking for something like that for a while. [00:35:36] And, and, uh, so we were going back and forth about it and I was kind of looking at it and playing with it. And then he said, you want me to send you my config file? And I thought that is such a developer love language. Like, cuz I just felt touched . I was like, yes, I would like to see your config file. exactly dot files is left letters. I remember that [00:36:00] happening with you Brett, at one point you shared some things and I’m like, well, this just feels special. [00:36:04] Brett: Yeah, like I have a, my dot files. Repo is private. Um, like I keep it on my son analogy on a, in a get repo on my son analogy instead of publishing it to GitHub because man dot files can be very personal. [00:36:19] Christina: yeah, I was [00:36:19] Brett: kinda like letting someone into organize my office. [00:36:22] Christina: no, I was gonna say mine are private too. And I’ve, I’ve like, I I’ve gone back and forth about this because there’s a part of me that like, would like to make. At least what I have kind of open at least maybe like parts of it, then there are other parts I’m like, I really, exactly would be like someone reading through. [00:36:39] Yeah. It’s like someone going through your, your, your office. It is exactly like that. The difference is is that if you have it on GitHub and like, mine is just in a private GitHub repo, but like you could basically have like, you know, thousands of people driving by and like looking at, and, and silently judging you versus just the person that you pay to do a service who you never have to interact with again, after [00:37:00] that, that is over, you know? [00:37:01] Jeff: like that. Yeah, [00:37:02] Brett: Or, or there could be thousands of people benefiting [00:37:05] Christina: Right. That’s the problem. [00:37:07] Brett: but yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s that line of like, what is, what’s gonna get me judged versus what’s gonna actually help somebody. And then in a lot of cases, I feel like. There is somebody out there less experience than me who could benefit from what I figured out, but I haven’t figured out so much that I feel comfortable with them taking my lead. [00:37:31] Christina: Right. Yeah. So, so it’s interesting you say that, cuz cuz actually both of these things are interesting and I love the whole idea of like these things as being like love letters. So it’s um, it’s maintainer month, uh, this month, um, which, uh, is a GitHub thing, but, but it’s not just GitHub. We, I think are like the, the chief sponsors, which is basically kind of like dedicated towards, um, talking about and uplifting and, and like celebrating, you know, people who maintain open source projects. [00:37:56] And um, we had a summit of this week, um, for, [00:38:00] um, it was a, a private thing for, um, some of the larger maintainers in, in the ecosystem. And I met like people who are doing these amazing things and like people that I’m, I was like totally fangirling because I was like, oh my God, I, I love your project and, and what you’re working on and things like that. [00:38:15] And I, I was, so I’ve been thinking a lot about exactly what you just said, which is like, Where that line is between, I know more than a beginner and a newbie, and I wanna help them out, but I don’t know so much that I feel like, you know, they might not get in, in trouble based on following what I’m doing. [00:38:36] And, and I think that that’s like a common problem. I think with getting contributors to open source projects is, is kind of at that line. And, and I, and I sometimes feel like, I think that we all judge ourselves maybe a little bit too much and, and, and think like, it’s gotta be perfect and I’ve gotta be a super expert before I can let anybody take a look at it when no, you know, you, you can, as long as you are being accurate with what you’re [00:39:00] describing, you know, okay. [00:39:02] Worst case someone might, you know, get stuck and it might not be for them, but like, okay, cool. They can move on and find something else. But best case you might find somebody who is really helped by it. And it leads them to doing other stuff or, you know, even better contributing to, to what you’re doing and helping you go further. [00:39:19] Brett: uh, so like marked, um, my app marked I will never open source. Uh, that code is. Only I could ever understand that code. And I really think it would do more harm than good for any developer to see it, uh, doing, which is all written in Ruby has been refactored many times over the years, but it’s actually, you could learn a lot. [00:39:49] If you were new to intermediate in Ruby, you could pick up a lot of stuff from doing, because I have, I have learned so much about Ruby [00:40:00] just over the years and, and learned from other people and, and doing I’m happy to open source and it is open source. Like anyone can dig into it, but bunch, uh, which is the most recent Coco app I’ve developed. [00:40:16] Uh, it’s still an objective C, which dates it a little bit. But I actually put years of what I learned from fucking up marked. Uh, I put into coding, do a bunch from scratch and I’m tempted to open source it because I’m not, I’m not nearly as embarrassed by it as I am of mark. [00:40:42] Christina: Yeah. And, and I think what would be cool if you did that? Cuz because I totally agree with you. Like I, this is something that I like. I have ideological differences with some people who are really active in an open source. I do not believe that everything should be open source. Um, I think that freedom goes both ways and you can choose to not have something there. [00:40:59] Uh, but I was, I [00:41:00] was actually on the one password podcast a couple weeks ago. Uh, and this topic kind of came up, which is like, how can like close source, you know, companies or developers or what not still contribute. And I think what you kind of laid out is, is, is that right? Like for you is not even so much about being embarrassed. [00:41:15] Cuz I think that you could get around that. It’s about the fact that like the code for, for marked isn’t in a good enough place for it to be useful. Like you said, it could be actively harmful and other people aren’t going to understand it. And I think the problem that we see a lot of times with people with, with, you know, Sometimes with, especially drive that’s they kind of call it like drive by open sourcing. [00:41:35] They throw it over the wall, but they don’t do anything with it. And I’m of the opinion, like, look, you can do whatever you wanna do. And if you wanna make everything, you, you do open, that’s completely fine. And like, you don’t owe anyone, anything. I get that. But I feel like if you, like, for me anyway, it feels like if I’m making something open source, I’m putting, especially if it’s something like an app that, you know, like runs and it’s not just like maybe like a, [00:42:00] a personal project that you’re just kinda like, look, if you wanna look at it fine. [00:42:03] But, but you know, in this case, like it’s, it’s something that people could actually get use out of. Um, I think that you, I think that you kind of have that obligation a little bit to, you know, have it in, in a good state so that other people can learn from it. And, and that, you know, is that takes time and that takes effort. [00:42:20] And I, and, and you’ve gotta think about that. And so, but I, I also have to say like, If you could take the things you’ve learned with marked and, and you’ve done it with bunch also, just the fact that bunch, I think is one of those apps more than marked that you could really have other people hacking on and helping with, and like doing things contributing back in a way that could also be fulfilling for you as well. [00:42:43] Jeff: mm-hmm [00:42:43] Brett: Yeah. Um, speaking of developer love letters though, of, of would you call it developer, love languages? I, uh, I regularly interact with other independent developers and there’s this, [00:43:00] like, you don’t give your source code away for free. Uh it’s by, you know, in a non open source app, a closed source app, you don’t just give away source code. [00:43:12] And like, I worked with the guys from Ulysses years back and I just, I wanted to replicate something they were doing with RTF code and I gave them thousands of dollars for what amounted to maybe like four pages of code. Um, and, and I learned my lesson that. Generally I can figure shit out on my own, but in my interaction with other indie developers, I have found a lot of people that are like, oh yeah, I know exactly how to do that. [00:43:49] Here’s the sec section of the code from my application, half the function calls in it won’t work for you because they call other proprietary functions of my own. [00:44:00] But this is, you can see from this, how this thing would work. And it has been so helpful to me, uh, like Daniel J cut from red sweater, uh, Craig Scott from I thoughts, uh, or to wear like those people have shared code with me, uh, um, uh, rich from bare bones. Like these people have given me code that has changed the way I do things. And it is like that kind of sharing that is very much a love language. Like that is like, I recognize you as someone in the vein of what I’m doing. Like we have similar goals and I’m going to share with you my private code. And that absolutely feels like a very loving gesture to me. [00:44:51] Christina: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s actually amazing. And, and, and that’s so interesting, right? That like, you know, again, like, I guess how it differs. It’s like, okay, I see [00:45:00] you. And I’m going to do this solid and know that I won’t have to support any of it or whatever, but, but just show you like, okay, this, this, this is where you wanna look and try this out. [00:45:09] And, and this, this is probably gonna do what you needed to do. That’s awesome. [00:45:12] Brett: And I’ve, I’ve returned the favor, like [00:45:14] Christina: Oh, [00:45:15] Brett: times Andreas Hegenberger guy who does better touch tool. Like we’ve traded quite a bit of code. Um, especially as I worked on bunch and wanted it to do some of the things that better touch tool does. And yeah, man, those relationships, they feel very, they feel deep to [00:45:34] Christina: Yeah. I, I, I think that they’re definitely deep. And I think that, that, like that says a lot about you when you have so many people who, and, and, and, uh, like who both you share things with, but who are willing to share with you. And it has to feel awesome as a dev, like if, if a w respect is willing to give you [00:45:49] Brett: You have no idea, like how big a deal that is to me to have to have someone that, like, when I first started using a Mac, it [00:46:00] was the indie community that. Made me realize I was in the right place. And, and I immediately developed heroes, you know, from, uh, who made text mate, [00:46:12] Christina: uh, oh, macro mate. So Alan oar. [00:46:14] Brett: Ellen agar, a AARD agar, [00:46:18] Christina: I don’t know, [00:46:20] Brett: agar, a guard it’s agar, Ellen agar to, to an odd guard, to, to rich, to Daniel JK. [00:46:27] Like these are my early heroes, uh, like back in like the year 2000 and, uh, and to be exchanging code with them these days, it it’s a huge deal to me. It means so much. [00:46:42] Jeff: kind of gets back to that piece of that, that bit about kind of pieces of history people hold, right. I mean, especially when you think about the the like fields of, uh, video game archeology and, and other kinds of like digital and code based archeology, like the idea that, you know, you hold [00:47:00] some piece of some moment in time in that code and they hold some piece of some moment in time. [00:47:06] It’s so interesting. Kind of fits both those topics. [00:47:09] Christina: does. It does. And it makes me once again, just like remind myself of like set up, like I’m gonna like, uh, set up a recurring, I give to them annually, but I think I’m gonna set up a recurring, like monthly donation to the internet archive because the work that they do is so important. And I do feel strongly, like, I, I would hope at some point, even if you’re terribly embarrassed by like the source code for, you know, um, for, for marked that, like, if, you know, you were, if you decided like I’m not gonna do anything with this or whatever, or let’s say like, you have it, like in your will or something, you’re like, okay, I’ll, I’ll put, I’ll put this on. [00:47:40] You know, whether it’s, whether it’s compiled or UN compiled or whatever, I’ll put it on the internet archive so that people in, in the future could. Do something with it and get it running again and, and keep like the history of, of what it was around. Because when we discover things like when, when 3d movie maker was, was recently like, [00:48:00] like the code was, was open sourced and the community got it. [00:48:03] Building and windows, modern versions of windows and, and like the fan community around that really rallied. And it came because a guy like tweeted, he was like, Microsoft won’t do this. And, and they did. And they even got like the, the rendering engine, which Microsoft had purchased. They even got the author of that to, to agree to, to MIT license. [00:48:20] It, like you have whole generations who missed certain things who then, because of bit rot and other stuff can’t experience it. But when you have people who are willing to also like, kind of find a way to archive some of that knowledge, cause some of it’ll obviously die, but I think whatever we can do to preserve that is really important. [00:48:39] Brett: Yeah. It’s like, there’s a short, there’s a short in, in the grand scheme of things. The life term of code is, is pretty short, like envi, uh, like notational velocity is open sourced. Uh, and I would estimate that within the next two OS updates, [00:49:00] uh, it won’t be able to compile anymore. Um, like the app might still work for a while, but compiling will become nearly impossible. [00:49:09] Like there’s a lifespan on these things, but yeah, open sourcing, open sourcing, dead code can still be beneficial. I think. [00:49:20] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that was what was sort of cool about the, the 3d movie maker thing, which I don’t know if either of you ever used, but like, that was, it was, it was like, this is what makes me in nineties. K. But it was an app that came out about the same time that windows 95 came out. And it basically let you create, like, it’s kinda like the metaverse like you create these 3d worlds, like you’d have a camera that you could control and you had like buildings and objects and people, and you could move things around and animate them. [00:49:45] And then you could export, you know, the movie file that would only play in this kind of weird esoteric format, but you could, you know, add soundtracks and stuff and basically create your own little movies. It was really cool. And for a lot of people, it was like the first for me, certainly it was the first time I’d ever. [00:49:58] Even had the idea of being like, [00:50:00] oh, I could create my own 3d worlds. Right. And, and you got a sense of like what animation was like and other stuff and, and the, the community around it, which has kind of remained, you know, it’s not massive, but like, there are still people who are dedicated to it. Um, some of the stuff they’ve done over the years, like is just really creative, but it, it doesn’t, you know, run like, like the old exc file. [00:50:20] Like you could do certain hacks, but it wouldn’t run under modern versions of windows. And so now, because the source code and the rendering engine, which was actually used in a lot of other games too, is on GitHub it’s archive. So it’s not like, you know, people are taking pull requests, but there’s been this like, you know, fork of it, like, uh, 3d mm. [00:50:38] Forever that, you know, people are, are now doing stuff too. And, and it’s just cool to see the fact that even if you’re not gonna be adding anything to it, right. Just the fact that people like. Kids today could see something they think is cool and they could run this and, and play with what their parents might have built, which is depressing to say, but you know what I mean? [00:50:58] Like, like you could, but [00:51:00] you could do that, which, you know, that’s one of the things that sort of scares me and makes me sad about mobile apps is that, well, the web too, but really mobile apps is that we don’t have archives of this stuff. And even if we did, we don’t have a way to be able to, you know, like play back and, and open and run those files, which is, which is kind of sad. [00:51:19] Jeff: Right. Like talking Carl, anybody, remember talking Carl, the, the iPhone app. [00:51:25] Christina: No, [00:51:26] Jeff: He was a little squishy, adorable red guy, and you would say something into the, uh, phone, and then he would say it back and hi voice and . And it was, and, but what’s funny about that is, I mean, just to take this kind of further in the same direction is that. [00:51:43] Talking Carl was an app that my friend Jonathan, um, turned beyond to that very much, um, reflected his humor. He’s dead. And I can’t play talking Carl and, and I feel like that’s some of the ways in which I feel I’m kind of thinking out loud here, but [00:52:00] one of the things that, um, all of this makes me think about is the way in which, you know, historians will have so much more data of course, and so much more to work with, but they’ll also have so many more tools with which to work with that so much more data. [00:52:17] Um, and, and so like that idea of just making sure that there’s some way in which, uh, an iPhone app from way back when can be resurrected, because it’s part of someone’s memory of someone, right? Like just interesting feels like we’re in, in so many ways, obviously we’re in like a transitional moment, like. [00:52:37] Epoch, but especially now, and that is just one of those little nuanced ways in which that’s the case. Hmm, wow. [00:52:43] Brett: I dug up an iPhone one, three, and fours, uh, just going through like should I needed to sell. And, uh, and I got them all to boot and realized there are apps on there that at one [00:53:00] point I considered essential and I loved, or, or considered really fun. And I love that that don’t exist and won’t run on any modern operating system. [00:53:11] They’re like little relics from the past that I can only run on these phones that are basically garage sale material at this point. [00:53:19] Grapptitude [00:53:19] Jeff: Uh, yeah. Interesting man. Well, this is a nice segue into gratitude. [00:53:26] Brett: Oh [00:53:27] Jeff: I mean, I would do talking Carl, but I already did it. somebody’s starting. I’m gonna look up talking Carl. [00:53:32] Christina: Okay. Um, I’ll start. So this is one that I actually, um, uh, discovered relatively recently, but I was using it this week because I was having to create some, uh, videos, uh, for, uh, for work for the, for the product team. And, um, that also included some, some gifs because yes, I say jifs for the, the social media stuff and, you know, converting like, uh, videos into, into jifs and making them not look terrible is not a super easy [00:54:00] process, but there is a command line tool called GSKi GI F SK. [00:54:05] And there’s also an open source Mac app that is, is a front end for the same thing. And it is so good and it is so useful. Both of them are, are just great. So that, that is, that is my gratitude, but I also wanna go a little bit further because the creator of the, the Mac app, um, his name is, uh, I’m not sure how you say his name. He’s uh, he’s a European, um, uh, CiDRA Sohu, uh, S I N D R E S O R H U S. And he is awesome. Like he’s I think the person who created like awesome lists and, um, so no pun intended there actually, but he’s also has a bunch of open source Mac apps, and then a few of them that he sells in the store and he’s got, uh, he’s like basically able to, to do. [00:54:49] Full-time open source stuff based on people being patrons of him and whatnot. And he just contributes a ton of stuff to the community and does really good things. But, um, but I really, really appreciate, [00:55:00] um, Ky, both the person who created kind of the library for it. And then, um, his front end, which he created because I was able to take like a really big, like, like not really big, like I had like a minute and a half video that I needed to cut down to like a 32nd G and I was able to do it with this app relatively easily. [00:55:19] And then also adjust like the quality, the size and the number frames per second, and then get in a, in a file size that would work on the various social media sites. And it looked really, really good. And that is typically like a lot of the converters, like some of the ones that, you know, like, like Jiffy and, and some of the other like, like, uh, there used to be one called like, I think like, like J bartender or something like that, like [00:55:41] Brett: uh, there’s one lively, uh, iPhone app lively does a pretty good [00:55:46] Christina: Yeah. And, and like, those things are, are cool, but, um, and, and for the iPhone, that might be like what your best option is. But if you are on a Mac like this particular library, it’s, it’s GI S is the, the URL. Um, they use [00:56:00] like a, a high quality, uh, G and coder based on, um, ping, qu, whatever that is. Oh, and, and, and the guy who wrote this is, is the image Optim guy. [00:56:09] Brett: Yep. Yep. [00:56:10] Christina: know, this is good shit. Right. And, and so it’s like, it’s just, it’s really good. The, in, in the past, the only person I saw who could create really high quality JS was my, was my friend Andrew Zuki, who works at Gizmoto. And what he would literally do would be, he would bring in the video file into Photoshop and go frame by [00:56:29] Brett: Oh, my God. [00:56:30] Christina: and then like create the GIF that way. [00:56:33] And it would look amazing and he had a whole workflow that he would do, but like now you could get probably really comparable results with GSKi. So shout out to shout out on this. Sorry, go on. [00:56:44] Brett: have you seen GIF Fox GI F F O X there that makes surprisingly small high quality gifs of screen recordings. Like it’s specifically for screen recordings, not for converting video to G[00:57:00] [00:57:00] Christina: Right. [00:57:01] Brett: yeah. [00:57:02] Christina: Yeah, J Fox is great. And also, um, the, the built in, um, kind of thing when, um, um, what is it? Um, um, clean shot, um, is really good too. Well, clean shot is just [00:57:13] Brett: I just make, okay. That’s my pick for the week. I’m changing my pick. We’re talking about clean shot. Okay. Are you done? [00:57:23] Christina: I’m done. Yeah. [00:57:24] Brett: Should I go? [00:57:25] Christina: Yeah. Please go. [00:57:25] Brett: Okay. My pick as previously mentioned is clean shot X and it is if you need a screen capture app for Mac OS, it is the bees knees. It does everything and it does it so elegantly and for everything from capturing, uh, uh, images, windows, entire desktops, uh, annotation movies, uh, sharing. [00:57:55] It has like a whole cloud platform built in. It does everything and it [00:58:00] just does it. Just so elegantly, like I am constantly amazed at how, how much I don’t have to think about using clean shot. Uh, it is 100% replaced any built in screenshoting tools for me. And it has surpassed any other screenshot tool I’ve ever used. [00:58:21] Clean shot is amazing. [00:58:24] Christina: Yeah, I, I wanna add a plus one to that. I’ve tried basically every screenshot type of utility ever, because for most of my career, regardless of what I’ve done, I’ve dealt with a lot of screenshots. Like I have a screenshot folder that I have like literally linked to, um, with default folder X that I can open it from any part of my system to the point that I have to like sync that every time I, I go on another computer, cuz I use my, my hot keys and it’s there and I used, um, what was it a, um, a cloud app for a really long time for sharing screenshots with people, but their pricing became honestly insulting. [00:58:59] And, and so [00:59:00] I stopped using, um, cloud app and I used, um, um, what is it, uh, was it dropper or well there’s dropper and there’s another one. Um, It’s also on set up. Um, it, it’s the one that that’s, uh, this a little more Indy that you can have self hosted if you want, like on, on a, um, like an AWS server, uh, what [00:59:18] Brett: I know what you’re talking about. I can’t remember the [00:59:20] Christina: uh, a drop share. [00:59:21] There we go. And in drop share, you can actually use it with, with them clean shot X, but I’ll be honest with you as much as I, I love drop share, and I love that developer and what he’s done, clean shot X just does everything. It does it really well. And it also replaced some features that remember, remember, sketch [00:59:37] Brett: Oh [00:59:38] Christina: and remember, remember, remember when sketch was good. [00:59:40] Remember when sketch was good before Evernote ruined it. [00:59:42] Brett: yes, [00:59:43] Christina: And, and it had features like you could take a screenshot, but it automatically a padding of a, of a desktop wallpaper behind it. Right. And then you could annotate and you could do all this stuff. Clean, clean shot does all of that. And it also does, if you wanna do with your own custom URL, like a, you know, shortener, you, you can, you [01:00:00] know, use their hosted service. [01:00:01] You could also host it yourself and have like custom landing pages, just like, um, cloud app. Like, it’s just, it’s amazing. [01:00:07] Brett: every feature you’ve ever preferred. Another screen capture utility [01:00:12] Christina: Yep. [01:00:14] Brett: clean shot has [01:00:14] Christina: Absolutely. And it’s, and it’s part of setup and the setup, um, subscribers get like, you know, like, like 10 gigabytes or something, um, of storage on their plan. [01:00:23] Brett: the full premium plan. [01:00:25] Christina: Yeah. I, I feel guilty because I would genuinely like to give like, and actually I might, I might figure out a way just to like give, give them more money because what they do is just so good. [01:00:36] Sorry, I, sorry. I didn’t mean to talk over your, your, your gratitude. [01:00:39] Brett: absolutely. That, that much appreciated. That was some valid insight. [01:00:46] Jeff: Um, mine is beats. I already talked about it. B E E T S. So here’s the thing. This is, this speaks to me, and it also speaks to my, my worst potential for procrastination. In this [01:01:00] addition, in this like initial sentence, the purpose of beats is to get your music collection right. Once. And for all, I read that and I’m like, yeah, that’s what I want once. [01:01:08] And for all, because I have never been super happy. I’ve always worked through iTunes honestly, and I’ve never been super happy with kind of how, um, how my iTunes libraries and the files inside of them age. And I. Love music so much and love the idea of having such like intense control over it. And this is a, um, this is a CLI that just works wonderfully. [01:01:30] There’s a huge community around it. There are a ton of plugins. So like if you host your music from, um, from Plex or you stream from Plex, it just plugin that makes sure it lets Plex know that, you know, Hey, there’s new stuff in here. There’s a ton of like gripability in it. That is just kind of incredible. [01:01:45] Um, you can go in and get your, your beats per minute if you need that. I mean, I don’t need it, but I want it. Um, and [01:01:52] Brett: like to know I have it. [01:01:53] Jeff: It’s all part of this thing. Like last week I talked about how I was using set list FM and I’ve I’ve since I think I’ve [01:02:00] now added like 220 shows or something to that. And I just like keep going. [01:02:04] And I’ve been so pleased, um, at having a list that I can sort of, I like there’s statistics. It can tell me how many times I saw Johnny Cash perform Folsom prison, blues live, which is anytime you’ve seen him. So that’s not that exciting, but like it’s, it’s ability to sort of slice and dice the shows that you’ve seen as long as there are set list. [01:02:24] There is so fun. And again, it’s one of those things that actually, they’re they’re little, um, memory torpedoes for me, you know, like looking at a show that I forgot and there were shows I totally forgot. I went to, but because I found a ticket stub or because I was in the neighborhood of that show as I added a different one, I remember it. [01:02:41] And that was really sweet for me. And it’s made me want to go deep with my music collection and that’s, that’s what beats is gonna do for me. I think too bad. I get paid by the hour. [01:02:51] Brett: Taps taps into not just the music love, but also the nostalgia of music. [01:02:56] Jeff: Totally. Totally. So, anyway, that’s super [01:03:00] fun. That’s my gratitude. This has been fun. You guys, we had a little super techy episode from space. [01:03:05] Brett: Yeah. I I’ve decided to title the episode dot file. Love letter. [01:03:11] Jeff: I like it. [01:03:11] Christina: I love that.love that. Yeah, no one would now I, now I think like if, if the whole economy and everything, wasn’t terrible, that like I could have kind of a decent startup idea, which would be like tender, but you match people with their dot files. [01:03:30] Jeff: Ooh, that’s awesome. [01:03:33] Brett: it. Artificial intelligence matching up people based on their, their, their [01:03:38] Jeff: it. [01:03:39] Brett: Unix command line preferences. [01:03:42] Christina: I mean, honestly, look, I think you could probably tell a lot about people’s compatibility that way to be completely honest. [01:03:47] Jeff: that’s right. That’s right. That’s. [01:03:48] Brett: I would be really curious to see if that, if that held true, like I would be, I would be curious to see who I was matched up with based on my doubt files. [01:03:57] Jeff: How [01:03:58] Christina: I mean, [01:03:58] Brett: I would like to meet that [01:04:00] person. [01:04:00] Jeff: You could do that though. You, there are enough dot files on GitHub [01:04:03] Christina: There are. I was gonna say, yeah, you have a whole, whole, whole things. That would be the thing too. Right. You have a ton of data that you could like mine from to do. Yeah. [01:04:12] Brett: interesting? Like so many people duplicate their dot files. Like I’ve seen so many dot file repos that are just [01:04:19] Jeff: Oh yeah. [01:04:20] Brett: of someone [01:04:21] Jeff: with no credit [01:04:22] Brett: It would be interest to have AI go through that and see what the differences are. Where did, what modifications did you make? What personalization did you add and who might you be compatible with based on what you decided to tweak? [01:04:38] That would be, that would be brilliant. Christina, [01:04:40] Jeff: about, so what if, what if the, um, title is like Tilda slash.config.love, or just Tilda slash.love, then you, you, you’re getting, [01:04:52] Brett: with it. [01:04:53] Jeff: you’re getting closer to indicating what you’re talking about. [01:04:56] Brett: dot. Um, [01:04:59] Jeff: Love dot [01:05:00] YAML. [01:05:01] Brett: just tilty slash.love. That’s gonna be that’s the episode title right [01:05:06] Jeff: Print it. [01:05:07] Brett: for anyone who started this episode. Wondering what the fuck that meant. This is where it came from. It all came down to this right here and you made it through the episode. [01:05:17] And now you understand now, now you get the joke, [01:05:19] Christina: And [01:05:20] Jeff: But none of you, none of you bookers are in space. All right. Get, get some space sleep. You guys. [01:05:25] Brett: get some sleep. [01:05:26] Christina: get some sleep.

Victor Agreda Jr. joins the gang to talk about mental health, Star Trek, graphic novels, and some favorite apps. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. New Relic combines 16 different monitoring products for IT. Get access to the whole New Relic platform and 100GB of data free, forever – no credit card required! Sign up at newrelic.com/overtired. Show Links Noom Fabulous Strange New Worlds Picard Habibi Sandman Paletro Things Raycast Setlist.fm Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript 288: To Multiverse or Not [00:00:00] Jeff: Welcome to overtired. Uh, I am one of many co-hosts uh, Jeff sevens. Gunzel also here with Christina Warren. Hi, Christina. [00:00:12] Christina: Hello. Welcome. I’m happy to be back. [00:00:15] Jeff: Good. Glad to have you back. Good. Glad you’re happy. Um, Brett, good to have you back as well. And uh, and Victor, a credit Jr. Let’s be careful to distinguish a wonderful guest. Welcome. [00:00:28] Victor: Thank you. Welcome. Hi. [00:00:32] Jeff: Hello? All those things. Well, we’ve all been podcasting without recording for the last like 30 minutes. Um, some good pre-show material. Good feeling warmed up everybody. [00:00:42] Christina: Yep. Dylan. [00:00:44] Jeff: Excellent. [00:00:44] Brett: so Christina was a little bit late. She missed like a lot of our pre-show conversation cause she had things going on, but remind me where you were last week, Christine. [00:00:54] Christina: I was in Atlanta at render ATL, which is a JavaScript conference, but it was also [00:01:00] like, frankly, it was one of the cooler tech events I’ve been to because, um, you know, most tech conferences, um, it’s like a bunch of white dudes or like white people in general. Yeah. Like me being white, I was like a minority. [00:01:13] It was, it was, uh, because, uh, it is the Atlanta tech community, but it was kind of created by them and not by like the white people in the suburbs of the Atlanta tech community. So it was, it was a bunch of, of, of, um, black and people of color and people who have like different backgrounds. Um, it was a lot of young people. [00:01:29] It was really, really, it was a really great event. It was really fun. [00:01:32] Brett: Nice. [00:01:33] Jeff: awesome. [00:01:34] Victor: Atlanta has a great tech scene, man. Oh my gosh. [00:01:37] Christina: They do they do, but what was interesting like this was, it took place downtown and a lot of the conferences, like I haven’t been to a conference that was downtown since 2008. Like most of them have been in the suburbs. Like they make you get a cop or something. And this was actually like downtown, which was really great. [00:01:55] Brett: Speaking of [00:01:56] Jeff: a wonderful, wonderful city. Go ahead bro. [00:01:59] Brett: Um, [00:02:00] so max stock is under pretty severe limitations this year, uh, because of their offering, uh, distance, socially distant seating to people, uh, which means they can only sell so many tickets and technically they are sold out already. Um, I am working, uh, I’m waiting. Uh, Mike is going to get back to me. [00:02:23] He’s processing, whatever refunds are waiting right now, uh, in any tickets to become available, he’s gonna, he’s gonna let me. Uh, invite, you know, specific people. We want Victor to come. Uh, [00:02:38] Victor: I’m okay with waiting in line, like a normal human being, as opposed to, you know, some big shot, uh, wheel or whatever the hell. Uh, but I will, I will say this at the very least, this would give me an excuse to send a robot in my stead, uh, and [00:02:51] Christina: yeah, you can have you get up. I was going to say you did the telepresence thing. That’d be [00:02:55] Victor: Right. Uh, there’s a bunch of open source, like robot dogs on the market. And [00:03:00] so, you know, maybe I’ll send like a fleet of spider robots to [00:03:04] Jeff: about this one? That’s out there. It looks like a, a, it looks like a, uh, oh, what’s the scooter. You ride two wheels. [00:03:12] Brett: uh, [00:03:12] Jeff: God, Joe blue. [00:03:13] Victor: Oh yeah, yeah. [00:03:14] Jeff: like a segway holds a stick on a phone. What’s the deal. Anybody got that? [00:03:19] Christina: I’ve seen that before. Um, we, we actually had one of those, uh, fricking Lance, because Lance would have, obviously to this, since you left off guy used to work with who’s a crazy, and he does these things and it’s, it’s, it’s very charming, but he had one of those at the Ted conference. And so he was in the office wa walking around, but he was at the Ted conference and then he was in our office on one of the segway things, controlling it, it was very bizarre that he would just like walk up to us. [00:03:44] Like he would like walked behind my desk and I’d be like, like really, really? [00:03:49] It [00:03:49] Brett: modern family did a whole bit on that were Phil was on one of those telepresence robots. It [00:03:54] Christina: Yeah, they did. And I don’t remember if ours was before or after. It was probably after, but it, but [00:04:00] it was around the same time. It was definitely, yeah, it was one of those things that was very funny. [00:04:03] Brett: For the record, max SOC does have a streaming. They, they, they will be live streaming and you can buy a streaming pass if you, uh, if you don’t feel like heading out to the outskirts of Chicago, um, I shouldn’t even say it’s the outskirts of Chicago. It’s like, I think 45 minutes outside of Chicago. Um, [00:04:21] Victor: thing is I want to go to Chicago. So if y’all want to go meet up in Chicago afterwards, I’m also down for that, you know, Sharday lives up there. [00:04:29] Christina: Yeah, actually, I was going to say, cause I’ve been, I needed to email Mike back and I never did because I’m terrible at email. And so I’m probably not gonna be able to go, although I would love to go, but Victor, if I’m down to go to Chicago and then watch remotely, and then if anybody wants to come to Chicago and like do a meet up or something, I’m totally game for that. [00:04:45] Brett: Yeah, we could [00:04:46] Christina: love to get to max. Yeah. I’d love to be at max dock proper, but like Victor, I don’t want to like skip lines or anything. I don’t want to [00:04:52] Brett: come on. Take advantage of knowing. [00:04:56] Christina: I mean, okay, fair. I will. If it’s an opportunity, if you [00:04:59] Victor: do [00:04:59] Christina: it out, I will [00:05:00] absolutely go and do it, but I would also like to go to Chicago and meet up with people there. [00:05:04] I’d love to see Chardi that’d be cool. [00:05:05] Brett: Yeah. And Dan Peterson lives in Chicago, [00:05:08] Christina: Oh yeah. Dan [00:05:09] Brett: Dan Peterson, who just got married. Congratulations, Stan. I don’t know if he listens to this [00:05:13] Christina: he probably doesn’t but congrats to Dan Peterson. We, we, we, uh, we’re very happy for you. Muscles have very happy for you. [00:05:19] Brett: Uh, Jeff you’ve probably never met Dan. He is the, uh, lead designer for one password [00:05:25] Jeff: Oh, got it. Got it. Got it. [00:05:27] Brett: and he’s, he’s an old friend and a really amazing, amazing guy. What’s that? [00:05:34] Jeff: And an old employer of yours. Right? [00:05:35] Brett: Uh, he, he was a coworker of mine. Yes. [00:05:39] Jeff: Uh, nice. [00:05:40] Brett: not saying that my R my skill set was equal to his, but we were both under the employee of agile. So, uh, should we, should we have a mental health corner? [00:05:53] Do you guys feel you’re filling up for a mental health corner [00:05:57] Christina: Definitely. [00:05:57] Jeff: My [00:05:57] Brett: who wants to start? [00:06:00] [00:06:01] Victor: I’ll start since I’m, you know, the gas [00:06:03] Brett: awesome. [00:06:04] Christina: please. [00:06:05] Victor: I’ll skip the line. This one-time. [00:06:07] Jeff: Hey. [00:06:08] Victor: Right. I’ll uh, uh, so I’ve been doing two things because I suck at habits and, you know, consistency. Um, and about a year ago I started taking some meds for ADHD. Um, and that’s, you know, it’s been all right or whatever, but there’s still that whole issue of just like, you know, making time for certain things or whatever. [00:06:26] Uh, so, and I know we’re going to talk about favorite apps later. These are not favorite apps. These are apps that I suffer through. Um, they’re, they’re actually not very good at all, uh, in many ways, but they’re also good in other ways. So I do use them, uh, nuMe and, uh, fabulous is the other one. So fabulous.co. [00:06:43] If you go there, it’s really interesting. They’ve got like a, an art style. That’s probably not for everybody. Um, and there’s way too much going on, but what’s interesting is just the building of habits. How you start with one thing, like drink water as you wait, when you wake up. Not as you wait, [00:07:00] that’d be interesting. [00:07:01] Uh, when you wait. Drink some water, you do that three days in a row, and then you add another habit, like, you know, meditate or write in your journal or something like that. So that’s pretty cool. Um, but yeah, so that’s that, that has helped my mental health and I’m not getting paid by any of these people to do any of this stuff, just so you know, uh, you know, uh, but it’s, it’s really helped my mental health because it reminds me to do some of the stuff that keeps me healthy through the day. [00:07:28] Um, and mostly like meditate and write in my journal. So I don’t fall victim to like time blindness, uh, primarily, yeah. [00:07:36] Jeff: Timeline necessary. [00:07:38] Brett: uh, [00:07:38] Christina: yeah, [00:07:39] Brett: what ADHD meds are you on? Vector. [00:07:42] Victor: Uh, Adderall like five milligrams or something like super light, you know, I, I just, I don’t need to drink 12 cups of coffee a day. [00:07:50] Brett: I, uh, I asked for an increase in my dosage of Vyvanse and my, uh, doctor said, no, I’d rather that you found a [00:08:00] therapist. And so I’m still working to find the right therapist. Um, [00:08:06] Victor: good therapy too. Now I’ve got to, I’ve got a good therapist. That’s doing the integrated family systems, uh, stuff. So if you’ve never done that, it’s it’s really, really good. Um, [00:08:15] Brett: do you need a family for that? [00:08:17] Victor: Nope. The family’s all up in here. [00:08:19] Brett: Oh, all right. [00:08:21] Victor: Kelly’s pieces. The theory is that you got all these pieces that have broken off. [00:08:24] I mean, has anybody watched moon night? Okay. So dissociative disorders, like the far end of the spectrum of this, the, the lighter end is like, you know, when you’ve got a craving or when you feel sad, you eat your feelings. Well, somethings, you know, telling you do this and you’ll feel better, it’s trying to help you. [00:08:41] Uh, and so what you do is you identify that and then you kind of work with it, you know, in certain ways or whatever you may say, Hey, I’m a grownup now. It’s okay. You can call them down. Uh, and you know, but you, you have to do that pretty repeatedly. Uh, and I, you know, explore stuff and whatever. So yeah, it’s an, it’s a new ish kind of therapy. [00:08:58] Brett: I will, I will keep [00:09:00] my eye open for. [00:09:00] Jeff: It’s that idea that you without overthinking or over-analyzing you, you kind of, you recognize that there’s a part of you, you have many parts and that there’s a part of you that needs this thing for some reason to be calm. And what you just said is what was so striking to me about it, which is then you’re kind of gone. [00:09:21] Hey, okay, cool. Yeah, no, that’s real. I need that. I need did that. Do I still need it? Right. Like I still need this thing to protect me in this way right now. I always really loved, I don’t, I’m not, uh, my therapy is not family systems, so my father-in-law who I happen to, like, which I know is rare in, uh, the world of in-laws, uh, is deep into that, that modality of therapy. [00:09:44] And I just love hearing about it and thinking about it. So that’s cool. Awesome. I can just keep her I’ll just roll. I don’t have a lot to say I have something really one really wonderful change in my [00:10:00] life is that having gotten, um, steroid shot in my back, um, that was really badly needed. I wasn’t able to walk even a block without everything seizing up. [00:10:10] Um, my wife and I take evening walks again, and that is great for me. And that is great for us. And actually you mentioned Victor time blindness. Um, I realized how important, uh, connecting like that. In that kind of like we used to call in the Trump era is we, we took walks morning and night and call them worry, walks. [00:10:30] Cause like, that was like the best place to, to talk about all of the things happening in the world. And you know, it really helped you to metabolize it, you know, rather than just like sitting in a room and then the conversation’s over and you’re still sitting in the room. It’s like, it’s like, you’re leaving every piece behind you as you go. [00:10:44] Right. Um, and, and it became such a marker of time for me. And so I’ve, I’ve noticed even just in the last few days, um, that like I have a much stronger sense of time and, and my day and all of those things, and that’s been [00:11:00] really great. [00:11:00] Brett: I think that I think that negative discussion while walking thing kind of works for me and Al um, I, I think it’s safest to bring up scary, especially political topics while we’re walking, probably for the same reasons you just described. Um, I tend to go to the scary side of things very quickly. Um, I’m like, well, okay, the world is over. [00:11:27] Cause this is happening and it doesn’t affect me. Like, I, I can think those things and then just move on. Um, but L cannot, uh, so it has to be like tempered and we definitely could not have those conversations sitting in the living room. So yeah, I think there’s something to that idea of like, kind of keeping moving while having those negative conversations. [00:11:53] Jeff: give it to the air, you know, it’s kinda like why it’s so nice to sit for me to sit by waves. You just feel like, I [00:12:00] feel like the waves are doing the work for me. I don’t have to be chaotic. They’re chaotic. And they’re just kind of going, let us do this. [00:12:08] Brett: All right, Christina, you are. [00:12:11] Christina: Uh, I’ll go, um, yeah, not a ton to update on. Uh, there is some stuff going on in my mental health that I’m not really, it’s not my place to talk about it. So, but, but is hopefully will lead to some, some good things related to my mental health. So it’s someone else’s mental health, but it’s not mine, but it’ll hopefully have some, some good impact on me if things are dealt with. [00:12:30] But, uh, yeah, no, I’ve been, um, you know, I was out of town for like a week basically because I was in San Diego and then I was home for 12 hours, 10 hours, something like that. And then I was in Atlanta, um, for a conference, um, not with the family, which was nice. I did see the baby for my nephew for a night, but it was, I, I was there for the conference and, um, it was really nice to meet my coworkers in person. [00:12:53] And it was really nice to, um, Have that kind of time. And, and I, I find that that [00:13:00] sort of thing really energizes me and, and really helps with a lot of my other mental health, like being around people actually really helps my mental health. And so I’m looking forward to continuing to do more of that. [00:13:12] Brett: Yeah. [00:13:12] Jeff: Um, [00:13:15] Brett: Okay. [00:13:15] Victor: extrovert or an extroverted. [00:13:18] Christina: I’m not sure because I definitely like my alone time and I definitely like to be able to, sometimes I can be, it can be too much and I just need time to kind of recharge. But in general, I think that I’m like an extrovert introvert, if that makes sense. They, because I really do feed off of other people. [00:13:34] So yeah. [00:13:36] Brett: you have a time limit when you’re, when you’re with other people, do you continually gain energy or do you hit a point where you’re like, okay, now I need to go. [00:13:47] Christina: Um, it depends, right. Like, cause okay. And it also depends on what the thing is. I could be. Okay. So San Diego is a great example because, um, I got there and I was by myself for a night, but then, um, I had got a really [00:14:00] big hotel room. I got a suite and my friend Ray stayed with me. And so it was like a, it was like 800 square feet. [00:14:05] Right. So it was this massive, you know, huge like, like sweet and whatnot. But Ray and I were basically together the whole weekend. And then we were also at the wedding with, for our friend Chrissa and there were other things and I didn’t feel like, you know, Put upon, you know what I mean? But if I’m at a conference, but no, but you know, but if I’m at a conference for instance, and I have to be on and that’s a little bit different than just being yourself and I’ve got to be like on and smiling and I’m giving talks and I’m also answering customer questions. [00:14:37] I mean, doing other things, I would say that like 14 hours is probably my limit and then I [00:14:41] Brett: Oh, Jesus. [00:14:42] Christina: go home and recharge and, and, and I need, again, I need to, I need to go home and recharge. And sometimes though you can’t, because sometimes I immediately, after the conference, you didn’t have to go to the parties and all that stuff. [00:14:54] But usually there is time where I’m like, okay, like if I w if I would do a day of talks and [00:15:00] booth duty, I would usually be like, okay, I’m going to try to find some time where, like me and maybe a colleague can just like chill in the hotel and order out, or the next day I need to not be at the conference and I need to walk around and I need to just like, re like decompress, because I I’ve been on like too long, if that makes. [00:15:18] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like if it’s one person or even two people that I get along with. In a comfortable way and I don’t have to be like on, um, I can, uh, yeah, I don’t have a time limit on that, but like a conference environment. Uh, I need a break every couple hours, even if it’s just going in like closing a bathroom stall for five minutes, uh, just I need the break, but going from a conference floor straight to a party, I could not do. [00:15:50] I will always find an excuse to go back to the hotel room. Give me half an hour by myself, and then maybe I can go to a party. [00:15:59] Christina: [00:16:00] Yeah. And in many times I would probably like to do that, but I’m not always in a position to do that. And I would say that when I was younger, I was definitely more of like an introvert extrovert. And I definitely liked my alone time more. And I was always happy to play by myself. I didn’t mind playing with other people, but I was always happy to play with, by myself as I’ve gotten older. [00:16:17] And as I’ve had to be. In more extroverted situations, I’ve gotten, it’s become easier. And it’s also become a thing that does, to a certain extent, like boosts me up and I can have a really good time. But yeah, there is a certain point when I’m just done and I’m like, okay. As much as I like being around people, I’ve got to, I’ve got to go and be by myself and just like watch TV, mindlessly or something. [00:16:42] And just like sit because it’s just, it’s just too much. [00:16:45] Brett: Yeah, [00:16:45] Jeff: As my late grandmother was. [00:16:47] Brett: both going on. [00:16:48] Jeff: My league ground weather would say enough is enough. [00:16:54] Brett: Um, yeah. Cool. So I don’t, I don’t actually have much to report [00:17:00] either. Um, Ben getting shit done at work. I kind of next week, I I’ll be starting on a big publishing automation project for work. Um, and I kind of gave myself permission this week to, uh, be a little slower with getting things done. Just kind of in preparation for the hours that that’s going to take. [00:17:27] Um, I’ve gotten away with it too. I have a, a great setup that I shouldn’t say out loud, but basically I work for multiple teams and every one of those teams is convinced that I’m busy with another one of those teams. So on a week where I really need some breathing space, I can just pretend. In any given meeting, like never do all three managers show up for the same meeting. [00:17:57] So I can always, I I’m like a kid [00:18:00] with divorced parents that can like play the parents against each other. Um, and, and that on, on weeks like this where I really, I need the space, um, I, I explain that I’m a, I’m a bad person, but I make up for it. I get my shit done. Um, I get everything done, but, uh, I also, we we’ve been taking walks still, uh, out in Wisconsin wetlands and I have to make a retraction. [00:18:30] Jeff, you asked me if there were bugs on our property or on our walks and, uh, L listened to the episode and, and I had to answer to them the affirmative and elderly. There are no bugs anywhere. Any none of these places have bugs. And I realized, I don’t know what a bug is. So we looked it up. I looked at pictures and yeah, [00:19:00] no bugs look magical and I do not have a bug. [00:19:12] I have a swamp. I have a marsh at best. I do not have a bog. [00:19:17] Jeff: I appreciate your honesty. [00:19:20] Christina: I didn’t know. I didn’t know where the bog was until right now. And I’m looking it up and I’m like, oh, okay. And I’ll be honest with you. Some of them I think, do look magical, but if I were just to like, be like, at least the first picture in Wikipedia. Okay. Some of these other ones are magical, but the first picture in Wikipedia I’m like, this is a fucking swamp. [00:19:39] Jeff: It doesn’t sound good. [00:19:41] Brett: Right. What, what, like my, my, all the knowledge I had of a bog was from the bygone 20 song, the bog, which does not. Uh, terribly pretty picture. It doesn’t paint much of a picture at all. It’s just industrial music, but [00:19:58] Jeff: Could be the fault of the [00:20:00] painter. [00:20:00] Christina: I [00:20:00] Brett: guess I always assumed eyes. I just always assumed it was like a very muddy place. [00:20:07] Victor: Is there a genre of music that just sings Wikipedia lyrics or radio PTO work entries. [00:20:13] Jeff: not a bad idea. [00:20:14] Brett: to [00:20:15] Christina: Ah, okay. New million dollar idea. [00:20:19] Brett: auto [00:20:20] Victor: of those AI. And I get one of those AI music composers and set it to Wikipedia. [00:20:25] Jeff: Yup. Yup. We can do that. Be a long song. [00:20:30] Brett: So, uh, Jeff, you, you threw a topic on our list that says fake it until you barely make it. I’m curious. [00:20:37] Jeff: Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. So, um, In my professional life, I have had the most fake it till you barely make it a kind of weak ever. And it wasn’t unintentional. It’s like partly, uh, partly a way that I know I grow, but I am so, so I, you know, for [00:21:00] 25 years I was a journalist and I’ve been a, what I call an investigative researcher, um, for the last several years, which is basically using that toolbox, but using it for projects other than journalism. [00:21:14] And we’ve talked on this show about my, uh, juvenile justice work, um, around, uh, and, and my research there and, and how I ended up hiring Brett to both help with workflows, but also with sort of a tool that helps to sort of process audio, um, interviews and all this stuff. Like I know my toolbox and my skillset super, super well, and I decided to step outside of it. [00:21:40] Adequate support. And, and specifically, so I, I’m a member owner of a research and evaluation firm. It’s a co uh, collaboratively owned, uh, firm. And we work strictly with social justice organizations doing traditional evaluation work. I do sort of investigative journalism work. [00:22:00] Um, and it occurred to me. I love working with data. [00:22:03] I love thinking about data. I love thinking about data problems. Um, and I’m not a programmer, but I’m certainly comfortable in many programming environments until, you know, I have to really drill down. Um, and the, the sort of model that we’re piloting with one organization here in Minneapolis is like, um, what if you had sort of a data chaplaincy service where like you had a handful of people who were really good with data, one was good with data integrity. [00:22:32] One was good with. Working with data, uh, you know, processing data, wrangling data. Another one maybe is more like front end. Right. Um, and you could go to, to small nonprofits who, who have data, uh, that they don’t really know how to leverage or have data that doesn’t have integrity, because who’s had the time to think about how you gather the data. [00:22:54] You always just rushing to try to like, you know, meet this funding, this funders deadline or another. [00:23:00] Um, and so we’re piloting this idea of sort of data chaplaincy and the people we’re piloting. Um, mainly just need help, uh, sort of freeing data from a CRM. They’re using these a HubSpot, uh, CRM, which has a pretty good API. [00:23:17] Um, and, but inside of it, partly because of the way they constructed their own database. And partly because they’re using it for something that isn’t really isn’t really meant for. Um, but their organization is saying you’ve got to use this, right. We realized that a solution would be to just really dive into the API, liberate their data and, and make it so that it’s really flexible and that they can do all sorts of things with it that they aren’t able to do inside of the CRM. [00:23:43] And, and that’s all great. Everything’s going fine. I’ve got, uh, you know, I’ve I created a, you know, sort of a business plan for them. I. Piloting. So like, they’re, they’re very patiently kind of giving me feedback on what helps, what does it mostly, it just feels like the reason I joke it’s data chaplaincy [00:24:00] is because people in nonprofits, you start talking to them about helping them with their data. [00:24:04] And it’s like, it’s like you’re in there holding their hand saying, I know it hurts, you know, like, um, cause everyone suffers through that a little bit, but I got into a situation where I needed to kind of do a little show and tell which mostly just involved me diving into the API. Um, and that was all fine for a while. [00:24:26] And then I got to the point where I hit my own sort of like, okay, shit. Like I’ve, I’ve reached what I know how to do with this Python wrapper. I’ve reached what I know how to do by just like jumping out of the wrapper and just doing curl requests. I’ve reached what I can do by a messaging Brett at 6:00 PM, uh, in a panic. [00:24:43] And I have a meeting tomorrow, which was today and I went into that meeting. I haven’t had this experience in. I don’t know if I’ve ever had this experience in my professional life, because I’ve always stuck really well within my ability to at least bullshit. Um, you know, like if [00:25:00] you’ve got a skill set, right. [00:25:01] You know, what it takes to sort of get through a meeting that you weren’t actually ready for. Right. Um, and in this case I had to really just run up against the deadline, realizing, like I don’t have what I told them. I needed to give them and, uh, and the barely made it thing. That’s beautiful is I took the, uh, who, not how approach and just decided like, just before I got in the meeting, I’m like, I’m hiring somebody to finish this. [00:25:27] Cause like, I, you know, this is a pad use of the money. It’s not coming out of their budget. Part of our sort of pilot program is that we actually go to the people who fund these people and say, you pay us for this. Don’t take it out of their money. You pay us for this. Cause you pay them for other work and we can help make it so that they can do that work better. [00:25:46] Right. So we’re not like taking money out of their pockets in the like 10 hours probably that I spent that would have taken someone else too. Um, but just realizing like, Hey, that didn’t feel so good to barely make it. Um, and [00:26:00] I, I hung on that long cause I wanted to learn it. But one thing about, one thing about coding is like, you can’t. [00:26:09] Um, the way I can force almost anything else that’s in my skillset. So, anyway, I’m curious. So I’m going to turn this into a question for you all, like, do you have areas, um, in your professional life that either you are in and you feel over your head, you don’t have to say it on the podcast or that you would like to be in over your head on so that maybe you could grow into that area a little bit. [00:26:33] Anybody relating to any of this? [00:26:34] Brett: I [00:26:35] Christina: yeah. I, I, 100% relate on. [00:26:38] Brett: no. [00:26:39] Jeff: No, do it, Christina. [00:26:41] Christina: No, I was just going to say, like, I I’ve always, like, I kind of had a fake it til you make it approach for a lot of things. And I think, uh, to, to your point, as you were saying, like as a journalist, that is sort of part of the thing, right? Because a lot of times we have to write about things that we don’t have deep knowledge or expertise on, and you have to turn it around very quickly, but you also need to be [00:27:00] as accurate as possible. [00:27:01] At least that was what I always tried to do. And so there would be times when I would have things where I might not know at the beginning of how I was doing something, but I’d have to kind of like pretend and then just go into it and learn as fast as possible. And to me, that was always sort of part of the appeal, uh, with my day job, with my current, one of my old one, my current one is a little bit different, but my, uh, because I feel like I have I’m coming in with a lot more knowledge because of my, my last day job. [00:27:26] But like when I started, um, you know, at, at micro. I knew Jack shit about Azure. I didn’t know anything about it. And yet I’m supposed to be kind of an expert and I’m supposed to be giving talks. I’m supposed to be teaching people how to do this stuff. And I don’t know. Right. And so there was what I found was I look forward to almost having like these deadlines, like you’re going to have to give this talk. [00:27:48] Okay, well then I’m gonna have to build the talk and I’m going to have to go through all the things. I’m gonna have to figure out how to do it. And, and even though when I’m giving the talk, I still might be talking out my ass a little bit. If you are asking me questions, I might give wrong answers. And I certainly did [00:28:00] early on, but as I got more into it, like I would know more and I would learn more. [00:28:05] And I would actually like, by the end, I was like, no, I actually know quite a bit. About a lot of these different things. Um, but yeah, there are definitely times when absolutely I have to create a video or a presentation or do something I’m like, I’ve never touched this before and I don’t know necessarily what I’m doing and I don’t want people to hear that thing. [00:28:26] Oh, Christina is like completely full of shit. And if I watch one of her videos, it’s, it’s like not good information. Cause that’s not true by the time it goes out, I feel very confident that for the audience I’m targeting and for what I’m doing, that it, it it’s a, it’s been fact checked. It’s been like, it’s, it’s had tech checks, it’s had other people go through it and I feel confident, but when I’ve agreed to take it on, I don’t know. [00:28:49] You know, and it’s like, it’s very much a kind of a fake it till you make it, um, or barely make it type of thing. [00:28:56] Jeff: Yeah, [00:28:57] Christina: Yeah. I mean, sometimes I’m not like you will, or you won’t and that’s [00:29:00] always part of like, I guess the fun of it, like usually like my, my look, my life philosophy is that it’ll be okay. Probably. [00:29:08] Right. Like, I’m sure that there’ll be scenarios where I wouldn’t, but I also, I guess for me I have like limits. Like I would not for instance, try to fake it till I make it and pilot a plane. Right? Like there, there, there, there are certain things that I would not take on because I’m like, okay, if I fuck up here, the it barely make it or don’t make it. [00:29:27] Then there are real consequences. But for other stuff, like the worst that can happen is that I’m going to be embarrassed, maybe chastise and have to make a correction, but the world will not end. And [00:29:38] Brett: ever, have you ever not made it, like, have you ever said I can do this knowing full well that you were going to have to figure out how to do it before you could do it and then not done it? [00:29:51] Christina: Yeah. [00:29:52] Brett: Okay. [00:29:52] Christina: that’s, and that’s shitty. That sucks. And, and when you, when that, when that happens, that’s really shitty. I, once, uh, I, I volunteered to write a [00:30:00] program, um, cause it would have been a very simple uploader thing so that people could upload a certain asset. This was for a community thing we were doing, um, at a conference and I volunteered to write a uploader thing and I could have done it in another language, but I just decided, yeah, I can do it in.net. [00:30:13] It won’t be that difficult, never written in Donna before. I didn’t like getting set up. If I’d had a little more time, I probably could have figured it out. Did I get it done in time? No, absolutely did not. And I had to kind of be like, yep. I had to kind of go back to the people and be like, yeah, I thought I could do this, but I can’t. [00:30:26] I’m sorry. And it sucked and it made me look like a flake and it sucked. And then that was a good reminder to say in my mind. Okay. Be more realistic about your goals, about what you promise, like for the, Cooper’s got a little bit of the best of me, because many times, in most cases I am able to eat out. Uh, that was a case where I could not, and there’ve been other instances too. [00:30:49] That was, that was just the first that comes to mind. But yeah, there definitely being been instances and it’s shitty, but, um, you know, that’s also part of learning [00:30:57] Brett: The hardest thing for me is saying no. [00:31:00] If someone pitches an idea to me and says, Hey, I think you could help with this. And even if I can help with it, it’s so hard to say, no, I don’t have time for this. No. Um, I, I know that I will end up flaking on you. If I agree to do this, I don’t actually have to say that part out loud, but I have to admit that to myself and I have to learn to say no to projects, like all the time at work. [00:31:27] I agree to do things much like you, uh, talking about, you know, giving a talk on Azure. I, my entire job is me agreeing to write articles and do screencasts on stuff that I do not know that I can do. Um, and thus far I’ve mostly succeeded. Um, if I said I could do it, I’ve been able to do it. My biggest fear though, is those follow-up questions you mentioned, um, that like, yeah, I can figure out enough to make [00:32:00] a, a solid presentation with things that I know to be true, but if you come at me with follow-up questions, all bets are off. [00:32:09] I don’t know what’s going to happen. [00:32:11] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, no. And, and, and what I found for both of these things, what is, and this is, has been really, really hard for me historically, because I’m a perfectionist and, and, and I, I want to be, that’s just who I am. I’ve always, I’ve worked on it a lot, but I’m, I’m a, I am a perfectionist. I want to not just be able to do things. [00:32:30] I want to be able to do it. Right. And I want to be able to, I don’t compare. Really that much against others, but I am comparing myself like against like myself and I’m holding myself to a very high standard. And what happens sometimes would have had to learn is a, like you said to say no, which can be really hard cause you want to help. [00:32:47] Like I want to help people. And, and I, I feel good about that is a learning to say no, which is really important. And B, and this has been a hard one too, but it’s been really important is learning when people ask you something and I don’t know the answer to just [00:33:00] say, I don’t know. [00:33:01] Jeff: Mm. [00:33:02] Christina: That is really hard because most people like, even on this podcast, you be like, oh, Christina knows everything. [00:33:06] She’ll have an answer for everything. And I have a lot of information. I do know a lot of things. Right. And I’m good at having answers. And sometimes they’re not correct, but most of the time they are, the problem is though, like, you know, cause I’ll be honest about that. I’m not, obviously I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m imperfect, I’m human and I’m there’s. [00:33:21] I have to remind myself all the time. There’s so many things I don’t know. And I want to learn so much, but I genuinely love to learn, but it’s become really important for me. And I’ve gotten much, much better about owning and admitting. No, you know what? I don’t know. I don’t know, but I can, I can help you find someone who will, and maybe they’ll look at me and think, well, you gave this talk, how come you don’t know the answer to this? [00:33:42] And maybe they’ll think less of me and that’s okay. You know, if they, if they do like, that’s completely, I have to live with that. I have to like have that reality. But I also have to think, do I expect every single person that I’ve ever seen given. To know every answer to everything. No, I don’t, you know, especially if they can help me find the answer, I don’t expect someone to be omnipotent [00:34:00] and know every answer what’s in. [00:34:02] What I used to do is I would kind of give a bullshit answer and then I’d realized later that it was wrong. And I was like, fuck, I gave them the wrong answer. You know, you feel bad about it. And you’re like, well, I can’t track the person down now, but it sucks. And now I’ve kind of learned. I’m like, no, you know what if I genuinely don’t know, I’ll be like, that’s a great question. [00:34:19] I do not know the answer to that, but let me find somebody who does, and then I, at that same time, if I can, I try to learn the answer so that if I’m ever asked again, I now know, but that’s, that’s the tough thing is, is I think for, for me anyway, it, but what’s helped is just, yeah. If I get the followup questions and I don’t know. [00:34:36] Be honest about that. And I’ve even done things I’ve even done things in life talks where people have asked me, I was like, all right, we’re going to have a fun game called Google it together. And, and, and like look through it. And, you know, and, and, and like, I’m like, and I’ll even joking, like in you, you could have just read the documentation instead of hearing me talk, you don’t make, I’ll be self-deprecating about it. [00:34:54] But also most of us how we work, we do have [00:35:00] to look things up. Like that’s, that’s part of it. So I, yeah, to me, it’s been difficult to learn, to accept and admit when I don’t know the answer, but I’ve gotten so much better with it. And it’s that, that helps me. [00:35:13] Jeff: Yeah. What about you Victor? [00:35:17] Victor: Oh, [00:35:18] Jeff: Never, man. [00:35:20] Victor: I take the easier. No, no, I’m kidding. I, Um, a lot of times I was just thinking back to, uh, early in my career back when there was a term called webmaster. Um, Yeah. and I, it was an e-commerce site and it was actually, you know, it was adequate or whatever for 2001. Um, and I promised to build some database actually, uh, some backend shit and it did not go well. [00:35:44] And I ended up having to hire someone to come in and, you know, build the database and then I could connect it and all that. But Yeah. [00:35:50] that was, uh, that was humbling at, oh, the irony Brett’s over there smiling because he knows that like my life right now is somewhat similar. Um, but also like, I, [00:36:00] uh, I was just telling someone the other day that I have been a magic hobbyist since I was like seven or eight years old and I’ve never taken it seriously enough. [00:36:08] So like, I I’m, I go to these conferences, I went to a conference recently in Atlanta. And one of the big things about magic conferences is you sit in and magic tricks, Right. You sit down and you jam with other magicians who are really good, so you can learn new things. You can maybe show something you’ve been working on. [00:36:26] It’s pretty cool. You know, like not many arts do that. Certainly I did stand up comedy for a while and you don’t do that with standard comedians by and large. Sometimes you do, if you’re lucky, you’re real lucky. Um, but at any rate, It was humbling because I got up there and I was like, I don’t know, a damn thing. [00:36:41] I can’t hang. And I just kind of like backed up and it was like Homer going into the bushes. Um, so yeah, so I took a David Blaine course over the past 30 days or something and that’s been good, but it’s, that’s the thing, you know? Yeah. I mean, I was a journalist as well. And you know, you learn this stuff. [00:36:56] Um, I, I did a call-in show on systemic [00:37:00] racism and I did not know enough facts, you know, to, to say this, that or the other, but by the time, and I wanted to be, uh, you know, careful about what I said to be accurate. This was public radio, um, and a pretty good audience. And we had a very good discussion and I ended up winning an award for that. [00:37:18] So it was like, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. Yeah. [00:37:22] Jeff: What about okay. But the David Blaine course, what’s, what’s one way that your magic game has changed since taking that course. [00:37:31] Victor: Well, you know, the, the big thing was just having stakes in it. It was a, it was a synchronous 30 day thing. So you had peer reviews that you had to turn in, you had to like show a video. So it actually got me out of my shell because one of the biggest things, and this is why I don’t think Brett or Christina has seen a single damn magic trick that I’ve ever done, uh, is because I’m super nervous doing it. [00:37:51] Like I have no problem doing standup comedy, which all my actor, friends, like I couldn’t do that. I’m like, what are you talking about? You’re an act. But, you know, [00:38:00] I magic for some reason, performing for other people is just really, really, and part of it’s, you know, the consistency thing and all that, and practicing enough to where you can do it. [00:38:08] And I can lie with a straight face. I’m not good at that. Uh, so yeah, you know, all of that, but it forced me to practice. [00:38:17] Jeff: Yeah, yeah. Practice practice. I kept thinking about that while I was trying to burn my way through this API project. I was like, well, what I need is practice and I’m getting it now, but it’s not going to end in what they need. And that’s the thing too, is like, you can kind of beat up on yourself or I can beat up on myself and then forget to remember that. [00:38:39] Oh, well that was a Nick, a Nick of time situation, but I just learned a ton this last week. Um, but yeah. [00:38:47] Brett: All right. We got to take an ad break. We’re going to do, we’re going to do a block of ads. We’re going to do three ads in a row. So buckle in folks. Uh, we’re going to start with Jeff and [00:39:00] text expander. [00:39:05] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:39:05] Jeff: Hey, man. I think he got the volume right on that, on that bit. Finally, I love it. Uh, get your team communicating faster so they can focus on what’s most important with text expander. Your team’s knowledge is at their fingertips. Get your whole team on the same page by getting information out of silos and into the hands of everyone that needs to use it. [00:39:26] Uh, you can share your team’s knowledge across departments. So your team is sending a unified message to your customers and isn’t spending time reinventing the wheel. Let them do that in other areas of your company’s work. Um, here’s how it works. First, you store it. Keep your company’s most used emails, phrases, messages, URLs, and more right within text expander. And then you can share it. Get your whole team access to all the content they need to use every day. And then you can expand it. [00:39:56] Uh, so deploy the content you need with [00:40:00] just a few keystrokes on any device across any apps you use. It’s that easy text expander expanders available on Mac windows, Chrome, iPhone, and iPad. Over tired listeners. Get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander. [00:40:20] Before we go to the next ad, I got to say text expander. I needed to use this API code a lot as I was playing, uh, around the last week. So I made a little, little expander, little expander. I know that’s what they call it. They call it a snippet, but I call it an expander. And, uh, and I just want to say that that is a tool in my toolbox. [00:40:40] And sometimes it feels like my whole damn toolbox. So texts, expander for. [00:40:44] Brett: Text expander. [00:40:46] Sponsor: New Relic [00:40:46] Brett: And, uh, if you’re a software engineer you’ve been there, it’s 9:00 PM and you’re finally unwinding from work and your phone buzzes with an alert something’s broken and your mind’s already racing and what could be wrong? Is it the backend or the [00:41:00] front end? Is it global? Is it the server? Did I introduce a bug in my last deploy? [00:41:05] Now the whole team scrambling from tool to tool and messaging person after person to find and fix the issue. This won’t happen. If you get new Relic. New Relic, combined 16 different monitoring products that you’d normally buy separately. So engineering teams can see across their entire software stack in one place. [00:41:24] More importantly, you can pinpoint issues down to the line of code. So you know exactly why the problem happened and can resolve it quickly. That’s why the dev ops team at door dash GitHub, epic games, and more than 14,000 other companies use new Relic to debug and improve their software. Whether you run a cloud native startup or a fortune 500 company, it takes just five minutes to set up new Relic in your environment. [00:41:51] That next 9:00 PM call is just waiting to happen. Get new Relic before it does, and you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and 100 [00:42:00] gigabytes of data for free forever. No credit card required. Sign up at new relic.com/overtired that’s N E w R E L I c.com/overtime. New relic.com/overtime. [00:42:18] Christina: And going, uh, louder. Last one. Uh, [00:42:22] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:42:22] Christina: you guys know that we love the break in protection that simply safe home security systems give you, but it’s not always outside forces that you need simply safe protection from. And this is Terry story as simply safe customer. So Terry was away for the weekend for her daughter’s wedding. [00:42:37] And the morning of the big day, she got a call from simply safe, twenty four, seven professional monitoring center, and they let her know that her. I had detected water in her basement. So in moments like this time is critical because even an inch of flooding can cause more than $25,000 worth of damage. [00:42:55] Thankfully, simply safe. It detected the water just moments after the leaking had started. [00:43:00] And after talking to simply safe, Terry called her neighbor who quickly turned the water in her home off before the flooding got bad, protecting against floods is just one of the reasons more than 4 million people trust their home protection to simply safe with comprehensive simply safe system and 24 7 professional monitoring. [00:43:16] You can have someone always looking out for you just like. Plan started under a dollar a day with no long-term contracts or hidden fees ever. You can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. That’s S I M P L I S a F e.com/overtired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. [00:43:41] Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/overtired that’s S I M P L I S a F E simply safe.com/overtired. [00:43:56] Trek Forever [00:43:56] Brett: Do we need applause? Do I have applause? [00:44:00] Where’s my, here we go. [00:44:05] Christina: Yeah. [00:44:05] Brett: Okay. Okay. [00:44:07] Jeff: Oh boy. He hit it [00:44:08] Brett: on a loop. Um, I’m not good at soundboards. Um, so there’s a bunch of media that I would love to talk to you guys about. However, since we have Victor here and I know Victor shares my love of all things, star Trek, I, I would love to talk about brave new world or, uh, strange new worlds with, with you guys. [00:44:35] Uh, show of hands who here has seen strange new worlds, [00:44:40] Jeff: Um, this isn’t a hand being shown, but I’m excited for this conversation cause I dropped off at wrath of Khan and so I’m, I’m ready. I’m ready to I’m ready for the, for the pitch. [00:44:51] Victor: We’re going to convert people today. [00:44:52] Brett: I, how Victor, what would you say your level of star Trek? How much star [00:45:00] Trek do you need to have seen to enjoy strange new worlds? [00:45:03] Victor: Zero. [00:45:04] Brett: Zero. It’s just good out of that. [00:45:07] Victor: Yeah, it’s their bottle episodes. [00:45:10] Brett: Exactly like, so they for, uh, Picard and, uh, and discovery, like they had these overarching plots that took a season to resolve. And like every episode, you know, maybe there were some bottled topics within the episode, but there was this long running plot and the beauty of strange new worlds is they are bottle episodes and every episode has a start. [00:45:41] Uh, a problem, a hook, uh, you know, a conflict and then a resolution end of episode. And you can watch just one episode without being baffled. And sure. I mean, there are characters, there’s character development that happens over time and everything just like with any serial format, [00:46:00] but it gets back to, I mean, what the original series was, you know, like this, this very star Trek kind of approach and man it’s really fun. [00:46:11] Victor: Yeah. And it really uses a, I mean, it’s the classic science fiction thing of, uh, taking science fiction and talking about problems that we have, you know, as, as a society, as people as whatever. [00:46:25] Brett: issues. Yeah. [00:46:26] Victor: I don’t, I don’t know if you saw this last one, Brett, uh, with the kid. [00:46:32] Brett: I maybe not the last one I saw with Spock amok. [00:46:35] Victor: Okay. Yeah, no, that one’s awesome. That [00:46:37] Jeff: that sounds a little bit like Spock them up. But anyway. [00:46:40] Victor: I it’s, it’s a freaky Friday episode, basically where Spock and, uh, DePaul, right? Uh, they, uh, no, not that’s from enterprise. Uh, [00:46:48] Brett: To Paul that’s enterprise. Yeah, I forget. It’s two something [00:46:53] Victor: Yeah. Um, anyway, his, his fiance, they switch Contras. And so they’re in each other’s [00:47:00] body and, but it’s cool. [00:47:01] Cause it’s like, you see how, uh, you gain empathy from the other person’s perspective, even if you’re logical, like you, you know, you’re you’re, I don’t know. It was, beautiful. Um, even though it was a very comedic episode, but this, [00:47:14] Brett: was pretty funny. [00:47:15] Victor: Yeah. this, this newest one is extremely fricking dark. And I don’t know, I want to say what it’s a metaphor for, but, uh, I think it’s pretty obvious by the end, but I don’t want to ruin the ending. [00:47:26] So [00:47:27] Brett: No. [00:47:28] Christina: Yeah, I was going [00:47:29] Victor: there’s a child involved. [00:47:30] Christina: okay. All right. Yeah. I don’t want spoilers because I’ve been hearing good things about this from a number of people that I haven’t watched it yet. And now this is going to be the thing that pushes me over. So. [00:47:38] Victor: that’s [00:47:38] Jeff: Okay, hold on. Let me ask you though. So if I watch it and I love it. What’s next? [00:47:44] Victor: Hmm. Uh, well, did you watch any of next unit you didn’t rent so you didn’t watch next generation. [00:47:50] Jeff: no, I watched, you know, I saw an episode here they’re like hotel watching. Right. But that’s it. [00:47:56] Brett: Yeah. So I [00:47:57] Victor: deep space nine though. [00:48:00] [00:48:00] Brett: Yeah. Like you got to go from like chronologically, your next stop would be discovery. [00:48:07] Jeff: Okay. [00:48:07] Brett: think [00:48:08] Victor: Yeah. but I, [00:48:11] Brett: technically it would be the original series, but the original series while it was brilliant. And there was a lot to love there. It’s so old that it’s hard for me to get absorbed and I can only watch [00:48:23] Jeff: got that covered, man. I told you I’m I’m through Rafa con. Yeah, I got that. [00:48:27] Victor: so you’ve watched the [00:48:28] Brett: to do TNG. [00:48:30] Jeff: watched the original series and the, and the first couple of movies. [00:48:33] Victor: Okay. Um, yeah, I don’t watch any of the other movies. then. Um, you ended on a good note. [00:48:41] Jeff: Awesome. [00:48:42] Victor: Yeah. TNG. I mean, it’s a good series. It really is. Start [00:48:47] Brett: did, who directed the into darkness trilogy? Was that Zack Snyder? [00:48:53] Victor: Oh, no, it was a JJ Abrams. [00:48:55] Brett: Uh, yeah, that, that whole series splits off the [00:49:00] timeline. It’s like an alternate timeline. It’s kind of entertaining and in its own. Right. But not really star Trek. Cannon. [00:49:07] Victor: Right. [00:49:08] Jeff: Okay. [00:49:08] Christina: I love it. Cause it does this, the JJ thing that he always does where he loves alternate timelines. Like that’s his whole thing. Like since Felicity that’s his whole thing [00:49:15] Victor: They’re fun. I mean, you know, I enjoyed them, [00:49:18] Jeff: Awesome. [00:49:19] Victor: but I’m gonna purest. [00:49:21] Jeff: Not a purist. [00:49:22] Brett: So D did anyone see, uh, Picard season two? Am I, the only person here who’s seen Picard season two. [00:49:30] Christina: I might have, but it’s been so long. Cause it wasn’t it like two years. [00:49:33] Brett: No. [00:49:34] Victor: was season one. [00:49:36] Christina: well done. No, I [00:49:36] Victor: two. Just wrapped like what a month ago? I think. [00:49:39] Christina: Okay then no, I have [00:49:40] Brett: and they’ve, they’ve, they’re, they’re wrapping season three right now. I think. So there’s another season [00:49:45] Victor: Yeah, there was a huge cliffhanger. Yeah. [00:49:48] Brett: yeah, season two, man. I was, I got really into it. It’s not, if you are looking for star Trek in the, in the vein of, you know, TNG and strange new [00:50:00] worlds, it’s not, it’s not [00:50:01] Victor: like the least accessible star Trek ever, because not only is it kind of picking up from season one in a way, you know what I mean? Like they wrapped up data’s storyline, obviously in season one, but in season two, it’s all about Picard has this trauma. And if you don’t know anything about the car, you’re just going to be like, why am I watching? [00:50:19] Like the golden girls, cousin have this mid-life like late life crisis, the hell. [00:50:25] Brett: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta have some background and you, you kinda gotta want, you gotta want what, they’re, what they’re selling you, which in my case I did, and I found season two, very enjoyable, like really like gripping, but I saw a lot of people just hated it. I shouldn’t say a lot of people. I saw a couple of very vocal people, uh, very vocal star Trek fans who just hated it and thought it was a travesty, but I don’t [00:50:57] Jeff: The star Trek have a lot of those kinds of fans. [00:50:59] Victor: Oh, no, [00:51:00] no. Although, although I will [00:51:02] Jeff: Tell me about your culture. [00:51:04] Victor: thinking a lot about this because, uh, which, uh, just side note you noticed that star wars has no multi-verse aspect whatsoever, but like every other franchise does now, like star Trek was a pioneer with the mirror universe stuff. [00:51:15] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say they like, kind of started the whole thing. [00:51:17] Victor: yeah, even though it makes no fricking sense whatsoever, why would Cisco be out near deep anyway, whatever. But, but, but star wars fans, I think, seem to be a little bit more toxic because there’s not an ethos to star wars. Right. It’s just good guys versus bad guys. And, uh, it’s, it’s very just Cowboys and Indians kind of thing. And so, you know, but with star Trek, I noticed that like, people it’s it’s about truth. [00:51:43] It’s. I mean, I just posted this on my Facebook that it’s like, it’s about the search for truth, whether it’s historic scientific or personal truth, and that’s what scientists do. Yeah, damn right. Um, but you know, th th that’s the thing. And so they tend to be a little bit less emotional, [00:52:00] but they’re not all, I mean, there are people, you know, and it’s like, and they certainly have opinions about this stuff. [00:52:05] And that alternate timeline stuff seems to really make some people very mad, uh, which I get. [00:52:11] Brett: Well, like in the Marvel universe, like we have been conditioned to the idea of multi-verse and the idea of alternate timelines and this idea of sure this storyline can happen on its own without affecting any of the other storylines that we’ve laid out. And we can make things as messy as we want to. [00:52:32] And I feel like part of the drama of star Trek is it’s always been pretty logical. There have been, there have been plot holes. There have been obvious, uh, continuity issues between, especially between shows, but even, even within a show like it happens, but like it takes a much more logical. Approach. Uh, so I guess I see the multi-verse and Marvel as a, [00:53:00] cop-out almost as a way of saying we can do anything we want to, we own nothing to the cannon we built, uh, because this just, this is a different timeline. [00:53:11] Jeff: Yeah, that is totally [00:53:12] Brett: is a different [00:53:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:53:13] Brett: I’m [00:53:14] Victor: were. [00:53:15] Brett: sure. And I’m not a comic book guy, but I am a star Trek guy. And I guess I do, I, I don’t hate the multi-verse. I like, but I do consider it kind of a cop out in storytelling, but I do, I, I hear what you’re saying about comic books and that’s basically the history of comic [00:53:35] Victor: And it’s wrapped up also in time travel. Yeah. And soap Oh my God. [00:53:39] Jeff: That’s right. [00:53:40] Victor: The amount of time that Fichter Curiox has disappeared or whatever, I don’t know. Sorry. [00:53:45] Christina: And then the, the, the, the, the aging, the fact that people come back from all kinds of things. I mean, you know, it actually, what we should say about at the comic books or soap operas, it is, it is one of those things. There’s I think, natural to like serialized stories. [00:53:58] Brett: Um,[00:54:00] [00:54:01] Jeff: well, and it’s thrilling as a comic book fan to, especially when I kind of came to Marvel comic books late. And I love kind of trying to figure out which path I want to take to the present day, um, in order to sort of catch myself up or just, you know, you can kind of, it’s a little choose your own adventure in terms of the lore nowadays, especially, which [00:54:21] Victor: Well, and you, if you want it dark, or if you want it funny or whatever, it’s all the flavors of the rainbow. Yeah, It’s kind of cool that [00:54:27] Jeff: for sure. Yeah. [00:54:28] Brett: Did you guys see that Netflix is doing the Sandman? [00:54:32] Victor: Oh my God. Yes. [00:54:34] Brett: It looks, it looks amazing. [00:54:38] Jeff: does look good. [00:54:39] Brett: Neil Gaiman has given it his stamp of approval. [00:54:42] Christina: Well, that’s [00:54:43] Brett: he’s pimping it and, and yeah, it looks so fun. Like it looks like the kind of show I can totally get lost and I’m really looking forward to it. I think it comes out in August. [00:54:55] I think [00:54:56] Victor: I think [00:54:56] Brett: August 3rd coming up, it’s coming right up.[00:55:00] [00:55:00] Victor: I’ve got a hard bound, like collection of all of them that I’m going through right now, so, [00:55:04] Jeff: Oh, [00:55:05] Brett: Aye, aye. Volumes one and two separately. And I also picked up the audio books. Oh. Uh, this year I listened to the art volume one and two on audio book and it’s, it’s great. It’s just, it’s so fun. That’s a comic I can get into. Does that count as a comic or is it a graphic [00:55:24] Victor: graphic novel? [00:55:25] yeah, whatever you say, Mac, or you say Macintosh, come on, grow up. [00:55:32] Brett: Um, you guys ever see Habibi, [00:55:36] Jeff: no. [00:55:37] Brett: it’s a graphic novel about. A girl growing up in, I’m not sure what the era is supposed to be. I think it’s modern, but it’s a girl growing up in the middle east. Um, and the, the graphic novel, like tackles, um, kind of the origins of, uh, the Koran and [00:56:00] contrast it with the Christian Bible and then talks about it’s it’s, it’s a very compelling, I got my, my girlfriend got me the hard cover, uh, compilation of the entire graphic novel, and I read the whole thing over about two weeks and it was amazing. [00:56:20] And if you have any interest in Arab culture worth checking out, [00:56:26] Jeff: Nice. Awesome. Should we, uh, should we grab the two, this place all [00:56:31] Brett: oh my God. Yeah. [00:56:32] Christina: Yeah. We need to grab this suit cause Brett has a hard out. [00:56:34] Jeff: That’s right. [00:56:36] Brett: Um, I, you want me to go first since I have the heart out, then I, I can talk out if I have to, um, this week I’m picking Pelletreau, uh, so in sublime text, and now in vs code, you can hit command shift P and you get a command palette and you can access pretty much every [00:57:00] feature of your IDE in the command palette. [00:57:03] Christina: So, so they, so they’ve copied vs code. [00:57:05] Brett: I believe sublime headed first, I believe sublime preexists, [00:57:10] Jeff: This is almost like a star Trek [00:57:12] Christina: no, no. I was just going to say command shift P cause the command pallet NBS could we’ll do the exact same thing, but sorry, go [00:57:16] Brett: no, absolutely. But I believe, I believe it originated with sublime text. Um, and, uh, anyway, like this idea of the command palette, uh, I always thought, man, it would be cool if I could do this. You know, any application. And then one day I went to set up to figure out what had happened to another app that I was trying to use. [00:57:45] And, uh, and it came up as a suggested app Pelletreau and it uses a system events and accessibility features to give you a command ship P pallet in any application that gives you [00:58:00] type ahead access to any menu item for the app. [00:58:03] Christina: How do you spell this? [00:58:05] Brett: P a L E T R O. [00:58:08] Christina: Okay. Okay. Got it. [00:58:10] Brett: it works [00:58:11] Jeff: I feel like I’ve internalized sort of how you internalize a command comma for preferences. Uh, I do find myself being like, oh, well, how do I do this control shift, Pete. Now [00:58:21] Brett: Well, and like command T in it, depending on what’s what shortcuts you set up in vs code, but definitely in sublime text command T is how you like flip between files and you can like type a head for any file in your project and just switch files. And I actually changed the shortcuts in like X code. [00:58:42] Cause I just internalized that command T so what would be command shift O and X code is now command T for me, which means if I use anyone else’s machine I’m screwed, but, um, anyway, yeah, that’s my [00:58:59] Jeff: [00:59:00] Awesome. [00:59:00] Christina: Yeah, I just installed it. This is very cool. [00:59:04] Brett: uh, who wants, who wants to go. [00:59:05] Victor: Okay. Uh, mine’s mine’s easy. Everybody knows this probably already. Uh, but I’ve, I’ve just been amazed at how rock solid it’s been through all of these like iCloud sync issues that people have had other app makers. And I’ve had a lot of issues with this. Um, but somehow they get it right. And I phone iPad and Mac apps all work brilliantly. [00:59:27] They work through the company VPN and all this other thing. Um, things, uh, Yeah. [00:59:34] And I, I was just telling my son, who’s about to go to college. So, you know, if you want something that’s going to organize your workload, it’s actually pretty good because I liked the way that they have areas and they have projects. [00:59:46] So it’s sort of distinct as to where that, cause you know, not everything fits into a project, it might be in it, you know, and then, and then you can create the sequences and all it’s a really does a great job of just, I dunno. And once you become a power user, it’s it. [01:00:00] It’s ridiculous. So Yeah. [01:00:01] I love it. [01:00:04] Jeff: Things is so great. I used it in the earliest days and I loved it. And then somehow I moved over to not somehow I moved over to OmniFocus, which is still if I’m going to open an app for, um, project management, that’s where I’ll go. But I always get in there. I’m like, this is too much. Uh, and things always just felt so simple. [01:00:22] And, and, and it’s, man, it sounds like it’s really held up. Huh? That’s great. Awesome. [01:00:29] Christina: Okay, so, all right. We’ve talked a lot about like launch bar and Alfred and apps like that over the years. And I’ve been an Alfred user for a really long time, but I recently discovered, uh, it’s been around for like a year, but, but I was late to the party. I discovered Raycast and Raycast is one of the launch apps kind of similar, you know, the Quicksilver type, but it is, um, a little bit different. [01:00:53] It kind of combines a bunch of different things. So it obviously is your launcher and you can, like, I have my map, [01:01:00] I’m testing it out. I’ve been testing it for the last week. So I actually mapped it to command. But you can, um, do it for, uh, uh, in any other key, key command to, and out of the box that comes with a lot of things that are installed automatically, but they also have a bunch of bunch of both extensions, um, that you can get from their store. [01:01:17] Um, but they also have like these ideas of like quick actions and, um, it it’s a little more complex than some of the other ones, but I really, really like it. Like for instance, there are there there’s a, there’s a brew command in, in re Cass where I can immediately just go to show out data, show installed, upgrade whatever the case may be. [01:01:37] It also will do window management, which is really nice. So you can set up your key bindings and like have like, you know, like, like control, like up, if you want it to, um, you know, put a window at the very top of your screen, you could do that. And, um, I, uh, I’m, I’m I’m, uh, uh, or, or option up rather, I should say. [01:01:55] Um, and, and kind of control, like where things will go. I really, really like it. [01:02:00] Um, I don’t know if I’m. Switch to it full time from the stuff that I’ve been using for years, but it’s free. I think that their business plan is they’re going to be selling this as like a, uh, a teams tool, but they say that it’s going to be free for individuals. [01:02:14] Um, they use TypeScript, uh, for, um, doing their, um, uh, extensions and I really, really like it. So, so Ray cast, uh, recast.com. This is, this is my, uh, my gratitude. Uh, definitely if you’ve never used any of these types of things, um, give it a shot at also a snippets in it. Um, kind of doing it, a text expander type thing. [01:02:37] Um, again, it’s not going to be as advanced as text expander. You can still use that, but it has that, um, functionality built into it too. And I’m just, I’m a big fan. So, so, so recast is, is my pick. [01:02:50] Brett: It’s a hard sell, right. To get someone who’s, who’s totally invested in say, launch bar or Alfred and has been for years, even if [01:03:00] something comes along that has like potential to be better. It’s it’s hard. Like I [01:03:05] Christina: It is hard. It is hard, right? Which is why I’ve been doing it for a week. And the reason I’m talking about it is because I’ve actually found a lot of things in it that I like a lot better. And I don’t know if I’m going to be able to switch to a full-time, but I really like it. And a bunch of people have built things for it. [01:03:18] Like the thing is I think that the thing that makes a lot of these tools is the ecosystem. And so far, the ecosystem is really strong and people are building cool things with it. And it has a lot of stuff that you would in the past, like with Alfred, at least you’d need to install a bunch of workflows to get going. [01:03:34] A lot of those things are just out of the box. So if you’re new to these things, I definitely think that it’s worth a look. If you are coming from somebody else, it might take a little more time and you might, it might not replace it for you, but there is some stuff that I really do feel like is really nice. [01:03:50] Brett: Nice [01:03:51] Jeff: just downloaded it. I’m very curious to try it. I am an Alfred person in, uh, where that’s, where I come down. That’s the, that’s the Jersey I [01:03:58] Christina: Yeah. Like I said, I still had [01:04:00] offered, installed and, and, and I’m, I, you know, I’m not, and I haven’t made any like decisions, but I’m, I am actually really impressed. So [01:04:08] Jeff: Awesome. Cool. [01:04:09] Brett: launch party for life. Go ahead, Jeff. [01:04:13] Jeff: Launched bar for life. Uh, Brett has that tattooed across his back. Um, I, I, I am really glad it’s the weekend because I’ve been wasting time when I should have been working on setlist FM, which is a site that has always looked a little too spammy for my tastes. But I realized like once I started searching shows I’d been to and realized I could just be like, I was at that show and then have a list of shows I was at and they have an API. [01:04:43] Um, I was like, oh my God, I can’t stop. And so I did have to stop myself like more than once this week. Cause you know, you’re stressed. You’re like, well, I could, I didn’t put that one concert in yet. Let’s go see if they’ve got that in there. Um, and it was fun to just, I barely got [01:05:00] started. Uh, and, and there’s already like 70 concerts in there, right? [01:05:03] Like it’s just like really fun to, it’s really fun to have my memory kind of, um, Jogged. And one of the things I’ve been doing is only done. So two shows so far, but, uh, I I’ve been bookmarking the shows in Pinboard and then writing a little one paragraph review of the show as I remembered it. Um, and one that I put in was I saw PJ Harvey on September 13th, 2001 in Chicago. [01:05:29] And so it’s two days after September 11th, when you kind of like, nobody really knew what to do, like do we do anything at all? Um, and, and the idea that she kept the show was super kind of interesting to me because I was like, all right, well, I’ll go to the show. It, we were also messed up. The whole band wore black and they, they only mentioned September 11th in the beginning and the most passing way, which is like, we all need music tonight. [01:05:54] And they started with this song, the, this mess we’re in which like had a whole [01:06:00] different kind of. Resonance. And it was incredible because it just, this is so corny to say, but it actually, it was a big theater and it actually felt like the band needed that music as much as we needed that music. And it didn’t feel exactly like a concert, right? [01:06:15] Like it was such a powerful, the other one that I had forgotten about is I saw Slayer before I was a fan. And, uh, and I had this memory of, I was like, I don’t know this band, but I’ll try the mosh pit as a teenager. And so I go into the mosh pit realizing that. Uh, a real like grownups mosh pit, because the first guy I bang into has like an eight inch leather wristband with like common house nails, shooting, outwards all around it. [01:06:42] I’m like, you know, I’m gonna sit this one out and wait for anthrax. Um, but anyway, it’s been super fun to like, the other thing I’ve been doing is I, because that’s called setlist FM because the usually or often have the set list for a show that you went to, sometimes they don’t. Um, but I’ve been making [01:07:00] playlists, uh, in, uh, in apple music of the set lists of shows that just were really wonderful for me. [01:07:05] And it’s super cool to look at a set list and think like, like one of the, I saw Soundgarden open for skid row and, and you could, you could really tell him the set list that they were like, it was like at the beginning of their bad motor finger kind of touring time. So they were just not that big yet. [01:07:23] And you could tell that they were like the picking a set list where they’re like, This should work for the skid row people. Right. Anyway, I love it. So let’s step out that FM curse, Christina, what were you gonna say? [01:07:33] Christina: no, I was going to say, I found, I can’t remember the name of it now we’ll have to go back and look because I’m also a big fan and I found an iOS app at one point that would let you create like a Spotify or an apple music playlist based on the set list and, and, and, um, which, which it was. [01:07:48] Jeff: Oh, maybe that’s something I can do with my new, with my, uh, my blossoming API skills. [01:07:53] Christina: totally. [01:07:55] Brett: I used to always steal the set list. Anytime I went to like a smaller show, like at the [01:08:00] warehouse in Wisconsin, uh, always like that was my souvenir. Just grabbed the set list off the stage at the end of the show [01:08:08] Jeff: yeah, yeah. You were that guy. Awesome. Victor, it’s been a pleasure having you. I mean, I know you’ve done this podcast before. I just never met you and [01:08:18] Victor: that was fun. [01:08:18] Jeff: with you. [01:08:19] Victor: Great to meet you. [01:08:20] Jeff: Yeah. [01:08:21] Brett: Yeah, thanks a lot. Victor, [01:08:23] Christina: Thank you, Victor. Always. Good to see you and good to have you on [01:08:26] Victor: Same. Yeah. [01:08:28] Jeff: I want all three of you to get some sleep. [01:08:31] Brett: get some sleep. [01:08:33] Christina: get some sleep boys.

Brett and Jeff take over for a week and discuss hiking, sharing one’s personal life, and the past and future of bookmarking. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Show Links Queensryche – Jet City Woman Black Flag – Black Coffee discoverlexproject.org Bunch Govee Immersive TV setup Pinboard.in Spillo Pins Kite – Jonny Boy Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 287 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Brett and Jeff show. Uh, formerly known as overtired, technically still overtired, but we gave Christine the week off and we did not bring in a guest. So it’s me, Brett Terpstra here with Jeff Severns Guntzel how’s it going, Jeff? [00:00:21] Jeff: Good gave Christina a week off, [00:00:24] Brett: We did. We offered [00:00:25] Jeff: up here in our corner. Offices are overtired corner offices. You know, I’ve been noticing maybe you need a little time off. It’s none of my business. [00:00:36] Brett: just give me your gun and your badge and here letting you go for the week. [00:00:43] Jeff: We missed you, Christina. [00:00:46] Brett: Yeah. Christina has shit to do, you know, as happens on occasion more often to her than to us. she lives, she lives a more, she’s more of a jet setting lifestyle than, than either [00:01:00] of us currently have to be fair to [00:01:03] Jeff: a jet city woman to quote the queen drag song. [00:01:07] Mental Health Corner [00:01:07] Brett: So, Hey, uh, that brings us to some, uh, uh, mental health corner. If you will, uh, Jeff, uh, how you doing [00:01:15] Jeff: I’m doing. Good. I’m drinking black coffee because I’m on the whole 30, [00:01:19] Brett: at the wall? I know [00:01:20] Jeff: uh, and stare at the wall? Yes, I uh, I was, I was like retaining all kinds of water because of a medication and the, and the, the advice is like, Higher potassium, lower sodium, like whatever else I’m like, oh, I used to do the whole 30 diet, like every January just to sort of, um, helped me to pull back. [00:01:43] Cause I’m, I, I don’t do moderation, um, with almost anything, but I can do like a really strict framework and, and it helps me to just sort of like reset and it also just reminds me that I can actually, I can actually make decisions that helped me. [00:02:00] Um, and that. [00:02:01] is just like a really great thing. It’s anyway, this is, I’m doing the whole 30 right now. [00:02:04] Um, and, and that means like I’m not having any dairy, so I’m drinking black coffee, which is fucking disgusting. What am I a cop? It’s not, I don’t like, I do not like black coffee, [00:02:14] Brett: man, I drank black coffee every morning. [00:02:17] Jeff: I, thought, I thought I could, I could get with it. Instead, I just nurse like the same two cups all day long, anyway, not that interesting, just to say that that’s, um, helping how I feel overall and helping my mental health. [00:02:30] I also got a re up on a steroid shot in my lower back. So I’m feeling like a brand new man, um, want to emphasize, cannot emphasize enough that steroids are not just for baseball players. Everybody should try them. Um, you can really just like change your life and it has for me in my back. Um, and yeah, and otherwise, I don’t know, like the medication balance feels right right now. [00:02:53] It’s been really nice weather out. We’ve been able to start gardening. Um, and that’s really exciting. [00:03:00] So I’m feeling pretty good, Brett, how about you? [00:03:02] Brett: I, I would like to point out and, and our listeners don’t know this yet, but that mental health corner update took you three edits. Which I feel is indicative of a mental health state. Like we had to, we had to, we had to do that three times for you to, and you said basically the same thing every time, but you kept stopping yourself and saying, Nope, can we edit this? [00:03:32] And, and our listeners are hearing the finished product. Our listeners are hearing your best. You’re they’re hearing what [00:03:39] Jeff: move. There’s warm milk on a banana peel. [00:03:44] Brett: but do you, do you feel like that’s a sign of you being okay. [00:03:50] Jeff: I think, you know what it is, it’s, it’s actually just a sign of something that I’m still getting used to, which is like, how do I actually want to answer the question in the [00:04:00] context of a podcast? Um, and it’s something that I’m really learning, doing this podcast. It’s like, it’s not that I want to be dishonest. [00:04:08] Um, but I don’t owe anybody my full honesty either. Um, you know what I mean? Like I, and so, but so what I’m trying to do is to be, is to pick things that are true and be as sort of descriptive as is useful about those things. Knowing, of course, just like in any social environment, there are things that I’m also not saying, or that I’m, I’m kind of, there are roads that I could kind of start to go down and think in a conversation, you kind of can’t do anything about it, but in a podcast you can be like, Hey, can I try that again? [00:04:42] And, and for me, that’s actually what that’s about. It’s something I. I fret over sometimes, um, as I’m getting used to being a podcaster, um, just knowing, knowing that there is already just in the, whatever, [00:05:00] how many episodes we’ve done together, um, quite a bit of information that otherwise would not have been available to anybody, um, except maybe my family, um, and my closest friends. [00:05:11] And now it’s available to really anybody who decides for some reason or another to click on that podcast. And so I think what was going on for me was there were a couple of little paths that I started going down. I’m like, you know, no, I don’t actually want to go down that path just yet talked about this a few episodes ago where it was like, you know, why did I not talk about being bipolar earlier? Um, and that I wanted to be Sure [00:05:39] that I didn’t lock myself into a narrative. Um, and so those are the two things that I think about a lot, being a podcast that talks about mental health one, you know, am I, am I doing this in such a way that I’m rocking myself, just myself as my own audience into a narrative and, and to, um, [00:06:00] in my, in my sharing something that actually, I’d rather just kind of keep over here. [00:06:04] Um, and, and then, uh, so anyway, that that’s me. [00:06:09] Brett: Yeah. Okay. The, all this, all of this makes sense. I will tell you that I have learned from 20 years of being a fairly public figure that. Especially when it comes to podcasts, when it comes to recorded audio. Yes. When you say something and put it out on the internet, it is permanent, but it’s also not showing up in Google searches and only people who care enough to dig in. [00:06:43] We’ll learn the things that you’ve share. And by in large, I have gotten more, I have made more friends from being. Just brutally open about my entire life. I have made [00:07:00] more friends that way than I’ve made enemies. And, and I just, I’m not, I, I’m not here to tell you how to present yourself on a podcast. I’m just saying that for me, like I can’t help, but I just tell people shit, you talk to me at a party. [00:07:20] I will tell you all kinds of stuff that you didn’t ask for. And, uh, and, and, uh, as far as public internet availability goes, that’s only bitten me a couple times. You can get away with a lot of shit. [00:07:35] Jeff: Yeah. [00:07:36] I guess, but that’s different in a way, right? Cause like, for me, it’s not about, um, it’s not about like, oh, I said that thing, but thankfully no one will find it because of the format at all. Right. Um, it’s really, it’s really just more so like, um, when You say something into a microphone that goes out to an audience, you like send a little piece of yourself out into the world, right. [00:07:59] And [00:08:00] that little piece of yourself that you sent out into the world, you like Justin up, you’re still like a paper doll. You dressed it? up, how You, wanted to dress it up. Right. you gave it eyes, you made it matters that or happy or whatever you sent it out. Like that is for me, the way I feel about that stuff is like, I feel that that piece is, is out there. [00:08:16] I feel that that piece of me is out there roaming around like I’m generally conscious of the fact. Yeah, [00:08:22] Brett: that you said it and put it out there. [00:08:24] Jeff: exactly. [00:08:25] Brett: I don’t, that’s different from. [00:08:27] Jeff: Yeah. [00:08:27] So I’m, I mean, I remember everything that I have shared so far on these podcasts. I also feel that way. I mean, it’s a, it’s a cousin of a thing that happens to me in social situations, which is like, not, not as bad anymore thanks to therapy, but like I used to leave like a dinner party and, and just start analyzing everything. [00:08:48] I said, like, what did I say? I think I have too much space was, I was like too rough about this. And I really consider that maybe this person had an experience that the, you know, like I would just like obsessively, uh, review the tapes. [00:09:00] Um, and, and that’s like a cousin of this thing, but it’s not as neurotic. [00:09:05] Right. [00:09:06] Brett: So how was your memory? Like, do you consider yourself to have a good memory? [00:09:13] Jeff: My memory is terrible weirdly, but [00:09:15] Brett: Yeah, no, me too. Like, and I don’t remember half the shit I’ve said, even on this podcast, let alone elsewhere on the internet. If it weren’t for the searchability of my blog, I wouldn’t, the fact is I write about things. I learn on my blogs so that I can find them on Google later when I forgotten how to do them. [00:09:37] Like, I don’t remember coming home from a party like my partner or whoever I’m traveling with can say, why did you say this to this person? And I will have already forgotten that the conversation happened. So what you’re describing right now sounds like a, uh, a memory that I could only aspire to. [00:09:58] Jeff: Uh, Yeah. [00:09:58] except you know [00:10:00] how people sometimes say like, uh, like for me, um, I remember the things that I like the way I can remember certain things I wish I could apply elsewhere. So like the extent to which I remember details and dates from, from the first, uh, the first full book I run on my own, uh, which was hammer the gods, the very falsified biography of led Zeppelin. [00:10:24] Like the extent to which I can remember dates and details from that book, including of course the notorious ones, but like, can’t remember, uh, certain really important things about like a research paper I read last week is like super, super frustrating, [00:10:38] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, I get that memory is for ADHD people, especially memory is a tough thing. [00:10:48] Jeff: But, and I want to ask you about your mental health. I wanted to say, there’s something you brought up that my wife and I were talking about the other day, which is like the one thing about the podcast medium it’s, you know, we’re probably not too [00:11:00] far. I would imagine from like decent enough AI, that transcripts are just generated and searchable of all these podcasts. [00:11:06] Right. And so all this stuff that you were like, Yeah. [00:11:08] nobody see all of a sudden it’s like, Jesus Christ. Now when people search my name, all they see is like my bullshit. And about this or this, this, I, I feel like the whole kind of John Rodrick being dad phenomenon, not phenomenon, but like the incident, the, the, the like, very like, Um, well, it is what it is. [00:11:28] Uh, I feel like if that had happened somehow on the podcast, on Roderick on the line and not on Twitter, it would be. Likely passed by without notice, but because it was on Twitter, um, it became quite a very serious thing with very serious ramifications. And like that is to me, a little bit of a chilling, uh, a chilling distinction to, to think of that fact. [00:11:52] Right. I think like, well, I get why, well, I mean a situation one day where it’s like, wow, how’d I just said that on the [00:12:00] podcast, you know, anyway, [00:12:02] Brett: Um, duck, duck go unfollowed me on Twitter. And I don’t know what I said or did, [00:12:10] Jeff: that’s [00:12:11] Brett: for a long time, duck, duck go has followed me. There’s a bang Terp. There’s a shortcut for searching my website on duct deco. You can type exclamation point T E R P and then anything you want. And it will search my website from duck, duck go, and they just unfollowed me. [00:12:29] And I, maybe my bang Terp search is going to go away too. I dunno what I do. [00:12:35] Jeff: Wow. I won. I’m sorry. [00:12:37] Brett: post that MRX dot I S T was available as a domain for like $16. And I posted this would be a great way to set up a custom URL shortener that would trigger all of your conservative friends and, um, immediately some company from Estann bowl, parked it with [00:13:00] GoDaddy. [00:13:00] Jeff: Wow, [00:13:01] Brett: Marxist is no longer available, [00:13:05] Jeff: man. Also, it’s always good to know the decision of the hosting company. They wouldn’t go. Daddy [00:13:11] Brett: right? As soon as I saw it was parked with GoDaddy, I knew it [00:13:15] Jeff: can pick up the phone. Give me GoDaddy quick. Daddy. It’s [00:13:19] Brett: So anyway, my mental health. [00:13:21] Jeff: Yes, please. Yes, please. [00:13:24] Brett: Oh my God. I’m still stable. I’m still stable. I’ve had like a couple nights where, uh, I, I. I couldn’t sleep and I’m immediately my mind thought, oh shit, I’m having a manic episode. And I’m looking at, you know, five plus days without sleep, and this is how it begins. [00:13:45] And then around three or 4:00 AM I fall asleep and everything goes back to normal. And, uh, overall, I, I continue to be stable as far as bipolar goes, which gives me plenty of time to think [00:14:00] about my ADHD and the fact that Vyvanse is not the ideal way for me to treat my ADHD, but it is the ideal companion to my bipolar disorder. [00:14:13] And like, I have to continually, you know, how like married couples say, we continually make the decision to say I do. And like, you know, we’ve been married for 30 years and every day we’ve made the decision to say I do. And for me, it’s I have been stable for. For months now. And every day I have to make the decision to stay on, uh, an ADHD medication that is not terribly effective for me. [00:14:44] Um, but, but make that trade off and it’s working out, it really is. It is. I have been going on hikes. Uh, we Wynnona in [00:14:59] Jeff: have good [00:15:00] hikes over there. [00:15:01] Brett: Yeah. W we have good hikes in Wynnona like we have 16 miles of trail systems just down the road for me and, uh, Garvin Heights. But we have been traveling over the river. We live right on the border and we have been traveling into Wisconsin and exploring the DNR managed land that Wisconsin has to offer. [00:15:27] And, uh, we have found that. It’s kind of it’s right off the highway. There’s this little, you know, the brown sign that. Before any like a government agency park, um, there’s a little brown sign. You turn off the road and there’s like a road. It’s not a trail. It’s an actual, like you could drive a truck down it. [00:15:50] And it’s a road that goes deep into these wetlands, about two miles in, into, uh, wetlands [00:16:00] and forest and, and lake. And it is. Just an amazing hike. And we have seen Trumpers swans, and we have seen, uh, goslings and geese and we’ve identified probably 40 different bird species. And, uh, there’s like little landings where you can step out and see like schools of catfish do catfish school. [00:16:25] All I know is it’s a bunch of catfish. Um, and it’s, it’s a crazy fun nature walk and we see something new every time we do it. And, and it has been something we’ve, we’ve been doing it in the mornings when it’s very unpopulated because we take our dog with us and our dog does not get along with other dogs. [00:16:46] So the lower, the likelihood that we’ll run into another person with a dog, the easier our hike will be. So we go, we go early mornings. We go at like seven, 7:30 [00:17:00] AM and we walk, uh, between one and three miles. Of this just wetland hike. And it has been so good for me. Like my brain is just, it’s happy all day after, after an outing like that, I get a day even maybe two days of just like endorphin high from these nature walks. [00:17:23] They’re amazing. [00:17:24] Jeff: Brett. This is an amazing update. This is an amazing. [00:17:27] mental, mental health corner. [00:17:29] Brett: Thanks. Thanks. [00:17:32] Jeff: I’m so happy for you. [00:17:34] Brett: Yeah. Do you, what, where do you hike? Do you hike? [00:17:37] Jeff: Yeah. we, well, we do hike. Um, there are a few just sort of smaller parks, uh, that have good hiking trails around here. And then there’s also like an Arboretum. Hello, Chanhassen. Uh, [00:17:51] Brett: Oh, we have, we have a listener in Chanhassen. [00:17:54] Jeff: I know. That’s what I’m saying. Uh, there’s uh, an incredible, the university of Minnesota has this incredible Arboretum [00:18:00] and you can just kind of go there any month and you’re going to see something different. [00:18:03] It’s blooming, whatever else. And so, uh, we’ll go there for hikes. Yeah. I like hikes, although for the last few months, because of my back, I couldn’t walk like two blocks. And so it’s been amazing to just go out and, and do that again. And again, he bought any bogs on this particular [00:18:17] Brett: my God. Yeah. This like half this walk is Mo so, so my property, we own about three acres of land in when no-no, that goes from bluff. You’re familiar with. Like side of a very small mountain, right? We go from bluff down to forest land, down to wetland, including a marsh and a bog. And then if you make it through that, you get down to a Creek and it’s gorgeous all the way down. [00:18:52] And our project for the summer is to build it over the years. This has gotten like trees have [00:19:00] fallen and brushes gotten overgrown. There’s even a little pond on our property. And with tons of like frogs and algae blooms and everything, [00:19:11] Jeff: uh, [00:19:12] Brett: it’s gotten hard to navigate even in winter when everything’s dead and frozen over, like it’s still hard to get down to the Creek. [00:19:20] So our project for the summers to blaze a trail, [00:19:24] Jeff: Ooh. [00:19:24] Brett: And we are, we’re picking up a chainsaw next weekend or this coming weekend, and we’re going to be, we’re going to be machetes and chainsaws and, and laying down logs and gravel and just building a trail through all of this wetland and marsh and bog to get from our house to the Creek and see everything in between. [00:19:48] Jeff: I know this is obvious, but it bears repeating careful with that chainsaw [00:19:55] Brett: So I learned, I, [00:19:56] Jeff: when you’re using it for brush clearing and [00:19:59] Brett: we got, we got [00:20:00] some rough training. I learned about what’s it called the kickback region of the, of the chainsaw. [00:20:05] Jeff: yeah. [00:20:05] Brett: Like if you touch a hard surface with this part of the chainsaw, it will fly back into your forehead and embedded itself there. Um, [00:20:15] Jeff: you don’t want that. [00:20:16] Brett: no, that is a negative. That is that’s considered. [00:20:20] By and large, a bad thing. Um, so yeah, so I’ve, I’ve done, I’ve gotten a little training. We’re going to do some safety courses. Uh, we’re getting on electric chains. Uh, [00:20:31] Jeff: Wait, whoa. How far are you going? You got like a hundred foot, 200 foot, 300 foot extension cord. [00:20:38] Brett: no it’s battery power, dude. [00:20:41] Jeff: Oh, electric for me is like a, yeah, I get it. I’m very old, very old. [00:20:50] Brett: Yeah. [00:20:50] Jeff: That’s awesome. That’s exciting. And [00:20:52] Brett: You know that they have cars that work without being plugged in now [00:20:55] Jeff: Shut the fuck up. [00:21:00] [00:21:02] Brett: so, [00:21:02] Jeff: Um, yeah. [00:21:04] Brett: how have your dreams been? We were talking before the show a little bit about, about dreams and we both said let’s save it for the show. [00:21:12] Jeff: Yeah. [00:21:13] Brett: So let’s, let’s talk about dreams. [00:21:16] Jeff: Yeah, so my teams have been great, uh, thanks to a drug called Prazosin. Um, and I had, so I am known for my terrible dreams. Um, and that’s been true for about 20 plus years, um, since having some very specific experiences in war zones. Um, my dreams. [00:21:40] have been just horrible and, and bloody and violent and, and, and, and gory and all the time, man, all the time. [00:21:49] And, um, About a month ago after I spend more, it was after the thing in Ukraine started, but then also A friend of mine went over there as a journalist [00:22:00] and, and it was close enough to things that, you know, it kind of triggered my own memories and worry and, and vigilance and all that stuff. And I started having dreams that were, um, worse than they ever had been more violent than they ever had been more gory. [00:22:14] And I did not think that was possible. I mean, I did not, I would wake up and it was just chilling. And, uh, and so I, I mentioned to my medication manager, uh, and big Joel and a psychiatric nurse practitioner, um, not big Juul. I just thought, you know, sounds like a good medication manager and suggested something that’s used for veterans a lot, uh, apparently around nightmares, um, this drug presents and, and, and man from the time I started taking. [00:22:47] I have not had a single nightmare, which I mostly have nightmares. I have not had a single nightmare and my teams are so delightfully fucking stupid. Like I was going to go to [00:23:00] a, I was going to go to a baseball game with friend of the show, future guests, Danny glamour. Uh, and I had a dream that, um, before the game that I was picking out a baseball cap for him, and it was just a extra large baseball cap with a really huge bill that just said, grand slam, uh, no, [00:23:17] Doesn’t have a big head. [00:23:18] And so, uh, if you could take it, you could take it up with them, but it’s just like my dreams. Now. I remember them all. They said maybe I wouldn’t remember them, but they’re just so stupid and nothing happens. And it’s just like, I love this dream life. So I’m, I’m dreaming, I’m dreaming nothing. And I’m dreaming nothing real good. [00:23:38] Yeah. [00:23:39] Brett: Well, I, I generally, by and large, uh, I, I assume mostly because of my medication, I have pretty mundane dreams that I immediately forget when I wake up and rarely have I woken up, like occasionally, like I’ll wake up at say 3:00 AM and I’ll be in the middle of a good dream. [00:24:00] And I’ll remember wanting to fall asleep again to get back to the dream. [00:24:05] But later on, I won’t remember what the dream was, but last weekend I, I went to, so I use one of those seven day pill boxes with the little like flip tops [00:24:21] Jeff: Oh, I’m down with it. [00:24:23] Brett: and usually. [00:24:26] Jeff: Got one in the house. [00:24:27] Brett: If I’m gonna, if I’m gonna run out of a pill within those seven days or immediately after I put the empty bottle somewhere where I, where else see it and remember to call in the refill because my insurance won’t let me call it in a week in advance. [00:24:45] So I got to wait until it’s like a day or two before it [00:24:49] Jeff: where this story’s gone. [00:24:51] Brett: So somehow my empty bottle didn’t make it to the countertop where I would usually remember to [00:25:00] call in my meds. So I, I finish what’s in the pill box and I go to grab one night’s worth out of the pill bottle and it’s empty and it’s after the pharmacy is closed. [00:25:14] And this is a pill that if you suddenly go off it, you can have seizures. [00:25:21] Jeff: Oh, Jesus. [00:25:23] Brett: And it takes, there’s a titration period, but missing a single dose can fuck up. This is it’s Lamictal and it’s not, it’s not a hardcore drug, but like suddenly stopping it can have dire consequences. So my brain freaks out a little and yeah, I can make it through a night. [00:25:45] Um, but I also get these like full body. Um, I don’t know if you’ve ever been through withdrawal, uh, anything. [00:25:56] Jeff: guess not from like street drugs. [00:25:59] Brett: Yeah, well like [00:26:00] nicotine, alcohol, heroin, I don’t care. Like there’s this full body. It starts with this like full body skin crawling feeling. And you get that when you miss a dose of Lamictal. So I’ve got that. [00:26:16] And I just have to, I just have to close my eyes and try to sleep through it because maybe it’s Saturday night. No, it’s Friday or Saturday night. And I don’t know if the, when I call in the med, it says I can’t get any till Tuesday because of the holiday weekend. Um, so I’m, I’m kinda, I’m freaking out. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to get anymore, but I go to sleep anyway. [00:26:44] And I managed to fall asleep and I have a really rough night of sleep, but I have really good dreams. I, so the dream I most remember is I own an [00:27:00] underground music store in Japan. I don’t know where this came from. I don’t know why this would be a desire of mine, but you know that no one and the on the podcast on the podcast can see this, but you you’re sitting in an orange room. [00:27:15] Jeff: I sure am. [00:27:16] Brett: in the dream, I was in an orange, like cubicle room with a swimming pool. And in the middle of the swimming pool, there was a ladder that went up into the ceiling. And when you got to put into the ceiling, there was me with, uh, maybe 50 rows of vinyl records of Japanese punk, hip hop and metal. And, and I’m just sitting there and I am deejaying and I am selling these records to all Japanese customers. [00:27:49] And like, I don’t have like any strong attachment nor have I ever been to Japan. But this was all in Japan with Japanese customers. And I was [00:28:00] this white guy selling Japanese punk hip hop in metal to exclusively Japanese customers in this. Record shop. You could only get through, get to through an orange room with a swimming pool and a ladder. [00:28:15] And it’s stuck with me. Like I can still see [00:28:18] Jeff: you a towel you want to look around? That’s wonderful. I love it. I love it I love it. That’s great. Brett. Wait, hold on now. [00:28:27] Brett: I did the next morning I called the pharmacy and the med that the computer had told me wouldn’t be available until Tuesday. They’re like, oh yeah, we got that filled. You can pick it up now. So the next day I was before noon, I was able to take the missed dose from the night before and then get back on schedule. [00:28:47] So everything’s been fine since [00:28:49] Jeff: That’s good. That’s that’s excellent. Um, and also I really, I, I really I’m imagining what you just described. You just described as like a um, [00:29:00] the backstory for a character that got cut from Tokyo drift. [00:29:07] Brett: It honestly, if, if I had to put it into a movie, it would have been in a Cura, [00:29:13] Jeff: Mm. Okay. [00:29:14] Brett: the old anime classic. It was, it was definitely a record store from, it was like a Cura mixed with blade runner. [00:29:23] Jeff: Nice. All right, listen, you need to do a sponsor read. Uh, and before you do, I just want to clear something up, you sit them in an orange room. It’s actually exotic blossom, [00:29:34] Brett: I, I didn’t want to say that out loud. I didn’t know how you feel about [00:29:39] Jeff: is also my street name. All right. All right. All right. Speaking of blossoms. [00:29:48] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:29:48] Brett: Hey, you guys know how we love the brake and protection that simply safe home security gives you, but it’s not always outside forces that you need simply say protection from [00:30:00] this is Terry story, a simply safe. Terry was away for the weekend for her daughter’s wedding. The morning of the big day, she got a call from simply safe, twenty four seven professional monitoring center. [00:30:13] And they let her know that her system had detected water in her basement. In moments like this time is critical because even an inch of flooding can cause more than $25,000 in damages. Thankfully, simply safe had detected the water just moments after the leaking and started after talking to simply save Terry called her neighbor, who quickly turned the water in her home off before the flooding got bad, protecting against floods is just one of the reasons that 4 million people trust their home protection to simply safe with a comprehensive, simply safe system and 24 7 professional monitoring. You can have someone always looking out for you just like Terry plants costs under a dollar a day with no [00:31:00] long-term contracts or hidden fees ever. You can customize the perfect system for your home and just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. [00:31:13] Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/over tired. That’s S I M P L I S a F E simply safe.com/overtired. [00:31:29] A Decent Proposal [00:31:29] Jeff: I’m looking at the time and I want to, I have something in here. It says Jeff has a screencast idea to pitch to Brett. I’m gonna try it out. I’m gonna try it out on you. I’m going to pitch this to use a live pitch session [00:31:41] Brett: okay. Screencast, screencast ideas. Jeff, go. [00:31:48] Jeff: A couple of years ago, I, I hired Brett to come on and work on this project. I am working on called the lived experience project, and it’s a largely, um, researched [00:32:00] based project around, um, kids’ experiences in the juvenile justice system, um, with a definite sort of abolitionist bent. [00:32:08] Um, and there’s just all sorts of stuff that, uh, that I was doing all the time that I thought, man, having somebody like Brett interpreter could really help me with this. And so I was like, Hey, Brit Turkstra, could you really help me with this? And we started working together. We, it was a few things, right? [00:32:26] You were, you were building the website, you built our website, discover Lex project.com or.org. Right. Um, we were doing some, we were, we were doing some initial sort of automation and workflow stuff. Um, and then we started, uh, we started working on sort of a sort of suite of tools that helped, uh, to process interviews and transcripts anyways, blah, blah, blah. [00:32:51] So one of the things that I asked Brett to do early on asked you to do early on with, I was like, Hey, you know, we’re looking at code together. [00:33:00] Um, I have a ton of questions as we go. Can I just record, um, the screen and make up my own little private screencast with this so that I can go back, not just to what you were saying, but kind of see what we were looking. [00:33:13] In the code. And I love to doing that in Brent. I recently found those recordings. They’re actually like little awesome podcasts, just like coding happening on the screen. Um, and little delightful moments would happen. Like, you’d be like, wow, let me just Google this. Cause I’m not sure what to do about this and you’d go, oh, that’s a post I wrote, uh, solving this problem. [00:33:36] Brett: That’s what I’m talking about. [00:33:37] Jeff: I found the whole thing really delightful. And I’ve, I’ve had this thing in my head. I think I may have mentioned it to you a long, long time ago, but I wanna, I want to see if I want to see if he’ll go for it. So you’re working on bunch bunches. Fantastic. Um, Bunche is pretty difficult to explain, which is funny because it’s actually quite simple, um, in its execution, right. [00:33:57] You can make it as complicated as you want, but [00:34:00] it’s like, so like wonderfully elegant. Right? And so here’s, here’s what I want to, here’s what I want to propose. I want to propose that you and I get together. Throw, you know, your computer screen up on the, up on the recording. And we just, we work our way through some key parts of bunch. [00:34:18] Right. And I ask you questions and it’s like, almost like an interview slash screencast. Right. That demonstrates what it can do, but also brings in some of the story of, of, you know, like a bunch has a great story. I just feel like you, you, you, you started to create it so long ago. Right. And then all of a sudden, like, what is it? [00:34:35] You, two years ago you started putting tons of energy into it. Right. And ever since then, it’s been almost impossible to keep up like you and I would, would get, I have one of our kind of weekly meetings and you’d be like, so you’re not going to fucking believe what I just put in a bunch. And like, it’s true. [00:34:50] I didn’t fucking believe why wouldn’t a bunch. It’s like, oh my God. And I just would love to create something that has some of that energy, because there’s so much. [00:35:00] With you and developing that app, I’ve had, I’ve been sort of blessed to be able to see the Bret end of things. And there’s so many times when you’re just kind of giddy about something you’ve added the bunch. [00:35:11] And I don’t think there’s any other way to reflect that. [00:35:14] Brett: there are features in bunch that were entirely because of you [00:35:19] Jeff: Oh, [00:35:20] Brett: where you would be like, you’d be in a meeting, it’d be like, well, so here’s what I want to do with bunch. And I would say, well, it can’t do that. And then the next week I would come back and say, so now it can do that. [00:35:33] Jeff: and these 16 other things. [00:35:34] Brett: That thing you needed to do? [00:35:36] Yeah, that would be fun. Cause I’ve done a few, I’ve done a few talks where I’ve talked about bunch and I’ve done a few like, uh, presentations with screencasts, um, where I’ve broken down, like basically a bunch and explained how a bunch works. But the idea of doing it as an interview of having someone [00:36:00] actually present, like here’s a problem, what’s the solution and do it in real time. [00:36:07] Yeah. That could be, that could be really compelling. [00:36:10] Jeff: Okay. Then we’ll schedule that. [00:36:12] Brett: Yeah. Let’s do it. [00:36:14] Jeff: Awesome. Cause I love Bunche so much [00:36:18] Brett: It will be thoroughly edited to [00:36:20] Jeff: oh yeah. Thoroughly [00:36:22] Brett: Google my own stuff. [00:36:24] Jeff: Well not without stuff. Won’t get cut, but that’s, that’s just amazing. [00:36:31] Brett: Yeah. [00:36:32] GrAPPtitude [00:36:32] Jeff: All right. All right. That’s my pitch. That’s my idea. Um, so I I’m realizing that I did not pick something for gratitude. Um, [00:36:42] Brett: Me either. [00:36:43] Jeff: but, but, but I want to actually, um, I want to have one more topic that might kind of lead us both to something we like. Okay. [00:36:53] So. Uh, this topic in here called Hey computer. Tell me what to do next with my life. [00:36:59] That’s a little [00:37:00] dramatic, but, um, recently I actually, by recently, I mean, for the last like three or four months, like I, I read, I look at hacker news at the end of each day. I think it’s just a wonderful curation of, of links that happen. I mean, just fully fabulous. Like it’s, it, it pretty much like, uh, scratches on my itches is that what I’m trying to see? [00:37:21] It’s just all my scratches. Um, and what I end up doing is, uh, a lot of times it’s just like, I just like throw stuff straight into, um, Instapaper or straight into Pinboard, um, depending on what it is or if it’s a GitHub repo, I star it. Right. And I have been in this. Sort of place of recognizing that, like my main project is very likely going to end at the end of this year, the thing that I’ve been doing for like five, six years. [00:37:49] And, uh, and that is most of my income. And most of my time, um, the other project I’m working on has a very short timeline and I’m thinking a lot [00:38:00] about like, what do I want to do next? But also what do I want to learn? Or like kind of, what do I want to do? Like a deep dive into, I like don’t exactly have an answer. [00:38:08] And then I realized that the answer probably lies in, uh, a full review of the things that I go in hacker news, where I kind of go, Oh, I’m going to throw that into Instapaper. I’m gonna throw that into Pinboard and I’m going to star that and get hub. Right. And so I’ve started. Gathering all of that stuff together and realizing how grateful I am for those three services and also how consistent they’ve been in my life for so long Instapaper Pinboard and, uh, and get hub. [00:38:39] And so I think, um, I’m going to, I’m personally going to choose Pinboard as something I’m just so incredible that we, we knew how much [00:38:47] Brett: soon as you said that, I’m like, maybe I’ll pick Pinboard, but [00:38:50] Jeff: we were well. And we knew how we do, we already knew he loved it. And then for a day it disappeared. Right. You remember that? And the entire world was just like, fuck, I did not. I, [00:39:00] honestly was shocked. [00:39:01] Brett: I posted a tweet with the IP address of pin boards. So because the DNS went down Pinboard, didn’t go down the DNS four, it went down and you could still get to it. If you added a host. Uh, in your slash et cetera. So I suppose file, you could add a direct IP address for Pinboard and still get to it. [00:39:26] I posted that on Twitter, got a ton of like retweets and even Pinboard Twitter account liked it. still have it in my host file to this day. [00:39:40] Jeff: Well, I, I love it so much for anybody that doesn’t know. It’s just, it’s a bookmarking service and it’s very, no-frills, it’s got [00:39:48] Brett: you remember delicious because it’s delicious plus. [00:39:52] Jeff: it’s delicious without design. And I actually love that. Um, it’s that kind of Craigslist thing of like, wow, this is never going to change. And that’s great [00:40:00] because it’s really two in the job. [00:40:01] And so, and also I pay for the, I pay the annual fee so that you can do a full text search of any of the bookmarks that are in there, which is just to me, like a kind of bananas feature. But, um, but right now, what I mean. [00:40:14] Brett: let’s explain that further. Cause it’s 25 bucks a year, but you can do a search that hits any texts and any page you’ve bookmarked at any point, like you don’t have to create descriptions or tags or anything. You basically have a private Google that only searches the links that you have intentionally bookmarked it’s insanely good. [00:40:42] Jeff: Which like as a feature, I couldn’t imagine getting really excited about a web app that that was the front, you know, the front facing feature. Right. But instead it’s just this kinda like little thing off to the side. If you want to pay a little money, you can do this. Um, and so the way I’m, I’m having it, tell me what to do next with my life. [00:40:59] It’s like, [00:41:00] I just kind of created one, one, uh, tag that will kind of hold all the things that I’m, I’m bookmarking. I have bookmark that I want to like speak back to me. And then as I tag, uh, as I tag them all individually, it’s forming its own kind of logic. And then I’m looking at that logic and going like, oh, well, clearly I would love to go deeper here. [00:41:21] You know? So anyway, Pinboard love, love you pin board. Thanks for not going away. [00:41:27] Brett: Yeah. Um, man, I should. So are we, is this crap now? [00:41:35] Jeff: Oh, Yeah, that was my gratitude mixed in with the topic C [00:41:39] Brett: Yeah, [00:41:40] Jeff: it into a topic [00:41:42] Brett: I, uh, I was going to do fantastic. I kind of, so there was an app called Spilo [00:41:52] Jeff: Spilo spelled. [00:41:53] Brett: S P I L L O [00:41:56] Jeff: Okay. [00:41:56] Brett: that worked with Pinboard to give [00:42:00] you a kind of newsreader approach to your pins on Pinboard and it fell into disrepair. It still works. And I still use it, but there is a newer, more modern app called pins. Um, and I will, I will link both of these, but, um, pins, like any of these apps give you basically a three. [00:42:31] Pane view with like your left pain, being your types of bookmarks, all on red, public, private on tag tagged, et cetera. And then the center column being the bookmarks that exists in any of those left column categories and your right column being a preview of the webpage. And Pinboard, as you mentioned in passing is very undesigned. [00:42:59] Uh, it [00:43:00] is not an ideal way to it. Isn’t absolutely ideal way to bookmark. Uh, the idea of delicious was it was a Yahoo property. If I recall correctly and it was [00:43:14] Jeff: But by the time of died, it was. [00:43:16] Brett: by the T it was designed for social bookmarking. Like you bookmark things for other people to see, and when Yahoo was sunset or when Yahoo sunset delicious. [00:43:29] Uh, Pinboard sprung up as antisocial bookmarking, where you had to opt in to sharing your bookmarks and everything by default was private. And, uh, it’s still like, I use it. I use it for discovery. I browse other people’s public bookmarks to see what they’re bookmarking, the, uh, web excursions posts that come out on Bret serpshaker.com are all driven, all driven [00:44:00] by Pinboard. [00:44:00] I just, when I add a bookmark to Pinboard, I can add a dot. Blog it tag and the dot makes the tag private. So it’s not, uh, people don’t see that tag on the, on the pin, but when I tagged something with that blog, it, when I get five of those collected, it puts out a post on my blog that lists, you know, five things that I’ve determined need to be blogged about and tagging is critical to the Pinboard experience, uh, pins, the more modern version of spillover. [00:44:42] Is a great way to browse and navigate, especially if you use Pinboard as a read later kind of service. If you use it as an Instapaper replacement, uh, an app like pins or Spilo is kind of necessary to [00:45:00] actually review the content you’ve bookmarked. So my, my pick for the week will be pins. [00:45:09] Jeff: I’ve been, I’ve been using pins throughout this process, [00:45:13] Brett: Yeah. [00:45:14] Jeff: although I also discovered an amazing little feature in Pinboard. So part of the reason I use pins is. Uh, let’s just say, there’s a problem where you might want to. I bookmark something and then I want to edit that bookmark, but I need to reference the actual page to edit it. [00:45:30] Like maybe I want to copies some texts that I put into the description, whatever. And, and with Pinboard I was always kind of going back and forth, but Pinboard, if you’re, if you’re has hasn’t has a little option called organize and it actually turns your, it turns the sort of Pinboard interface into a situation where there’s a browser on the, on the bottom, uh, like say three-fourths and the top quarter is actually just all open fields to edit your bookmarks. [00:45:59] So you can just [00:46:00] be looking at the page and editing it. It’s awesome. It’s not intuitive that it would be organized, but it’s a super cool little feature. That is one of the things I go to pin pins for. Anyway. [00:46:12] Brett: Um, yeah. Okay. I’m going to check this out later, cause I’m not sure what you’re talking about and that sounds really cool. But yeah, I mean, pin Pinboard is it’s ugly. Let’s be, let’s be honest. It’s it’s not a pretty website and it hasn’t been updated since its inception. I have written, I have written like, uh, like plugins that stylize Pinboard a little bit more and make it prettier, but it does what it needs to do and it does it. [00:46:46] And there’s a like incorporated, basically the entire delicious API and it replicated everything that delicious API could do. And then add it a little more on top of it. But the, the fact [00:47:00] is it’s a bookmarking site and it saves your bookmarks and you have always have them available to export in multiple formats and you can access them through an API that does everything you needed to do. [00:47:15] And honestly it pinball. Never changed, never updated and just continue to exist for the next, we’ll say 10 years, I would be extremely happy and happy to pay my monthly fee for a Pinboard. [00:47:31] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well said Brett Terp stra [00:47:36] Brett: All right. So this is, it’s a Pinboard week. It’s a Pinboard [00:47:40] Jeff: then Bordewick [00:47:41] Brett: Uh, we got a couple minutes left here. Um, I’m going to check our topic list real quick, but I kind of do want to tell you about my TV setup. [00:47:52] Jeff: Oh yeah. The immersive TV situation. Yeah, [00:47:56] Brett: I think I’ve mentioned something about this before, but [00:48:00] I have this, I got this. Um, okay, so back background, I, we have a basement that it was purely. It was okay for people in the south. The, uh, basement is a floor underneath top floor. Like your first floor. It’s subterranean, right. You with me so far. [00:48:27] All right. So. So our basement was purely storage. I cleared enough space out to put in a futon and a 65 inch television vision and some speakers and a subwoofer and built myself a little entertainment center down there. Um, one that is just isolated enough that I can listen to a TV show or a movie at a reasonable volume level and not serve the rest of the house. [00:48:59] [00:49:00] And it was kind of a great place for me to hide. What I added to it was this, well, I first I tried a system that was in HTMI. Uh, you put like an led strip around the outside, back of the television, and then it intercepted the HTMI signal and then would light up the wall behind the television based on what was on the TV screen. [00:49:25] And it didn’t work. Right. Uh, I was not impressed with where the colors matched and, uh, it also broke all of my, like the ability for the apple remote to turn on the TV, because there was, uh, uh, basically a breaker between the TV and the apple TV, where it was inter intercepting, the HTMI signal. It wasn’t a, it broke all kinds of functionality. [00:49:52] So what I ended up getting was this go V. G O V E a lighting [00:50:00] system that uses a camera that sits about three inches out, out of the top of the television and, and watches the screen. And then it has an led strip around the outside, back of the television and two standing light bars that face the wall about 20 inches on either side of the television. [00:50:23] And that has been amazing. [00:50:27] Jeff: Really it’s not, it’s not distracting or anything. I always [00:50:30] Brett: oh, it’s totally distracting. Um, I, my ADHD, when I want stimulus, I want sound and I want my vision, uh, saturated. And when I want that, the soundbar and the subwoofer and this entire wall of light. It’s perfect for me when there are times when I, I can’t [00:51:00] handle that. Like I, I have moods, um, and there are times where upstairs I, so the 65 inch TV was in our Paris, small living room and it was too big for that room. [00:51:16] Uh, like our, our couch is like maybe 10 feet from the screen. And 65 inches is too much for a room that size, um, um, it’s eight feet at best. Um, so I moved that down to where I need the stimulation. And now we have like a reasonable, I think 35 inch screen in that small living room where Ella and I can both watch it a TV screen and not get headaches. [00:51:45] Um, [00:51:46] Jeff: But in the basement. [00:51:48] Brett: When I’m in the mood that I need, the stimulus overload, that 65 inch TV or a wall full of light that matches the TV screen. [00:52:00] And immersive sound is amazing. It’s amazing. It’s exactly what I need. There’s a, a song by a band called kite called Johnny boy. And the video has a lot of flickering black and white, and this camera keeps up with the flickering to the extent where as the flickering happens on the TV screen, the entire wall flickers in perfect sync with it. [00:52:29] And it is it’s like if you’ve ever watched, like it’s, if you slow down a film, roll enough that you start to see the flicker it’s, it’s that just full it’s full body. It’s kind of [00:52:44] Jeff: That’s super cool. I love it. [00:52:46] Brett: I’m going to link, I’m going to link the Gobi system because it’s actually cheaper than any of the HDMR intercept systems. [00:52:53] Um, and, and yeah. What does it cost? Hold on [00:53:00] the entire system with the light bars as 150 bucks for the whole thing, the TV will cost you more than that, but for 150 bucks, anything from, I think maybe a 55 to 65 inch TV is what it works with and it it’ll it’ll blow your mind. [00:53:19] Jeff: Sounds great. [00:53:21] Brett: Yeah. All right. So we, we got our one sponsor and we got some mental health. [00:53:27] We got some, we got some TV shit. We got some other stuff. Are we, are we done? [00:53:33] Jeff: I feel like we’ve done a really good job. [00:53:36] Brett: I just slammed the rest of my coffee. I got, I got energy for this. [00:53:44] got energy to end this now [00:53:47] Jeff: I got to go pick up my kids, man. [00:53:49] Brett: it was a good show. [00:53:50] Jeff: Yeah. [00:53:51] Brett: It was a good Breton Geoff show. [00:53:53] Jeff: Yeah. It was really enjoyed it. Should I tell you to get some sleep? And should you tell me the same? [00:53:58] Brett: I feel like that’s about to [00:54:00] happen. [00:54:01] Jeff: Get some sleep. [00:54:02] Brett: Get some sleep, Jeff.

Patrick Rhone joins the gang for a journey through mental health, a bit of TV, and some favorite apps that bring back a lot of memories. Sponsor New Relic combines 16 different monitoring products for IT. Get access to the whole New Relic platform and 100GB of data free, forever – no credit card required! Sign up at newrelic.com/overtired. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links patrickrhone.net Mental Health Minnesota The Piggyback Guy This is Us Hacks Name Mangler Forklift Jumpcut (Steve Cook) Quicksilver Moom ffmpeg FFWorks Permute Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 286 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, welcome to overtired. I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with my usual cohost, Christina Warren and Jeff Severns Guntzel and rounding out what is turning out to be a very Minnesota show this week. We have many, no St. Paul light. [00:00:20] Patrick: Thank [00:00:20] Meet Patrick Rhone [00:00:20] Brett: word? Hi, Patrick. Rhone. [00:00:22] Patrick: I, [00:00:23] Brett: Welcome to the show. [00:00:25] Patrick: I appreciate that quick correction. [00:00:27] Brett: Is it St. Police though? [00:00:29] What [00:00:29] Patrick: here. Uh, so, [00:00:31] Jeff: are you from. [00:00:32] Patrick: and St. Paul, uh, collectively referred to as the twin cities are divided essentially by the Mississippi river. Um, Minneapolis is on the west side of the river and St. Paul is on the east side of the river. [00:00:45] Um, my wife often says that St. Paul is the last Eastern city. Minneapolis is the first Western city. If you want to understand the kind of culture and, uh, and, and difference [00:01:00] between say old money, new money. Um, sort of feel of both cities, [00:01:07] Brett: Even just to be clear geographically, it is not down the middle of this state or the country for that matter. [00:01:13] Patrick: No geographically, that is not true, but certainly from a, um, from a general feel standpoint is a very easy way to kind of, um, come to one place and see kind of the, the division between east and west, uh, that happened, uh, as you know, the country was being settled further and further west, um, and kind of, uh, St. [00:01:41] Paul being the first of the two cities to be settled, it kind of held on to it’s very, um, uh, turn of the century Victorian feel. Uh, whereas Minneapolis has not met a building, um, older [00:02:00] than 10 years, that it is not willing to tear down and [00:02:03] Jeff: That is not willing to Clare down and erase from memory. [00:02:06] Patrick: Yes. Yes. They have no problem doing so whatsoever in St. [00:02:09] Paul, you would have like pitchforks and, and, uh, people with, uh, Firesticks, uh, trying to burn it down. If you [00:02:17] Brett: Does this seem accurate to you, Jeff, [00:02:20] Jeff: Yeah. Starting in the seventies when a lot of cities, but definitely Minneapolis. We’re like, Hey, it’s a new time. This kind of old stuff, that’s all ordinate. This is just old. Let’s get some new stuff going. And pretty soon it’s like, wait, what? I didn’t know new is going to be brutalist architecture. And like, you know, when, uh, you know, we destroyed so much of what, uh, would have been a real beautiful historic feel of this city and this downtown as specialty. [00:02:47] Brett: but Minneapolis has all the biggest buildings, all the tallest buildings. [00:02:53] Patrick: That is true. And in the state that’s [00:02:55] Jeff: that’s not a [00:02:56] Brett: that’s, that’s not nothing. [00:02:58] Jeff: Let me tell you some of my city, we got [00:03:00] some tall buildings. [00:03:04] Brett: So, I don’t know if you guys have ever noticed this, but, uh, we have a pretty heavy mental health bent on this show. Um, which is, which is, yeah, it, it, it happens on occasion. Uh, we have a whole corner dedicated to mental health, um, which is why I asked Patrick to be on this week. Uh, Patrick is the president of the board of mental health, Minnesota. [00:03:31] Is that right? [00:03:32] Patrick: That is correct. Yes. Mental health, Minnesota is a advocacy outreach and direct service organization, whose mission is, to , advocate for provide help for, and to really, help people, start handling, um, their, whatever mental health crises issues, whatever, uh, what they like to call before stage four. [00:03:55] Right. Um, that, uh, the kind of, one [00:04:00] of our main things is to help people identify where they’re at provide peer support for folks that is a one step down from a crisis or one step before, um, crisis and the help to prevent it from getting to that stage. [00:04:15] Brett: You were on like a support line, don’t you? Isn’t there a. [00:04:18] Patrick: Yes. It’s called the Minnesota, uh, warm line, um, kind of a play on hotline because. [00:04:25] Brett: quite a hotline. [00:04:26] Patrick: It’s not a hotline, right? It’s not, it’s not a suicide prevention hotline. It’s it is a Warmline that is staffed by certified peer specialists, folks with actual lived experience, uh, and are, you know, mental illness survivors themselves, uh, who, um, are there just to talk to you when, Hey, you’re having, you’re having a bad day or you’re feeling like something’s coming on? [00:04:52] You know, it’s not quite like I don’t, you know, I, I’m not thinking about suicide, but I’m really, I need to talk to [00:05:00] somebody who gets it, you know, and my therapist isn’t available because, you know, I mean, they’re hard to get and I only see them every other week and I don’t really have anyone to talk to, or I don’t want to talk to my friends about this, or I just want it to be anonymous. [00:05:14] And so here’s a place where, uh, someone in that sort of situation can call and be able to talk to somebody who, who gets it. And who’s been [00:05:23] Brett: Have you ever, have you ever personally Mandel lines? [00:05:28] Patrick: Uh, I have not personally man, the lines, but I can say not anonymously that I have personally used the service. [00:05:34] Brett: Alright. Um, [00:05:36] Patrick: what’s great is that they have no idea who I am when I call. So, you know, [00:05:41] Mental Health Corner [00:05:41] Brett: um, so in our mental health corner, we all do kind of a check-in. Um, I was thinking I would let either Jeff or Christina go first, uh, just to give Patrick a feel for how this goes, even though he has listened to a couple episodes just to set the mood. Uh, [00:06:00] Jeff, do you want to say. [00:06:02] Jeff: Christina, do you want us to start? [00:06:06] Christina: Totally start. Um, yeah, so, um, I’m doing pretty well. I would say I I’m being getting’s I’m still, my ADHD is one of those things that I struggle with sometimes because there are aspects of it that can be beneficial and that I feel like I really have it under control. And then there was some weeks when I realized, oh, shit, I completely dropped the ball on this email or this other thing. [00:06:31] And now I’m going to have to like, do some catch up time on it. Um, so I’m trying to kind of work that through a little bit, but otherwise I cannot really complain too much. I feel like changing jobs and, um, having a little bit more, um, structure and, um, excitement around what I’m doing for the day. Job has actually really improved my mental health over the last six weeks or so. [00:06:57] So that I’m, I’m in a good place. I don’t have too much [00:07:00] to talk about. [00:07:02] Brett: we’ll talk about. [00:07:03] it in a little bit, but w Jeff and I both said. The last episode of the download that you did forget hub. [00:07:09] Jeff: Yeah. [00:07:10] Brett: That is a good hub production, [00:07:12] Christina: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:07:14] Brett: It looks to me for all intents and purposes. Like you’re killing it at your new job. [00:07:19] Christina: Well, thank you. Thank you. Um, yeah, so this is actually kind of a funny story. So the download started at Microsoft and, um, I’d been doing it for about, I had like, like 10 or 11 episodes before I moved over and we I’d had to have, I’ve had to. Um, you know, make a pitch to even like bring back a show that I’d been doing beforehand, um, called the speaker on channel nine. [00:07:48] Um, we’d had time off and, and some formatting changes. And I, but I knew that the idea behind the show, which is basically to cover the latest developer news of the week at the time, it [00:08:00] was through a little bit of a Microsoft lens. Now it’s not, which is even better for me. And, and I think for the audience, um, and, uh, basically I read all the blog posts, um, you know, hacker news entries, things on Reddit, whatnot, distill it into. [00:08:14] A seven minute overview so that instead of having to spend your week trying to catch up, you can be like, okay, these are some of the cool things that happened or, or big product leases or security notes, what have you, and in the show was successful. Um, but, uh, I had no expectation that we would be able to continue doing it at get hub. [00:08:34] And so my plan was okay, well, I’m just going to, even though I just started this thing and we come up with the graphics and, and the editing style, I’m just gonna recreate this. Uh, but it turns out that it was doing well enough that, um, the Microsoft was like, well, we will still let you use our resources and an editor, but it will live on the GitHub channel. [00:08:55] And now, um, the, the editor pro content will be, um, [00:09:00] broader because it will be for the GitHub audience. So, um, it it’s working really well and I think people are liking it. So thank you both for watching it. And I know we’ll talk more about it, but yeah, I’m feeling good about it. And that definitely does make me feel good about my job. [00:09:14] Brett: All [00:09:14] Jeff: Yeah, it was great. That’s fun to watch. [00:09:16] Brett: that’s awesome. Patrick goes next. [00:09:18] Patrick: Okay. Sure. Yeah. Um, well, I don’t know Kurt currently, um, you know, we’re a little bit before the episode, Brett and I talked about like my long history with staff and folks that don’t know me, you know, that are probably not, um, familiar to regular listeners, uh, kind of my history. So I’ll try to, I’ll try to briefly cover it. [00:09:42] Uh, but, uh, I was diagnosed as Mac depressive when I was 14, which was kind of the precursor to bipolar. Bipolar is not even a word or term that entered the lexicon until I was in my twenties. Um, and so, uh, yeah, so what was [00:10:00] considered, uh, a manic depressive is now necessarily, you know, it’s kind of now called bipolar, so I guess that’s my. [00:10:08] Diagnosis, uh, treated off and on my entire life, uh, for that, uh, various ways and reasons, um, you know, up and down with various medications, um, up and down with various, uh, styles of, of therapy, psychiatric intervention, um, a couple of suicide attempts, uh, attempts of my younger time, which led to, you know, various 72 hour holds and things like that. [00:10:39] Um, and, uh, really, uh, you know, struggled for quite some time, many, many years with my mental illness. Um, As it stands today and has been the case for about the past 15 years. Um, I manage my illness, uh, [00:11:00] through a mindfulness and meditation practice. Uh, I, uh, do not currently take medication. Um, I’m not opposed to it certainly. [00:11:07] Um, and, you know, think it works for a lot of people and especially, uh, as time has gone on, it’s gotten a lot better for when I was on it. Um, and so yeah, big fan, you know, drugs are good. Um, um, uh, even the recreational stuff, sometimes a is, is a big help. And increasingly, as we know, they’re, they’re finding, uh, you know, dropping little tiny hits of acid [00:11:29] Brett: Oh yeah. Those hallucinogens can be great for depression and bipolar. [00:11:33] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m really excited to see a lot of the research that’s coming out about that. And Michael Pollan, Poland, um, wrote a book, uh, about that, um, which, uh, I have yet to read, but I hear is really, really good if you’re interested in such a thing. Um, and, uh, yeah, and it’s something that plays a factor throughout my family to various degrees. [00:11:57] Uh, my, my young [00:12:00] youngest daughter, my 14 year old, um, um, deals with anxiety, uh, and, and, uh, working through that and, you know, has therapy, uh, for that both, uh, at school. Uh, she, they’ve got a great, uh, counselor, um, licensed therapist, right at school that she sees almost several times a week. Um, and then, yeah, it was not great. [00:12:23] Um, uh, [00:12:25] Christina: That’s amazing. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you. I just, I’m just like, that’s incredible [00:12:30] Patrick: Yeah. Well, and I mean, you know, in fairness, she goes to a, a, to a private school, so that’s not a, you know, unfortunately that’s not the [00:12:38] Brett: There’s the. [00:12:39] Christina: Well, no, no, no, but [00:12:41] Patrick: But even there. [00:12:42] Christina: schools, I went to a private school and, and yeah. I mean, you know, like I, I had to go outside. I had like my private doctor and whatnot, but it certainly was not in a position where I could go a few times a week. So anyway, that’s. [00:12:56] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. But the, you know, the therapist at school is kind of there to [00:13:00] help her work through anxiety issues and, and things at the school they’re happening at the school. Right. And so she also has a therapist. She sees, uh, uh, every other week, uh, outside of school, um, to kind of talk about everything else. [00:13:16] Um, and to just have that outside ear, uh, someone that’s not kind of invested in her life in any other way outside of just, you know, uh, the therapy portion. Um, but my oldest daughter, I’ve got two much older children from my first marriage. Uh, she’s actually, uh, currently, um, in voluntarily committed, uh, uh, institutionalized for lack of a better word, um, as she was, uh, certainly, um, Uh, well deemed incorrectly, so a danger to herself and others, she severe mental illness, uh, you know, uh, what, uh, used to be called, [00:14:00] um, split personality or most vulnerable personality disorders now, uh, referred to I believe his personality, this affective disorder or something like that. [00:14:08] Um, this associate with thank you first, not only just associated with the disorder, um, as well as a hell’s hand basket of other, um, diagnoses, um, and, uh, you know, in and out of addiction, in her attempts to self-medicate, uh, in and out of regular, you know, therapy, unable to hold down a job, uh, because of the severe mental health issues. [00:14:34] Um, and, uh, so about five years ago, she was, uh, committed. Um, and it’s about a month away from, uh, getting, uh, into a group home situation, getting released from there, getting out and putting it, you know, she’ll live in a group home for, you know, six months a year for our longest needed until she can kind of, uh, get back on her feet. [00:14:55] But she is, um, you know, talking to her on the phone and [00:15:00] visiting her regularly down in St. Peter, Minnesota. I can honestly say she is as healthy as she has ever been in her entire life. And is the absolute best thing that could’ve happened to her is shitty the way that she ended up there. But the, I mean, it literally, uh, you know, assuming that she kind of stays on top of things and she really has, uh, she’s saying the right things and doing the right things and thinking in the right way and that sort of thing. [00:15:28] I really think she’s got a chance for success at living in otherwise normal and healthy life, especially can, um, [00:15:35] Brett: how are you passing? [00:15:37] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. It, and I also, I just want to come and like, it’s amazing. I think I’m sure a lot of that comes with your role and your advocacy, but being as open about this stuff is, is really refreshing. [00:15:50] Patrick: You know, here’s the deal, right? And that is that we really, we, we gotta be open and kudos to you all for talking about this every, every week and [00:16:00] laying your cards out on the table, because gosh, you know what I would have given at age 14 to have you. Have you guys to have someone out there talking about this stuff that I wasn’t, this like crazy person that I was someone, and now I’m going to start tearing up. [00:16:18] Cause I, you know, I I’m, I’m one of those guys, um, don’t show me like an ingredient card commercials as I get really just like a complete public mess. But, um, you know, or anything involving like daughters and fathers and they’re coming home from college and any of those sorts of commercials, like there was an at and T one a while back. [00:16:37] I was just like, every time it would come on, it just flow. But no, seriously. Um, I can’t tell you how needed this is and how much we need to keep doing this and how much we need to do this out in public to everybody at the dinner table at the, we need to talk about this stuff because I was alone, you know, 40 years ago I was all [00:17:00] alone. [00:17:01] Brett: Yeah. [00:17:02] Patrick: I felt that way at least. I didn’t know anyone who had any mental health illness issues and knowing one who was manic-depressive. I didn’t know anyone who was seeing psychiatrist or a therapist. I didn’t know anyone taking medication. I didn’t know anyone. And I had evidence all over my family that this was a issue genetically and my family, but I never connected those dots and no one ever talked about it. [00:17:26] Brett: yeah. well, like 20 years ago, I, I should have been diagnosed as bipolar and ADHD, but even then I should say more like 30 years ago, the people I did know who, who had acknowledged mental illnesses were ostracized to an extent where I didn’t, I didn’t want to be diagnosed with anything. Uh, after, after some suicidal ideation, I was sent to a psychiatrist who, uh, said I was depressed [00:18:00] and tried to put me on lithium and it didn’t go well. [00:18:02] And I just left and I didn’t try again for another 15 years. Uh, and, and because they’re just there, wasn’t, there weren’t any examples out there. And I feel like kids. Growing up right now have something that even, even the youngest of us, even Christina didn’t have as a kid. [00:18:24] Christina: No, no, no, no, no, not even remotely. And in fact, um, you know, I was because I had to be, I, because I did not have an excuse when I was in high school, I had to be open with my teachers about the fact that I was going through the depression and the anxiety in the terrible, um, process of, of changing out medications and. [00:18:47] That was impacting my schoolwork and they were not at all understanding at least at the first high school that I was at. I’ve talked about that before they were not, and this was supposed to be one of the best schools in the state and they could not have been less understanding [00:19:00] and cared less. And in, you know, um, a relatively short period of time that the behavior that, that they showed would be completely unacceptable now, which is awesome, which is great. [00:19:15] And I think that the only reason it changes is because of people like Patrick and because we do more to get to show to, to, you know, have for the 14 year old us, doesn’t have to feel alone anymore. Right. Like I think that’s the only reason that we’ve had progress. And so, yeah, I, um, I mean, I could tear up thinking about it too, but it’s, it’s I’m so, so, so happy that 14 year olds today, um, not [00:19:43] Patrick: Have therapists in their school for God’s sakes. [00:19:46] Brett: Yeah. [00:19:46] Christina: Right, but, but they don’t, it’s not it’s they don’t have to face the same level of stuff that we did. And, and that is amazing. [00:19:54] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s, it’s so blessing. So I will answer the question, um, [00:20:00] you know, today I’m fine, but that’s today, um, every day is a different thing and I’ve, I’ve written about this. I’ve got to post, if people want to look it up called the piggyback guy, which is really the best way I’ve found, uh, to, uh, to describe what it’s like to live with a mental illness and more specifically with depression. [00:20:21] Um, um, but, uh, uh, it’s on Patrick rhone.net. Just, just do a search for, uh, Patrick roam, piggyback guy, and you’ll find it, um, in any [00:20:33] Brett: in the show notes. [00:20:35] Patrick: Terrific. Um, so basically I describe it like this. It’s like having a 300 pound guy. Who’s mean and smelly and horrible, and he’s demanding a piggyback ride. That’s all he wants is simple. [00:20:52] He just wants to be back. Right. And, um, you know, you don’t want to give him a piggyback. [00:21:00] And sometimes he’s off in the corner, just sulking and you barely even know he’s there and you know, you can just safely ignore him, you know, he’s there, you know, he he’s always there. He never disappears, but you know, he’s like he can’t hear them. [00:21:14] Yeah. Some days you wake up, you know, and he’s like right over your shoulder and he’s just going in your saying, Hey, give me a fucking piggy rag, man. What’s your fucking problem. Look, look, are you some sort of asshole? Cause you won’t give me one. Cause I mean like I saw him asking for is really not much, man. [00:21:31] Just give me the fucking ride, you know? And you’re kidding. Oh geez. I don’t. I know cause I know if I give you the ride, I know where the now no, no I’m going to be good this time. I’m going to get right off. It won’t be more and you just care me a block man, half a block. I don’t care. Just let me get on your back. [00:21:45] Didn’t and you you’re fighting him all day long and he’s trying to get his piggyback right? And then he starts yelling at you. Like, you know what, you’re a fucking piece of shit, man. You’re a horrible person for not giving me a ride. What kind of horrible person doesn’t like, give his friend a piggyback ride.[00:22:00] [00:22:00] You’re just like, maybe you should just die. Right? And, and like, you know, it’s, it’s really horrible and really hard to ignore them. Some days you wake up and he’s literally sitting on your chest and you can’t move, you can’t get out of bed. And he says, breathing in your face and he’s just brooding. And you know that the only way you’re ever going to get rid of this guy, the only thing that will give you peace is death. [00:22:29] That you’re going to have to live with this asshole for the rest of your life. And every single day put up with some level of his shit. That’s what it feels like. And some [00:22:41] Brett: Wow. [00:22:42] Patrick: days he’s off in the corner and you can ignore. Last Wednesday for me, he was right over my shoulder and I don’t know why there was nothing that caused it. [00:22:53] Right. And today I have no idea where he is, but I know he’s there. I can’t [00:23:00] see him. I don’t know I’m going about my life, but I know that the rest of my life, I’m going to go about it. Knowing he’s there somewhere, um, at various levels and degrees. And that the only way I’m going to be able to kind of, um, you know, deal with that live with that is to, um, you know, accept it, work my way through it. [00:23:25] Mentally recognize that on the days when he’s really close, that may be a day that I need to rearrange some things, or I need to take it a little bit easier on myself, or I need to just go, okay, that’s that’s today. And that’s the way today is going to be. And I’m just going to be quiet and get through it. [00:23:46] Brett: wrote a long piece a couple years ago about my bipolar addict shadow. And I don’t remember the exact metaphor I use in the piece and I never published it. [00:24:00] I wanted feedback on it, but I was too embarrassed to get it before I put it out. Um, but yeah, this idea of this almost outside force that, that I struggle against and with, and sometimes it come to that is just constantly against what I know is good for me. [00:24:27] Uh, going against what I know I should, according to, you know, the rest of the world, what I should be feeling, what I should be thinking. Um, yeah, I, I, I hear you. I get that. [00:24:39] Lies. [00:24:40] Patrick: Yeah. Where the euphoria lies. Uh, one could take that as, as you know, where it lives, where it lays down and you know, but also where it lies [00:24:51] Christina: But also we’re deceives you. [00:24:53] Patrick: Yeah. Where it [00:24:53] Jeff: under poet, but didn’t know it. [00:24:57] That is nice. That is nice.[00:25:00] [00:25:00] Patrick: I, I mean, I immediately heard it both ways. [00:25:03] Brett: because you are a poet at heart. [00:25:06] Patrick: Um, no, no, because you know, I, you know, words mean things and, and, uh, I, I find, I find it interesting when we choose them. So, so, um, uh, both, uh, accurately and ambiguously. [00:25:23] Brett: that’s what makes you a great writer? Great writer, Patrick, [00:25:26] Patrick: Thank you, Brett. I appreciate [00:25:28] Brett: love of words. [00:25:29] Patrick: I very much love you. You know that. [00:25:31] Brett: I love you too. [00:25:33] Sponsor: New Relic [00:25:33] If you’re a software engineer you’ve been there. It’s 9:00 PM. You’re finally unwinding from work, your phone buses with an alert something’s broken and your mind’s already racing. And what could be wrong? Is it the backend or the front end? Is it global? Is it the server? That I introduced a bug in my last deploy. [00:25:52] Now the whole team scrambling from tool to tool and messaging person after person to fix the issue that won’t happen. [00:26:00] If you get new Relic, new Relic, combined 16 different monitoring products that you’d normally buy separately. [00:26:05] So engineering teams can see across our entire software stack in one place. More importantly, you can pinpoint issues down to the line of code. So you knew exactly why the problem happened and can resolve it quickly. That’s why the Devin ops team of door dash good hub, epic games, and more than 14,000 other companies use new Relic to debug and improve their software. [00:26:31] Whether you run a cloud native syrup or a fortune 500 company, it just takes five minutes to set up new Relic in your environment. The next 9:00 PM call is just waiting to happen. Get new Relic before it. And you can get access to the whole new Relic platform and 100 gigabytes of data free forever. No credit card required. [00:26:54] Sign up at new relic.com/overtired that’s N E w R [00:27:00] E L I c.com/overtired. New relic.com/overtired. [00:27:07] White Anglo-Saxon Protestants or… [00:27:07] Brett: So we have wasps and [00:27:10] Patrick: Why, why do you have [00:27:12] Brett: I [00:27:12] Jeff: watch that [00:27:14] Brett: I think there’s a nest. We have this vent that goes from our bathroom to outside and it gets a straight line from the bathroom fan to the side of the house where it goes out. And we’re pretty sure that wasps built a nest in there and. Me. I’m like, okay. So we call Orkin, we’ll get a bunch of chemicals sprayed in there and we just deal with this shit. My girlfriend, whoever is chemically sensitive and, uh, was not anxious to douse our home and chemicals. So what she came up with, she got a diffuser like this, like a Roma therapy [00:28:00] shit, uh, that like you put, you put your essential oils into and she filled it up with like highly concentrated mint, hung as a basket under we, we put a command hook on the wall and then there was a plant hook near the vent and she was strong. [00:28:20] It she’s strong a basket so that it was within about six inches of the vent, plugged it into the wall and. Piped mint turned on the fan and piped mint through that vent for about four days straight. And I haven’t seen a wasp since [00:28:40] Jeff: hold on, hold on. There’s an in-between [00:28:42] Brett: cold. What, what? [00:28:44] Jeff: there’s an in-between point. Cause that was on a zoom meeting with you when you were on your porch and had to step away every few minutes, like the mint, it wasn’t like this is going to end the wasps. It was like, this is going to make them disoriented. [00:28:57] They’re going to fall out of here and I’m going [00:28:59] Brett: [00:29:00] no. It was going to make them. move. The idea was to gradually make them so uncomfortable that they would decide to make a nest somewhere else. And for the last week, I really haven’t seen, there was one wasp in my fucking office that I didn’t see until it was four inches from my face. And I screamed like a, uh, a young woman. That sounded sexist. [00:29:27] Jeff: that. I could hear your brain going. I’m not going to think girl, but [00:29:30] Brett: I’m not going to [00:29:30] Christina: Well, no, it was high pitched, you know, someone who hasn’t [00:29:33] Brett: I screamed like a pathetic 43 year old man. Um, and, and, and Who’s scared to death of wasps. And I, I grabbed a, a magazine and I beat the shit out of that wasp. But other than that, I have not seen a single wasp and I am, I’m hesitant to say the problem is solved, but I honestly think [00:30:00] L’s mint therapy for the wasp might actually had done some [00:30:04] Jeff: I don’t know if it’s the therapy that’s as which is more genius, the therapy or the basket strung between two points to [00:30:11] Brett: It was very clever. She’s very [00:30:13] Jeff: a lot of levels. [00:30:15] Brett: what to look for at the store. Like it command hooks. I had never heard of them, but It’s a thing that like you can adhere to a wall and then it pulls off clean, beautiful stuff. [00:30:26] Patrick: Yeah. [00:30:27] Jeff: by bye local. [00:30:28] Christina: I was going to say I, um, [00:30:30] Brett: Minnesota should know that [00:30:32] Christina: I was going to say, I, I should, uh, I I’m aware of that even though, like I have the messiest office in the world, but when I have like, plans of finally making it clean, I’m like, oh yes, I will use command hooks to adhere to things that, that I doesn’t leave a gross residue, but no, the basket and the men therapy. [00:30:49] I hope that that is helping. I’m like you, I, I have a great fear of wasps, I think because I got stung by one when I was like two or three years old [00:31:00] and that has stuck with me. And it’s weird. Cause I’m not, I’m not really afraid of, of a lot of things. I don’t like bugs and I’m very allergic to, um, to, to insects, um, like, uh, nothing that would put me into like, um, you know, apoplectic shock, I don’t think. [00:31:16] But, um, [00:31:18] Brett: So far. [00:31:19] Christina: so far, but no, I mean they’re there. can be out and there could be mosquitoes for a second. And people like, oh, it’s not that bad. And I’ll wind up with a welt so bad on my ring finger that they almost had to cut my, my wedding ring off of my ma my hand. Um, we were, fortunately I was able to get like a steroid, um, so that we didn’t have to do that. [00:31:38] But, um, I, uh, yeah, I remember being stung by a wasp when I was really little and like, to this day, that’s one of the few things I’m like. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. [00:31:48] Brett: the, to the best of my recollection, I have never been stung by a wasp, but when I was about 10 years old, I was hiking with my grandfather on my [00:32:00] dad’s side. And we were in Missouri and there was an underground, I think, yellow jacket hive. And I did were two people in front of me who both stepped on it before I got there, but I was the third and final straw. [00:32:15] And I stepped on that hive. I got stung about 50 times [00:32:19] Christina: oh my. [00:32:20] Brett: and the weird thing is now I am scared of wasp, but I don’t give a shit about bees. Cause I’ve Been there, [00:32:28] I’ve done that. Like I can survive. I can survive all the bees. You can bring no problem, but a wasp or a Hornet. Oh, I’m scared shitless. [00:32:38] Christina: Well, and, and we all remember like, like the classic Macaulay Culkin film, my girl. Right. [00:32:43] Patrick: yes. [00:32:44] Jeff: didn’t see my [00:32:45] Brett: see. [00:32:46] Christina: Okay. All right, right. Patrick was going [00:32:48] Patrick: Well, who was the female, sir? Was that true? That wasn’t true much. That was like one [00:32:51] Christina: No, no, that was Anna Chlumsky. [00:32:53] Patrick: say yeah. Is there you go? Yeah. Anna Chlumsky yes. [00:32:55] Christina: who, who went on to be on Veep. Um, and, uh, yeah, I know, but, but, but, but [00:33:00] Macaulay Culkin spoiler alert for 30 year old movie, uh, is, is killed by a bee, a bee sting. And, uh, and it’s very, very, very sad. And if you are like of a certain age, that is one of like the defining, like childhood moments as watching most famous child star in the world, die from obesity. [00:33:20] Patrick: Yes, [00:33:20] Brett: by the way, mosquitoes do not fuck with my, uh, for years. Like every, everyone will be like swatting, mosquitoes, welting up. And I wouldn’t get a single bite. [00:33:32] Patrick: Well, you know why that [00:33:33] Brett: see me and they would run. [00:33:36] Patrick: Cause they’re all fucking with me. Like every mosquito in Minnesota is on me. So they’re leaving the rest of you [00:33:43] Brett: yeah. [00:33:44] Patrick: I’ll take my, thank you now. [00:33:46] Brett: There was two, there, there was two years where I suddenly attracted every mosquito and I would get huge welts from them. Like I would react way more than a mosquito bite. I would get welt and [00:34:00] then it ended. And now I’m back to mosquitoes, not fuck with me. So I’m happy. [00:34:04] Patrick: So I just a FYI. Um, so, uh, one of the things that someone who. In a crowd is the only one who gets like bitten by mosquitoes somehow. Um, uh, I’ve actually looked into this. Um, and, uh, I’m also one of those people where the, when the temperature gets above 70, I just start pouring buckets of sweat. Like it doesn’t matter. [00:34:30] Like, uh, you know, I’m very, very hot sensitive. I just get used to sometime around this time of year, just literally being wet all the time. I’m always wet. I need to change my t-shirts, you know, sometimes two, sometimes three times a day. Um, and mosquitoes apparently really, really love guys like me who sweat a lot. [00:34:50] Uh, cause that’s what attracts them is that, that, that, uh, that sweat, that odor that does the saltiness and all of that, like that’s what, that’s why I’m so much [00:35:00] more prone to. That all leads to my question for Brett, which is, can you tie it to anything else that has changed around those times when you like, you know, did you make any mental note about, Hmm. [00:35:13] You know, I switched to a different medication for my bipolar, or I did this, or I did that. And something changed about your body chemistry. [00:35:23] Brett: That’s a really good question, which leads me to note that, um, I am really bad about drawing correlations or I’m really bad at drawing correlations. I do not pay enough attention to like, for example, I can have intestinal issues, but not tie them to what I ate the day before. Like my brain just does not connect the dots. [00:35:47] And I have such an ADHD memory that putting together long-term changes like that is nearly impossible for me. So it is [00:36:00] very possible that, uh, that it was all, you know, tied to an event or a change that I will probably never remember. [00:36:11] Patrick: Interesting. Yeah. I, I would be very curious to find that out. Um, you know, I, I, I know that it, it does have to do with your own personal body chemistry and that some people are more prone to getting, uh, getting bit by mosquitoes and others, just because of that. Also blood type plays a factor as well. [00:36:32] Christina: Oh, does it, does it, I I’m curious about that. Cause yeah, I am. I’m extremely allergic to any sort of like, like, like, uh, mosquitoes and, and, uh, aunts. Um, any, anything like in the mosquito family actually, like aunts are in their family, but I’m allergic to ants too. Uh, but mosquitoes, like there, there’ve been a couple of instances when things in that family have been flying around and just kind of like bit me on the arm and in, you [00:37:00] know, 30 minutes, like it’s this gigantic welt and people are like, oh my God, do you have to go to, you know, like, like the doctor or something. [00:37:08] So. [00:37:09] Patrick: So, Christina, what you’re saying is that you will never be visiting Minnesota, that if I want to meet you in person, I have to come to you. [00:37:16] Christina: Well, I might, I might, I just might have to, you know, find a way to be indoors. A lot of the time I will say this, I will never go on like a lake vacation sort of thing, and Minnesota, right? Like I’m not going to go to, like, I’m not going to do like the whole like great, like outdoors, you know, family park thing. [00:37:32] Like what hot American summer thing that I’m not going to [00:37:35] Patrick: No, no boundary waters. [00:37:37] Christina: long as, [00:37:38] Patrick: Yeah, no, no canoeing. No. [00:37:40] Christina: no, [00:37:41] Patrick: right. [00:37:42] Christina: no. I, I mean, I mean, it, it depends. I mean, I, I gave it a try, but it would probably be painful for me. I, uh, so, uh, I grew up in Atlanta and we have a lot of mosquitoes and things there too, but like the worst moments of my life were always when my parents would force me to go to camp types of things, because I was just [00:38:00] like, I’m going to be so miserable because of the bugs. [00:38:04] What happens at Bible camp… [00:38:04] Brett: Did you have to go to Bible camp? [00:38:07] Christina: No. [00:38:08] Brett: man, I did [00:38:09] Patrick: no, I’m so sorry. [00:38:11] Brett: first homosexual experience Bible. [00:38:13] Christina: I mean that, that tracks honestly, uh, my, uh, my, my friend, Andrew, who, my friend growing up, like in high school, my friend, Andrew, a very religious mom, very gay, a kid who did not want to be gay, but is just as gay as K can be. And his mom like bribed him with a car to like go to like a gay conversion camp and whatnot, where I, where I think he like flux the instructors, [00:38:38] Brett: Sure. [00:38:38] Patrick: VA. Yeah. [00:38:40] Christina: well, he was [00:38:41] Brett: opposed to all those gay people who want to be gay, grew up as kids thinking, you know, it’d be really great if I were a gay. [00:38:49] Christina: but he, but he was like, especially then he, like, he was like, oh, I, I think, I think, I think it can be a choice. I think I can change things. And, and my mom and I would, and my mom, and I’d be like, honey, no, like this is, this is who you are. [00:39:00] Um, [00:39:01] Brett: that. I grew up in that pray the gay away. Like I, we were visited by people who would give their testimonials about how I used to succumb to the homosexual temptation, but I prayed the, gay away [00:39:14] Christina: I mean, that’s what his mom would do. And we were, my parents were kind of like gassed at that and, and, and took him in for a while. And, um, but yeah, no, uh, that he liked much like you like Bible camp. I think a lot of his religious camp things that were really, really out there, whereas like the most like, um, experiences [00:39:33] Brett: man. yeah. [00:39:34] Between, between boy Scouts and, and, and Bible camp. I think most of my, most of the proclivities, I ended up, you know, embracing as an adult probably probably started at camp. [00:39:51] Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. Well, my mom was an [00:39:54] actress, so I [00:39:54] grew up with nothing but gay people. [00:39:56] Christina: Right. See, I was going to say, I was going to say, I w I was going to say, I [00:40:00] went to drama camp, which is like the one as sensibly for, you know, gay kids. And, uh, and so, you know yeah. Um, yeah. [00:40:10] Patrick: yeah. All the, like all, all of my, you know, my mom was a single mom and, uh, all of the men in my life, like a father figure, you know, sort of people, um, were gay men, every single one [00:40:26] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:40:26] So I, I sent no fewer than five emails to Patrick before today’s episode. And, uh, we we’ve changed our format in recent weeks and what I should have done. Uh, after, after my last episode with Alex and the snafoos that we went through, there is I should have created a single text expander snippet to inform guests of all of the things that we do on this show, the mental health corner. [00:40:59] [00:41:00] The, the requirement to record and Chrome, the gratitude list, like all of this could be in one snippet that I just shared with every guest. And if I use text expander, I could just have it with a fill-in. So I could say, Hey, guest’s name, here are all the details you need to know. And I could have done it in just a few keystrokes. [00:41:23] If I had set up a Texas timber text expander snippet, which I am totally doing right now. Uh, Patrick and I discuss this. It is something that absolutely needs to happen. Today’s episode is brought to you by text expander, which I really should be making better use of right now. [00:41:42] Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more and get 20% off your first year that’s text expander.com/podcast. [00:41:53] TV Party [00:41:53] Brett: So we haven’t had a media segment for weeks now, and we don’t have time for all of us to [00:42:00] go into our favorite TV, but I’m really curious what Patrick watch watches on TV. [00:42:04] Patrick: okay. Yeah. So I was explaining this to Brite before the show that, uh, my wife and I are not necessarily big TV people. We, um, You know, we, we definitely have, you know, several of the streaming services or whatever, but the TV is not a prominent part of our lives or even a proper part of our house. [00:42:23] Like, you know, a lot of people’s houses, you walk into the living room and there’s a nice big screen TV there. Ours is a, in a room, we call it the library off to the side. Um, and we very intentionally like, you know, sit down to watch acts. And we usually watch one show at a time. but you know, might have several episodes streaming. [00:42:44] We could quote unquote binge it, but we never do. We generally watch maybe an episode or two a week. Um, and it’s very unusual that we will, uh, watch more than that. Um, [00:43:00] and generally we watched together and so generally, and I’m saying generally for a reason, because there are certainly many cases that fall outside of that, as you might see. [00:43:11] Well, w we’ll decide together what it is that we want to watch. um, but there are those things that, I know that are not going to be her cup of tea, but are very much my cup of tea. And I will go out of my way to watch those separately, you know, sneak in a, an hour here or a half hour there at the end of the night or whatever, to, and just do it on my own. [00:43:34] Um, uh, so, uh, right now the ones, you know, all the ones that we’re watching are ones that we watched together. Uh, and they’re kind of boring and pedestrian. I know, um, we, uh, are big fans of the show. This is us, um, which is a show on and on, uh, NBC, but we watch it, uh, the night after, um, when it’s [00:44:00] available for streaming on Hulu. [00:44:02] Um, and this currently in his final season, and I believe its final episode airs next week. [00:44:08] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say this the serious. [00:44:13] Patrick: Yes, that is correct. And, you know, as we’ve already established, I’m very much a crier. And so this is the way that I, I, I cry every week, you know, I’m, I make sure to give my, my good cry on. Um, and then I cursed the show, have both my wife and I sit there after every episode going at this fucking show. [00:44:34] And we’re, we’re just puddles of tears and it’s a great bonding experience. Um, also, uh, the second, uh, the second season of a show called hacks just came out on HBO, uh, which is fantastic. It follows, uh, a aging, uh, Las Vegas, a comedian, um, uh, and, uh, a young millennial comedic [00:45:00] writer that she hires, um, almost reluctantly. [00:45:03] So, and, uh, they have this very interesting forge, this very interesting relationship. And not only is it our, um, just really funny and a good dynamic, uh, uh, but you know, it, it really does touch on a lot of those, you know, the aging, uh, comic is like, not that far off from my age. Um, you know, and, uh, the millennial is very much like everything we hate about millennials. [00:45:33] Um, [00:45:34] Brett: Sorry, Christina. [00:45:36] Christina: Yeah. [00:45:36] Patrick: sorry. [00:45:37] Christina: everyone. Hey look, no look, look, we we’re the most hated generation for a reason to spine. [00:45:41] Patrick: Well, well, but see, I’m an X-er so we people forget, we, even the millennials forget the, we exist. [00:45:47] Christina: oh, no, no, no. I know my husband’s an Exeter. So, so he, he likes to say that all the time, he was like, well, everyone forgets photos, but we like it that way. And I’m like, yeah, I [00:45:56] Patrick: know that we’d like it that way. It’s just that we know that we’re the ones [00:46:00] actually we’ve gotten used to it and we’re the ones who’s doing the work and not giving a shit. You can, you and the boomers can have it out. We don’t care [00:46:06] Christina: totally, totally also also in FA I mean, and I’ve always argued this, like the X-ers defined the culture that like the millennials really [00:46:13] Patrick: currently enjoy. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Not only are they obsessed with, with the recreating it currently right now? [00:46:19] Brett: well, and all of the services we use every day came from X-ers. Man. [00:46:24] Christina: well, well, some of them, I mean Facebook and Instagram and all that stuff, I mean, that’s my generation. So like, [00:46:30] Brett: All right, fuck that. I’m off Facebook. I’m off Instagram. I’m X-er only from Huron. [00:46:35] Patrick: That’s what it [00:46:37] Brett: if it wasn’t, if it wasn’t created by actors. [00:46:41] Patrick: Do they give you so many other, other reasons, but that’s the one that you’re choosing? [00:46:45] Brett: I, I know, I know that the fact is I will never even claim to be leaving Facebook, Uh, until until something better comes along. [00:46:56] Like I wouldn’t have left my space until Facebook [00:47:00] existed. I understand the value of, uh, social media with critical mass. And until something gets critical mass, it’s not worth giving up. You know, what’s currently working as many problems as it might have with Zuckerberg, with Facebook, with Instagram, with all of that. [00:47:21] It’s it’s, it’s where, it’s where things happen. And, and I can’t, [00:47:26] Patrick: uh, my, my wife, uh, is very, uh, very much a Facebook person. I have never, uh, really enjoyed the interface for Facebook and I’m, as you may know, and have, can tell I’m very much a look and feel guy I’m very much an interface guy and I, I get stressed out, just logging into Facebook. Um, and so I have a Facebook account. [00:47:48] I keep it there. I never post to it. Uh, the main reason I have it is for those times when my wife says, oh, you should go home and come look at this on Facebook. And that happens about [00:48:00] maybe every three to four months and I’ll log in and I’ll look at something and I’ll be oh, okay. Um, and then I’ll, um, not log in again for several more months until she does that again. [00:48:11] Um, [00:48:12] Brett: just follow accounts that post memes, I just love memes. [00:48:17] Christina: You’re such an old man. [00:48:18] Patrick: I don’t right. My wife is a big fan of the, of like, you know, of course the algorithm does nothing, but, you know, feed her, uh, stupid animal videos. And so she, she just loves those. Loves [00:48:31] Brett: you mean stupid animal [00:48:32] Patrick: well are cute or adorable, you know? Yeah, [00:48:36] Brett: Oh man, I follow entire accounts on Instagram that are nothing but like puppy and cat videos. Love [00:48:45] Patrick: You, you, you, you and my wife had the same algorithm apparently. [00:48:49] Christina: My friends that, that I worked with at Nashville back in the day, they created the side project that I think it was just a little bit too ahead of its time, but it was called the fluffing tin post. And [00:48:59] Patrick: Oh my [00:49:00] gosh. [00:49:01] Christina: and it was just like a collection. Like it was like a good daily digest of like cute animal stuff and, and, and the title was, was actually brilliant. [00:49:09] So yeah. [00:49:10] Patrick: Yes, please ship it. That’s that right there. I don’t know why, why w why is that not a thing? Cause you literally would like fill that with ads and make millions of dollars. [00:49:22] Christina: know, I think they were just a little bit too ahead of their time. I just pulled up those site. It’s still exists, but it hasn’t been updated since December and it hadn’t been updated a lot, but like, this is the sort of thing that they should have turned into a very successful, um, like Facebook page or [00:49:36] Patrick: Somebody should come along and offer them a few hundred thousand for that because that’s [00:49:40] Christina: I agree. [00:49:41] Patrick: easily a million dollar property easily. Yeah. [00:49:46] Brett: So, uh, so I realized today I had, uh, I had breakfast with my parents and I brought my girlfriend along, which is rare. I don’t usually subject her to my parents. [00:50:00] Um, but we, we agreed for mother’s day. We agreed to play some games. My mom loves playing games and. So today we, we had breakfast and we played some catchphrase with my parents, which is always a blast. [00:50:14] When you play with fundamentalists and words come up like sex change or, or, or heavy petting. And, and, and you’re teamed up with a fundamentalist Christian, and you have to come up with words. One of my words today was, was choose. And my immediate reaction was to go to go fetal, just to talk about fetuses and, [00:50:43] Christina: Oh, my God. [00:50:44] Brett: I avoided, but then brown sugar came up and I couldn’t help, but start with, it’s a type of heroin that the rolling stones sang about. [00:50:54] And I got nowhere. In fact, we lost, we lost that the buzzer went off because I spent [00:51:00] so long trying to get my mom to guess brown sugar. Cause I started off on the wrong foot. All of this, this. I’ve realized I picked up my mom’s, my mom’s, uh, obsessive need to host, like she is always, she wants to direct the conversation. [00:51:17] GrAPPtitude [00:51:17] Brett: She wants to make sure everyone is having a good time and talking about things that matter. And, and I think that happens with this podcast. I feel like I demand the host role that said, I think it’s time for gratitude. That was all a way of me getting [00:51:36] Jeff: Wow. Or was that a I, yeah, [00:51:38] Brett: the longest walk we have ever taken [00:51:41] Jeff: of the notes when you’re a kid and it’s like, choose four and you do the one up for. [00:51:50] Brett: Well, let’s do, let’s do a gratitude. Um, uh, since I’m, you know, hosting. Apparently, I’m not your fault, [00:52:00] my fault I’m hosting because I demand that. Um, Jeff, what do you have for. gratitude this week? [00:52:07] Jeff: Um, just a really quick and practical one. I ended up using it this week. Um, there are lots of ways to do batch file name renames. Um, but I use a, I use an app called, named Mangler more often than not, um, rather than writing a script or figuring out other ways to do it. It’s by this, um, developer many tricks, many magic tricks, many magic tricks. [00:52:29] Um, name mailers is something where, you know, if you’re like me and you’ve got just. A total digital mess half the time. And sometimes that’s even true. Just I take on a work project and it’s got a bunch of files in it, and I want to standardize the files, the file names. Like you just dump all the files in to the app and then you start, you start creating conditions and if it meets certain conditions, it’s going to just rename all those things, whatever you tell it. [00:52:55] Fast and pretty and such a practical, [00:53:00] practical thing. Um, it’s probably why I’ve never really learned, uh, scripting this problem because they’ve made it so easy that it doesn’t even justify me, like spending time on the front end. So that from then on, I have, you know, something automated, they just they’ve, they’ve done what needs to be done to, you know, they do rejects, they do find and replace all this stuff. [00:53:24] Um, so as a super practical example, I have a database of a hundred, some interviews for a project I’m working on and I changed the naming convention at some point because these interviews have been ongoing, um, over three or four years, this is just a chunk of them. And I just want it to standardize all the names. [00:53:41] And so I was able to dump all of the different files in and then just say, Hey, the ones that match this, I want them to look like the rest of these files. It’s just, it’s like, there’s all. And it’s well, well done. And [00:53:52] Brett: I love many tricks. Too many tricks could be a choice on its own [00:53:57] Jeff: Hold on. I’m pulling up many magic tricks. I know it’s called [00:54:00] matrix right now, which I think is a two person shop at least on the website. [00:54:04] Um, but oh, they make move. Of course. What was I thinking? Uh, yeah, ma many tricks has been featured in gratitude before I have not used anything else of theirs [00:54:14] Brett: What is the, what’s the, there’s like a file search tool that they make. Um, I’m blanking on what it’s called. It’s amazing. I will tag onto this to say, uh, and it may be a pick a mine in the future, but forklift the file [00:54:30] Christina: Yeah. [00:54:31] Brett: which is like the opposite of well com a competitor to Pathfinder, uh, forklift. [00:54:39] If you select a bunch of files and hit return, which in macro S would be how you rename a file, you hit return. It will pop up a name, Mangler style dialogue that you can use search and replace and red Jack. To Rena and S and sequential, naming to rename multiple files and it’s built [00:55:00] into like, that’s, it’s not a reason to buy it on its own. [00:55:04] If all you need to do as battery named files, uh, named Megler is amazing. But if you want a file manager that can also incorporate that kind of functionality, forklift is awesome. [00:55:18] Jeff: That’s great. There’s also, I mean, I should add too, like you can run scripts through, um, named Mangler, but also you can just, you can save like essentially templates. So like if there’s a, I get, I get a lot of files from people. Like I sometimes manage interview teams and the qualitative work that I do. So if you know that you’re going to be getting just a ton of things for people, you can use name Mangler and a template, just make sure that you’re like making sure those are like standardized every time you can do this through. [00:55:45] I’ve done it through Hazel, or it’s just like, there’s a folder. And if it goes in there, then things happen. But man, I just want to say name mango. I love you. And despite the fact that I can do some of this stuff elsewhere, that’s what I reach for. It’s like what we were talking about last [00:56:00] week with, um, with Jessie’s apps, uh, with task, paper and bike. [00:56:04] And all of those is the kind of thing where it’s like, I use it all the time because there is almost no time between me deciding I need it. And me using it. There’s like no obstacles in that space. It just feels very natural. Like, like I know I want to lift my arm and I just lifted my arm. Anyway. I’ll stop there. [00:56:20] Brett: man. I kind of want to make, I kind of want to pick moon for mine this week, [00:56:25] Christina: Oh, yeah. [00:56:25] Brett: make this like, uh, to make this a many tricks week, but I will wait. Um, I know Patrick has to, are we going to allow [00:56:34] Jeff: Ooh, that’s fun. Yeah, of course. [00:56:37] Patrick: Well, and [00:56:38] Brett: us, give us a couple. [00:56:39] Patrick: well, because just like that, there’s, they’re small one trick ponies kind of, well, that’s not true of one of them, but, but they’re small. They both been around for a long time. They both been through, uh, several different developer hands. So they’re almost kind of like, uh, like different Stuart’s take them on and bring them [00:57:00] to that next point into that next level. [00:57:02] Right. Um, and they both have recently received, uh, updates , so, uh, they are, um, and maybe they’ve been covered before. I don’t know. I, I only listened back a certain. A certain amount, uh, but a jump cut for math. A jump cut is [00:57:20] Christina: Oh, yeah, it jumped. That’s great. [00:57:22] Patrick: yeah, a, a little, uh, uh, multiple clipboard application that lives in your menu bar. [00:57:28] Um, but that’s not the way that I ever access it is, uh, you know, I, I use the key command a to bring it up. Um, but, um, it recently received an upgrade and update. I’m going to actually receive two, uh, updates. Um, and, uh, the way it works is, you know, you’ve, you can hold, uh, I don’t know. I have a set. I just use the defaults on thing. [00:57:54] So I don’t know if it can do more, but, uh, it can hold up to 10. [00:58:00] Um, of your most recent, uh, copy actions, uh, most recent clipboard actions. Um, and so then you can, you know, paste them and go through like the ones that you saved and there’s a little key command to bring it up. And then, you know, you can just go through them by hitting 1, 2, 3, 4, or five. [00:58:19] And it’ll just give you like the first one, the last one, and the next, last you get what I’m saying. Right. Um, and then you can just pace those as you go along. So it’s great for like, if you want to take a piece of this message and a P little piece of, of this next one, and you want to just be able to paste on boom, boom, boom, and boom. [00:58:38] You can, you can do that and all through keyboard commands, and this is pretty straightforward. [00:58:45] Brett: it will blow. If someone is watching you use your computer, like if you’re sharing your screen over zoom, you will blow their fucking [00:58:53] Patrick: Yeah, they’ll go, wait, wait, what was that? How did you [00:58:55] Brett: when you go to copies back and paste, what you copied [00:59:00] and you didn’t lose your clipboard contents because you have a record. yeah. You will blow their mind. [00:59:05] Patrick: Will add you do it all like with your keyboard. So they don’t easily just see this magic [00:59:10] Brett: How did you just do that? What is this sorcery? [00:59:14] Patrick: This is very true. Um, and I use it all the time and I didn’t realize like how essential it was to me until it received an update. Um, and the first reason updated, received. Attempted to change that 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 selection behavior, where you could kind of jump back through your things. And as someone who just accepts defaults and then like something changes and like, I can’t figure out, okay, where was this in the read me? [00:59:43] I don’t remember this. Or like, where where’s the instructions for? Like, what am I doing now? And like, I was completely lost for several days. I was like, I don’t know how to, how to use my Mac because I don’t have this. Um, and it’s not working the way that I expect. Um, [01:00:00] and, uh, then, um, a little update came out like a couple of days later where, uh, the developer, um, I’m not sure the developers, uh, name, uh, um, [01:00:11] Jeff: Steve cook, [01:00:13] Patrick: cook. [01:00:13] Yeah. [01:00:14] Jeff: get hub handles snark. [01:00:16] Patrick: Okay. There you go. He, he, uh, Obviously released an update because he got that same like, oh, what’s happening to me from like several other, uh, people and decided to change that behavior back to the way that it was, uh, as the default and that made my life a lot happier. So jump cut, highly recommend it. [01:00:37] It’s one of those little things that you’ll start relying on. And then when did you do, uh, you’re hooked? Um, it’s kind of like addiction. Um, and the other things we do you guys talk about on the show? Um, all right. Uh, the next, uh, other one that has received a recent update that I don’t know, like I haven’t seen this written about anywhere because like, you know, [01:01:00] I don’t know. [01:01:00] Y’all are old school. You’ll remember back in the day, uh, when Quicksilver was all the rage. [01:01:05] Brett: yes. Oh my God. [01:01:07] Jeff: I almost picked, I almost picked, I almost picked quicks over today. Just for fun. Just to go [01:01:12] Christina: fun. Cause [01:01:13] Jeff: and give it the attitude. Yeah, the gratitude. It always deserved from me. Anyway. [01:01:17] Patrick: Well then, so, um, Quicksilver is, uh, well, they call it like a launch. Your app is kind of wrong, you know, it’s, it’s kind of along the Alfred sort of, you know, it can do all sorts of things. It can even do that. Fancy, you know, multiple clipboard history thing, uh, that, uh, [01:01:37] Christina: I was going to say I, I was going to say, I use, I use Alfred for mine, but I’ve used jump cut in the past, but, but I [01:01:43] Patrick: exactly. Yeah. And, and quit and Quicksilver has it built into, but I, I never really got the hang or the, or the habit of using that one. I really do mainly use it almost essentially for app launching and, and finding documents and launching those quickly and whatnot. [01:01:59] Brett: [01:02:00] So are you saying that Quicksilver is still an app? [01:02:03] Christina: I actually just looked this up. It is. [01:02:06] Patrick: It is still an act and it has a new steward. [01:02:10] Um, you know, um, uh, his name is Jonathan Levi and he reached out to me about a month ago. Uh, actually probably a little bit more about, about six weeks ago saying, Hey, I, uh, you know, I’m reaching out to you cause I’m, I’m kind of the new steward for Quicksilver and we just updated it to like work on M when max and the whole nine yards. [01:02:33] Jeff: shit. I’m looking at the update [01:02:36] Patrick: Yes. Uh, and, and it’s, it’s back in action and we have, uh, we have a good future plan for it and we’re going to take good care of it. And I know back in the day, um, I was, I was told that between you and Merlin man, Th that you are the two that got quick silver, like all the attention that it ever got, like, you know, and I would really [01:03:00] appreciate it if you let folks know that, Hey, it’s back, it’s back in business, baby. [01:03:05] Um, and so here I am fulfilling my promise. Quicksilver is now a 2.0 release, I believe. But no, he’s very committed to it. Uh, and, uh, and, uh, I, I mean, I couldn’t be happier and it literally came right at the time, right before I bought one of the new MacBook airs. [01:03:23] Uh, so it’s like, oh my gosh, your timing couldn’t have been more perfect because I am literally in need of this right now. Um, yeah, he says, uh, you know, um, well my constant prodding I’ve finally managed to get them back under, uh, the hood and please inform me the Quicksilver 2.0 is now available. Uh, this. [01:03:42] Includes a ton of major updates and improvements with even more to come. But here are my few of my favorites support for Al apple Silicon, uh, zoom plugin for launching meetings, Twitter updated Twitter plugin integration with reminders, app ability to automatically update catalog results. Whenever you change files a still [01:04:00] a hundred percent free, uh, and much, much more. [01:04:03] Um, and he’s yeah, seems like a really, uh, really decent and committed guy, highly recommended. [01:04:10] Brett: So, this is exciting. Like I’m a launch bar guy And I’m not switching anytime soon. Launch bar is just, I know it’s so well can’t function without it, but I started with Quicksilver. And the first time I heard of Merlin Mann was because of a quick silver post. And this is, this is. I didn’t become a Mac user until 2004. [01:04:36] Me quick. Silver was like the first reason I thought, oh my God, max are amazing was because of Quicksilver. So this is very exciting news. That there’s a 2.0, and I’m definitely going to try it. I’m pretty sure I’ll like, I never, like I’ve been using launch bars since, before Alfred existed. I didn’t switch to Alvarez. [01:04:58] Like I, [01:04:58] love launch bar, [01:05:00] but holy shit. Yeah, [01:05:02] Patrick: yeah. Well, and I think that’s kind of the thing, right? Is you find that thing that worked for you and you just want it to work forever. You don’t ever want to switch. So this is definitely something for the people who, who have, have been using Quicksilver all this time. I used it like, even though it crashed all the time for me, uh, over the past year and a half, I mean, it was just, it was hilarious whenever I would hit the key command for a quick solver and it wouldn’t come up, I did. He hit my remapped key command for spotlight. And the only thing I use spotlight for was Quicksilver enter to relaunch Quicksilver after it [01:05:43] Brett: Right. Yeah. it always [01:05:46] Patrick: literally did that for two years. [01:05:49] Brett: to launch launch launch bar. [01:05:51] Patrick: Exactly. So, so yes, this is definitely for those people that are, are married to Quicksilver and didn’t [01:06:00] realize that their wife got a new dress. [01:06:03] Jeff: I, I had to say two things. One brew install, Quicksilver works. Um, and secondly, I’m not shitting you that. To make that my pick today. Um, I, because whenever I do think about what kind of apps that I want to pick for this, this moment in our podcast podcast, I ended up thinking back to Quicksilver because it was, I was, I started with max in 2002 and it was, it was my first experience as a Mac user with S with the developer, essentially showing me, Hey, look at this shit, you can do either stuff you can do here that they don’t really, they don’t have a way for you to do. [01:06:42] Um, and, and that felt so like subversive and fun. And, but also just felt like natural. It just felt like it was, it was, it was a behavior that I, once I used it, I couldn’t believe it. Wasn’t built into the computer already. Um, so [01:06:56] Patrick: I, and I will say that part of, part of the fun about [01:07:00] Quicksilver too, was the mysteriousness behind the developer. If you remember that there was this whole, like, like, like mythos behind, like [01:07:10] Jeff: is black tree. [01:07:11] Patrick: thing. Right. And, and, um, Merlin Mann did a, did a whole thing about when he posted about Quicksilver about like, this is some shady developer, like no one knows who this is, but they obviously have some dark magic they’re working with here sort of thing. [01:07:27] And, and so that made it also kind of attractive and fun to use. And, you know, and unfortunately the, the new developer is a perfectly public white guy. So, you know, no, no, no, no mystery there. [01:07:42] Brett: Underscore Y um, cool. All Right, So. [01:07:48] Patrick: Got that reference, Brett. [01:07:51] Brett: I’m going to pick, I’m gonna pick a, I’m going to pick moon. I was originally going to pick who to spot. I’m going to save it for another week, [01:08:00] unless I’ve already covered it. I’ve lost track already, but moon, uh, also from many tricks, like named Mangler is a window manager that it has superseded All others. [01:08:14] For me, it gives me the ability to use the, uh, the yellow. No, the green and the traffic lights and a window. Uh, I can use that to draw where I want the window to appear on the screen. It gives me keyboard shortcuts to move a window to like the full left half of the screen, the full right. half of the screen. [01:08:41] And it gives me the ability to take snapshots. So I get all of my windows for all of my OpenAPS positioned exactly the way I want them split across the screen, across multiple screens away. I want them, I can save that snapshot. And then the next time all of those apps are running. I can choose that [01:09:00] snapshot, which you can also do through bunch by the way. [01:09:03] Uh, and, and it will automatically position all of those apps and all of their windows exactly the way I had them before. And it is to, to me, And, and I have some experience I speak from a place of knowledge. It is the best window manager, um, moon. That’s my, that’s my, that’s my spiel. [01:09:31] Jeff: is this voodoo about dragging? I’m looking. I have moon, [01:09:37] Brett: I can draw, I can draw exactly where I want this screen. to go. It’s amazing. It’s awesome. And I can do it all with keyboard shortcuts too. I can hit command. Actually. I hit hyper space for me and it pops up a grid on my screen and I can just draw where I want the window to appear. It’s it’s it’s beautiful. [01:09:59] Okay. [01:10:00] [01:10:00] Jeff: All right, Christina. [01:10:02] Christina: All right. So, uh, great pics and super excited that that Quicksilver is back because like, um, everyone mentioned, like that was kind of one of my OG like Mac user. Like once I went like full time on the Mac apps and one of the things that really made me go be like, this is the best. Um, okay. So this is actually a relatively new, um, discovery for me. [01:10:23] So I have, uh, for a lot of the video stuff that I have to do, which will we talked about sometimes that requires me converting things, um, in and out of, uh, various codecs and whatnot. And so the best library to do that with would of course be FF impact. And FFN can be really powerful as, as kind of a converter package. [01:10:43] But the problem is, is that the interface, even though I’m fairly adept, you know, when the terminal is ridiculously complicated and, and, and to like, uh, remember what everything is that you’re doing, it is, it is honestly, I don’t have enough room in my brain to remember all that stuff. So I was [01:11:00] looking for a good gooey, a good front end for FFmpeg, and I found one it’s called FF works. [01:11:05] So the website is FF works.net. Version three is out. Now it’s a Mac app. Um, it, that, uh, that uses the FFmpeg binary, but gives you a really great modern kind of front end, if you’re wanting to. Convert your media, you can drag and drop things. If you’re wanting to get more information about, you know, like what sorts of, of a file formats need to do. [01:11:27] Um, if you need to add in like you want to have presets or add in subtitle support or do anything else, it’s basically a really great way of, of using FFmpeg, but without having to know every single thing about the man page, um, it’s a, it’s like 22 pounds. Um, I got the demo version and I really liked it. [01:11:46] And I was like, yeah, I’m buying this so [01:11:49] Brett: has use, give a price in, [01:11:52] Christina: well, [01:11:52] Jeff: I th I thought we had agreed on euros. [01:11:54] Christina: Sorry. It is Euro’s and it is your as I was wrong. So, so, so it was, it was 22 euros. I don’t know what the, what the [01:12:00] conversion is. Well, I don’t know. I I’ve. [01:12:03] Jeff: Oh, no, wait, wait. I wasn’t dogging on the same pounds. I actually forgot that. No, I’m just saying we, I was pretending like we had an agreed upon regular currency that wasn’t the U S dollar. [01:12:13] Christina: yeah, no, no, I don’t actually know what the, I mean, I can open up, I guess, Alfred right now and say, uh, you know, like, um, you know, [01:12:20] Brett: I’m just going to go to [01:12:21] purchase now. [01:12:23] Jeff: It looks awesome. [01:12:25] Brett: Eh, one, let me with that interim email address, but Yeah. [01:12:28] no, I have published articles on my blog with like aliases. You can add for FFM peg because the command line options are insane. This makes perfect sense to me. [01:12:40] Christina: yeah. And it’s it, it’s a great app. It’s, it’s frequently updated. Um, and, uh, and so I couldn’t be more happy with this. It’s from a company called OSTP bites and, and I don’t really know much about them except that I think they’re German. Um, so again, sorry for getting your currency wrong. Um, but it is. [01:12:58] Really, really fantastic. This was [01:13:00] a recent discovery of mine and it has made doing a lot of the stuff that I do a lot easier because the fact of the matter is like you can use compressor and you can use whatever Adobe thing is and whatnot for converting video files. But a lot of times that does not honestly work as well, especially if you’re dealing with what video, stuff like that. [01:13:15] Those things are really optimized for a lot of pro workflows. And even a lot of those workflows, the dirty secret is they’re usually using FFmpeg somewhere under the hood. Um, but uh, for me, for the stuff that I want to do especially quickly, um, this has been really, really useful. And so I’m a really big fan. [01:13:34] Brett: So that’s $23 and 24 cents in USD. I will also, I will also throw in a mention. Um, so there’s, uh, a developer that makes an app called Downey, which is basically, uh, [01:13:49] Christina: DL [01:13:50] Brett: Yep. It’s YouTube They also make an app called permute, which is basically, uh, uh, FF. [01:13:57] Christina: It is, it is in permute is great. [01:14:00] Here’s my only issue with permute permute is slow. Um, and it is slow. And, and it, I think that if, if, uh, if Charlie Monroe, um, the developer, I think that if, if he were able to maybe use whatever FFmpeg he’s got under the bus, if he were to upgrade it, um, to be compiled with some different, um, uh, flags, it might be better. [01:14:21] But this was actually what led me to finding a replacement to that. Cause I don’t, I don’t want to in any way, like the shit on the work of permanent, cause it’s a beautiful app and it works really well. And Downey is incredible. And is one of those apps that if you’re not a setup user, it’s worth the price to just buy it [01:14:38] Brett: But if you are a set [01:14:40] Christina: but if you are a set user, it’s included exactly in permute as well. [01:14:43] But I was running into some problems where I was downloading. Okay. So what happens sometimes is that if you’re downloading things from YouTube, Oh, just give the elongated backstory. I was downloading something from YouTube. It was downloading in, um, web P and, or webcam or [01:15:00] whatever. The, the, um, you know, uh, whatever format, you know, um, uh, YouTube uses and I needed it in an MP4 and it was just going to take like forever to do it on my M one, um, in a. [01:15:15] Then permute and I did it, but I was like looking, I was like, okay, this is, I’ve run into this a number of times now, and I need something faster. And, and so I was like, well, I could just feed this through and have aliases. Cause I do have some aliases for some FFmpeg commands. Like I have one that’ll create, um, an MP4 from an animated, um, Jeff, um, and some other things. [01:15:35] You know, that’s just, I was like, I need to find a, there has to be an alternative. And that was when I found FF works. And I was like, I did a side by side and there’s just no comparison in terms of the, the speed. So permute is great and it’s beautiful, but this is a lot faster. It also has features like there’s a watch folder support. [01:15:54] So if you have certain actions you wanted to automatically happen, you know, [01:16:00] by having something in a specific folder, you can set that up so it can be scripted. I think I, um, I, anyway, I, I discovered this like, like two or three weeks ago and I’m a really big fan. So if you’re looking for something that’s faster than permute and is not going to make you want to kill yourself, like the FFmpeg syntax, this is, this is for you. [01:16:20] Brett: Alright. So what I really appreciated about Christina’s last episode of download for GitHub was she, she said in a GitHub sponsored YouTube video that she pronounces it Jif. So silent, silent raise of hands. No one will be outed here who says Jif [01:16:41] Jeff: I say gift Jif. [01:16:43] Brett: gift. Jeff. All right. Who says, get. Okay. All right. We have, we have a pretty even split here with Jeff playing both sides. We get a [01:16:54] Jeff: I do. There’s, there’s the, there’s like a rabbinical story about a guys out in the field and he [01:17:00] doesn’t have his prayer book. It’s not a pray. And the rabbi says when that’s going to happen, just like the alphabet and God will order the words. So I do that with the gift JIP, you know, God knows, God knows what I’m referring to. [01:17:15] Brett: I honestly, I will, I will no longer go to. [01:17:18] the mat over this. I don’t give a shit what people say, but I personally, I personally am a Jif guy and it was very nice to hear Christina say that she also says Jif, [01:17:30] Jeff: Reconfirming your, [01:17:31] Brett: I will, I will not. I will not get into this fight on social media or elsewhere. [01:17:36] Patrick: yeah, no, I, I agree with [01:17:37] Brett: I don’t care. [01:17:38] Patrick: I agree with you, you know, uh, I won’t even correct you anymore. I used to, but I won’t now, [01:17:46] Brett: Oh, yeah, no, I absolutely. I know what you meant. I intention was there. I know what your intention [01:17:52] Christina: Totally, you know, and I, and I even had people in the comments already who were like making, making things about it and they’re like, oh, I’ll do it with my giraffe fix. [01:18:00] And I was like, cool, I’ll drink it with my GYN. Like I, you know, I mean, like I like, like, like, [01:18:07] Patrick: that’s [01:18:08] Brett: Yup. Yup. That is exactly how [01:18:11] Jeff: I also, I also do that with Ghillean. Well, should I say Gillian, Gillian Welch. [01:18:15] Patrick: Uh, [01:18:16] Christina: yeah. And you’re right. And I, and I, and I think it is Ghillean, isn’t it? [01:18:20] Jeff: I think it is [01:18:20] Patrick: Yes, it is [01:18:21] Jeff: I think I finally figured that. [01:18:22] Patrick: yes. [01:18:23] Jeff: Yeah. Or, or if you’re a for Ghazi [01:18:25] Brett: Jillian, [01:18:26] Jeff: geeky or a guy. [01:18:27] Brett: and she can deal with [01:18:28] Jeff: Yeah, that’s fine. She’s never going to be on this podcast [01:18:32] Christina: This is true. [01:18:33] Jeff: I’d be happy to have her on. Um, all right. Should we wrap this up? [01:18:38] Brett: Patrick. Thanks for being here. [01:18:40] Jeff: Thank you, [01:18:40] Patrick: Oh, no, it totally was my honor and pleasure. And uh, I mean, I, I can’t even believe I, I get to like, no, you people let alone be in the same podcast room with you. So yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m seriously blown [01:18:57] Brett: I feel much the same way. I really appreciate [01:19:00] you being here. [01:19:01] Patrick: no, I, I don’t mean to fanboy a bit here, but you know, Brett knows how I feel about him. Cause we’ve, we’ve known each other for, for quite some time. Um, and, uh, it’s a pleasure to meet you Jeffrey, but, uh, Christina Warren, I wasn’t joking. I was I’ve I’ve I really have been following your work for quite some time. [01:19:18] And then you’re kind of a rock star, Irish to me. Uh, you know, um, I’m one of those people who thinks that like, you know, like, okay, you can have your foo fighters or whatever, you know, I, I’m a fan of tech journalist. Thank you very much. So like, you know, like, you know, you know, Leo LaPorte some God to me, you know, or like you guys like back kind of level of, of fanboy when it comes to tech journalists, [01:19:45] Christina: Well, thank you so much. That makes me feel so that’s so great. That’s like, Aw, that’s so nice of you. And I feel so completely undeserving of that, but thank you so much. That’s it was, it was great talking with you. Um, and, and thank you for all the work that you’re doing, you know, um, and, and by their [01:20:00] advocacy and, and it’s so important. [01:20:02] So keep that up [01:20:04] Patrick: Thank you guys for what you’re doing. I [01:20:06] Brett: We didn’t get a chance to talk about what Jeff is doing. Um, but I really feel like I need to connect you to, uh, outside of [01:20:15] this podcast, because I think you would take a real interest in what Jeff has working on right now is. [01:20:21] Christina: you would chew from with just what little, um, I, I heard from Patrick and the stuff that you work on. I think that a lot of just research project, you guys definitely need to connect after this pod. [01:20:31] Patrick: You can can [01:20:32] Brett: guys should get you guys live okay. Different cities, but [01:20:36] Jeff: meet, we can meet in the river. [01:20:38] Patrick: Well, I come over to his side of the river a lot. I mean, when you live in St. Paul, you kind of are forced to do that. [01:20:44] Now I live in St. Paul Minneapolis. That’s [01:20:45] Brett: you two together. Eventually. [01:20:47] Jeff: All right. that. [01:20:48] sounds good. right. [01:20:51] Brett: Hey, everybody gets some sleep. [01:20:53] Jeff: Get some steep [01:20:54] Christina: some [01:20:54] Patrick: God knows. I could use some. [01:20:56]

In which the hosts discuss botox, mental health, hardware, and software. Notably absent is any discussion of Taylor Swift, pop culture, or porn habits. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Show Links Good Times Do By Friday: Celery and Cum OWC Clingons Framework OWC Express 4M2 Playdate Bike Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 285 [00:00:00] Jeff: Hello and welcome to overtired. I am Jeff Severns Guntzel and here with me today are Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra and, um, and I can see them, but you can’t y’all look great. It’s good to see ya. Let’s let’s do a podcast. [00:00:23] Christina: Thank you. It was great to see both of you as well and hear you, um, for, for the listeners. We’re not trying to be, you know, like exclusionary, we just don’t want to Polish a video podcast. We just don’t. We, we talked about it. [00:00:33] Brett: of these, one of these days, I’m going to get you guys to do a video podcast, but I understand the reservations. [00:00:41] Jeff: I did shower today. [00:00:42] Brett: We do fucking look good though. [00:00:44] Jeff: There’s [00:00:44] Christina: too. But like, yeah, I’m at this weird angle with where my laptop is. So [00:00:49] Brett: why? Why are you like your camera’s going up your nose? Why is [00:00:54] Christina: yeah, because I’m using the camera that is on my laptop rather than using the other camera, which is better positioned because I [00:01:00] wanted to stare at the screen and it’s on my lap. So. [00:01:02] Brett: I appreciate the eye contact. I will say like when you’re looking off screen and it feels like you’re just giving us the cold shoulder, just cause you’re reading your screen. It feels weird. [00:01:14] Christina: though I’m actually giving you eye contact, but it looks like [00:01:16] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. And, and Brett, Brett listeners looks like he always does on zoom, which is like the elevator got stuck between floors. Like your head is in the lower half and there’s a whole, top half. [00:01:29] Brett: well, so cause, cause below, below my torso I’m I’m I, I’m still not comfortable with how much weight it, but on, [00:01:39] Christina: This is terrible audio. [00:01:40] Jeff: it. Sorry everybody. Sorry about that. Everybody just know that breaths just know that breaths a new headphone covers matches hoodie. [00:01:48] Brett: Oh yeah. My socks match too. I would show you, but nobody on a podcast cares what my socks look like. They’re NASA socks. [00:01:58] Jeff: You know, what’s weird is I looked over at my phone [00:02:00] just now and there are sponsors calling off the hook and that people that don’t even work with us yet, the one I get a sponsorship on this show right now, they’re just hearing this here and they’re going, you know, [00:02:09] Brett: some. What, what sponsors are calling Jeff? [00:02:12] Jeff: uh, it looks like I’m getting a call from, uh, is that ARP? [00:02:17] That’s one of them. Um, [00:02:20] Brett: Do you guys, do you guys get letters from the ARP? [00:02:24] Jeff: no. [00:02:25] Brett: I do regularly on the reg I get letters congratulating me on my retirement and offering me like platinum level membership with all of the perks that come for. What is it? 54 plus I’m 40 I’m 43. I’m [00:02:45] Christina: I was going to say, I was, I was like, as like, you’re not in any way, shape or form on their target list. I will say if I start getting things from them, that is when, you know, despite like my commitment to only being 29 forever. That that is when I will like, [00:03:00] be very upset and I will [00:03:01] Jeff: It’s not going to feel good. [00:03:03] Christina: No, it’s not. [00:03:04] Cosmetics are people too [00:03:04] Brett: can we skip way down our topic list to talk about Christina’s Botox and fillers? [00:03:09] Christina: We totally can. [00:03:10] Jeff: Yeah, sure. [00:03:11] Christina: If you want [00:03:12] Brett: So, so on our list, it says Christina spent $2,500 on Botox and fillers ask me anything. So Christina, [00:03:20] Christina: Yeah. [00:03:20] Brett: a billboard just went up in my town, my town of 30,000 people, uh, with like average Botox and fillers come in today for your consultation. [00:03:31] And like, I don’t see Wynnona having high enough beauty standards to really sustain a practice of Botox and fillers. But here’s my question. Here’s my AMA, what the fuck is the. [00:03:46] Christina: Yeah. So it is, um, some sort of like gel substance. Sometimes it can be other things that they basically put in. Like I got some of my chins, my chin now looks a little bit more like pointed, like again, I’m at a [00:03:58] Brett: I wasn’t going to say anything, but yeah, [00:04:00] it’s a beautiful Chan. [00:04:01] Christina: Thank you. Um, so I got some there and I also got some in my cheekbones to add. [00:04:04] Um, and I have, uh, according to the doctor, who’s super hot. She was like, you have very good bone structure. And I was like, thank you. And, um, uh, [00:04:12] Brett: You have very good bone structure, but here, let me fix that for. [00:04:15] Christina: well, I mean, she was like, it’s really honestly that the stuff in my cheekbones, it’s more preventative rather than anything else. Um, and, and so, but, but it’s, the idea is like, as you age, like you lose fat deposits in your face, which can make you. [00:04:30] You know, more, more jelly and, and more like angular and, and older. And so the idea with fillers is that you can re add in kind of that, that, you know, it fills things to give you like a more full appearance. Um, and, um, and they can do other things too, like for people who might have, again, like if you wanted to add more like contouring to, again, like your, your chin or, or if you didn’t have like high cheek bones, or if you wanted to, um, uh, add in some areas where you have a lot of wrinkles, it can be useful. [00:04:59] Whereas [00:05:00] Botox is botulism that basically gets rid of wrinkles. [00:05:06] Brett: So, okay. You can see my face right now. None of our listeners. But what do I need? Like if you were giving me a consult [00:05:14] Christina: I have no idea. [00:05:15] Brett: and filler place, it’s not, that’s not your profession. [00:05:19] Christina: is not my profession. [00:05:20] Brett: just, you receive it [00:05:22] Christina: I receive it. I trust them. And I’m like, what will keep me looking as young as possible, as long as possible? Like what will make me continue to look as good as possible? And like the fillers will last two years, so they’re expensive, but it’s a good investment. [00:05:35] Whereas Botox is like, I don’t know. It depends on if you get Botox or Dysport because their competitors and they last, I don’t know, four months, five months, it varies. But, um, my one regret. As that I didn’t start getting Botox in my twenties. Um, and I would have started earlier because it it’s, it’s preventative. [00:05:55] So if you do it earlier, for instance, like, I naturally don’t have a lot of lines in my face and stuff, [00:06:00] but as you get older, like everybody, it happens. And so if you start doing it earlier, then you can prevent like the wrinkles and shit from coming. Um, so it’s, it’s preventative. Um, people can go way overboard completely, but if you do it in moderation, like I would have started doing it at like 25, 26. [00:06:17] If, if I could go back in time, that’s what I would’ve done. And it, and I wouldn’t have gone like every three or four months, I probably would’ve gone like every six, every seven. And it would have been small amounts, but it, it would have been the case. And like now, I mean, again, the, the listeners can’t see, but like I have movement, you know what I mean? [00:06:33] Like my face isn’t [00:06:34] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, [00:06:34] Christina: but, but, but when I smile, when I smile, like I don’t have lines on my eyeline’s like, it’s, it’s just a different, it’s just. [00:06:43] Brett: That’s weird. So [00:06:45] Jeff: was not, [00:06:46] Brett: oh, go [00:06:47] Jeff: go ahead. Oh, No, [00:06:48] Brett: Jeff, please, please. [00:06:49] Jeff: I was not until we talked, we talked about this a little before the show last week, and like, I was not aware of. Uh, Botox and moderation. And though, as the way you describe it, [00:07:00] and especially just generally I wasn’t aware of its use as you describe it. And it’s super interesting to me and it makes me think it must be much more common than I realized, because I think I still have as an old man who remembers the early days of Botox. [00:07:11] Like I think I still have that impression like that. And it’s clearly a way outdated sense of things. [00:07:17] Christina: Yeah. Well, the thing is, is that most people who get it, you wouldn’t know that they have it, you know, when they have like the Botox face, most people who have it. Um, it’s not one of those things that a lot of people openly admit I will cause I don’t care. Uh, and I think I look great, but, um, uh, also like reduce the stigma, um, you know, of that sort of thing. [00:07:37] Um, but I think that like a lot of people, like if you get it done well, and that’s the same, I think with any sort of like plastic surgery or anything, the idea is that people can’t tell like the goal should be not to. Someone’s like, oh my God, you know, you look so different, but oh yeah, you look really good, you know? [00:07:54] Jeff: right, right, right. Totally. Yeah. That’s cool. [00:07:57] Brett: My girlfriend is five years old, [00:08:00] older than me. And I’ll let you do the math. I won’t divulge her age on air, but, uh, [00:08:06] Jeff: dummy. [00:08:06] Brett: she like, she’s a, she’s a hippie she’s, she’s taking care of her face with like pippy facial products, her whole life. And, uh, she is just now starting to get maybe some like laugh lines, but she has almost no wrinkles on her face. [00:08:24] But I have to say as someone, you more in the vicinity of 50 than 20 myself, uh, like I just, I kind of expect that in a woman, I, I, I love every line on her face, not to be overly Moshi about it, but, but I, at what age do you think it, it becomes pointless to try to keep avoiding wrinkles. [00:08:50] Christina: I mean, I don’t know if it’s about avoiding wrinkles of it. It is. You just don’t want to feel like you look not like yourself. I don’t know. I mean, and it’s up to everyone. I mean, there are some people who have no problem with the aging process [00:09:00] and who are really happy to do it. I’m not [00:09:02] Brett: excited about my wrinkles. I love my wrinkles. Like every time I see one I’m like, oh, I look distinguished. I’m [00:09:08] Jeff: dude, who lives in podcasts from his basement? [00:09:11] Christina: I was going to say, but you’re also, you’re also a man, which [00:09:14] means that society judges you completely differently. Uh, you also don’t have, uh, like a public facing on camera job. Um, not that anybody has ever commented on me looking old at all. In fact, most people think that I’m at least a decade younger than I am, which is [00:09:27] Brett: 29. [00:09:28] Christina: right, exactly. [00:09:29] But, but, but I, I want that to continue to be the place, right? Like it’s, it’s competitive. And, and if you look, if you don’t, you know, like youth sells, it just is what it is. And not everybody has that approach. Right? Like I’m, I’m completely open to people who are like, I have. Interest in doing this me, my personal white whale is I want to find out who Reese Witherspoon’s person is. [00:09:51] And I’m like, I I’m, I’m not even joking here. Like I’m, I’m trying to like work my contacts in Los Angeles to try to figure it out. Uh, if I do find out, I obviously [00:10:00] won’t be able to share publicly. Um, but like, cause I would pay whatever amount of money it would cost to have whoever her person is. Cause she looks great. [00:10:08] Like she looks older, but she doesn’t look old and she looks, she’s still playing roles of characters in her thirties when she’s in her mid forties, which is not common. Jennifer Lopez is a whole other thing. She claims she’s never had Botox or anything. I don’t know if I believe that I don’t really care, but Jennifer Lopez looks fucking stunning, you know? [00:10:28] Jeff: like for you to get to this information about Reese Witherspoon’s person, you would have to play a game. I, I call, I only played in LA. I call it how many questions does it take me to break the NDA? And so you sit with, because everyone you meet in LA LA is on some sort, right? And you just start asking questions and going. [00:10:48] I tell you the funniest example. Because it wasn’t technically a break, but I think it’s kind of fun. And it’s almost a ghost story. I was sitting with someone who was in charge of Tupac’s [00:11:00] archives and, um, and I said, I said, okay, okay, let’s play this game. I call break the NDA. I think I want to see how many questions it takes me to get to the point where you’re actually uncomfortable. [00:11:11] Right? Like if you’re willing, if you’re willing to play, you don’t have to answer when I get to that point. But I want to, I see how quick we can get to that point. Right. so I’m like, where is Tupac’s archive now? Like can’t say, okay. Okay. Okay. Do you have a big office or a small office? Can’t say, then I said, does Tupac ever come by? And they stopped and went? I can’t say No, I was like, yes. Two bucks a lot. Anyway, I highly recommend the game. It’s fun. [00:11:48] Christina: no, that’s okay. That’s a really good game. [00:11:50] Jeff: Goes better with alcohol. And I’m not, if you, if you’re not a drinker out there listening, I’m not trying to encourage that sort of thing. But I found that it goes better. [00:11:59] Christina: I love it. [00:12:00] [00:12:00] Jeff: And I I’m careful, like if I, since I’m about to break the NDA, I don’t go any further. I just try to get, try to get using less obvious questions. [00:12:09] Try to get to the point where they’re like, okay, we gotta stop. Everyone’s a willing participant, [00:12:14] Brett: So this has been a really roundabout way to get to our mental health corner. [00:12:20] Christina: It has been, but it’s [00:12:21] Jeff: but here we are in the corner. [00:12:22] Christina: I was going to say, but it actually fits. Cause like for me, I got that stun when I was in Atlanta and I won’t lie. Like it does help my mental health. Also. Not that there is, this is not my excuse for getting Botox. My mom likes to use this as my excuse for getting Botox. [00:12:36] She’s like, oh, it helps your migraines too. And I’m like, well, yeah, but like, let’s be very clear why I’m doing. [00:12:42] Jeff: But it does help migraines. [00:12:44] Christina: Yeah, at least, I mean, for a lot of people, it does. And in fact, and I don’t because I don’t get it for that reason, I would feel weird. I’m trying to go through the insurance process, but insurance will to a certain degree to Padana until you have, [00:13:00] and how many hoops you jump through. If you have like chronic, chronic migraines, they will, at this point, I’ll actually cover Botox treatments because, um, they’re not sure why, but there’s something about, you know, like whatever is, um, I guess like in, in the botulism or whatever, however it’s released that does something that really helps a lot of people who have like chronic migraines [00:13:22] Jeff: Interesting. [00:13:23] Brett: Speaking of insurance before we go to mental health, I got to tell you this great news I got. So I currently, I have no teeth on the bottom, right of my jaw. I [00:13:33] Christina: Oh, wow. [00:13:34] Jeff: You [00:13:35] Brett: easy from their back, no teeth. And my, my dental insurance had said they were going to cover $1,000 of the $6,000 bill. It was going to take to, to have these teeth removed, have the implants put in and have new teeth. [00:13:54] And I just got a letter from insurance with I’d never appealed. [00:14:00] Like I have a flex spending account that was going to cover it. So I never appealed. But all of a sudden I got her letter that said, we plan to pay $5,000, which leaves me with like one grand out of pocket on, on these new teeth. I’m going to be able, I haven’t been able to chew on the right side of my mouth for almost a year now. [00:14:20] Christina: That’s amazing. That’s so good. [00:14:23] Jeff: Now that [00:14:23] Brett: It is awful because [00:14:24] Jeff: strong, left side. [00:14:26] Brett: if you really enjoy the flavor of something, you want to taste it with your whole tongue and you don’t realize how much that matters until you’re not chewing on one side of your mouth. And you’re only tasting with half your tongue. It [00:14:38] Christina: no, totally. I am. I had a root canal, um, a couple of years ago. It’s how I found my, my current dentist who is great. Cause she, she looked at and she was like, you need a root canal, go to this guy, get it done. I was like, awesome. And I had, um, I guess leading up to that, I thought before it got bad enough, like, I guess I’d just been kind of naturally only eating on one half of my face. [00:14:58] And it was a similar sort of thing [00:15:00] where I had to kind of get used to again. I was like, oh right, okay. So I can chew on both sides of my mouth now. [00:15:05] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I’m looking forward to it. It’ll be nice. [00:15:08] Jeff: That’s awesome. [00:15:09] Brett: Anyway, mental health. Hey, speaking of doctors though, Christina, D do you want to do a quick address? [00:15:16] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say let’s let’s let’s do a quick ad break before we get into our mental health corner. [00:15:21] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:15:21] Christina: So if you’re looking for a new dentist and someone to kind of like either, you know, fix your teeth problems, uh, you know, that finding and booking a doctor who’s right for you and does not need to be a terrible experience. But, you know, there are a lot of questions when you’re going into that, like, will they take your insurance? [00:15:37] Will they understand your needs? Or will they be available when you can see them? Well, with Zoc doc, the answer can be refreshingly pain-free. Yes. So Zoc doc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance and are available when you need them read up on local doctors, get verified patient reviews and see what other real humans had to say about their visit. [00:15:59] [00:16:00] So that when you walk into the doc doctor’s office, you’re set up to see someone in your network who gets you go to Zoc doc.com, choose a time slot. And whether you want to see a doctor in person, or if you want to do a video visit and just like that, your book’s find the doctor that’s right for you and book an appointment that works for your schedule every month. [00:16:18] Millions of people use doc doc, and I’m one of them. It’s my go-to for whenever I need to find and book a doctor I’ve been using them for over a decade. It is absolutely my favorite service to use it’s way easier than going through whatever the website that your insurance company has. And you’re trying to figure out well, okay, who’s close to me. [00:16:36] Who takes my insurance. And then even if you do find them, like, how do I make an appointment? Zocdoc does all of that in one interface, in one step in the chaotic world of healthcare. Let Zoc doc be your trusted guide to find a quality doctor in a way that is surprisingly pain-free with Zoc doc. [00:16:52] You can get your docs in a row. [00:16:54] Brett: Uh, [00:16:56] Christina: Good to Zoc doc.com/overtired and download the Zoc [00:17:00] doc app for free. Then start your search for a top rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s Z O C D O c.com/overtired Zoc doc.com/overtired Zoc doc. You got it [00:17:18] Brett: Check it out today. [00:17:20] Race and Jake from State Farm [00:17:20] Jeff: A couple of notes on that, not the read, but the words itself. And I know we’re not really supposed to do That. but I heard docs in a row and immediately in my head, I went quack, quack, but then you don’t want to associate the word quack with, uh, any kind of healthcare. And that’s just a little note for the sponsor. [00:17:37] It goes both ways. [00:17:39] Christina: Honestly, it really does. And, and then when I hear quack, quack, I, I hear Aflac, which is a completely different type of insurance, which is not a sponsor of our podcast. Although, you know what, we would take their sponsorship because as classic overtired visitors know Brett and I have spent an inordinate amount of time talking about our favorite advertisements, which are usually insurance company [00:18:00] ads. [00:18:00] Brett: always insurance ads, [00:18:01] Christina: Always. [00:18:02] Jeff: bring us the lizard. Bring us the duck. [00:18:04] Brett: men. Do you, do you remember when Jake from state farm was white? had totally, I [00:18:12] Jeff: like when they replaced the data on good times [00:18:15] Brett: had totally forgotten, like at some point that the actor that played Jake from state farm had to have just been told everyone loves Jake from state farm, but Hey, take. [00:18:29] We’re getting someone younger and blacker than you to just take over this name that we’ve created for you. And we all, we, we all, it was easy. Like I never thought twice about it. [00:18:43] Jeff: the overlords knew it would be easy. [00:18:49] Brett: yeah. Jake from say farmers way hotter. Now I gotta say [00:18:53] Jeff: We [00:18:53] Brett: that he’s a handsome man. [00:18:55] Jeff: the [00:18:55] Christina: He is a handsome man also I’m now like going through, uh, an ADHD, like, [00:19:00] um, Wiki K whole spiral, because you said replace the dad on good times. And I was like, did they replace them or did they kill them off? And I couldn’t, I can’t. [00:19:07] Jeff: Right? Well, I think the dad at some point had a heart attack and died on the sh in the show [00:19:13] Christina: No that’s no, no, no, no. That’s a different show. [00:19:16] Jeff: That’s a different, that’s funny. Cause I, I feel bad about this because good times was an important show to [00:19:20] Christina: It wasn’t a very important show, but, but, but, but then you’ve had like the famous Sr roll down damn damn scene when, when he died. Yeah, no, I think there was a different show where they replaced the dad, but it was on good times. What I think happened was that John Amos, who was famously in roots, he was upset by the direction of the show because it went all JJ centric and he was like, this is becoming buffoonery. [00:19:42] And I don’t think that the important message that it’s spreading is good. And then he left. [00:19:47] Jeff: I just saw an interview with him about that. In what context though, was I on a rabbit hole? Not on you. Go into a rabbit hole, not on a rabbit hole. [00:19:55] Christina: Brett. So board let’s let’s let’s let’s let him talk about [00:19:57] Jeff: Good. [00:19:58] Brett: it’s just, I’ve never, I’ve never [00:20:00] seen good times. I have [00:20:01] Jeff: Oh my God. [00:20:02] Just started episode [00:20:03] Brett: It’s not a show I grew up with. [00:20:05] Jeff: Just started episode [00:20:07] Christina: Wow. How did you never did? So did you watch any of the Norman Lear [00:20:10] Brett: I did not watch TV as a kid, so I started watching TV, like for real, in like 1995. I never good times was never on my radar. [00:20:21] Christina: I mean, it ended before I was born, but like, I, I washed it in reruns probably around 95. It w they would have it, there [00:20:28] Brett: I was busy catching up on a decade of the Simpsons at [00:20:32] Christina: Totally. No, I had to say, like, you had better things, newer things to watch, but I as like, like, like, like a 12 year old, I was like watching, um, the, all the Norman Lear stuff. [00:20:42] Cause that was like when like TB land became a thing. And, and so, [00:20:47] Jeff: because I was watching it when it was first year. [00:20:49] Christina: but it was a great show. Is Janet Jackson’s first show Janet Jackson was on good times. [00:20:52] Jeff: and a and Lenny Kravitz is [00:20:54] Brett: You know who I just [00:20:56] Christina: no, no. She was on, she was on the Jefferson’s. [00:20:58] Jeff: Damn it. the Jefferson’s. [00:20:59] God, I’m [00:21:00] doing it all over the place. Edit, edit, edit, edit. [00:21:03] Brett: No, no. We’re keeping that last night, I was watching star Trek the next generation, and there was a little girl and I was like, I recognize those eyes and those cheekbones. And it took me a second, but I had just watched, uh, the original trilogy. Uh Spider-Man like a week before. And it immediately dawned on me that it was Kirsten Dunst in star Trek, the next generation playing a little girl, like young little girl. [00:21:35] It was, it was weird. [00:21:37] Christina: That’s amazing. No, I didn’t know. She was, I remember her an interview with the vampire, cause she’s like a year older than me and I was like, I want to kiss Brad Pitt. Um, I was very jealous. Um, but, but I didn’t realize she was that like, that’s awesome. [00:21:52] Brett: I had no idea and, and I could not believe it was her. I had to go through her whole filmography to find. [00:22:00] We at the end star Trek TNG, but anyway, Christie, and I’m curious about your mental health. [00:22:07] The Mental Health Corner [00:22:07] Christina: Well, as I alluded to beforehand, like it’s, it’s pretty good. Um, I, I’m glad to be back home. I was in Atlanta for a long time. That was stressful on a lot of levels. I’m glad to be back. Um, uh, my Botox and my fillers, you make me feel better. And, um, yeah, work is work is going well, which helps. Um, not everybody’s job is tied to their mental health, but mine certainly is. [00:22:29] So I’m in a good place. [00:22:32] Brett: Cool. That’s good to hear. I’m really happy. I’m really happy that other people are doing well. I’m doing fine, but Jeff, how are you? [00:22:42] Jeff: Um, I’m doing okay. I was so glad for, I didn’t get to say officially goodbye last episode. Cause I, I cut, I cut scenes to get dressed. Um, but it was really nice to have Alex on and have a conversation about mental health and medication and all that stuff. [00:23:00] And I’m pretty much in the same place I was where I’m trying to kind of work my way to the right, right medications and right. [00:23:05] Balance of medications and, and um, and I think I’m heading in the right direction. Like I’m ditching one next week for, uh, for a different one. And um, but it’s just been, uh, like I’ve said a few shows in a row it’s like, it’s such a focus of my day. Um, because I’m, I’m not like complacent about it, right? [00:23:27] Like I’m kind of, but on the other hand, I’m almost like overly vigilant about. What I’m feeling or experiencing based on the medications, but that’s because, I mean like the medications I’m taking and the words of my psychiatric nurse practitioner was like, these Can, hurt you really quickly if you’re not kind of monitoring, you know, what is it doing to your blood sugar? [00:23:46] And are you retraining retaining water? And is it because of this or this and all of this stuff? And it, it really like puts me in this circle where I’m just like trying, sometimes I’m just left kind of trying to remember how I get to this point in the first [00:24:00] place. Right. Like, you know, I started with no ma’am, I hadn’t taken any medications until pretty much right. [00:24:05] At the beginning of the pandemic coincidence. Um, before that I had taken no medications for anything really loved that first couple of years of it was, uh, sertraline and then Vyvanse together. But then that started to clearly be aggravating, other aspects of like undiagnosed parts of my mental illness. [00:24:24] And so that’s what led me to my current sort of cocktail that I’m working through. And man, it’s exhausting, [00:24:30] Brett: can we acknowledge that last week with, with Alex Cox, you very smoothly came out of the closet. As a bipolar person, like we have never discussed that on the show previously, it has always been tiptoed around. Um, because you, you, you, you were hesitant to mention that, but it came up very cleanly in the last episode. [00:24:58] And I just want to say welcome to the world [00:25:00] of bipolar people, man. [00:25:02] Jeff: you’ve already welcomed me. Brett was like the first person I consulted, but yes, I have a late diagnosis of bipolar one and it’s something that I’ve sort of been able to. Basically control my whole life, um, and have just generally sort of avoided conversations that lead towards that diagnosis or like therapists. [00:25:23] So just kind of missed it a little better, misunderstood it as something else. And I, part of the reason I don’t talk about it a lot is it’s still pretty new to me. And so I, I have a risk myself of like over pathologizing myself. And so the more I talk about it, the more I set into stone, a certain narrative, and it feels so fluid right now because I’m just trying to figure out how. [00:25:45] Um, sort of treated, I mean, the one thing that I, I was told multiple times after the diagnosis was that it’s like, Hey, good news. This is a very treatable thing. Right. And that seems totally true. I haven’t had any issues. I mean, it was like seven months ago was, [00:26:00] was the period of my life that led me towards this diagnosis. [00:26:03] I haven’t had any issues since taking medication that are related to like specifically like very manic or very depressed, or, you know, the kind of cliched things people think of when they think of bipolar, which of course is actually an infinite number of experiences for an infinite number of people. [00:26:20] Um, but I, I worry. That if I talked about it too much, early on, as I was still trying to understand it, that I would sort of set a narrative in stone that even I got trapped into, right. Like that it would limit, it would limit the way in which I think about our sort of, or sort of try to assess what my mental health situation is. [00:26:40] And so, so it was very easy with Alex talking about it, to just say, well, it makes sense for me to say that I knew at least Brett, I knew you were in there going, he did it. [00:26:48] Christina: No, I was so proud of you for, for doing that. And, um, and maybe it’s one of those things, like, because like the topic comes up, you pay more attention to it. But, um, Andy Dunn, who’s the, he was the [00:27:00] founder of Bonobos, um, which, you know, is like the clothing, um, uh, like men’s kind of clothing. He just wrote a book, um, where he talks publicly about, um, his bipolar diagnosis and, um, and how, I guess he found out when he was in his twenties and he was founding various startups. [00:27:17] And, and so his it’s actually a really good MRR, but I can’t recall. We talked before, like the last episode about how this isn’t discussed enough and we don’t see, I guess maybe public examples of people who are really successful and have connections, like talking about it. And, and he just published a book. [00:27:36] So. That’s good, but I also, I’m just really proud of you for feeling comfortable enough to be vulnerable and share that. And, [00:27:46] Jeff: Oh, it’s an easy space to do it in. Thanks to you too. [00:27:50] Brett: I, uh, I almost contacted you after to ask if you did it on purpose because it was so you just slipped it in there. So, [00:27:58] Jeff: well, I knew from listening to [00:28:00] Dubai Friday, that Alex had was, you know, kind of talking about. Their own diagnosis. So it was like kind of assumed it would come up, um, or just thought it might come up. I guess that’s what I mean to say, but you know, it is, and with this, you shared a clip, Christina, um, of that dude and talking about how, as we talked about in the podcast last week, there were like different kinds of mental illness that are now okay. [00:28:25] To talk about. Like they don’t make anybody go, Hey, we should have just, uh, let’s just debrief on that interview with console. Uh, you know what I mean? Like, but, um, but it is true that the bipolar. thing is still like, even for me, Personally, like I had sort of stigmatized it. And when I stigmatize things, that’s not in a judgemental way, it just means that I haven’t heard enough people talking about it. [00:28:46] I mean, Brett, you’ve done an enormous service to people, your readers, your listeners, by talking about it, writing about it, writing about the challenges, um, joking about how you can tell where you’re manic phases, where by looking at your GitHub [00:29:00] repo and your, when you’re pushing stuff. Um, but for me, it was like, for me, it remains a thing where just kinda like, I don’t mind talking about it, but it’s so fresh that I want to still leave room for me to sort of understand it and, and take form itself in front of me, you know? [00:29:19] But it’s definitely one of those cases where. You know, I’ve had one other, two other situations like this, where something happens and it causes, and it causes me to just look back over my whole life and kind of reevaluate certain things that I had that I had called true about me. And they were true about me, but they were also true about me because of something going on in my brain chemistry. [00:29:43] And so I almost wanted to do like a version of the alcoholics anonymous thing and like start calling people and be like, remember when I called you and pitched that like massive project that I then never followed up on here’s the deal. Yeah, exactly. There are like little, there are actually four or five people that I would like to [00:30:00] call or message and just be like, I just want to explain something because I feel really bad that I kind of disappeared on that after bringing it up. [00:30:06] And I kind of understand why now. [00:30:08] Brett: When Elle got diagnosed as autistic, uh, at like, after hearing about some of her like previous relationships and stuff, I kind of wanted her to like, do like a, Hey, so you remember how this relationship ended because of this or that. And it turns out, turns out I’m autistic. But so the reason that I always, I will always push to have the mental health corner in this show is because it has become, it has been told to me so many times that people benefits so greatly from hearing other people talk about mental illness. [00:30:45] Uh, whether it’s a particular mental illness they have, which is where it’s most helpful, or just about mental illness in general, and just talking about it and being able to, uh, to lay out like here’s, what’s going on for me. [00:31:00] And here’s how it affects my wife like that. That is what allows other people to have the conversation. [00:31:06] And it never dawned on me. Cause I’m just, I’m just fucking honest. Like I’ll, [00:31:10] Christina: Yeah. [00:31:11] Brett: I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on when you ask and I’ve never thought twice about it, but I get so many, just little like emails and DMS that are just like, thank you so much for talking about this. It, it has made a big difference in my job, in my life, in my relationship. [00:31:30] And I love that and I want to keep doing that. [00:31:33] Jeff: The thing that eats my soul about it is that I know that I have had, I have worked in workplaces where if I were to talk about this, it would not impact my experience, but that. if any of my colleagues who were women or people of color talked about it, and I’m not, I mean, I’m, I can not be more serious and more confident in saying this that it would impact. [00:31:56] Profoundly in terms of how they were treated, how they were. And so [00:32:00] that’s another thing about, you know, we talk about sort of normalizing it, but like it’s only sort of normalizing it in a corner of, of, of mental health [00:32:08] Christina: Well, well, it is, and it’s not, I think, I think that you’re right, that it would be different 100%, but I also think that the more, um, awareness and the more examples we have out there, the less, it is likely to be able to treat people differently for those things. And I say that as, as, as a woman, I’m not a person of color, obviously, and I have a lot of other privileges, but I’ve been very open about the fact that I suffer from depression and anxiety for basically as long as I’ve been a quote unquote public figure. [00:32:37] Um, and, and so, um, and, and that doesn’t mean that there aren’t situations where I haven’t had people not be understanding and where I, I couldn’t, I can’t conceive, uh, places where people might judge me in certain ways. Cause I certainly can. Um, and, and that, that’s not to say my experience would be the same for everyone. [00:32:56] I still think that even though you’re right, that you being public [00:33:00] is, can be received very differently from other people. I still think that the more people who discuss it, period, like, you know, um, what, what, what’s the phrase like, like all, um, tides raise [00:33:12] Brett: tide, rising tide. [00:33:14] Christina: lift all ships. Yeah. [00:33:16] It’s [00:33:16] Brett: Something like that. [00:33:17] Jeff: yeah. Yeah. Right, [00:33:18] Christina: And I think there’s truth to that. Right. I think that, that doesn’t mean that it’ll happen the same way, but it does mean cause there are still differences in how we even perceive, um, like things like autism, uh, between genders, um, and, and people from different backgrounds. Um, and, and we don’t know on this podcast, we don’t talk about the socioeconomic and class differences in mental illness, uh, which are very vast, you know, and, and we’re all coming at this from like a very certain point of view, but I still think that having the discussion period is good for everyone. [00:33:54] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. What about you, [00:34:00] Brett? How are you doing. [00:34:01] Brett: Well, speaking of bipolar since switching to Vyvanse, what two to three months ago, I have not had a single manic episode. And historically when I go this long, without a manic episode, I get bored and, and I missed the mania and I missed the, the all night coding binges and the 20 pushes to a get hub repository. [00:34:27] And. Uh, this time I’m actually pretty grateful. And, um, I think I’m finally at a point where I can recognize that my overall productivity, um, my relationships and, uh, my general outlook on life are a lot more sustainable if I’m not swinging I’m manic and depressed. And, um, I’m actually really grateful to have found a med combination that has me stable for so long.[00:35:00] [00:35:00] I’m sure. Three months so long, but it does, it does feel like a long time based on the last few years of my life. And, uh, um, so I’m stable. I’m getting shit done. I’m, I’m surprisingly productive at work. Um, like kind of nailing my job right now, which it feels good. I’m great. But. The reason I wanted to go last and thank you for letting me go last is that today I got this huge boost. [00:35:33] Uh, I listened to do by Friday Alex Cox show with Merlin Mann, um, and their last episode, their challenge, uh, every week they do a challenge and theirs was to do something new with bunch, uh, which is an app I wrote and it took them 45 minutes into the episode to get to the challenge part. But, oh my God, they were a few civilly [00:36:00] flattering of me. [00:36:02] And just listening to, it was like such a, uh, an ego boost. Like I felt warm and fuzzy cause they were just like, he’s so smart. I love all these things he does. And they, and they knew what they were talking about. They were like listing my other projects, talking about things like the markdown service tools and kind of like, you know, lesser known stuff that I’ve done. [00:36:24] Jeff: Some of the early hits [00:36:25] Brett: Yeah, [00:36:28] Christina: They, they, they, they knew you [00:36:29] Brett: like, I like his, I like his early stuff. Yeah. Um, but no, it felt, it felt really good. It was, it was really sweet, [00:36:38] Christina: that’s awesome. And Alex was such a great guest. I was so glad that they were able to join [00:36:42] Brett: so. Okay. And, um, I don’t mean to out Alex or anything, but I told them that I could see them becoming a regular guest and they told me in private, but I’m going to share it. They told me that it was the [00:37:00] most fun they’ve had guesting on a podcast in a long time and that they would be happy to happy to come back. [00:37:09] Jeff: hospitality hosts. We’re such good hosts, Right, [00:37:11] Brett: Yeah. right. [00:37:12] Jeff: now? That was a lovely, lovely conversation. [00:37:14] Brett: I’m just going to slay it. We’re going to have Alex back Alex back again. And [00:37:19] Jeff: to be what happened with me? And eventually we’ll have like 15 hosts in this like video thing. Be like, [00:37:25] Brett: How [00:37:25] Jeff: if I could just, if I could, if I could just. [00:37:27] Christina: We have three hosts. [00:37:29] Brett: Is three, is three a good number or should we, should we eventually expand and have five hosts? [00:37:36] Christina: think, I think three is a good number, but I liked the idea of having like frequent guests. [00:37:41] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, [00:37:41] You got, you all do three really well over there at rocket [00:37:45] Christina: Thank you. Thank you. Well, we started with three, which I think, um, uh, makes it easier, but I also feel like you’ve like come into our, our, our triad, our throttle, if it w if you will. Yeah. [00:37:55] Jeff: Oh man. [00:37:56] Brett: Jeff, just slate in here. He [00:37:58] Jeff: I love it. I love it. I always, [00:38:00] you know, always wanted to be on a podcast, but didn’t want to start one, [00:38:03] Christina: see, this is the perfect thing. This is the perfect thing. You, you didn’t have to do any, any of that stuff. We were just like, just please join, join, join our throttle. Um, [00:38:10] Jeff: right. Throw up. Well, [00:38:11] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:38:11] So you guys know, we love the break in protection that simply safe home security systems give you, but it’s not always outside forces that you need. Simply say it’s protection from this is Terry story, a simply safe customer. Terry was away for the weekend for her. Daughter’s. The morning of the big day should get a call from simply safe, twenty four seven professional monitoring center. [00:38:35] And they let her know that her system had detected water in her basement. In moments like this time is critical because even an inch of flooding can cause more than $25,000 in damages. [00:38:47] Thankfully simply safe had detected the water just moments after the leaking had started. And after talking to simply safe, Terry just called her neighbor who quickly turned off the water in her home before the flooding [00:39:00] got bad, protecting against floods is just one of the reasons more than 4 million people trust their home protection to simply safe with comprehensive simply safe system and 24 7 professional monitoring. [00:39:13] You can have someone always looking out for you just like. Plans costs under a dollar a day with no long-term contracts or hidden fees ever. You can customize the perfect system for your home and just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitors. [00:39:36] Good as simply safe.com/overtired. That’s S I M P L I S a F E simply safe.com/overtired. [00:39:48] House Purse Update [00:39:48] Brett: So I have a, I have a question. Hey Jeff, do you have any updates on the house? [00:39:55] Jeff: oh, so funny. Thank you for asking. That’s just amazing. [00:40:00] You asked. Um, so the other day we had a bad storm here. I’m sure you had it to Brett, Brett, south of Minneapolis. And sometimes you get the butt end of the storm, the worst, usually the worst end of the storm. Right. And yeah, we got this storm and for the first time, I mean, we moved back here from New York, like 2007. [00:40:21] And for the first time I can remember there were tornado sirens and, and the power went out and, and guess what I had in The house purse. [00:40:30] had a headline. Because I’m insane. And then next to the house, I had an emergency radio where I could just turn on with no internet or anything. Just turn on, you know, national public radio or Minnesota public radio here. [00:40:45] This is actually after the tearing, I gave Minnesota public radio. Let me just say that Tom cran, the afternoon host and Paul Huttner, the weather, the weather folk, uh, just so [00:41:00] fantastic and emergency. And so I was able to really just listen to them, put them on a radio and listen, had a headlamp for going around the house, looking for things. [00:41:07] And I thought this house purse is really maturing. I want to get to the point where we have a house purse getaway, but I’m not ready yet. I’m not ready yet. I’m willing to use my, kind of the sponsor money [00:41:20] Brett: Like, are you talking, are you talking about a fully stocked house [00:41:23] Jeff: I’m talking about a partially stocked house. [00:41:26] Brett: Because everyone’s going to, everyone’s going to have like a personal requirement [00:41:30] Jeff: No most people are not going to put a fucking headlamp in an emergency radio in theirs. And that is the bipolar speaking. [00:41:37] Brett: Dude. I, I have, I have battery operated, headlamps lanterns and flashlights all over the house. Um, I have been through enough power outages, which is not to say a lot of power outages, but enough to convince me that having handy light sources all over the place is worthwhile [00:41:58] Jeff: Oh man. And you, you know, [00:42:00] it is actually easy to forget that because I have all these flashlights and stuff, but like, damn if I could find them all, but I’d forgotten that I buried a headlamp in my house purse. [00:42:08] Brett: right over here in the window to my office. There [00:42:11] Jeff: a rifle. [00:42:12] Brett: there is a solar powered flashlight charging constantly in the window. Uh, yeah. Um, I am ready for the power to go out and I have these led lanterns that like. Pull up on them and they cast light in every direction and then they have like hangers and a magnets. [00:42:33] You can stick them to things. [00:42:35] Jeff: That’s awesome. [00:42:36] Brett: They’re awesome. Yeah. [00:42:37] Jeff: Yeah. I have, I have like a prepper prepper sort of inclinations, but I try to put them to good use. So like for instance, after George Floyd was murdered, um, there were, of course all these protests here and around the world. Uh, And here, one of the markers of that time was that there were rumors going around that even our governor was [00:43:00] propagating that white nationalists who were in town and they were in town. [00:43:03] Uh, we’re putting, um, incendiary devices in our alleys in south Minneapolis. And people were all of a sudden finding them when in reality, everything, someone found was not that, but like our governor was on TV, addressing the city of Minneapolis, saying, we want you to pull in your garbage cans and water down your fences. Right. Like, and when I got to the point where I realized we had not only organized the neighborhood watch, like most neighborhoods in south Minneapolis had, but we had, um, been hosing down our fences. I was like, I don’t think it’s ridiculous anymore to get a generator and to get an emergency radio cause this like everything else about that year 2020 is bananas. [00:43:41] Um, not to take in any way away from George Floyd’s murder. It was, it was just one of those things where it like made me think more like a prepper and one of the directions I went in. So once Dante right was killed, Um, [00:43:54] and we knew, and the protest started Right. [00:43:56] away and it was gonna be every night. And the police were being really, really harsh with tear [00:44:00] gas. [00:44:00] Um, I, I knew like, oh, I know how to go to hardware stores and buy good, like respirators. Cause I don’t know, I’ve never talked about this on the show, but I have a workshop and I make stuff and I weld and like it’s a whole like secret life I have. Um, and so I decided to drive around the day. After Dante Ray was killed to all the hardware stores and get the good respirators that I could then give to, um, someone who would bring them to the protest. [00:44:24] So I took donations and then sure enough, someone who, a friend of mine who was working as like a, a medic at the protest came by, I laid it all out. Like it was a bond movie, all these different respirators and everything else. She gathered them all up and brought them down to the protest. And I was like, this is prepping. [00:44:41] I can get behind. [00:44:42] Brett: Yeah. [00:44:42] Jeff: It also helps me feel useful. Cause I’m not, I don’t go to protest so much anymore. Um, and, and those kinds, and it’s, it’s due to some just really bad experiences I’ve had around, um, riot police and whatever else. So it’s just better for me to stay away. [00:45:00] Um, but it’s wonderful to be able to help people. [00:45:03] Brett: Kristina. Have we ever talked about Jeff cyber duck on this show? [00:45:07] Christina: No, I don’t think we have, but I. [00:45:09] Brett: a topic [00:45:10] for [00:45:11] Christina: going to say that I was going to say that definitely sounds like a future topic. Cause I wanna, I want to hear [00:45:15] Jeff: it is a future topic. Cause I have to figure out if I’m in a resurrected or not. [00:45:18] Brett: It’s so cool. [00:45:19] Christina: Yeah, I’ve been, um, I do too. I’ve been, so this, um, a company that we’ve talked about before framework, uh, computer who makes like very repairable computers, they’re now selling just the motherboard of their product. But the way that it works is that it basically like people, you can use it, it’s designed to work without a screen and stuff. [00:45:41] And a lot of people are building cyber decks and other custom DIY projects with it. And, and so, um, that I would love to hear about your cyber duck [00:45:51] Jeff: Wait, do. you have the framework [00:45:53] Christina: I do. [00:45:54] Christina Tech Talk [00:45:54] Jeff: Oh, damn it. Can we do a, can we do. a Christina tech talk for a minute because I want to hear about the framework and I [00:46:00] want to hear about the play date. [00:46:01] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Do do, are you good with that? [00:46:04] Brett: am. We need to save time for a short grab attitude and we’re at 45. So I would say you guys got 10 minutes. Let’s do a Christina tech dot. [00:46:14] Jeff: All right. [00:46:15] Christina: All right. So, uh, what do you want to know? [00:46:18] Jeff: I want you to say to the framework laptop is this sort of modular, right? It’s a modular laptop, um, that, uh, you can buy in. What, like, tell me about yours. [00:46:28] Christina: Yeah. So it’s a modular laptop. Um, you can basically get it either kind of pre-configured and assembled, or you can get it more, all the cars. So I got the DIY version, which included like an 11 gin, um, uh, uh, Intel processor. And then I added, um, uh, Ram and, um, an SSD. I got it from them, but then I put everything together. [00:46:49] The, the wifi card I wanted. And, um, and then you can choose, they have the, it has Thunderbolt for, and so what it does is it uses those, uh, Thunderbolt for, [00:47:00] uh, slots and a really creative way where it creates these USBC modules that could be for like a USB port or, um, like a, a small, um, kind of like a USB, um, uh, three.one SSD or an HTMI or display port or USB C just kind of like whatever you want. [00:47:20] Um, but the really great thing with it is that it is incredibly repairable. Like it comes with a screwdriver, you can open it up. You’re just, it’s designed, you know, like if you get the, the DIY model it’s designed where you’re going to put the components, whether you buy them from them or not, you’re going to put it together. [00:47:36] Um, I think at this point they do pre-assemble the wifi card. Um, if you buy the wifi card from them, because that is a little bit of a bitch to get installed with the way that the antennas are positioned. I ran into that issue. So there’s a number of other people and they were like, okay, we will pre-install these. [00:47:55] Um, but everything else, um, you know, like it’s one of these things where it’s just [00:48:00] five screws on the back, comes with a screen, or like I said, the keyboard, um, pops out and then you have access to the entire main board stuff. And so every part of it is repairable. Like, you can replace the screen if that breaks, you’re gonna place the battery. [00:48:16] You know, they sell the parts, which is really nice. And then the idea too, is that, um, over time they would be able to sell like you a new main board that could go in the same chassis, um, that you’ve had beforehand. So it wouldn’t be like, okay, I have to get rid of every other aspect of my laptop if I just wanted to upgrade the processor for instance. [00:48:35] So I was, when I first heard about this company, um, I was really intrigued and I really liked the idea, but I was like, I’ve seen this movie before. It almost never works out. In [00:48:47] Jeff: Oh like the novena, the novena bunny Hawaiians thing, right? [00:48:52] Christina: Yeah. And, and, you know, Google tried to do kind of a modular phone thing. Like it just, it’s never worked out this. [00:48:58] I have to give them a mince [00:49:00] credit for a gen one. It completely delivered on everything they promised and they continue to kind of be innovative. And so. I love mine. Like I bought a $2,000 Dell, um, windows, laptop, cause I needed at the time I needed a windows laptop at work and I returned it for the framework, which was about the same amount of money. [00:49:19] And I, I I’ve been, I’ve had it since, uh, I guess like September and I’m so happy with it. And, and I, I also really love their mission. Like they put the, um, the whole like kind of schematics and stuff up on GitHub and they make the full like, like at least like the set that you would, um, like the design stuff and the things that you could print out for PCB on GitHub, if you want to get the actual repair schematics, I think there are some weird things with that, about it being fully available, but they’ll give it to any repair shop, um, for, for people to do stuff. [00:49:49] And they have a pretty active community of tinkers and whatnot. They, they are actively working on their Linux support and stuff like it’s it’s good shit. So I’m, I [00:50:00] love it. And I’m a very, very improv. [00:50:02] Jeff: I appreciate the spirit of it so much too. Especially having recently, we talked about, uh, I bought my Mac book and just like kind of laughing at myself slash crying at the fact that part of my attraction to this computer was that they had added a couple of ports back. Right. [00:50:19] Christina: Well, that was the thing, right. Is as I got, I got the, I got my 14 inch in one, like not long after I got the framework and there’s similar in size, but the approach is so different, but it’s so funny. Cause like on my framework I have like a one terabyte, like three.one SSD. And one of the things I have two USB C ports, one USBA. [00:50:37] But I also have like in my bag I have like a, an HTMI connector. Um, [00:50:42] Jeff: just swap it out. [00:50:43] Christina: You can just swap it out and, and, and so it’s so nice to be able to do that. I mean, could you do dongles? Sure. But like this way, if I know that I’m going to be going someplace where I need to connect something to an HTMI. [00:50:54] I can just use that without having to do anything else. Um, plus the S the one, my one complaint, [00:51:00] like from a spec perspective, I wish the screen were slightly higher resolution. It’s a, it’s a great three by two screen. And I wish it were 3000 by 2000, but like, they don’t make many of those screens anymore anyway. [00:51:11] And it’s still, um, you know, especially with the way that windows does their scaling. Very, very usable. So I I’m a big fan. [00:51:20] Jeff: Awesome. Okay. So I want to just stay on that. Brett, do you have any questions? [00:51:23] Brett: I, well, I have, I have a couple hardware things I want to talk about too. Um, but I can save them. Cause I know you have questions about the. [00:51:34] Jeff: And we can move the. play date the next week. If you have stuff [00:51:36] Brett: Well, let me, I can make this quick, first of all. So I have, I have the thunder BL uh, hub from OWC Thunderbolt for hub. That gives you three additional Thunderbolt ports, but it runs warm. And my kitten loves to curl up on it, which unplugs my other, my like Thunderbolt four devices. I found out [00:52:00] last week that, and I’m going to hold this up and then describe it. [00:52:03] But OWC sells these things called cling ons that they’re a compression fitting for a Thunderbolt for a cable, with a 3m adhesive on the other side. So you can just stick it to the port [00:52:19] Christina: Oh. [00:52:20] Brett: keeps it from pulling out and with OWC devices, there’s a hole above every Thunderbolt. Uh, Thunderbolt for a port that you can screw this into for a completely permanent fixture. [00:52:36] And it, like, it takes some work to get the Thunderball for cable into these things. So, you know, it’s not going to pull out. It is, it’s a beautiful solution. [00:52:46] Jeff: So you have the thumber Thunderbolt for [00:52:48] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Which is one of my other hardware points that I definitely will save for next week or another week is a month before the predicted ship date. [00:52:59] I received [00:53:00] my studio, my Mac studio last week [00:53:03] Christina: nice. [00:53:04] Brett: and holy shit, let me to summarize a test suite that previously took two minutes to run. Now takes about 30 seconds. Um, it’s that much faster than my M one, many, uh, [00:53:20] Jeff: Wow. [00:53:21] Brett: On the OWC topic I got, uh, I’m going to, it’ll be in the show notes. I forget the name of the enclosure, but it’s just an enclosure for SSD cards. [00:53:32] And I put two, two terabyte, N M E S S D cards into it, and then set it up as a raid one, four terabyte drive. And the thing gets 1300 megabyte, right? Read and write [00:53:50] Christina: She’s as crazy. [00:53:51] Brett: It is the fastest SSE tribe I have ever had. And honestly it costs less than buying [00:54:00] like external self-enclosed SSDs, uh, of the same size. [00:54:06] And it is a very cost effective way to add some very fast storage to your machine. Four terabytes at 1300 megabyte writes speeds. It’s insane. Anyway. [00:54:19] Christina: That’s ridiculous. [00:54:20] Brett: Anyway, I’m done. Now we’ll talk about the studio another [00:54:23] Christina: Yeah, we can talk about that next week. And I mean, um, if, uh, we won’t want to talk about the, the, we can talk about the play date more in depth in another week, too, but just to give you kind of, I got mine because I haven’t had a ton of time to spend with it, but I got it on Friday and I love it. [00:54:37] Brett: is a play date? I’m out of loop on this [00:54:39] Christina: Okay. So the play date is, um, a handheld little mini console, retro console type of thing, that panic [00:54:46] Brett: oh, I’ll get, I did it with the little crank [00:54:48] Christina: Yeah, the panic. So it was panic and teenage engineering. And I have the, they announced this in 2019, and I saw it at X and used it at XO XO in 2019. And because of COVID [00:55:00] and delays, then they had like a battery problem. [00:55:01] Like it’s been a process getting it out. Um, the downside with it, it’s like $180. It’s for us, it’s for people like me and Jeff. And to a lesser extent, you Brett, like you would love some of the aspects of it, but I don’t think you’re enough of a game person to really be into it. But for people like, people are like, oh, this, this cost, you know, way too much and whatnot. [00:55:23] I’m like, it’s not for you. It’s for people who have disposable income and like indie kind of personal devices and like the concept of being able to have like a very cute little. Game machine that you can build your own games for. That has, it has a really great, uh, kind of, uh, ink similar to that kind of scream. [00:55:41] So it’s gets really good battery life. And the crank is not just a gimmick. Like it’s actually a really interesting, um, uh, like UI thing for games. Yeah. Controller for the games. And, um, uh, you can write games in Lua and, um, I think they have like a, a C or C plus plus, um, [00:56:00] a way you can write games too, but, but they have like a, a, a game engine. [00:56:03] And, um, I got mine finally last week and it’s, it’s adorable and it’s so fun. And I so proud of the panic team. We should actually see if we could get maybe somebody from panic on to talk about it. [00:56:17] Jeff: Yeah, [00:56:18] that would be amazing. I just want to play with one first panic. [00:56:22] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. This [00:56:23] Brett: some review [00:56:24] Jeff: I can’t, if I buy one now I don’t get it until next year. [00:56:27] Christina: I was going to say, this is the problem is that it’s, it’s a small kind of, um, device. Um, although I think I’m going to be at max socks. If you’re at max stock chef, I will bring wine. [00:56:36] Brett: Jeff, you should come to max sock. I want, I want overtired. Max stock is July 23rd, I think 24th. Oh fuck you, [00:56:47] Jeff: Fuck you. [00:56:49] Christina: Well, all right. We will find a time at some point to meet up. We will have like an overtired comp or something. Coffee comp. There we go. Coffee comp. Um, [00:56:57] Brett: Do, do you think you’re coming to max sock?[00:57:00] [00:57:00] Christina: I think I am. Yeah, [00:57:01] Brett: Oh my God. That’s awesome. Aaron. [00:57:03] Jeff: now I’m sad. [00:57:04] Brett: Aaron from, from previous episodes of overtired, uh, may also be presenting at max [00:57:11] Christina: that would be [00:57:11] Brett: And yeah, I’m super psyched this year. I’m not presenting, I wanted a year off and that’s why I, I got like other people to pitch talks. [00:57:23] Uh, I was like, I’m gonna, I’m going to give up my spot. Here are some other people I think would be really great presenters. And that included you, Christina. I don’t know if you plan to present or [00:57:34] Christina: No, I still need, I still need to like, get back with them, but I I’m, I definitely am planning on going. So, um, so, and maybe I’ll talk to you, but yeah, I, um, that, that would be really fun, but we can, we will find a way Jeff, for, for us to get you your hands on one. [00:57:48] Brett: maybe we can get a Mac stock discount for over-tired listeners. I will talk to Mike and [00:57:54] Christina: Yeah. Talk to them. That would be really cool. [00:57:58] Jeff: play date. I was going over it with my, [00:58:00] both of my teenage sons are vintage console collectors. And in fact, my eldest is home sick from school, with COVID symptoms, and he’s downstairs working on a turbo 3 86 PC right now, [00:58:12] Christina: Oh my God. Your, your [00:58:14] Jeff: naturally naturally with a doom CD-ROM in hand. Um, [00:58:18] Christina: are honestly, you’re the coolest dad and your kids are so cool. There’s also, I have to say I haven’t played with it yet. Um, uh, no pun intended, but on, on GitHub, somebody has put like a GameBoy emulator for the [00:58:28] Jeff: I saw that. [00:58:29] Christina: And, and so I have like plans, like I’m actually, at this point, we’ll talk more about the play date and future, uh, shows. [00:58:35] I wanna hear about the back studio, but I have plans of actually trying to see if I can like, make work content around this [00:58:41] Jeff: Yeah. [00:58:42] Christina: because I’m like, there’s some really cool projects and this is, um, it’s just, it’s, it’s neat. It’s, it’s, it’s fun. It’s just like, and it’s, it’s panic who I have had a love affair with for as long as I can remember. [00:58:55] And, and, um, I’m really proud of them for getting it out the door and stuff. [00:58:59] Jeff: That’s [00:59:00] awesome. Love it. Thanks for talking about it. [00:59:02] Christina: No, prob. [00:59:04] GrAPPtitude [00:59:04] Jeff: Well, gratitude, the unanimous gratitude. [00:59:06] Brett: Yes. So, so we were comparing notes before the show about what we were all picking for gratitude. And Christina said she was excited about hers, and I said, it’s not bike. Is it? Um, and she said, yes. And then Jeff was like, oh my God, no, that was mine. So we have a three way gratitude this week. Um, uh, Jesse Gross, Jean creator of task paper. [00:59:35] Just put out a brand new app called bike, and it is an outliner that works with an open format. It’s HTML based. It can import and export OPM L and plain text. And it gives you keyboard shortcuts for editing and navigating around your outline. It even you like, you can hit escape and go into outline, edit mode, [01:00:00] which lets you use shortcuts for expanding and closing and focusing on nodes in your outline. [01:00:08] And it is just a bare bones. Super elegant. Outliner, and I’m super impressed with it. It’s great text editing features. It has one of my favorite shortcuts that some markdown editors have where you can hold down command and option and hit up the up arrow key and, and progressively expand your selection to word and then sentence, and then paragraph and then like block and then entire document. [01:00:40] And that is just that kind of attention to detail is what makes me love, uh, stuff that Jesse Gross gene makes. He is a plain text hero. And this is an awesome app. So I will let you guys say what you enjoy about it. [01:00:57] Jeff: Go ahead, Christina. [01:00:58] Christina: Yeah. So I just found out about this this [01:01:00] morning and, uh, as we’re recording this, so the day that it was released and I immediately looked at the video and I bought it before I even tried it out, um, just based on like the video, I was like, I was like, I’m in. And just a little bit of time I’ve spent with it. [01:01:12] I am not a huge outliner. Um, but I liked the ideas of outlining. Um, and the way that this approach is really speaks to me a lot more than something like Omni outliner, which I’ve just, even though I really liked the Omni group’s products, I just, I’ve never been able to really wrap my mind around that. [01:01:28] What I also appreciate about it is that it has its own file format, but it also supports open format. So you can export an OML, which means if you’re using like any kind of like the Dave Weiner or some of the other like older school, like outliners, you can do that [01:01:41] Brett: Or, or any, all the mind mapping apps and like mark two and multi-modal markdown composer. Oh, PML is a great transport format. [01:01:50] Christina: Yeah. And I really appreciate that. Um, and it’s just, it’s fast. Like, that’s the biggest thing that, that guy was, I was on the call this, um, earlier, uh, before we were recording [01:02:00] and I was using it for, um, my notes more than like a text editor, because a lot of times an outliner is perfect for that, because it’s really easy to have different section blocks and different things. [01:02:08] Do you want to cover, at least for me? And I was just like, oh, this is so quick and editing. This is really easy. So I’m, I’m so far like big, huge fan. And in like you, um, H his past apps have been really, really good. I think I got an email cause I bought like right room or something or tasky for many years ago. [01:02:27] I don’t know. But I saw the email and it was one of those things I, when I saw it was like from hog bay software, I was like, huh, okay. I’ll actually click on this because [01:02:36] Jeff: once every seven years. So let’s do it. [01:02:40] Brett: I will interject when I was talking about keyboard shortcuts, it also implements text mates, command return, and command shift return from the middle of a line, you can hit command return to insert a new line or command shift return to insert, uh, a node above the current [01:03:00] node, which is perfect. Cause that’s, that’s like instinctive for me anyways, [01:03:04] Christina: yes. Oh my God. That’s a really great. [01:03:07] Jeff: What Jesse makes that I love so much. I was a user of Right. [01:03:11] room in the day. I was a big user of folding texts, which is sort of the daddy of this app, um, bike. And I use task paper daily. What, what Jessie does for me is just make apps that like, there is zero obstacle between me needing to write something down and me writing it down in one of his apps. [01:03:34] And when folding texts was a thing, I mean, you could still use it, but like when it was the thing, I used it for journalism. Um, it just, cause it was just something I could, like you said, taking notes, Christina, you could just move through it so quickly and you could just feel so kind of agile, not to confuse that with the programming bro thing, but like you could, you could be so agile moving through a nimble, moving through any of those apps. [01:03:57] He just makes these apps that you can just go [01:04:00] like boom, and your brain can just release. And I’m So grateful for that. They’re fun playgrounds and they have great communities. Usually. I mean, I still remember I was among the mourners who he had to kind of console by saying, look, there will be a follow-up to folding text, but it’s going to take some time and it took years and I don’t mind, I’ve got no problem with that. [01:04:22] And here it is, and it looks beautiful. So it’s a fun day. [01:04:25] Brett: his roadmap for bike does include a plugin architecture. Uh, which was part of what made folding texts beautiful was it sucks sensibility. Um, and, and apparently that is planned for bike to have some sort of, probably not to the extent that folding texts was extensible. Um, but to have a plugin architecture, so you can extend, uh, uh, bikes capabilities, but honestly, like for, for creating an outline, the only outliner I’ve [01:05:00] ever truly appreciated before this was tree. [01:05:03] I don’t know if you guys ever saw that, but it was like, it was an outliner, but it was horizontal and it felt like you were working in a mind. Uh, and my brain just attached very easily to a horizontal outline. Um, this outliner is I love it because it’s simple. Like I’m, I’m, the outliner is an amazing application, but it is it’s complex. [01:05:31] And you have to put more thought into an outline than I want to. And this is super simple and it can in one click export to a format that you can paste right into say my node, or I thought, and, and expand on something as a mind map, which is not for everybody, but it’s the way my brain works. And to be able to spit ideas out very quickly [01:06:00] in a very simplistic, very keyboard friendly editor, and then port it as either plain text or as an OPL file straight into. [01:06:11] Any mind map application is it’s it’s what did the kids say? It’s tits [01:06:17] Christina: It’s lit [01:06:18] Jeff: That’s what [01:06:19] Brett: lit. It’s fire. It’s fire emoji. [01:06:22] Jeff: slaps. [01:06:23] Christina: it slaps. There you go. At slaps. [01:06:25] Jeff: me, trust the [01:06:27] Christina: I was going to say, I was going to say, I’m going to actually trust you on this. No, I was gonna say I was like, actually like it slapped. So I was going to say again, I’m going to, I’m gonna go, go with Jeff on this. [01:06:35] Brett: I think, I think it’s it’s. It’s rad. It’s boss. It’s boss. Okay. I’m 20 years behind. [01:06:42] Jeff: the first time one of my kids said it’s slept on me. I went, Okay. [01:06:46] So, intuitively I think I know what that means, but just picturing a slap on the ass and I don’t know what to tell you. I think that’s my generation. [01:06:53] Christina: and it, it it’s, it’s like when I, um, tweeted something about how a certain logo, um, fucked and, uh, [01:07:00] uh, I had, um, I had someone very high up in the corporate structure, reached out to me and wanted to just confirm that that Fox was a good thing. And I was like, yes, I, yes. Fox is a good thing. [01:07:11] Jeff: That’s cool, man. [01:07:13] Christina: I promise you. [01:07:13] It’s good. [01:07:15] Brett: All right. Well, I feel like that that’s a good, that’s a good wrap up to a show. [01:07:21] Christina: Yeah. [01:07:22] Brett: It was a good show. We didn’t, we didn’t get to almost two thirds of what we had on the list. [01:07:28] Jeff: nice. When that grows. [01:07:29] Brett: it really, it was a very organic show. like we gardened this show and it just grew. [01:07:35] Jeff: And it’s coming to a slow, slow, and isn’t it. We’re crawling to [01:07:40] Brett: Well, I like to, I like to do this. I like to do this little debrief before we sign off. [01:07:45] Jeff: Um, [01:07:46] Brett: Just, uh, just all agree on whether it was a good or a bad show. And I, I say it was a pretty good show. [01:07:53] Jeff: good. That’s good. A lot of fun [01:07:56] Brett: All right. You guys get some sleep? [01:07:58] Jeff: sleep, [01:07:58] Christina: get some sleep. [01:08:00] [01:08:00] Jeff: Bye.