Overtired

The stunning conclusion of the Jeff Severns Guntzel saga. Less stunning than nerdy, really, from dotfiles to keyboard shortcuts. But also Real World Homecoming. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. Show Links Jeff Severns Guntzel on Systematic The Real World The Real World Homecoming TikTok Water Asshole DotBot Patrick McDonald on dotfiles Mackup Homebrew Homebrew Bundle fuzzy_cd for OMF Fish shell 1Password for SSH 1Password Electron Decision KeyBindings Cheat Sheet for Dash Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 274 [00:00:00] Christina: You are listening to overtired. I am here today with a I’m Christina Warren, by the way. Uh, and, uh, I’m here. Hey, Hey, Brett. Um, so this is, uh, is our second, uh, episode that we’re doing with, uh, Jeff Severns and we’re so excited. We had such a great time talking with him, um, for both the last episode and, and, and our episode last week that we had to continue this conversation. [00:00:29] So Jeff, Brett, how are you both [00:00:32] Jeff: good? [00:00:33] Brett: I am good. Jeff. So your, your last name is hyphenated, right? [00:00:38] Jeff: Yeah, without a hyphen. I [00:00:39] Brett: Without it’s like two, [00:00:41] Christina: see, and I, and I miss the Jeff Severns console. I’m sorry. I only saw the first half of that. I’m. [00:00:45] Brett: totally fine. I’ve just always wondered. Which one of those is your birth name? [00:00:50] Jeff: Uh, Gunzel and, and the weird thing is like, I often get emails addressed to Steven that are definitely, to me, they’re from people that I’ve like just met or something. And I don’t know [00:01:00] if they see the Severns and they decide I’m Steven. That’s totally what it is. Is it? Yeah, it’s so weird. [00:01:05] Brett: I called you Stephen for years. Let’s talk about Jeff for a second. Jeff, who are you? [00:01:11] Jeff: Um, I, I, I, uh, let’s start with the most immediate, um, sitting in my home office in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Um, I was a reporter for about 25 years or so, um, and then switched to something. I call investigative research. So I focus right now on the juvenile justice system in, uh, one particular county in the U S and am working to develop ways to see inside the system so that you can see. [00:01:43] No, what questions to ask the premise being that there’s so much sort of opaqueness in the, in the juvenile justice system. Of course, that’s really important in many ways and for many reasons, but that when you start doing a work of an investigative nature, the first thing you realize [00:02:00] very, very quickly is that that opaqueness is also protecting people who are doing harm to kids in the system. [00:02:08] And, and unlike, you know, if you’re covering adult prison or something, that’s still can be hard or people or adults in the criminal justice system, it could still be difficult, but like there’s a lot, there are a lot more inroads. There are a lot more windows to peer through to kind of understand, you know, what’s going on here. [00:02:23] What might be patterns of harm here and with the juvenile justice system, it’s just so difficult. And so I, I work with some programmers and I, I work with some qualitative data people and, and our work is, is sort of. Part of our work is sort of, um, focused on creating tools for seeing into the system that can be used, um, more broadly than just in one county [00:02:45] Brett: If you want a, if you want a more in-depth look at what Jeff does. Uh, he was on one of the last episodes of systematic before. Possibly permanent [00:03:00] hiatus, maybe. I don’t know. But, uh, back in June of 2021, he was on episode 2 60, 1 of systematic. And we talked about, uh, his investigative research and his 20 years of journalism and definitely worth checking out. [00:03:16] Jeff: and Brett Brett, does that work with me now a little bit, which is really amazing. [00:03:20] Brett: I help with automation, which is, you know, my way, it’s my way. Like we’ve often talked about Ella and I talk about how, uh, when, when push comes to shove, we, we have very specific roles we can play in, in a crisis. And like, I’m not great at any kind of like, I don’t show up for a protest in the street, but I will 100% be the guy that like goes in buys, um, materials, uh, gallons of milk and like hands them out. [00:03:55] Like that’s, I’m, I’m a, I’m a behind the scenes guy. And if I can help with [00:04:00] automation in an important project, like what Jeff is doing, I’m happy. [00:04:04] Jeff: Well, and now it’s, it’s more than just automation. Like certainly that’s what you do. And that’s, you know, what you do really incredibly, but it’s, it’s about, um, just as we’re creating a model for being able to look into the system, we’re also trying to create essentially a tool set so that doesn’t require a staff of five to try to do something and especially so that when you’re doing work, that is really trauma facing. [00:04:27] Right. And a lot of people that do trauma facing work. Uh, kind of out of their own trauma, right. That can actually get in the way of your productivity. And so what Brett helps so much with is just making sure, Hey, there’s some important steps you have to take every time you interview somebody with every kind of data you bring in, whatever. [00:04:45] And, and this tool is going to make sure that you do it right without having to really think about it too hard, because we can all get so paralyzed by like, oh crap, I have to take these six tedious steps. So it is automation and it is automation for the reason that people do automation. But, [00:05:00] but I also, I think it’s bigger than that in breaths really like created, um, some spaciousness for me doing the work with some of the way that he, um, builds tools. [00:05:10] So, and that was true. That was, and that was true before we should finish that shit. And that was true before, uh, we worked together. That was it’s using your stuff forever. So anyway, [00:05:18] Brett: Um, all right. So last episode, we’re going to have a mental health corner. After I promise these two, we could talk about the real-world, which is not going to involve me much at all. Um, but you too, I’ll let you. [00:05:33] do your own lead-in and everything. Let’s get back to pop culture for a sec. [00:05:39] Christina: Yes. Okay. So I kind of wanted to close out like our, we talked all about the nineties last episode, but what we didn’t get into when we both wanted to, as Jeff put this on our list and I was very excited because I know that Brett doesn’t care, but I do. And I feel like I’m the only one who does, um, it’s in my mind, one of the most important television shows of the nineties was the real [00:06:00] world. [00:06:00] And, uh, for. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for so many horses. And, uh, and, and, uh, I, uh, they brought it back last year. They now had two seasons and a third one’s coming aware. Uh, basically last year it took place like during the pandemic. Um, they rented for a couple of weeks, the original loft that the first season of the real world in New York state and back when no one knew what it was going to be. [00:06:28] And they got the, all of the original cast members back together, except for Eric niece who was stuck in a hotel because he had COVID. Um, and, uh, It was a very interesting reunion in a very interesting kind of documentary project of like bringing these people who changed television kind of back together, uh, you know, 30 years later. [00:06:47] Um, and, uh, and then they redid, uh, Los Angeles has a true stowaway, uh, season. [00:06:54] Jeff: I’m doing season two. [00:06:55] Christina: Aren’t I, when I do that, yeah, she was the LA. And then, uh, I think the next one’s going to [00:07:00] be, uh, from like, uh, one of the more popular areas. Like it was. A completely different show at that point. What was new Orleans? [00:07:06] So, anyway, let’s talk about this. Jeff, have, have you been watching them? Which one have you watched, or have you watched them [00:07:11] Jeff: both? I’m particularly interested in, um, the New York, uh, group. Um, and what happened was I watched the first, probably 15 minutes of the first episode and realized that I really wanted to go revisit the original, which for me, I watched in real time, I was absolutely fixated. [00:07:32] I, I, there, you know, I, it was that I was at an age, like, what was it like 92, I think. Right. Um, so I was going to graduate, well, I didn’t graduate, but I was supposed to graduate from high school in a year. And, um, and I was. Really wondering, constantly circling. What does it mean to be an adult out in the world? [00:07:51] What does it mean to be out there? What does it look like? How did people talk to each other? Like, I was a pretty, like, I had a group of friends, which was my band for most of my time in high school, but I [00:08:00] was really, I really kept to myself. I just, you know, one of those kids that didn’t feel like I related to anybody. [00:08:05] And so I just kept to myself and had this like really intense, like life in my mind. And, and I just felt like this whole minimum security prison thing called the high school. Like the second I get out, I’m just going to live a real life. And this for me was like the was like such an interesting window. [00:08:25] You know, as overly produced and sort of dishonest as, uh, as a reality TV show can be, we now know, right. It doesn’t matter because what I did see, just what I got was more, it was less about is this interaction true? And it was more about what that person is saying right now, or how they’re expressing that emotion and how these people are handing things to handling things like racial tension and sexual attention and everything. [00:08:47] Like, I didn’t have anybody modeling that for me. I mean, I just, I lived, I was an only child and live with my mom and like, so for me it was. It was huge and it just made me want to be an adult so goddamn bad. And [00:09:00] sometimes that made me want to be an adult so bad because I was like, ah, I wouldn’t have had that problem in there. [00:09:04] Christina: Totally, totally. Or you’re like, I want to hang out with Julia and [00:09:08] Jeff: Julie’s almost exactly a year older than me. And so, so she, this that really felt close, [00:09:14] Christina: you know? Right, right. Um, so, so for, for, for listeners who might not be aware, so the first season of the real world, and I actually think that in terms of homecoming, it is far and away, like the two seasons that it did have errors as far as it is definitely the better of the two that the second one, which makes sense, um, is much more like more of the traditional kind of reality thing we’ve known, which also makes sense. [00:09:35] But what was so interesting about the first season of the real world was that they didn’t, no one knew what they were getting into and no one knew what they were doing. So even though there are production elements to it, and it’s not a true verite documentary thing, it is much, much closer to that. Then what happened. [00:09:52] Even the next season, because at that point it had been on television and people understood what the reach could be and what the potential could be and started to [00:10:00] change how they acted. Whereas with the first season, no one knew that it was going to become this phenomenon and that MTV would re aired over and over and over and over and over again, you know, I was like seven and I watched it all the time and, and I would watch, I don’t know if I watched it in real time or if I started watching it that the second year, but I definitely saw the first season and definitely have seen every episode of probably the first, you know, five or six seasons probably actually going all the way through. [00:10:25] I don’t know. Seattle. I, I washed a lot too. I mean, and I, I watched the, the one subsequent to that, but like, there was an error in my life, especially when I was like in elementary and middle school where I would just spend my weekends just watching MTV and watching world marathons. So I’ve seen some of these episodes, like, it feels like hundreds of times it hasn’t been bad, but it feels like I’ve seen these episodes like so many times. [00:10:48] Oh, sorry. No, no, no. I was just going to say though, but what’s so interesting about that first season is that no one knew. And so I think that what you see with it, especially like from that your perspective of you being that perfect [00:11:00] age for the audience was you got to kind of see these possibilities and these different interactions and conversations that just weren’t happening on telephone. [00:11:09] Jeff: Yeah. Like not at all. And also like I am I correct that this is considered like what’s considered like the first reality TV show [00:11:16] Christina: is. Okay. So the first one would be, there was one in the seventies that was like a PBS thing, kind of like the family, but this is honestly like the birth of it as we know it. [00:11:25] Yeah. I thought [00:11:26] Jeff: because I had never seen anything like that. And all I did was watch TV. I mean, like I watched six to 10 hours a night after school every day. And like, I imagined that if, if I had to sell this to somebody, why would you go back and watch this right now? Right? Like. You would watch it because it’s the only opportunity you have to watch a reality TV show where no one, including the producers knew what a reality TV show. [00:11:50] Christina: Right, right, right. Because, because I think up until then, so, so the very first one, the one that most people point to, I think there’ve been some other things was there was a PBS series in 1973 [00:12:00] called an American family. And, um, and then there was like, um, like kind of a UK version that kind of came from that, but that’s PBS. [00:12:10] Right. And that’s definitely done as like more of a documentary style thing. Whereas the real world was. You know, they had like the music, because it was MTV. They had music rights to be able to use all the, like the best music of that era, like in the, in the quick cuts. And, and you had, you know, the, the, you know, confessional footage and you had like other stuff, you know, and it was just, I don’t know, stylistically, it’s just very different from anything that we’d seen until then. [00:12:38] And at that point, even though like MTB had a distinct style, like that was to my knowledge, I think they’d had some game shows, but that was like, MTV’s first. Into, like there was MTV news, but in, into programming. [00:12:52] Jeff: Yeah, totally. And like I, so I started watching MTV the year it came out and I remember in like [00:13:00] 1984, my brother and I had this game where the credits for the video would come on. [00:13:06] I think two seconds after the Vizio video started maybe four and you would see the name of the artist, the song, the album director, all this stuff. And we had this game where we had to try to get all of those credits out of our mouth before it came on. And like, it was so about music and so about that. [00:13:23] And, and like, knowing who’s doing what videos and you know, what album that’s from, like it was this, it was this awesome enhancement for, for fans. Like all of a sudden you had a little more data to take in and you were a little more consistently exposed to it. And so I loved it just for music forever and ever, and ever, like, I still have VHS recordings of most of the video music awards from [00:13:44] Christina: those days. [00:13:44] Right? Oh yeah. Yeah, no, they were huge. And, and I mean, that’s another thing too, you know, 92, like that the, the show comes out and like, No one who was in it knew that it was going to become this phenomenon. And you know, it, it starts airing not long after they, um, um, stopped filming. [00:14:00] I think they might’ve even had them like doing some of the photo shoot stuff at the very last things they were, you know, um, like episodes and then it, it becomes just this, this phenomenon. [00:14:10] And they wind up at the, at the VMs and are like bigger stars in some cases than, you know, the, the actual musicians. And that makes the homecoming thing, I think really interesting because you see all of them reunited and where they are in their lives and how they’re still grappling in some cases with, with what happened, you know, 30 years previous. [00:14:30] And like, [00:14:31] Jeff: I got to thinking about, you know, cause like any reality TV show, there are all these sort of blow ups and there are some like legitimate, like sort of really difficult conversations that happen. We don’t really know how they were handled because it’s edited. Right. But we know that, like we know that there were real tears. [00:14:46] We know that there was real screaming and we know that that was the tears and the screaming were coming from people who had no idea what reality TV was or how it would look how, and when it cared. And so I was thinking a lot about, so like I’m again, like, I mean, [00:15:00] Exactly. You’re younger than, than Julie, who I think was the [00:15:02] Christina: youngest. [00:15:03] She was the youngest and she was sort of the, the protagonist, like, I mean, they were all kind of, you know, in that thing, but like, she was the one who I have to think that when they found her like the casting people, cause it was a casting process and most of the people were, were artists and she was a dancer. [00:15:15] But I have to think that when they found her that the, even, even if you’re new to the genre of television in that genre was brand new. But even if you’re like new to that, like you see someone like her. And I would just think even from like a documentary perspective, like you would just light up. [00:15:30] Jeff: Holy shit. [00:15:31] Totally. Yeah. And like, so then she comes out of, I think Birmingham, she had never left and she goes to New York and, and like, you could, you could feel that, you know what I mean? Like as a white kid in the suburbs, like I could feel that totally. [00:15:44] Christina: And in what was, and what was interesting about her is that, and this is different than when they would kind of do the fish out of water thing. [00:15:49] The other stuff is that it would be easy to put her in a boat of, okay, well, she’s just like, uh, uh, you know, a hillbilly, you know, whatever, but, but she, she was [00:16:00] really open to new experiences and, and, and obviously, you know, the most famous thing from that season was, is the, the fight between her and Kevin Powell, um, about, about race who’s black, uh, about race. [00:16:13] And they deal with that a lot in, in the, the homecoming show. Um, but even like, If you go back and watch the rest of the series, which I know you’re doing, like, it is interesting to see, you know, she hadn’t been exposed to a lot of these other things and certainly she was wrong in that argument. Although I think that, you know, you have to put it with the perspective of like she’s 19 years old and, you know, didn’t realize, you know, all these things would wind up, you know, living on forever. [00:16:37] Um, but, but she wasn’t like this minded person. Right. Which, which, which I think made it, which I’m not sure if they knew right. We tried, which I think made it that much more interesting for the audience, because she was in many cases, the, the stand-in for the audience at home of the suburban white kids who were watching this. [00:16:55] And most of us, I mean, I was, I certainly had never been exposed to [00:17:00] people like Kevin or Norman, you know, were, are, or, or even, you know, um, uh, Eric, you know what I mean? Like there were just people like you, you didn’t know that, that. Supermodel remodel. Exactly. MTV’s Eric. Nice. Uh, from the grind. Um, yeah, like you didn’t know, you know, these types of people and, um, and she didn’t really seem to shy away from that. [00:17:22] Like, she actually understood that when she went anywhere, the cameras would follow her. Like went in like wanted to highlight homelessness because she’s. savvy actually. Yeah, [00:17:34] Jeff: totally. And, and like I was thinking about, I was so as I watched the really just like the beginning, like the montage beginning, where they kind of juxtapose now, and then, and everything I was realizing like, man, I, again, they’re, they’re in this brand new situation because they, they all have, they all have like, uh, let’s just say, I mean, there’s no doubt, gotta be some level of traumas from that experience, whether it’s related to celebrity [00:18:00] related to things that actually happened in that loft or whatever it is. [00:18:02] Right. And then they all went their separate ways. And like, I know that for me, um, there are people from high school that like, uh, you know, I could probably imagine somebody saying you should get together and work this out with them. I wouldn’t want to do it again in the cafeteria all these years later. [00:18:20] But I think for them, I can’t imagine there’s any other way they can. Reconnect and reconcile and whatever they need to do to put, to put some of those things, you know, properly away in the drawer for the rest of their life. How do they do it without going back into the [00:18:34] Christina: exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, and we’ll stop here because I know bread is, is, is dying, but [00:18:39] Brett: even get to talking about the homecoming yet? [00:18:42] Jeff: well, no, cause we are, [00:18:43] Christina: cause that’s what we talking about. [00:18:44] Like [00:18:44] Brett: Okay. Like I know I left. I just got back. I’m just checking [00:18:48] Christina: We’re we’re we’re but, but, but, but I was going to say like, um, and, and if you need to cut this down, you can bread, but like, um, w what. [00:18:56] Brett: edit. [00:18:57] Christina: What watch watch the homecoming. Jeff, I [00:19:00] think you’ll really like it. It’s very interesting to see how everyone is turned out. [00:19:03] And it’s very interesting to see what people didn’t evolve in, in ways that you, that you thought they might. Um, uh, I will just do a spoiler because I think it’s very cool, like, especially because, and they do focus a lot on, um, um, uh, you know, uh, Kevin and Julie’s fight and they deal with that like very head-on, um, and in both of their traumas from that, you know, and, and, and she, you know, had, um, had a very different like, uh, perspective, but like, what she does now is she works with like getting, um, you know, um, lower income and, and disadvantage, like, like kids in, like, she works with them, getting them into colleges and stuff, and, and, um, and her daughter is like, who’s, you know, like 17 years old is like a massive, like, like civil rights activist and. [00:19:49] You know, so, and Kevin was right. Everything that he said in that argument, people weren’t ready to hear in 92. And I think he, he gets his comeuppance not come up, but like he gets his, his credit. He gets [00:20:00] his dues for that because he was correct. Um, and, but, but it is interesting to see, like you see who’s evolved and who hasn’t. [00:20:07] And, um, and, and it’s really, really interesting, but I, but I think, uh, because she was the protagonist of the, of the show, it is interesting, like to, I still really like her a lot and it, and it’s kind of heartwarming in a sense to kind of see like, How her life has, has changed in how she’s evolved and in it. [00:20:26] And it makes you hope, you know, because again, she was kind of like the, the standard for the audience. Um, and this is too helpful, but like you think like, okay, well maybe the audiences has evolved and changed and grown to in that. [00:20:38] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and just one last thing, what you just said, something that’s really important, which is that like, in that, without recapping the conversation or the, the really the like argument and discourse that Kevin and Julie were having, like, he was fucking right. [00:20:52] And also what I, what I, and I was coming at it, you know, I spent a good chunk of my childhood and I half black half white household. And so, like, [00:21:00] I was feeling some of that in that sense too, but I was definitely feeling Julie more than anything. Cause obviously I’m the white guy and I like, right. We have some programming. [00:21:08] Um, but like what I didn’t realize until we were just talking is that that whole series, that whole season was shot over the time that, uh, Rodney king. So it’s like February to may and March Rodney king is beaten. [00:21:20] Christina: And that was exactly. [00:21:23] Jeff: Yeah. And here they are. And here they are just about, you know, I guess now a couple years past George Floyd’s murder, but it’s just interesting that there’s this kind of connection to those two events. [00:21:33] I don’t remember the king. Uh, beading being brought up in that season. [00:21:38] Christina: They, I don’t know if they brought it up or not. There are, there’s some footage in the homecoming thing where I think they show some stuff that wasn’t, um, filmed or it wasn’t shown on air where it is addressed. Um, and, and I know in, I know in the Los Angeles season, I think the trial happened and they talked about it, but you have to remember, I mean, this is what was weird. [00:21:54] They, they wound up instituting different rules, but they initially, you know, like [00:22:00] later on you weren’t allowed to have television or anything. And so they, they did have TV then, you know, they were allowed to watch news and he came and went. Yeah. I mean, later on it became much more of a, like, [00:22:10] Jeff: we don’t really want race coming in like [00:22:12] Christina: this again. [00:22:13] Well, it was more or less. We don’t really want, like, we, we want to control the complete, like, you know, narrative of all this stuff. And, and we want to, we’re making this a social experiment of as much, as much as anything else, you know what I mean? Um, so, um, I feel like, uh, but like, um, Yeah, they talk about that. [00:22:31] And then they also talk about the George Floyd stuff. So I think, I think you’ll like it, and now we, now we can be, we can be done. [00:22:37] Jeff: I can’t wait. Thank you. [00:22:38] Brett: you. [00:22:38] know what I need a doctor after all that. Um, [00:22:41] Jeff: W what kind of doctor? [00:22:43] Brett: I’ll tell you, what kind of doctor? [00:22:44] Christina do you want to tell us about Zoc doc [00:22:47] Jeff: I definitely [00:22:47] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:22:47] Christina: want to tell us about Zoc doc. as Brett was saying, after that, we definitely need a doctor. We definitely need to get like our heads in gear. And so Zoc doc is the best way to do that [00:22:56] finding and booking a doctor. Who’s right for you. It doesn’t need to be a [00:23:00] terrible experience. Will it take your insurance, understand your needs or be available when you see them? Well, with Zoc doc, the answer can re, can be a refreshing, only pain free. Yes. So I’ve actually been using Zoc doc for over a decade. [00:23:14] Now. It is the only app that I kind of use when I’m looking to find a doctor. I really, really like it. I think you should use it too. Um, What I really like about Zoc doc is that you can use the app to find quality doctors, uh, who take your insurance in your area and whatever specialty you want. You can read reviews from actual people, and then you can book your appointment in the app. [00:23:37] So you don’t have to call. You don’t have to like deal with your insurance company is terrible website to figure out, you know, who, who they’re, um, you know, supported providers. It’s all just on the app. It’s really, really great. Uh, it is a free app that shows you doctors who were patient reviewed. Again, like I said, take your insurance, which is very important and are available when you need them. [00:23:57] And so you can read up on local doctors, you can get verified patient [00:24:00] reviews and you can see what other real humans had to say about their visit. And so when you walk into that doctor’s office, you are set up to see someone in your network who gets you. And every month millions of people use doc, doc. [00:24:11] I’m one of them. It is my go-to. Whenever I need to find and book a doctor and in the chaotic world of healthcare, let Zoc doc be your trusted guide to find a quality doctor in a way that is surprisingly pain-free with Zoc doc. You can get your docs in a row. [00:24:27] Brett: Ah, [00:24:27] Christina: you see, we see what they did. They they’re. [00:24:29] Yeah. So go to Zoc doc.com/overtired and download the Zoc doc app for free. And then start your search for top rated doctor today. Monies are available within 24 hours. That’s Z O C D O c.com/overtired that’s Zoc doc.com/overtired. [00:24:49] Brett: it’s so easy. [00:24:52] Christina: It is all right, [00:24:54] Jeff: so it’s easy. [00:24:56] Clean Installs and Mental Health [00:24:56] Brett: so so Jeff added like Jeff put, [00:25:00] pitched a bunch of really good ideas for, um, this, this episode. Well, the last episode, but we kind of screwed them on less episode and just talked about the nineties. [00:25:10] the whole time, but one of his topics, and I will read this verbatim your mental health ain’t right. Colon one Mac users, early warning system. [00:25:20] And I feel like that’s a perfect way to get in our mental health corner because for everyone else it’s been a week, but for us, like literally nothing in our mental health has changed because it’s, we just hit a mental health corner an hour ago. [00:25:35] Christina: Exactly. So, so, so yeah. Yeah. So Jeff, tell us about your system. [00:25:39] Jeff: Um, okay. So this here’s, here’s what this is about. Um, I, I have this, this problem and it’s like sort of an addiction or something and it’s, it’s addictive behavior. I cleaned install my Mac operating system and everything else. Sometimes multiple times a year.[00:26:00] [00:26:00] And I have long been a little bit ashamed of that because I lose a lot of time. And I recently was kind of like reassessing my general behavior in light of my mental health and some recent diagnoses. And, and I realized that if I’m clean, installing my Mac or even thinking about it, I am on the verge of. [00:26:26] Imbalanced mental health. And, and I’m trying to, I’m trying to gain some sort of control over what feels very chaotic. And so for me, the work I do, uh, involves so much context shifting so much context, shifting that everything can just feel so scattered. And if you, if you ma, if I match that feeling of feeling scattered with a feeling of just being desperate, to have some sense of control over my, my kind of work-life my, you know what I mean? [00:26:58] I, what I will do [00:27:00] is, and I’m not saying this makes sense, again, this is a mental health, like it’s a, it’s a warning, right? Is I will completely clean install. I love a fresh install. And then I will just consider all of my apps again and bring them in. And then I will, you know, decide what notes to bring in. [00:27:17] And what this has done actually is horrible because it’s created for me a digital archive of. Oh, it’s awful. It’s such a mess. Like I have some times, you know, if you figure that I’m like throwing everything onto an external drive, right. Or I’m, I’m pulling a cloud backup down when I like clean, you know, completely erase the computer. [00:27:36] Like if I don’t finish that process, which I never fully finished a clean install, then I’ve just, I’m like going to end up with basically like duplicate documents. Right? So like, if my, if my envy alt now envy ultra archive is like in several folders and I don’t bring them all in. Some they’re going to sit out there and then sometime they’re going to join up with some [00:28:00] duplicates when I do this again, and pretty soon, I’m going to have 60 copies of like one, one, you know, text document of meeting notes. [00:28:07] This also, if this, if this hold on, if this all sounds crazy, it’s because it is. But what I just realized in this last week was that I can actually go back and look at the times that I’ve done a clean install and it actually matches up with times that I was not right in other ways in my, in my life. And so it’s not just, it’s clearly to me, not just that I need to get control of my work life. [00:28:33] As I used to think, even though I knew it tended to create more chaos than it did calm, um, what it is in fact is something I can trust that if I am starting to think I want to do a clean install, I may need to find some spaciousness and figure out what’s going on with me inside. [00:28:51] Brett: so multiple clean installs a year, and your system’s actually messier than if you hadn’t done it at all. Does that seem. [00:28:59] Jeff: [00:29:00] Oh, yeah, way messier way messier. So, uh, so I mean like a pattern for me in my life. So first of all, when I was a kid, I moved like 36 times. Wow. And, and so part of what I, what I have traditionally kind of, um, attach this to, cause I’ll, I’ll do the same thing with like my office or something. Like I’ll just like pull everything up, undo all the cables, make a map and redo all the cables. [00:29:25] And then if there’s something that, that feels comforting in doing that, and I have such distinct memories of like setting up my room in an apartment, building my posters, just right. Um, my, you know, my treasured, you know, items just right. Really loving the feeling in that room. And then in six months having to like take it all down and then move to a new room where it was a completely blank slate. [00:29:50] That was frustrating as hell, but it also became something. I liked, it was like, cool, let’s start over. You know, I know I have friends and maybe one of you, or [00:30:00] both of you are like this. I have friends who still have their, their room from childhood. Exactly. As it was mine changed constantly. And, and I have a feeling that something was written into my brain from that experience, uh, repeated experience and it, and it sort of plays out in my adult life where, when I need to feel like I need to start over. [00:30:21] Part of that is literally just cleaning every single. You know, and, and, and the really like, kind of really sad part about it is that it creates a lot of additional mess because redoing a computer system when you’re like a quote unquote power user, um, and especially the way I do it, which is I tend to want to kind of like build it all up from scratch. [00:30:41] You can never finish that. Like you’re never going to get fully finished and what’s going to happen is someone’s going to need a document or they’re going to need you to do something. And you realize, oh, I haven’t linked those two things yet. And that’s the only reason I can’t answer this person right now. [00:30:53] So I understand I’m describing something that’s very extreme. Right. But it makes me wonder for you all. Is there a [00:31:00] way in the way that you manage your computer or some other thing that’s kind of a non-traditional early warning system. Do you have those. [00:31:10] Brett: for me, it’s my RSS feed like you and my GitHub commits. Well, okay. So maybe not as an early warning system, but as documentation of my, my bipolar episodes, like I can look at, you know, that graph that get hub gives you showing activity on a repository. I can look at my overall, get commits and see exactly where I was manic. [00:31:37] Like it’s, it’s a perfect match. I can also, I have like, you know, sleep apps that tell me where I wasn’t sleeping too, but, uh, get commits and, and RSS feeds, I guess, really the early warning system is, am I making more than to get hub, like pushes to get in a day, then I might be manic. [00:32:00] [00:32:01] Jeff: Wow. [00:32:04] Christina: I hadn’t ever thought about this, but I have a feeling so like you, I, I don’t think it for me, the clean install thing is maybe like, uh, uh, uh, uh, um, I don’t know if it’s a early warning sign, although I do like to do it, if anything, sometimes it’s, it’s a way I kind of come out of stuff, but for me it is definitely, I don’t know if it’s computer wise. [00:32:24] Um, I’m trying to think maybe, maybe if notes are disorganized or maybe again, like if I’m not, if I haven’t access that, that I’m usually actually. Frequently. If I looked at it, if I looked into the data, I bet that would probably tell me that that is like, Hey, this isn’t common, right? Like you’re not, you’re not using something that you usually use. [00:32:42] And that means that you were depressed. Like I have a feeling you’re very common. And [00:32:45] Jeff: do you mean when you say that, do you mean like a workflow you usually use or do you mean? [00:32:50] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean like a workflow or even just nap. I like write like, but if there’s a workload like that is me, like when I’m in my kind of, you know, more like not depressed and like kind of [00:33:00] happy space versus actually, you know what I know exactly a great one. [00:33:04] And, and right now, ironically, it is garbage, which is kind of accurate when my email is completely out of control. That is a sign that I’m depressed because I don’t want to go to my email. So I don’t want to look at what’s being sent to me. So it’s, it’s completely out of control. So when my, my email is never in a great place, but when it is one of those things where people send me messages and I just don’t see them, it is because I’m not opening it because I mentally can’t even go there. [00:33:27] And so that to me, [00:33:29] Brett: go ahead. [00:33:31] Christina: No, I was going to say so, so that, that I think is a, is a big indicator for me when I’m depressed is it might, if people say, Hey, I sent you a, met a mail and I have no concept of it because I genuinely like cannot like mentally open [00:33:45] Jeff and Christina: my [00:33:45] Jeff: mail. There are other ways that you sort of disappear when you’re in that, that kind of depressive space [00:33:51] Christina: or is that there definitely can be that’s that there definitely can be. [00:33:54] I think email is one of the ones where I feel like I can almost like hide it [00:34:00] the best. Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. Cause, cause for me, with my depression, I never want people to know I’m depressed. And then that’s a common thing with most people who are depressed. Like you don’t want [00:34:07] Brett: That’s like a symptom of depression. [00:34:09] Christina: Exactly. [00:34:10] Like you don’t want anybody to know. And so you’re trying to keep on like the, like the, the big face of like, everything is okay. Um, but for me, I definitely, uh, there are things also like, like text conversations will be less, you know, I won’t comment with people as much and, and whatnot. So that is definitely a thing. [00:34:24] But I think email, I hadn’t even thought about it until this conversation. I think when my email is neglected and where it’s that thing where I’m not even opening it. So it’s not even so much that I haven’t necessarily replied or what level, but I don’t even open it because I just don’t like, I, it just gives me anxiety and I just, you know, don’t feel like I can, that, that is definitely a [00:34:41] Jeff: symptom. [00:34:42] Yeah. Yeah. It’s so weird. Right? Cause like, I think we’re, we’re all saying is that to the extent that we share with anybody else, either in our life or in our wider community, that we’re depressed, our computer knows and it doesn’t know, it doesn’t know. Cause we’re opening up a text [00:35:00] file and journaling, it knows does have this or that. [00:35:03] Yeah. I have long had this, this wondering that I don’t want to call it a theory because I think it’s, it’s a little too forward, but I’ve always had this wondering, you know, as I, as I’ve listened to the like power user community over the years, um, like how I would love to just have a way a language around assessing the connection of like mental health to the need, to do certain things, to have that kind of control. [00:35:33] Like we all can easily say automations are to make things a little easier for us. We like being efficient. Maybe some people will say, oh, I’m OCD or whatever. And like the sort of lowercase OCD. Right. Um, but like when I hear people talk about, um, some of this stuff without ever talking about what happens when it all falls apart and why does it all fall apart? [00:35:54] I always kind of just suspect I’m like, I feel like there’s a mental health conversation we’re not having. [00:36:00] [00:36:00] Christina: Yeah, no, I think [00:36:01] Jeff and Christina: you’re [00:36:01] Jeff: right. Anyway anyway, but I’m so glad for that because it is, I mean, the thing about stuff, like what you do bread is that like, You know, like for instance, there’s a, there’s a bunch of file I use when I’m going to be updating my project’s website. [00:36:16] And I am someone who just for my own like brain chemistry reasons. Like I struggled like how with context switching so much so that I can get completely paralyzed and like put off something that’s actually quite simple for quite a long time. But when I wrote a bunch file, You know, tells my computer to basically set up my three screens for, for working on the website. [00:36:40] All of a sudden I was working on the website so much more, or like Brett laughs at me because on my, on my, um, Synology, despite the fact that I’ve used Alfred and Quicksilver before that, uh, my Synology, I have a whole page of just apps because something about my brain, there’s something that happens between I need to open one password and me opening one [00:37:00] password. [00:37:00] And sometimes that small moment is just enough spaciousness for me to get distracted. And so like, if I can literally just press a physical button and launch it, I don’t lose track. [00:37:12] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Um, man. Okay. I’m only half tracking what’s going on right now. Um, so, so, okay. Here’s the story is we’re recording a marathon and at this point, as you’re listening to it, it was last week. Uh, we’re trying to make up for our disastrous loss of two and a half hours of golden footage, um, by recording all at once. [00:37:40] But because the first half of this needs to come out on the same day it’s being recorded, I’m like editing and trying to podcast at the same time. And that’s [00:37:49] Jeff: Totally [00:37:50] Brett: total Dick move. Total Dick move. Like w what we’re talking about right now should be like what I’m most excited about, and I’m distracted and I’m sorry. [00:37:59] Jeff: you’re just [00:38:00] the friend texting in the corner. Cause you’re not able to be quite there yet. [00:38:03] Brett: Oh, [00:38:03] Christina: Totally. Although I’m a friend, although I’m a friend who texts in the corner, but it’s also listening. Like I’m actively like, like ADHD. I have to explain to people I’m like, no, no, no. I know it looks like I am not paying attention to you. [00:38:14] Trust me what I am doing, which seems so rude is actually how I’m able to pay attention to you. So, [00:38:19] Jeff: yes, [00:38:20] Brett: Right. The [00:38:21] Jeff: like [00:38:21] Brett: fidgeting. [00:38:22] Christina: I have that conversation with people and people don’t believe me. No, I look, if I could take this away, I would. But even my, my psychiatrist is like, Nope, that’s actually a very good coping mechanism. [00:38:32] Like, thank you. Right? Like, like, like I’m like, I will literally zone out and not be focused if I don’t have something else going on in my hind brain, but depressed. But Brett, this is a different thing. Like you’re trying to edit, you’re trying to actually do something. So the two of us [00:38:46] could just go back to talking about the real world and you wouldn’t [00:38:48] Jeff: know. [00:38:49] I have no idea. [00:38:51] Christina: Um, [00:38:52] The Perfect Night Stand [00:38:52] Christina: okay. You, you have some really good things here. I want to go into to one thing. Uh, is there such a thing as a perfect [00:39:00] nightstand? Talk to me about [00:39:01] Jeff: this. [00:39:03] Uh, okay. So like, [00:39:06] Um, I have struggled to have a nightstand that I really appreciate and use, and I’m glad to sleep next to for a very long time. [00:39:14] Like I flipped things out all the time and, and granted I’m part of the problem is I’m not willing to spend a lot of money and it’s not that I’m not willing. It’s that like, [00:39:23] Christina: you know, if you don’t value the nightstand standards, like where you should be putting your [00:39:27] Jeff: well, not even that, like, actually I would be happy to do that. [00:39:31] If I didn’t have the guard rails of a partner, who’s more fiscally responsible, but like, I, for me, it’s like, I just don’t know if I can ever define the perfect nightstand and I want help with that because what I always do is I always just get a flat surface. So as an example, my nightstand right now is, is a, um, it’s a college, a V card from a dumpster. [00:39:53] Um, Just the height of my bed and it’s like pink for Micah and I love it and it’s on fucking wheels. Right. And as [00:40:00] long as its own little outlet or whatever, but like at the end of the day, it’s just a surface to throw shit on. And the more I get old and I’m medicated, it’s like, literally looks like I’m in assisted living. [00:40:10] It’s just like [00:40:11] Christina: tissues. I was going to say, I was going to say, this is very far right. Because, because it’s got, it’s got the wheels and you can put your stuff on it. I hadn’t even thought about that. But I’m like, yeah, that is totally like assisted living. They’re like, yes, let me push, push the medicine card. [00:40:24] And the thing with all the other. Totally. And [00:40:27] Jeff: on top of that, it’s like, because it’s a college for Micah AAV thing, it’s institutional, right. Like I thought it was just adorable as shit when I got it. But, and it was more just, it was the perfect height, but like, what I don’t want to do is get like a S I mean, this is for lack of a better term, like a smart nightstand, where I’ve got like a wireless charger and, and stuff. [00:40:47] That all would be nice, but I want one, that’s going to grow old with me. And so what the fuck do I need to be happy with it? So it’s not just collecting bullshit. The only thing I have an answer for is I know I needed to.[00:41:00] [00:41:00] Christina: Right. I mean, I, look, I, why are you attracted to this caught topic? I don’t know, because I’d never thought about this topic and, and I don’t particularly like either of my nightstands. Um, but I now I’m like actually interested in like going to like CB two or, um, you know, something in like in like actually looking like I’m actually excited about, about potentially, potentially doing that. [00:41:21] But like [00:41:22] Jeff: what CBT is going to give you is welded quarter, inch or half inch steel, you know, square tubing frame, lightweight with like, uh, maybe a drawer and a top. I feel like the more I look, the more I realize, like you can either have really beautiful minimal, which is totally CB too. I love that place. [00:41:40] Yeah. Or you can have like gimmicky. Like, you know, you know, here’s a place for your pen and your highlighter, you know? And it’s like, fuck, I just, I don’t know what I need, but I need something better. [00:41:52] Brett: So. [00:41:53] Jeff: I just want to lay down in bed and feel like I got what I need. And I’ll talk about a house person a second. [00:41:58] Go ahead, [00:41:58] Brett: I kept, I [00:42:00] kept jumping in with clever things to say over the last five minutes. And you guys kept like talking over me and I was really confused cause I check my mic and it was on somehow, somehow Skype muted, my mic. So like the weird thing is that shit’s going to show up because I’m recording [00:42:19] my local Mike, Skype. [00:42:23] So I’m going to have to go through and edit out all the parts where I tried to interrupt you guys and just got trampled on. [00:42:31] Jeff: Is this all in the nightstand conversation? [00:42:33] Brett: Well, okay. So how many drawers do you need in your nightstand? Is it just [00:42:38] Jeff: ne I should not have more than one. [00:42:41] Brett: Yeah, I feel the same way. [00:42:43] Jeff: But it needs to be, it needs to be, you know, at least I’d say four to six inches deep, [00:42:49] Brett: Yeah, like I need one drawer. That’s four books, uh, medications that I take at night, things like that. If there’s another drawer, [00:43:00] it’s basically just going to be sex toys Um, and well, and you you need a drawer for that. You do like that shit [00:43:06] Christina: do you [00:43:07] do I don’t know. I, it does. I don’t know. Like if it, I mean, it could be your nightstand, right? I think it just depends like on, on your, your layout, right? Yeah. [00:43:14] Jeff: But now you’re definitely talking either one very big drawer where your sex toys and your books are mixed up, which is super fucking weird. [00:43:20] Or you’re talking [00:43:21] about two drawers. [00:43:23] Brett: I currently [00:43:24] Christina: yeah. I was gonna say, [00:43:25] Brett: for every. [00:43:26] Christina: yeah yeah See, I would, I would definitely be like, I think that if, if you’re not going to, if you’re not going to have the sex toys, like in a, um, like a Rubbermaid, like Ben, like under the bed or something, then you need to have like a separate drawer on the right. [00:43:39] Jeff: Yeah, I think, yeah, you got to it’s like business and pleasure. You got to separate that shit unless it’s a mullet, but even there you’re separating [00:43:46] Brett: Should you have a nice center in each set? Oh, share a bed with your partner? [00:43:51] Is that too personal? A question. Um, so you each have your own nightstand? [00:43:58] Yeah. Well [00:44:00] obviously she doesn’t have [00:44:03] an AAV cart [00:44:05] Jeff: I didn’t even think about that one. I said, [00:44:08] Christina: yeah, I actually was curious about that too. I was like, do you have two of them? Like, is it one of those things? Like, we’re like, like, like your, your, your partner’s like really into like the, the, um, like kind of kitsch value to that now. Like it was kitsch when you got it and now you’re like, oh, now I’m now, now it makes it look like the old folks. [00:44:23] So maybe, [00:44:24] Jeff: yeah, no. So yes. I only have the one. Um, I only have the one nightstand to work. And, but can I tell you that a solution that I’m hoping is working me towards, it’s really an experiment that’s working me towards, what do I need at bed, which is something I call my house purse and it’s actually like, it’s, I’ll put a link in the show notes, but it’s, it’s made by Husky, which is like a brand that makes, you know, tools and whatnot at home Depot. [00:44:51] And it’s like an open tool bag with like all of these. And this is where I feel like I’m such a fucking Tim Allen home-improvement asshole for even [00:45:00] having this as what I call my house purse, but it’s got like everything I would possibly need in it. And I always end up moving shit downstairs when I get up down to the basement, if I’m going to watch TV. [00:45:11] So I’ve made, I can’t believe I’m making this public. I made a house purse, which I call it. My family can only refer to it by the house purse. And it has, let me just pull it out. Thanks for asking. Um, right now, Right now, what I’ve got in there is I’ve got my meds. I’ve got one. That’s just for trash. That’s key. [00:45:30] Uh, I’ve got some cables in one. I’ve got different kinds of headphones. Cause you never know, you know how the spirit will move, you know, sex toys. I’ve got, uh, markers and pens and a reporter’s notebook [00:45:42] Brett: toys. [00:45:43] Jeff: in here. I mean, I [00:45:45] Brett: if there were I feel like you wouldn’t explicitly point out that there weren’t sex toys. You would’ve just glossed over it. So I believe you. [00:45:53] Jeff: Okay. And then I got a, I got a bottle of Pepto-Bismol, but like I also like I’ll put anything. I feel like my [00:46:00] iPad, my, my laptop fits in there and I’ve been starting to wonder first. This was like, Hey, let’s see what I really need by my bedside. That is, that moves around during the day. But now I’m like maybe the house purses, the solution. [00:46:13] Christina: Yeah. I mean, Probably not a bad idea. [00:46:20] Jeff: Thanks for entertaining. This. I really [00:46:21] Christina: took this in a weird direction. No, but I mean, I, I never thought about that. It’s funny. My, my husband, he has like, his like purse is basically one of my Dell, like one of my, um, uh, Delta, little to me, like, um, amenity kit, like holder things to have, like, I have like dozens of them. [00:46:35] Yeah. He has like some of those and he’s like puts like kids, you know, stuff in it and whatnot, and kind of carries. Uh, that, that kind of around, which is [00:46:43] Jeff: nice. Well, and it actually has like this other purpose. So now let’s just switch into, um, promoting the idea of a house purse. Okay. Forget nightstands. [00:46:51] But we can return to that, like this morning at S uh, one 30 in the morning, my mom texted me and said, I’m having kidney pain. [00:47:00] It’s not an emergency yet. She has a really rough history. I found her almost dead in her apartment a couple of years back. And she was in a coma for weeks and all this stuff. And so I lived in the ICU, which does talk about needing to like, have certain things on hand. [00:47:14] You’re just like helpless. If you get to the ICU and your phone’s dead, right. Like it’s just the worst. And so I, I generally keep the stuff around in case I have to rush out for her. The house purse in a bind. I can just grab it and go, and pretty much trust I have what I need, because if I’m going to spend the night at the hospital, it’s a go-bag, but it doesn’t, there are no zippers. [00:47:35] This is really important. There are no zippers, it’s all open pockets, all around it. And the main thing. So it’s like, you can see what’s in there. Nothing gets lost. [00:47:43] Brett: Why is that important? Just for visibility. [00:47:45] Jeff: You zip it up. And now you’re, you know, is it in this pocket, this bag of this bag? And I can look down at my house purse and I can see everything. [00:47:53] Brett: I have had very few backpacks in my life that have had the exact right number of pockets, because if [00:48:00] there’s one too many pockets, it takes, it’s like us plugging in a USB cord. It’s always, it’s always going to be in the like third pocket you check. But if you have the exact right number of pockets, it becomes like intuitive. [00:48:12] You just know where shit is. And that I get that. I get planning around that. [00:48:18] Jeff: Brett TURPs, Joe. [00:48:19] Brett: Thank you. Thank you. My valuable insight. [00:48:23] Jeff: And I wish you hadn’t introduced me at all because I’m realizing that without an introduction, it’s just like, who is this fucking nut? [00:48:29] Christina: Which, um, I mean, honestly, it was great, but no, I’m glad that we have the introduction, but no, I’ve never thought about the task force idea, but this is, this is an interesting thing too, to just kind of have like, you know, kind of like a nice, like soft like bag to kind of the pockets and store things. [00:48:44] I, I liked this idea actually, [00:48:45] Jeff: plus plus it holds a water bottle. So I, that actually solves one of the nightstand problems, which is, do I leave a water bottle, [00:48:52] Christina: a water bottle up [00:48:53] Jeff: there, six glasses here, because it’s the last six nights of bringing [00:48:56] Christina: water up. Exactly, [00:48:58] Brett: have, I have at least six [00:49:00] glasses on by my bed right now. [00:49:01] Christina: same I have, and I had just had bottles. [00:49:03] I usually just like, I’m one of the terrible people who just like drinks out of the, you know, drinks, plastic, water bottles. Um, I’m not as terrible person. I, I totally, um, I, well, okay. Did you guys see the tick talk of the, the guy who was attempting to be a water. [00:49:16] No. [00:49:17] Okay. Okay. So there’s this, guy’s the most cringe thing ever. [00:49:20] And it’s crunch for many reasons. I was personally offended for really bad reasons, but there’s this, there’s this guy on Tik TOK, who is flexing about spending $2,000 on boss water a month where he has, he has like four fridges and he like fills them up with his, like frickin a glass, you know, a water, Stephanie he’s like, I just can’t drink, tap water. [00:49:43] I just can’t do this in that keep in mind, boss is actually like, well water from like Switzerland or splinter. So they claimed so, so he’s drinking, tap water. Um, he was like, I used to have the, the, the used to get Fiji, but I just really felt bad about all the plastic in Boston is, is glass and so much better. [00:49:59] It’s like, right. So [00:50:00] you’re importing, you know, $2,000 worth of this water a month and then putting it in fridges, even when you don’t need to use it. The Tik TOK is the most crunch thing I’ve ever seen. Uh, I’ll find it, [00:50:11] Brett: only Tik TOK I’ve ever seen is tick docs that get put on YouTube. I’ve never been to tick-tock. [00:50:19] Jeff: oh, what a wonderful place. It is truly a wonderful. [00:50:22] Brett: I hear that a lot. [00:50:24] Jeff: I don’t know. I don’t know where I’d be without it including like, I, you know, like as an example, there’s like, there’s an amazing sort of mental health tech talk out there for like, whatever diagnosis you either may have, or be kind of wondering about, it’s not people telling you how to fix it. [00:50:43] It’s a million people saying, this is what it is for me. Yeah. And [00:50:47] Christina: it, but it’s also people who create completely like creative, mental illnesses that they completely don’t have. [00:50:52] Jeff: Oh yeah. That’s all right. There’s that too. But for my, in my case, it worked, [00:50:56] Christina: I was going to say, it can be useful. It can be useful, but I do [00:51:00] like the mental health to talk kind of freaks me out a little bit because you have like people who go from being very helpful and they get a lot of views. [00:51:06] And then you see like people who are like, oh, well I want to be. Yes, you just, you just [00:51:11] Jeff: reminded me that at the end of the day, it is the internet. And I just, oh, go ahead. [00:51:16] Christina: Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, I put in the link in, in, in our, in our chat. If you want to view this, this tick tock, [00:51:24] Jeff: I watch it [00:51:24] Brett: Take up Tik TOK break. Is that [00:51:26] Christina: Yeah a tick-tock break Yeah, [00:51:28] we’re taking a psychotic break [00:51:29] Brett: happening [00:51:29] Christina: to watch this so I can, so I can rant [00:51:31] Jeff: about this. [00:51:32] Brett: Alright. So I want to play a sound effect while this happens, but I just realized after we finished the last episode that my sound effects, aren’t recording the silence. the tracks don’t match up. So I basically, came out with a track that just had two sound effects on it. Nothing else, no space between them. [00:51:50] And I thought I had it set to insert silence, but apparently once again, sound effects failed me. [00:51:57] Jeff: Um, uh, hold on. I got to just [00:52:00] stop playing. Stop [00:52:02] Marker [00:52:02] Jeff: Holy shit. What is. [00:52:05] Tell me what you know about this man. Do you know anything outside of what you’ve seen on? No, [00:52:09] Christina: I don’t accept that as Taylor runs rightly pointed out, she was like, everyone’s going to drag him. And then in a month he’s going to come up with his own water brand. And I was like, yep, absolutely. Yeah. The only thing, the only thing that got me, um, and we’ll have the link I’m, I’m putting this in our equip, uh, notes. [00:52:22] Uh, the only thing that got me about this and, and, and this was a total tangent from our better discussion about like our, our water glasses on our nightstands, um, is that this guy, like, he’s trying to flex and like, be like, oh, I’m so rich. I’ve got all this money. I spend $2,000 a month on, on water. You know, I do this and that. [00:52:40] And then he has a fricking fake Sub-Zero fridge. Like he’s got like the knockoff, like Frigidaire version. And I’m like, and I’m like, okay. And I’m like, I’m like, first of all, Is it 2006? Are we really like thinking that Voss water is like the end all be all was like, okay. Cause people with real money, I have a feeling like have high [00:53:00] infiltration systems in their house and aren’t getting, you know, $2,000 worth of like glass, water bottles delivered. [00:53:05] They’re like, no, I, I have like, uh, you know, filtration system. And then I have like on tap in every room of my house. Right. Um, but, but beyond that, like it’s, it’s the fake Sub-Zero fridge thing that just made me, that just was the most. That was the thing that to me, I just went, I hate everything about who you are. [00:53:23] Jeff: Yeah, man. What a jackass I, [00:53:26] Brett: whole part out. [00:53:27] Jeff: fine [00:53:27] Brett: guys [00:53:29] Jeff: whole [00:53:30] Brett: I didn’t, I [00:53:30] Jeff: just say. [00:53:31] Brett: watch it. [00:53:33] Jeff: Hold on. Hold on. If you didn’t watch it, you don’t have to talk about it. Give me a second. Here’s the, here’s what I recommend doing on Tik TOK. This is one of my new favorite things. So I’m a big fan of scroll on the lives and it’s, you know, at its best, it’s an amazing, just like montage of humanity, right? [00:53:55] Like some of it’s depressing, some of it’s super fucking problematic. Some of it’s like a guy [00:54:00] working at a fishery. Um, and, and lately what I’ve been trying is I just scroll the lives on mute and it’s fucking incredible. Like, I honestly do that and think about my youth and I think, oh my God, What I have access to here. [00:54:18] I’m seeing every corner. It feels like a world. Like there’s the Russian guy. Who’s, who’s like literally live broadcasting from, uh, you know, inside, uh, you know, he cut a hole in the ice and dove in and he’s barbecuing from the water and, and yelling basically. Right. And then the next one is this, this dude is like burned all over his body and, and he’s, uh, he’s just there talking and, uh, and, and doing like duets with people where you bring someone on or whatever next one’s a guy deejaying from his hospital bed. [00:54:54] Right. And then of course there are 4,000 white women, um, doing literally [00:55:00] exactly the same body movements to, to talk to you and communicate anyway, that’s you can cut that out to Brett, but I highly recommend scrolling your [00:55:09] mute. [00:55:09] Brett: it up. I’m betting that I didn’t at the point, people are listening to this. I didn’t keep the like 45 second pause while everyone went to watch the tic-tac video, but all the rest of it, the rest of it, I’m keeping it. I got to tell you about hunter Douglas before we get any further. [00:55:26] Um, [00:55:27] Christina: well, actually, which is a great segue from our decor conversation. [00:55:31] Sponsor: Hunter Douglas [00:55:31] Brett: right. If I had been on the ball. Who doesn’t love to live well to be perfectly at ease and comfort and style hunter Douglas can help you do just that with their innovative window shade designs, gorgeous fabrics and control system. So advanced that could be scheduled to automatically adjust to their optimal position throughout the day. [00:55:53] Perhaps it’s the way shades diffuse, harsh sunlight to cast a beautiful glow across the room, or being [00:56:00] able to enjoy the view outside the window while protecting your privacy inside. Maybe it’s the superior insulation. The shades provide keeping you warmer in winter cooler in summer and lowering utility bills, or is it simply that Goldilocks moment when you walk into a room and everything about it just looks and feels right? [00:56:21] When you tap into hunter Douglas is power view technology. Your shades can be set to automatically reposition for the perfect balance of light privacy insulation. Morning, noon and night. Um, I don’t, I don’t have these yet, but ever since they first sent me this copy, it’s all I thought about every time I walk into my living room, I want, and I want the automation, but I want the perfect lighting. [00:56:49] Keep your mouth SHUT [00:56:49] Brett: I’m obsessed perfect lighting. And this sounds amazing. I’m working on getting some, I want it to happen. I also want to get a new house with better light coming in the [00:57:00] windows to begin with. But hunter Douglas sounds amazing. So live beautifully with hunter Douglas, enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. [00:57:13] Visit hunter douglas.com/overtired today for your free style. Get smarter design guide with fresh takes creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. That’s hunter douglas.com/overtired for your free design guide, man, I’m obsessed with lighting, both natural and electric. I just, I love, I love the right lighting. [00:57:37] I don’t have that in my living room right now. It’s too dark there. My girlfriend is working on a sweater and I didn’t want to tell her that I thought that color was only mediocre. And like it’s it’s okay. But at best it was okay. And then I visited her, visited her at the yarn shop where she works and she had it there and she was working on it and I saw it under their [00:58:00] lighting. [00:58:00] And I [00:58:01] like, [00:58:01] holy shit. That is a, you picked an amazing color. And of course she knew that she picked it out at the yarn store. Uh, she, she knew what she was doing, but it was, uh, it was, uh, it dawned on me that we need new lights in her living room. [00:58:16] Christina: yeah. And I, I would say that’s like a good example of, of like you’re needing, uh, knowing that, but also well done Brett on like, knowing not to share with her. I think it’s a mediocre color, like a good job. Like, like clearly [00:58:29] Jeff: like, [00:58:29] Brett: wouldn’t, I wouldn’t lie. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t like, oh, that’s amazing. [00:58:33] Jeff: I know, I know, [00:58:34] Brett: you picked such a good color. I wouldn’t lie, but I do know when to maybe not [00:58:39] Christina: when [00:58:39] to not. [00:58:40] Brett: honest. [00:58:40] Christina: Well, well, it’s not that you’re being totally honest. It’s just like, you’re not sharing. Like, it’s kind of like, I I’ve been trying this thing on Twitter. I’ve had like moderate success with it where I’m like, kind of, I’m trying to take my own advice and like, you don’t always have to share your opinion on everything. [00:58:55] Like, you know, and that’s, that’s a new thing I’ve been trying. [00:59:00] I still shit post of course, but I’ve been like trying this new thing where I’m like, you know what? I don’t have to comment on everything. Like don’t, uh, don’t have to, I don’t have to get into the Kanye, uh, Kim Kardashians, uh, discourse. I can actually, I can actually keep my [00:59:13] Jeff: mouth shut. [00:59:14] Brett: is that why we haven’t had, uh, who Christina pissed off on the internet corner for the last few weeks? [00:59:19] Christina: And this is [00:59:20] Brett: the for [00:59:21] Christina: I was, I was kind of hoping I made a, a joke yesterday that I was kinda hoping would, would piss people off, but it didn’t. Um, I tweeted, uh, trying to decide if pages, people or LIBOR office people or worse Libra office people ruin the formatting, no matter what they do, but pages people somehow think it’s acceptable to send a dot pages file to anyone ever. [00:59:41] Jeff: Yes, that’s a problem. It is. [00:59:44] Brett: Wait say, say [00:59:45] again [00:59:47] Christina: Okay. Trying to decide a pages, people or LIBOR office, people are worse. Libra office people ruin the formatting no matter what they do, but pages people somehow think it is acceptable to send a dot pages file to anyone ever.[01:00:00] [01:00:00] Brett: Okay. So, okay. But it’s okay to send a doc X file to anyone ever. [01:00:05] Christina: Yeah Cause everything can open it [01:00:07] Brett: I hate doc X so much. I [01:00:09] Christina: That’s fine, but, but I mean, PDF is [01:00:12] Brett: yes, absolutely. [01:00:14] Christina: but, but [01:00:15] Jeff: I’m like, fuck, I got to download pages. I got like, it’s just like, [01:00:18] Brett: Yeah, I would never send a pages file, but anyone who sends me a doc X file is getting opened and pages, and it’s getting exported to doc X and I, you can’t, you, [01:00:30] Christina: do you lose [01:00:33] Brett: but I I’m grateful every time, every time someone sends me a PDF, I, I thank them sometimes out loud, but usually silently thank them. [01:00:42] Christina: Yeah, my follow-up tweet was honestly, if you can’t be bothered with the dot Docker dot doc X, send me a PDF or even a freaking Google, Google docs link, at least then I can export that to a format that will be usable. Um, and, and look, I agree with you. I think PDF is the best thing. And like me personally, I would rather have a markdown file. [01:00:58] Right. Or even [01:01:00] latex or something like, like that would be, or pan doc, like, that’d be better. [01:01:02] Brett: at, at work right now, I have the pleasure of most of the things that require group edits being done in markdown through GitHub. And that is so nice. [01:01:14] Christina: That is really, really, really great. I, um, that that’s, I I’m jealous of that because I obviously have to use word for a lot of things and I don’t hate word. I’ve always liked word better than, um, Uh, Google docs, always. Um, and, uh, you know, pages, uh, I hear from people that like, when you, you know, export as PDF like that, the printing, like, however, the kerning stuff is better than other things. [01:01:37] I believe that, but, but pages is one of those things. It’s like, okay, you might have some pretty templates, but literally if I get a dot pages file from someone I’m like, I’m like, what, what am I doing with this? And I use a Mac 99.9% of the time. But like you said, I don’t want to download and deal with pages. [01:01:54] Like I don’t want to, [01:01:56] Jeff: what problem did pages solve? I don’t, I have no idea. [01:02:00] What hole, what like niche. [01:02:02] Christina: Exactly. Well, it gave them a new Claris works, I guess, like, honestly, [01:02:06] Brett: God compared to word, I love pages. I don’t understand the pages hate here. [01:02:12] Jeff: I mean I don’t know, I’ve just, haven’t had it, but I’m [01:02:14] Christina: saying, yeah, I’d never had a reason for it. I also feel like collaborating with people which, you know, uh, apple pretends that they can do that, but they really can’t like if you ever have to collaborate with someone in a word processor, obviously Google docs is going to be fastest and, and in some ways like better, but at least you can add comments and you can do other stuff. [01:02:33] Um, uh, track changes and whatnot and word like pages is bullshit at all that like, it just is like, I would never want to work. I would never want to do a multi edit stuff with someone and pages [01:02:44] Brett: Like simultaneous edits [01:02:46] Christina: or even passing back and forth. I would never want to do that. [01:02:49] Brett: I would much rather share a file with iCloud. See someone’s changes happen with change history instead of emailing a doc X file back and forth and [01:03:00] expecting change tracking. [01:03:02] Christina: I don’t know. I mean, I think if with office 365 and I guess I’m like spoiled in this case, People will have the document open multiple places, whether it’s in the browser or I almost always use the native app and I can literally see the edits as they’re happening. And I can also see [01:03:16] Brett: I should, I should clarify that I’ve made every not to use word for the like 10 [01:03:21] years. [01:03:23] Jeff: Like, I, I don’t, I never go straight into a word processor, but obviously like when you’re working with people, you get word files all the time or you need to work in word files. And like, honestly, like the last time I opened word to have to start from scratch from scratch, I was like, let’s just got pretty awesome. [01:03:39] And like, I, I haven’t had the experience of like, I’ve been spending 30 fucking minutes trying to make these separate lines. [01:03:47] Christina: Right, right. Yeah. That’s exactly kind of where I’m at, right? Like, like, like, like I think we can all agree. Keynote is the best. Um, although, although we’ve talked about how, how, um, PowerPoint has gotten better, but keynote is the best, [01:04:00] uh, numbers makes pretty charts and it’s fine. [01:04:02] I think if you just want a form entry thing, but my God. [01:04:05] Brett: for someone who doesn’t know shit about spreadsheets, works great for me, but like, I wouldn’t missing. what’s [01:04:13] Christina: for, basic stuff, that’s fine. But, but like, that’s one of those things where like anybody who does any sort of big data thing, like you are going to be using Excel that you don’t have an option. Um, eh, like, like Google sheets is an embarrassment of a product. [01:04:26] Um, like, you know, like it it’s, it’s, it’s not even like in the same like realm, like Excel is good, but like, like numbers, um, is fine for basic stuff. Um, but I think even numbers like enthusiastic would know better than sending someone a numbers file, um, pages though. I’m just like, I’m like, what the hell? [01:04:45] But, but Libra office, I will ruin the formatting for everything. Like [01:04:49] Jeff: no matter [01:04:49] Brett: Like that that’s I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. Who’s sending LIBOR office. [01:04:55] Christina: Lennox [01:04:55] Jeff: people I [01:04:56] was [01:04:56] going [01:04:56] Brett: say it’s a much of like gray [01:04:58] Jeff: friend. [01:05:00] [01:05:00] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of where, where that came from was, was that. [01:05:05] Brett: yeah. [01:05:06] DOTBOT [01:05:06] Jeff: this is a non-sequitur kind of, but I realized there was something important. I wanted to mention in my, I imagine when I was describing the clean install, there are people out there who, first of all, that just hurts their head because it’s like saying, I don’t know what I like to go shower in the snow. [01:05:22] Um, but like I did find a way to make the whole process less painful while still allowing me to do it, which has dot files. And so for it to anybody who was shouting dot files, you psychopath, uh, dot files have, have come to the rescue and now I can clean install all I want. And I’m back in running [01:05:42] Brett: I want to talk, I want to talk about dat files a little bit. you also use mock-up? [01:05:49] Yeah. [01:05:49] Jeff: dot files with DAPA and then I, I have not done anything because mock-up will like sync your stuff in Dropbox, right? Yeah. And I, I want to do that, but I just haven’t gotten. [01:05:58] Brett: Yeah. So I [01:06:00] will, I will say this with like Mack up is great because all of your like preference files, all of your, um, I don’t even remember what all it sinks, but like basically it just, doesn’t automatic job of sinking everything that is, uh, related to preferences on any app on your system. But if you mix it with.bot and you mix it with anything in your like, uh, local dot config or dot local folders, you will, you will, it will bite you. [01:06:34] Jeff: right Yeah. [01:06:35] Christina: I, I, and I’ve run into that and I think that’s why I haven’t used mock-up in a while. Cause mock-up is great. Like you said, for backing up all the preferences stuff, I wish there was a way to kind of get those things to work more better lately. Like better together, like where. [01:06:47] Brett: like after the last time, it bit me, I’m a lot more careful about what I think using.bot. Like I made the mistake of my dot local file. I had specific [01:07:00] files within the folder, SIM linked, uh, via.bot, completely forgetting that the dot local folder itself was actually a SIM like from Dropbox. And that was where bit myself, [01:07:15] I [01:07:15] if you’re, if you’re not stupid enough to do that, uh, either solution is amazing together they could probably be great. [01:07:26] Jeff: version, which I’m not exactly a purist, but it’s like, so I sync my dot files with get hub, like so many people. Um, but if I’m doing that, all that work and sinking, all that stuff, get hub, then moving to anything that interfaces with Dropbox just feels like so strange. Like I’ve just basically taken this nice efficient thing and added this sort of somewhat unknowable ecosystem, right? [01:07:50] Like to the mix a little bit. [01:07:52] Brett: I, uh, for four people, I think we’ve actually talked about dot, on the show before. Cause I did a. [01:07:58] dot [01:07:58] Jeff: you about dot bought on [01:08:00] systematic and Patrick. McDonald’s amazing. Uh, you to me or Udemy, uh, tutorial. [01:08:06] Brett: Yeah. Okay. I’m going to find me a link to the tutorial I linked dot bought for anyone who is new to this.bot, lets you create all of your configuration files for like command line utilities and uh, do, is it, do you have dot files for anything? That’s not a You should let. [01:08:26] Jeff: No, I don’t think [01:08:27] Brett: Yeah. so. [01:08:28] So, it’s all of [01:08:29] Jeff: have. [01:08:30] Brett: like dot RC files in your, in your user directory, you move them into, uh, a directory that you can sync via, get hub or your own private gets server on your Synology like I do. And then it’s an automated way to SIM link those back to your home directory in one step. So when you’re on a new computer, you just, you, you set up get, and you set up SSH and you pull down your dot files, directory, you run the script and all of your [01:09:00] preferences are automatically there. [01:09:01] And it’s perfect for starting new systems. You can even use it for like, if you SSH into hosts and you want to be able to set up your environment and one step it’s awesome Mac up on the other hand, SIM links basically. Files from your user library preferences into Dropbox so that when you run it on a new machine and you have Dropbox sinked already, all of your preferences sync up together, they make a perfect way to be able to do a clean install. [01:09:34] Like Jeff says, without the like year it takes to get your system back the way it [01:09:40] of work [01:09:40] Jeff: Yes. Yeah. And like, I’ll just, I can get for anybody. Who’s kind of interested in this, but it’s still a little confused. I’ll give a really simple example. First thing I do when I do a clean install is I make sure that all my highlights in my whole system are orange and I, so I go into system preferences and you know, you go to the track pad, you go wherever else. [01:09:57] Right? Like you can, you can do all [01:10:00] that stuff with configure config files that are, that are part of your whole dot files setup. So like the first 20 minutes I usually spend on my Mac after a clean install are. Kind of dot files or.bot ecosystem now. [01:10:15] Brett: I spend the first 20 minutes trying to use my computer. And I’m taking note of all the things that are clearly missing that I can’t live without like, last week sponsor, text expander, and one password and all these things. I forget. Although brew, have you ever done a brew? [01:10:32] Jeff: Brew bundle is amazing. It’s so [01:10:35] Brett: And if you install your Mac apps, wherever possible, via cask, like a brew cask brew bundle and your Mac app store stuff to brew, bundle can in one, in one command stall most of your apps you again. [01:10:52] for [01:10:52] Jeff: line interface for the Mac app store. [01:10:56] Christina: Yeah. And, and you have to, obviously, you know, is [01:11:00] like probably the first thing I installed, like on a new machine. Yeah. [01:11:04] Yeah, that’s one of the first things. And so [01:11:07] Jeff: with brew bundle, like it’s like you, you basically create something called a brew file. It creates it. And it lists all of the things that you, um, have installed via Homebrew and kind of organizes them. But there’s like a verbose version that will basically give a little, like one line synopsis of each app that I find like incredibly helpful. [01:11:27] And, [01:11:28] Brett: Especially going to go in and manually edit the brew file. Yeah. [01:11:32] Jeff: because I never know if I’m, if a clean install is going to hit and I’m not always quite right in the head when it is, I’m a little manic. The best thing I did ever was create an alias called rebundle, which basically just creates that like verbose brew file pretty constantly so that I will always know that whatever I had created, you know, via like brew bundle is going to be able to just be like instantly downloaded when I clean install. [01:11:59] Christina: That’s so [01:12:00] interesting. Well, it’s funny. Cause I was, I was thinking about this and actually I think it’s what became brew bundle, but do you guys remember boxing? No. Boxing was like a thing that GitHub had that was basically like, it was, they’d kind of created their own, you know, kind of, you know, infrastructure’s code thing for setting up new machines and redoing stuff. [01:12:15] And then that basically they ended up deprecating it and basically building that into, into, into, um, um, the group bundle. Oh, [01:12:22] Jeff: interesting. Huh? I think I’m right about this. I mean, there’s a lot of people that don’t like package managers, right. For security reasons, whatever, but like not whatever, but a Homebrew had a problem. [01:12:33] I think a year ago, two years ago, there were a handful of packages that, that made it onto the system that’s that were written enough, like other popular packages that people were accidentally going for them. And so that kind of security aspect of having a brew file, which lists everything and tells your new system just download that is like, you know, it’s all typed. [01:12:53] Right. Right. [01:12:55] Christina: Well, that’s exactly it. Right. And, and, and, um, yeah. And, and like, NPM has been going through [01:13:00] some of these challenges to speak in a package managers, [01:13:02] Brett: just got my notification that I still haven’t set up to FAA on NPM. [01:13:07] Christina: yeah. Yeah. They’re, they’re going to make everybody do it, which is good. Um, because you know, there’s like a. [01:13:12] Brett: Why haven’t I done [01:13:14] Christina: There’ve been kerfuffles, there’ve been things that have been happening, you know, within that. But, but yeah, I mean, uh, I, I understand the, the security, I guess, questions about package managers. I’m also one of those people who’s like, you will take a package manager from my cold dead hands. [01:13:27] Like, you know what I mean? I’m like, I understand what the risks can be. And it may in fact bite me in the ass some day. Having said that like every security is all about risk mitigation and, and, and, and risk assessment. And for me, I’m like, I actually think it’s a much higher like, assessment that I will do something dumb if I don’t have those things then than if I, that if I do. [01:13:48] But yeah, that’s a great point with the, with the, um, um, the, you know, um, um, bundle files is like, yeah, like you can have everything typed out and you’re not having to worry about, like, it might [01:14:00] accidentally have the, have the wrong thing. [01:14:02] Jeff: Yeah. Hello package you too. I also feel like for anybody wanting to dip their toe in the world of package managers and their Mac users, Homebrew is such, and that was my introduction really. [01:14:14] Um, and, and I just, it’s, it’s an amazing new life once you, you know, [01:14:20] Christina: turn that it really is. I think I was using, I was using Mac force and I was using Fink before. Um, like when I, when I seem like a hardcore Mac user, I was like, I was, you know, there, there, there was pink. And then there was like Mac ports and there was Darwin ports and then I think they merged or something. [01:14:35] And then, and then I think, think actually became part of Mac ports if I recall correctly, but I don’t remember the rationale now. And, um, and then brew came out and brew was just like a revelation. And it was just like, it was like, okay, this is better. Right. Like, it was just really, really, uh, [01:14:49] Brett: there was one other one that I use instead of ports. I can’t remember. [01:14:54] Jeff: was it think, cause that’s what I did. [01:14:56] Brett: I [01:14:56] like it. It doesn’t sound right to me. Like I remember the existence of Frank [01:15:00] and I remember starting with Mac ports, but finding something else, but you’re right. Once home brew came along, there was no reason for of that other stuff to exist. [01:15:11] Christina: And apparently the think project is still around, so good for good for them. Um, I think that what I confused was that the knock ports and Darwin ports, I think [01:15:21] Jeff: merged, [01:15:24] Christina: um, yeah. Uh, but yeah, there might’ve been something else, but yeah. But when the homework came out, I was just like, yeah, this is, this is better. [01:15:30] And I’m working on being kind of like reticent at first. I was like, but I already have Mac board. So what do I need this for? And then, oh, and I was like, oh no, this is actually, yeah, [01:15:39] Brett: Well, and it’s so universe, like when I write an article and I talk about a tool like FC. To be able to just say and assume that it will work for like the majority of people I can just say to get this brew, install, FCF. And, and if I need to, I can link to home brews. So people, because you can install it [01:16:00] with one command and it’s just this universal Wade. [01:16:03] Like I don’t have to tell people, go to this GitHub, download this, make this executable, install this. It’s just, I can just be like, yeah, here, brew, install, FCF. And you’re good. [01:16:14] Jeff: Yeah. [01:16:14] Yeah. [01:16:15] Christina: Um, I, I have to say like, I, I was impressed with them. Uh, you know, I, when I use windows and I do have to say like that there is now a first party windows package manager, when get, which is very similar in a lot of ways, um, to Homebrew and, and it’s, it’s cool because it’s not only tied to the Microsoft store. [01:16:34] Um, you can have other things are packaged for it too, but basically you can use it completely as a CLI front-end to the Microsoft store, which is really nice. Oh, that’s awesome. Um, so, so like it’s, it’s actually like the, um, You know, when get is actually one of my favorite things and it’s free and open source, but they clearly took a lot of inspiration from, um, you know, uh, Homebrew and, and, uh, and you know, Linux brew, or I guess they merged. [01:16:57] So I guess it’s just Humber, but you know, a lot of, a lot of, uh, [01:17:00] things meant there was also, um, chocolatey and scoop. There were some other package managers for, um, windows beforehand, but it’s, uh, I do have to say, like, I appreciate that that is actually now an actual official, like supported project for the operating system. [01:17:16] Um, you know, whereas Homebrew, like obviously apple works with them, but like that’s, that’s no sponsored by GitHub and, um, you know, like they have close relationships with apple, but it’s, you know, they’re obviously if apple makes fundamental changes to stuff like, you know, they have to kind of scurry and work around it, you know? [01:17:38] Brett: Speaking of package managers. I, uh, so I use. The shell fit shell. Um, and you’re familiar with all my Z shell [01:17:48] Jeff: Yes. [01:17:49] Christina: Yes. Oh my gosh. I think it’s [01:17:50] Brett: or [01:17:51] Oh my God. Um, I’m not, I’m not as, I’m not as guy. Anyway, I use fish and there’s a, uh, [01:18:00] there’s an, oh my fish package manager. Um, there’s also a fish, there’s one called Fisher that you basically have to give it like a GitHub URL. [01:18:09] It, it will install from a good hub URL, but OMF on my fish keeps a central package repository. So you can search for packages, just like with brew. So I had this, I had this tool called fuzzy CD that I made for fish that combined. Uh, jump auto, jump FISD and FCF CD command. So you can pretty just type CD anything. [01:18:34] And if it’s a like junk uses, it’s like bash marks, I’m sure there’s an equivalent for Zetia. Um, so you can like bookmark directories get back to them with just like jump and then the bookmark name. So I incorporated that. So if your first argument to CD is any, if it fuzzy mattress, any existing bookmark, it will jump to that. [01:18:55] And then all following arguments are fuzzy searched [01:19:00] up to two levels, deep, uh, sub-directory names. So I can type CD D O V 2 6 8. And that will jump me to my, uh, desktop folder podcasts folder, overtired folder, episode 2 68. And. And it’s all built in and it still works as CD. If you type in an actual path name, it’ll just CD to that. [01:19:26] And if you type CD dot.dot that moves up to directories dot, dot, dot, dot, and then up, like it’s all this just the CD commits. So anyway, I built that night, publish it for Fisher, but over the last weekend, I made my first on my fish package. And, um, I’m linking it in the show notes. [01:19:47] If, if you use vision, this sounds intriguing, check it out. Uh, the [01:19:51] Christina: I don’t use fish, but like you keep making me like excited to want to use it. My big thing is, and we’ve talked about those before, but I want to ask again, like, [01:20:00] how do you deal with the fact that so many things and so many scripts that are out there are, you know, for basher or Zetia, [01:20:06] Brett: you can run them like you. If it has a hash bang of bachelor Z show, it’ll still execute it with that shell. So all of my bass work. don’t have to think twice about. [01:20:18] just [01:20:19] Christina: sorry. No, that was going to say so it’ll still execute in, in NZ shell or bash as long as it’s got that. Got the bang, [01:20:26] Brett: It’s like as a sub show. I mean, that’s when you execute a Z shell script in Z show, it’s still executing within a subs shell. So it’s exact same thing. [01:20:36] the [01:20:37] Jeff: trust, I trust you so much. Um, tell me, tell me why to go and play and have fun with fish. All my. [01:20:46] Brett: The, for me, the way, just the feel of using on the command line, where, and, and Zetia is actually cut up with a lot of this. But if I start typing a command, the letters are red until a [01:21:00] command that’s valid. So if I type, if I type, um, DOI, uh, that’s red, but as soon as I type D O I N G it turns green, and now it autogenerates completions for any app, any program on your system that has a man page it’ll auto generate tab completions for it. [01:21:23] Uh, it’s really easy to add your own completions and, uh, as you start typing. So if I’m in a folder that I have been in before, so I typed CDD over. And I go to my overtired folder. If I type CD, it will start, it will, auto-complete in like faded out texts. The last, last time I executed that command in that directory. [01:21:48] So whatever I’m most often executing that directory will auto complete, can hit the right key to confirm it, or just start typing something new. And it’ll, auto-complete based on history, [01:22:00] like stuff like that. Like there there’s a bunch of cool stuff about it, but that’s once I started doing that, I missed those features. [01:22:08] Anytime I switched back to bash, is what I used previously. [01:22:13] Jeff: Nice. Um, I, you just reminded me of something that I think is really important. This is my small soap box. Um, despite the fact that, you know, like I’m, I’m used to man, and it means manual my first like unit Unix interaction, I was probably like seven in my mom’s like room-sized computer at her work, but like, I fucking hate the term man page. [01:22:36] And so I wrote an alias that I just say show and it means, man, so that I’m not ever just like, dude, man, man, it’s like, fuck this, I’m tired of this. [01:22:47] Brett: my, my alias is help. H a L P. [01:22:51] Jeff: Oh, I like that. [01:22:52] Christina: I actually, actually, I think that’s probably my help. I like that. [01:22:55] Brett: w well, so help, help is not just an alias. It actually [01:23:00] first checks with man and men dash K to see if it’s a valid man page. If it isn’t, it resorts to the actual help command. And if that fails, it checks with, uh, I think I used to have it checked with, uh, TLDR or bro. Um, now it uses, uh, how do I, uh, to get like, whatever reference it can find. [01:23:24] So basically it’s my all purpose, help command, help. [01:23:27] Jeff: The thing I love so much about what you do, but as you are the ultimate, yes. And [01:23:32] Brett: Yeah. [01:23:33] Jeff: 100%. [01:23:34] Brett: it’s so here. Okay. So tangential not even related, but what I’ve realized working with Fletcher and be ultra is like this total difference in communication styles, where I’ll pitch an idea, which is like a sensibly that’s my job is to be the, like, here’s a cool thing we could do in his job is to like vet my crazy ideas. [01:23:57] But the way he responds is always [01:24:00] no, and here’s why it won’t work. And like, I know like Ella and I figured out how to communicate. I need everything couched. Like when, if I’m low energy, I need everything couched in a compliment. I need the responses. That’s a great idea, but I think we might run into problems with this, and then I’m in brainstorming mode, then I’m in problem solving mode. [01:24:22] But when the response is immediately a negative, all I hear is I hate your idea. No, we’re not even going to talk about this. And I stopped by Um, [01:24:33] shut down [01:24:38] I’m a yes. And guy, I, I need the, I need people to take my idea and sure. It might not work out, but at least like, acknowledge that it’s a cool idea. And the only reason you’re finding problems with it is because you think it could be better, which is how Fletcher explained to me, what I mean is actually, this could be cool, but it needs refinement. [01:24:58] And yeah, I [01:25:00] just like, I have this when I’m high energy, I can translate it. But when I’m like, if I’ve been manic for five days and I’m like having these, all these ideas, but I don’t have the energy to translate the way other people talk. And when Ellis high energy, she translates for me and like speaks to me the way I need to hear it. [01:25:19] But when we’re both low energy and we can’t translate on either end that’s when ugly. [01:25:26] things get [01:25:27] Christina: totally. Um, I was just curious, uh, th this is also tangental, but we were talking about configuration stuff earlier. Did you both see a it’s part of a one password eight, so which I’m not running yet, but did you see that, that the, [01:25:39] Jeff: the [01:25:40] Brett: yeah. actually sent that to me yesterday. [01:25:42] Jeff: Oh [01:25:44] Brett: I haven’t tried it. I’m not [01:25:45] Jeff: you [01:25:45] Brett: the [01:25:45] Jeff: it? [01:25:47] Brett: I was curious, but I immediately said you need to install the beta. And I went to install the beta and it said, if you want a stable experience me think really don’t want to fuck this up right now. [01:25:57] Christina: yeah, so I’m not using it on, on, [01:26:00] on like my main machines, but because I am running one password eight on windows, I did go ahead and try it on that. And it was very cool. [01:26:07] Jeff: That’s so exciting. [01:26:10] Christina: And then it got me excited because that has been like one of like the, my, my frustrations is like, you know, trying to sync, you know, your SSH credentials, like together and whatnot and across machines and whatnot. [01:26:20] And I realized, and it might not be you, you can quibble about like the, the security practices, this or that. But like, I keep this stuff in, in one password anyway. So I would much rather be using one password as my SSH agent than, uh, then you know, something else. Is it for, for, for listeners? Um, one password has a new feature in their beta where basically they’ve created like, uh, their own, like, as I say, it’s H like replacement tool, like for, for the agent or key chain or whatever, so that it will basically let you access your various, you know, machines and [01:26:56] Brett: So, so it it track of your, your keys, like.[01:27:00] [01:27:00] So I don’t use one. I don’t use passwords with SSH at all. Like I always generate a key and turn off password, uh, authentication. Like the only way you get into one of my SSH accounts is with a key and I have my keys. I’ve never lost a key. Like I, I sync them via a private, um, uh, Synology get repo and I’ve, I’ve never lost one, but I’d be curious about maybe more secure possibilities. [01:27:33] Christina: Yeah. I mean, that’s the thing is that you, you, it also has like a, a generate key, like features, so you can like generate keys. You can also import them. Um, uh, and, um, you know, basically, uh it’ll then, you know, like you like kind of, you know, share, you know, the public key, if you want to do that, um, it supports a bunch of different types. [01:27:52] It’ll also do auto-filling of your public keys, like when you’re on, like, you know, your, like when you’re on get hub or something, which is really nice,[01:28:00] [01:28:00] like, [01:28:00] Brett: it Can it install keys on servers for you? [01:28:03] Jeff: Yeah. [01:28:05] Brett: Nice. [01:28:05] Christina: Uh, so, so I’m, I mean, I’m pretty sure. So, yeah, so I mean, basically what it’s doing is it’s replacing like the, the SSH agent. [01:28:12] Um, uh, and, um, if, if you did want to like, do other stuff, like they have more advanced configuration models and whatnot, um, if you didn’t want to, uh, completely like rely on, on their thing, but it’s basically like a replacement for us as agent it’s. I don’t know. I think this is something I’ve been like wanting for a long time, have wanted an easier way of managing my SSH keys and because I don’t do what you do Brett. [01:28:38] So, so if you already have a system in place or like a YubiKey or something, this might not be a [01:28:43] Brett: Yeah, but I’m [01:28:44] Christina: people like me, [01:28:45] Brett: I’m also like all in, the one password [01:28:48] Jeff: at with it [01:28:49] Brett: So I have no qualms with, uh, with making this one password controlled thing [01:28:56] Jeff: Yeah. [01:28:56] Christina: I also just really liked the idea of being able to generate a [01:29:00] key directly in one password. [01:29:01] Brett: without going the command line. [01:29:03] Christina: Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, but you could do it from the CLI too. I assume so. But like, what I mean is like I could, you know, create it for a service or something and then I don’t have to worry about then having to copy it into one password. [01:29:13] So when I want to access that service again, I have, you know what I mean? [01:29:16] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. So, so what’s your, what’s your take on, should I try out the one password eight beta on my main machine or not? [01:29:26] Christina: I haven’t done it yet. Like I said, I only enabled this on the one password eight that is already running on windows. So I’ve, I haven’t been able to actually appreciate the full breadth of what this feature is. I’m getting close to being there on my main machine, but I’m not there yet. I’m with you. I’m kind of like, I’m, I’m kinda like I’m just waiting, you know, like I’m not even mad about the electron thing anymore. [01:29:47] It like, look the web one. This is the fact that we’ve had this discussion. I just want like, like you, I want the stability, so I’m not quite there yet, but I’m like, this is a feature where I’m like, [01:30:00] okay, this, you know, it might be one of those things. Like if I were going to be doing a clean install, which I actually haven’t thinking about, even though this machine is not old, but, but I have been thinking about, but if I were going to be setting up a brand new machine, like tomorrow, I would probably install the beta I’m at that’s where I’m at. [01:30:19] Brett: I, uh, I’m seriously considering it, but I saw something. Let’s see if I followed the beta link, they talk about how much they love Mac. And, uh, I guess they released the beta for windows first. So they’re excited to do it for Mac and they don’t talk at all about how left behind like cocoa. [01:30:44] they [01:30:44] love, they love max. [01:30:46] So here’s an electronic app, but I want to try it. I do. I just don’t want to it and then realize I can’t go back. If it’s unsafe. [01:30:53] Christina: mean, exactly. Right. And so with windows and I don’t even think it’s beta anymore. I think that it is just like, actually like the version that it is there. [01:31:00] So, you know, and, and the, the native windows app was fine. I think that the electron app is better. I mean, it was interesting to read their teams kind of like explanation of why they had to go electron that they’d tried at kit first and that it, it didn’t do what it needed them to do. [01:31:15] And to me, like that is a failure on Apple’s part. Right. Like [01:31:19] Brett: How would electron have more access to the kind of stuff a security app would want to do then the native API, SDK and API APIs? [01:31:28] Jeff: I don’t [01:31:29] Christina: remember now, but there were some things with applicate cause cause you app UI kit aren’t done yet. [01:31:34] Brett: Yeah. [01:31:35] Christina: So, um, I, um, let me find the link. Um, But there was, there was like a whole thread lengthy. They, they, um, they, they talked about it. They were pretty transparent about it. And, and to me, it, it was kind of like a, um, I think it was a couple of things. [01:31:56] I think one, it was that they don’t want to have [01:32:00] different code bases if they can help it, because it is difficult for them to have to maintain, you know, the same, like the backend would be one thing, but they, they were fine with, I guess maybe doing like, like native frontends and whatnot. But I think that the age of brands would place where the performance and some of the other things, they just couldn’t achieve what they wanted to do, um, with, uh, with app kit. [01:32:20] Um, so I mean, especially since so much of what they do now is, uh, a web app, right? Like so much of this as a service, it’s not. A local thing anymore. So I can, I can understand the constraints they have. And of course there, you’re always going to have people who are like, well, you have all this money you can’t, you know, um, dedicated to, to having like a native thing. [01:32:40] And it’s like, well, if the tooling isn’t there and if the performance is not going to be the best and if your backend, because at this point it is a web service and it’s not a local app anymore. Like I understand that they’re kind of, you know, between a rock and a hard place, especially if they don’t want the, the features and the experience is to, to, you know, like [01:33:00] diverge. [01:33:01] Brett: So I know, I know this has gotten super nerdy and I know we’ve gone really long, but can I tell you about one other cool thing? I did. [01:33:08] Jeff: You absolutely can Yes you can [01:33:10] Brett: You guys are familiar with my obsession with keyboard shortcuts, correct. [01:33:14] Jeff: Yes [01:33:15] Brett: Um, and have either of you ever seen my default key bindings dot Dick file? [01:33:20] Jeff: yes [01:33:21] Brett: It’s it’s a [01:33:22] Jeff: Not in a long time. [01:33:24] Brett: You haven’t my in a long time. [01:33:27] seen Dick [01:33:28] So, if you’re not familiar, , you can change. You can add and modify keyboard shortcuts using a P list file in a default key bindings folder in your, in your home folder. And it affects everywhere that the keyboard can type it affects it. So it’s adding universal shortcut. So I got crazy with that. I made a key bindings file that probably has maybe 80 different key bindings, more than you’ll ever need, but I set it up so that I just add a [01:34:00] comment before each key binding definition. [01:34:02] And then it’s self-documenting and cannot put like a markdown table of all the and they [01:34:11] what do [01:34:12] I, I used to use it with wrote an app called cheaters. [01:34:17] Jeff: However, cheaters. [01:34:18] Yeah, [01:34:18] Brett: was like cheat sheets. It had full keyboard navigation and it worked well when fluid could make a menu bar, a little apps, but fluid is kind of dead and nothing has replaced the features that cheaters needs to So I’ve been using dash a lot. [01:34:37] And dash has, there’s a gem called cheat set that you can feed, uh, R oh, a formatted, a Ruby file. And it’ll generate a cheat sheet for dash. So I modified myself documenting system per the key bindings to output a dash cheat sheet. And I published the script because nobody should be using [01:35:00] my entire key bindings file, which means that any cheat sheet I made for it would just contain a lot of shit you don’t need. [01:35:06] So now you can edit the key binding file, just remove all the stuff you don’t need, change the shortcuts anywhere you want. Then run the script and you’ll get a dash cheat sheet of your personal key binding settings. And you can update it any time. Anytime you make a change, you just run the script and it’s done. [01:35:26] And it’s, it’s perfect because I have so many keyboard shortcuts that I will, if I don’t use something often enough, forget what I said it to. [01:35:36] And with like, you know, I can just pop up dash type in it’s fully searchable type in what I wanted. You get the key binding and then I’ll remember it. And if I continue to use it, then it’s muscle memory. [01:35:48] But the cheat sheet is important. If you’re as nuts about keyboard shortcuts as I am. [01:35:54] Jeff: Yes. Comma and [01:35:58] Christina: comma and the Bret TURPs, a [01:36:00] story that is actually going, that should be the title of your book, [01:36:03] Jeff: honestly. [01:36:03] Brett: That’s the title of the episode [01:36:05] for sure [01:36:06] Jeff: Oh, [01:36:06] Christina: 100% 100% [01:36:09] Brett: Let me, let me add that to my notes. Actually, I’m going to spell out comma. Is that okay? Yes. Comma and the Brett Terpstra story. [01:36:22] Christina: It reminds me of the, the best, um, um, like, uh, I guess slogan I’ve ever come up for, for, for a company. So my friend, um, Pershant works at a time-based, which is a, uh, um, um, time series, database, uh, uh, company. And, um, they, um, um, or not, not, uh, not timescale, uh, um, are they timescale? Yeah, timescale. Sorry. Um, and, uh, but, but they use time series databases. [01:36:49] Timescales is a company. Anyway, the, the slogan, I, I told them that they could use, they haven’t, but that I hope they do some day was that their, their slogan should be no comma SQL. [01:36:58] Jeff: That’s [01:37:00] [01:37:01] Brett: Steve comma from college. Oh, a callback to a previous episode. All right, we’ve gone. I think, I think we’re at an [01:37:10] Jeff: Bruce [01:37:11] Brett: like hour and 40 [01:37:12] and didn’t have, we didn’t have any clean break point. This all getting published as one episode. [01:37:17] Christina: I love it. [01:37:18] Brett: is [01:37:18] Christina: it’s a boat. It’s a, it’s a happy like bonus thing for, for, for the listeners. You can just, you can enjoy like a 25 minute discussion about the real world, but if you’re not into that, you just skip into the nerdy stuff. Maybe we should just make that clear in the show notes where people like, if you don’t want to hear a 25 minute like, discussion about the real world, we do actually talk about, um, nerd stuff, too. [01:37:40] Jeff: Awesome. [01:37:41] Brett: uh, I will, I will add markers. So in de script, if you add markers in while you’re editing, it will automatically turn those into you export, which is Yeah, it is. Um, I really don’t know why [01:38:00] they don’t sponsor us. I have actually pitched it to them and they’re like, yeah, we’ll think about it. [01:38:07] And then never hear from them again. [01:38:11] Anyway. Hey you guys, thanks for a marathon recording today. People aren’t even, and you know, they listened to this over two weeks. They’re not aware of kind of effort we put episodes. [01:38:26] I even have the show notes for next week already done, but now I have to go and publish the first half of this. Uh, I have to go publish last week’s episode here at the end of episode. [01:38:39] There’s [01:38:40] Christina: the sausage is made folks. This is how the sausage is made. Yep, [01:38:43] Brett: I love you guys. [01:38:45] Jeff: man. Thank you so much. It’s been a real pleasure talking with you guys. [01:38:48] Brett: It’s always a [01:38:49] Jeff: you. [01:38:50] Christina: Thanks for being on with us, Jeff. This has been really fun. [01:38:52] Jeff: My pleasure. [01:38:54] Brett: And there you have it two weeks with Jeff Severns Gunzel tune in next time [01:39:00] you know, it’ll be Um, Hey [01:39:03] Christina: same overtired place, same overtired channel [01:39:04] Brett: get some sleep. [01:39:06] Christina: and get some sleep. [01:39:07] Jeff: Get some sleep by.

Jeff Severns Guntzel joins the ADHD party to discuss the 90s, and more nerding out than is probably healthy in an hour. Which is why we split it into two. Stay tuned next week for the thrilling conclusion. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe—from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Stop paying crazy wireless bills and switch to Mint Mobile. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to mintmobile.com/overtired. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Chuck Klosterman The Nineties NYT Chuck Klosterman Rewinds to ‘The Nineties’ Reality Bites 1991 album releases Pam and Tommy Prosthetics, Animatronics, CGI and Jason Mantzoukas: How ‘Pam & Tommy’ Made a Penis Talk and Shimmy Pam and Tommy: The Untold Story of the World’s Most Infamous Sex Tape New York Times book review that mentions Red Shoe Diaries Sebastian Bach Sebastian Bach t-shirt controversy Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 273 [00:00:00] Brett: So welcome to over tired. We are, um, recording in the wake of a minor tragedy. Uh, last Sunday we sat down for two and a half hours. [00:00:17] We got, we got like an hour into it and we’re like, oh hell, let’s just keep going. Let’s record two episodes at once. And we finished after two and a half hours and I went and got a snack and I came back and I started the editing process. And I did a thing where I moved the files out of the audio hijack folders. [00:00:37] And safely had them in my edit folder. And then in audio hijack, I clicked a button to delete sessions and instead of moving the sessions to the trash, so it had like a bookmark on them. Instead of moving the session, you said the trash, it just vaporize them. And two and a half hours of audio disappeared. [00:00:57] And I was the only person who had all the tracks and [00:01:00] we lost it and we took a week to recover and we’re back today and we’re going to record another marathon session that will be published in two episodes. And we have a special guest for both of them. So without further ado, I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here with Christina Warren and our special guests. [00:01:19] Jeff Severns Gunzel, how’s it going? You guys. [00:01:22] Jeff: Good. [00:01:24] Christina: Pretty good. Pretty good. Uh, I mean, you know, honestly, I, I was promised a week off, uh, because we, we did so much work, so I’m a little, I’m [00:01:34] Brett: Uh, no, I get, it was devastating. Like I couldn’t, I couldn’t even, I couldn’t even talk. I was so no, it was horrible. Plus I had been manic. I was like on two hours of sleep, it was awful. [00:01:46] Christina: I [00:01:46] was going to say that was, that was a problem. Like, like, um, you had been so tired and so you were, you know, you did a great job, but like I could tell you’re just like trying to keep it together. [00:01:55] Brett: I fell asleep. Like there was a point where I [00:01:58] Jeff: you did fall [00:01:58] Brett: at about two hours and [00:02:00] 15 minutes. [00:02:01] Christina: They were like, We were like red and [00:02:03] he was like, oh yeah, hi. Yeah. But no, but, but, you know, so I felt terrible. [00:02:08] Cause I was like, oh man, like this was like rough for you. And then for, I mean, we’ve all been there. Those things have happened, but it is good. Another good reminder of just like how, how much we hate computers, honestly. Like, [00:02:23] Jeff: you know? [00:02:24] Brett: Well, [00:02:25] Jeff: And also like, [00:02:26] Brett: love, hate. [00:02:27] Jeff: the thing, the thing I felt bad about is it Brett, when you kind of gave me a sense of how hard you were taking it. [00:02:33] I was like, man, that conversation was great for my mental health. So I’m just glad it happened. [00:02:40] Brett: Yeah, we’re basically a therapy session. We’re a free, a free therapy session. I guess we get paid. You didn’t get paid. [00:02:49] Jeff: That’s all right. I [00:02:50] Brett: Actually. None of us got paid for that. [00:02:51] Jeff: I was going to say none of it last week. [00:02:56] Mental Health Corner the First [00:02:56] Brett: So w w the mental health corner last week, I will, [00:03:00] I will recap because I’m still in kind of the same position. Um, I, I had, I had made these big plans to switch from Focalin to Vyvanse because I had to get these bipolar mood swings under control. Like I used to have a, uh, a manic episode, like once a year and for the last year or so, I’ve been having them almost monthly and I can’t keep doing it. [00:03:26] It’s it’s not productive. And I came to believe that Focalin was the problem. So I think we talked about that. And in an episode that actually got published and I was going to switch to Vyvanse. Uh, it gets to be time for the refill. I call in the prescription and my doctor is on vacation for three weeks and they hand me over to, uh, like a fill in doctor to cover the script, but she refuses to make the switch to Vyvanse because my doctor didn’t leave any notes about it. [00:03:56] So I got another month of Focalin and [00:04:00] immediately started having a manic episode within a week. And it just, it further cemented the fact that I have to switch to Vyvanse. And, um, it’s been a long manic episode. I think like last night was the first night I slept well in since last Friday. So I’m pissed. [00:04:20] I’m looking. I I’m okay. So here’s the thing I realized. Um, and I, I, I’ve kind of known this, but I finally admitted to myself if I were smart, When a manic episode starts, I would stop taking the Focalin, but I really enjoy Focalin. And I extend the manic episode by continuing to take the Focalin and the fact that I can’t not take it if I have, it means I’m addicted to it. [00:04:50] And, uh, so getting rid of it is my only choice. I can’t tell my doctor that I might have like any kind of problem with it, because that would preclude [00:05:00] me being able to get any other stimulants, even though Vyvanse is way safer and can’t be abused. Like I have to, I mean, it’s easy enough to say I need to do it because it triggers bipolar. [00:05:11] Um, but yeah, like. [00:05:13] Christina: yeah. Well, but you can’t be honest in that way. I mean, Right, I mean, like if you had it, I don’t know. Like, I feel like my shrink, like if you’d been with him for 20 years, like I have, it would be different, but, but, you know, um, but it would, it would require such an established relationship for a doctor not to be like, okay, well actually now this is an indicator of something that we cannot prescribe any of this class of drugs for, because you have been honest about. [00:05:45] Brett: I was however, completely honest with Al telling her things that I’ve kind of known for months. Uh, things that I couldn’t be realized, but really like explaining where, where I stand with, like addiction [00:06:00] wise and everything. And we had a heart to heart. She was extremely understanding. [00:06:04] Um, we made some plans to like find a new like therapist and everything. It’s going to be good. It feels good to like, have some secrets in the light, but it’s been a rough couple of days, I guess. [00:06:19] Christina: Yeah, [00:06:21] sorry, go on [00:06:22] Jeff: this thing about, um, sort of diagnoses and, and, and honesty and all of that. Like, there’s a, I’ve really encountered this, this past year in both spheres, both with my, um, psychiatric nurse practitioner. I take, um, sertraline and Vyvanse and, uh, and also then at home and the problem I have. [00:06:43] Is every time I realized how helpful it is to be a little more honest. Um, whereas I might’ve been afraid to be in the past cause I was afraid there’d be repercussions. Like what you said, bro. Like maybe they’d be like, well you told us that focal lens too much. Like cocaine. Well, we don’t want to give you [00:07:00] any stimulant. [00:07:00] Right? Like I’m so kind of like nervous about navigating those waters when I don’t have a relationship with a professional that I think I end up also being just a bad patient because in general I find myself sort of self-censoring and not at all in a manipulative way. Right. But just like that desperate feeling of like, I know what I want and that I actually want to be a partner in this, not just your patient. [00:07:23] Right? Like nobody knows me better than me. [00:07:26] Brett: here’s what I want to find is a therapist, not a psychiatrist, but a therapist who understands neurodivergence who understands ADHD and bipolar, who has also been an addict. Someone, someone who understands like current, uh, like the current understandings of addiction, which have actually just in the last five years have expanded and grown, um, as well as treatment, someone who could do all of that for me, that I could just open up to you because I didn’t have to worry that they were [00:08:00] controlling my, my medication and the things that I need to function and just be brutally honest about like what I feel and what I go through. [00:08:10] And I haven’t found that person yet. And I live in a small town and if I find that person, it will probably be a telehealth kind of [00:08:19] Christina: I was, yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, unfortunately, that might be one of those things, but I mean, this is one of the only positive things I think at all that has happened in the last two years is that it is normalized tele-health um, for a lot of things and, and that’s, I think really opens people up, especially people like you who like live in small towns who don’t have access maybe to a local. [00:08:41] Have, you know, a specialist like, like what you’re looking for, you’re looking for a therapist who has experience with addiction, um, you know, personal stuff, um, which, um, not to say that, like you couldn’t maybe have that in a small town, but like the chances of it being someone who would be covered by your insurance and local to you and taking new patients [00:09:00] and those other things, like, you know, it just becomes smaller and smaller. [00:09:03] Whereas now, and this is also really good, you know, with like how your job situation and stuff has evolved. I mean, meaning that you have, like, you know, your, your insurance situation is a little more robust, although you had good, um, state insurance before, is that, is that you have like a national network, Right. [00:09:19] Like this is like, we have, I’m just going to go on a brief tangent just because healthcare stuff is so fucked up. So at Microsoft, we have a couple of different options for like healthcare providers. And one of them is like a Kaiser, like HMO, which, you know, they offer it and I’m like, why would anyone take this? [00:09:39] Um, and then they have like a blue cross blue shield, like, um, HSA and like a PPO, which is nationwide. And they will give you a certain amount and you have still like a certain deductible. And like the company covers based on what they’ll put it in your HSA account, most of what the deductible would be, but not all of it. [00:09:57] Um, and then there is a [00:10:00] local, um, HSA PPO for what they say is that the Puget sound area, but it’s not really where they will cover even more. All of that and, and kind of everything is covered. The problem with that is that you have to live on the east side of Seattle to really take advantage of the healthcare providers. [00:10:18] And for people who don’t know, Seattle is separated by like, it’s like people that call the area like east side and west side. And, and, and it’s separated by, um, [00:10:26] Brett: Which one’s the good side. [00:10:28] Christina: I mean, I think the west side, cause because that’s where I live. That’s like where the city proper is. Right. So if you were living in the actual city of Seattle, you’re on the west side. [00:10:35] but if you are living in the suburbs where people can afford bigger houses and, and will, Bellevue is actually a quite expensive, but, um, it it’s, you know, like the, kind of like the snobby kind of like area of, kind of the, you know, the, the, um, Sabi urban kind of, but suburban area, you know what I’m talking about, um, like that that’s on, on, on the east side, but like, but Kirkland and, and, and, and, um, uh, [00:11:00] Redmond and Bellevue and, and, you know, um, Samish, these other things are all on the east side. [00:11:04] Brett: like really white neighborhoods. [00:11:06] Christina: Uh, I mean, those names are all Indian, but yes. [00:11:12] Jeff: And, and yes, [00:11:13] Brett: So, so is the town I live in and it is very white. [00:11:16] Christina: I mean, you’re not, you’re not wrong at all. I mean, we’ll, we’ll widen and, and, uh, and Asian, I guess, which is, you know, um, so, uh, but, but in terms of like, you know, Seattle does not have a lot of black people. Um, but the thing is, is it’s like, okay, so you can have this better on paper, healthcare plan, but only if you live on the east side, because if you live on the west side, you can’t go to like the, the hospital system or like the doctors. [00:11:41] They’re like, they’re not part of the system. So it’s like, Anyway, [00:11:46] Jeff: That is a, I’m not really trying to belittle this. That’s a real west side story. Like it’s just like that crazy ass. Like how in the hell is this the thing that means that kind of determines whether you can or can’t Have this particular [00:11:59] Christina: kind of [00:12:00] coverage? [00:12:00] No, exactly, exactly. Well, to me, I’m just frustrated by it. Cause I’m like, I would like this other plan. Um, but I’m not willing to only go to doctors on, you know, the, the, the east side of town. Uh, if I lived there, that’d be one thing, but I don’t. So, you know, anyway, uh, which is sorry, go on. [00:12:17] Brett: Have you guys ever done tele-health therapy? [00:12:20] Christina: Yeah. [00:12:21] Jeff: Yeah. But all of my therapy? for the last three [00:12:24] years. [00:12:24] Yeah, [00:12:25] Brett: setup? How do you get comfortable on, on like zoom? Like what’s your room set up for that? [00:12:30] Christina: Oh, I just do it over the phone. I do it on zoom. [00:12:34] Brett: I can’t, I can’t like speakerphone or do you like sit back and [00:12:39] Christina: I mean, I have, like, I have, like, I have like my AirPods or my AirPods max on, and I’m usually like in bed sometimes I’m [00:12:44] Brett: Yeah. Okay. That’s what I’m asking. That’s exactly what I’m asking. You’re like you’re chilling out. You’re you’re in a comfortable spot in your house. [00:12:51] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I have done it. I think, I think I’ve done it like in, I’m trying to think. Cause, cause with my shrink before I ghosted him for a period of time, I even did it in [00:13:00] New York. So I’ve actually probably been with him at this point, tele wise, almost as much as I was with him. Um, in person, um, There might’ve been a case where we might, I might’ve been like on an above ground subway, right. [00:13:15] Because in New York city, you know, but no one gives a shit. Um, uh, and, and there might’ve, you know, there were a couple of occasions where like, if I couldn’t find an appointment any other time where it was like, okay, I’m, I’m literally walking around New York city or sitting on a park bench. Um, again, no one cares, but in general, uh, yeah, sitting in bed or sitting in my office kind of kicked back relaxed with my headphones in. [00:13:37] Brett: What about you, Jeff? [00:13:38] Jeff: Oh man. Okay. So two different things, two different experiences. So one my therapist for a couple of years who, who retired like a year ago, who I just loved, but she was in, she was older and not like super computer savvy. And in fact did not want to move to telehealth even early in the pandemic, but was obviously open to it. [00:13:56] And I spent the first, I’d say six [00:14:00] or seven. Appointments doing it with her for the first 20 minutes. And you know how frustrating that can be. And so like, you may have entered in the right Headspace, but after being like, no, here’s how I know. It’s your computer mic. I can really hear your fan and your hard drive clicking. [00:14:16] So what I need you to do is, you know, and it’s just, she’s like, no, and then she’d go in, she’d come back. She’d be like, you know, I’ll be like, no, it’s not better. And then there were two full appointments where I just decided not to tell her that the entire time I just heard, this is the worst. [00:14:35] Brett: That’s all you heard or you [00:14:36] Jeff: it was no, I heard her, but from her machine, [00:14:39] Christina: I was hearing that. [00:14:40] you heard, you heard the background bang [00:14:42] Jeff: and, and she had just gotten a new kitten. [00:14:44] And so the kitten would jump onto the computer and then like the keyboard would fall down and she’d be like, oh, hold on. I just don’t know what to do. I’m like, oh my God, I have things to talk about. Am I on the clock? Um, [00:14:55] Brett: there’s [00:14:56] Christina: you are always on the clock. That’s the [00:14:57] answer. [00:14:57] Brett: there’s tape all over my desk to [00:15:00] hold things in place. When the kitten jumps up on it, I’ve just, I’ve accommodated the kitten. [00:15:05] Jeff: My, um, my other one is not an official therapy relationship. I, I had worked on a project that required traveling to some really amazing remote places, internationally with some really amazing people and doing essentially like retreats. Um, and the woman who led those as a therapist, or was a therapist in England and, and is just on the verge of retiring. [00:15:27] Kind of work anymore. Anyway, I really loved working with her and I just wanted to be able to talk with her once or twice a month in, in line with kind of what our conversations had been on these retreats and like the fucking Swiss Alps and, well, actually we ended up on a sex call it’s land in California accidentally. [00:15:43] But, but anyway, this is totally different and it’s amazing. So she is living in like a, like 400 year old cottage in the, you know, like, I don’t know where she is. She’s in rural London, all London, sorry, [00:16:00] everybody right. Rural England. And she has to turn on a generator to do our stuff. She has no power there. [00:16:08] And, and it’s the most sublime experience. And she actually asks me to bring my computer monitor a little more close, like a little closer so that she can feel like we’re a little bit more looking at each other. Cause my, I have my monitor kind of high. And so she’s really mindful about that stuff. She’s like, I can’t connect right now. [00:16:26] Can you just try to bring that monitor down or whatever it doesn’t happen much, but how I pay her? No, I don’t pay her. I send money to a man on death row and it’s someone that she’s, that she, she had done a lot of work on death row in the U S way back in the day, um, like group therapy sessions. And it’s someone that she’s stayed in touch with and who I’m now in touch with and, and building a relationship with. [00:16:54] And, um, and so when I get done, I just go put money on his books and, [00:17:00] uh, and that was the point and he buys amazing paints and sends me a many amazing [00:17:05] Brett: Oh, I was going to ask, like, what if you knew what kind of stuff? Someone with no outs, like obviously it’s death row. He’s never going to like have a savings account or [00:17:14] Jeff: Yeah. And he’s mostly in solitary too, so it’s not like he’s swapping stuff with [00:17:18] Christina: people. So, so it’s yeah. I mean, so, you just like put money in his commissary account or [00:17:23] Jeff: yes, but there are those who, who hear me say that and say, that’s the, that’s the best way to describe you, Jeff, that I know that you love that interaction. [00:17:32] And just, I guess, background, I used to actually visit death row in Illinois as part of the Illinois coalition against the death penalty. So I’d like go to dude cells and ask them, you know, how things were, what they needed. Ha you know, are you all caught up on your Maxim issues? I would get asked for maximum a lot. [00:17:49] Um, anyway, remember Maxim, like it’s like, [00:17:52] it’s like Cinemax. [00:17:53] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:17:53] Brett: and in fact that that’ll be a great lead in to our next, uh, but [00:18:00] speaking of maximum security, [00:18:03] Jeff: Nice. [00:18:04] Brett: Today’s today’s episode of over-tired is brought to you by simply safe home security. Have you ever wanted to know what’s happening at your home when you’re not there? We’re big fans of the new wireless outdoor camera system from simply safe. It lets you see what’s happening outside, right from your phone and alert. [00:18:22] Anyone approaches. So you always know who’s there simply safe has everything you need to keep your home safe from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Simply safe as monitored monitored. 24 7 by professionals. Ready to dispatch police firefighters or EMTC your home simply safe has less than $1 a day and you can set it up in around 30 minutes. [00:18:45] There are no long-term contracts or commitments. You can customize the perfect system for your home. And just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. That’s spelled S I M P L I S a F E [00:19:00] go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitor monitoring. I can’t say monitoring. [00:19:08] Go to simply safe.com/overtired and get your 20% off and your free indoor security camera. [00:19:17] Back to the Future. Or the 90s. [00:19:17] Jeff: Um, interacting with monitoring. Yeah, it does get a little tripped up in [00:19:21] there. [00:19:22] Brett: In the last episode, we, it was mostly about the nineties and, and I would love, we can’t fully recapture the magic. It was, it was an amazing that first hour of the chat. Uh, we, we covered some stuff that I dunno. We’ll see, we’ll see if we recapture any of it, but I’m happy to see where this conversation goes, but I want to start it off by saying I got, uh, the nineties by Chuck close to men. [00:19:52] And like the audio book was released when, when we recorded last week, we were talking about the [00:20:00] potential of it coming out. Now I have it, and I’m going to a couple of chapters into it. And it’s amazing. [00:20:05] Jeff: Wait a minute. Do do me a favor. Just read me a little bit from the back so I can get my head in the space about this book. [00:20:11] Brett: I don’t, I don’t have that. [00:20:13] Jeff: Oh, you have the audio [00:20:14] Brett: I have the audio, but in [00:20:15] Jeff: Go ahead. And just, I’m going to need you to show me. the back of your. [00:20:18] Brett: It’s like listening to Tom Robbins on an audio book. Like there all these sentences you want to highlight and be like, holy shit. That’s just a great sentence. Um, and, and the audio book, you just, you can’t do that. And I kind of am thinking about also getting a paperback of it, or at least a Kindle one I can highlight and. [00:20:38] Christina: Yeah. I find that I do that a lot where I buy, cause I don’t, I okay. As much as many physical things that I have in my life, the one area where I, I, unless there’s no other choice because it’s out of print or something that I’ve like completely cut out, unless it’s like a really special book. And like, it has got a reason to be, um, you know, in, in print, like there are a lot of, there’s a lot of photography or [00:21:00] something. [00:21:00] I don’t buy paper books anymore. I just don’t. Um, I just don’t have the space for them. And, and it’s one of those weird things. Like I still will buy physical media for certain things, but I won’t buy buy books, but I very frequently buy the Kendall version and the audible version for those reasons. Cause I like to be able to read, but. [00:21:17] Brett: So, did you get the nineties? [00:21:19] Christina: Yes. [00:21:20] Brett: Did you start it yet? [00:21:21] Christina: Um, I got through, like, I read like the first essay. [00:21:24] Brett: Okay. Which one was that? Remind me. [00:21:27] Christina: No, I don’t remember. Now I’m going to have to [00:21:29] Brett: Okay. So the one I was listening to last night was on Nirvana and, and, uh, Pearl jam as kind of a side story, [00:21:39] Christina: Yeah, yeah. Okay. [00:21:40] Go on. [00:21:41] Brett: Uh, it was, it was it’s fascinating. He is, he is really good at capturing the nineties in a way that, like, I remember all of the things he’s talking about, but I never thought about it [00:21:53] Christina: Yes. [00:21:54] Brett: this. [00:21:55] Like he describes gen X is really what the book is about. [00:21:59] Christina: That’s really what the [00:22:00] book is about. is about [00:22:00] Jenna. [00:22:01] Brett: disaffected, uh, apathetic, uh, people who, if you told them that they were apathetic, they, their response would be to dismiss you. Like it’s in, in, in, in the process confirming that they are like apathetic. And that describes my generation really well. [00:22:21] Christina: Yeah. In the what’s so interesting to me is that’s not my generation, but it was the culture that I grew up obsessed with. Right. So, so like, it’s this interesting thing, cause we’re going to talk about the real world. I think we’ll be our perfect segues from this. Um, and, um, and, and, and the thing is, um, like, like I grew up like idolizing gen X, but I knew that I was not in it. [00:22:45] Right. Like, and I, and I knew that that, that I, I, I knew it was a moment even as it was happening, because it was basically over, I would say like a lot of like that era, the nineties was probably over by like 96. Um, but like my formative years as a little kid were. [00:23:00] Obsessed and like looking up and like idolizing this idea of, you know, in kind of this apathy and I, and I loved it. [00:23:08] And I think that actually what separates, like my generation, like the millennials from like genetics is that I can’t imagine that gen X ever would’ve idolized or like been excited. You know what I mean? By like a prior generation, right? [00:23:23] Brett: Okay. So he does point out that. In reality bites, the music that they most idolized is from the seventies. And [00:23:32] Christina: makes [00:23:32] Brett: most of their kitsch comes from the [00:23:35] Christina: seventies [00:23:36] Yes. [00:23:37] Brett: and that the nineties generation, uh, there were two things that they, they wished it was still the seventies and that they made a, um, an art form out of, uh, not selling out, but selling out, [00:23:54] Christina: Right. Yes. Which, which is, which is the thing that I, whereas my generation, there was never any qualms and there is [00:24:00] even less for, for like the zoomers like gen Z. There’s even less like, worry about selling out. Like, it’s almost like if anything that you get your bag is, is the thing like get, get, you know, cap like that is the whole thing. [00:24:10] Like you’re excited by selling out my generation. we weren’t necessarily excited by selling out, but we accepted that it was going to happen. And we weren’t like mad about it, [00:24:19] whereas [00:24:20] Brett: didn’t even, we weren’t even able to fully define what selling out what. [00:24:25] Christina: you weren’t right. [00:24:26] Brett: anyone who succeeded, [00:24:28] Christina: Well, that was the thing, right. anyone who succeeded, but the one interesting thing, and this has carried on and, and, and I think that this is why like gen X has been. So even though it’s, it’s a, it’s the smallest generation is it’s in some ways kind of the briefest and, and [00:24:40] Brett: left out of infographics. All of this. [00:24:42] Christina: I was, I was going to say, it’s the forgotten generation, but it’s also, even though it’s left out of those things, I think from a cultural level is one of those impactful. [00:24:50] And, and part of that, I think is a, that the, the millennials who, you know, the biggest generation since the baby boomers, like looked up and idolized and took that as our [00:25:00] cultural cues. Right. Um, and, and so it’s, had this, this outsized impact, but I think the other thing is, you know, it was smart in the sense, like, I think about this a lot, and I think I’ve even written essays about this, probably even in college, I wrote essays about this, which tells you how long ago it was, was like the gen X-ers were the first ones who. [00:25:20] Really embraced nostalgia and the seventies thing is a huge part of that, right? Like there is all the, the, the recreation of the, um, um, uh, what was it? The, the, you know, the I’m disabil no, no, no school house rocks, you know, you know, you know, the, the, the school house rock things and, and the covers of other, you know, seventies classics and like the kitchen element, but there was like this, this big wave of nostalgia and like, embracing that and wanting to go back to that era. [00:25:47] And in my [00:25:48] Brett: I was going to say it’s nostalgia from the perspective that everything sucks now. And it was better. Not just like, things were really fun back then, but like, everything is shit now and everything was [00:26:00] better before. [00:26:01] Christina: And, and, and with my generation, and this is especially true, I think even the generation after, but certainly with my generation, we all had this like, Bo nostalgia in the sense that we are established for shit that we never even experienced. So we’re an established for like, it it’s like a manufactured nostalgia and, and which is why like millennial bait completely is. [00:26:22] And, and, and this goes to, to zoomers a little bit too, but like total millennial bait is stuff like. The saved by the bell pop-up restaurant that I went to in, um, west Hollywood, where they recreated the max and the sensitive of the bell, and you paid like $80 or something, you know, for your prefect, the dinner. [00:26:40] It was great. And, and I, I was very excited to get, to go to, to do it. I happened to be in LA early because there was a snow storm in Seattle and I needed to go to Los Angeles, uh, to go to, um, uh, Australia. So I flew out a day early, went to Disneyland. And then at night, like had like reservations at the pop-up with my friend, [00:27:00] Donna. [00:27:00] We went to the max and then we, um, got on like a 11:30 PM flight to Sydney. So, uh, great, great, great trip. But, um, you know, but that’s the sort of thing, like where they’re selling you back. This, this stuff that you’re not even sure, quite sure what you’re gonna salary about. Like, I was reading this, this trend piece of all things. [00:27:19] Um, in the times, the other day, uh, the American girl cafe in New York city, like influencer, like a old, like younger millennials, like people who were like in their late twenties, early thirties are going to the American girl cafe, not even ironically, but like excitedly and like bringing their old dolls with them and then taking photos and are like very into it. [00:27:40] And like, that’s the thing. Like we have like this, like nostalgia oftentimes for, for the past that, that people can sell it back to us. And we know they’re selling it back to us and we will buy it and we will spend so much money to rebuy shit from our childhood. Um, but, but it’s not in the guise of like, everything was better than which I think was the genetics thing. [00:27:59] It’s like the, [00:28:00] oh my God, I love this. And I remember this kind of thing, right? Like. [00:28:03] Brett: like gen X wouldn’t, gen X didn’t want to be marketed to, um, like they wouldn’t, if it felt like someone was wrapping packaging something and then selling it to you, that was like, that was not cool. [00:28:18] Christina: Right, right. Right. Which whereas like, yeah, [00:28:21] Brett: It’s still isn’t that’s still part of my personality. [00:28:23] Christina: Oh no, I totally, I mean, and whereas part of mine is I’m fully aware that I’m being marketed to, but if it’s cool, I’m like, yeah, I don’t care. I want it. [00:28:31] Brett: Jeff, did you ever see reality bites? [00:28:34] Jeff: I did not. I did not see it. I don’t know why [00:28:37] Brett: It’s okay. It is. Very gen X movie, but it was, it was written by people who wanted to market to gen X. And there’s the, the essay Chuck Klosterman his essay on it is it’s awesome. Uh, he talks about how the, the decision that would own a writer makes between Ethan Hawke and, uh, [00:29:00] and Ben Stiller for gen X, Ethan Hawke was the right decision. [00:29:04] And Ben stellar was the bad guy for almost any generation before or after [00:29:10] Christina: I wrapped her. It’s [00:29:11] Brett: made the wrong choice. [00:29:12] Christina: Right. Totally. And, and it’s interesting because, um, Linda, Linda Holmes, who does a NPR is like a, um, a happy hour or whatever. Like she wrote an essay. I remember, and she is gen X number. She wrote an essay years and years and years and years ago, um, about that. And like, she was like lamenting, you know, like she was watching it, I guess, more as an adult and was like, why would, why would you pick Ethan Hawke? [00:29:34] Um, but at the time remembering that, like, she felt like Ethan Hawke was the only choice and, and my friend, Heidi, who is gen X. Um, and, uh, although she likes to, think of herself as not gen X. And I’m like, I’m sorry, how do you are completely gen X? Like we’ve had this discussion too, where like, in that moment, in that time of her life, like, that’s the only decision you make. [00:29:51] Whereas like, he’s not like Ben Stiller, invincible directed the film too. I think he actually did a really good job with it. I think it was his first directorial, um, [00:30:00] uh, film. Um, and that that’s when he thought that he was going to be a director and not like the superstar he became, um, Like the character, there’s nothing bad about him. [00:30:09] You know, he’s not a villain, but yet he is kind of portrayed as being like it’s [00:30:13] Brett: to gen X he’s, the definition must sell out [00:30:16] Christina: Totally. [00:30:17] A 100. [00:30:17] Brett: else. He’s just a successful, hardworking guy. [00:30:21] Christina: Right to ’em. Uh, my favorite joke from that movie still is when, um, uh, Jeannine Gruffalos character points out that Evian spelled backwards is naive. [00:30:31] Brett: Yeah. [00:30:34] Jeff: I, so I wanna, I wanna add a different sort of layer to this conversation about the nineties, because last week, um, and now this conversation I’m listening to right now, like have it’s really stirred something in me, which is that there are these feelings about that decades. [00:30:52] I’m 43, I’m 43 I’m 47. Which I’m happy to be. [00:31:00] I, my my last year of high school was 1993, so like right, right in there. Um, and the thing about nostalgia, that’s kind of interesting to me, ties to something close to him and says, he, he apparently sort of defines the end of the nineties as being, um, nine 11. [00:31:16] And, and I actually think, you know, I had a ton of nostalgia for the seventies. We had an amazing, um, store here. We still do, but it’s like a, kind of a weird chain now, But it was called Ragstock and you could go downtown and go to Ragstock or uptown. And what they carried was tons of like surplus clothes. [00:31:32] They carried the kind of clothes that probably now are likely to be shipped over to poor countries where you like, see people wearing a champion shirt. [00:31:40] Brett: they charged enough for them that it wasn’t a good. [00:31:45] Jeff: But it created it as a bit of a sideline, but it created such an interesting fashion thing for us, because while as like, okay, so whereas in Seattle, like we all started to identify Seattle with the flannel and the baggy jeans and all that stuff [00:32:00] right here. What was going on was basically dictated by what was for sale at Ragstock. [00:32:05] And so Ragstock sent like, Ragstock sold a bunch of army surplus clothes. So there were a lot of like camel pants. They sold a ton of scrubs, like just like the regular old blue scrubs. And so like everybody, I knew their pajama pants were like blue scrubs. Right. And like, it was such an amazing thing because it was just one place. [00:32:25] They didn’t have any other places. And it just dictated what, like the nineties looked like until, um, until it really became. The flannel or whatever. Anyway, that’s like, you can just edit that out. Cause it’s not even that interesting a sidebar, but what I want it to say was the, um, the nostalgia for the seventies, similar to Clusterman saying that, um, the nineties ended in on nine 11, like the seventies kind of began in 68 for us. [00:32:52] Not, not for the people who lived it. Right. Like they still had to fucked up years to live before they could go turn the page. [00:33:00] Right. [00:33:00] Christina: Well, I mean, cause a lot of people feel like the seventies started with with, well, I mean I’m maybe 60, but I would say, well, yeah, the war, I would save it. But also, I mean, I don’t, most people agree like the end of the sixties was like the, the Manson murders. [00:33:11] Jeff: I could see that. Yeah. I mean, I could see that I could see feeling that way. Like I wasn’t, I was totally tuned into that. Um, but for me it was like, It was like everything, the whole timeline of the seventies, for me, beginning in 68, was that it was about sort of a revolution going off. [00:33:29] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. [00:33:31] And, and, and that would, and I, and I think maybe like the final nail would be like, um, the, the, the, the, the Manson, um, uh, murders. Um, I always also think about it and look, I mean, this was, you know, uh, decades before I was born. So like, I don’t have direct like impact or whatnot, but the, uh, um, one of my favorite films is, um, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid. [00:33:51] And, and that film is a metaphor for the end of the [00:33:54] sixties. [00:33:55] Jeff: I’ll have, you know, I started watching that movie last week for like the 50th [00:33:58] Brett: Did you finish it [00:34:00] though? Cause it’s, it’s a very different movie. If you don’t say the last in. [00:34:03] Christina: That’s true. [00:34:05] Jeff: It’s true. But I’ve seen it So much that it doesn’t matter, [00:34:08] but, but that, that came on. I just am just Wikipedia. And this that came out in September of 69 and, and I’m certainly not the first person who said this, but like that film to me has always been like a metaphor for like the end of the sixties, you know? [00:34:19] Brett: do you think the nineties started? Because I’m looking at album releases year by year. [00:34:27] Jeff: No, I’ll tell you. Okay, hold on. I’m just going to jump in on that with Albertsons. I will say that it’s very easy in the case of the start of the nineties, for me to say it started in 1990, because everything that you use to sort of define the, uh, like cultural rejectionist, like attitude of that starts in like 91. [00:34:47] But the thing it’s reacting against fucking peaks in night. [00:34:51] Christina: Yes. Yes. I would agree with that. And I also feel like, I mean, cause you could make the argument that is the Gulf war that starts it. So that’s 91, but I do feel like it’s [00:35:00] 1990, also like 1990 and, and, and, and to be clear, what’s so interesting about the nineties is that the rejection aspect was really, I mean, it, it was, it’s what people think about and, and it was like hot and bright, but again, it was over by 96, right. [00:35:13] So it’s really only half the decade. And the other half of the decade goes hardcore into digital and consumerism and all the things that are the total opposite of really what that first half of the decade was. Right. Hip hop, right? Like, like hip hop and grunge could not be more diametrically opposed in terms of like, what. [00:35:33] With their values and celebrations are, and I love both equally, but like, if you, if you look at it, like, especially not that, not that rap music didn’t exist in the eighties, but it was different. Right. So when you look at like, like east coast and west coast battles, and you look at like the, the, the fact that they are now bragging about how much they have, and they are like celebrating, you know, what, what they’re doing, which is, again, they’re celebrating, selling out, right? [00:35:56] Like, which is complete opposite of, of the grunge [00:36:00] movement. But then that takes over culturally and, and, and that, you know, becomes like my generation people who are, you know, teenagers and in the late 1990s, like we loved the grunge stuff and we looked up to that, but we didn’t have. You know, like, like that, that time had passed, you know what I mean? [00:36:17] Like, it was, it was a different thing. We went into emo, we went into, you know, like, like, like maybe like goth stuff. Like it was a different sort of thing. Um, but I feel like the beginning of like 1990, at least in my mind, I think you’re right. I think it’s 1990 as a starting point, because like what happened in 91, as you said, was a rejection of that, but it was also similar to 2000, although it was 2001 I think is when the two thousands really started where everybody, everything was it’s the nineties, like, like everybody was excited about it. [00:36:47] You know, like it was this, it was this brand instantly. It was the nineties, like instantly. [00:36:52] Brett: Without looking what year did pretty hate machine come out? [00:36:57] Christina: 91 [00:36:57] 92 [00:36:58] Brett: 89. [00:37:00] [00:37:00] Christina: shit. [00:37:01] Jeff: Yeah. [00:37:01] Brett: So there, I’m looking like the releases in 89 are this mix of things that I easily associate with the eighties and a bunch of stuff that if you asked me, I would assume came out in the nineties. Like Nirvana’s bleach was 89 faith. No more. [00:37:17] The real thing was 89. [00:37:19] Christina: Definitely. [00:37:20] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, [00:37:21] Christina: no, that makes [00:37:22] Brett: first album louder or first single louder than love. Do a little. [00:37:27] Jeff: Well, and all of that stuff gets vacuumed into the nineties because these are all the bands that signed with major labels and became, [00:37:33] Christina: and he became huge and became sellouts. But, but, and then everybody would lie. Um, I’m assuming they’re all lying. [00:37:38] Cause they’re, cause people always lie about this and they’re like, oh, I wasn’t listening to this. When it was on that, I was like, no, you weren’t, you didn’t know. It’s like, it’s like, I don’t care who like, unless you were an actual, like, like Chuck cluster. Probably listened to those bands before they blew up. [00:37:52] But if you’re, you know what I mean? And like, like people who are music writers and people who lived in those areas and could go to those clubs, but most of the people who became [00:38:00] the most disaffected or were like, oh yeah, they sold out. I’m like, you didn’t even listen to Nirvana until nevermind came out. [00:38:04] You know what I mean? [00:38:05] Jeff: And like, to, to flip that only a tiny better to like, reframe that a tiny bit for me, I was never super, um, like in the moment, right? In like 90, 91, 92, 93, I wasn’t really caught up personally in like the sellout thing, because it just seemed too simple to me because what we know about bands and I was in bands from like eighth grade till I was like 23, is that there are groups of people who are don’t operate very functionally, right. [00:38:35] Who have like a real gift to do this [00:38:37] Brett: Individually or as a group they don’t operate. [00:38:40] Jeff: group and, and often individually as a group, for sure. And that’s, that’s the group that has to make the decision about, well, you know, Sony just came knocking, right. Or like, whatever. And I just feel like those were people having to make some decisions that nobody had made a sort of, there was no pathway that they knew of [00:39:00] to go from what Soundgarden was doing on like ultra mega. [00:39:03] Okay. To what Soundgarden was going to be doing when they’re singing, you know, about the super unknown, right? Like there was no, there was no way to know that transition was going to happen, but there was also no pathway to go from something so wonderfully ugly to the mainstream in the biggest fucking way. [00:39:21] I still, I listened to Cannonball by the breeders. Like I, I remember that one and I [00:39:26] Brett: bed used to cover that song. [00:39:28] Jeff: eat. [00:39:28] Brett: It’s two chords. It’s fun. [00:39:30] Jeff: I had, yeah, I just watched them. I’m performing it on MTV. It was still early enough in the nineties that it blew my mind, even as a fan that this band was so huge off of a song that starts by going, like, it’s just like, and then goes, bring your own way in your own round. [00:39:49] And I’d still look back at those first, like really big songs of that period. And I’m like, holy shit. I know what I was listening to when that stuff came out. I know what I [00:40:00] jumped. I know like what Lily pad I jumped from to get on that Lily pad. And I cannot explain that jump. It is fucking crazy. [00:40:08] Christina: I know it is. [00:40:09] And for me, like I, in my mind, just because it was like the age when I really got into music or whatever, it was probably like 93, I would say. When I was like, you know, like, like eight and, and that was kind of like the time when I, you know, that stuff. Like I remember like, like, like the most standout memory to me about kind of like when things in my mind shifted was cause I, I listened to pop music and, and, and to stuff that wasn’t great, you know, and like 80 stuff. [00:40:35] I, my very first concert that I ever went to was Paula Abdul, who, you know what I love, I love Paul Abdul, but you know what I mean? But Paula Abdul is very different from the other stuff. Like she had her moment and then kind of, you know, faded out because there wasn’t space for that in the period where she still could have been viable as, as a recording artist. [00:40:53] Um, but I remember seeing like the smashing pumpkins video for today and, and that just like. [00:41:00] Just the whole, just the juxtaposition between the lyrics and how w you know, and, and yet what the song was really saying in the music video and the whole thing, like, it just like got me. And it was like similar to, you know, the, the, the, the breeder song, which is so just iconic. [00:41:16] Like, it’s one of those most iconic, like, kind of baseline, sorts of nineties things, you know, and, and it just kind of blows your mind and, and it is so interesting to look at. Um, and we’re gonna talk about this a little bit later, I think, but like, when you look at like, like the, the hair metal era and, and how that was deep in it, and that, and in a, in a second that went away. and, and like I missed out on, on all the hair metal stuff. [00:41:42] Um, but, but I’ve watched enough behind the music and, [00:41:45] Brett: it went away. [00:41:47] Christina: and yep, exactly. [00:41:48] Brett: 92, when all those, all those albums [00:41:51] Jeff: No, [00:41:52] you know, when it went away, it was actually a very soft launch, the non hair model metal days, because all of the, like for [00:42:00] lack of a better term, grunge folk had long hair and it was when they started cutting their hair. That that truly died, I think. [00:42:07] Brett: a, there was a quote from Kurt Cobain about Eddie Vetter, where he, he said that Eddie Vetter was a hair metal guy, and then he stopped washing his hair and got famous. [00:42:21] Christina: Which is fucking brilliant and perfect. Right. But, but yeah, but I don’t know, but I remember like, like Beck’s loser and like the smashing pumpkins. That’s another [00:42:30] Jeff: great example. [00:42:32] Brett: was another, that was another brilliant point. That closer man made me realize that I never thought about what you had, like in a short period of time, Radiohead declaring themselves creeps, uh, smashing pumpkins, declaring themselves zeros. And like every, like all the biggest hits within a [00:42:49] Christina: was later. No, zero was 96, but yeah, but we’re [00:42:52] Brett: All okay. Within a decade, all, all the biggest hits seem to be about declaring yourself, unfit. [00:42:59] Christina: [00:43:00] Totally. Totally. [00:43:01] Jeff: Go ahead. [00:43:01] Christina: Go ahead. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. I’m done going, going, well, I [00:43:04] Jeff: want to jump on unfit. I also want to point out that we are definitely talking about white culture in the nineties, right? Like, yes. Um, like [00:43:11] Christina: I said, [00:43:11] Brett: average when you say the nineties. Yeah. Like hip hop is almost its own BS. When you talk about gen X, no one thinks about hip hop. [00:43:20] Christina: No, I know. And that, and, and I think this is why I was like, trying to point out, even though gen X is definitely part of that. And some people listen to it also even speaking about white people like you don’t and I don’t, I haven’t read his book enough to know, like my sister was really into country music and uh, I mean she listened to [00:43:37] Brett: Shania Twain was huge in the nineties. [00:43:39] Christina: Yeah, late nineties. [00:43:40] but, but I’m talking like Garth Brooks, Garth Brooks, like, yeah, like, like I I’m talking like, like, like Garth’s albums, like sold like, like, you know, Shanaya is unique. I mean, she’s, she was like the Taylor swift at that time where, you know, I think it is still the selling female album of all time is, is, um, um, uh, come [00:44:00] on over, like by a ridiculous margin. [00:44:03] It’s like 35 million copies worldwide or something just insane. But, um, but like Garth Brooks and, and, and, and, uh, you know, some of those other things like that was like big, um, but hip hop. I think that that started to shift probably in, in also around 1990, maybe late eighties with, with NWA and stuff, but then you really do see, like, I would say it’s interesting because that really, I think like it’s probably 93 or whatever, you’re the chronic came out where, where there’s like a big shift there [00:44:35] Jeff: man, Garth Brooks. [00:44:36] The other thing about the nineties is if you had set me for most of the nineties, if you had put me, uh, you know, said here’s a mark on the floor and we just stand here and then Garth Brooks, I want you to stand here. And Chris Cornell, I want you to stand here so that they’re on either side of me. And you had to guess which one was my uncle. [00:44:51] You would definitely guess Garth Brooks. Right? Like I did not look except for long hair. Like this world I was fascinated with. [00:44:59] Christina: Like, [00:45:00] and, and, and the chronic was, was December of 92. So it was close. So [00:45:03] Brett: that up. I was gonna, I was gonna tell you, like I knew, um, okay. We, we need to do another sponsor break and then I want to talk about Pam and Tommy before we end this part one, I promise we’ll get to like real world reunion in, in part two of this, of this two-part episode we’re doing in the meantime, [00:45:26] Sponsor: Mint Mobile [00:45:26] Christina: If saving more and spending less as one of your top goals for 2022 and come on, I think that should be all our goals. [00:45:32] Why are you still paying insane amounts of money every month for wireless switching to mint, mobile is the easiest way to save this year as the first company to sell premium wireless service online only mint mobile lets you maximize your savings with plans starting at just $15 a month. 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[00:46:47] I can buy so much stuff with all that money. It’s crazy that I ever paid that much. [00:46:54] Christina: I love it. And so to get your new wireless plan for just 50 bucks a month, like bread, where you [00:47:00] can save so much money and have so much more, uh, so much more room for, for, uh, for activities, Uh, to, to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. And to get the plan shipped to your door for free, go to emit mobile.com/overtired that’s mint, mobile.com/overtired. you can cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mint mobile.com/overtired. [00:47:24] Prosthetic penises. Penii? [00:47:24] Brett: Uh, you know, you can spend all that extra money on [00:47:27] Jeff and Christina: What’s that? [00:47:28] Brett: porn. [00:47:29] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, and Katie, I was, I was going to say I was like aunt or [00:47:33] Brett: there an album like porn and candy. Wasn’t it like a cure album or [00:47:36] Christina: it was no sex and candy and it was Marcy’s playground. [00:47:39] Brett: very nice job. I knew I could count on you for that. [00:47:42] Jeff: whole world is Morrissey’s [00:47:43] Jeff and Christina: playground. [00:47:44] Brett: um, uh, which brings us to, that was my lead in to talking about Pam and Tommy, which we talked about last in the last episode. Uh, but at that point I had only seen one or two episodes. [00:47:58] And my [00:48:00] impression was that they, they portrayed Tommy Lee as like purely an asshole. Sure. He’s an asshole, but he’s got that like ADHD energy and like a charm that wasn’t coming through in their portrayal. And it became very obvious starting in the third episode that they set it up brilliantly so that you hated Tommy Lee enough that when his tape was stolen, You felt like it was justice, you thought he deserved that. [00:48:34] And then before the tape goes like big and before it like could ruin his life, they turned Tommy Lee back into a sympathetic character. Like Pamela Anderson is always a sympathetic character in this, but they make T they, they turned Tommy Lee into the bad guy before they turn them into one big gray area. [00:48:53] And I thought it was brilliant. You guys keeping up with it? [00:48:57] Christina: no, I am. I am. I’m not, I’m not. [00:49:00] Um, I, I think I’m, I think I’m through episode three. Um, uh, so I’m not like caught up, but, but I, but I am watching and I think that’s actually a really, really astute observation is they totally did like, make it more sympathetic and make it? [00:49:11] a gray area. We talked about this a little bit in the last, but I want to bring it up again. [00:49:15] It is interesting to me how they have just, and I wonder if it’s a political thing that at this point, that the same age, there’s no way they could portray her as anything but sympathetic. Um, but it is interesting, like she is, she is, she’s got like the most sympathetic portrayal ever. And, and to be clear, like, I don’t think she did anything wrong and I don’t think he did anything wrong. [00:49:38] So I supplied it part of this. I have to like adjust my own, I guess. Um, You know, like, uh, opinions and, and, and expectations and other things and biases, because now I think of the two of them, he’s still like kind of a jerk and kind of a guy, but like, he’s actually a lot, it seems a lot more stable and a lot more together than she does. [00:49:59] You know [00:49:59] what I [00:50:00] [00:50:00] Brett: I haven’t kept track. Like I, okay. So when that tape came out, I knew very well who Tommy Lee was. I had heard of Pamela Anderson. I never read the Playboy. I never, I still, I’ve never seen an episode of Baywatch. Like, I didn’t know anything about Pamela Anderson [00:50:16] Christina: Whereas, whereas I was the exact opposite. I knew exactly who she was. I had no idea [00:50:21] Brett: don’t know what she’s like now. [00:50:23] Christina: Yeah, she’s gotten like, way, way far into like conspiracy theory stuff. Like she was like, she was like, uh, visiting Juliana sands, like in jail all the time. Like, like, like not in jail, but like, um, at, when he was in asylum, when he was like, no, no. [00:50:35] When he was at the embassy, the embassy in London, like he was [00:50:39] Brett: Ah, yeah. [00:50:39] Christina: room for years, inequity at the Ecuadorian embassy, where he was like using all their internet and costing them, like, like hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Um, she was visiting him, but she’s gone like way off the deep end. [00:50:51] And, and he, uh, is, uh, he’s got like a younger wife, girlfriend or whatever who I think is younger than some of his sons, which [00:51:00] is the least surprising thing. I think you could say about Tommy Lee. Like, of course he does, but, but he seemed at least. two of them, like, I actually find him more like normal now. [00:51:12] but at the time, obviously he was like the bad boy and, you know, he had like the high profile relationships before, and then she was never America’s sweetheart also she’s Canadian. [00:51:23] But she was like, which is so far, which is so interesting. Like I think for a lot of people, it is interesting. Like she’s probably one of the most quintessential American, like, you know, like icons, you know, in terms of like women in like the nineties and that sort of thing. Right? Like if you, if you were to think like all American, whatever, like Pamela Anderson probably come to mind, she’s freaking Canadian. [00:51:43] Um, which I don’t know. I just love that, but she was like, Uh, so her star was so on the rise. Right? She was huge. Um, I, uh, I talked to you both about this before, like, Brett, you weren’t aware of her, but, but, but, but Jeff, like, you definitely [00:52:00] like knew like the panel Anderson, like Playboy stuff. [00:52:03] Jeff: Yeah, for sure. [00:52:04] Yeah. Cause my mom had gotten me a subscription. Um, but, but yeah, and I, and it was Baywatch and there’s something else she [00:52:11] Christina: did. Oh yes. She was on a home improvement. [00:52:14] Jeff: She was right. She was now. And honestly like much as I like to identify with like heavy metal in those days. And, and maybe even like a guy who has Playboy and the drawers under his water bed, but like honestly, uh, home improvement was where I found the most personal [00:52:31] connection. [00:52:32] Christina: Yeah. It was that. What was the name of it? uh, the, the, the guy who was, who was, who was his partner, um, Richard Richard kind I think is, is the actor’s name, but, but, uh, um, I can see his beard. Um, this [00:52:46] Jeff: is going probably see his beard. Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:49] Christina: He was, he was the guy who looked like Bob Vila and then like, um, uh, like, like Tim Allen, you know, was, was, uh, the other thing, Okay. this is bothering me. [00:52:58] This [00:52:58] Jeff: is, I’m looking it up [00:53:00] too. And I got home home Depot as the first response. [00:53:05] Christina: Oh, Al Al and it’s not Richard kind. Richard kind is a much better actor. It’s Richard Carn, uh, apologies to, to, to, to Richard kind who, uh, was on, um, another great 90 sitcoms spin city. Um, but, uh, bill Lawrence, um, if, if you I’m just going to go on my ADHD, like Wikipedia, tangent, uh, spin city, but got a scrubs, uh, which, uh, then, uh, the God, um, some of the other things in, in most recently. [00:53:34] Ted lasso. So, um, but anyway, but, but, [00:53:37] Jeff: oh God. Yes. yeah. Also do you know, I mean, I didn’t realize this exactly, but since we’re talking about the nineties and when to cap it and started home improvement ran from 91 to [00:53:48] 99. [00:53:49] Christina: Yeah. [00:53:49] That’s true. It could just be, it could just be the home improvement generation, honestly, if you really wanted to come down to it, it could, it could just be the home improvement generation. [00:53:58] Um, now not, not to [00:54:00] get too far down into that, but I will say like one of like the icons of my childhood and like, like, uh, like the first like teen, like the, one of the poster children, like, like, like, like, um, I guess like teen stars of the nineties was definitely Jonathan Taylor, Thomas, um, who, um, uh, kind of disappeared and whatnot, but he, his face was everywhere for girls my age and, um, And then, then he pissed him Allan off and like left the show. [00:54:27] Like the last season. He was like, I don’t want to do this anymore. I want to go to college. But anyway, um, but back, back, back to like non children, like stars, uh, Pam Anderson and, and Tommy Lee. Um, have you been watching, um, Jeff, have you been watching [00:54:41] Jeff: the show at all? I see. I am having the hardest time deciding if I can watch it because I, I had such a, I identified somehow so hard with those guys as an entity, that band as an entity, even though they were fucking. [00:54:57] Like, yeah. Motley crew, even though they were completely [00:55:00] like despicable humans, but like whatever it’s, so was everybody I loved as it turns out. Um, and, and so like, and Tommy Lee, I was a drummer, Tommy Lee was a drummer and I like, like Tommy Lee, I was like a drummer that felt like maybe he he’s worth being a little more in front than, than most drummers. [00:55:20] Right. I mean, I [00:55:21] Christina: didn’t start the band. [00:55:22] Jeff: Right. [00:55:23] Brett: front, in front and upside [00:55:24] Jeff: I didn’t get so far. Yeah. And let’s talk about actually, so I just want, this is a man just for anybody that doesn’t know what time of Lee was like without a talking penis. Um, basically like this was a man who already. Like the star of the show, even when all it was, was a regular old stage, right? [00:55:43] Like he was one of those drummers that like stood up so tall between his drum parts. That it’s almost like he was desperately saying like, I’m back here, you know, like, don’t forget me. and and he turned that into an entire fucking crane lift [00:56:00] system that would take his drum set in a cage, up into the sky, over the crowd. [00:56:06] And then I watched a video of this this week. So it’s, it’s, it’s such bad showmanship actually in the videos when you see him going upside down and stuff, it’s super cool. Right. Cause it’s like all quick cuts and, and it just seems like everything’s so energetic, basically, like. Yeah. He’s like city, you see it’s a strap in so he has to have seatbelts. [00:56:27] He has to have like a, like a trucker’s chair, right seat and right. Not obviously. And then he has over the shoulder seatbelts. Right. So that when he tips to the left or the writer, when he goes upside down, he doesn’t like totally fall over. Right. And so he basically like, there’s this big moment where he comes out over the crowd, but then he just tells the dumbest fucking story to bring everyone in to what’s happening, which is basically this and with about this much energy. [00:56:52] Hey everybody. So the other night, man, I had a dream and I was on stage and it was awesome. And [00:57:00] you guys were there and there was just like this thought I had, which was like, man, what if I could go just a little bit to the left? And then the thing goes to the left. He’s like, and What if I could go just a little bit to the right. [00:57:12] You know, it’s like it’s to the right. And then he said, Literally says the most important words of the late eighties, early nineties, fucking choice. And then, and then he keeps coming back to the dream and he keeps playing drums while he’s doing this and not well, like he’s a [00:57:29] Brett: are we watching? What are you talking [00:57:31] Jeff: This is a YouTube video where you can watch, this is my own dream. [00:57:34] I’m [00:57:34] Brett: Throw this in the show notes. [00:57:36] Jeff: I will. So then it’s time for him to spin around. Right. And for some like fireworks to happen. And so he’s like, and then I thought, man, but that’s cool. But like, what if I could go all the way around and predictably? What happens when he’s going around is that you start to notice that like cocaine, Jack Daniels and being upside down does not make sense. [00:57:57] Good of drumming. Like [00:58:00] there’s only so much in your grab bag that you can even reach when you’re upside down and, and he doesn’t actually do anything to make it exciting. It’s just like, you all came to the concert, knowing he’s probably going to go upside down cause you saw the video and you’re waiting for it to happen and it’s happening. [00:58:15] And it’s literally just a guy going And now I will go to the left, you know, but like with a little more something. So anyway, that’s Tommy Lee, he was incredibly charming. He had that, like that like devilish smile where you’re like, I’m totally gonna hang with this guy and he’s totally gonna fuck me. And he’s totally going to be like, Hey man, oh, can I scratch on your couch for a little bit? [00:58:39] Like, I don’t need [00:58:40] Brett: going to hate myself tomorrow, but it’s going to [00:58:42] Jeff: Totally. He’s that guy. And you’re like, I don’t care. Cause I love him and he’s fun. Right. And, and. And I don’t know that I want to ruin that very specific sense. Cause it’s the one thing I hold on to that I appreciate because I look back on all the videos. Like I was talking in the last [00:59:00] episode about band home videos in the late eighties and early nineties where like they would release a VHS like basically documentary though. [00:59:07] It’s a little bit of an insult to the form. Uh, whenever they’d request, whenever they’d release an album and you’d be like, it’d be like a little bit in the studio. And like, they’d give the dudes cameras sometimes. And sometimes it would be staged, you know? And like, but you kinda got to look at them, right? [00:59:23] Like you kind of got a sense for it. Wasn’t like the real vulnerable them. And I certainly wasn’t asking for that and would have been fairly disappointed had I gotten it. Um, but it was like this, this like look into what it’s like to be the thing that I wanted most to be, which was a rock star with long hair. right And I, and I got so much out of those videos that. By the time 98 rolled around, I had already like put all that shit away in a drawer. I decided what Motley crew meant to me and I’d put it away in a drawer. And so I didn’t even watch the sex tape. And for that same reason, I’m not sure I can watch the show even though I really [00:59:57] Christina: want to know. [00:59:59] [01:00:00] No, no, no, No, I appreciate it. And it’s a good answer. And you mentioned you never [01:00:03] even watched the sexy and bright, you never watched it either. Right? [01:00:06] Brett: never [01:00:06] Christina: Okay. So I’m somehow the only one, you’re seeing like the most [01:00:10] Brett: the one, the one woman in the group is the only one who’s seen the pornography. [01:00:15] Christina: 100% well know. And again, like, I think, you know, cause it was like this, you know, th this moment where, um, I think most people saw it like on video, but, but a lot of people did download it that, you know, internet was still slow then, but it was like the first time where, you know, like codex and stuff existed where you could take this low resolution, like home video footage and, and potentially upload it in like posted size stuff and then download it. [01:00:37] I’m pretty sure I saw it at somebody’s house. Uh somebody’s dad probably bought it. Um, and, and, and we watched it like, [01:00:44] Brett: mom let’s not be sexist. [01:00:46] Christina: I mean, I’m just being realistic and this case, like, I, I think that it would be, it would, it would be a dad who would bite even though, even though the interesting thing with the sex tape is that it’s verite it’s it’s, uh, we, we talked about this [01:01:00] in, uh, in the last episode, but the like the sex tapes that came after it are all much more aware of the camera. [01:01:08] And, and I, and I, I had a feeling that’s because people had more kind of an idea that like either they might rewatch it again, or, you know, even in the back of their mind, this might somehow be released [01:01:21] Brett: video video cameras, weren’t home, like personal video cameras were kind of a novelty at, at the time that the sex tape was made. So like no one was experienced with this is how you act when the camera’s running. Although Pam probably understood camera’s pretty well [01:01:39] Christina: Like, I mean, yeah, he did too. Right. Both of them did, but, but, but, but I think that it was like a, it was very much of a, these were home, home movies. This wasn’t a people who had just gotten together, just gotten married where like, in that, that, that height of like, they’re like, we’re in love and we’re fucking like bunnies. [01:01:53] And, and we’re capturing this because we have a camera here thing rather than, you know, we’re, we’re making like a sex tape that we’ll [01:02:00] rewatch. Like if use ads cause. Um, a couple of years ago and it struck me, I was like, yeah, you view it. And you’re like, you would never, this, this reads is footage that people recorded. [01:02:12] They were probably never going to watch it again. Um, and, and because of that, you know, it, there is, uh, quite a quality to it that if you really think about it, like is, is really kind of sad and kind of exploitative because it’s like this was stolen from them. It was a crime. Um, and, and the show goes into that. [01:02:31] And, uh, but, but it’s one of those things where it’s like, it does feel very personal in a way that most of those things don’t. So there is an interesting thing in that aspect, but from, but from the SEC’s perspective, it’s mostly his Dick, like, honestly, like what, that’s, what you [01:02:47] Brett: Which is a perfect segue into, okay. So [01:02:50] Jeff: wait a perfect segue into, [01:02:52] Brett: into into prosthetic penises, because in the last episode we spent a good chunk of time on prosthetic penises, and I was [01:03:00] tired enough that I don’t remember it. However, all the show notes and descriptions I already have written up are pretty heavy on the prosthetic penis. [01:03:09] So I just, I want to keep the, the show notes as much as possible. So we have to at least mention [01:03:16] Jeff: can I, can I say my favorite line from that. discussion, but go ahead. Sorry. Sorry. [01:03:20] Brett: Okay. So, [01:03:21] Jeff: I got it. I got it. No, seriously. I got it. I got it. Ready. My favorite, my favorite line. You said it, you said when the penis started talking, that’s when I knew it was a prosthetic. [01:03:32] Brett: Sure. Yeah. And then we talked about how, like boogie nights, I never realized that was a prosthetic. And we talked about porn, or we talked about how movie stars, like don’t all have big decks. I remember that I remember the gist of the conversation, but just for clarity in the first, uh, episode one or two, a Pam and Tommy, Tommy Lee is standing in front of the mirror and his Dick is [01:04:00] talking to him with Ralphie’s voice with a Jason meant sukus voice and Rafi from the league. [01:04:10] No, [01:04:12] Christina: know I’m watching. I had the same thought [01:04:14] Brett: That would be, that would be even weirder. Yeah. But, but it, the, the, the, the penis is moving around and like, it, it, it, yes, it’s clearly not a real penis. And there’s a link in the show notes. It’s called prosthetics, animatronic, CGI, and Jason Minsu because Pam and Pam and Tommy made a penis talk in shimmy. [01:04:38] So if you want to know more, you can go there. But if we have anything further to say, please take it away. [01:04:45] Christina: Uh, yeah, no, I mean, I think it’s just interesting like that again, like the real guys, like Dick is like, you know, she’s so famous, like for being naked and they’re certainly part of that, but like really the whole thing with this is really in weird ways. Like the whole [01:05:00] iconography of the tape is like his giant penis. [01:05:03] Brett: What if, what if he had a micro penis and the tape was how the world found out? Because as it is, the tape was, if you like net benefit, probably good for Tommy and bad for Pam, but [01:05:18] Christina: yeah, probably although it’s interesting, right? Because I mean, at this point she’s Playboy, she’s known for being played Playboy and she’s known for being Baywatch. And, and, and so at that point, and I’m not, again, trying to say that, like, there is no difference between like, you know, like pornography and, um, like, you know, taking like nude photographs and Playboy or, or, or whatever, but [01:05:39] like she was known for her body. [01:05:41] She was known for that. She was trying to break into actual mainstream acting roles. [01:05:47] Brett: Right. [01:05:47] Christina: I don’t know this. Yeah. Which I don’t know if it helped or hurt. I mean, I think, honestly, the thing that hurt is that she’s not, she’s not an actress, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, no, that’d be just being honest, Right. Because like, like Jenny McCarthy, I always, you [01:06:00] know, and again, she’s gone off the rails and other ways too, but like Jenny McCarthy was actually. [01:06:04] And like actually had a lot of talents speak. We’re going to talk about the MTB in our next episode, but like Jenny McCarthy, actually, who was, she was the other big, like Playboy person of that era. Like she actually, I think, like I remember the Jenny McCarthy show, which was like her sketch comedy show, which was quite good, honestly. [01:06:21] Like it, it, uh, [01:06:22] Brett: I seem to remember liking that. Yeah. [01:06:24] Christina: honestly, I think that Jenny McCarthy’s problem, which is the opposite of the Pamela Anderson problem is that Jim McCarthy is, is talented enough that it doesn’t match with what she looks like. So you don’t expect someone who looks like her to have the comedic sensibilities that she has. [01:06:38] It just doesn’t compute. So, so that’s the problem. Whereas Pamela Anderson, if she’d been a slightly better actress could have, you know, maybe done more with it, but I, I don’t know, like if it was a, a net negative or if it was maybe neutral, but I definitely think it was a net positive for him, for sure. [01:06:59] Jeff: The one [01:07:00] thing, [01:07:00] Brett: okay, go ahead. No, I was gonna, I was gonna try to like, bring us to an end of the episode, but if you have more to say absolutely do it. [01:07:08] Jeff: just a little bit, but I also would really love to point something out very different about the nineties before we’re closed, just because it. [01:07:13] feels like, um, it feels weird not to bring it up. Yeah. [01:07:18] You’re really, you’re going to regret that when I tell you what it is. [01:07:21] Brett: Yeah. [01:07:22] Jeff: so, But first of all, it, you know, the thing about Tommy Lee being like a front man, instead of just a drummer, like, I didn’t realize this until I was just looking again at the celebrity sex tape list, which I learned a lot from last week. [01:07:35] Like the next sex tape that she was in was with Brett Michaels, the singer poison. I mean, I put singer in quotes, but like he was hot. He was super hot. No, for sure. And you know what that was, I was in [01:07:48] Brett: and I gave him something to believe. [01:07:51] Christina: Yeah, you did. You did. [01:07:52] No, I have to say, like, he was one of the, like, I didn’t find most of those guys attractive at all. [01:07:56] And again, this was one of those things I wasn’t aware of him until way after, [01:08:00] like, he was, he was big. I remember, but I remember again, like watching, like him on like VH1 behind the music and it’s before they gave him his own, like, uh, um, a flavor of love type show or whatnot. And I was like, okay, I realize you’re wearing the do right. [01:08:11] Cause you’re you’re bald. I’m sure you’ve got the long hair, but he was like, he was, he was cute. I’m the one who’s actually instill had like hair, uh, would be, what was it? I’m Sebastian Bach. [01:08:23] Jeff: Is that a thing? Oh, he was, he was [01:08:25] Brett: who was in my opinion, the best of the hard rock singers, [01:08:30] Jeff: Oh, amazing. [01:08:31] Brett: frustratingly homophobic, [01:08:33] Jeff: Yup. [01:08:34] Brett: but like his voice, like skip, especially like the eighties version of skid row, but even slave to the grind. Like he, he really, he embodied hard rock singer for me. [01:08:47] Christina: Yeah. And then, And then he wound up and again, like I became more aware of him. I think again, like I first was aware from like behind the music or something. I was like, oh, you’re you’re attractive. And then he wound up on the Gilmore girls. [01:08:58] Oh, [01:08:58] I didn’t know that. [01:09:00] Yeah. So he was in, um, uh, um, Rory, his best friend, um, uh, lane is in a band and, uh, w with the guy that she winds up marrying, and one of the other band members is Sebastian Bach who plays like a completely, you know, just kind of like a cool kind of like, you know, guy, but he’s not playing Sebastian Bach. [01:09:21] Like he’s just playing kind of like a normal kind of like band dude. Yeah, yeah. Which was actually kind of [01:09:27] great. Yeah. Yeah. [01:09:28] Brett: had a drummer named Rachael or not a bass player named Rachel who? Wasn’t a girl. [01:09:33] Jeff: Mm. [01:09:34] Brett: I spent years of my life. This is back in the nineties when like, you couldn’t just. Look shit up on the internet and you just, you ran with assumptions. And that was one of the things closer men talked about was like, nobody had a record like Nelson Mandela didn’t die in the eighties, but it was a generally accepted fact that he did because the internet wasn’t a thing. [01:09:58] Anyway, anyway, [01:09:59] Jeff: [01:10:00] Um, okay, so I can close this out using a little bit of What you just brought up, which is that you couldn’t look it up on the internet, right? Like one thing that one line from that book that I only know from a book review from the Clusterman book is like this, this repeated almost mantra, like the internet was coming, the internet was coming, the internet was coming. [01:10:18] And when I, especially with two teenage boys right now, when I look back on, on that time, you know, the seventies to talk about the seventies, It felt like you could touch the seventies. Right. But it doesn’t feel to me, like, I’d be able to feel like I could touch the early nineties, because that was a completely different fucking world. [01:10:37] From the time you woke up to the time you went to bed, everything you did with your fingers and your eyes was different. Right? Yeah. And I have one other point about that, but I don’t, I don’t want to get in the way I want to hear what you’re [01:10:49] Christina: saying. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I know what I, I want to hear you in that thought. [01:10:53] Oh, I think I was going to add, cause I looked this up just in this complete non-sequitur, uh, Sebastian Bach has apparently, uh, rethought, hit the [01:11:00] homophobic lyrics in, uh, that skid row song and has changed them. And he’s even like walk out of interviews when people have [01:11:05] Brett: What about the aids kills fags, dead shirt. [01:11:10] Christina: That was [01:11:10] the first one. And I, and I think that somebody gave that to him. I think that [01:11:13] Brett: don’t care. He wore it to like an award ceremony. [01:11:17] Christina: I don’t think he wore it. I think, I think, I think that somebody gave it to him and he was photographed with it. I don’t remember the details anyway. I’m not trying to like defend the guy. I’m just saying. [01:11:25] Jeff: That’s interesting in context, right? Because like you, I would hear about that kind of stuff from MTV news. [01:11:30] That’s the only place I’d hear about it. And so if anything changed, MTV news was often not following the beat of Sebastian Bach for more than like six months, you know? And anyway, I wanted to just on a, on a sober note and on, uh, the internet is coming note and on, uh, oh my God. I can’t believe this happened. [01:11:47] Note on March 7th, 1991, the video of Rodney king being bitten, beaten by police was recorded. Another way to say that is on March 7th, 1991, Rodney king was beaten by police. And it just so happened [01:12:00] that a plumbing salesman, an amateur videographer was in view from his balcony and pulled out his camera and recorded it. [01:12:09] And, and for me, I mean, I thought about that a ton when George Floyd would was killed and we were always talking about how what’s changed is that there’s the internet and you can see it. And I’m like, no, man, no, no. We saw [01:12:21] it. This started in [01:12:22] Christina: 91 and that was. [01:12:24] Brett: Right. But everyone was actually watching network news at that [01:12:27] Christina: I know, but I’m saying that it wasn’t just network news. [01:12:29] It was, it was everywhere. It was, it was hard-copy. I remember like, I mean, again, I’m like, I’m like seven years old and I remember watching that and seeing it All over the place. [01:12:40] Jeff: And like, for me, what’s so. Um, what’s so remarkable about it. First of all, I have a photograph. My mom used to go out of town a lot and I would move my drums down into the living room. [01:12:50] So I could watch TV while playing my drums. And I actually have a picture of the beating being aired, um, that you can see my two Toms in the foreground. And then over [01:13:00] that as the TV with the video of, um, king being beaten, it’s just like, and, and, and what’s so incredible to me now is that there was obviously no internet, right. And like you were just saying Christina, like it was on all the TV shows like it hit that kind of international, like attention mark really fast and not, not just when the riots happened. Of course it had it again then, but just the fact of this man being beaten that way and tased that way. In this kind of grainy footage wasn’t enough, even all the way back then with no internet to like really grab the attention of the world. [01:13:35] I mean, it amounted to not a lot, but, but to me, I actually, that is the start of the nineties. Like we, talked a lot about popular culture in the nineties and I think that’s totally appropriate as a way of assessing the decade. For me, it was like the Gulf war. It was, it was Rodney king. It was, you know, it was watching all of these different kind of things play out often in the office. [01:13:59] And [01:14:00] often the commentators were sort of the people who had been radicals in the sixties and seventies. And so it actually kind of like tied all that stuff together. You just saw all these like civil rights leaders that were still alive, but just looked a lot older and kind of, you know, whatever, but it like tied everything together without the internet somehow. [01:14:18] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, I think somehow. [01:14:21] Brett: gotta, we gotta find a split point for this. Jeff, how would you feel about doing the last sponsor read of this episode? [01:14:30] Jeff: Oh, no. Uh, let me look [01:14:33] Brett: like, I feel like you need to earn your keep. [01:14:37] Jeff: Oh, it’s textExpander [01:14:39] Christina: yes. [01:14:40] Brett: us about text expander, Jeff. [01:14:42] Sponsor: TextExpander [01:14:42] Jeff: Oh man. Okay. So I’m reading this blind, but it’s going to be easy to Put my, my, uh, my passion [01:14:48] Brett: spin on it. [01:14:49] Jeff: in our fast paced world. Things change constantly and constantly and errors in messaging often have significant Consequences [01:14:59] Text [01:15:00] expander lets you make new approved messaging available to every team member instantly with just a few key strokes, ensuring your team remains consistent current and accurate. [01:15:10] Get your, get your message right? Every time expand content that corrects your spelling and keeps your language consistent. Oh my God. Do I use this? Uh, with just a few keystrokes keystrokes keystrokes, your team members will always have the right message for the right person at the right time without relying on memory or copy and paste over-tired listeners get 20% off their first year. [01:15:36] If you visit textexpander.com/podcast, to learn more about text expander. Let me read that line again. Cause I was so confused that it said podcast. [01:15:45] Brett: Yeah. W so they used to have individual URLs for every show and they just said, fuck it. And now it’s just text. Even, even when they do sponsor posts on my blog, the link is still text expander.com/podcast.[01:16:00] [01:16:00] Jeff: Let me cell text expander for a second. And then I’ll re I’ll redo that over tire listeners thing. So all of this stuff is great. Keeping your team in line, whatever that stuff is, something that’s kind of become more of, of their messaging in the last couple years I’ve been using this thing forever and ever, and ever since the very beginning. [01:16:19] And the thing that it did for me, that I really noticed when I clean install a computer and have it installed text expander yet is I have a tendency when I capitalize the first letter in a sentence to also capitalize the second one. I also have a tendency to scatter semi-colons where they don’t belong. [01:16:37] Brett: title case while you’re writing. [01:16:39] Jeff: Title case while I’m writing. [01:16:41] Am I an animal? It’s a it’s it’s artisinal, uh, title casing. You know what I mean? Like it’s got that. It’s got, it gives you that kind of connection to the creator, you know? Um, but anyway, you can just, all you have to do, if you only use it for this, just put a long list of All the shit that you spell wrong [01:17:00] that you often like kind of the type as you always, you always make the like places where you always put like an extra something, make them a list so that they’re their own trigger when you type them that way. [01:17:10] And then it automatically corrects it and you don’t look like a jackass overtired listeners get 20% off their first year visit textexpander.com/podcast to learn more about text expander. [01:17:23] Get some sleep, Jeff [01:17:23] Brett: Hey, that was a great episode. You guys know in the next episode next week for everyone, except for us, it’ll be like in five minutes for us. But in the next episode, we will actually introduce Jeff. So people know who the fuck he is [01:17:39] Christina: Yup. [01:17:39] Brett: and, and we will, we will bring you more exciting pop culture. We’ll we’re going to do a little nerd talk and, uh, best, best. [01:17:49] More sponsors and different sponsors. You’re going to love it. Stay tuned in the meantime, get some sleep, Jeff, get some sleep, Christina, [01:17:59] Christina: Get [01:17:59] some [01:18:00] sleep. Jeff, get some [01:18:00] Jeff: sleep, get some sleep y’all [01:18:02] Brett: get some sleep. [01:18:03] Jeff: but only like five minutes. Cause we got to start this episode.

Spotify, Jon Stewart, Tech, and TV. That’s what you came for, right? Sponsor Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Joe Rogan responds to Spotify protest The Problem with Jon Stewart podcast What if I use G-Suite Legacy Free Edition… 9 to 5 Google – G-Suite legacy free edition RonAmadeo on Twitter Single Drunk Female After life Teleport for Mac Barrier Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

With a strong focus on media, this episode covers non-binary understanding to, well, 90-day fiancé. It’s pretty broad ranging. As you might expect. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED Show Links Trekkie vs Trekker Voyager Ken Thompson Queer Eye You Need to Calm Down Dark Side of the 90s Trial by Media Sid and Nancy Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 271 [00:00:00] 20220129 1127 Guest: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra Brett. How are you? [00:00:09] 20220129 1127 Brett: Oh, my God. So good. How are you? [00:00:13] 20220129 1127 Guest: I’m I’m pretty good. So It feels like it’s been forever since we talked, [00:00:17] 20220129 1127 Brett: has been, it’s been a couple of weeks. We, uh, we had been recording on Saturday before the Friday we published and then we had a week off, but then we had a shitty week where we fell behind. Now we’re already recording Saturday the day after we were supposed to publish. So it’s been, it’s been a while. [00:00:37] Yeah. [00:00:38] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. [00:00:39] No, this is what happens like we were doing so well. We were like ahead of the game and, and [00:00:45] 20220129 1127 Brett: had like days to edit. [00:00:47] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. [00:00:47] I know in the. had like a thing last week and I didn’t really have a thing. I just, I was, so I was so tired. Like I genuinely was over tired. I was like tired of the point that I could not record. [00:00:59] I [00:01:00] was like, I cannot do [00:01:00] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. I picked up on that from your text messages. You’re very drowsy text messages. [00:01:06] 20220129 1127 Guest: Like, when you can tell that when someone is tired in text, [00:01:09] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And then we, we rescheduled for mid week and then I got sick, like too sick to sit at a desk. I didn’t actually take a sick day from work. I was able to from a supine position, uh, attend all of my meetings. And the weird thing about work right now is I, I can’t remember the last time we talked, but they, they switched my manager. [00:01:36] I know we talked about that. They’ve assigned me to a bunch of projects that are basically. Not happening. Like there, there they are in, in corporate parlance blocked. And so while everyone assumes that I’m busy with like three projects at once, none of them are moving [00:02:00] and I’m doing my best to pick up like odd jobs from like, Hey, do you need help with this? [00:02:06] I have some in again in corporate parlance, I have some cycles available. Um, I guess [00:02:13] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh my [00:02:14] 20220129 1127 Brett: that’s like tech world corporate parlance, [00:02:17] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. Wow. Yep. [00:02:19] 20220129 1127 Brett: yeah, so I’ll be honest. Despite two sick days, this last week was just fucking easy and I should, I honestly, there’s nothing I can do about it. It’s not like I’m being lazy. [00:02:32] If, if, if my boss hears this, um, I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to be doing. [00:02:38] 20220129 1127 Guest: You are, you’re doing exactly what you’re supposed to do. And it’s like, you’re trying, like, it’s, it’s not your fault that your stuff is blocked. [00:02:46] 20220129 1127 Brett: is a hundred percent not my fault. [00:02:47] 20220129 1127 Guest: So, I mean, Like you have two options, you can continue to work on the blocked stuff that is blocked. And at a certain point [00:02:55] 20220129 1127 Brett: there’s nothing I can do. [00:02:56] 20220129 1127 Guest: do. [00:02:56] Right. [00:02:56] I was going to say like, at a certain point, you’re done like at a [00:03:00] certain point, like if there are blockers, like you can’t go any further. So if you’re not getting instruction to do more than that, and you are actively, which you are like reaching out and trying to get more things done, like, Yeah. I [00:03:13] 20220129 1127 Brett: I’m being a good employee. [00:03:14] 20220129 1127 Guest: you are like, it is not your fault that. [00:03:17] It is bureaucratic as hell. [00:03:19] 20220129 1127 Brett: So do you want to have a, a breadth mental health core? [00:03:22] 20220129 1127 Guest: I do. Let’s have breast mental health corner. [00:03:24] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. So right now I am, if not, if not stable, I’m coming out of a depression. And this last manic episode, I went through a couple of weeks ago now I decided I was done like, okay. So I decided the only difference between now and the last time I was consistently stable for more than a month was the Focalin, which is by far my favorite ADHD stimulant. [00:03:59] It, [00:04:00] it, it works, it just works. And the last thing I was on was Vyvanse, which I’ve been on, on and off for 15 years. Um, and it’s not like after, after a year on it, it feels like it’s not doing anything at all, but. It also wasn’t causing mood swings. And I decided I made the decision. I’ve already contacted my doctor to go back to Vyvanse in the hopes of just finding some kind of workable stability. [00:04:34] Maybe not as effective as I had been, but without the like, cause honestly manic episodes are productive for me for about a day and a half. And then at that point I’ve gone 36 hours without sleep. [00:04:52] 20220129 1127 Guest: Right. [00:04:53] 20220129 1127 Brett: how elevated my mood is or how much energy I have my work suffers. And then that’s [00:05:00] followed by one to three weeks of not wanting to leave the couch. [00:05:05] That’s not productive as much as like, it feels like Focalin is the more effective choice. I, I don’t know, like I’ve considered maybe trying a new stimulant. Um, but I just, I just, I want the, I want the cycle of manic and depressive states to, to add. [00:05:25] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. no, I mean, I think that’s important and I’m glad that you’re, you’re talking to your doctor about that because that is the thing, right? Like it’s, it’s one thing it’s like, okay, that’s awesome that, you know, you have the, that, um, what you may call it that like, Uh, [00:05:39] the focal and seems to work so well, but if it’s not really working and it’s not like, okay, it makes you feel really focused, but you get, you get a couple of days everything being okay, then you have the one manic day where it’s good. [00:05:51] And then you have like the rest of the manic cycle, which, puts you like awake too long, which isn’t helpful. And then you have like the depressive [00:06:00] cycle, which is not helpful for anyone. And then the Focalin is not helping. [00:06:02] 20220129 1127 Brett: which grand total gives me like three actually productive days a month. That’s not, that’s not the sign of effectiveness. [00:06:10] 20220129 1127 Guest: No, it’s not. So it’s like, okay, this, this, this technically better drug really. Isn’t better. That’s [00:06:15] 20220129 1127 Brett: It just feels more like cocaine and I miss cocaine. I’ll be honest. Like it is very much an addict. It’s an addict making the decisions there. This, this drug feels better. Uh, Vyvanse feels nothing like cocaine. Five minutes almost doesn’t feel like anything to me, but, but I think that’s what I need. And I’m being a responsible adult and saying, let’s, let’s do that. [00:06:43] Oh, thanks. [00:06:44] 20220129 1127 Guest: uh, genuinely, like I’m really proud of you because that would be Yeah, Cause you know, and, and that is also like, you were like going against the whole laws of diminishing returns thing, right? Like you are like, actually you’re like recognizing like the sunk cost fallacy. You’re like, Nope. Not doing it. I’m really proud of you. [00:06:59] 20220129 1127 Brett: cost [00:07:00] fallacy. That sounds like an economics term course sodas law of diminishing return. This is, this is giving me flashbacks to microeconomics, which I only pass because of the bell curve. [00:07:11] 20220129 1127 Guest: again, a sunk cost fallacy is the idea where people think that the more like, because you’ve already invested so much money in something you’re going to continue to see it out and you put more money after it. [00:07:21] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. [00:07:22] 20220129 1127 Guest: And, and so you, you wind up wasting more when you should’ve just like backed out, like. [00:07:28] 20220129 1127 Brett: I had a meeting with my financial advisor this week. She, last time I talked to her, I was taking five grand out of my 401k. Because times were desperate. And I had, I felt no choice. And this time I’m like, oh, Hey, I have a $22,000 in savings. And all of my bills are covered. My credit card debt is paid off and she’s like, holy cow. [00:07:57] I’m so proud of you, which is, [00:08:00] I guess, I guess that’s what I’m looking for in life. People to just be proud of me. Oh my God. [00:08:06] 20220129 1127 Guest: awesome. [00:08:07] 20220129 1127 Brett: Totally, totally aside. I did a talk about bunch to a Mac user groups out of Naples [00:08:16] 20220129 1127 Guest: Nice. Like, like, like Naples, Italy, or Naples, Florida. [00:08:20] 20220129 1127 Brett: I think Florida, I’m not even sure. I just know it was the Naples Mac user group. And they asked me to do another talk on tagging. [00:08:29] And I’m kinda, I’m done talking about tagging. Like I’m still a big proponent of tagging, but I, I, I’m just tired of trying to convince people. So I was like, Hey, I have this project that I’m super into called bunch. Why don’t I talk about that? Not realizing, and I should have realized, but not realizing that the median age of this user group is about 110, which I think, which I think is par for like user groups these days. [00:08:59] I [00:09:00] feel like people have other ways. [00:09:02] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. But I just look, this is also, this is in fact Naples, Florida. So this is retirement [00:09:06] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah, for [00:09:07] 20220129 1127 Guest: I like that, that, that, that is not like judgemental. Like that is like, gee, I wish I could be retired. Like I wish I could like be retired [00:09:13] 20220129 1127 Brett: actually, I actually have relatives in Naples. Um, but so, so the zoom, uh, user group meeting starts with 140, 140 people. And by the time I’m done talking, they made me talk for an hour. And by the time I’m done talking, there are 70 people left. I lost half the crowd and the other half, they, I don’t think they meant to CC me on this, but they send out an apology for my talk afterward. [00:09:47] like, Hey, we try to bring on people that you’ll be interested in, but we failed this time. [00:09:53] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh, no, you got time. [00:09:56] You, you, you, you, you got like, uh, Tanya museums. [00:09:59] 20220129 1127 Brett: [00:10:00] Yeah. But they paid me a hundred dollars for the, for the talk, which I’ve never been paid for a, uh, a user group talk before. [00:10:11] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. [00:10:11] 20220129 1127 Brett: So I was like, Hey, thanks for the a hundred dollars. I’m sorry that I bored 70 people enough to walk out. [00:10:20] 20220129 1127 Guest: And another 70 who just didn’t know how to hit the end call button on [00:10:24] 20220129 1127 Brett: I have gotten right. I got, I’ve gotten two people have followed up with me with, with bunch of questions. How do I make this work? So there were two people, one of them, an organizer, but two people who were interested enough to, to try it out. [00:10:43] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. [00:10:43] 20220129 1127 Brett: So two out of 140 that’s, you know, [00:10:48] 20220129 1127 Guest: I mean, [00:10:48] 20220129 1127 Brett: not a great, what, what B RBA [00:10:53] 20220129 1127 Guest: I mean, it’s pretty low, but it’s also considering the audience not awful. Now let me ask you this. [00:11:00] The organizer who sent you this stuff, is this the same organizer that also accidentally CC’d you on the appalling? [00:11:05] 20220129 1127 Brett: it is. [00:11:08] 20220129 1127 Guest: Uh, oh man, I’m not, I’m trying not to laugh the whole, [00:11:16] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was my humor for the week. [00:11:20] 20220129 1127 Guest: I mean, [00:11:20] 20220129 1127 Brett: And oh my God. I stressed out because like, so in my head, I’m presenting this to a bunch of like people who will be interested. They’re like Mac, like automation, people who, who want like the latest and greatest and four weeks, I’m like, how am I going to fill an hour? [00:11:39] Like I don’t, I never talk for an hour. I could never be a professor. I can’t fill an hour. So I ended up, I ended up like sitting down and practicing and just recording my practice and then editing multiple takes of my practice and then [00:12:00] just playing a video over zoom. So I didn’t have to. Stress about it. [00:12:05] And then if, as like, so I was in chat while it was playing and as people ask questions, I could answer them in chat because I wasn’t talking. And it actually worked out really well, uh, and relieve some stress from me. But like I put, I put hours of stress into this meeting that ended up being apologized for, you know what, I’m sorry to, sorry, not sorry. [00:12:33] I did my job. I did exactly what I said it was going to do [00:12:36] 20220129 1127 Guest: No, you did. You, you, you did exactly what you said you were going to do. Look, I’m going to say this. I don’t think anybody can fault you for anything. The only thing you might be like, I would say, like to think about it in the future and I still I’m still at vaulting you, the only thing you might want to think about the future would be, think about Like your audience next time. [00:12:52] 20220129 1127 Brett: well. [00:12:53] 20220129 1127 Guest: more audience, [00:12:54] 20220129 1127 Brett: I said, I didn’t understand what the audience was going to be. The rule [00:13:00] for me moving forward is just don’t do user group talks. [00:13:04] 20220129 1127 Guest: No, I mean, I think you’re right. I think, I think that is a good rule. I, but I’m just saying, I think also in general, cause I’ve made this mistake before, too, where I understood in my mind The audience to be one thing and then realized when I got there that it was a completely different thing. [00:13:18] 20220129 1127 Brett: worst part is I realized it about two days before and there was no going back. [00:13:23] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh, man. I once realized in the room right before I gave my presentation. [00:13:29] 20220129 1127 Brett: Oh, that would be a sinking feeling for [00:13:31] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh, I mean, okay. So I was giving this talk that I was also paid for and I had written the presentation with one audience in mind, and then I realized it was a completely different audience and they were expecting a completely different type of talk. [00:13:45] And I’m seeing the other person who was giving this presentation, who was from the MIT media lab. So of course he has the most beautiful presentation ever. Whereas mine is just some bullshit slide and I’m thinking to myself, I’m like, okay, do I need [00:14:00] to fake a seizure? Do I need to stand up like fall flat on my face and pass out? [00:14:03] Like, what Do I need to do right now? Like, how am I going to get out of this? It ended up working out. I actually ended up getting another gig out of it, but it was one of the most stressful experiences of my life for sure. [00:14:16] 20220129 1127 Brett: do you remember the TNG where, uh, Troy Picard and data were coming back from a symposium and they got stuck in these like time distortions and like, people would just like freeze and then they came back and the enterprise look appear to be under attack from a Romulan ship, but it was like frozen in time. [00:14:40] 20220129 1127 Guest: I don’t, I don’t. we, but tell me more about this, because I [00:14:43] 20220129 1127 Brett: it’s I, the reason I bring it up is they’re describing the symposium to each other and how one of the professors presenting thought the talk was about something entirely [00:15:00] different, but never paused enough for Picard to like, let them know that this isn’t what the symposium is about. [00:15:08] He said it and he’d demonstrate he like did the run-on sentence with no stops so he could demonstrate how the guy was talking. And it was very hypnotic. I only bring this up because I literally just watched this episode this morning and it’s in my mind. [00:15:23] 20220129 1127 Guest: No, but that’s also that’s, but it’s completely on point with what we’re talking about. That is, yup. [00:15:27] 20220129 1127 Brett: weird, weird synchronicity. Huh? [00:15:30] 20220129 1127 Guest: Well, seriously, genuinely. I was going, I’m also thinking, okay. I. [00:15:34] and I admit, I mean, I, I don’t think I’ve ever seen all of TNG, but what I’ve seen of it, I quite liked, but I’m, it was, it was just a little bit before my time. [00:15:43] 20220129 1127 Brett: You’re married to grant [00:15:45] 20220129 1127 Guest: I know. [00:15:46] 20220129 1127 Brett: isn’t grant like a big like star Trek guy. Or am I thinking of Scott McNulty? [00:15:52] 20220129 1127 Guest: thinking it’s got. [00:15:52] 20220129 1127 Brett: of Scott McNulty. Okay. [00:15:55] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. [00:15:56] 20220129 1127 Brett: I, you would not get away with that with Scott [00:15:59] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh, [00:16:00] absolutely not. McNulty [00:16:01] Like who several S T and G and star Trek podcast. No, I was going to say I was like grid, snap, a Trekker or whatever they call them, um, selves. Um, because apparently Trekkie’s a slur. Well, no, no. I think Trekkie’s a slur. [00:16:12] I think they really call themselves trekkers, let us know in the discord. I don’t know. Um, [00:16:18] 20220129 1127 Brett: how I don’t understand how it could be a slur. [00:16:20] 20220129 1127 Guest: don’t think it’s really a slur. I just think that [00:16:22] 20220129 1127 Brett: think they’re all slurs, depending on which side you’re coming at her from [00:16:25] 20220129 1127 Guest: I mean, I think [00:16:26] 20220129 1127 Brett: can like one, one Trekkie can call another Trekkie, a Trekkie. [00:16:30] 20220129 1127 Guest: well, yeah, I mean, I, but I think it’s one of those things where people are like, oh, we’re not really Trekkies like that. That’s just what the media calls [00:16:37] 20220129 1127 Brett: We also like star wars people forget that you can like both [00:16:42] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. Um, so apparently there is like, when I, when I looked at Trekkie versus Trekker, there is like a, uh, There’s a whole Wikipedia. There, there are whole like blog posts about this. So, [00:16:55] 20220129 1127 Brett: I’m to, I’m going to Google that for the show notes. [00:16:58] 20220129 1127 Guest: yeah. Yeah. I was going to say [00:17:00] it at the star Trek at the memory. Alpha Wiki is got a hole anyway. Um, but what I was going to say, I’m like, well, not like a huge truck personally. [00:17:08] I’ve always enjoyed what I’ve seen, but I love that they had like, honestly, when we’re going to be talking about TV in a little bit, but I love that they have like a pretty banal episode, but you know what I mean? Like in terms of a topic, like, that’s like a kind of a, sit-com like, sort of like thing of like, you know, guy like talks like, so monotone so long, you can’t interrupt him. [00:17:28] Like that’s like a pretty traditional trope. I love, they just kind of inserted that in decipher. That’s [00:17:32] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah, it, and it got more interesting, but I will say that, and this will come up again in the future, but my girlfriend was relatively recently diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. And like, and I’ll say at the top, just about all the things I most respect and love about her are symptoms of [00:18:00] autism. So it’s a good pairing, but she also gets easily overwhelmed. [00:18:06] And, uh, the most relaxing show we can watch is star Trek, TNG. And we are almost to the last season. So we’ll be moving into, we’ve been doing this from, we’d been watching a chronological order from, uh, enterprise through original series through TNG, and we’re going to hit, uh, [00:18:30] 20220129 1127 Guest: I guess we’ll go to Voyager. [00:18:31] 20220129 1127 Brett: No, no, no, no. When we started deep space nine, because they coincided and they crossed timelines. [00:18:38] So we’re also watching deep space nine and then Voyager, which I’m looking forward to getting to, because I’ve never seen Voyager. [00:18:46] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. And like people that I like, like, and respect really like [00:18:50] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. Yes. Got McNaulty top of the top of the pile there, uh, had like talks about Voyager. Like it was the [00:19:00] best and I’ve seen all of T and G before. So this is like review for both me and Al, but we are both looking forward to getting to Voyager after, after all the things we’ve heard retroactively. [00:19:13] 20220129 1127 Guest: yeah. Um, I was going to say, I mean, Voyager was the one that was the one that was on UPN, right? [00:19:18] 20220129 1127 Brett: I don’t [00:19:19] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yes, it was. Yeah, it was, I mean, I didn’t need, I was just trying to think of my head. Yeah. it. [00:19:23] ended in 2001. Um, yeah, that, that, uh, Alex, Cranz my good friend. She, she likes so [00:19:34] 20220129 1127 Brett: Which which, okay. So I know I want to come back to this, but have you seen star Trek discovery? [00:19:41] 20220129 1127 Guest: yes, I have. [00:19:42] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. We’re going to talk about that more towards the end of the show in the meantime, last tech TA. No, not last tech type. I have, I have a slew of tech topics, but, um, I, okay. So I, I wrote all these tests [00:20:00] for my little command line utility doing, and they’re not unit tests. [00:20:06] They’re really integration tests and the entire test suite, if you run it in cereal takes about three minutes to complete 279 tests. I’ve written. But I figured out I got better at Ruby and I figured out how to run them in parallel. Uh, so I’ve got it down to about 70 seconds and I built it so that it pops up like a tree view with check boxes and as the tasks complete, it fills him in with a check box and then starts more tests. [00:20:46] So it’s only running so many tests in parallel at once. And as each one finishes, it adds a new thread. It’s beautiful. We don’t need to talk about it extensively. I’m just very proud of it. [00:20:58] 20220129 1127 Guest: That’s pretty great. [00:21:00] [00:21:00] 20220129 1127 Brett: I should show you. I should show you, um, how hard would it be for me to share my screen over Skype? Yeah, I’ll I’ll do this another time. It’s beautiful though. It’s really cool. Looking. I used a Ruby lot, a Ruby library called T T Y a TTY. Progress bar, maybe. I don’t know, but it’s all, it’s all part of this Ruby library called TTY and [00:21:26] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh, I’m seeing, oh, I’m seeing this as a TTY toolkit. Um, okay. Okay. This is, this goes on my list because I’ve recently become obsessed with like Tys and I found like, um, there’s, uh, there’s rich, which is a Python one, and there’s a spectrum console, which is a, uh, a C-sharp one. And there is, um, uh, charm, which is actually very cool, which is like Elm. [00:21:54] Um, and uh, now I know about a TTY [00:22:00] toolkit, which is Ruby. [00:22:01] 20220129 1127 Brett: I was reading an article about what programming languages not to learn and what to learn instead. And it started off strong. Like don’t learn objective C, learn swift, make sense. Like number three, they got to don’t learn HTML, CSS learned JavaScript instead, which I feel like you cannot create. Even, you cannot create a react application without understanding HTML and CSS. [00:22:32] 20220129 1127 Guest: Correct. [00:22:33] 20220129 1127 Brett: If for any web developer, for anyone who would have a need for any of these languages, uh, a basic understanding of HTML and CSS, absolutely vital. Like, I don’t understand how you would skip over and just learn JavaScript. [00:22:51] 20220129 1127 Guest: We’ll wait. And it’s weird. I mean, I guess like tailwinds is, You, know, one of the things that I guess people do, um, you know, I don’t know how familiar you, are with, with, with the [00:23:00] tailwind CSS. Um, [00:23:02] 20220129 1127 Brett: you act. I believe we’d want that before. [00:23:04] 20220129 1127 Guest: yeah. Um, I mean, cause that basically kind of lets you, you know, build, Um, [00:23:09] although you do use HTML with it, but it is kind of the, the way that it works is that it has a lot of components to make some of the CSS aspects step a little bit easier, but you still need to have an understanding of, of what you’re doing. [00:23:24] You know, it just, it just maybe makes it a little more, you know, like react like, um, and, and, um, a little more modular and some of your layout stuff. I, yeah, that’s such a weird that, like, you know what that reads to me that reads to me like that was an article that was written by someone who’s never programmed anything. [00:23:40] 20220129 1127 Brett: it, it read to me like someone who was reading an article to get clicks. They suggested that instead of learning C you learn Ruby, I can understand, not learning. See, like, I feel [00:23:53] 20220129 1127 Guest: but then you would you, but then you would learn, go [00:23:55] 20220129 1127 Brett: right. Or rust. Exactly, exactly. [00:24:00] Like nobody at this point. And, and this is coming from a guy who. Lives in Ruby. Nobody at this point should be learning Ruby instead of something else. [00:24:12] Ruby is, as far as I can tell a dead language, like as far as the modern sands of time, Ruby is not what anyone should be learning. You would be better off learning C than Ruby that said, yeah, learn Russ, learn scaler, like learn something like currently vital. [00:24:35] 20220129 1127 Guest: No, totally learn, learn, learn, go. Which was. Created in part to replace C you know, I mean like, um, uh, obviously I think Russ would be better. I agree with you if, if we’re just talking about those things, but also, I mean, in general, cause people always ask this question. My answers are usually JavaScript and Python for like, you know, just most, you know, maximum viability, but learn what the team that you’re working on or [00:25:00] the project that you’re like doing needs, you know, like learn one and then adapt based on, on, on what the team you’re working on is. [00:25:09] 20220129 1127 Brett: I have a friend, Jesse Atkinson, great guy almost hired him for AOL. Like we did hire him and then they fucking change the rules on us. But anyway, he got his current job with a dedication to learn a language. He didn’t know, he basically signed up for a job. I think it was scaler that he, he, he hadn’t used before, but he was determined to learn. [00:25:38] So he, he applied for a job that required that language and he got the job [00:25:46] 20220129 1127 Guest: Wow. [00:25:47] 20220129 1127 Brett: and, and he learned the language. That is, yes, that is the sign of a young program. [00:25:54] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. I was going to say that well, that is decided like somebody like young, some news the time somebody who like the, the still has [00:26:00] like the love and isn’t like [00:26:01] 20220129 1127 Brett: And the brain plasticity. I, I worry in my older age that I won’t be able to continue learning new languages. [00:26:10] 20220129 1127 Guest: Uh, I think you will. [00:26:11] 20220129 1127 Brett: I hope [00:26:12] 20220129 1127 Guest: you will. I mean, again, I mean, again, like, like I, I think that when you look at, um, yeah, like I think that a lot of times people think, oh, well, you know, you get older, you, you can’t learn new things and whatnot. I don’t think it’s you can’t. I think that is about mindset. It’s like, do you want to, or not? [00:26:29] I think that it’s a lot of people who for very good reasons are like, I have too many other things going on and I don’t want to go through all this again, you know, but, but some people like me and I think you’re the same way. I actually enjoy learning new things. [00:26:43] 20220129 1127 Brett: Well, sure. Yeah. Like, and to be fair, I have learned more about Ruby in the last year than I’ve known in 20 years of using it. And like, it’s fascinating to me to learn. Like, I didn’t know how to use Proxin Lambdas [00:27:00] until this year. And I’ve been using Ruby since 2000, so like I enjoy learning new things and I enjoy learning new languages to see how they handle the same thing. [00:27:15] But I do feel like I’m hitting like a diminishing returns. [00:27:21] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. I mean, you might be hitting the diminishing returns. [00:27:23] thing. That’s not quite the same thing. And I will say this and obviously, you know, Ken Thompson is like the goat and it is a very unique case, but he’s like 80 or almost 80. And, and he, you know, was one of the creators of, of go as well. Right. So, which means that he was creating that. [00:27:44] A decade old. So like, you know, when he was working on it in his seventies, [00:27:49] 20220129 1127 Brett: Wait go is a decade old. [00:27:51] 20220129 1127 Guest: I think so, [00:27:52] 20220129 1127 Brett: feel like I just heard about goat go about three years ago. [00:27:56] 20220129 1127 Guest: uh, first appeared November 10th, 2009. Yeah. [00:27:59] 20220129 1127 Brett: [00:28:00] Damn I, somebody is not keeping up with shit. [00:28:04] 20220129 1127 Guest: So, so like, I’m just saying like, so, so he was clearly, he was like, because he had been working on it, you know, at, you know, Google cause he co-developed the, the programming language. So, uh, into his seventies, I don’t know. That’s pretty exciting to me, just That somebody, you know what I mean? Like, like that, even if we all can’t be Ken Thompson’s like, cause of course we can’t, but that’s one of those things that like excites me Cause I’m like, shit, dude, like this guy is still doing it. Like our, our, our, our, our, our Unix godfather is still fucking creating stuff, you know? [00:28:34] 20220129 1127 Brett: hope. [00:28:35] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. So I have I’ve I’ve absolutely no. No doubt that like, as long as you want to continue learning and, and, um, getting better at things, you will, I’ve no doubt about that at all. [00:28:46] 20220129 1127 Brett: All right. Last tech topic, before we get to some, some great TV. [00:28:51] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yes. [00:28:53] 20220129 1127 Brett: I, so I needed to install a certain or Oracle application on [00:29:00] my Mac mini. To be able to do my job. So I, in order to do so I had to install, um, they’re kind of like it’s called my desktop and it is the interface through which you install Oracle software. [00:29:18] I installed it. I installed the one piece of software I needed eventually had to do a reboot as we’ve talked about before on my Mac mini. And it came up with a lock screen that said, this machine is the property of Oracle. And I said, no. And I immediately uninstalled all that shit. And I cannot figure out how to change my lock screen. [00:29:42] But now, now I’m getting non-compliance warnings from Oracle saying this machine does not have like whatever antivirus software installed. [00:29:54] 20220129 1127 Guest: right. [00:29:55] 20220129 1127 Brett: If I go to remove the machine from my [00:30:00] Oracle registered personal machines, it wants me to return the machine to Oracle. Like it wants to print out a fucking RMA for me to return my personal computer, to my employer who did not buy my personal [00:30:16] 20220129 1127 Guest: right. Because you installed something on it. Nan MDMs are so screwed. Have you figured out any solution for this [00:30:23] 20220129 1127 Brett: I, well, my solution was to ignore it. And then my manager said, Hey, I’m getting notifications that you have a non-compliant machine. And to be like, I don’t need to run any Oracle software to do my job. And if I could just unregistered. I, I would be done. Like I don’t need their software to do my job. [00:30:53] And I have an Oracle laptop that works for accessing everything I need [00:31:00] to from their machine that I will happily return to them if the time comes. I, I don’t, I know, I don’t know what to do. I have to go through tech support. [00:31:12] 20220129 1127 Guest: was going to say, you probably have to unfortunately file a ticket and conduct tech support. I had a similar issue. It was different and my manager certainly wasn’t involved, but I accidentally. When I had that Dell laptop for like two [00:31:25] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:26] 20220129 1127 Guest: I accidentally provisioned it as a work device, which means that in the MDM, it shows up as like a work owned machine. [00:31:35] And then I can’t remove it because it shows that it’s belong to Microsoft. And clearly it wasn’t, it was my own personal thing. So it was, I’m not getting any sort of, I mean, and not using the device. So like it’s not giving me any, you know, um, uh, stuff or whatnot, but like, I don’t have the machine anymore, but it’s still in my account. [00:31:51] So I have to file a ticket and follow up. I did file a ticket and then I just didn’t follow up on it. Cause I didn’t want, I didn’t care, um, to like get them to manually remove [00:32:00] it. But I imagine that you’ll have to go through a similar tech support song and dance where you’ll have to reach out to tech support, file a ticket, and they will have to manually remove the machine from, you know, the database, uh, no pun intended there, Oracle, uh, so that you don’t get those so that you don’t get those, uh, messages. [00:32:23] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. Anyway, you know, what would be a good transition between like tech talk and TV talk [00:32:32] 20220129 1127 Guest: uh, Zoc doc, [00:32:33] 20220129 1127 Brett: a sponsor break. Yeah. [00:32:35] 20220129 1127 Guest: I think so. I think so. All right. So while you’re a kind of a, you know, we were talking about mental health, we were talking about a Brett you’re feeling a little bit down now, or think we’re going to talk about some of the TV you watched while you were feeling down. If you’re, uh, needing a doctor Zoc doc is for you. [00:32:53] So has this ever happened to you before? Uh, you need to see a. And you’re searching to find one that looks good. [00:33:00] You’re waiting on hold to book the appointment, you’re rearranging your schedule. And then you finally go to the doctor and it turns out they don’t take your insurance, which is completely frustrating, but there is a solution just download the free Zoc doc app, the easiest way to find a great doctor and instantly book an appointment. [00:33:20] So with doc doc, you can search for local doctors who take your insurance, which is key. You can read, verify patient reviews, book an appointment. You can do in-person or video chat, which is really handy. And you never have to wait on hold with the receptionist. Again, I have used Zoc doc for more than a decade. Yeah. [00:33:36] Far and away my favorite place, uh, to find a doctor, especially with different specialties. If you’re like looking for a primary care physician or a dentist or dermatologist or an eye doctor or something else, Zoc doc has you covered. And like I said, you can know instantly when you’re booking the appointment, which you’re booking in the app that they take your insurance, which is great. [00:33:56] So go to Zoc doc.com/overtired [00:34:00] and download the Zoc doc app for signup, uh, or to sign up for free every month. Millions of people use doc doc. I’m one of them, as I said, it is my go-to. Whenever I need to see the doctor Zoc doc makes health care easy. So now it’s time to prioritize your health new year go-to Zoc doc.com/ over-tired and download these doc doc app to sign up for a free sign up for free and book a top rated doctor many are available as soon as today, that is Z O C doc.com/. [00:34:34] 20220129 1127 Brett: That’s a fantastic read, Christina. [00:34:37] 20220129 1127 Guest: Thank you, Brett. Appreciate it fell a little rusty, but I felt like I was coming back into it. [00:34:41] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. [00:34:41] 20220129 1127 Guest: So, uh, [00:34:43] 20220129 1127 Brett: a couple of weeks [00:34:43] 20220129 1127 Guest: after couple weeks off, [00:34:44] Yeah, no, it’s good. Um, so we were texting before our various like, delays about TV and I’m like looking at your list and we’ve got a, I’m very excited this cause we have a lot of TV to talk about. [00:34:56] So where do you wanna start? [00:34:58] 20220129 1127 Brett: so, okay. First of [00:35:00] all, queer query. [00:35:01] 20220129 1127 Guest: So. [00:35:02] 20220129 1127 Brett: It is. And season six, I like the latest season. I found that going through it. Uh, we were constantly pausing because it brought up conversation topics, and we’d pause. And we talk about these things that had happened to us or that we thought, or that we believed. And, and then continue on with the show and it became this super interactive TV for us. [00:35:30] We finished season six and we’re like, well, shit, that was great. Let’s go back in the catalog. Season five has not seemed to have that same effect. I feel like season six is, is exceptional and better than preceding seasons. Have you watched enough [00:35:55] 20220129 1127 Guest: I have, I have an, I don’t know, I do feel like season six was the best. I [00:36:00] don’t know. It’s like So much better. I feel like sometimes these shows do kind of ebb and flow based on, you know, the casting and, and like the, you know, the, the make-over contestants and stuff, you know, that they can choose and pick. [00:36:13] Um, and I feel like everybody really jelled with season six, I did feel like the first season was really strong. [00:36:19] 20220129 1127 Brett: in season. Okay. I will go back to the first season in season five. They go and make over a New Jersey, like a Jersey shore DJ. And I cannot give a fuck about that. I didn’t even, I got about 15 minutes into the episode and I just did not care. Season six, I cared about just about every episode. I’m like, yes, I want to see this person’s transformation. [00:36:51] I want to see where it goes. I don’t care about Jersey shore, DJ. I just don’t.[00:37:00] [00:37:00] 20220129 1127 Guest: No. And, well, that’s the thing, Right, Is that it’s difficult. Like the first season was all Atlanta or it was all Georgia, I guess. And like, um, the first couple of seasons where I guess, cause they were, you know, they got the tax credits there. And so, uh, so, so that, um, uh, I was just hysterical that my home state has become like, everything is filmed in Georgia and I see stuff and I’m like, that’s not fucking wherever that’s Georgia. [00:37:22] And I’m just like, God damn like, and it’s funny too, because it all really started right. [00:37:27] after I left. And I used to have like good contacts with the film and television, like commission there. And uh, and, and so I’m still on some of their press listings. And like it got when I had to like unsubscribe or create a filter or something because the number of project emails that I was getting like alerts for stuff like filming, cause it back in the day it was. [00:37:45] A big deal of like one or two things were phone there. And then it was like the entire industry mood we [00:37:50] 20220129 1127 Brett: And then you’re like, that’s not Paris. That’s Savannah, [00:37:53] 20220129 1127 Guest: exactly, exactly. Like that is not terrorist. That is, that is, that is Savannah. Yeah. Or you see others, [00:38:00] like, like that’s not Los Angeles. What the fuck are you even talking about? That’s like, that’s 85. [00:38:06] That’s not the 4 0 5. That’s 85. [00:38:08] 20220129 1127 Brett: Hey, if that’s what it takes to get a good film made. That’s one thing I’m cool with it. [00:38:13] 20220129 1127 Guest: I agree. In many cases, I think they’re just people being cheap asses. Um, uh, although again, and I’ve said this before mad, mad props to, uh, Tyler Perry, who has been the one who’s beat out the best in all of this by owning all the fucking studios and renting them out to people like you go like the house that Medea built, like grant a grant, loves those movies. [00:38:35] And, and even he doesn’t know why cause they’re terrible, but we love Tyler Perry. And, uh, and, and like, I’m very proud of Tyler Perry anyway. Um, But this is a good point because with these shows, I agree with, I think season six, you care a lot, but this is a good show. Like obviously the cast on queer eye is great, but this points out casting is so important for these other types of reality shows. [00:38:56] Like you have to have really compelling people [00:39:00] and that’s hard to do because sometimes you really nail it. And sometimes you, you don’t, you know, and so, um, I, okay. This is not a good show. Like queer eye is genuinely a good show for anybody in the audience listening. Like it’s honestly, it’s genuinely heartwarming and it’s a good show. [00:39:14] Like it’s that the cast is great. We’ve talked about it before. Like it’s one of those things that makes you feel good about humanity. And in at least in my opinion, like as like queer eye in like Ted lasso or like the things that give me hope in this world. Um, but. Uh, a show that the polar opposite of this, except that it’s also very dependent on casting in terms of my enjoyment is 90 day fiance, which is a complete trash heap of just trash, but there are some seasons and some casts, some couples that are better than others. [00:39:43] Um, how familiar are you with 90 day fiance? [00:39:46] 20220129 1127 Brett: Absolutely. Let’s see what, what is zero minus zero? [00:39:52] 20220129 1127 Guest: So the premise is, and you would hate this show, uh, uh, you, you would absolutely hate it. [00:39:57] 20220129 1127 Brett: has always been my assumption. [00:39:59] 20220129 1127 Guest: Uh, but, [00:40:00] uh, but there are things that grant and I quite enjoy it. Uh, it, it, it, it, it’s no love after lockup, but it, well, actually, in some cases it’s better, but which is another parable trash show. The whole idea is that there are like these, they there’s a provision where if you marry someone who’s from another country, they can get a provisional, like visa to become, you know, to get into the United States. [00:40:23] Um, GreenGuard basically, so that the, basically the promise of the show is these are people who’ve met online. Usually. Um, sometimes they’ve met on vacation, other places, they have 90 days to get married, cause the person can be in the United States for 90 days. And then they got to get married and it like Chronicles their whole process of, of oftentimes like the, the interesting ones are really like the, we met on vacation and we were totally in love. [00:40:46] And then now we’re actually living together and this person’s in a completely different country and we hate each other. Um, those are interesting. [00:40:53] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. I could see this premise going either way [00:40:55] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. And, and then also sometimes the, the, the premise is like, oh, [00:41:00] she’s a straight up like, uh, like, like, um, w what what’s, what’s the term, um, uh, catalog, like, like white, you know what I mean? [00:41:07] Like, I like you straight up, like, paid for this person, male. Thank you. Thank you. This is a straight middle order relationship, right? Like there’s some of those cases where like the woman, cause it is usually a woman who is not exclusively, but, but usually, um, sometimes you have, you have men too, but, but it’s, it’s primarily women. [00:41:25] Um, just because of the nature of how this thing works, um, who are like straight up grifting, these dudes, um, and like clearly just want to get in the car. Um, but you’re not totally sympathetic to the dudes. Cause the dudes oftentimes are just as terrible. Like they clearly like, just like, couldn’t find anyone in the United States to fuck them. [00:41:43] So they had to like do a mail order. [00:41:46] thing and then expect, oh, because I’m bringing into this country, like you should really like me. And you know, a lot of times when we’re like, no, and then you have sometimes the really fun cases where like, you have actually feel bad for the people from out of the [00:42:00] country because they’ve been completely misled. [00:42:01] Like there’s this one season where there’s this guy who, um, she actually had a really nice life in the Philippines. Like her parents were pretty well off and like she had things going on and um, he made himself out to be like, he had his shit together and had all these businesses and he was, you know, it is in his fifties I think. [00:42:20] And, and like wealthy, no, uh, dude lives with his, uh, adult daughter in like a two bedroom, like a rundown apartment. And they have to live together because he relies on her for rent. It’s not one of those things where he’s like supporting her. Like he needs her half of the rent to be able to like live and like, you know, uh, completely misled this woman about like what his lifestyle was. [00:42:46] And then she like gets to the United States and she’s like, I’m sorry, what? Like, so, so, um, so it can be really compelling, but the thing is, is that it’s all about the cast. It’s all about like, who are the people, the bachelors the same way. Like, it really all [00:43:00] depends on like how good of a Abbott cast you have and how much do you care about their stories? [00:43:04] And so I agree with what you’re saying. Like, I haven’t watched season five of, of queer eye in a while. Um, I’ll have to go back, but, um, cause it was, it was 2020, and that was just, I mean that whole year is a blur, but, um, and it was like 18 months between seasons. Um, so, um, I, but yeah, I, uh, [00:43:27] 20220129 1127 Brett: of cast though. Okay. So I know almost everybody’s name on query at this point, at least current cast members, [00:43:37] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yes, [00:43:38] 20220129 1127 Brett: but I do not know the non-binary persons name, [00:43:43] 20220129 1127 Guest: Jonathan van ness. [00:43:44] 20220129 1127 Brett: Jonathan, [00:43:46] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. [00:43:47] 20220129 1127 Brett: out of like no member of that cast makes me feel weird except for Jonathan and season five of Jonathan does not make me feel weird. [00:43:59] And this [00:44:00] is like, I’m, I’m, I’m exploring my own prejudices here, [00:44:05] 20220129 1127 Guest: Right, [00:44:05] 20220129 1127 Brett: but season six, they start wearing boxy dresses. [00:44:12] 20220129 1127 Guest: right. Well, I think that, that was when they came out as non-binary. [00:44:19] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. It’s something about that. Boxy dress causes weird feelings in me, and I can not explain them. Like they’re weird feelings that border on what they’re just confusion. Like I want that person to be in like pre prior to that they were wearing like crop tops. And, and that was that didn’t, that didn’t cause any reaction in me, something about the boxy dresses causes weird reactions to me and I can not explain them. [00:44:53] And they, I it’s uncomfortable feeling like there must be something bigoted [00:45:00] about how I’m feeling. But to be fair, a woman or a man in that same dress would also make me uncomfortable. I don’t, I think I’m bigoted against boxy dresses. [00:45:15] 20220129 1127 Guest: was going to say, I think maybe you just don’t like what they’re wearing, like, which is, which is fair. Like maybe you just like, like, and maybe the person you’re really mad at. Um, and I was wrong on this. I want, I, I want to crack this cause I’m Googling in real time. Uh, um, uh, Jonathan Mendez came out as nonbinary in 2019. [00:45:31] So, um, earlier in this show is run. So, um, but maybe like, you’re just like bigoted towards like the costume designer, right? Like you just don’t like what they chose to wear, which is fair. I mean, like, honestly, that’s also the mark of, I mean, Cause sometimes. And here’s the thing too. I know that, that the, the, the, the fab five, like, are supposed to be known for, you know, their, their fashion sense and whatnot, but not everybody gets it right. [00:45:56] All the time. Also, I’ve known plenty of, um, [00:46:00] stylists who have fantastic style for others, but my personal opinion is that they look like hot, garbage. Like, I don’t like the things they wear. I will, I will, I will say this. I’m going to get so much shit for this, but the most famous, um, um, like, uh, like costume designer, I think probably living today is, uh, Patricia field and Patricia field has fantastic style. [00:46:23] So, so she does, she, she, Okay. [00:46:25] So she did the costumes and the clothing for the original. [00:46:30] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay, [00:46:31] 20220129 1127 Guest: Um, and which is, you know, like was just fabulous. Uh, even when people would be like, what does Carrie wearing? You were talking about what Carrie was wearing. She’s not doing it on the revival because she’s doing Emily and Paris. [00:46:43] Um, and Emily in Paris also has very good clothes. Um, and so I, um, [00:46:49] 20220129 1127 Brett: which is, which is ironic because that show is basically designed for reading or phone while watching [00:46:55] 20220129 1127 Guest: 1000% it is completely designed for that, but the clothes there are great. [00:47:00] And, and she does a great job with it. And, and Darren star who created both sex and city and Emily and Paris, but anyway, um, and Patricia field had like a very famous store in New York, uh, that, uh, no longer existed. I think by the time I was there, but like was very famous in the nineties is like the cool spot anyway, like her fashion sense and the way that she styles that is impeccable. [00:47:20] But when I look at what she personally wears. I don’t, I, I’m not a fan. Like, I’m not going to say it’s like complete garbage, but it’s just like, I’m not a fan. So, so maybe that’s, so sometimes I feel like even if that is your own thing, so, so my whole thing is like, I would want a different costumer or stylist for Patricia field. [00:47:38] If I were to see her like acting as [00:47:42] 20220129 1127 Brett: Well, yeah, like Jonathan, Jonathan needs someone to do their [00:47:46] 20220129 1127 Guest: that’s what I’m saying, that’s what I’m saying. They need someone to, to, to do their styling. Right. Um, actually, okay. The more I’m thinking about this, Patricia feels probably a bad example. She’s so eclectic. I probably wouldn’t want to style her, but I can say I’m not a fan of what she wears, [00:48:00] but, um, but, but there is a weird disconnect is like, I would see like what she would wear and then you see what she styles and know. [00:48:06] This doesn’t correlate. Right. Um, which is fair, right? Because like, that’s like what you might personally want to do something with like, not everybody is going to be completely on it. You know what I mean? But, but that, Yeah, [00:48:17] so I think you just have a thing against, uh, whoever is styling and costuming, uh, Jonathan, um, rather than, than, than being, you know, like an NB phobe, [00:48:27] 20220129 1127 Brett: that makes me feel better because I have, I have, I am more nonbinary friends than I have trans friends and it, it has, it has blown me away. How many trans friends I have, how many people that I knew one way had become another way. And like, that is better. It’s honestly, it’s been exciting to see people becoming them, their true selves. [00:48:54] And I have never had a problem with someone calling themselves non-binary because like, [00:49:00] I can relate, I get it. Like, I I’ve been beaten up for not being male enough. And I like, I have associated with female characteristics enough that I get how you could say, I don’t want to be either. I am, I am neither of these things. [00:49:19] I don’t associate strongly with one or the other and it’s made me feel really weird to be so annoyed by Jonathan’s character. [00:49:32] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah. I think, I think you, you just don’t like what they’re wearing [00:49:35] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah. [00:49:36] 20220129 1127 Guest: also, Jonathan, Jonathan, at this point is probably the most famous, so I would have to [00:49:42] 20220129 1127 Brett: tan would be the most famous [00:49:44] 20220129 1127 Guest: no, I mean, in terms of he is awesome. [00:49:46] but I’m talking like in terms of pop culture, I’m talking, I’m talking in terms of like, like, like outside of like this. [00:49:53] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. [00:49:54] 20220129 1127 Guest: Like Jonathan was in a Taylor swift video. [00:49:56] 20220129 1127 Brett: Really? Which video? [00:49:59] 20220129 1127 Guest: You need to [00:50:00] calm down the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, uh, the queer Anthem. [00:50:04] 20220129 1127 Brett: I will admit I’ve never seen this video, so I’m going to add that to the show notes and then go look at it. [00:50:10] 20220129 1127 Guest: it’s not my favorite. Um, but, uh, a lot of people were really into it, but, but, um, uh, there are some, um, some, um, um, some drag Queens in it, too. Um, um, um, Todrick hall, who’s her, uh, her who’s, her gay BFF is in it. [00:50:24] Um, it’s a, it also includes like at the end, a reconciliation with her and Katy Perry, is interesting. Anyway, um, you can watch it, like, there’s some interesting things, like it’s very campy, it’s a very, very campy video. Um, I’ll be honest. It’s really a Kacey Musgraves video done by Taylor swift, which is weird, but it, it, um, that whole album lover is, uh, Especially now that we’ve had like the trifecta of folklore evermore and the red rereleased, I realized there was a fearless [00:51:00] rerelease in between those things in that mix too. [00:51:03] But I’m not talking about that right now. When we have like that trifecta of like three, like perfect albums. I, we talked about how we were going to do a ranking of Taylor swift albums, uh, not going to do it. [00:51:13] now, but, but I think about it, like, I really liked lover when it came out and there are still some songs on it that are high on my list. What it given, like what we got after. I, it, that that’s I think it’s, I, yeah, I think it’s one of her weaker ones. I have to say, even though some of the individual songs are really good. Yeah. [00:51:35] 20220129 1127 Brett: You’d be amazed how much I don’t care, [00:51:38] 20220129 1127 Guest: I know. I know you don’t, but. [00:51:40] but like, but, but, but, but, but folklore, evermore, like the red rerelease, all good shit. [00:51:47] And you liked both folklore and evermore. [00:51:49] 20220129 1127 Brett: It’s it’s true. I liked, uh, shit. Okay. I’ve already forgotten the name of like every Taylor swift album. [00:51:59] 20220129 1127 Guest: [00:52:00] Totally, [00:52:00] 20220129 1127 Brett: What was the first one? She recorded [00:52:03] 20220129 1127 Guest: uh, fearless. [00:52:04] 20220129 1127 Brett: fearless. I liked fearless. [00:52:06] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yeah, that’s a good album. It’s a good album. Um, [00:52:10] 20220129 1127 Brett: version [00:52:11] 20220129 1127 Guest: yes. [00:52:12] 20220129 1127 Brett: because I support the idea of, of sticking it to big machine and whatever came after. [00:52:18] 20220129 1127 Guest: Yup, yup. Yup. Fuck those guys. Totally. Okay. Anyway, All right. [00:52:24] 20220129 1127 Brett: I got to mention one show before we get to some, both good and bad TV. [00:52:30] Oh shit. We only have eight minutes left. [00:52:32] 20220129 1127 Guest: we can go a little long. [00:52:33] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. Um, there’s this [00:52:37] 20220129 1127 Guest: been a few weeks. Let’s just go along. [00:52:38] 20220129 1127 Brett: there’s a show called the dark side of the nineties, narrated by mark McGrath, which adds up. I’m not going to lie. Like I wouldn’t have chosen him, but if I was going to do a show about the dark side of the nineties, I would choose mark McGrath. [00:52:57] And during my little sick [00:53:00] days last week, I watched a few episodes. Oh my God. [00:53:05] 20220129 1127 Guest: I would still fuck him. I’m sorry. The sugar Ray guy is still really hot. Um, and look, if it looks, if any, I’m just saying, if any guy was going to go from being like the lead of like an alt rock band to being the host of extra, you knew it was going to be him. [00:53:19] 20220129 1127 Brett: I guess I, so I like guys, like I I’m pansexual. Um, I, I, I understand what’s attractive about males and I cannot agree with you on this. [00:53:33] 20220129 1127 Guest: I don’t understand how you, can’t not find like at his peak. I’m not saying like some of like the, the, the, like he’s had a little too much plastic surgery and I’m not saying. [00:53:42] 20220129 1127 Brett: I think I need personality. [00:53:45] 20220129 1127 Guest: He has personality though. I’m just thinking, Okay. [00:53:47] And actually I’m taking this back now. I still, I would not fuck him now. He’s had too much plastic surgery. It is, he, he is not on my like fuck list, but when I think back about like sugar Ray, mark McGrath, like, like [00:54:00] when I think about like like late nineties, mark McGrath, like, [00:54:03] 20220129 1127 Brett: like sugar? Ray’s music though. [00:54:06] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. I did, [00:54:07] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. Okay. That explains everything. Like if you can stomach the music, I can understand accepting the, [00:54:16] 20220129 1127 Guest: kind of liked the music, [00:54:17] 20220129 1127 Brett: characteristics of [00:54:18] 20220129 1127 Guest: but I kind of, but I’m going to be completely honest with you. I kind of liked the music at least initially, because I thought he was super fucking hot in the, um, the, the fly video. I was like 13. [00:54:32] 20220129 1127 Brett: I can’t, I can’t do it like bad music is bad music to me. [00:54:36] 20220129 1127 Guest: Um, Okay. So I will say this, I did love, so they had like the huge hit with, with, um, with fly, which was the rest of the music had been nothing like that. And then fly was a huge hit. And then they came out with another album. I have to give them credit for this. Also, he was like, I think the all time champion on rock and roll jeopardy guy actually has a lot of like music knowledge. [00:54:58] But anyway, [00:55:00] we’ll talk about dark side of the nineties in a second, but that the second that their, their, their third album meet with for That I don’t know what it was called, but I don’t remember what number it was, but I will say this, this was pretty fucking brilliant. They’d had this big hit and everybody told them, well, you’re 15 minutes of fame is. [00:55:13] going to be up soon. [00:55:14] So they name their album 1459, and then it had like six top 10 hits. So for that alone, I’m sorry. That’s fucking awesome. Like, everybody wrote them off as like a one hit wonder, and then they came back with like an album that. Just like, literally like one of the best-selling like rock albums for like two years in a row. [00:55:36] 20220129 1127 Brett: Uh, I’ll give you that I will 1459. That is hilarious. [00:55:41] 20220129 1127 Guest: Right. So, so, okay. So he is too, but anyway, let’s talk about, let’s talk about dark side of the nineties. [00:55:47] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. So it opens up with, uh, a review of a trash TV, like Jerry Springer and Ricky lake. And he, and, and I forgot about it, but Oprah at [00:56:00] the time, [00:56:00] 20220129 1127 Guest: yeah. Oh [00:56:01] 20220129 1127 Brett: totally forgot Oprah was ever trashed [00:56:04] 20220129 1127 Guest: Oh, 100% because she was following Donahue’s footsteps and Donahue went in [00:56:09] 20220129 1127 Brett: was Jerry Springer for a while? [00:56:12] 20220129 1127 Guest: They were doing more issues oriented, but no early Oprah, like early nineties, Oprah was trashed before she like went to like pivoted to wellness and, and, um, uh, like more like celebrity kind of stuff and whatnot. [00:56:23] She was just really good at. Like she just elevated it. Like that is the amazing thing about Oprah. Like she, she took this trashy shit, but she elevated it to another level because Oprah is like fucking incredible as an interviewer, [00:56:35] 20220129 1127 Brett: So here’s what I love about dark side of the nineties is they, they interview people who kind of hate each other and they allow the story story to be presented by people who don’t agree necessarily on the events that happen. And they do a really good job [00:57:00] of kind of, this is, these are the key players in this shit that happened in the nineties. [00:57:07] And here’s why they hate each other. And I watched the one on trash TV. I watched the one on grunge rock, which was really good. And I watched the one on Pamela Anderson and Baywatch and yeah, it’s fascinating stuff. I honestly like this is my high school years. Like this is the, the period of pop culture that I was most aware of pop culture, as much as I pretended to hate it. [00:57:40] Like I was, I was around for all of [00:57:43] 20220129 1127 Guest: and you’re still a consumer of it. So this. [00:57:44] is what makes me sad. Um, and I thought about this when I bought what washed with this, and then there was another one, like there was one on Netflix that covered some of the biggest media, um, I guess, um, uh, trials like trial by media. I think it was called. [00:57:58] And like, one of them was The Jenny [00:58:00] Jones, um, uh, the murder that happened again. Um, and then like, there were some other like, uh, uh, things that were not all of them were from the nineties, but there, there were some similar kind of crossover, I guess, but some of the stuff travel media, that’s what it’s called. [00:58:14] And it’s, um, a, um, a Netflix documentary series. Um, and, um, the, uh, But like what both of those have made me think about, but especially dark side of the nineties. Now you didn’t watch these because you were pretending that you’re too good for pop culture then. Um, but, um, VH1 behind the music and at the time ease tree hall to Hollywood story were both genuinely the early seasons of those shows where some of the best documentary television ever. [00:58:47] And it sucks that because of probably music rights and other stuff that they’re not available on streaming. And then I’ve had a hard time finding like copies online. I’m Sure. [00:58:56] they’re on newsgroups or torrents somewhere, but like behind the music in between. [00:59:00] What happened with both of them? Uh, what killed both of them was that they got so popular that they had to make so many, that they were doing each of Hollywood stories about shit that didn’t need a true Hollywood story. [00:59:10] And, uh, like, you know, they were just cramming into an hour and like, you, you didn’t care. But like originally they were like two hour long things and they were well reported and they were well-researched. And like the original behind the musics again were like these two hour things and were incredible documentaries. [00:59:25] And to your point about seeing people who hate each other talking a lot of times, like the stories of the bands, like I remember like the Fleetwood Mac one, like, you know, a lot of these things were bands who just really hated each other, but we’re still talking, you know, to the camera and we’re sharing like the rise and fall of stuff. [00:59:40] And like the, the very first behind the music, like the one that the very first episode in the, uh, it was the pilot, I guess. And the one that kind of like got at greenlit for more episodes was a milli Vanilli. And, um, it, they got an interview with. One of the, the, um, band numbers before he committed suicide, like only [01:00:00] a few months before he committed suicide. [01:00:02] And, you know, you talked to everybody involved about like how that fraud happened and that is still completely compelling documentary. And it, and it’s, it’s a shame to me, like, especially now that paramount plus, you know, exists and also peacock, I guess, cause because NBC owns E or universal NBC universal owns E like they parent plus, especially with the money they’re putting into that they could fucking license what they needed to license to get behind the music on streaming. [01:00:28] And it’s a shame to me that they don’t because like, again, like it’s just really interesting stuff. Like the grunge episode made me think about that a lot because the, some of the, um, the, each Holly behind the music’s rather about some of those bands and some of that era, you would have loved that shit. [01:00:44] If you would actually Dean to watch television in the late nineties, [01:00:49] 20220129 1127 Brett: Well, okay. So out of all the grunge bands, the only one I ever latched onto was mud honey. And partly because they covered the Dick’s [01:01:00] hate the police. And I was like, holy shit, this band, this band gets it. And sure. I remember where I was when Kurt Cobain, when the, when the news came out, [01:01:11] 20220129 1127 Guest: new said, yeah, I remember exactly where I [01:01:12] 20220129 1127 Brett: I was in Dave’s guitar shop. [01:01:14] I was looking at big Muff distortion pedals, and, and the news came on the radio and everyone was kind of in shock. [01:01:22] 20220129 1127 Guest: I, [01:01:22] was watching MTV with my sister’s friends. I was like 10 and, um, yeah, And, and we were in shock. [01:01:29] 20220129 1127 Brett: like I remember it. I remember my basis telling me I was an asshole because I kind of chuckled because it seemed obvious that Kurt Cobain had died. And in retrospect, I regret that it was, it was a loss like it, it was a loss and I, I did not acknowledge it at the time. [01:01:50] 20220129 1127 Guest: Well, no, but [01:01:50] 20220129 1127 Brett: I was drunk. [01:01:52] 20220129 1127 Guest: I was gonna say you were drunk. [01:01:53] and you were what you were like, you were like 17. [01:01:55] 20220129 1127 Brett: Um, I don’t remember 16, 17. That seems right. [01:01:58] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. So Yeah. [01:01:59] So [01:02:00] you were drunk, you also were probably like, because Nirvana was so big at that point, you probably were like, fuck Nirvana. [01:02:07] 20220129 1127 Brett: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [01:02:08] 20220129 1127 Guest: know what I mean? Like, like, like, like, uh, okay. Like my sister skipped school after river Phoenix died, she was so upset. She was so upset that like, she like took a sick day. [01:02:20] Like she stayed at home from school. he was hot. I know, but that was my mom. I have to get my mom so much credit in Sonos because she, she was a really good mom, but she would also indulge her bullshit, like Kelly staying home from school because river Phoenix side. And, and I was like nine and I was like, I was like, okay, He, He like, oh, deed, right? [01:02:44] Like you understand that, that this isn’t like some big tr I mean it’s tragic, but like motherfucker roadied, but she was just like, so obsessed. She was like, I loved him. I’m like, oh, okay. You know? Um, but, but that was that, that was like a big one for [01:03:00] her, I guess if Mark Paul Gossler guy who played Zack on saver the bell, I guess like, if he died, I, I would’ve skipped fourth grade, but, um, maybe, um, [01:03:11] 20220129 1127 Brett: I just watch a documentary where they let Malcolm McLaren tell this story of how Sid vicious died [01:03:18] 20220129 1127 Guest: yeah, [01:03:20] 20220129 1127 Brett: and that’s fucked up. Like McLaren should not be the guy telling that story. [01:03:25] 20220129 1127 Guest: No, no, but also, like, I don’t know. Well, that whole thing is so interesting. Um, to go on a tangent again, Okay. That’s another one where there was the, the, my better understanding of, um, uh, sex pistols and, and of sitting Nancy actually came from behind the music because the film, like, frankly, let’s sit off the hook a whole lot. [01:03:50] 20220129 1127 Brett: Totally. [01:03:51] 20220129 1127 Guest: Like, so, so like a lot of people grant included like their whole basis of all of that, like comes from and Nancy and I’m like, [01:04:00] okay, motherfucker, like raped and murdered her and then killed himself. Like, I don’t care what she did. Like, [01:04:08] 20220129 1127 Brett: Okay. He’s not a good guy on heroin. Sid vicious was a terrible person. I have no respect for him at all, but what happened that night to me is controversial. [01:04:21] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. well she was dead before he was that that’s not controversial. [01:04:26] 20220129 1127 Brett: No, that’s fact [01:04:27] 20220129 1127 Guest: Right. So, so, so, so, so he killed. [01:04:31] 20220129 1127 Brett: I, I, can’t a hundred percent endorsed that to me. That is an unknown, it’s a possibility for sure, but I can’t, it can’t be proven. [01:04:46] 20220129 1127 Guest: I dunno, I w w she was, she was, she, she was dead before he was she, [01:04:50] 20220129 1127 Brett: We’re having, we’re having an argument over someone who’s been dead for how many years? 40 35. [01:04:57] 20220129 1127 Guest: Um, so I, yeah. [01:05:00] Uh, no, no, 40 I think you’re right. The movie was, is 35. [01:05:02] years old, but anyway, a lot of people, like, I think, cause like the, the film, like. Kind of glorified their relationship and other stuff. And the behind the music was actually, um, uh, better. [01:05:13] The interesting thing that also going back to the Kurt Cobain thing, fucking Courtney love was like obsessed with sit in Nancy and she would not stop. Like, she has a small role in the film, but she like wanted to be Nancy so badly that she like annoyed the hell out of like the director. Like She wouldn’t like go away and that’s why he cast her in a small role because she just wouldn’t fucking go away. [01:05:35] And [01:05:36] 20220129 1127 Brett: sense as Nancy. [01:05:37] 20220129 1127 Guest: does make sense as Nancy. [01:05:39] like I have to say, like, I can’t remember the name of the actress that, that actually played, um, uh, Nancy, uh, but like, and even weirdly now my mind I’m like, yeah, Courtney love. Right. Cause like that would have been in rec, like that would have been perfect casting, Chloe Webb. [01:05:54] That’s it. Okay. So, [01:06:00] um, let’s talk about some TV, some Goodson. [01:06:02] 20220129 1127 Brett: I feel like, I feel like we should save, we have another episode to do in just a few days. [01:06:08] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. [01:06:10] 20220129 1127 Brett: Let’s save the rest of this good and bad TV for the next episode. [01:06:15] 20220129 1127 Guest: Okay. All right. We’ll start with it though. Well, we’ll, we’ll get into it fairly early. Yeah. Cause, cause I, I do want to talk to you also, um, uh, one of the shows on the list, a new episode dropped last night or yesterday [01:06:26] 20220129 1127 Brett: that be single drunk female? [01:06:28] 20220129 1127 Guest: it would. [01:06:28] 20220129 1127 Brett: I definitely want to talk about that. We’re going to talk about how we met your father and, and, and how the only thing going for it is it is it doesn’t have rape jokes. [01:06:39] 20220129 1127 Guest: no. And, uh, and, and, and look, I do like Hilary Duff. We’ll talk about it. We’re, we’re saving it. We’re saving it, but Yeah. [01:06:46] But, but we’re also going to talk about better TV, so Yeah. But, but an episode of single drunk female, uh, dropped yesterday. [01:06:51] 20220129 1127 Brett: Awesome. This is, this is great fodder for our next episode. So in the meantime, thanks everyone for tuning in and definitely [01:07:00] tune back in. If you want to hear about what is shitty and what is great about TV right now. [01:07:07] [01:07:36] 20220129 1127 Guest: Exactly. Thank you so much. [01:07:38] 20220129 1127 Brett: All right, Christina gets some sleep. [01:07:40] 20220129 1127 Guest: Get some sleep, Brett.

Farts. It’s farts in a jar. Spontaneous pregnancy, crypto backlash, and, why not, let’s debate the value of The Matrix. Sponsor Take 20% off your SimpliSafe System AND get your first month free when you sign up for the interactive monitoring service. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired. Stop paying crazy wireless bills and switch to Mint Mobile. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to mintmobile.com/overtired. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links The Witcher ‘Fallout’: Kilter Films’ TV Series Based On Games Moving Forward Matrix Resurrections Renegade Cut Korn Video Mozilla pauses accepting crypto donations following backlash jwz.org businessinsider.com on the Web3 boom Moxie Marlinspike – My first impressions of web3 Queer Eye Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.. Transcript Overtired 270 [00:00:00] Christina: You are listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren, and I’m here as always with Mr. Brett. Terpstra happy. 20, 22 Brett [00:00:12] Brett: Hey, happy, happy new year. How are you doing? [00:00:15] Christina: new year. I’m not bad. My bad. I’m a little tired. Um, I like, I slept a lot yesterday and then today, which is Sunday as we’re recording this, like, I’ve got like, maybe like a 45 minute nap because we were supposed to record at a certain time. And then I like took a nap then instead. But I, I, I basically didn’t go to bed at all. [00:00:35] So it’s like early afternoon. I mean, it’s like 11:00 AM here. So it was like early afternoon, basically. And, and I’ve slept like 45 minutes in the last, I don’t know, 18 hours, but I slept a ton yesterday. So my sleep schedule is swamped. Is what I’m [00:00:51] Brett: What, why are you up on. [00:00:52] Christina: I know. I don’t know. I was, I was getting pulled into reading about stupid drama on. [00:00:59] the [00:01:00] internet and, and other stuff. [00:01:02] Brett: Yeah, that’s breeding stupid drama on the internet is not usually the reason you stay up. It’s just a symptom of not sleeping. [00:01:10] Christina: No, this is very true. This is very true. And I’m not sure I think. Okay. So I’m pretty sure I had Omicron, um, uh, because of testing, uh, like it’s, it’s impossible to know, but I am better now, but I’m pretty sure I, had on the crime. And so like, I think as I was getting that out of my system, like my, my sleep schedule, just not great. [00:01:33] So. [00:01:34] Brett: I, so they talk about Alma, crown being milder, but the long COVID shit is really like I’ve gone into full lockdown. I’ve canceled my weekly visits with my parents. And, uh, like Al is masking full-time at work, even when no one’s no customers are in the yarn shop. And like, we are doing our best not to eat a mild infection. [00:01:58] Doesn’t scare us, but the long-term [00:02:00] effects are frightening. [00:02:03] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:02:04] no. Um, and, and it’s impossible to know me cause long COVID we know so little about it. I think at this point, Alma Cron for a lot of us is probably kind of a foregone conclusion just because of how rapidly it’s spreading. And it does seem like if I had it, if I didn’t fact habit, I had the symptoms of a cold, um, and you know, I had like, um, my throat was sore. [00:02:25] I never had a cough. I never had a fever, my ears hurt, but it was one of those things that would have been like I would have in any other year pre pandemic would have written off as like a winter cold, you [00:02:37] Brett: Well, and bonus, the antibodies will keep you from catching Delta. [00:02:42] Christina: right, right. Which is very important. No, I was going to say, I mean, like the thing is, is that I I’ve been Vaxxed. I’ve been boosted and now I’m, I’m 99% sure that I’ve had Omicron. So I should hopefully protect it against, you know, the, the serious. [00:03:00] Um, variants at least as far as we [00:03:02] Brett: are you self-diagnosing? I thought we’ve talked about that. [00:03:06] Christina: I usually don’t self [00:03:07] Brett: I’m joking. [00:03:08] Christina: I know, I will know with the, the testing situation is so fucked up. Like I haven’t been able to, you know, in the window when I, when I would have tested positive, I wasn’t able to test. So like, that’s the problem. So, [00:03:23] Brett: I’m just I’m I’m not leaving the house. I guess. I, I went to the co-op, but like, it’s not like I’m like scared and hiding inside. I just, I never leave the house anyway. Um, I’m just being a little extra cautious now. [00:03:40] Christina: no, I mean, I think that makes total sense. I mean, like I had to, I had to fly home and, um, you know, like, uh, I think that I might’ve actually had it when I was still in Atlanta. I don’t even know, you know, and I was certainly masking and doing everything I could there, but like, Georgia. It was weird. I think I might, I don’t know if I talked about this with you, I’m on the last pod that we did before the end of the year or not, [00:04:00] but I was heartened and also it was like, it was kind of a weird like WTF moment because we were in Costco wearing masks and most of the other people were wearing masks, which was nice to see considering it is not a requirement in Georgia. [00:04:18] Um, and I saw a guy on like a motorized scooter in a mask wearing a Maga hat and I was like, huh, [00:04:28] Brett: That’s interesting. [00:04:30] Christina: I was like, this is an interesting. [00:04:31] sight to see this. And I’m like, I feel pretty confident. He probably isn’t Bakst but it, at least it was nice to see someone in a mega hat wearing a mask. You know what I mean? [00:04:44] Like, I’m not like I doesn’t make me necessarily feel better about the state of humanity, but it also, I, that that was not a site that I expected. [00:04:52] Brett: Yeah, especially the recent polling that shows that I think 40, some [00:05:00] percent of Republicans believe that January six was done to protect was to protect democracy. And 30% still believed that Joe Biden didn’t win the election. That’s he? Those are huge numbers. This is crazy. It’s crazy. [00:05:18] Christina: that’s it. This is beyond crazy. [00:05:19] Like, it’s just, I just don’t even know. And it’s gotten worse, you know what I mean? Like, like this is just [00:05:26] Brett: yeah, I mean, and Trump has never conceded, he continues to he’s continues to rail that it was a fraudulent election and he’s going to keep doing that all the way through 20, 24. But if you never lost, are you still eligible to run or are we counting this towards his, his max eight years? [00:05:48] Christina: No. I mean, he, he could, so, Ron, I think at this point it’s an age thing. It’s like, you know what I mean? And it’s also, I think, I think that he’s kind of the boogeyman and I think that my [00:06:00] hope is, and, and, and this is, you know, me being hopeful, which is always a bad thing. My hope is, is that his, the way that he’s acting where he’s kind of like doing the, will he won’t he run thing is that that will potentially impede, um, the Republican party from having a better candidate ready to go in 20, 24. [00:06:21] Um, [00:06:21] Brett: a primary against them there? [00:06:23] Christina: well, that’s what I’m saying. And so they’re going to be at a point where they’re going to have to wait until it’s very clear that he’s not running before they can even start that process, which is going to make a difficult, right. For both fun for fundraising for, for so many [00:06:36] Brett: Yeah, but there’s a whole host of sycophantic imitators waiting to, to step [00:06:42] Christina: there are. [00:06:43] Brett: all of, all of Trump’s fundraising machinery could go to whoever, you know, does end up in the. [00:06:50] Christina: Oh 100%, 100%. I just feel like, you know, ideally if you were going to be like coming up with another campaign [00:07:00] thing, like you would be starting to put out the feelers right now, to be honest. And you know what I mean? So late and you would be starting to kind of, you know, shore up stuff. If it, if we’re into, you know, like 20, 23 and you know, it’s still kind of a, uh, an up there thing, that’s going to put them at a disadvantage, even if they turn on his campaign spicket, right? [00:07:22] Like that’s, that’s still going to from like just a pure, like ground game perspective, not be great. Uh, I think that if it’s not him, uh, and I don’t think it will be him. I think that for, for many reasons, I’m hoping that like the cooler heads will prevail and mold like him. And Sam’s like, dude, You know, die in, in west Palm beach in peace, you know what I mean? [00:07:44] Like continue to be the boogeyman on TV, which is what he always wanted. Anyway. He, he never really wanted to be president. Uh, but, but I sadly think, I think it’s going to be, um, the, the, uh, the governor of Florida, um, who’s going to be the candidate, [00:08:00] um, [00:08:01] Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:08:01] Brett: Speaking of boogeyman. If you ever wanted to make your home feel safer, there’s no better time than now. Right now, our friends at simply safe are giving over-tired listeners access to all their new year’s holiday deals, 20% off their award-winning home security. And your first month is free. When you sign up for the interactive monitoring service, we love simply safe because it has everything you need to make your home safe, indoor and outdoor cameras, comprehensive sensors, all monitored around the clock by trained professionals. [00:08:32] They sent help. The instant you need it simply safe was even named best home security system of 2021. By us news and world report, you can easily customize the system for your home online in minutes, and even get free custom recommendations. And there are no long-term contracts or commitments. It’s a really easy way to start feeling a bit more peace of mind in the new year. [00:08:54] So hurry and take 20% off your simply safe system. And your first month is free. When you [00:09:00] sign up for the interactive monitoring service visit, simply safe. That’s S I M P L I S a F e.com/overtired. Again, that’s simply safe.com/ over-tired. For 20% off. Your entire system helps you keep an eye on. On those boogeyman. [00:09:19] Christina: Yeah, [00:09:20] Florida Man and Fallout [00:09:20] Brett: If I were, if I were in, if I were in Florida, I would definitely want a simply safe system [00:09:25] Christina: Yeah. For lots of reasons. Yeah. To protect against lots of different [00:09:29] Brett: and entertainment. Right. I mean, the shit that has [00:09:32] Christina: all the Florida man, are you kidding me? Like the Florida man videos alone, that you would be able to like view like, honestly, like that would be pretty great [00:09:41] Brett: Mm. Catch catch Matt gates with underage women. And you’re in your back in your pool, in your backyard. [00:09:49] Christina: not to mention just all the other like random Florida shit that happens, you [00:09:53] Brett: Yeah. I don’t know if this is good advertising for our sponsor, but [00:09:57] Christina: I mean, it’s probably I’m, I’m just saying [00:09:59] Brett: get when you [00:10:00] advertise with us, you know, you, you, you could see it as good. You could see it as bad, but that’s what you get. [00:10:06] Christina: This is what you get. [00:10:07] And, and I think that this is, look, if you want to actually have the audience pay attention to an ad read, this is probably, I would say is probably something that’s going to be more successful for you. [00:10:17] Brett: Oh man. You know, who does really good ad reads? Um, some more news, uh, Corey Johnson, uh, does these just over the top sarcastic average and I love them and like, they’re entertaining enough to listen to that. I, I think they’re actually way more effective than a straight read. I think they’ve must, they must clear the scripts with the sponsors beforehand because some of the, some of the things I say, I would think they would have to do make goods all the time anyway, so. [00:10:53] Okay. Have you ever had, have you, did you watch season one of the Witcher? [00:10:59] Christina: [00:11:00] I did. [00:11:00] Brett: So you’re familiar with the, with the character. [00:11:05] Christina: I am. I am we talked about this before? My problem is I like didn’t remember all of it, so I need to watch the second season, but I need to go back and watch the first one first. And I just [00:11:12] Brett: And we did that. I J I joined L started watching the first season again, and I wasn’t motivated, but then about episode, I think I watched four through, I think there’s six. Um, I joined her and we watched them and I got really into it again. And I remembered why I loved it. And then we watched season two and we kind of binged it, I think a couple of weeks. [00:11:34] And, um, if any show has ever been capable of getting a woman spontaneously pregnant, I think it season two of the Witcher, [00:11:46] Christina: Nice. So he’s had [00:11:48] Brett: looks, his Boyce, like everything about him gets like magnified in season two. He is unbelievably hot. And the weird thing is we looked up interviews with the [00:12:00] actor. Do not, you, you, you cannot see the Witcher in the act or when he’s doing an interview, his voice is different. [00:12:08] His, without the wig he’s he looks nothing like him. Like even his walk. Is he not in any Superman I’ve ever seen, but I haven’t seen the Superman movie since the eighties. [00:12:20] Christina: okay. Well, yeah, I know he was a Superman and the, and the Amy Adams and then, um, you know, the, um, yeah, [00:12:26] Brett: Amy Adams was in a Superman movie. [00:12:28] Christina: Yeah, [00:12:30] Brett: I’ll take your word for it. I’ll I might go look that up, but I can tell you that [00:12:33] Christina: no. He’s also in Batman V Superman, which is not good, but, but in, in, in the, the man of steel, uh, which, which was good, it, yeah. Um, but yeah. Yeah. [00:12:42] Brett: Is he sexy in that? [00:12:43] Christina: Um, [00:12:45] Brett: Cause he’s just like hinder his interview. He’s a good looking guy, but not like panty dropper. [00:12:50] Christina: No totally. Although he there’s this video that he did last year where he built his own gaming PC, and it was the great, like he put it on his [00:13:00] Instagram and he did like a thing, like kind of like a, um, um, like a time-lapse thing of him building his PC and like putting all the parts in and stuff. It was, it was freaking awesome. [00:13:11] Like, because he’s apparently like a huge nerd. Like he played the games before he was cast. And like, he apparently for one of his auditions, like, he was almost like, you almost missed it because he was playing, you know, some multiplayer game or something. And, and I’m seeing him build his, uh, his, his gaming PC was like, actually pretty fucking great. [00:13:32] Cause he’s got the muscles out and he’s doing the whole thing. And like, and he’s not doing it in like a, I’m trying to be sexy kind of way. He’s like really doing it in like for, for nerds, for somebody reasons. As a female nerd, I was like, oh my God, this is the hottest thing ever. Um, and, uh, Yeah, he’s, he’s fantastic. [00:13:51] Um, [00:13:51] Brett: well, as, as Witcher, I can attest that he is definitely pretty goddamn [00:14:00] sexy. [00:14:01] Christina: he is. And, and he’s, he’s just, he’s, he’s lovely. I really [00:14:04] Brett: Also I’ve realized, I think I like fantasy. I I’ve always considered myself a scifi person, but could take her li fantasy, but like shadow and bone. And, uh, I guess ever since, uh, the habit trilogy or the Lord of the rings trilogy, I mean, um, I’ve kinda, I’ve had a soft place for dragons and magic and I don’t, I didn’t recognize this part of myself until now. [00:14:35] Christina: That’s really interesting. Um, and I have to say, cause I’m not, I mean, I’m usually the same as you, like, I’m like, I like Saifai, wouldn’t call myself like a huge fantasy person. Like never like Lord of the rings. I don’t really care for, um, you know, I never read any of the books, but I do like, I do like Witcher and, uh, I, I, I could maybe get into some games. [00:14:54] Um, uh, this is kind of a tangent, so, which I think is like one of the [00:15:00] few, if only like good adaptations of like a video game that I’ve ever. You know, like in another medium, like it, it, it, it usually it does not work well at all. Um, I don’t know you saw the news this week. Um, the showrunner of, um, uh, creator of, um, Westworld is, um, going to be creating greenlit, a fallout TV series. [00:15:26] Brett: That I’m not a gamer. I know that fallout is a game and that’s where the knowledge ends. [00:15:33] Christina: Okay. So you would love fallout because fallout is like dystopic as fuck. And it is completely like, it’s a, post-apocalyptic kind of a role playing game, but there’s like a leader, like version there’s like kind of action elements into it. It’s really, really, really fucking good. Um, and, um, like is kind of has like a, like a retro futurist kind of like element it’s really good. [00:15:54] Um, I would say that like the, um, Like the, the fallout, [00:16:00] um, 76, which was, came out like that, which is like a spinoff, not good, but like fallout, fallout to follow three follow for like fucking fantastic games. And the storyline is really good. And like, it’s always been really head of its time in terms of like letting characters, like be like whatever gender they want to be and having different roles and stuff. [00:16:19] And it’s just, it’s a really good game. But, um, this is one of the things where like my first concert, I was like, okay, well you could fuck this up really easily. And, um, but then I looked at like the, um, the team that is behind it and S and it looks great. So it is basically Jonathan Nolan is directing and he’s the, he’s the co-creator and the showrunner of Westworld, which is great in west role is already similar in a lot of ways to follow. [00:16:46] So that’s [00:16:46] Brett: Oh, I, I was, I heard Christopher Nolan. This is a different Nolan. [00:16:51] Christina: No different Nolan. yet. So, so this is the guy that created an and is directed a lot of episodes, especially the first season of Westworld. [00:17:00] Okay. [00:17:00] And Westworld has a very similar fallout vibe. So honestly, I feel like that’s a match, but then the two show runners, um, are, um, uh, Geneva, Robertson, um, duet and Graham Wagner, and their credits respectively are like the perfect map mix for this show. [00:17:16] So, um, uh, gene of Robertson, uh, Doret co-wrote captain Marvel and also the 2018 tumor film, which is again, one of the rare examples of like a good adaptation of a video game and Anthony thing. I think that the 2018 tomb Raider film was like better than. I mean, the, the, the reboot of the tomb Raider games are good, but like the original ones, weren’t great. [00:17:41] And like the original films, you know, Angelina Jolie is iconic, but, you know, they’re not really anything that’s special. Whereas I think that like the 20 18 2 murder film was both really is really good and is a good way of bringing kind of the reboot of that franchise to that medium. And then the other, uh, show runner, um, was an executive producer on [00:18:00] Portlandia and on Silicon valley and baskets. [00:18:02] And so that’s like the perfect match to me where you’ve got, okay, somebody who has real kind of like action chops, as well as somebody who, you know, Portlandia and Silicon valley, like really getting the humor and, and that sort of like wryness sound. So just from the creative team, not knowing anything else about it, like, I am feeling incredibly, incredibly, like hopeful about this, which as someone who loves the fallout games, this makes me happy because this would be. [00:18:36] What would be a usual and this is going to be on Amazon, by the way, this would usually be like something that would fill me with red being like, okay, you’re trying to adapt one of the greatest games series of all time. You’re going to fuck it up. You’re not going to get the tone. Right. You’re not going to do it, you know, any of it, justice. [00:18:52] And I feel like they might, they might nail it. And similarly to the way I feel like, like Witcher has been incredibly well done. [00:18:58] Brett: All right. That was, [00:19:00] that was, that was a classic Christina, uh, tangent. Beautiful. Do you have anything linkable for this? Uh, [00:19:07] Christina: I sure do. I sure do. Yep. There, it was a exclusive, I’m going to add that to the show notes [00:19:13] Brett: Um, speaking of movies, is this a movie or a TV series? [00:19:20] Christina: was a TV series, but they’re all the same [00:19:22] Brett: Eh, they kind of are these like short run six, eight episode where it’s one long story arc. I feel like they are just really long movies that you can watch in chunks. But anyway, I, I had decided not to watch matrix resurrections just because the overall reviews were dismal. [00:19:42] Um, and it just, I wasn’t interested in, like, I, I think we talked, we neither of us really remember the second or third movies. We remember the first one, uh, we kind of erase the second and third from our memories and I feel like. If it wasn’t going to be good, I didn’t need to see a fourth [00:20:00] if I already found the first two SQLs forgettable, but then I, I watched a YouTube from second thought on, uh, analyzing its its place as a trans political statement. [00:20:16] Uh, the matrix as a whole, as it as trans politics. But, uh, especially the fourth one, which kind of peels back the, the fourth wall and they represent, they represent the, the movies as games that Neo or Tom Anderson has created. And therefore they can make social media critiques of the movies by way of treating them as a game trilogy and, and kind of break that wall down. [00:20:50] So the movie could critique itself without being too heavy handed and just putting in a bunch of inside jokes. I ended up liking the movie. Like it helped that I was looking at it [00:21:00] through a lens of it being something other than it was on the cover. But I gotta say like, even as just a fun movie, I, I had a good time. [00:21:10] It was a fun movie. [00:21:13] Christina: Okay. Okay. Um, I didn’t hate it. I didn’t, I didn’t love it. It, it felt, um, I think that if I, I viewed it through like the different lens, I think that I might have like a different interpretation. Um, and then I read a lot of the discourse about that stuff, but, but for me, like, I, I’m very happy to like, see like that sort of reading into the trilogy and into the films, but it has always, in some ways, to me felt a little bit like, like, I don’t know, like rewriting history, um, not to say that [00:21:49] Brett: except for, since the first movie came out, both what cow gays have come out as trans women. [00:21:56] Christina: you’re, you’re completely correct. And I, and I’m not, I’m not debating that. I [00:22:00] just feel like some of the reading into that has been a little bit like. Over, like, that’s not to say that there might not have been some of those themes that were, you know, like maybe hidden deep inside, but I personally do not buy the theory that that was always like the hidden message of the film. [00:22:18] I just don’t believe or the trilogy. I [00:22:20] Brett: so I, and I don’t need it to be true of the original, but the fact that they, they, and they explicitly mention it in the fourth movie, uh, they, they talk about all the ways that the game has been interpreted and among them as, as trans political. And, uh, and I feel like they kind of embraced the eye, that idea, even if it wasn’t intentional in the beginning, they embraced it for this fourth movie. [00:22:50] And I don’t remember which, which of the two sisters was the director of this one, but it was a solo effort. Yeah.[00:23:00] [00:23:00] Christina: No. And I look, and I agree with that. And I think for the fourth one, I’m happy to view It through that lens for the previous three, even with like the acknowledgement that obviously both directors transitioned and that maybe you could say that that was part of, kind of like the, their, their underlying thoughts when they are going through that. [00:23:17] I personally just don’t buy like the retroactive kind of like art tourism of being like, oh, well this was always the hidden meaning. And the reason I say that is just to be completely blunt. I feel like that gives way too much credit and like is, is, is frankly like too much fan service to all of the like ridiculous amount of essays that have been written, especially in the last five to seven years. [00:23:43] About that subject, where, to me, it just doesn’t like, it just doesn’t compute. Like, I just don’t think that I just personally feel like maybe that was some of the subtext and maybe that was something that the, that the directors were going through, but I haven’t seen anything that makes me conclusively believe that that [00:24:00] actually was the real subtext. [00:24:01] I think this is stuff that the people have gone in and seen Intuit. It’s kind of like when you see all the people who write these like really long essays or make these really long video essays about all the hidden meaning and Pixar films. And it’s like, okay, this is your interpretation, but this isn’t actually fact, um, the differences is that now they have turned some of that into, you know, Canon for lack of a better term for the fourth film. [00:24:20] And I’m fine with that. And I’m fine with even taking on like that. Um, you know, like, like way of kind of like, you know, changing like the, the, the, the films going forward. I just personally w will not go back and view the other threes specifically through that, one. Um, for me personally, but I’m, I’m obviously people are walk Walkman to workship interpret things. [00:24:43] However they want, um, some of the meta-analysis of the, of resurrections did it didn’t bother me. It just felt like, again, like it’s like, okay, well, who are you making? Like, what’s the point of this? Is, is this just to be kind of meta [00:25:00] and kind of responsive and kind of, you know, like, whatnot. Um, I think my biggest issue with the film though, and again, like, I didn’t hate it. [00:25:07] I just, the second third phones are bad. They’re not good films. And I felt like there was an opportunity here to in many ways, just kind of discount or diminish what those were and to, you know, do kind of a true kind of response to the first film. [00:25:26] Brett: I remember, I remember nothing about the plot and the second and third movies, and it didn’t matter for watching resurrections. Like I felt like there was, there were no references in it that I didn’t immediately understand. [00:25:40] Christina: Yeah. [00:25:40] I mean, that, that that’s fair to a certain extent. I just feel like they could have erased and like changed how some of those things were set out. I just felt like it, you know, like to me that just felt like a failure. It was just like, okay, you had the second and third films, which were not good films. [00:25:53] And, and that many of the Koski fans for years and years defended, because I remember this, I [00:26:00] remember being like, I wasn’t an active part of the discourse cause I didn’t care enough, but it was one of those things that like we would get like get into kind of like arguments about it with people, you know, If you will go, you know, defending this and that, oh no, this is, this is this great story. [00:26:12] This is algorithm, this and that. And it’s all these other things. That’s why these two, these two films have to exist. I’m like, okay, but they’re shitty films. And to be even furtherly blunt, if I’m just being honest and going on and Christina rant, the first film is a technical Marvel and was in the right place at the right time and was released at the perfect time. [00:26:31] What is overrated? It’s not that great of a movie, like as a movie. It’s not that great. I think that if it had come out even six months later, I do not think that we would continually be talking about the matrix. Now it came out when it came out and it was a juggernaut and it was hugely impactful and I’m not taking anything away from that, but it came out in a, in an incredible year for cinema, like an incredible year for cinema. [00:26:53] And it came out in April of 2000 of 1999. If it had come out six months later and it was having to be in the same conversation [00:27:00] as American beauty and Magnolia and fight club, we would not be talking about the matrix. Like, no, not at all. I don’t think that it would have taken on the way that it did. I think that it took on for, for a couple of reasons. [00:27:14] First, as I said, April, 1999, perfect time for it to be released the, the, the graphics and the stuff like, you know, like, like bullet time was really incredible. And then what happened was when the DVD release happened, it was the perfect timing because that was right when people started buying DVD players. [00:27:33] And so it came out on DVD and September of 99 and became even like months after that, like bundled with a lot of people’s DVD players. So for many people, it was the first film they got on DVD and that, and DVD, because there were more of the films, they were higher definition, like, uh, people collected movies and rewash them in a different way. [00:27:53] And there were extra features and all that stuff. And so I think that that impacted the film far [00:28:00] more than. Like, I think that that timing was just like perfect. And I, and I do wonder, I think that if it had gone up against like some of the other films in, especially in late 99, I don’t, I don’t know if it would have done as well at the box office and consequently, I don’t think it would have had the home video legs, which is what made it, you know, the juggernaut. [00:28:21] I feel like the timing [00:28:22] Brett: I think it still would have had the same fan base though. [00:28:26] Christina: Um, I think it would’ve had a fan base. I don’t think that it would have been what it is. Like people wouldn’t have like, like 10 million people or however many people had the DVD wouldn’t have had the DVD. Like I think that that timing was like really perfect. Um, and [00:28:41] Brett: We may never [00:28:42] Christina: yeah, but we will, we will never know. [00:28:44] I just, I, I stand by the fact that I think that the consequent reason, why was the timing and looked at Jaime, it was perfect. I’m not taking anything away from that, but I do feel like that was as important of an element as anything else, you know, um, for, for that, for that [00:29:00] series, And I feel like that shows because if you look at like the second and third films, they had like, record-breaking, you know. [00:29:07] like box office stuff, but they were not well received. [00:29:09] They were not good films and they haven’t had the legacy at all. You know, that the, the, the, the first one had, so, [00:29:17] Brett: Um, I would like to correct my earlier statement. The video that I watched that got me to watch the movie was from Renegade cut. It was titled the matrix. Resurrections is absolutely beautiful. That’s the title, which I believe, I believe he put out there as clickbait because. Uh, that’s a contrarian point of view, but I linked that in the show notes. [00:29:41] I did appreciate that they, because of this, uh, referencing the matrix as a video game, they were able to say the phrase bullet time. However, I feel like they failed to live up to. I mean, that like [00:30:00] bullet time in the original movie was so, uh, groundbreaking and it was such a stunning visual effect. And. [00:30:09] Christina: it was, And. [00:30:10] it was, it was that, and it was that corn video that, that corn video did have at the [00:30:13] Brett: I don’t remember that corn video. I D I never, I never saw it, I don’t think, but, um, but they, then they mention it, they named drop the effect, and then they do a pretty poor representation of, of bullet time in, in matrix resurrections. That was a little disappointed. You have the opportunity to, to like really recreate a pivotal moment in film history and you failed, but. [00:30:43] Christina: Right. No, totally. So, so it was frequent on leash, which was like, corn’s big breakout song in 99. You were not watching MTV in 1999. I was in high school. So I obviously was, I was watching TRL every day, but this video was actually directed by Todd McFarlane who, you know, taught [00:31:00] McFarland of, of, of comic book fame. [00:31:01] Um, and, um, and it was an animation and there, there was live action stuff and they had a bullet time sequence and, and that actually predated the, um, the matrix by a couple of months, but obviously the matrix was already done, but, but those sorts of things were, were kind of, you know, happening. Like, obviously what happened, the matrix was, was, was bigger, but the matrix like explode at [00:31:22] Brett: Like the tech, the technology that like the full circle of, of high rise cameras that it takes to pull off the, the 3d frozen, uh, action moment, uh, was definitely like that the matrix didn’t invent that [00:31:40] Christina: No, but it popularized it and it was the one who did it the best. And again, I think like, to my point, like, did you watch it like downloaded, like, like, like defects, like where’s copies before it came out on [00:31:50] Brett: the matrix, I don’t remember. [00:31:54] Christina: Okay. Cause when I was, again, I was in high school. Um, what happened? What happened is like [00:32:00] people either they were cam copies or they were decent, like digital, you know, uh, copies or whatever. [00:32:06] They’re probably cam copies, meaning people sitting in the back of a movie theater recording with a camera, but, um, uh, those got on the internet, like. Immediately and because some people had high-speed internet, uh, I did not, I still had, I was still stuck with dial up cause we didn’t have a cable in my neighborhood yet, but some of my friends did, they were on the, this was before BitTorrent, but they were on like Napster and the other types of services. [00:32:32] And so were those things where people were, you know, like downloading it and then burning it to, um, CD at that point, because most people didn’t have the DVD, um, uh, players. And if they did, they didn’t have DVD burners at home. Um, like I had a DVD drive, but I didn’t have like a, um, a DVD R drive. Um, but people were like burning them to CDs and watching them that way. [00:32:53] We’re watching them as like, you know, like, you know, um, MPEG, you know, iMovie files. And so I [00:33:00] think the matrix was probably the first like full length film that I ever had, like a downloaded copy of on my computer that was watching before, you know, once before it came out on DVD. And like that was maybe a week after it was in theaters. [00:33:13] So it was one of those things that a lot of us, we were watching over and over and over and over again, before the film even came out on home video, which just made it immediately be like, Yeah. [00:33:22] well, I want to watch you the higher quality version, you know, once it’s out on DVD. So for, for a lot of people have like a certain age who I think are, uh, not completely the, the, the core fan base, but, but a lot of people on the fan base were people who were like, okay, this was like the beginning of us downloading, not just music with movies off the [00:33:41] Brett: So again, timing. [00:33:44] Christina: Yes. [00:33:45] Brett: So speaking of timing, no, I can’t, I can’t pull that one off. Um, speaking of saving money, is it okay to lead in from the idea of pirating films into cheaper [00:34:00] wireless? [00:34:01] Christina: 100%. You’re looking to save money and, and, and, you know, going to the movies with $6 back in the day, so, Right. Yeah. Totally. [00:34:10] Sponsor: Mint Mobile [00:34:10] Brett: And for just a little more than that, you can have wireless service, it saving, saving more and spending less is one of your top goals for 2022. 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[00:35:16] Crypto Backlash [00:35:16] Brett: Um, so the other thing that that’s been on my mind this week is the crypto backlash. [00:35:24] Christina: Yeah. [00:35:25] Brett: I, it, I spent a lot of time converting myself to being a Firefox user and I’m a pretty happy Firefox user. [00:35:34] And then Mozilla announced they were taking crypto donations and, uh, the, one of the original founders of Mozilla, Jamie’s a wind ski, J J w Z on Twitter, [00:35:50] Christina: I was going to say JW Z N and his and his blog, man. [00:35:54] Brett: which block. [00:35:55] Christina: I think, I think it’s jwc.org. I think that’s his [00:35:58] Brett: Oh, I I’m, I’m [00:36:00] not, I, I don’t know a lot about the guy. Um, but he, he tweeted higher. I’m not sure whoever I’m sure whoever runs his account has no idea who I am, but I founded Mozilla and I’m here to say, fuck you and fuck this. Everyone involved in the project should be witheringly ashamed of this decision to part partner with planet incinerating, Ponzi, Grifters, and you just sent me an article. [00:36:24] That’s. If I’m reading the headline correctly, they stopped after this. They stopped accepting crypto. [00:36:31] Christina: They did, they did at least temporarily they, they, they stopped taking, um, um, they they’re pausing crypto donations because of the backlash. So, um, um, basically, um, yeah, cause, cause yeah, cause in, in Jimmy he was one of the original, like he was like one of the original founders. He was one of the original careers of Mozilla. [00:36:49] He worked at Netscape. He’s like a hugely influential person in like the history of Mozilla. Um, and then Mozilla responded. So starting [00:37:00] today, we’re reviewing if and how our current policy on crypto. [00:37:03] donations fits with our climate goals. And as we conduct our review, we will pause the ability to donate cryptocurrency in the spirit of open, uh, open source. [00:37:12] This will be transparent process and we’ll share regular updates. We look forward to having this conversation and appreciate our community for bringing it to our. [00:37:19] Brett: Yeah, I don’t really care if Mozilla accepts crypto, that doesn’t, that doesn’t make me want to stop using Firefox, but it also makes me wonder, do I understand the backlash at all? Like I, I know crypto is bad for the environment and I hate that. Like, I, I, it makes me question everything I do with crypto, and I know that people view it as, and you could speak a lot more to like the whole Ponzi scheme aspect of it, but does it, if, if a company decides to accept [00:38:00] donations using a form that people have available, is that really constitute grounds for a major backlash? [00:38:09] Christina: Um, so I think it’s like a cultural thing at this point, in addition to just like the obvious, um, like potential, um, and, and actually not even potential, they are, there are very real environmental impacts of, [00:38:22] Brett: no argument [00:38:23] Christina: like that. That’s right. Like that, that is a real thing. Having said that, I mean, I also feel like this is one of those things that whether we like it or not, it is, it is here to say, uh, I think they are, you know, we’ve seen this before where companies have stopped taking cryptocurrency is donations. [00:38:39] Usually when they’ve stopped, it hasn’t been because of any sort of environmental reason or backlash it’s been because the price fluctuates so much that it’s like, just not worth it for them. Like either they. Uh, cash out immediately, which can cost them some money and fees that, you know, they may or may not want to pay that overhead depending on how much they get, or if they’re holding [00:39:00] it in crypto, like, and they have to try to account for that on their balance. [00:39:03] Somehow, you know, if you’re going up, you know, potentially many, many multiples or you’re losing a lot, like maybe, maybe you don’t want to do that. Uh, for Mozilla, I have to think that the amount of donations they are getting in cryptocurrency is probably a minuscule amount. I mean, they get almost all their money from Google. [00:39:22] Um, you know, like Google gives them several hundred million dollars a year and that’s where the bulk of their money comes from. Um, but, uh, obviously, um, when you have like the original creator of the project, and then you have this other like vocal backlash and you try to sell yourself as like where the not evil like web company, it does have, you know, there. [00:39:46] there’s like, there’s, there’s like a, uh, There’s a social element that then I think comes into play, which I think is a bear thing. [00:39:52] So my friend Kylie Robeson wrote this article for insight or the end of last year. If there’s a pay wall, if you use [00:40:00] a, like an ad blocker thing or like the read, you know, tool, you can, you can do it. Um, you know, you can read the article, um, it’s called, uh, the web three, boom is bringing, um, America’s culture wars to the tech industry. [00:40:12] And insider say it’s already causing an ideological rift among developers. And this was written, um, you know, two weeks ago. Um, and it’s completely dead on. We’ve just seen It happen even more. Uh, and, um, you know, at this point, uh, web three is becoming kind of the, the term to refer to anything crypto decentralized. [00:40:32] But for a lot of people, there are a lot of people who have like, just like an instant, like negative reaction to anything, web three, whether they think that the technology and the potential of de-centralization has any positives or not an and part of that is because a lot of the people who were really, really huge on the web three train are obnoxious, fucking assholes, and they’re obnoxious fucking crypto bros who like are gross and people are just turned off by the whole thing. [00:40:57] Like this was pretty funny. [00:41:00] Somebody was trying to argue with me. Um, last week that, um, web 2.0 was all about centralization, which it wasn’t like obviously became centralized, you know, across a number of large companies, Facebook, Google, whatnot. But the whole point actually of like the whole open API movement stuff with RSS and whatnot was actually de-centralization the fact that everything, you know, became centralized. [00:41:26] Wasn’t like, um, a fault of whoops. No, it wasn’t. And in this guy, um, and Dave Weiner had tweeted something about the saying, look, say whatever you want about web two, but you can’t claim that we want it to be centralized. You know, it’s like the mission of RSS and other stuff was this and that. And, and, and I quote, we did that and an agreed, and then this guy tried to argue with me that RSS was actually centralized and whatnot. [00:41:48] No, w this is what it was. He turned. No, no, no, no. He tried to argue with me that that RSS and blogs were part of web 1.0, and I like laughed at him. And I was like, What the fuck are you talking about you, you [00:42:00] can’t make any sort of argument in any sort of good faith that blogs and RSS were part of web one point. [00:42:05] Oh, like literally if you read, I was like, I’m not going to get into a whole thing with you, but if you want to go back and like, and I’m not going to argue with you about semantics, like it’s, you know, 2004 and we’re out of Tim O’Reilly conference, but go back and read him O’Reilly shit from 2005. And the irony of this is he was arguing about this with the guy who literally co-created RSS and one of the pioneers of blogging, Dave Weiner. [00:42:26] So to me, it was pretty hysterical that he’s like, kind of tell Dave Weiner, oh Yeah. your shit. Wasn’t actually web two point. Oh. Even though like, you know, um, if anybody would know it would be you, which is a stairwell to me and I’m like, okay, A lot of these people, just, they, they want to make step up. They want to come up with, with rationales that don’t exist. [00:42:45] And, and the hype that they get behind because the money’s real and at least right now it’s super frothy. And so a lot of people are making a ton of money. A lot of people don’t want to see any of the downsides. Now, [00:43:00] conversely, I do think that you have people who are overly cynical and are overly negative, just because they see the Ponzi schemes. [00:43:07] They see the get rich quicks that they see the outright scams, which to be clear are fucking real, but they ignore the fact that yes, even if this shit is gross and is happening, doesn’t change the fact that this is still a trend and that this stuff is, is still like a reality, whether we want to admit it or not like, um, Neil dash made a comment. [00:43:28] And, um, and, and Kylie’s article, um, where, um, he said, you know, um, The weathery community has not had that moment of realizing they had empowered, not just scammers and Grifters, but people that were going to twist this psychology for really evil use dash said for all the good it’s done, there’s been so much harm. [00:43:44] And I think there’s anxiety and grief and residual culpability about that. But he’d also commented, um, uh, about that, like that, like there’s a certain inevitability in, in whether three, like the weather, like we want to like admit it or not like, [00:44:00] like it is it’s here, right? Like this, this is a real thing. [00:44:04] So I feel like there’s this, um, like ideological divide where you have people who were way too bullish and, and are, are, are way too excited about what it is. And to the point that they’re changing history retroactively to make it seem like what three is the only true way. And then you also have people who are. [00:44:25] Way to anti, to the point where, you know, people are taking jobs at, uh, crypto related companies, they’re getting attacked for taking a job someplace like that. That happened to a former colleague of mine. And it’s like, okay, you don’t have the right to tell anybody where they can take a job. Now you can be an ass about it. [00:44:43] Obviously you have the right to be, to be an asshole on Twitter. Fine. But like no one is beholden to anyone else to be like, oh, I have some sort of like now like moral, like purity test that I have to say, oh, you know, if I associate with this company or that company, you know, if I’d take a job here and if I want [00:45:00] to be involved in this space, I’m suddenly now a bad person. [00:45:02] Like, I feel like that’s going too far as well, personally. [00:45:06] Brett: Any, anything that involves a parody test in my eyes is going too far. I can’t, I can’t think of a purity test. I agree with. [00:45:14] Christina: No, I, I, 1000% agree. And so at this point, I’m kind of like, I’m kind of in the stage of like, everybody’s shut the fuck up. Like, we don’t know what this is yet. And even though I don’t like a lot of aspects of the web three, like community, I’m not willing to write off defy or de-centralization or crypto as a concept, like have I seen the killer app for it yet? No, I absolutely haven’t. Um, But that doesn’t change the fact that, that, that this is real. I would be, I would like to see people have way more, um, like be building way more, uh, things on top of it. I will say what I thought was one of the best, um, blogs about this. Uh, this came out the other day. I’m going to link this in the show notes. [00:45:53] Um, uh, Moxie, who is, uh, the, um, the creator of, um, uh, one of the, uh, Moxie markets by [00:46:00] CU Marlin spike. Who’s one of the guys behind a signal wrote this incredibly technical and really good article about my first impressions of web three. And, um, you know, and, and he looks at it from both like a, a cryptography standpoint. [00:46:15] Um, you know, which as, as he points out, you know, like despite being a cryptographer, he had been drawn to crypto, which is true. Um, but he kind of talks about some of the problems that, that he’s seen. Within within crypto, as it exists right now, in what three, as it exists right now, specifically talking about how NFTs work and things like that. [00:46:34] And what do you think some of the challenges are, but also he’s not willing to write the whole thing off and that’s opened up some really interesting discussion points, I think, because you’ve seen some people who have, um, like this was like, I think one of the first times I’ve seen an article that didn’t. [00:46:51] seem like either this is the greatest thing ever, and everybody would better jump on board or the sky is falling and this is just a grift. [00:46:57] Like there’s a shitload of grift out there. [00:47:00] I don’t know if you saw any of the crypto land stuff this week, but there’s a shitload there. Uh, okay. I’ll uh, that’s we don’t have time to get into that, but th but there’s a shitload of grift, but there’s also, this is like, it seems like this is a real thing too. [00:47:15] You know what I mean? Like, I don’t know for me. And this was interesting in Kylie’s article, as well as she interviewed some people who talk about the fact that like, they don’t want to immediately, um, like. But they feel bad. Like they’re like, okay, if I discount what, um, this all is like, I’m going to be potentially like blocked from getting jobs. [00:47:37] If I, if I, as simply say, I don’t hate this on its face. So people are like afraid to even express any a bit of, um, like, I guess like sanity about this stuff, which to me is just stupid. Like, you know, Mozilla, Missoula doesn’t want to, if they don’t want to deal with the backlash. Like, I [00:48:00] think that like the, I think Jamie, isn’t completely within his rights at being like, I think this is a scam and gross and the way that you’re doing this, you know, to, to get a nation’s is gross thing. [00:48:09] That’s completely fine. I also think It’s completely fine. That Mozilla wants to take the donations. They’ve been taking the donations for a long time. like where was the outrage when they started taking donations? It just, I think it was the timing of ever. [00:48:21] Brett: It’s like when I said that I liked the matrix for resurrections and lost like 5,000 followers. No, I’m just kidding. That didn’t happen. And it’s nothing like that. Um, that’s, uh, that’s a lot of information I have more reading to do now. Thank you for, for the background though. That’s helpful. Um, [00:48:41] Christina: Yeah, no, it is interesting though, because it is becoming this like ideological, like question and it is, I think it’s putting a lot of technologists in a weird place where typically we are the early adopters and the people who embrace the new and you do see this like hesitancy towards this new thing in a way that you typically don’t see it with, with things that are [00:49:00] very clearly like trends in are happening. [00:49:02] So it’s interesting. [00:49:03] Brett: I have one more sponsor before I have a weird last topic for us. [00:49:08] Christina: Sure. [00:49:09] Brett: it’s my favorite sponsor. [00:49:12] Christina: Yeah. [00:49:12] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:49:12] Brett: What would you do with more hours every month? Repetitive typing, little mistakes, searching for answers. They’re all taking precious time away from you and your team with text expander. 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Over-tired listeners get 20% off their first year. So I highly recommend you visit Tex expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander that’s textexpander.com/podcast. Big, thanks to text expander, longtime supporters. [00:50:37] Christina: Houston porters. And we are huge users. [00:50:40] Queer Eye for the Sentimental Guy [00:50:40] Brett: so do you watch queer eye? [00:50:43] Christina: Uh, yes. [00:50:43] Brett: I, I hadn’t watched queer eye since season one, back when it was queer eye for the straight guy [00:50:51] Christina: Right, right. The [00:50:51] Brett: and, and I enjoyed it, it was fun, but I fell off. I, I got out, like I had a period of time where like [00:51:00] reality TV in general was still interesting. Like this is like season one of survivor when I gave a shit, um, [00:51:09] Christina: right. What was the new medium? [00:51:11] Brett: Yeah. And it was, it was interesting. I actually never got into the real world, but, um, but I did, I did get into survivor cause it was on in the rehab facility I was in and that’s all anyone wanted to watch. So I had like 30, 30 days in lockdown with nothing to watch, but survivor. So I got into it. Um, it did not, it did not last for me after rehab, but I did enjoy season one of queer eye for the straight guy. [00:51:37] So just out of curiosity, I watched the first episode of the new Netflix season of queer eye, more than a make-over. Um, and it blew me away. I was like, I was crying. I was, I don’t, I don’t cry, but, uh, especially the second [00:52:00] episode where it was the trans powerlifter. And like just the smile on her face when they like revealed her, her hair and makeup to her, it was, it, it just made me, it made me tear up. [00:52:16] But, uh, so I’m actually into it. Now I’ve watched three, three episodes of queer eye and I’m looking forward to more [00:52:25] Christina: I love it. I love it. And you wouldn’t know this because you didn’t watch the real world. And most people who are listening to this probably don’t know this because they weren’t continuing to watch the world world at this point. But, um, chromo, um, Cramo was, he was on rural Philadelphia in like 2004. Yeah, [00:52:42] Brett: I had no idea. That’s interesting. [00:52:44] Christina: yeah, yeah. [00:52:45] Uh, it was one of the, like, this was back like peak real-world. So like peak real world was like railroad Las Vegas. And then, because that was so successful because everybody fucked. Um, and like, there’s this girl, Michelle who’s like, just like [00:53:00] hardcore, just like. She fucked up. I think she fucked every dude on her season, which you go girl, whatever. [00:53:06] Like I’m not going to slut shame, but I’m just so fucked. One of my friends actually, um, uh, like she’s several years older than me, but, um, had a weird connection. Uh, my, one of my college roommates, boyfriends went to college boyfriend, went to college with her and like, yeah. Um, but, um, they were airing, like they had a couple of summer seasons where they would hear like to real-world seasons, like in a year, which historically had only been like one a year anyway. [00:53:33] He was on the Philadelphia season. Um, and, and he was like the first, like openly gay, like black guy on, um, on MTV and, um, uh, or I think maybe probably any reality show, um, and, uh, uh, It’s been great to see him, like, cause I hadn’t thought anything about him in forever. And when I first watched it, I was like, oh girl, hell yeah. [00:53:55] Um, but all of them are so great and you’re right. It is like a really [00:54:00] wholesome, like good show. Like it makes you feel good, [00:54:03] Brett: I really like that, that I have no idea what happened between the beginning and now, but I love that they go in with like relationship counseling, built into the show and, and just like general, uh, it’s therapy basically. But, and they combine it with, with like a home decor home. Make-overs home rental. [00:54:30] Christina: Yeah. [00:54:30] It’s like whole it’s like whole, whole lifestyle stuff. Yeah. Which they did, they did some of The home stuff in the original series, but they certainly didn’t do like the therapy and the stuff they did now. It was also the original series, you know, was because it was on Bravo in 2003 or whatever, you know, TV was different than it was much more about kind of the stereotypical, you know, like gay best friend kind of thing. [00:54:52] Right. So like, like even the personality of, of the, um, cast members who were all great, it was, it was a different type of [00:55:00] show. Right? Like, and, and now you have like, um, you know, um, uh, like it really does celebrate queerness, you know, like, like, um, um, uh, JVs is, is non-binary and like, you know, like there’s just a greater appreciation, like you said, you know, they have, um, have, have trans characters and they deal with relationship stuff and, and it’s, uh, it is a really wholesome, like good show. [00:55:21] I’m really glad you watched it because. Yeah. It’s it’s like one of the few like shows on TV that like does actually make you at least me anyway. I’m like, oh, like so much reality TV has become like the worst that you can see, [00:55:35] Brett: denominator. [00:55:37] Christina: which I watched. I love 90 day fiance. I love the [00:55:39] Brett: Oh my God. The, the, she, she had a heart attack for selling farts. What the fuck for anyone who missed this story? One of the contestants or whatever on 90 day, fiance had started a business where she was jarring and selling her farts. And she was living [00:56:00] on a steady diet of beans and eggs in order to create farts. [00:56:05] And that led to chest pains. And she went to the hospital thinking she was having a heart attack and they said, no, you’ve been eating too many beans. [00:56:16] Christina: You’re afraid [00:56:16] Brett: So she’s off the market. Now. She stopped selling farms. [00:56:20] Christina: off the market now. No. Now she’s selling [00:56:22] Brett: Oh God. [00:56:23] Christina: that I know. Right. Well, which is, I have to say, I love the Gripple a thing is the reason she was selling cars is people were like to talking about how well, you know, she was a good for nothing and whatnot. She was like, I’m not going to sell my news. [00:56:33] I could make more money. Selling farts then knew she was making like $200,000 a [00:56:37] Brett: 50 grand a week at its peak, [00:56:40] Christina: Yeah. [00:56:41] Brett: grand a [00:56:41] Christina: you know what, 50 grand a fucking week. [00:56:43] I can’t, I can’t even conceive of that much money, but you, you go girl, like, I’m glad, like don’t kill yourself. Like also I’m [00:56:52] Brett: I feel like you could, you could sell half as many parts and be fine. [00:56:55] Christina: you could also just being real. [00:56:58] I doubt the most [00:57:00] people buying the farts are opening them up. You know what I mean? [00:57:03] Brett: think they’re like putting them on the shelf with like a plaque [00:57:06] Christina: think that as a kid, I think it’s a kitsch thing. I think that it’s one of those things where people are just buying it because it’s funny. I don’t know how much they cost. I can’t imagine that cost that much. So for me, I would imagine like if somebody was selling something that ridiculous, I can almost be like, okay, I’m going to buy this because this is funny to [00:57:19] Brett: you, you are a very particular type of consumer who would, who would. [00:57:24] Christina: Okay. This is [00:57:24] Brett: Who would buy doge coin, who would buy farts just for a laugh [00:57:31] Christina: just for the LOLs. yeah, totally. Um, get totally, um, I mean, that’s fair. I don’t, but I, but again, I don’t know how many people are, are actually smelling the fart that they’re buying. I mean, who knows, maybe this really is a huge fetish market that I just don’t know enough about and that’s actually possible. [00:57:45] Although I would, I was still thinking I’d be like, girl outsource it. You know what I mean? Like if you’re making that much money out, it’s not like anybody’s going to know [00:57:52] Brett: I mean, I feel like you could probably come up with a chemical reaction that smelled similar to your farts and just [00:57:58] Christina: origin or you could [00:58:00] just hire, or you could just hire a bunch of. them [00:58:04] a hundred dollars to fart in a jar for you. If you’re making that many, you know what I mean? I’m just saying like, [00:58:10] Brett: a fart Pyre. [00:58:12] Christina: That’s what I’m saying. Like, like just, just, just like create, create a fart shop, like not a switch up a fart shop, you know, like I just, I feel like there’ll be other ways she could do it, but I, do feel like, um, uh, then shifting into NFTs is like the perfect way for that story to end. [00:58:26] That’s a fantastic story though. I’m very glad you brought that [00:58:28] Brett: I, uh, do you remember the, uh, the listener survey that we linked a while back? Uh, we did get some results from that. And I, there we have, most of our listeners are between 34 and 42 years old brain aging. Uh, we have one person was under 25 years old and one person was over 67 years old. Everyone else fell in the middle there. [00:58:54] Um, so I would like to say a special hello to our, our one [00:59:00] teenage listener and our one senior citizen. [00:59:05] Christina: Hell. Yeah, we appreciate both of you. [00:59:07] Brett: And, and, and Hey, thanks to all of you. 34 to 42 year olds out there. You, you, you make our, you make our day. Um, [00:59:15] Christina: I was going to say you, you are, you are us. You are totally us. Um, although I was told that I, Um, [00:59:21] the, I, think I told you this, the terminologist thought that I look twenty-five so like the nurse that I was [00:59:26] Brett: I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t argue with that. And not because I’m scared of you, you ha you have very young features. I am a little disappointed that we skew pretty heavily male. So shame on you to all the men who listened to this show for not sharing it with more women. [00:59:45] Christina: I was going to say, please, please share it with, with all the women in your life [00:59:49] Brett: I feel like this is, this is great feminine content that we make [00:59:54] Christina: Honestly, like we just spent five minutes talking about queer eye [00:59:59] Brett: and fucking [01:00:00] the Witcher. [01:00:00] Christina: fiance and the wisher absolutely fucking the Witcher. [01:00:03] hell yeah. Yes. Oh, he’s so hot. He’s so hot. [01:00:09] Brett: No argument here. [01:00:11] Christina: No, I mean, [01:00:12] Brett: If, if I could get pregnant that show would’ve made me [01:00:15] Christina: I was going to say, I was going to say like, I have no desire to be pregnant. [01:00:18] but I would, I would, I would have his baby, like. [01:00:22] Brett: I’m surprised there aren’t more babies named Gerald at this point. Like, I feel like if you look at the popularity of names, there should at least be a small peak in the name. Gerald. I w I, so if I hadn’t already named my next cat, which is going to be, um, uh, Roy, uh, why can’t I remember his name? It’s my cat’s name. [01:00:48] Roy from, uh, Ted lasso. [01:00:52] Christina: Yes. Yes, Roy. [01:00:54] Brett: Kent. Yes, our next cat, if it’s a boy and maybe if it’s a girl it’s going to [01:01:00] be named where I can’t, because he’s here, he’s there. He’s every fucking where, but if I hadn’t, if I hadn’t already picked it out, our next cat would be named Gerald [01:01:10] Christina: And that [01:01:10] Brett: or Jennifer for a girl. I [01:01:12] Christina: or [01:01:13] Brett: Jennifer book, Gerald. [01:01:15] Yeah, [01:01:16] Christina: Garrett. Gee, I liked Gerald. [01:01:17] Yeah, [01:01:17] So, I mean, I think Roy Kant makes the most sense cause you know, he’s, he’s, he’s here. He’s there he’s ever fucking where plus he’s a treasure, but um, Henry Cavill, a girl is also a treasure, so [01:01:31] Brett: my, my cats bod Ray Canton, Carol [01:01:36] Christina: that’s awesome. That’s [01:01:37] Brett: it’d be even better to me if they were all female cats and we just gave them [01:01:42] Christina: Yeah. I agree with that. Totally. Um, um, although Keely would be a good name for a cat too. Like if you couldn’t be a like you Roy and Kelly. [01:01:53] Brett: Um, I would also say that of our, of the people who responded to [01:02:00] this survey, they listened to zero other shows on the network. Like we’re the only show on backbeat media that they were responding for. That’s that’s loyalty, that’s just blind, blind loyalty, [01:02:16] Christina: I was going to say, thank you for following us, joining us if you’ve been with us for a long time, or if you’re new. Thank you for continuing to listen to us. We really appreciate it. [01:02:25] Brett: and the vast majority of respondents. Uh, when asked how often they would like us to release new episodes said once per week, uh, 62% said once per week, um, let’s see, nobody said once a month, uh, uh, w w we had about 20% said every two weeks was fine, which is that’s cool. That’s I like that. I like that pace. [01:02:48] And 88% said the episode blank should be exactly what it is. We’re getting it right. We’re nailing it. [01:02:58] Christina: Hell yeah. [01:02:59] Brett: person said [01:03:00] it should be shorter. One person said that overtired is too long. Speaking of we’re at an hour three right now, so [01:03:09] Christina: was going to say, I was speaking of, we’ve gone really long this episode, but like we have, well, we will, we’ve been gone for two weeks. so [01:03:15] I think this was important for us to get this, but this is really interesting information. Okay. [01:03:19] Brett: I’ll send you a copy. [01:03:21] Christina: Yes, please. Do I appreciate that. [01:03:23] Brett: right. Well, Christina, I hope you catch up on your sleep. So. [01:03:28] Christina: you. Thank you. And I hope that you have a great week continuing to catch up on TV and other stuff. Um, I will watch the Witcher, um, so that we can, uh, talk about how we want, um, a girl to get us pregnant, um, more in the future, because I think that’s important and, um, yeah, [01:03:44] Brett: All right. [01:03:44] Christina: have it, have a great [01:03:45] Brett: some sleep, Christina. [01:03:46] Christina: Get some sleep, Brett.

From overtired regrets to the death of Google Reader, this New Year’s episode will… I don’t know, keep you warm in the middle of winter? Or something. Sponsors Truebill keeps track of your subscriptions and makes cancelling them a snap. Start cancelling your unused subscriptions at truebill.com/overtired. It could save you THOUSANDS a year. Take 20% off your SimpliSafe System AND get your first month free when you sign up for the interactive monitoring service. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired. Show Links Don’t Look Up Adam Mckay GQ Interview Who the Fuck Cares About Adam Mckay – Vanity Fair Elf Funny or Die: Dying Laughing Hawkeye App.net Potential – Mashable Brett’s homemade Captcha Feedpress.com Shaun Inman Sparkle Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 269 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren here with Brett strep. Brett, how are you? [00:00:10] Brett: I am. I am well rested, but you know how, like when you sleep too much, you get super tired. [00:00:15] Christina: Yes, [00:00:16] Brett: Like I could go back to sleep, like right now I could fall asleep. [00:00:20] Christina: that’s funny. Yeah, I’ve had, okay, so I’m in Atlanta as we record this. So if I sound weird, this is why. And also if you, your intermittent dog barking in the background, I apologize. There is nothing I can do about the dogs. Um, same with, if you hear a baby, an errant baby cry, although hopefully that won’t be caught on audio anyway. [00:00:40] Um, yeah, I’m in Atlanta and I have had some good sleep, some not great sleep, but, uh, I do know what you’re talking about in terms of like, when you are sleeping for so long and then you’re like, Yeah. I just want to continue to sleep. [00:00:55] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. For like the last two nights I’ve slept like I think nine and a half hours. [00:01:00] [00:01:00] Christina: Wow. That’s good stuff. [00:01:01] Brett: Like my, like that, like last time we recorded, I’d been up for like two or three days and I was in rough shape and I don’t even, I don’t even know how that episode went. I was scared to listen to it. I did like rough edits and just published it because good Lord. [00:01:18] W w what do I say when I’m that tired? I don’t [00:01:20] Christina: Well, we had Brian on, well, we talked about anal sex is what happened. [00:01:24] Brett: I remembered that because I took a note that the title of the episode would be a real genius guide to anal sex, a literal genius. Got, but I don’t remember why it’s okay [00:01:37] Christina: the one who brought it up [00:01:38] Brett: Yeah, that adds up that that totally tracks. [00:01:42] Christina: really tracks. [00:01:42] Brett: Yeah. But anyway, um, the, uh, like shortly after that, I kinda like the mania broke and I just, I became stable, but I just wanted to sleep a lot, which is I’m cool. [00:01:58] I like sleeping it’s work. That’s where I’m [00:02:00] a pirate. Sorry, Ralph wigwam quote, I it’s people just, it, there was a [00:02:06] Christina: That’s where I’m a Viking. [00:02:07] Brett: there’s there’s like a, there’s like a, an era in time where it was okay to have a sentence quote for everything. And just like, just be able to like whip out the Simpsons quotes. And then it got to be like, oh, you’re, you’re stale. [00:02:21] If you do that. And then we hit now where it’s been long enough that [00:02:26] Christina: I feel like it’s coming back. [00:02:27] Brett: while young people have no idea, I don’t think [00:02:31] Christina: No, I don’t think they [00:02:31] Brett: no young people are going back and watching reruns of the Simpsons. They had their day. [00:02:37] Christina: Yeah, [00:02:38] I; mean, I don’t know. They might, they might not. it it’s, it’s interesting to me, I would be curious to talk to people about that. I feel like, I feel like this is one of the disadvantages of us being kind of like this peak TV period where there’s so much television, is that there is better television, in my opinion, that is that I would, I would, in some ways, love to have like young people [00:03:00] discover, like I would love, it’s not on streaming? [00:03:02] so that’s a whole other thing, but like news radio, which I contend is, is the greatest, you know, like workplace at com other than Mary Tyler Moore, and maybe Larry Sanders, depending on how you ranked that. [00:03:13] Um, I feel like young people would actually really like it and I feel like it holds up, you know, like it’s, it’s a Reverend and it’s funny. And the Simpsons, I don’t know. Um, it’s been on crackle intermittently. I mean, Sony owns it and it’s not like they, it’s not like it’s a rights issue. I have a feeling. [00:03:32] You know, it, it never did super well, but that was also because they changed the time slots, like 18 times. So it never had a chance to find an audience. It was critically acclaimed. Um, I mean, it did well enough for them to, to do all the DVDs and, and do some of the best commentary tracks I have to add. Um, like they got one of the, uh, executives who was responsible for moving it to all those various time slots because he didn’t like the show and they got him on one of the commentary tracks and basically got him [00:04:00] to admit, Yeah. [00:04:00] I just didn’t like her. Which is really funny. Um, but, um, I don’t know that that’s a weird, like omission I’m like that more than likely be cheap for Netflix or somebody to just grab. But I feel like there’s shows like that, that I feel like could you, well, um, again, some of the real classics, like Mary Tyler Moore show and cheers and, and, and even Frazier, you know, I feel like, um, a lot of, a lot of people would discover and the Simpsons it’s still in syndication and it’s still obviously airing, but I feel like, you know, like the first like saw like probably 13, 14 seasons, I mean, really the first eight are great, but you Can you can go well into, you know, the first 14 seasons where you still have good stuff and it’s so quotable, but especially those first seven seasons are just like perfect for seven, eight seasons. [00:04:53] There’s just like fantastic television. Um, I that, that I, I wish that, that maybe the younger [00:05:00] generation could discover it. I, know that when, before Disney bought, um, Um, when FX, uh, launched their app or whatever, this was God, probably seven years ago. They had like an, every Simpsons ever marathon where they brought it to streaming. [00:05:17] And you could like, they have like a special place in the app where you could like watch all the Simpsons episodes and then Disney sort of ruined that a little bit. They, they fixed it when, when they, when they made it part of Disney plus, but like for the first year or so, they, they fucked up what Fox had fixed, which was originally like, they reframed everything is like 16 by nine instead of four by three. [00:05:39] And it’s like, you miss out on jokes and shit. Um, and then, um, and then Disney finally, after a year, like fix that, but they were slow to it. I’m like, come on, like literally the work was done for you. Like the, the other app that had this whole Simpsons rolled aspect, like fixed it. But, but the Simpson’s world aspect, like the Simpsons world app, like even had [00:06:00] some of the extra features and commentaries and things like that, which I don’t think Disney has brought over. [00:06:05] I don’t know, it’s a shame because the Simpsons is one of these, like, it’s hard. It’s, it’s hard to remember. Like, I was seven when it started, but it’s like hard to remember what it was like before the Simpsons existed, because it’s literally been on TV more than some longer than some of our listeners have been alive. [00:06:25] So [00:06:26] Brett: can I can I tell you great. Doesn’t listen to the show, right? [00:06:29] Christina: he does not [00:06:30] Brett: Okay. Um, I’m going to tell you this and, and I mean, no offense, cause I don’t know, grant all that well, like I only knew grant as kind of the editor of download squad and we didn’t have a lot of interaction outside of that, but in my mind he was always comic book guy. [00:06:49] Christina: Oh, totally. Totally. Um, no, no. Um, I mean, although the weird thing is like, he’s not that into the comic book things, [00:07:00] but, but yeah, he can be pedantic like that. [00:07:04] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s so much about the comic books as the, uh, just the, uh, the, uh, cervic pedantic. Yeah. [00:07:11] Christina: Nick beard. Nick beard. Yeah, totally. [00:07:13] Brett: I, I I’ve always loved grant. Don’t don’t take that the wrong [00:07:16] Christina: Oh, I don’t, I don’t know. I mean, trust me. Yeah. You’re not wrong. Um, I’m also glad he doesn’t listen to this because he would probably be offended, but you’re not wrong at all. So [00:07:25] Brett: Do you think that the Simpsons are doing themselves a disservice by being, by putting out new episodes? [00:07:32] Christina: at this point, [00:07:33] Brett: I agree. I, I feel like they’re tarnishing their legacy with every mediocre season that comes out now. [00:07:39] Christina: I agree. I feel like family guy is the same way. [00:07:42] Brett: Oh my God. Timely guy [00:07:44] Christina: I haven’t watched it in years totally. But you know, what’s fucked up. American dad still funny. [00:07:49] Brett: I, I never got into American dad, but now that you say that maybe like, I still enjoy Bob’s burgers. I consider Bob’s burgers far superior to Simpson’s [00:08:00] or, or family guy at [00:08:02] Christina: 100%. Oh, it’s it’s it still is. And it’s been on for a long time now. Right. But like Bob’s burgers I think is still good. Um, yeah. Simpsons, you know, they’ve gone through so many, I mean, it’s hard because you’ve got this legacy show. Um, the licensing and stuff is still selling like gangbusters. Like I was, I was shopping a couple of days before Christmas and I was in like the kid’s department and I saw so much Simpson’s shit. [00:08:29] And I was like, I was like, apparently it’s making kind of a retro comeback. And, and I was like, okay, that’s a thing again, you know? And that’s happened several times in my lifetime. Like I remember. You know, first came out. It was like everywhere and I was six or seven. I think I just turned seven when it started. [00:08:47] And, um, cause like the, the Christmas episode or whatever. And then it just, you know, uh, fell out of favor and then came back in again. And I think then, you know, had another kind of, uh, you know, resurgence when the movie came out and [00:09:00] now it seems like, at least with the merge, I don’t know about the show itself. [00:09:03] Cause I don’t know, who’s watching the show, but there, I saw a number of Bart Simpson things and I was like, Huh? [00:09:11] Okay. So I wonder if that’s part of like why they continue making it. I do know that they’ve had, um, Contract disputes with the voice actors. And there was even a time when, when I, I think it was, I think it was Harry share, but it might’ve been the, um, um, the other, um, Dan castle, Anita, who was like, I’m not going to do the voices anymore. [00:09:35] And then they were like, okay, bye. But then they did negotiate before, like they started recording again. Um, because you know, th those, those voice actors traditionally are not well-paid people, but the Simpson’s voice cast is obviously, and absolutely, you know, like, uh, uh, Nancy Cartwright, who’s a Bart Simpson. [00:09:56] I mean, she’s, she makes, I think she still commands like a [00:10:00] ridiculous fee per episode considering, you know, she’s doing recordings. Um, and I mean, she probably makes an episode like that would, would align well with live action stars. Um, assuming they weren’t like Oscar winning celebrity. [00:10:16] Brett: Sure, sure. [00:10:16] Christina: But, um, but yeah, I mean, I, you know, they, they keep trying to cut the budget, but I guess the ratings and the licensing it should is still there. [00:10:23] But I do feel like, like the legacy is becoming tarnished the longer it goes on. [00:10:29] Brett: Speaking of watching things, [00:10:31] Christina: Yes. [00:10:32] Brett: uh, if you’ve ever wanted to make your home feel safer, there’s no better time than now. [00:10:35] Christina: Hi, perfect. [00:10:37] Sponsor: Simplisafe [00:10:37] Brett: Because right now, our friends at simply safe are giving overtired listeners access to their all new holiday deals, 20% off their award-winning home security. And your first month is free. [00:10:47] When you sign up for the interactive monitoring service, we love simply safe because it has everything you need to make your home safe, indoor and outdoor cameras. Comprehensive sensors, all monitored around the clock by trained professionals [00:11:00] who send help. The instant you need it simply safe was even named the best home security system of 2021. [00:11:06] By us news and world report, you can easily customize the system for your home and online in minutes. Bri custom recommendations. There are no long-term contracts or commitment. It’s a really easy way to start feeling a bit more peace of mind in the new year. So hurry and take 20% off your simply safe system and get your first month for free. [00:11:28] When you sign up for the interactive monitoring service visit, simply safe. S I M P L I S a F e.com/overtired. Again, that simply safe.com/overtired for 20% off your entire system. [00:11:44] Don’t Look Now [00:11:44] Brett: And again, speaking of watching things, not a sponsor lead-in um, did you, so I, I, I got like, I’ve logged on to Netflix and the big, like, uh, like hero ad that they showed was for, [00:12:00] uh, something I’d never heard of called don’t look up. [00:12:03] And I, all of a sudden was hearing about it on Twitter and Facebook people talking about how great it was. And so I watched it, I had, you know, I, the day after Christmas, not technically boxing day, I think in Europe, if Christmas falls on a Saturday boxing day is on Monday. I’m not European. I don’t know. [00:12:24] But anyway, day after Christmas, nothing to do, I watch don’t look up. Loved it. That was Netflix did a good one. Netflix said a good thing. [00:12:32] Christina: They did know it was really? good. So that’s Adam McKay, uh, who did the big, um, the big short and, and obviously, and beep and in a prior life, before he moved to doing more serious films, he did all of the will Ferrell comedies that we love, like stepbrothers and Talladega nights. Yeah. [00:12:50] Brett: that adds up. I love [00:12:51] Christina: Um, and, uh, yes, they’re brothers [00:12:53] Brett: just become best friends? [00:12:55] Christina: Oh my God. Yes, that’s so good. Um, and, uh, [00:13:00] and so he’s actually, and, um, I know, I, [00:13:02] thought it was really good. I thought it was, it was really, really good. I really enjoyed both the, I enjoyed all the performances. Sorry, go on. [00:13:09] Brett: well, no, I was just going to say I tweeted that I liked it and someone wrote back. I thought it was a depressing look at our, at the current times. And I was like, yeah, that’s, that’s the fucking point. It’s definitely a commentary on political divides. And the fact that half the population can deny something they can see with their own eyes. [00:13:31] Christina: No, it totally is. Right. And it’s totally kind of one of those expressing like depressing kind of things. And I’m like, yep. I, I, I was into it. Um, [00:13:40] Brett: laugh, what can you do? [00:13:42] Christina: no, I agree. Um, I also encourage people if you haven’t read it already to read the profile in GQ with Adam McKay, um, from earlier this month, or I guess last month when you’re listening to this, because this was early December and it’s, uh, it’s really good. [00:13:59] Um, [00:14:00] it shares the unfortunate, sad news that he and will Ferrell are no longer friends. [00:14:04] Brett: how do you not be friends with Wolf Farrell? How does [00:14:06] Christina: Well, Okay. So they were business partners and, uh, they had like a, you know, a production company together. And then they’d kind of fell out, fell apart a little bit working wise, just because the type of stuff that Adam McKay is making is different. [00:14:21] Although it’s funny because like Adam McKay took a certain number of properties will took a certain number and then succession is the one they’re sharing, which makes sense. Cause that’s, you know, uh, such a hit. but, [00:14:33] Brett: Yeah. [00:14:33] Christina: but, um, what happened is he’s working on this show about the Lakers for HBO and will Farrell wanted to be the, um, like one of the, one of the coaches and Adam McKay thought that someone else would be better in the role. [00:14:50] And he admits this in the interview. He’s like, rather than. Telling him, he just went ahead and cast his best friend, John C. Riley in his place. [00:15:00] And then John C. Riley was like a good guy who reached out and was like, Hey, I’m going to take this part. Um, and, um, yeah, so the, the business and kind of the personal relationship is, is, is not in a good place at all, which is really sad because they were like really, really close. [00:15:16] But, um, I’m hopeful. He’s done like a lot of press around this stuff. I, I I’m hopeful that maybe they will, uh, be able to make up because that was a very sad bromance sort of thing to me because Yeah. [00:15:29] you know, it was like, it’s like the team behind Talladega nights and, and, and, and, you know, stepbrothers and anchorman and. [00:15:34] Brett: Well, and it’s so like, will Ferrell fascinates me because he seems like the kind of guy, like, if you had no idea, if you had never heard anyone talk about like his personal life and you only knew him from his comedy, it would be easy to assume that he was a total asshole to two people in his personal life. [00:15:55] Like, [00:15:55] Christina: I can see that. [00:15:56] Brett: because so much of his comedy is built around this personality. [00:16:00] That is, that is that that’s an asshole. Um, but then you hear people talk about like what a great guy, what a great friend he is, how nice he is to everybody. Uh, and I find, I find will Farrell fascinating. want to be friends with will Ferrell. [00:16:18] Christina: Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. And I’m sorry, it wasn’t, uh, it wasn’t GQ. It was vanity fair that the article was, it was in. Um, but I um, I, uh, there was a good interview in GQ as well, but yeah, no, I agree. I want to be friends with will Ferrell. [00:16:30] So funnily enough, uh, we watched my family. They hadn’t ever seen it, which I don’t know how, um, I guess, because I was maybe out of the house the year that it came out, but, uh, we’d never watched elf [00:16:41] Brett: Oh my God, [00:16:41] Christina: out, so we watched alpha and Christmas, which was great. [00:16:44] Brett: was like the first year. And in a few years we didn’t watch Alfon Christmas, but that is a great Christmas movie. [00:16:50] Christina: It is a great Christmas movie. I love that movie so much. And now apparently with that one, John Fabro, who went on to, to direct, uh, the first iron man and were the first two Ironman. And, [00:17:00] um, you know, he’s an actor, but he’s gone on to be incredibly successful director. [00:17:03] Brett: to a Mandalorian. [00:17:05] Christina: Yes. Um, he, um, directed elf and apparently he, according to James Khan, he and will Ferrell did not get along, which that’s. And that’s why there was never a SQL because will Ferrell, apparently in his contract had like permission for who the director could be. And it was one of those things. He was like, well, I’m not going to work with John Fabro. And you know, they, maybe, they couldn’t go forward with an elf to, without, you know, John Fabro. [00:17:29] Brett: maybe will is a bit of an asshole. [00:17:31] Christina: Maybe he is, I don’t know. I mean, most people seem to like him, but you know what? I have a feeling, I feel I’m feeling he’s a good guy, but [00:17:37] Brett: he has like an NDA. He makes people, he meet sign. [00:17:40] Christina: maybe, or maybe what it is is like, he’s a good guy, but he’s actually like a pretty shrewd and good businessman. And he’s not going to be like fucked over on stuff. [00:17:49] Like maybe like, which fair enough. Right. You don’t get to be both feral if you are like not, you know, taking that sort of shit seriously. [00:18:00] And Adam McCabe then admitted in the vanity fair thing that he like probably fucked up by not like being direct with this friend about being like, Hey. I’d rather cast John C. [00:18:11] Riley in this part, you know, like that does seem like that’s kind of a fucked up kind of like thing. So, [00:18:18] Brett: Um, yeah, let’s see. I was thinking there was something that came to mind about Wilf. Oh, why do the funnier dye app stop working? Did they just stop caring about funny or die? Did [00:18:30] Christina: Oh, I think it went out of business. Yeah. I think I’m almost pretty, I’m almost positive. Like they sold it for, for, for magic beans or something. They find there was a, there was a ringer article, I think about the death of funnier die, but yeah, funny your diet was good stuff. Um, and, uh, let me see if I can find the, the ringer article about it. [00:18:48] Uh, the hilarious live and agonizing death of online comedy. There we go. Um, it is, this article is three and a half years old and I remembered it, [00:19:00] which I don’t know what that says [00:19:02] Brett: like a bear trap. [00:19:04] Christina: I was going to say, I don’t know what that says about me that like, I could, I could remember like the exact article, like, like the, the publication rather. [00:19:11] Um, but yeah, [00:19:13] Brett: we still tell the same stories over and over on this [00:19:16] Christina: I was going to say, that’s the thing, like I have like this, this, this selective memory is a really screwed up thing. Uh, so yeah, but funny or die, like they, yeah, they kind of ran out of money and, and steam, I mean, similar thing has happened to kind of the onion and, um, [00:19:30] Brett: happened to the union? [00:19:32] Christina: well, you know, they sold it to, to Univision and then Univision, uh, made it part of like the Gawker empire. [00:19:39] And then that was sold to the, uh, private equity flux who, um, have basically. So much of the resources. Oh, and the most recent thing with the onion nav club is that if you remember a number of God, it was more than a decade ago. Now they had like a big move where they made everybody move to Chicago because that’s where the onion was going to be. [00:19:58] Well, now, at least for [00:20:00] AB club, and I don’t know about onion, proper, the new editor and chief of AB club is an L is in Los Angeles. So they’ve told everybody, they’re like, oh, if you want to work, if you want to basically continue to have a job, you have to move to LA from Chicago. Um, and they’re like, oh, well, it’s not mandatory. [00:20:15] But if you want to stay employed, you have to move. And then it gets, it gets worse. Like they, they’re going to give them $5,000 in Phoenix fences, [00:20:24] Brett: Wow. To go to LA. [00:20:27] Christina: yeah. From Chicago. And I’m like, um, wow. [00:20:32] Brett: hope they’re also doubling their salary. [00:20:34] Christina: Yeah. You know, they’re not, um, so. [00:20:38] Brett: AOL offered when, when AOL wanted to move us all to San Francisco, uh, it was optional, especially for those of us who had always been remote workers, but they basically offered to double our salary. If we [00:20:50] Christina: Right, which is w [00:20:51] Brett: which still wouldn’t have covered cost of living for me. [00:20:54] Christina: 100%, but that is the correct thing to do. Like when mashville moved me to New York. Okay. [00:21:00] The original offer of how much they were going to pay me and moving, and expenses was laughable and I laughed at it. And then they gave me $10,000, which I, I don’t know if that covered it, but, but it came much closer. [00:21:11] They did give me a raise. And then I got there and Vadim had been poached by Facebook. And so they were really freaked out. And so then they gave me another raise, literally the day I arrived. So, you know, um, and, and we were small then, like we were super, super small, then we certainly weren’t, you know, owned by private equity flux. [00:21:31] So, um, but anyway, uh, that was, that was a weird tangent, but, um, [00:21:38] Brett: Yeah. [00:21:39] Christina: I’m looking at our notes. Uh, so you, you, we talked about this in the last episode, Hawkeye or two episodes ago with, with Victor. Um, so you caught up on Hawkeye. What did you [00:21:47] Brett: Yeah. Oh yeah. So I, I had been waiting to start it because we wanted to do like wash party style with my, my girlfriend’s sister. And we finally started and we basically finished it in [00:22:00] a week and I, I enjoyed it. I don’t think I loved it as much as. Some other people did, but it was, it did remind me more of the Netflix Marvel series, which I loved like Jessica Jones and Daredevil Punisher. [00:22:18] Like that stuff was gold to me, everything except for iron fist. But, um, [00:22:23] Christina: Yeah. Iron fist was, it was, it was Tara. [00:22:25] Brett: like Hawk, I got closer to that type of Marvel show and, and I did appreciate it. [00:22:32] Christina: Yeah, and I liked it. I liked, you know, kind of like the way that it ended. Like it makes it clear that will makes it. [00:22:37] hopeful. I guess there’ll be a second season. Um, and, and also makes it, uh, I, I wanna, I want to know more about, um, uh, uh, Clint’s wife, um, Linda Cardinale, like her character, like the stuff they were alluding to. [00:22:50] I was like, oh, she’s really interesting. I would like to her to have like her own kind of show or her own kind of thing. Um, I thought that Haley Seinfeld was just really, really [00:23:00] good in it. And, and her chemistry with, um, uh, Florence, um, pew who played, um, um, the Yulaina, um, uh, Blackwood. It was sister, um, new black widow. [00:23:13] I thought that their chemistry was really good too, but, um, I’ve never liked Jeremy Renner and I never really cared for Hawk item. [00:23:19] Brett: Yeah. [00:23:20] Christina: But of The, Marvel shows. Um, my ranking would go like, at least on Disney plus my ranking would go one division, Hawkeye low-key. And then I suppose if we have to have a ranking, then captain America and the winter soldier, um, uh, because that, that shit was is bad. [00:23:37] Um, and, [00:23:39] Brett: uh, what was the what’s it. Oh, the guy with the wings. What’s the guy with Mackie? Uh, no, no. [00:23:48] Christina: Anthony [00:23:48] Brett: Yeah. Uh, what was that show called? Uh, some ho ho what’s it. What’s that character’s name? I can’t think of the winged characters name. It’s not [00:24:00] Hawkeye. That’s a different guy. Anyway, Anthony, Mackie’s amazing that sh that sh that series was, eh, [00:24:09] Christina: Yeah, no captain America. [00:24:13] Brett: um, no, no, it was something and it was something in something and it wasn’t, it wasn’t just captain America. No, no. It was something in the winter soldier. Y [00:24:28] Christina: Um, [00:24:30] Brett: Y Siri, I’m not even talking to you. Um, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Uh, we agree it wasn’t the best one division. I think, I think I might actually. [00:24:43] Yeah, no, Wanda vision was better. [00:24:45] Christina: Yeah. Oh, here. Here’s what I’ll say. It was the Falcon of the winter [00:24:48] Brett: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. [00:24:50] Christina: Sorry. Um, okay. So if I’m being completely objective, I feel like Hawkeye was a better paced show. Like I feel like Hawkeye nailed the pacing and [00:25:00] six episodes. I feel like they nailed that stuff and their action sequences, the way they were done were good. [00:25:04] I feel like the pacing was better, but emotionally won division for me was the best, like to me, like that’s where it like, it, it really just like got me. I felt like also the creative risks they took, but if I be completely objective, I think that objectively I could, I could see someone making the argument that Hawkeye is a better show. [00:25:24] Uh, I just personally. Have more of an emotional connection and got more out of one division. But I feel like Hawkeye the pacing, especially they nailed like the whole kind of storytelling arc with it. Like they, they had that shit down. [00:25:39] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I like that. That I don’t, like, I don’t know anything about the comic series. I know that he, he was deaf and, uh, and bringing that into the show was, was kind of a big deal for the comic fans, but I don’t know how the female co lead, [00:26:00] uh, plays like, is she a character in the comics? [00:26:03] Christina: I think she is And I think her name? [00:26:06] Is, Kate Bishop. Um, [00:26:08] Brett: does she have like a lady Hawk name? [00:26:10] Christina: I think she might, I don’t, I don’t know all those details. Uh, God, I wish that we had my friend demon on because he would know all the answers to [00:26:16] Brett: where is the man? Why don’t we ever have D man on. [00:26:20] Christina: We should have demon on, honestly, actually this is kind of fun. So I’ve for the last year or so like, oh, we haven’t done it in a, in a few weeks or in a, in a few months, I guess I should say, but me and a bunch of people who I’m new to their, their group, I know Ben, but I didn’t know anybody else. [00:26:34] We started doing Twitter spaces when Twitter spaces was first, like in beta or whatever, where we would talk about one division and then we would talk about the other Marvel shows and we’ve, it’s become like a really fun group chat. Um, and, um, and demon used to work at Twitter and, um, and he knows like all the shit about the comics, which is awesome because I don’t know anything about that. [00:26:57] Um, I really know, but [00:27:00] I really liked, uh, I liked what they did also the, the deaf actress that they cast, um, uh, Who, uh, she’s apparently getting her own spinoff and, um, Yeah, Maya is apparently getting a spinoff and, and she, she was good and I like it, the cast and actually deaf actress and she has a, um, um, a, uh, a fake, um, a foot or leg or whatever. [00:27:24] So prosthesis. [00:27:26] there you go. Um, so that was pretty awesome. [00:27:30] Brett: Cool. Um, what, what this is. Okay. I have to, my brain is, has gone two directions, um, which I believe the word ambivalent, like people use ambivalent to mean they don’t care, but ambivalent actually means of two minds, which is where I’m at right now. Like a, I can totally lead into our second, our second and last sponsor of the day. [00:27:58] And B [00:28:00] I have this question about app.net. I know it’s a dead service, but if you had to pick which way would you go, [00:28:06] Christina: I think that you could go from app.net to our second sponsor actually, because it was a subscription. So I think let’s go to, let’s see, let’s go to app.net and then we can, then we can segue into our second. [00:28:16] Brett: I’m curious to hear your take on, on what it would take for something like app.net to actually succeed, uh, for anyone who doesn’t remember apt.net. I think it’s so there’s Mastodon, right? Which continues to exist as like a federated version of a social media site, uh, where everyone can run their own Massad on servers and, and they can, they can federate, um, app.net really tried to be more of a, uh, an API based competitor to Twitter directly. [00:28:56] And, and it, they didn’t make it like so many [00:29:00] others before them. They, they failed. I’m curious what it would take to actually succeed. Obviously you’re not going to unseat Twitter, but there’s gotta be a place there’s, there’s gotta be like, you have to be able to get to a critical mass where you could actually, I don’t know. [00:29:20] What would it take to survive? [00:29:22] Christina: I don’t know. I mean, it’s really difficult because, and, and, and of course fucking Mashables archive the way they ruin everything. I can’t find my very, very good. Uh, eulogy for app.nec, uh, app.net, which I paid for. Um, and, and, and actually that’s how Brianna and I have met, um, was, was we became like apt.net friends. [00:29:45] I don’t know. I mean, the thing about app.net is that it was audacious insofar as like you had to pay to be on it and, and, and how much you paid was, was deferred. But, but it was one of those services that asked you to pay to be on it, which is one of those things that many, many [00:30:00] people always claim. Oh, well, if I was asked to pay for this or that, I would, the truth of the matter is they won’t. [00:30:06] Um, we talked, uh, last episode about a live journal, which did succeed [00:30:12] Brett: Uh, do you remember that through my head? [00:30:15] Christina: well, we’ll live journal was interesting in so far as they had, you had to have an invite code once their server capacity issues were so massive. Ridiculous. Like in the early two thousands that T to grow, you know, they had to continue buying service-based. [00:30:30] This was before you had cloud computing. This was before you had other stuff, like, like Brad was literally going to like internet and like setting the Bracks and stuff and, and, and trying it to get capacity. And so they needed money to go to pay for this. And so how they did that in the early days is that they said, okay, if you pay $15 or $25 or whatever it is, you can buy an invite code and, and get into the platform. [00:30:52] But then you can also pay, or existing members could have a certain number of invites that they could give to other people who could start, um, a journal for [00:31:00] free. So it was one of those things, like you either had to know somebody who had a code or you had to buy one to get on the service. Um, for a couple of years, I think, I think that’s how the process worked. [00:31:08] And that was the way they had to kind of, you know, in a pre-Facebook kind of world where he wasn’t taking venture capital, like you had to, to scale that way. And I think that that would be. If you were wanting to do it, I mean, look, obviously you can’t create a new social network because Tik TOK has proof of that. [00:31:33] Um, uh, Tik TOK was born out of, uh, musically, which was a singing app that, uh, wasn’t that successful in the U S and, and some of that was bought. And then the, the, the Chinese turned it into, I think the most recent reports of showing that it’s like the most popular website in the U S or something like that, um, for like the last couple of months or whatever, and, uh, you know, superseding traffic from all the other [00:32:00] social networks and other big sites. [00:32:02] Um, so, so Tik TOK is I think, proof that you can build another network. Um, Tik TOK is interesting in so far as it’s. I think it’s one of the first kind of modern social networks that is not directly tied to an identity graph, meaning I’m following interests. And I have people who might look me up in my contacts and follow me. [00:32:23] I’m not posting anything, but it’s not like most people I follow on Tik TOK on my friends. I’m mostly following other people and other sorts of interests. So it’s a very different experience than, you know, something like Facebook or even Twitter. Um, which I think at this point, a lot of people follow people, they know, and you, you find other people through stuff, but for what APTA net could have done in terms of like a federated open, kind of paid for thing. [00:32:48] I don’t know. I mean, I feel like obviously the thing that made it cool and special and in saved it from, you know, becoming kind of like a, an also ran was the fact that you had to pay, but that was [00:33:00] also the limiting factor in it too. So [00:33:03] Brett: if they’d gone more for the white supremacists, [00:33:06] Christina: maybe, no, I [00:33:09] Brett: gone for like a gab feel. [00:33:11] Christina: Yep. Totally, totally. Although, you know, gab is you used Mastodon or something and then mass on had to, had to ban a lot of the different mass on instances had to ban, you know, gab or this or that. I don’t know. I mean, I feel like honestly, the cool thing, the cool idea behind app.net was that it was an API sort of thing. [00:33:27] And the whole concept that Dalton had was that you could create, not just Twitter, Twitter was one example, but you wanted to use it as something where you could do a number of other things. And like he had, I think it was called pick plays. I can’t remember what it was, but he had an Instagram competitor that was out at the same time as Instagram and Instagram one. [00:33:45] Um, and then, you know, he, he did app.net and obviously that failed. Um, he has really good ideas though. You know, he, he’s a smart guy. I wonder though, if they’d been able to show like other use cases, like if, if people have [00:34:00] been able to build other types of apps, you know, on top of it, [00:34:03] Brett: did try that. [00:34:05] Christina: they did but it was, but it was limited. [00:34:07] I feel like, I feel like if somebody, okay, I’ll put it this way. I think that. if somebody had been able to, this was, you know, seven, eight years ago, if somebody had been able to build something like discord on top of app.net, I feel I got.net would have worked because I feel like I think that. that’s the way it could have worked. [00:34:27] Brett: Yeah. That makes sense, man. The I’ve never been on Tik TOK. The only tick-tock I’ve ever watched is like Tik TOK compilations on YouTube because I’m old. I’m almost 50. I mean, if 43, if you round up by 10, um, I’m almost 50 and I feel like I’m too old for I’m too old for tic-tac feel like it’s passed me by [00:34:52] Christina: I mean maybe, I mean, that’s the interesting thing. Tik TOK has so many different, it’s kind of like Twitter in so far as like you have all these sub genres of tech talk. So there’s like [00:35:00] old people. [00:35:01] Brett: is there really, [00:35:02] Christina: There is, is it [00:35:03] Brett: is it as racist as old people to it? [00:35:07] Christina: I think it? [00:35:07] depends on what part of old people tick-tock, you’re in on. [00:35:12] And I Did find my, uh, I did find my, uh, thing lacking all of the paragraphs and, and links, but I had a Requiem for a social platform, app.net unrealized potential. Christina Warren May 8th, 2014. [00:35:27] Brett: throw it in the show notes. [00:35:28] Christina: I will throw it in the show notes. [00:35:32] Brett: So speaking of subscriptions [00:35:35] Christina: Yes. [00:35:36] Sponsor: Truebill [00:35:36] Brett: and, and speaking of keeping an eye on things, Multiple lead-ins. So if you’re suffering from way too many subscriptions syndrome, there is a way out and you don’t even have to talk to anyone. Let true bill, do the work and set you free average users can save $720 a year using true bill. [00:35:59] True [00:36:00] bill is the new app that helps you identify and stop paying for subscriptions you don’t need, want, or simply forgot about. On average, people are saving thousands a year with true bill. See all your subscriptions in one place. Uh, keep the ones you want and cancel the ones you don’t right from the app. [00:36:16] And your true bill concierge is there when you need to cancel unwanted subscriptions. So you don’t have. No talking to humans, no difficult conversations. I’ve been using true bill for a while now. And, uh, in addition to seeing all of my subscriptions and getting notified when they change even a penny, uh, I also love how it categorizes my income and my spending automatically to budget without me ever having to do any traditional bookkeeping because I suck at paperwork and true bill makes it all automatic. [00:36:46] It tells me like, keeps me heads up when my, uh, my paychecks are coming up, tells me how much I have left to spend, uh, before my next paycheck helps me keep track of my savings. It it’s it’s. [00:37:00] Great for managing subscriptions, but honestly, it’s so much more than that. Uh, so start canceling your unused subscriptions@truebill.com slash over tired. [00:37:09] Go right now. True bill.com/overtired. It could save you thousands a year. That’s true. bill.com/overtired. [00:37:19] Cable Cutters [00:37:19] Brett: Speaking of overtired, wait. No, that’s what we were already doing. [00:37:23] Christina: That’s what we were already doing. No, but, um, I, I appreciate that, uh, that last Saturday, because, you know, I canceled cable. I needed something like true bill in my life to, to get me to probably realize how much I was spending [00:37:36] Brett: Oh, my God cable cable killed me. Cause like, I, I, I cut the cord. I cut the cord before, like Netflix was that read even a streaming service. Like you still had to get DVDs from Netflix when I, when I cut cable. But then after a couple of years, I was like, you know, maybe, maybe I miss cable. Maybe I’ll, I’ll get it again. [00:37:56] And I try it for a month. And like, it was a hundred bucks [00:38:00] a month and I found like two shows I wanted to watch. And it just, even, even before the glut of streaming services we have now, it just was not worth it to me. [00:38:13] Christina: Well, so a friend of mine has me. [00:38:15] on his YouTube TV family plan for now. So I can test and see if, if I like that there is a good chance that I will wind up subscribing to YouTube TV, which just for local channels, which is still way too much to pay. And then for some other stuff, because sometimes I do like to watch linear stuff, but even if I were to do that, I would be saving like $150 a month if I paid for like the most expensive YouTube TV plan, like including HBO, max. [00:38:43] And, and so I would $150 a month, like. Uh, when I was, when I, when I did the math and I was like, I realized, cause they’d raised my bill a couple of times and I guess I hadn’t realized it cause I’m dumb. And I, I, you know, did the chat thing to canceled with Comcast and, and then they [00:39:00] like offered me the deal. [00:39:01] He offered me, it was like not anywhere close. And I was like, Yeah. [00:39:04] this is still more than double what I would be paying, um, uh, YouTube TV. I can’t do it. They were like, we understand. So, uh, [00:39:14] Brett: these days. [00:39:15] Christina: Yeah, I’m sure. Well, well what’s funny is I’m potentially even looking for my parents. Like maybe getting them YouTube TV. [00:39:23] Cause it’s funny. Cause they get their internet through Comcast. I do not, if I did, I probably could have gotten an even better deal, but I have fiber, but like Comcast at this point they have this thing called like, like, uh, like Xfinity flex and basically they will send like their internet subscribers, like a free set top box, kind of like a Roku type of thing where you can, you know, watch like, you know, your, your apple TV and your, um, Hulu and your Disney plus and all that shit. [00:39:51] They now even give you the option of like watching YouTube TV on it. So you could subscribe to YouTube TV through it. And I’m like, at a certain [00:40:00] point, I doubt that con if Comcast, I wonder how much they care if they’re like, okay, well, as long as you’re using one of our boxes and, and paying for stuff through us, We don’t really care. [00:40:11] You know, who’s, I mean, I’m sure they prefer people to pay for their overpriced, um, uh, cable, but at a certain point too, I feel like they are at least being smart enough to be like, Yeah. [00:40:23] we are, we are in fact just a dumb pipe. And so we, we better make it easy to do that. Um, but, Uh, I see, um, But that, that was a long segue. [00:40:37] The cable thing, this happened literally right before I left town. And so I, um, it’ll be interesting to see like what impact that has on things, but, but thank you, Jeremiah, for letting me be in your YouTube family. Uh, one weird thing about that. So if you are in someone else’s YouTube TV, family, and you don’t live in the same area, it’s a problem when you [00:41:00] first want to log in because they’re like, oh, this account hasn’t been in the home viewing area, which in his case is Charlotte. [00:41:06] So to get around it, I had to, um, use, uh, dev tools in, um, uh, edge to spoof my, uh, lat and long coordinates, um, on my desktop, uh, to make it seem like I was in Charlotte. And then I was able to, to log into my account that. [00:41:25] Brett: shocked if there’s not already an extension for that. [00:41:28] Christina: I mean, there probably is, but in this case, like some of those extensions, like they want to use your wifi, your IP stuff, and that was not what I wanted. So it was actually easier for me to just do it in depth tools and, and then that, and so I switched my location in that regard, um, in the browser session, uh, made it look like I was in, um, Charlotte, then I was able to watch things. [00:41:47] Then I was able to go into an app on another thing in, in log, in like locally and see my local channels. So, um, if anybody runs into that same problem, that’s what you have to do. Uh, and then apparently like every three or four months, you have to [00:42:00] like log in from your home viewing area of whoever that might be. [00:42:03] So I, I pointed this out just for anyone who might want to share with like less tech savvy family members. You might want to rethink that. Um, or like, You know, um, be in a position where you could like remote screen control their, uh, their laptop so that, that you could, you know, get them logged in or worst case you have access to like their Google login so that. [00:42:28] you could log in remotely for them. [00:42:30] And, uh, you know, then they could watch. [00:42:33] Brett: Speaking of hacks and webpages. I was getting all this spam from my S okay. So I have always preferred to have a contact form to actually like putting my email address onto my web [00:42:48] Christina: Right, right. [00:42:50] Brett: and, uh, for years I just had a basic contact form with very limited filtering and I never had that much trouble with [00:43:00] spam, but for the last few weeks I’ve been getting just like three or four a day, but just total like Russian bot spam messages. [00:43:10] Uh, so I. I sat down one night and I made my own capture and it just, it puts, uh, uh, basic. Uh, like a number two numbers between zero and five and asks you to add them together. And it puts the question into a canvas. So the text isn’t actually on the page, it generates a random, uh, an array of 10. Possible numbers and then randomly selects the indexes of two of those numbers. [00:43:51] And when it submits the form, it sends a hash, a key that tells it which two indexes to check the answer against. [00:44:00] And then it does all of the verification on the server side. So you can’t repeatedly submit the form and every time you fail it, it changes the question that I believe it’s like, it’s pretty basic. [00:44:15] It’s, it’s the simplest kind of capture, but it has eliminated spam mail and I’m hoping it hasn’t eliminated too much legitimate mail in the process. I’m proud of it though. It actually, [00:44:28] Christina: no, I I’m proud of you for doing that too. And it seems like a lot of work, but. [00:44:33] Brett: well, I mean, it was fun here. I’ve put the link to the contact page in the show notes, you can see it’s not a perfect font match, but. At the bottom of the form, it says what’s four plus four. And then you just answer the question [00:44:53] Christina: That’s cool. [00:44:54] Brett: and if you don’t put in an integer at all, it won’t let you submit the form to begin with. [00:44:59] But if [00:45:00] you [00:45:00] Christina: Oh, nice. That’s nice. Okay. I see this. Yeah, I know the font is really close. [00:45:05] Brett: yeah, yeah. Um, I’m, I’m pretty proud of myself. [00:45:09] Christina: I’m proud of you too. Like that seems like I only reason I say there’s a lot of work. Like I’m just like, this is like a really like cool solution that I do, like wonder I’m like, huh? Like it seems to be working so far. Like it [00:45:21] Brett: I have not gotten any spam, but I also have gotten relatively few actual contact messages. So, but I’ve tested it. Like it, it totally works. And if you, if you answer the question and you can totally send an email, so, um, I don’t know. I, I don’t like I never get more than one person a day contacting me my site, even when I’m not writing regularly, I get about 20,000 visits a week. [00:45:50] But the actual, like the bounce rate is pretty high. And the number of people who actually contact me through the website remains more like seven a week.[00:46:00] [00:46:02] I, I went and checked by RSS that’s for the first time in like a year, this week. And, uh, I’ve been writing significantly less since I took the job at Oracle, but my subscriber stats have gone from like 15,000 subscribers to 30,000. And it, it always makes me wonder what’s wrong with the reporting. Why would I have 30,000 our assess subscriptions when I’m writing, like at best once a week. [00:46:35] Christina: Yeah. I don’t know. Um, that does make me think of, it’s double that there is something wrong with the reporting. Um, like there’s a part of me that I want to be like, oh no, I think that that would be like, no, you’re, you’re doing great. But for it to double, especially since RSS is not. [00:46:52] Brett: Common [00:46:53] Christina: On the rise. Right? [00:46:55] Right. Like, like, like, like, you know? Yeah. Like, like I still pay for feed but, and stuff, [00:47:00] but I don’t [00:47:00] Brett: the Simpsons. [00:47:01] Christina: Yes. Maybe it is making it come back. Maybe It’s becoming sex again, except I except like seriously doubt it. So I wonder if there’s like a, either, are there bots out there that are just subscribing to [00:47:13] Brett: so I use our use, um, what’s the name of the service I use? Uh, feed, press feed, press. Um, and they do a pretty good job of filtering bots and stuff, but they also they’re like, it’ll be, if you look at the reporting, like you’ll have like a, uh, like 5,000 subscribers spike for one day and then it’ll go away. [00:47:37] And they never explained like where that came from or why. So I don’t know. I do like feed press though. I pay, I pay, I pay money for feed press. They do, uh, analytics and podcasts hosting. It’s it’s it’s a good service. I’ll add it to the show notes. If [00:47:54] Christina: yeah. That’s [00:47:55] Brett: feed, press service, [00:47:56] Christina: yeah. Add that to the shadows. That’s cool. Um, [00:48:00] I, um, I remember hearing about them cause what was always going to, what was, what was the name of the Google one? Was it feed Wrangler? What was it? [00:48:06] Brett: uh, Google reader. [00:48:08] Christina: No, no, no, no. Google’s, um, uh, feed, uh, hosting service. [00:48:13] Brett: Oh, fi fo um, I forgotten. It’s not feed Wrangler. That was a competitor. [00:48:21] Christina: was a competitor. [00:48:22] Brett: hidden. Didn’t have fire in the name somewhere, [00:48:24] Christina: I think it did. Um, it was like, like firehose for fire, [00:48:28] Brett: Wow. I’ve totally forgotten. I know exactly what you’re talking about, but since reader died. Yeah, I do like feed Wrangler, feed Wrangler, and what’s the one, is it? Which one has the hamburger icon [00:48:45] Christina: um, uh, feed Ben. [00:48:46] Brett: feed feedback. That’s the one I actually use and I have the same password for both feed Wrangler and feed bin, but feed bin. [00:48:55] It’s the one I paid for and I use it with reader and [00:48:59] Christina: [00:49:00] Yeah, same. Yeah. and net news [00:49:03] Brett: I just even, I don’t use RSS that much anymore. [00:49:06] Christina: Same. I was going to say, like, I pay for feedback and I have for seven, eight years and I, for a long time, I paid for feed Wrangler as well. Um, but at a certain point I was like, um, I think like five years into it, I was like, I can only pay for one service I don’t [00:49:20] Brett: Yeah, exactly. You don’t, you don’t need to RSS services. [00:49:24] Christina: right. You really don’t, especially if you’re only if you’re not even using one really. Um, but so at this point, part of me is like, I liked the idea of being able to pay to support it. And then I, I just, yeah. Do you remember, uh, what was it? Fever. [00:49:36] Brett: Yeah. I used to, I used to run my own fever. [00:49:39] Christina: So did I, I ran my own fever. [00:49:41] and since me and Sean and man-made good [00:49:43] Brett: Right. And mint [00:49:44] Christina: mint was so good. [00:49:46] Brett: was great. [00:49:47] Christina: Mint was fantastic. He had his own URL shortener too, which was really good. Um, and his own, um, uh, remember kicks, um, the, the bookmarklet [00:49:57] Brett: No. Oh, quicks. Quicks. [00:50:00] [00:50:00] Christina: Quicks. Yeah. [00:50:01] Brett: Yeah. What’s that? Sean and men too. [00:50:03] Christina: No, it wasn’t, but, um, it was sort of based on shortwave, I think was what [00:50:08] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [00:50:09] Christina: So it was a similar syntax, but yeah, quicks, quicks, I loved, I’m [00:50:14] Brett: who doesn’t remember a quicks, it was like, basically a bookmarklet like JavaScript bookmarklet you could write Quicksilver type of, uh, commands, and then you have like, just basically a text file and perform all these shortcuts on web pages using a bookmarklet. It was, it was sweet. I loved [00:50:36] Christina: it. [00:50:36] was like, I, I still miss it to this day because there are times when, like, I want to pull up an archive version of something and I’m like, dammit, I wish quicks was still running or, or, or, or, or that used to open source the backend because I would, I would like have it running locally, even, you know what I mean? [00:50:51] Um, because there are times when I’m like, you know, and I, and I can do that obviously with Alfred and some other stuff, but like, it was honestly very convenient to have [00:51:00] it just in the browser and, and just be able to be like, okay, I wanna go to the archive version of this, or I want to, you know, go to the cash version. [00:51:09] You know What, I mean? Like there were just certain things that I had. Um, I had, like, I had like, like, like Twitter kind of shortcut things and be like, okay, I can automatically send this to tweet Baader or whatever. Like it was, that was, that was slick. [00:51:20] Brett: What, uh, whatever happened to Sean Inman? [00:51:23] Christina: He made games for a while. And I don’t know, [00:51:30] Brett: Yeah. I just Googled and either on spelling the name wrong. [00:51:34] Christina: it was S H a U N I N M a [00:51:37] Brett: Yeah. That’s what I thought. And like did compendium. Okay. He’s still out there. And his copyright on his, on his blog reads 2001 to 2021. So either it’s, um, using a server to just put the current year in, or it’s actually updating [00:52:00] retro game crunch, the last rocket. [00:52:04] Christina: So I just checked on his Twitter. So he’s apparently, um, currently at panic and play date. Cool. [00:52:11] Brett: Oh, played which one was play date. [00:52:13] Christina: Playdate is, is the little [00:52:14] Brett: Yeah. That’s what I thought. Yeah. What are, is that still a thing? [00:52:19] Christina: It’s been delayed. It hasn’t come out yet. [00:52:21] Brett: Okay. Yeah, actually that was like the first quote unquote console that I was actually interested in buying for a long time. [00:52:28] Christina: Yeah. I, um, I have one pre-ordered, um, I’m in like the first wave of people getting them, but, um, they, uh, they had some sort of battery issue or something and so it’ll be out early next year. I got to play one God, uh, two years ago at, uh, at, um, the last, um, XO, XO, uh, that, that, um, they had before the pandemic or whatever. [00:52:51] And I got to play a prototype and it was really, really fun. [00:52:55] Brett: Nice. His blog does not list ment or fever [00:53:00] under his web applications. [00:53:02] Christina: Yeah. He retired them both. Yeah. He retired them both because at one point, like I Was like looking for kind of like a Minch replacement and, um, ’cause he doesn’t sell it. [00:53:13] anymore. I was like looking. I was like, okay, well, could I maybe even get this running and still use this? Because it did some of the stuff I needed it to do. [00:53:20] Turn out the version of my SQL. It was using was just a little bit too old for certain things. And I was able to comment out like the serial thing or whatever and the file and it still works just fine, which, which was nice. But, um, Yeah. [00:53:35] that those services stopped, stopped working, unfortunately, because, um, mint was just like with solid. [00:53:41] Like, I use that for my analytics for years and years, I think, uh, I mean, it’s been a few years now, but I think it was only relatively recently that, um, uh, teachy moved Mac stories to something else. [00:53:51] Brett: Yeah. I mean, Google analytics is, there’s a reason. It’s the standard. [00:53:58] Christina: Yeah, it is. [00:53:59] Brett: just, there’s [00:54:00] so much there that I don’t need that. It’s definitely not worth the trade-off of my users, uh, privacy to be running Google analytics and most [00:54:09] Christina: Not only that, not only that, but if you use, um, you know, like, uh, you block origin or anything like that, like in most cases it blocks. Uh so-so so you, as like a webmaster, aren’t even getting the analytics and like, I don’t want to know any information about people, but I would like to know if I had a visitor or if it had a link click. [00:54:25] So what I’ve been, what I’ve been using on some side project things is plausible analytics. [00:54:31] Brett: W we had a, we had an episode where we talked about like all of our alternatives. Yeah. Plausible sounded good. Um, uh, fathom is the one I’m still using and they’ve added a lot of features in the last year that have made it [00:54:47] Christina: cool. yeah. there were some features of fathom and I was looking at it that I couldn’t do, like, like I liked the, there was like a, um, a feature in, in mint. Um, like one of the, the, um, what do they call [00:55:00] them? The, what were the Peppers. [00:55:02] Brett: Oh, Yeah. [00:55:02] Christina: where we’re like, you could see how many people click on a certain link, like outbound clicks and that fatten didn’t have that, um, plausible added that and added a way of like, being able to track that. [00:55:14] And so I appreciated that about them, but, but that it might have at, at this [00:55:18] Brett: I just can’t remember the last time I cared. Like I understand what situation I would care about it in, but on my sites, [00:55:25] Christina: for on your [00:55:26] Brett: just don’t have a need to track outbound traffic at all. [00:55:29] Christina: Right. And, and in my case it was, I was, it was for a, for a site for someone I was doing at work. And I did actually need that information, um, [00:55:36] Brett: cases where. [00:55:37] Christina: for my own reporting, just so I could be like, okay, this is how many people are clicking on these things. Mostly they’d be like, okay, these are the stories that resonate, or these are in or whatnot, you know, like, because for certain links you can put tracking things on and you can track the inbound stuff on that link itself. [00:55:50] But if you’re using, you know, certain stuff, but, um, I understand for a lot of people like that, wouldn’t be, uh, necessary. Uh, I had like a very specific use case, [00:55:58] Brett: I [00:55:59] Christina: why I needed [00:55:59] Brett: [00:56:00] I need, uh, to set up one of the myriad sparkle app cast trackers, um, like every Mac app, you know, this I’m explaining for the listeners, every Mac app, uh, in the world. Okay. Not everyone, but most Mac apps use a library called sparkle. And when you see that update is available, uh, this is for non Mac apps or apps. [00:56:22] But when you see that update available, you click update, it downloads it and you click install, update that’s it’s called sparkle and it runs off of an RSS feed, uh, called an app cast. And. It like, it doesn’t automatically send any of your information to the developer, but the fact that it is hitting a web URL and it has the option to submit anonymous usage information, I could be getting all kinds of analytics on my apps that I’m currently not like, I don’t even know how many [00:57:00] NVL users there are. [00:57:01] As I get ready to release NBA ultra, it would be really useful to know like I can, I can estimate and it’s, it’s a Sprite, the huge number. Um, but I don’t have any actual data to work with. And I really should have set that up years ago, [00:57:19] Christina: Um, so fun fact, the sparkle project, like the library, the 2.0, uh, dot O was just released 20 hours. ago. [00:57:27] Brett: 20 hours. I’ve been using two dots. No, I’ve using 1.6. Oh shit. Okay. So I might need to do some update. [00:57:36] Christina: Yeah. I’m not sure if the sparkle to add support for application sandboxing, customer custom user interfaces, updating external bundles and more modern architecture, which, which includes faster and more reliable installs pre-releases can be available this thing, but yeah, it’s already two tube has just released, [00:57:52] Brett: sandbox, the sandbox thing was a big deal used to up until now. You’ve had to use a fork of the sparkle [00:58:00] project. If you wanted to add automatic updates to a sandbox, that app like it’s been possible, but it hasn’t been easy. [00:58:08] Christina: Yeah, no, I mean, totally. Which a lot of people have used other things and, um, no, that’s cool. Cause yeah, cause most, most Mac apps use sparkle or, or a fork of it. Um, or, you know, uh, [00:58:22] Brett: It’s what makes it possible for an app like Mack updater to keep track of all of [00:58:27] Christina: I was going to say, I would say [00:58:28] Brett: check the sparkle feed. [00:58:30] Christina: exactly Mack updater. I also can check. I think, you know, it has stuff that it like integrates with Homebrew as well, but right. It needs some sort of feed. [00:58:37] of some sort of thing to be able to search it. [00:58:39] Brett: I don’t know how it checks like, uh, like DaVinci, uh, resolve, which doesn’t do internal updates at all. Uh, they must’ve just figured out [00:58:50] Christina: they, they might’ve manually, they might’ve found a way to manually ping that and compare it Like, I have a feeling like I have a feeling like, uh, like I feel like what was, what was Mac [00:59:00] update? Uh, I use backup dater, uh, but, but, but you know, the old Mac update, like they had their own database. Yeah. [00:59:07] Like their own database of which I, I don’t even think it’s updated anymore, ironically. Um, but they had like their own database, you know, of apps, you know, they’re listed, uh, some of that I’m sure is through RSS and sparkle. And some of it was, you know, through developers, submitting separate, whatever the case may be. [00:59:22] Brett: I, I still get so like most of my apps historically have been listed on Mac update and whenever I put out a sparkle update, I get it. I get an email from Mac update that says your app has your app listing has been updated. So they are tracking sparkle feeds. [00:59:39] Christina: Yeah, [00:59:39] no, I figured, but I’m just saying, I think that they have another thing too. Like I think if you weren’t using sparkle, you like, I, I feel like they have some other mechanism there. Um, what was the, what was the other McAfee update competitor? They sold it to macros or somebody, what was it called? [00:59:52] Versions. [00:59:53] Brett: I don’t remember. Uh, but like there were a bunch of like real spam ones, like soft pedia.[01:00:00] [01:00:00] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but this was one, it kind of became a spam. I think they sold it to CNET, but it was, it was version tracker. That’s what it [01:00:05] Brett: Oh, yeah. I remember version tracker. [01:00:07] Christina: Yeah. Version tracker was cool, man. We’re just [01:00:10] Brett: Mac Mac update used to be cool. I used to love Mac update. [01:00:14] Christina: too. I used to love it. I used to love it and um, yeah. [01:00:19] Brett: Yeah. [01:00:20] Christina: It, I don’t know what’s happened with it, but [01:00:22] Brett: were heady times the Mac [01:00:24] Christina: they were heading [01:00:24] Brett: tracker days. [01:00:26] Christina: honestly, well, I just, I don’t know. Ryan’s me just like the, the like glory days of, of Macko S you know, like back when, like everybody was building like native and cool desktop apps and doing like cool shit. [01:00:40] Brett: Yeah. [01:00:41] Good times. [01:00:42] Christina: Good times. [01:00:43] Brett: All right. Well, Hey everybody happy new year. [01:00:45] Christina: happy new year. [01:00:46] Yes. Yes. This has been a little weird over tired, but I’m, I’m glad to catch up with you and, uh, happy new year, everybody. Um, take care of yourselves. Hope that here’s to 20, 22 being Nothing like 20, 21. [01:00:59] Brett: [01:01:00] Yes. Nothing like 2020, or like basically let’s go for here’s to 20, 22 being like 2015. [01:01:10] Christina: Yes, yes. [01:01:12] Brett: Let’s let’s jump back. Let’s jump back before 2016. All right. [01:01:18] Christina: I’m with you. [01:01:18] Brett: We’re going to, we’re going to call this episode under tired. I think we’re both too well rested to make an overtired episode today. [01:01:26] Christina: I think so. But I mean, I think we, we had some good conversations. We had some good reminiscing about Mac stuff. I always love that. [01:01:31] Brett: Yeah. W it was still, it was still classic over tired from a different perspective. [01:01:37] Christina: There we go. [01:01:37] Brett: All right, Christina, get some sleep. [01:01:40] Christina: Get some sleep, Brett.

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A Complete Beginner’s Guide to Anal Sex Log4Shell Explained and log4shell.com Apache Log4j Security Vulnerabilities The Matrix Resurrections Sad Keanu Explained Sandra Bullock How Many Batmen Do We Need The Best Harry Potter Novel Isn’t Even Written by JK Rowling MonsterCockShemale.tumblr.com Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 268 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey listeners. It’s Brett here. I haven’t slept since the last time we recorded, which was a couple of days ago. I am, I am in shit shape, but fortunately I have help. I’m here with Christina Warren, you know, my long-time co-host and returning guest, Bryan Guffey. How are you guys? [00:00:24] Christina: Good, good. I’m I’m pretty good. I have slept. Um, I’m on, I’m on vacation mode. I am flying out. Um, to Atlanta early tomorrow morning, so I’ve got to do laundry and stuff. And, um, uh, but yeah, I just ordered my dad’s Christmas gift, um, which I realized was very last minute, but I thought that I’d done it earlier and I didn’t, but they did have a Sonos from, um, at a local best buy in Atlanta. [00:00:52] Well, it’ll be available for pickup on the 23rd, but I wasn’t able to get, I had to wait for father’s day, like months for his, [00:01:00] for his Sonos. Like I had to order it in may to get it like sometime at the end of June. So I was happy that this time I didn’t have to wait as long for another [00:01:10] Bryan: Sonos. [00:01:11] Brett: You spent a lot of time on a consumerism. This isn’t an insult. That sounds mean, but like, So many topics, our Christina’s like waiting to get a brand new laptop or Christina’s like hunting down a PS4. Like you spend a lot of time on like, not just shopping, but like difficult shopping. [00:01:33] Christina: No, you’re not wrong. And, and, and, and it’s, it’s a fair criticism. I think about that a lot, [00:01:37] actually. I’m Like yeah, I know. I know. But no, I mean, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s sort of this, well, we’ll talk about our mental health, but it’s sort of how I deal with things to be completely honest. And it’s not the most healthy way, but it is what it is. [00:01:49] in this case, I just literally finished doing that, before we started the pot. [00:01:53] Brett: I just like, I don’t have the energy for that kind of stuff. If it takes, it takes too long or [00:02:00] it’s too hard to track down. I just, I, I, I don’t, that’s why I don’t have that much stuff. [00:02:06] Christina: Well, in this case, I didn’t have to track it down in that difficult late, [00:02:10] like for, for this particular thing. [00:02:11] Brett: you had to, you had to put an order in and wait for it and. [00:02:15] Christina: Oh, I mean that, I mean in months to go, yeah, for, for this particular one, though, It actually works out because I will be getting into Atlanta and then we will pick it up on the 23rd. So it’s actually easier, but [00:02:26] Bryan: sure. [00:02:26] Brett: Fair enough, Brian, how are you? [00:02:30] Bryan: Um, you know, it’s, it’s Saturday and I have three days left to work for the rest of the year. So that’s like, yeah. And then though, and we’ll get into the thumb, but I am looking forward to not working so that I can work. If you all know what [00:02:46] Christina: that’s like. [00:02:46] Brett: Totally. My vacation started today. I’ve been working all day. [00:02:52] Bryan: Yeah. I was going to [00:02:52] Christina: say, I was like, my vacation technically started, um, Wednesday, although I was, uh, doing, um, [00:03:00] uh, I went into the office on Thursday. Last time we recorded. And, um, I I’m also in this place where I’m like, yes, I’m actually looking forward to being able to get some actual work done because I don’t go back until third or the fourth or whatever day [00:03:14] Bryan: that is. [00:03:16] Yeah, same. I’m just looking forward to actually doing some training, having time to do training and learn some stuff. So excited, just got work to pay for like $1,200 worth of it, lasting and training. So I’m thrilled. [00:03:28] Brett: Wait, can’t you do that during work though? [00:03:30] Bryan: Well, we’re going to get into that. I would like to, that would be awesome. [00:03:36] Christina: That would be awesome. [00:03:37] Wouldn’t it? I was going to say, wouldn’t it be great? Like we have, sometimes we have these like days of learning thing, which is ends up just being like, oh, you’re not supposed to have meetings these days and you can focus on your own things. And then inevitably other people will like not respect the day of learning and be like, oh no, we have to have this meeting at this time. [00:03:55] I’m like, well, [00:03:57] Bryan: well thanks. [00:03:58] Brett: I just like, I, [00:04:00] I myself those days, they don’t offer them, but I’m like, Hey, I need today. I’m going to be heads down. And then I, I go heads down. I like clothes, slack. I just ignore work for a day. [00:04:13] Bryan: Nice. [00:04:14] Brett: It takes some effort. [00:04:15] Christina: Okay, so, so, okay. So we should just go right into Brett’s mental health corner, AKA mental health corner, because you haven’t slept. [00:04:24] Brett: Yeah. I am like low key manic, which sounds like a contradiction in terms, but I’m like super calm. I went to breakfast with my parents this morning and I let them know, like I hadn’t been sleeping and that I was having a bit of a manic episode. And my mom’s like, you seem totally level, like, I I’m, I’m not coming across as crazy, but I’m not sleeping. [00:04:52] That’s like the only symptom of this is I’m not sleeping and therefore I’m tired. Um, but like I have [00:05:00] that coding obsession, like I put way too much effort into bunch or not bunch, uh, doing yesterday because I can’t stop. But this morning, like, It turned out that code samples on my blog, when a code sample was inside of a list, it was being rendered with a space at the beginning of every line. [00:05:21] So if you copied code out and pasted it into a script, it wouldn’t work because the hash bang at the beginning of the script would have a space before it. And this is, this is annoying. I mean, sure. People could fix it on their end, but, um, I write a lot of code on my blog. I can’t have this. So I spent three hours tracking down. [00:05:45] I have so many plugins running and it turned out, I didn’t even know how my code blocks were being syntax, highlighted, like everything. I was working wasn’t and something completely unexplainable [00:06:00] was creating my code blocks. ultimately after three hours, I ended up writing a Jekyll hook does a brute force, red jacks, uh, D uh, like out, out debting of all rendered code blocks before they go to the blog. [00:06:18] Uh, it’s it’s ugly. It works. I love Jekyll’s hooks. can, you can do so much with hooks, but also it’s fucking annoying. I am mad at Jekyll and I love Jekyll at the same. [00:06:35] Christina: Yeah. I noticed that that was in a, in, in the show notes. What, we’ll come to that. Um, uh, Brian, how’s your mental health? [00:06:42] Bryan: Oh man. Well, you know, let’s see, uh, fine ish. Like I’m talking about, I’m excited about we’re going to have this break. Things are going to be nice. I’m going to be too bored and we’re going to find things to do, but at the moment, you know, everything that’s going [00:07:00] on in the world with, um, Omnicon variant. [00:07:05] It’s stressing me the heck out. And you know, mostly just worried about my friends. Like, I’m good doing what I do. I stay at home all the time. I don’t go anywhere, but like, that’s stressful. And then this stuff going on with this discord community that I created with friends a while ago, it was just kind of like a messy and it makes me wonder, like, will you ever have like decent community on the internet or is it always going to like devolve into terrible stuff? [00:07:30] So like, we’re deciding about, are we going to shut it down or what are we going to do? You know? And so like, that’s been, that’s been kind of a sad conversation that’s been going on. I’m like, yeah, I’m like a six out of 10. [00:07:44] Brett: I would point out that like our, our discord for over-tired is not super active compared to some of the discourse I’m on, but we have great people there that are always friendly and I’ve yet to have like any [00:08:00] meltdowns in that community. [00:08:03] Bryan: Yeah. And I think that’s part of, uh, that’s one of the things that I think I’ve learned this community like blew up because like, it was launched on Tik TOK and it was one of those things that went viral. So we’ve got like 8,000 people in a day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, um, we learned a lot through this process, but what we learned is that I think you have to build, like, we spend a lot of time being intentional about the community, but like the people who came in and weren’t intentional. [00:08:34] Christina: Right, right. That’s actually a really good point because you can be intentional about how you’re creating it. But if the people who you’re bringing in don’t have those same, don’t have that same understanding, then it can, it can be a different place. [00:08:49] Bryan: Yeah. I’ve been thinking a lot about the number of people over the past couple of years, and we launched it in the pandemic. [00:08:54] Right. That’s the other part, a lot of people over the past couple of years, we’ve only sort of gotten to be adults [00:09:00] on the internet because they’re like, you know, they’re like college students and like their whole lives have been on the internet as adults. And what that means and how you think about things and how like you engage with people. [00:09:13] And also they grew up in a world where Donald Trump was always like somebody who was maybe running for president and what that’s done to us. [00:09:21] Christina: Right. And, and is also, I mean, I think even like taking some of like the, the world thinks about it, like they’re college students. So, you know, when you’re that age, you’re self absorbed and you have your own kind of shit and you have your own way of doing things and you’re not completely developed. [00:09:34] And you know, like it’s, it’s different. Um, like I, I can look back at my own life, you know, which was on the internet, um, as, as were both of you, you know, then, and I’m like, yeah, shit. I. Uh, the difference then I think slightly cause I did have Facebook, but it was like, there was some sense of, um, anonymity and other stuff. [00:09:57] So you could at least like your mistakes were hidden, [00:10:00] but you know, it’s, it’s different now. Like it’s just it, but not even now, I guess it’s just like, it’s that age, you know, where, where people have different ways of interacting. Like you grow out of stuff, you know what I mean? Not everyone does, but a lot of people do. [00:10:13] Bryan: Oh yeah, absolutely. And we had like real friends in real space that we could go hang out with and we weren’t on the internet all of the time I was too, but like I was on, but like we also were on the internet, but also in person with people like that whole part of it is gone now, especially for the past two years, like just [00:10:32] Christina: gone. [00:10:33] Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I think about that a lot. I think about like, uh, especially, not even so much a college, I mean that, that has to suck, but especially like kids in high school, because that’s an even more like. Fucked up age. And so I think about kids like middle school, high school, I’m like, shit, you know, if all you have is the drama that happens online and you don’t even have the opportunity to deal with any of the in-person drama, [00:11:00] you know, which is different, but also sometimes better. [00:11:03] Like you can at least get it out in the open. Um, whereas online everybody’s just catty fucking bitches. Um, like it’s, uh, God, I don’t even want to think about like what the social dynamics would be like if you’d spent the last two years, you know, at, especially if you kind of like, you’ve been like on, off, you know what I mean? [00:11:23] It’s like, okay, we were all at home and then we were kind of in person and now we’re kind of at home again. And then there are some people like there’s this interesting New York times article, um, uh, about how generation Z. Over the pandemic and I don’t blame them. Like, I, I don’t blame a number of people who are like, yeah, I am not giving up the rest of my life anymore. [00:11:48] I’m I’m just going to be, um, you know, um, I’m just going to try to go bond in, in, um, thank you, grant. Uh, my husband just brought me up food, [00:12:00] but like, I’m just going to try to go on and live more normally. And there’s a certain selfishness to that. Right. But I also, I feel like if I were 18 years old, there would be a big part of me who would be like, yeah, fuck it. [00:12:11] I’m going to be vaccinated and be trying to be safe around other people, but I’m not going to not go to parties. You know what I mean? Like [00:12:19] Bryan: my parents are like on the other side, like near 70 or like, and I’m like, stay home, stay home. And my dad is like, I am only going to live so much longer. So I’m going to do the best that I can learn. [00:12:31] Like take precautions. But like, I’m going to go on the trips that I have planned and I’m like, I don’t love that, but also, you know, you have to, I can’t make you do things that you don’t want to do. And again, it really shouldn’t be, it shouldn’t be everybody’s responsibility to do this. No. [00:12:50] Christina: Right. Well, that’s the thing. [00:12:52] If there was a better way and other countries did do it better and, and, and, and it’s, and I also like the, you talk about the Alma con stuff, like [00:13:00] it’s stressful, or for me, like for mental health, like, because I’m, you know, I’m flying home, um, to my parents’ house tomorrow. Um, you know, they’re in their seventies. [00:13:11] Um, they’ve been triple back. Um, they’ve been taking all the precautions. A very good friend of theirs has been in the hospital since before Thanksgiving with a COVID pneumonia. She’s probably not going to make it. And which is devastating. And, um, you know, and, and she, I don’t know if she had the booster or not, but she definitely had, you know, uh, think she did actually, know, but they’ve lost friends and so they’re concerned. [00:13:37] Um, but then I’m concerned about my own thing. I’m like, okay, I am obviously going to be, and I I’m triple backs and, and I’ll be wearing my mask on the plane and everything, but I don’t know about everybody else. And with how contagious step is like, I do have like this peer I’m like, I don’t want to infect anyone, but at the same time, like this weird thing is like, I, [00:14:00] after didn’t see them for, you know, 18 months that was devastating too. [00:14:08] you know, you have like this weird, like, kind of like trade-off thing is like, what do you do? You know, like, It it’s stressful because you don’t want to put people in harm’s way, but at the same time, kind of like your parents wanting to go on their trips me at a certain point, I’m like, all right, I can take all the precautions I can, I can know that I’m feeling well. [00:14:25] And I don’t want to obviously get anyone sick, but is, is the better off is the better option to not see people because that feels worse in [00:14:35] Bryan: some ways. Yup, absolutely. [00:14:42] Brett: Hey. Yeah. Um, I, I I’m glad you had a good conversation. I don’t know what it was about. I got [00:14:51] Bryan: Completely fine. [00:14:52] Brett: I was reading. So I had read about log for Java or log for shell. [00:14:56] Bryan: Uh huh. [00:14:59] Brett: I [00:15:00] had, I understood like in general what the vulnerabilities were, but, uh, Brian posted a link that actually goes into a lot more detail about [00:15:10] Bryan: Um, [00:15:10] Brett: what, like, this is [00:15:12] Bryan: It’s real fucking bad. [00:15:13] Brett: fascinating that this hasn’t been a problem until like that. [00:15:19] No one noticed this before. This is some, this is some just blatantly bad programming. [00:15:25] Christina: It is. And, and I want to be, so we’re going to talk about this. Um, do we need to do a sponsor break first? [00:15:31] Brett: Yeah. Hey, I wrote, I wrote up the, uh, the first sponsor reads so that it didn’t have any of my personal stuff in it. And if you want to take it, I would be much obliged. [00:15:42] Bryan: All right. [00:15:43] Sponsor: Bespoke Post [00:15:43] Christina: So this episode is brought to you by bespoke post a, this winner upgrade your daily routine with bespoke posts and their new seasonal lineup of a Mustang. Box of awesome collections. I love the name box of awesome post, uh, partners, small businesses [00:16:00] and emerging brands to bring you the most unique goods every month. [00:16:04] no matter what you’re into box of Austin has you covered from when our cocktails like that to cozy threads and camping gear essentials, which would be good for people who live in the Pacific Northwest. Um, You know, a box of Austin has collections for every part of your life to get started and find the right box for you. [00:16:23] Take the quiz@boxofboston.com. They release new boxes every month across a ton of different categories, and it’s free to sign up and you can skip a month or you can cancel any time at no cost. And each box costs only 45 bucks, but it has over $70 worth of gear inside. Plus with each box of awesome, you were supporting small businesses and 90% of everything that comes in your box of awesome is from a small up and coming brand. [00:16:50] I love that. So you can get 20% off your first monthly box when you sign up@boxboston.com and enter the code [00:17:00] overtired at checkout that’s box of awesome.com code overtired for 20% off your [00:17:06] Bryan: first box. [00:17:07] Brett: They have, uh, they have new boxes, like, uh, uh, music and kitchen [00:17:14] Bryan: No. [00:17:14] Brett: and like some of their stuff, like they have boxes for people who drink and smoke and, and I don’t do either of those things anymore. Uh, but, um, I’m super curious to try the music boxes. I love music stuff, even if I’m not listening to music anymore. [00:17:33] I still like the gear. [00:17:36] Anal sex, somehow [00:17:36] Bryan: I run into that too. I’m not listening to music hardly at all anymore, and it’s a thing I’m trying to figure out a balance for, because I listened to so many podcasts [00:17:45] Christina: all the time, right? Yeah. No, that is a weird thing where like, and I don’t know. Have you noticed this Brian, like, um, you, you used to commute and for your, you still working. [00:17:55] Bryan: Yeah. I’m I’m still working from home and I’ve been like working from home permanently, but [00:18:00] I used to drive a lot [00:18:01] Christina: for work. Right, right. And I don’t know about you, but like, for me, when I had that like commute time, that was my podcast or audio book time. And so the rest of my listening was like music. [00:18:13] And now, because I don’t have like that, you know, like, you know, hour and a half a day or whatever, like my music time, it becomes more difficult, I guess, because I probably do listen to more podcasts and other stuff. [00:18:27] Bryan: Absolutely. I agree. A hundred, 110%, which I’ve learned is one of my catchphrases 110%. I say that all the time. [00:18:35] But yeah, I don’t, I don’t know when to figure out to listen to music because like I get caught in this, like, we’ll have some Institute in the right mode. I can’t just be doing other things at the same time and yeah. [00:18:47] Brett: have two things to tell you, and I’ll try not to be long-winded first, uh, audio books. I, I, I just finished my second time through a fall or Dodge in [00:19:00] hell. Uh, the main character gets his brain like scanned after he dies and gets put into like a digital world. And he’s the first one there and he becomes God, but then another person comes in, kicks him out and he becomes the fallen angel, like the devil. [00:19:14] And it’s this whole world that it’s, it’s bizarre. And then I went backwards and th that was by Neil Stevenson. So I, I picked up an older book of his called ream D, which is read me misspelled. Um, [00:19:31] Bryan: Hmm. [00:19:32] Brett: and I didn’t realize it, but I’m getting started and it’s the same characters, but before they were dead and it’s a real trip, um, [00:19:41] it’s weird to read it in reverse. [00:19:44] Christina: that, that that’s them. Okay. So where you supposed to read it? And the opposite. [00:19:48] Brett: They were published in the opposite order. So ideally, yes. I just it’s like one’s in the real world and one isn’t, so it’s almost incomparable, but [00:20:00] it’s like getting the origin story for a hero. [00:20:05] Christina: no, I was going to say, I love that. I remember a completely genre, but I remember one of the first Freddie Pinellas books I read was, was not his first book, less than zero. And I think it was rules of attraction was the first one I read. But there was a reference to some of the less than zero characters. [00:20:22] I remember when I read less than zero being like, oh yeah. Okay. That’s where that person comes from. has other books, like a character show up in glamour, Rama, and I’m an American psycho and stuff like that. But, uh, that’s always fun. I think when you do the inverse of what you’re supposed to do where you’re like, oh, okay, this is the origin story of this that I experienced in this other way. [00:20:44] Brett: Story of my life. [00:20:46] Christina: Yeah, which also funnily enough character from story of my life in glamour Roma, but that’s even different authors. [00:20:53] Brett: Like, I feel like you shouldn’t have anal sex until you’ve had vaginal sex, unless you’re gay. And that’s like, and [00:21:00] that’s your, your option, [00:21:02] Bryan: I was totally above. [00:21:04] Brett: 4, 4, 4, 4, a straight man. Like, I, I feel like anal. Isn’t interesting until you’ve had vaginal personal opinion, don’t at [00:21:17] Bryan: Okay. Okay. [00:21:18] Brett: cause I [00:21:19] Bryan: Okay. [00:21:20] Brett: and, and [00:21:22] Bryan: oh, interesting. [00:21:23] Brett: yeah, it, it, I feel like it might, my experience would have been different if I had more background that said the other thing I was going to tell you was, not about anal sex. [00:21:36] It was. [00:21:38] Bryan: I was going to [00:21:38] Christina: say, I cannot believe I’m learning so much. This is really interesting. [00:21:42] Brett: It was last night. My girlfriend says to me, my girlfriend says, she says, think I would like Adele, at which point I realized she hadn’t heard a Dell. [00:21:53] Bryan: Oh, [00:21:54] Brett: and I’m not like a die hard fan, but I, I, love and respect a [00:22:00] Dell. [00:22:00] Bryan: yeah. [00:22:01] Brett: so I, I, we started with a rolling in the deep, just, [00:22:06] Christina: Yes. You got to go with the greatest. Yeah. [00:22:08] Brett: the greatest hits. [00:22:09] And she was like, oh yeah, I have heard this, but we gave it a good listen. then we moved on, uh, through 21 and into whatever that 30 is that the new one. Um, and got just a, kind of a broad range of Adele. And I realized in the process. Her voice is better than I ever realized. [00:22:31] Bryan: Yes. [00:22:32] Brett: it is phenomenal. [00:22:35] Like it’s, it’s, it’s chilling to listen to. so I have a new found respect for Adele and it is the first time I’ve actually sat and intentionally listen to music in a long time. It was kind of. [00:22:50] Christina: I would love to hear Brian’s take on this because you are actually the vocal, like master of the three of us. [00:22:56] Bryan: Um, yeah, I love, I love [00:23:00] a bell. I, I, let me say this. I love a girl’s voice. I think one of the things that is really amazing is with Adele. She’s an incredible example of how a voice matures as you get older and that there, that you can discover like depths and colors and tones that you didn’t have access to before. [00:23:22] And I think that’s what we’re hearing and 30, which is a really special opportunity, uh, to do with somebody like Adele, because it’s so rare that you have artists. Like Adele, another great example of this, this Taylor swift, who has continued to mature, but like we don’t see so many artists anymore that we get to sort of really chart them over their entire time. [00:23:51] Um, they’ve I mean, Adele’s been doing this for us for like over [00:23:55] Christina: 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the first time most of us heard her, I certainly first time I ever [00:24:00] heard her was she was on Saturday night, live in 2008, the episode that Sarah Palin, um, uh, hosted, which was one of the most viewed episodes ever, because, you know, that was the same season that Tina Fey was doing her impression. [00:24:16] And, um, uh, and that, and that was the episode where Amy Poehler famously had the wrap and the weekend update, which was just like, she was so pregnant. She was just like going at it. Um, but, um, you know, she was the musical guest for that episode, which. Talk about pressure. I mean, I can’t even imagine, you know, you have, like, I think it was one of the highest rated episodes of the show it had in years and years. [00:24:40] And, uh, she nailed it. And I remember watching it with grant and being like, holy shit, who is this? You know, and just being like, okay, well I’m a fan now. And you’re right. You know, we’ve been watching her for, you know, four albums and it’s like, her voice has matured and [00:25:00] gotten better. And I, uh, I was making a comparison to my mom, um, uh, to Barbara Streisand. [00:25:07] And my mom was kind of disagreeing a little bit, but I was able to, I think maybe pull her in to me. Like she does remind me of Barbara in the sense that like, both of them at very young ages had very mature voices, but their voices did improve. Like you said, and kind of grow over time. The difference being it’d be like what in Barbara Streisand was huge obviously in, in, in the seventies and stuff. [00:25:29] But like, imagine if Barbara Streisand was like the biggest star in the world, Which I think is interesting about her because she’s got this amazing talent and this like truly amazing gift and the type of music that she sings and the stuff that she does, like is not even the typical, like diva, like Whitney Houston, Christina Aguilera, like Brian Carey, like those type of vocal goddesses thing. [00:25:52] Like it’s a different type of voice. And you know what I mean? Like, like it is this kind of older throwback voice that we haven’t had in [00:26:00] our generation. Like, I can’t think of anybody [00:26:03] that we’ve had. Who’s [00:26:04] Brett: Chad Kruger. [00:26:06] Christina: okay. I mean, look at this photograph. Of course I am forgetting about a [00:26:11] Nickelback. Thank you. [00:26:12] Brett: think you would know who that was. And I was going to [00:26:14] Christina: Oh, [00:26:14] Brett: of explaining nickel back to you, but [00:26:17] Christina: oh no. [00:26:17] I, I, [00:26:18] I, [00:26:18] Brett: for me. [00:26:19] Christina: I, I unfortunately know nickel back. Uh, this is how you remind me bitch. Um, [00:26:25] Brett: that up on Wikipedia. [00:26:27] Bryan: C, C. [00:26:28] Brett: it feels like we need a Nickelback joke at this point. So I, I went to Wikipedia, did the homework and turns out [00:26:34] Christina: You did the homework well for, for the audience, don’t, don’t listen to Nickelback, but, um, [00:26:41] Bryan: you know, I told you all about the time, just as a side note bill for like, really you do not need to listen to, um, we’re going to add a creed into [00:26:49] Christina: that group. My fucking God. Yes. [00:26:52] Bryan: However, [00:26:53] Brett: new girl last night and [00:26:55] Bryan: I have created stories. [00:26:56] Brett: been to like 48 creed shows. And to me, that’s a red [00:27:00] flag. [00:27:01] Bryan: I, in 2009, uh, so this would have been the 2009, no, 2003. So let’s go much further back in college with two, I think maybe my first pride ever in Cleveland and they were having a talent show called like, um, Cleveland pride, pride, rainbow idle, and I won Cleveland pride, rainbow idle singing creeds, arms wide open. [00:27:28] Christina: That’s amazing. That is amazing. [00:27:30] Bryan: Especially because I had no idea that they were a Christian band at the time. Oh [00:27:33] Christina: yeah, well, yeah. W with their Christian S uh, was, was the whole thing. Um, so I knew people who like a guy that I used to work with this was way back in the day, like used to, like his cousin was in creed at one point and whatnot. [00:27:48] And I used to hear stories about what a Dick, uh, what was his name? Scott staff was. But my favorite story ever was when the people on speaking of like asshole Lish, like trolls, like when [00:28:00] you’re in college, I’ll never forget this. I remember this happened in life journal. It was like peak live journal was this girl, met him at a bar at an airport and gave him her friend’s number. [00:28:12] And the friend started texting with him and got him to have his sister drive him to a Denny’s in some like part of Florida, like an hour and a half away from where he was like hookup for a booty call. And all of these college kids showed up at the Denny’s and like took photographic evidence. It like picking up like this, you know, kind of like, you know, like coked out, like drunk Scott staff, like looking for some girl to hook up with. [00:28:41] And then I think some other girl wound up taking him home. Didn’t do anything with him. And, but he was just like scrounging for like wanting drugs and stuff. And she just like, let him sleep it off, like at our apartment or whatever. And then like he went back the next day. I don’t remember all the details of this story, except that it was like peak live [00:29:00] journal in college. [00:29:00] That was like one of the most amazing things I ever remember about creating. [00:29:03] Bryan: That was amazing. That was so basic. Oh my gosh. Speaking of live journal, literally still have a friend today that I made on live journal that I’ve never met in person, but now. We now live just like a couple hours away. Cause they live well, not a couple, but they live in San Francisco. [00:29:22] Um, but when we became friends on live journal, they were living in like Sweden. That’s [00:29:28] Christina: so cool. I live journal is like my, why my first true, like social media, like loves [00:29:35] it. And it was one of the only ones that had like, it had shit, right? Like you, the way that the friends list works and the way that you could make things that were only viewable to some people and the way that, you know, like the, the way the feed works, like it was, it was really ahead of it. [00:29:49] Brett: I never use live journal. I thought it was like blogger. Is it a whole social network? [00:29:55] Christina: Kind of kind of, so you could use it like a blogger, but the way that it [00:30:00] started was, uh, was, was Brad, um, uh, Fitzpatrick who, um, I’ve because of a journal I’ve known for 20 years now. Um, he created it to keep up with his college friends for people to kind of check in with one another. And so the idea would be like you had a blog, but you could also be friends with people and you would see on your friends list their posts. [00:30:18] So it’s kind of like a tumbler dashboard. Um, [00:30:21] Brett: like tumbling. [00:30:22] Christina: tumbler ripped off a lot of stuff with it, but one of the differentiating things was, is you could also choose whether you want it to make a post private friends only, or if you only wanted to show it to a select group of friends. And that was really unique. [00:30:37] They also had communities, uh, pretty early on so that you could also be part of community. So it was sort of a hybrid. Kind of like, almost like, like Facebook groups, um, uh, you know, but, but earlier where people could, could post, you know, messages and posts that would appear to community members in your feed, it was, um, like tumbler really. [00:30:57] What’s kind of like a different [00:31:00] kind of, I guess, take on it, but then it did have, you know, if you just wanted to use it as a blog, it was a Pearl based blogging system. So, um, it was a bit, but I think it, it, I think it predated blogger and if it didn’t predate blogger, like they were literally at the same time, but they were, they were slightly different because blogger never had that network effect. [00:31:21] So like, oftentimes you would meet people, at least how I met people is that you would have people on your friends list and then you would see them comment on stuff, or maybe they would, you know, to link to someone’s posts or you would go to their feed, like, and you could view like their, their feed, like at least the public stuff. [00:31:36] And you’d be like, oh, this person looks interesting. I’m going to add them as a friend. And because. The internet was slightly different than, I mean, it was still terrible, but it was slightly different. It was smaller. Like you could, you know, meet people like, and find interesting people who live in places like Sweden, who might have similar interests as you. [00:31:56] And like, I became friends with Brad who created it because I [00:32:00] followed his blog obviously. Cause he was, you know, that was another concept that you had people who you could be followed as you could usuals where you would both show up or you can just follow someone and see their posts. And, um, remember like, you know, we became friends in the comments of his blog and I, I wound up dating two of his college roommates, and uh, we’ve remained friends for 20 years and like, just, it’s just crazy to me. [00:32:24] Like there are, there are other people in my life too that I’ve met through, through live journal, but it’s, it’s crazy to me like, like you Brian, like, like there are people that eat, there are people who I still never met in person, or I’ve met only once, but have remained like had online, you know, friendships. [00:32:40] That I, that were reading my shit. When I was a high school student, [00:32:45] Bryan: I found my life journal. Oh my God. [00:32:49] Brett: Like just now, like you could put it in the show notes. [00:32:52] Bryan: I could put it in the show notes. Wow. I may have to do that. This is, this is, this is wild. I have [00:33:00] to regroup. Yeah. I was going [00:33:01] Christina: to, I was going to say, this was one of the other nice things about live journal by default. It was not indexed by Google and you would have to opt into it, which huge when your primary demographic is like teenagers or young adults. [00:33:17] Because like, all of my electrical is just like high school, like senior high school through like college axed. So a lot of mine is just like drama sort of bullshit and stuff that I would not want. People too, you know what I mean? Like I, at this point enough time has passed. I don’t think I’d care, but it was my diary. [00:33:36] You know what I mean? And so if it’s not the sort of thing, you’d want somebody to Google and find. Um, so did, but it didn’t have that feature. It was also, um, you familiar with memcache D Brett. Okay. So, so Brad creative and patchy, because he needed to find a way to scale live journal and keep it [00:33:56] Brett: Oh, [00:33:56] Christina: is even as, you know, a college kid who [00:34:00] created this thing, that then became this massive social network. [00:34:04] and this was before you had people who would just give you tens of millions of dollars for that idea. So, um, for the first four or five years of his life, he was completely self-funded. They had, um, invites. That was how they at the scale at a certain way. So you had to get, you had to either pay for an invite code or someone had to invite you. [00:34:22] You had to buy like a premium plan of like $15 a year or something. And that was how they paid for servers. But, uh, it was, uh, but then cashed you was, was created so that it would basically not like fall apart. And, uh, and that’s one of my favorite stories about it is that like this very important thing that is responsible for most of like the, the modern, like, like web 2.0 thing you know, something that, that Brad created out of necessity for live journal. [00:34:52] Bryan: Oh yeah, [00:34:53] Brett: quite the, little journey we just went on there. [00:34:56] Bryan: we did. We [00:34:57] Brett: We hit one of Christina’s magic [00:35:00] buttons. Um, [00:35:02] Bryan: Um, yeah. [00:35:03] Brett: our show notes did not include anal sex. Our [00:35:07] Bryan: Nope, [00:35:07] Brett: did not include creed or Nickelback. Our show notes did not include live journal. This has been, this show is it’s a beast of its own. [00:35:16] Bryan: it is. It is. [00:35:17] Christina: But, but we, we, we, we touched on this a little bit, but I want to talk more about this because I’m shocked that Brett didn’t know more about this. log for shell. Um, Brian, how, how shitty has your workweek been? Because of the, [00:35:32] Bryan: honestly, I’m not too terrible. And I think that’s been, because we, again, don’t use too much Java, but also most of the Java we use is completely internal. [00:35:46] And so we were really lucky in that case. Um, uh, basically, uh, Alaskans products don’t even use log for J 2.0, they’re still on like 1.7. So we were safe. [00:35:59] Christina: You [00:36:00] were saying, yeah, there was, if you’ve had something enabled, there could be earlier versions of you did not have that enabled. Yeah. No, but you were talking, but like it’s just bad coding and you’re not wrong. [00:36:11] I mean, like, I don’t want. Shit on the, the, you know, volunteers who’ve created and, and maintain this library. Cause that’s, I don’t want to like put it in the blame game, but I found in hacker news, like you could actually go back and you can find a feature request for the feature that enabled all of this terribleness and, and why they added it. [00:36:32] And it is sort of a scary thing to look at and be like, wow, this was not a good idea. Like [00:36:39] Bryan: at all, [00:36:40] Brett: Yeah. Um, it’s just like, as far as I can tell everything could be by using the right function call for, for print statements. Uh, like it just seems, I don’t know why they made, made the decisions they did in the [00:37:00] original code. also doesn’t seem like it’s that hard to patch. I think the concern is mostly [00:37:06] Bryan: no, it’s not [00:37:07] Brett: getting the patch out there. [00:37:09] Christina: right. And then the, and then the first patch. [00:37:13] Brett: How so? [00:37:14] Christina: Um, there, there, there was some other zero to a vulnerability that they found in the first pass at the first, first they put out a two.one, five oh, dot. Oh. Um, they immediately had to be like, no, no, no, no, no. Somebody found a zero day in that. And so [00:37:29] you have to do something else. [00:37:30] Bryan: Yeah, [00:37:31] Brett: days where I’ve put out like four incremental releases within two hours, just because something’s just never get caught until you put them on see the light of day. [00:37:40] Bryan: no, [00:37:41] Christina: totally. But the scary thing is, is that when you’re talking about something that is used by like tens of millions of websites, you know what I mean? So, so you’ve got this [00:37:49] weird thing where [00:37:50] Brett: tens of millions of people don’t use my software? [00:37:53] Christina: I am saying that, um, um, I, there, there you go. It’s tens of [00:38:00] billions. So we don’t even, it’s more people than exist on the planet [00:38:02] are using. [00:38:03] Brett: had 10 billion users, I wouldn’t be here talking to you about. [00:38:08] Christina: Fucking fucking well said, but yeah, but the, um, it’s um, yeah, th this is just, uh, it’s real fucking bad. [00:38:19] Bryan: Well, it’s really interesting because, uh, I was reading a lot of great stuff on Twitter about just how this talks about how open source is really kind of amazing and terrifying at the same time, because [00:38:38] Christina: no, it’s [00:38:39] Bryan: like, this is so big. [00:38:44] Like people use this everywhere and it’s maintained by volunteers who oftentimes end up being the maintainers because they happen to be around when somebody asks, right. Someone’s like, I’m done, what will you do this? And they’re like, I guess, and [00:39:00] that, that works at all is really amazing. But like, it gives me better understanding for the value of companies sponsoring and hiring people specifically for the job of working on open-source projects and maintaining them. [00:39:16] You know, the, the idea, like I was reading an article about somebody who works at Google, who now gets paid to like, all they do is work on open source and like maintain open source projects because it’s a value to Google who uses those open source projects to make sure that they’re well maintained. [00:39:32] Christina: No. [00:39:33] I mean, it’s okay. So what pisses me off about this? It’s not like that it happened and how poorly, you know, the code I haven’t written or whatnot, but the fact that like we had this instance with Heartbleed seven and a half years ago with the open, open SSH, um, uh, uh, uh, flaw, which was massive. And I will give the people behind Heartbleed so much kudos because having the name and the logo really, really fucking [00:40:00] helped, same thing with shell shock. [00:40:01] Um, but, but, um, in this case, you know, we have like the fun kind of like, uh, made an Ms paint logo, but like, Brett, we’re going to talk about this in a second. The fact that you work at Oracle and you haven’t even heard that much about this to me is a problem this is way worse. Um, in terms of what you can do with it, then the open SSH book was, it’s not going to be as ubiquitous as, as, as a Heartbleed, but when a Heartbleed happened, like Mashable of all places now, granted, if it wasn’t SCO plate will not make any bones about that. [00:40:32] But a lot of it was a, we genuinely wanted to help people update their passwords and make sure that sites they used were, updated Like I had tons and tons of people cause we maintain a huge database of, um, a list of sites that were vulnerable or warrant. And I had people reaching out to me who work at those sites and say, Hey, we patched now, can you, you know, update, you know, this, this list and whatnot. [00:40:56] And, we, we led like a mainstream [00:41:00] site in 2014, like led coverage on that sort of thing. Whereas we haven’t seen, at least seen other than Twitter and in my own kind of, you know, like hacker news, like there hasn’t, it’s not, on to. A ton of times to talk about Heartbleed. I haven’t seen anybody talking about, you know, um, log for shell on, um, on cable news, which considering how bad it is is a problem. [00:41:24] But to your point, like what me off is that when that happened, like the Linux foundation created this like, um, like core infrastructure projects. And I think it’s now called something else they were like, okay, for these really important core infrastructure tools on the web, we’re going to make sure that they have funding because what we discovered with heart lead with it open SSH, which is in it to be completely honest, like way more important of a library then than log for J, um, was, was being like, you know, uh, part-time maintainers and people who weren’t getting paid to do it. [00:41:57] And, and that was when this [00:42:00] massive secure. Pending the web is a problem. And so we’ll explanation. Some other people were like, okay, we’re going to make sure that these projects are funded now lock for J just because of its ubiquity. Its LEMS like, I have the question. I’m like, okay, well there was a really good, a tweet thread from a security expert who was like, okay, why do we still not have a database somewhere? [00:42:22] That’s just saying, okay, these are the most in use, like open-source projects and libraries. Not saying anything about even like, like how securely or whatnot, but like these are the things that are in used in those places. And maybe even like a, an analysis, like what’s the funding situation is this people who are able to work on it full-time is this, you know, like a volunteer thing, what’s the deal. [00:42:43] So you could at least eyeball and say, cause we’re never gonna be able to catch all of the things that people use. It’s amazing that this shit doesn’t happen more often, but it’d be like useful to be like, okay, 15 million websites use this one. Maybe that’s a sign [00:43:00] that, that there should be, you know, like some sort of money set aside so that it can have a security audit every so often. [00:43:07] Right? Like I just, it’s annoying to me that that happened when it feels like that would be than getting into the discussions of governance and this and that. And, and, you know, like whether or not open source is sustainable or this or that, like, which are all good things to happen, it feels like could get rid of some of the low hanging fruit, if you simply could eyeball, are the most used things. [00:43:29] So this should be assigned for us to focus on like, are there security audits for these [00:43:35] Bryan: projects? [00:43:36] Brett: Um, so in defense of Oracle, I, I use AI to filter the emails I received from work. So I only see what’s important. Um, and I mute all, but like vital slack channels. And I basically like something like this can happen at Oracle and I, I [00:44:00] would not even realize it. In fact, Victor’s the one who pointed, pointed the whole thing out to me. [00:44:05] Um, cause. But I just logged into slack and there, there are multiple channels dedicated to this on the Oracle slack. They are, and they have like five, five blog posts about it. Like they’re on it. it’s [00:44:20] Bryan: Okay. [00:44:21] Christina: Okay. That makes me feel so much better. Brian, does that make you feel better? The stewards of Java [00:44:25] Bryan: are taking this seriously. [00:44:30] Brett: They probably have a public slack about it too. They just started dipping their toes in a public slacks. having to use my authenticator app to load up Oracle security documents and see, let’s see affected products. Holy shit. Holy shit. I’m going to, I’m going to send you a screen cap. [00:44:53] Christina: Yeah, I seriously, I can only imagine. [00:44:55] Bryan: I mean, [00:44:56] Brett: is I’m dropping it into Skype. [00:45:00] Uh, I can never remember how to get you if they move the chat button all the [00:45:04] Bryan: I know. [00:45:05] Brett: Okay, this is page one of five and then it breaks. It goes into Oracle products, not requiring patches. And that is a shorter list. Yeah, it’s nuts. [00:45:23] Christina: Wow. No, I mean, so it’s funny because this, it was initially discovered in, in Minecraft servers. And so that was why, like, in one of our open source channels, it came up and we were like getting some of our Java people on it because we didn’t know how widespread it was. Cause at first. Oh, shit. Is this a Minecraft thing? [00:45:41] And we were probably like internally, like another day and other Microsoft security fuck up, whatever. And then it was like, oh shit, no, this isn’t us at all. Like at all. Um, and, and, uh, you know, and everybody had to patch, like Baclays had like took themselves offline for like seven hours to [00:46:00] apply the patching. [00:46:01] Um, like, fuck. [00:46:05] Bryan: Yeah. Honestly, I it’s wild. Just absolutely wild and talking about patterning. Um, do we want to touch on, uh, how are [00:46:19] Brett: Yeah, let’s talk about one. [00:46:21] Christina: we, should we, should we do our next [00:46:23] Bryan: one? [00:46:23] Brett: Oh, yeah, I’ll do one. I’ll do one. I’ll take the, I’ll take the hit. [00:46:27] Sponsor: Upstart [00:46:27] Brett: Um, Hey listeners, if you’re carrying a credit balance month after month, like maybe you bought 47 creed tickets when you were younger and you’re still paying it off or, or maybe you put a really expensive Adele concert on your credit card. [00:46:43] Bryan: Yes. [00:46:45] Brett: It can feel like you’re in a never-ending cycle of debt with no end in sight. 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So, um, I guess this may have started like a month or two ago and I don’t know what started it, but I would come in in the morning, um, and up my computer and it would have rebooted and I would log in and there was a car, there was a criminal panic that had happened. [00:48:32] So your computer restarted because of a problem. And I didn’t think too much of it. A couple of times it was in the morning I came back in. I everything’s sort of started back up, so it wasn’t a problem. But then a couple of times that’d be sitting in front of my computer and the following thing would happen suddenly I was not connected to the internet anymore. [00:48:52] Um, but it looked like I was connected to the internet, uh, things then the computer, the applications would [00:49:00] stop. Slowly. And it’d be like one application after another would start a beach ball and then sometimes it would go ahead and reboot itself and then it would come back up and there’d be Colonel panic. [00:49:15] Again, I have tried to capture these laws and that’s the other thing that happens is when this starts to happen, if you try to open up activity monitor and like, look at the car or open up console, you can’t pull, like you can’t stream logs at the same time. Like it’s not capturing anything. Um, and then one thing I noticed this last time was that literally, like I went to the network connections and they had all disappeared and I’ve done safe mode. [00:49:44] I’ve done everything and can’t figure out what’s going on. Literally re-installed dos without doing the wipe of the data, but you know, no clue what’s going on. And it seems like I’m not the only one that’s been having some worlds with them. [00:49:56] Brett: Yeah, I, uh, a couple of weeks now I keep [00:50:00] getting force, quit dialogue comes up and says, I’ve run out of memory. But when you add up all of the, memory usage that it shows in the force, quit dialogue, it’s, I’m using like maybe four gigs of Ram total. And, but everything stops and. It everything locks up and I have to reboot the machine I don’t know why it happens. [00:50:27] It always seems to happen when the computer isn’t being used. Like this always it’s always, when I come [00:50:33] Bryan: Yeah. [00:50:33] Brett: like hit my magic trackpad and it won’t click like the, the, uh, what’s it called tech tech, tactile, haptic, haptic, the haptic feedback. Won’t click. And that’s how I know that it’s starting. [00:50:48] And then I’ll hit my keyboard and it’ll take like 30 seconds for the screen to come up and then I’ll have that force quit dialogue. And I just I’ve been forced to rebuilding it because it’s not worth waiting and trying to do a, [00:51:00] uh, proper shutdown. Um, but I haven’t seen kernel panics, but I’ve definitely, this is getting frustrating. [00:51:07] And I’m on the verge of buying a Mac book pro because in my head that would solve it by another M one machine. It’ll be fine. [00:51:19] Bryan: A newer processor at least, you know what I mean? But I did hear about that problem that people were having with the latest, uh, install of, uh, the upgrade of Monterey, the latest patch of Monterey, where people couldn’t install that. [00:51:33] Brett: Yeah, Christina had a fun time. [00:51:36] Christina: Yeah. I had a real fun time with that, actually. That was a real, that was a real fun time where, uh, um, tweets turned into a nine to five Mac article. [00:51:42] Um, but that was just hilarious, but, um, uh, the, the good news about that was that there was actually a solution in the comments. Um, it was a, it was like, it was like the, the, um, like upgrade brain service or something like [00:52:00] that, that, that ended up needing to be quit. Like it was hanging for some reason. And so you’d like open system preferences to have the update that wouldn’t list. [00:52:09] Then you had to shut down a certain force, but a certain process, then the update would show up. you’d start the update, but you’d have to like hit the stop button because it wouldn’t download and then you could restart it again and then it would finally work. yeah. Um, there’s, uh, the, the hardware is real fucking good. [00:52:26] Um, the, the software there’ve been some, there’ve [00:52:30] Bryan: been some bugs. [00:52:31] Brett: Yeah. [00:52:32] Bryan: Yeah. [00:52:34] Brett: Are you going to get a new computer? Brian, [00:52:37] Bryan: So Brett, I don’t know where I would fund that new computer from, uh, is the problem. [00:52:43] Uh, [00:52:43] Brett: of. [00:52:46] Bryan: I mean, again, my upstart is my boyfriend and he would be like, listen, why do you need a new computer? I’m like, well, here’s the problem. And he’d be like, well, can’t, you literally send it back and probably get it replaced. [00:52:58] And I’m like, yes, but I [00:53:00] don’t want to go back to my work. I use my, like this, I use this for everything. Um, and I don’t want to use my work like Intel backward pro though. I could really got the [00:53:10] Christina: replacement. I mean, you do have two weeks off. [00:53:14] Bryan: That’s true. I could do that. And I mean, luckily as you thought, you thank you so much for your help, but like several people have been like, if it happens again, I’m glad to help you know, and see what’s going on. [00:53:25] And I have a friend who’s a genius. Who’s like, here’s how you get somebody to like, literally get you a new computer. If you need [00:53:31] Brett: Like an apple genius or literal genius, [00:53:34] Bryan: Like you’re an apple genius actually [00:53:38] Brett: genius. [00:53:39] Bryan: literal genius, [00:53:40] Brett: That’s the title of this episode is just literal genius. Or a beginner’s guide to anal sex. I can’t decide [00:53:47] Bryan: Honestly, I think that [00:53:49] Christina: I was going to say that’s the [00:53:50] Bryan: one with little geniuses [00:53:54] Brett: literal geniuses guide to anal sex. [00:53:59] Christina: genius [00:54:00] has got it, which is in Brett’s terms. If you’re not gay, don’t do it first. Um, [00:54:06] Brett: If you have, if you have other options, explore other avenues, literally. [00:54:10] Christina: explore their holsters [00:54:12] Bryan: with lots of other holes. [00:54:19] So, I mean, I am actually trying to get work to get me a new Mac book pro the situation there is that work is like still working through how they make apple sustainable than PCs. They know what the numbers are about. Like, we know we can talk about what IBM has done and so on and so forth, but that’s at a scale that we’re not out [00:54:40] Christina: yet. [00:54:40] Right. Right. And, and also I was going to say, if you do get them to pay for it, make sure you don’t mention the issues you’ve been having. [00:54:49] Bryan: I absolutely will. Not, none of them was to this podcast, so they should, um, because this podcast is amazing and it’s so nerdy and literally everybody worked with his merits [00:55:00] and it’s the best. [00:55:01] But yeah. So that’s currently my goal. I, I guess if I have to, I can just have them swap this out, but then what if the next one has the same problem? [00:55:10] Brett: Yeah, well, and that’s the thing is like I went and priced out a MacBook pro that would meet my standards, [00:55:18] Bryan: Yeah. [00:55:18] Brett: to, to be a step up for me. I’m looking at four grand and, and I need, I need a shirt that says that this isn’t an ad. This isn’t just an M one issue. And that if I spent for a grant and I’m going to get a machine that does not suffer from these issues, [00:55:37] Bryan: Yeah. [00:55:38] Brett: I need, can I get a truck? [00:55:39] Well, they loan me one for awhile. [00:55:41] Bryan: No. [00:55:42] Brett: what I’ll do. I’ll get work me a new M one MacBook pro I’ll use it just enough to decide if it works, because I refuse to use an Oracle provision machine as a daily driver. Um, their, their provisioning is, um, [00:56:00] brutal. What’s the word I’m looking for? D D draconian. Draconian man, that took me a second to grab, but, um, maybe I could use it as a free trial. [00:56:15] Bryan: Well, Brett, you are literally a business. You can work with like apple business people [00:56:25] Brett: What does that [00:56:26] mean? [00:56:27] Bryan: uh, you can get things like on, they do leasing that way. They do all sorts of interesting things. Um, I know that’s how, like I know Casey and Marco have always done a bunch of things that way with the computers that they’ve gotten, um, often is to work through the, the, the business folks, because they have a whole bunch of set things that they can do that like you can’t do if you’re just like on the ground. [00:56:49] Brett: I have to have a business like licensed, like registered? Cause I have always operated under the name. Brett’s hertfordshire.com, but I’ve never registered as any kind of [00:57:00] LLC or any. [00:57:00] Bryan: I [00:57:01] Christina: don’t know. They might, they might ask, but in most cases. Okay. So I know if you want to get a business bank account, you need to have like the tax ID number, but for tax purposes, if you’re a one person, LLC, it is actually no different, like you don’t technically need to have like the, the, you know, business license thing. [00:57:20] Um, so probably not, if you’re saying you do business under that thing, if you’re a single personality, you probably don’t. I know that [00:57:29] my business account, I have to register for things. [00:57:31] Brett: name. So. [00:57:32] Christina: Oh, well then yeah. Then there you go. Cause I was going to say, cause, cause that my LLC, that I had to do when I did, um, the times podcast last year and it was enough of a thing that I was like, okay, I have to have a business account. [00:57:43] I need to separate some stuff for that. Um, I went through the registration process, but I really literally only had to register. So that I could get the business banking account. Like that was literally the only reason that I did that because I wanted to get, um, uh, I didn’t want it. I wanted like a separate, [00:58:00] separate [00:58:01] Bryan: banking account [00:58:04] All About Neo [00:58:04] Brett: What are we going to talk about? Now? We have, like, we have two minutes left. I haven’t, I started watching Frasier again last night because I was so tired. [00:58:15] Christina: you’re so tired. [00:58:16] Bryan: You’re Like [00:58:17] Brett: else made sense. [00:58:18] Christina: you’re like, I can’t watch Nancy sell drugs on weeds anymore. Cause she’s so bad at [00:58:22] it. [00:58:23] Brett: And even we’re, we’ve been doing, like, we’ve been watching new girl, just for shits and giggles, but even that was like too much for me last night. So we just started watching Frasier again from episode one. I don’t think I’ll continue. I don’t think I’ll watch the whole thing again. I don’t have the fascination with it that my girlfriend does, but it is a good comfort show, but I haven’t seen a good movie for, I can’t remember the last good movie I saw. [00:58:52] Christina: Yeah, I really want to see Spiderman, but I’m not, I don’t want to go to the movie theater [00:58:55] Brett: I have heard, I’ve heard good things about Spider-Man. [00:58:58] Christina: as a vibe, but I’m just, I’m afraid to go to the movie [00:59:00] theater like that. This is the, this is the fucked up thing. I’m like, if I weren’t going, you know, to, to visit my parents and a baby, then it’d be one thing. But because I am like, [00:59:08] Brett: dude. W [00:59:10] Bryan: oh yeah, [00:59:10] Brett: movie theater. And I realized like, I really kind of wanted to see doing in the theater after watching it on my home Um, but I didn’t want to go to a theater badly enough to do that, but dune was a good movie though. I still [00:59:25] Christina: Yeah. [00:59:26] Brett: a good movie. [00:59:27] Christina: Okay. You have. Okay. So you’ve seen [00:59:28] Bryan: June also, literally next week we get the matrix resurrection. Yes. And you can watch it at home because it’s on HBO max. [00:59:36] Brett: have high. [00:59:39] Bryan: So here’s what I would say. My literal favorite critic at large Emily Vanderwerff, it’s really fricking fun and a good time. And many people will love it. Many people will hate it. [00:59:50] Christina: Yeah. I saw Emily’s um, uh, tweets and I was like, okay, well that makes me feel better. How ever, um, uh, [01:00:00] it’s still one of those things where I’m like, I don’t know, like, you know what I mean? [01:00:05] Like, look, I love the original, it’s a great film. Um, it’s fun. The second two are fucking guard, hot, garbage, and anybody who tries to pretend otherwise is kidding themselves. Like [01:00:18] Brett: worse though. Like the second [01:00:20] Bryan: yes. Was it, [01:00:23] Brett: I still found It was kind of fun. Like I didn’t end it and think, oh my God, that was amazing. Not like the first one, but it wasn’t until the third one that they really lost me. [01:00:34] Bryan: to be honest, I don’t really remember the second and third one just tells you how much, how good is. [01:00:39] Christina: Well, this is my point, right? It, which to me is honestly that the marker of a truly bad movie when you don’t even remember it, like, honestly, like, [01:00:46] like. [01:00:46] Brett: I don’t remember it at all. I just remember not hating the second one as much as the third one, I can’t remember anything about them. [01:00:53] Christina: No. And I would agree with that. The third one was definitely worth it and it got progressively worse, but this was one of those situations where I was just like, I remember, I [01:01:00] remember, I think I was drunk when I saw the third one in the theater. And even that wasn’t enough. Um, and, and my drunk, I mean, like we were pre-gaming in the car before we went to the movie theater and then we brought beers in with us and we were not people. [01:01:14] And we were not the only people drinking in that movie theater. [01:01:17] Bryan: This is amazing. Have you all seen the verge, uh, interview with galleries and carry a mosh? Oh my God. It’s so funny. [01:01:25] It’s so funny. [01:01:25] Brett: laughs about crypto [01:01:27] Bryan: Oh my God. [01:01:28] Yeah. [01:01:28] Brett: and FTS or. [01:01:29] Christina: Yes, yes, yes. Alex asks you questions and Carrie and she’s just, [01:01:36] Bryan: oh my God, she can’t stand it. [01:01:37] She’s like, well, whatever, like she’s like, I’m going to do it. Yadda does. He’s she’s so chill. Like she’s so chill. Like y’all, don’t leave. [01:01:47] I love it. I want to be his best friend. Like I just want to hang out with Keanu Reeves talk very slowly about [01:01:55] Christina: things. Did you see that a Buzzfeed asked them about sad Yano? [01:01:59] Bryan: Oh [01:01:59] Christina: [01:02:00] no. He was just hungry. [01:02:05] Bryan: That’s so relatable. Relatable. [01:02:09] Christina: I’m going to say, I used to have, I used to, I used to have a, um, a thing, um, on, uh, my desk at mashville for many years, our, our, uh, our art director at the time were very, were very hurt. [01:02:21] Our directors, like we had names and stuff and he made me like, he, he printed out a sat counter thing and cut it out and like put it so that it was on like, kind of like the top of like my kind of cube area in the office. So he was like, kind of perched on my, on my work area where I just had like a sad count of sitting, like perched on my desk. [01:02:40] It was great. Um, But I love that, that he was just hungry. Like that’s honestly, he, I love him. He’s honestly, who would’ve thought that he would have been like the most like, of all of like the nineties hunk, like actors, he would wind up being like the most relatable and the most nice. And it was chilling. [01:02:57] The one that we’re all like, Aw, [01:03:00] we love you. [01:03:01] Bryan: Yeah. Literally everything that man does is, I mean, can we talk about one of the great [01:03:07] Christina: movies? Yeah. Speed is a great movie and his chemistry with, with, uh, Sandra Bullock. So fucking good. [01:03:14] Bryan: Sandra Bullock used to do the best movies. Remember the nap? [01:03:18] Christina: The net was, [01:03:19] Bryan: oh my God. [01:03:20] This terrible. [01:03:20] Brett: I never had anything good to say about Sandra Bullock until she started doing comedies. [01:03:25] Christina: Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, she’s a comedy [01:03:27] actress. Um, [01:03:30] Brett: It was her first movie. It was hilarious. [01:03:33] Christina: um, but I, do you remember, uh, while you were sleeping, uh, with Peter Gallagher and. Well, it was the one at the net, which is terrible, but also amazing. [01:03:44] Bryan: Exactly. It’s so bad. Remember all of them, like those bad internet movies, which like, we still have that internet movies, but like, that was the greatest time because it was so bad, but also we were so starved [01:03:57] Christina: well, the fact that she was a hacker on a [01:04:00] Mac at 1994 tells you everything you need to know about, like how that, and that was like, she’s hitting a high symbol and, they, they filmed some of it out, like one of the macros expos in Boston or something like the inseam, I believe. [01:04:14] Um, yeah, but, but the proposal, good movie. Um, great, great Senator book comedy. Um, and, um, what are the, what? What’s the congeniality? [01:04:26] Brett: I like miss congenial. [01:04:28] Bryan: that’s a good film. [01:04:30] Brett: I mean, I wouldn’t say it was a good film, but it was, it was, [01:04:32] Christina: Well, it’s funny, right? Like, you know, she she’s no rose barren, but like she’s, there’s similar, you know what I mean? Like, I think it was Baroness funnier, but yeah, [01:04:42] Bryan: she’s done. [01:04:42] So one of the things that’s so interesting about Bullock is she really has been in all types of movies in a way that most people like she, like, that’s not, doesn’t happen as much anymore, [01:04:53] Christina: but like [01:04:55] Bryan: from, to gravity to the blind side. [01:05:00] Yeah, absolutely. 50 films. He started over the prince of Egypt. I didn’t even know if he was in the prince of Egypt, which is a [01:05:09] Christina: musical ever. [01:05:10] Yeah. Katzenberg. That was, that was, uh, like their, their third animated or fourth animated, uh, um, Dreamworks. Yeah. Yes, [01:05:19] Bryan: she was Miriam. So, uh, the older sister of Moses. [01:05:23] Christina: Oh, right, right, right. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, no, I, um, I’m a big, big, big fan, um, of a piano big fan of, of Sandra Bullock in her comedies. Although I love speed. [01:05:36] I think speed is just a fun movie speed too. Again, hot garbage. I don’t remember it. Other than seeing it in the theater. I was in like eighth grade and I was like, this is trash. I remember that was a bad summer. Cause it was that. And it was, um, and it was Batman and Robin [01:05:54] Bryan: and Robin that’s the one with the [01:05:56] Christina: nipples. [01:05:57] Right. But the nipples with Alicia [01:06:00] Silverstone, who I love so much, but who, um, she was like 20 and going through like the period that girls go in where you do not want to be in a skin tight suit, like it’s just not, it’s just not the right time to be wearing that costume. Um, and, and, uh, yeah, the nipples, I mean, Clooney’s apologized for it and um, I think it’s why Clooney still has a Korean. [01:06:23] Is, he was very funny about it and it was like very apologetic. Um, and it was so Clooney about it that it mean, you know, and, and honestly, if you think about it, like he probably would have been like the perfect Bruce Wayne in a better movie. You know what I mean? It’s a kind of is Bruce Wayne [01:06:38] Bryan: and now we’re getting Edward from Twilight, [01:06:41] Christina: which I’m so here for. [01:06:44] Um, he’s so hot and, and I mean, he’s genuinely so hot and I actually I’m like, you know what, I’m here for, for Robert Pattinson as, as the Batman, like Ben Affleck was never about it. I’m very happy. I’d like him again [01:07:00] because Jennifer Lopez has rehabilitated him completely in my, in my mind. Um, because she’s magic I do love them together. [01:07:07] But, um, his whole thing with Batman. What is this bullshit? Like, like there’s there, there, there, there are three Batman, Batman to me. There’s there’s Michael Keaton. There’s Christian bale. And, um, presumably now there will be Robert Pattinson depending on, on how it works out. [01:07:25] Bryan: Okay. So have y’all ever seen, um, the little Twitter video that it’s called? [01:07:31] How many Batman do we need? Okay, [01:07:36] so I’m going to, so Andrew Barth Feldman, who was the, uh, who was like the first like actual, um, dear Evan Hansen to play like the Rite aid. He was like 16 and he got played on Broadway. He did this video. Let’s go to how many Batman do we need? Like on Twitter. [01:08:00] And it is the funniest thing. [01:08:01] So I’m going to drop it into Skype. So folks who watch it if we want. [01:08:04] Brett: I found it. [01:08:05] Bryan: Okay, you got it? Yeah. Um, it is just the funniest little video, um, because yeah, [01:08:15] Christina: we need to have a whole other podcast episode just talking about dear Evan Hansen. At some point [01:08:20] Bryan: we absolutely could have a dear Evan Hanson episode. My goodness, that show I haven’t watched the movie. [01:08:26] I don’t watch it. [01:08:27] Brett: I might need a week off if you guys want to have a [01:08:29] Christina: Yeah, we could totally do that. I was going to say cause cause um, yeah, uh, I have my own personal like weirdness about that because, um, uh, I used to work with one of the, one of the producers and um, I saw in previews the day after they laid off 10% of the company, which was a weird, which, so it’s tied up in a lot of like hard stuff. [01:08:52] Um, but, but, but it’s also it’s it’s uh, it’s uh, it works on Broadway in a certain sense. Although PubMatic has held the movie that you [01:09:00] have to watch them because the movie is just, wow. [01:09:05] Bryan: Wow. It’s [01:09:06] Christina: just a lot. It’s just a lot. So that’ll be a future over tired when Brett takes off where we’re Brian and I will just talk about, um, speaking of like bad movies, although I would say it is one of those, you will remember it. [01:09:17] It’s like a, it’s not like from Justin to Kelly bad, but it is one of those, like, you will remember that you’re like, yeah, that was not good. Like, it is, it is like so bad that it’s, unmemorable like the last two matrix movies. [01:09:30] Brett: Speaking of, wow. I was filling out show notes and I decided I would throw in a link to live journal that is possibly the worst website, like just from usability, like a. [01:09:43] Bryan: Well, yeah, because the [01:09:44] Christina: Russians bought it like 15 years [01:09:46] Bryan: ago. [01:09:46] Brett: can’t open this search in Firefox at all. I was going to look for Brian Guffey on, on live journal and the search box doesn’t open until you open it in like Chrome or safari. [01:09:56] then every link you click opens a new tab. Like [01:10:00] everything is open and a new tab. then you go into these posts and they’re from today, but they look like they were written on angel fire. [01:10:10] Bryan: Yes [01:10:12] Brett: How does this even still exist? [01:10:14] Christina: because the Russians bought [01:10:14] Bryan: it and they’re running ads on it. Yeah. [01:10:18] Brett: Okay. [01:10:19] Bryan: Investment man. Wow. [01:10:21] Brett: But people are writing here. [01:10:23] Bryan: Yeah. I’ve used really wild that people are still there. But the only thing that I can say about a good thing about life dream is where I discovered fanfiction, [01:10:33] Brett: Oh, steamy. [01:10:35] Bryan: honestly, but like specifically Harry Potter fan. And not even like all like slash pick though, I have to say, like, I am a true Draco Harry spam, [01:10:49] but like it was, and I just actually recently started going back to some favorite fiction because it’s, everything was taking routing. Uh, there was a great article in slate, which I will also link [01:11:00] to, which is called the best Harry Potter, um, book isn’t even written by Jake out. [01:11:07] Christina: Yeah. Fair fair. No, it is interesting. [01:11:10] Um, we could do a whole episode just about all the machinations that ha all the things that happened in live journal. Cause Fred told us at six apart and then six apart, it fell apart and then they [01:11:20] Bryan: sold it to the Russians. [01:11:23] Christina: Yeah, same, same. And, um, that is also how I met, uh, Neil. And, um, uh, do you remember the original box.com, which was their, uh, their, their blogging service that was kind of live journal, but it’s supposed to be for adult. And then they sold the domain to obviously box. Um, but yeah, uh, that, yeah. Um, but it’s, um, anyway, uh, the whole thing was a mess, but the fan fixed up when they, when six-part bought them, they, it was kind of like when toddlers got rid of porn, [01:12:00] but we more dramatic and and weirdly way lower stakes. [01:12:06] Like honestly, if you really think about it, like there were still plenty of places that people could create communities around fanfiction. and, and people had, because life Turner was always open source, you know, created their own kind of instances. Uh, we’re getting rid of the porn honestly way bigger deal. [01:12:23] Uh, but, but the internet obviously reacted way more harshly to the, to the live journal. Uh, um, uh fanfic um, debacle, which because 2007 or something, [01:12:33] Bryan: I don’t know. [01:12:34] Brett: did, did Tumblr actually get rid of. [01:12:37] Bryan: Yes. [01:12:38] Brett: What is Tumblr gallery dot X, Y, Z. [01:12:43] Christina: I don’t [01:12:44] Brett: I believe someone offloaded, like I did a search for Tumblr porn and, and I got these links. I got none with big cox.tumbler.com, but the link actually goes to Tumblr [01:13:00] gallery.xyz, which appears to be like someone saved all the porn from Tumblr. [01:13:06] Bryan: well [01:13:07] Christina: that’s I see this. Okay, Nice. Um, but yeah, this was like, like two or three years ago, uh, when Yahoo still owned it, they, and it’s like dumb. It’s like [01:13:18] Brett: Well, I remember it happening. Yeah. [01:13:21] Christina: well, no, no, no, no. They, this was like two, three years ago. They got rid of it, but they actually got rid of it. They didn’t get rid of like, like people drawing naked people, like, it was, know, not, not even just like, like, like, like big cocks, but like. [01:13:34] Drawings of like naked breasts, which okay. it was like, you, you, you do realize the entire reason that tumbler exists is because of like that it had the traffic. It has because of porn. I think I even wrote something when, when, um, when Yahoo bought Tumblr and like 2012 or something, which was like, Marissa does, no, this is just a porn site. [01:13:53] Right? Like I think that, that was, I think that that was what my, um, article was, um, uh, for [01:14:00] Mashable, which now I can’t find because they nerfed archives The archives are still there, but like, I can’t Google it because they changed the slugs. And then they, they did the archiving, they got rid of any of the paragraphs spacing or HTML from the post. [01:14:17] it’s terrible. And then, because they changed the URL, it’s difficult to even find the original in the, um, archive because they did a redirect. Anyway, I can’t find it, but I do, I do recall writing something where I was like, she does realize that this is just a porn site, right? [01:14:36] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. [01:14:37] Which is like, I mean, and now Matt Mullenweg owns it, which is [01:14:41] Christina: wild $2 [01:14:43] Bryan: million. Yeah. like I’m like so mad, like be a champion for the gay community and give us tumbler quarterback. [01:14:50] Christina: Totally, totally. And he’s like, [01:14:52] Bryan: no, honestly, like really surprised Twitter porn still definitely [01:14:58] Christina: like 8 [01:15:00] 24. And still definitely think as long as [01:15:01] Brett: Is it? [01:15:01] Christina: account. [01:15:02] And I said, yeah, as long as you mark your account and that’s at w so it won’t show up in search results, but like, you can still follow accounts and like, they’re like, hell [01:15:09] Bryan: yeah, [01:15:09] Brett: I didn’t know that. I feel like I shouldn’t have. [01:15:13] Bryan: Also now I hope all of those Twitter people like those, especially those accounts, that aggregate stuff, here’s the deal that need to sign up for Twitter blue, then we can upload it. [01:15:29] Brett: Nylon and spandex rubber frog.tumbler.com. There’s there’s a wealth of, of buried borderline pornographic images on these Tumblr. Uh ripoffs anyway, um, monster cock shemale, not the, not the title of this episode, but maybe next week. [01:15:50] Christina: Maybe a future episode. That’d be cool. [01:15:54] Bryan: That’s amazing. This has been phenomenal. Um, and it’s [01:16:00] always wonderful to spend time with both of you. [01:16:02] Brett: I love your voice so much. Brian, you can come and just talk to me anytime. [01:16:07] Bryan: Gladly we’d be happy to, well, you can hear more of my voice now I now have a podcast that will read that the podcast is out now it’s called unsolicited fatties talk back. Um, and it’s available everywhere. Podcasts are So check it out. We an advice column just facts about garlic are about, or for fat people and then like put a fat liberation lens on it. [01:16:32] So it’s pretty cool. [01:16:33] Brett: Yeah, that was, that was to be released last time you were on the show. So yeah, everyone can go check it out now. [01:16:40] Bryan: Yeah. We just dropped our fourth episode, which, uh, downloads like so fascinated by downloads about podcasts like wholism, because that thing was more than like that one got more traction than all the rest of our podcasts combined, which is pretty wild. Also more people listen on Spotify than apple podcast to our podcast.[01:17:00] [01:17:00] with the rest of is interesting. two to one [01:17:05] Christina: C, C, this is why apple shouldn’t have slept on podcasts for as long as they did, because it allowed like people to like, get rid of the RSS feed and go into their like [01:17:17] Bryan: exclusive walled garden. Shit. Yeah, that’s true. [01:17:23] Brett: I, um, I’m, uh, I’m dropping a Rick roll into our show notes [01:17:29] Bryan: I love [01:17:30] Brett: for anyone who gets, um, a little curious. [01:17:39] Bryan: This is perfect. So [01:17:46] Brett: Alright, you’re welcome. [01:17:48] Bryan: thank you. [01:17:49] Brett: This has gone off the rails at this point, but all right, so everyone needs to go check out fatties talk. Uh, what’s it called? Patty stopped back [01:17:57] Bryan: unsolicited, colon, [01:18:00] fatties talk back. [01:18:00] Brett: And Christina have a great couple of weeks off. [01:18:04] Christina: Thank you. You too, Brett. And uh, everybody happy, a happy [01:18:07] Bryan: new year. [01:18:08] Brett: Hopefully I will have slept again, uh, before we talk again, but, uh, yeah, I have no idea what, what the next couple of days hold for me. [01:18:17] Bryan: Yeah. I hope you take care of yourself. Brett, [01:18:21] Brett: You guys too great talking to you. [01:18:23] Christina: great talking with you. [01:18:25] Bryan: Get some sleep. [01:18:26] Brett: Get some sleep Christiana.

Victor Agreda Jr. returns to talk shop with Brett and Christina. A bit of work talk, a bit of TV talk, and some Mac apps talk (which is Brett’s favorite thing about this show, so that’s cool, but whatever). Sponsors Bespoke Post brings you a Box of Awesome every month. $45 gets you over $70 worth of cool stuff from small businesses you’d love to know about. Overtired listeners get 20% off their first box. Pick your collection and subscribe at boxofawesome.com. Use code overtired at checkout for 20% off! Coinbase offers a trusted and easy-to-use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency. Get $10 in free Bitcoin when you sign up at coinbase.com/overtired. TextExpander: The tool Christina, Brett, and Bryan and wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Tear Soup Cowboy Bebop Weeds Hawkeye Succession Homebridge An iOS Developer Just Created the Effortless Smart Home We All Really Want Kitten Stuff Done Bartender iThoughts TextBuddy Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 267 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren. He’s Brett Terpstra and Brett. What? We’ve got to like another special guest. [00:00:11] Brett: I it’s a, it’s a repeat guest. I liked him so much. The first time around. I thought I’d bring him back. We have, uh, Victor grunted Jr. With us today. Hi [00:00:20] Christina: Ooh. [00:00:22] Victor: Good to hear. Y’all. [00:00:23] Brett: Yeah. Um, so I had Victor and Aaron on, uh, what was it? Two weeks ago? A couple of weeks ago. Yeah. So since then I pulled my, my whole leg job title shenanigans. And, uh, I don’t know if Victor listened to the last episode yet or [00:00:41] Victor: I [00:00:41] Brett: not, but I, uh, I had a good conversation with Aaron about, uh, my, how guilty I feel and how I don’t want to screw anyone over a good conversation there. [00:00:53] Uh, I’ll tell you a little bit about it after we go to like mental health corner and whatnot, but how are you Christina?[00:01:00] [00:01:00] Christina: I’m pretty good. I’m pretty good. I’m officially in vacation mode, which is nice. Although, ironically, I’m recording this from my office at Microsoft, because I had to come in today to record a video like my last year, but it was like a completely half-assed video. I mean, it was good, but like I was writing the script, like in the Uber on the way to the office, like it was one of those sorts of things because I’m off, like I’m not getting paid for today. [00:01:23] Well, I mean, I guess I am technically, but [00:01:25] Brett: Your [00:01:25] Christina: you know, well, well, no, but you know what I mean? It’s a vacation day, so it is different. Um, like you, you guys have the unlimited vacation scam. Okay. So, yeah, so I don’t have the unlimited vacation scam. I have like the actual you get paid for certain days, and then they, you know, like will catalog other days is vacation. [00:01:44] Then you get paid for those, um, sort of thing, uh, which is not a scam. Uh, and especially if you live in the state of California, uh, which I do not, but, um, anyway, I’m technically not working today, but I am working today. So I’m, I’m like, but I’m off for the rest of the year. So I’m just like [00:02:00] very excited. [00:02:01] Brett: They, uh, they told us at Oracle that, uh, nobody should work between Christmas and new years, uh, that the offices were closed and no one was going to be here. So it was like mandatory vacation, but then there were like, um, Hey, so if you want to take off, you know, a week before or after you just put it on the calendar and kind of like gently nudged us to take some time off. [00:02:25] Cause we’d met, we’d met our stretch goals for the year were we’re six months into the fiscal year and our team. I already met our stretch goals for content. So they’re basically telling us to just chill out for a little bit. So I took next, I took next week off and the week off between Christmas and new year’s. [00:02:46] So [00:02:47] Christina: Hell. Yeah. That’s, that’s very, very good. I like that. They did that. I liked that they’re forcing you to do that. Um, I do not get forced to do that because, uh, instead of what happens in, and I guess it’s, they’re forcing back. I mean, we’re encouraged [00:03:00] make no mistake like we’re and no one’s going to be working. [00:03:02] It’s like, we’re very much encouraged to take time off, but like, for me more of the forcing function is that only, um, you can only carry over days into the fall and into the next year, like, uh, like up to, up to one year’s. [00:03:14] worth. So I have, like, I had like close to two years of CEDA vacation, but only one year would go forward. [00:03:21] So I’m carrying three weeks over into next year because I didn’t take it from this year. But from the period in time, from the year before would have gone away. So I had like 82 outward. Now I actually have more than that had, uh, nineties 98 hours that I had to take. So otherwise I would lose. [00:03:37] Brett: like Victor and I, we don’t have to, we don’t have to do those mathematical calculations. [00:03:42] Christina: Which is, [00:03:43] Brett: we just take time off whenever the fuck we want to. And I have taken my time off. I do not consider this a scam. They are very supportive of like, oh yeah, he’s off [00:03:52] Christina: I’m not saying Oracle’s a scam. I’m saying the concept of not paying people for vacation as a scam and it [00:03:56] Brett: understand. We’ve been [00:03:57] Christina: correct. I’m just saying, cause if you leave the [00:04:00] company, you don’t get paid for those days. That would be remaining. [00:04:04] Brett: We also like our team due to an ambiguity in our job tickets. Um, we are, we all have to submit, uh, hours, like time sheets. And we can, like, we submit the exact same time every week. Uh, like we’re paid as if we’re salary. It doesn’t, we don’t get approved for overtime, but we still have to submit the time cards, but we can get them, uh, approved in advance. [00:04:31] So I figure if I always stay a couple months ahead on my time cards, if they fire me, I’ll still be approved to be paid for the next couple months. have no idea if that will work or not. [00:04:45] Christina: Uh, probably not, but it’s a nice thought. [00:04:49] Brett: Victor, you got some time off, right? [00:04:52] Victor: Uh, Yeah. actually I looked at the team calendar and I was Like you know what, practically everyone’s off next week. So I’m just going to take the whole week off [00:05:00] too. [00:05:00] Brett: Yeah. Like what’s the point? [00:05:02] Christina: I [00:05:02] Brett: no one would be there for you to even crack jokes to [00:05:08] Victor: uh, yeah, which is part of my job function. [00:05:11] Brett: Christina. [00:05:12] Christina: joke. You’re the joke guy, team comedian. [00:05:16] Brett: Our whole team is supposed to be funny. We’ve talked about that. We’re working on it. Uh, Victor’s definitely going to help with that. Um, I got to hook you up with Aaron, Christina to talk about, uh, doing videos for Debra. Cause she’s just getting started on it and uh, she could use your expertise. I think [00:05:35] Christina: I’d be very happy to help. [00:05:37] Brett: we all could use your expertise. [00:05:40] We, we have, we have these strong intentions of, of creating great video content and we all have some background in video and, and YouTube and, and editing and all of that. But doing it in this context is it’s new ground for all of us. I think. [00:05:59] Christina: [00:06:00] Yeah. And, and, and video’s hard. Like people think that it’s easy and it’s [00:06:03] Brett: it’s so hard. [00:06:05] Christina: And, you know, it’s one of those things. The reason is it’s like anything else it’s easy because people are, who are good at it and make it look easy, but it’s, it’s difficult. And, and you’ve got to get the right tone, which you guys will, but I’ll be happy to help out, especially since you’re doing things remotely. [00:06:18] Like I’m lucky I’m not having to do everything remotely anymore. I have a studio, but it it’s, it’s a whole other thing, but Yeah. I’ll be happy to give a, uh, an OBS and other sorts of insights and, and um, tips [00:06:30] Brett: and technique and like, just like, I would love to hear about your workflow. Like how, when you sit down to make a video from like script to cut, I’d like to hear like how it goes. W w we’ll we’ll have a, we’ll have an offline conference about that. [00:06:46] Christina: Awesome. [00:06:47] Brett: So how’s your mental health? [00:06:49] Christina: It’s okay. Um, I haven’t been sleeping Well, this week, but again, I think it’s partly a attribute to the whole like half on vacation half, not cause like I worked for. [00:07:00] Okay. So at the end of last week, I took, had to take Thursday and Friday off. And so I wouldn’t lose days. And then I had to work Monday and Tuesday, and then I’ve been off yesterday and today and tomorrow. so my sleep schedule was totally fucked, but, uh, other than that, it’s pretty good. I fly out on Sunday. I will be in Atlanta for 10 days. Um, and, uh, I think, I feel like my mental health is pretty good. How, how how’s yours? [00:07:24] Brett: Well, so let’s hear from Victor first. Cause I, I, mine might take a minute. Victor, how’s your mental health? [00:07:32] Victor: Yeah. Mine’s pretty straight forward. I’ve been feeling pretty good. You know, I’ve, uh, taken care of myself, had a, my best friend’s dog died over the weekend. Oh no, I’m so sorry. Yeah. And so I’ve just kind of, you know, you know, sometimes that, I don’t know if it distracts us or what it is, but we just have to kind of step up and put our own shit aside and help them deal with their stuff. [00:07:53] So that’s been, you know, that’s been mostly what I’ve been dealing with that. [00:08:00] I refinanced my house, so I have a whole bunch of money to play with. And so that feels good. Just like from the security staff, it’s paying crap off and thing, it is the holidays. So, you know, like, okay. Even though that we’re doing a simple holiday and I’m super lucky to get to see my kids on Christmas Eve, so that’s great. [00:08:17] Yeah. I’m good. What’s that? How old are your kids now? Oh, man. Uh, my oldest is going to turn 20 next month and my youngest yeah. Just became an adult at 18 and he just got his own like fully fledged bank account so he can get a Robin hood account so he can start like, messing about with stocks, which he’s been dying to do. [00:08:38] So it’s going to be great. Nice, nice east. He’s going to go game stock on everyone. Oh, [00:08:42] yeah. That’s excellent. That’s excellent. And actually this was not planned, but that is a good segue to our first sponsor. Right. Brett. [00:08:50] Brett: It would be, yeah, let’s do it. Let’s [00:08:53] Christina: I was going to say live, let’s do that. And then we’ll come back to your mental health stuff. Do we want. [00:08:56] Brett: Yeah. That’s perfect. [00:08:57] Sponsor: Coinbase [00:08:57] Christina: Okay. All right. All right. So [00:09:00] this episode is brought to you by Coinbase. All right. If you are like Victor’s son and you’ve been looking to up your financial portfolio, it’s always good to diversify. So why not think about cryptocurrency backed by the world’s leading investors? [00:09:14] Coinbase keeps your portfolio safe and secure while adding crypto into your mix. And Coinbase offers a trusted and easy to use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency. And they support the most popular digital currencies on the market and they make them accessible. Well to everyone, they also offer portfolio management and protection learning resources and the mobile app. [00:09:37] So you can trade securely and monitor your crypto all in one place. Millions of people in over a hundred countries, trust Coinbase with their digital assets, whether you’re looking to diversify, you’re just getting started. Like Victor sun might be, or you are searching for a better way to access. Crypto markets. [00:09:54] Start today with Coinbase. For a limited time, new users get $10 in free [00:10:00] Bitcoin. When you sign up today at coinbase.com/overtired, the offer is for a limited time only. So be sure to sign up today. That’s coinbase.com/overtired. [00:10:11] More mental health [00:10:11] Brett: Perfect. So Victor. Ever read the book tier soup. [00:10:16] Victor: Uh, [00:10:17] Brett: Uh, when my, my pit bull AMA, uh, died, Mike Rose sent me a copy of a book called tear soup, and it was so meaningful to me. And like, it’s what I send now when people people’s pets die, like it’s, it’s, it’s about grief it’s and it’s about like humans dying, but it’s super applicable to people who have lost pets that they were close to. [00:10:50] Um, and it is just like, you can like click the care button on a Facebook post and like, feel like you’re expressing [00:11:00] your, but sending that book, it will mean a lot to whoever it gets it. I highly recommend it. Let me add to your suit to our [00:11:09] Christina: please add it. Actually, thank you for that. My, uh, my aunt and uncle their, um, their dog who was only two and a half just died suddenly, like, and it was shocking because if his age is, um, uh, uh, um, yellow lab and, uh, I’m, I’m gonna have my mom send that to them. So thank you for that. [00:11:29] Brett: Yeah, it is. It’s so good. Um, let’s see. So, uh, yeah, I was going to talk about that. And then I was going to say, I have, for like three weeks, I’ve been stable and it has been great. I feel like I might be spending too much time with my girlfriend. Um, I think she might need a break for me because when I’m, when I’m stable, I just want to hang out. [00:11:55] Like I’m a little puppy and I just want to be like, Hey, what are you up to? What are you doing? What are you doing? Hey, let’s, [00:12:00] let’s hang out. Let’s you want to watch a show? Let’s do this. And I think she needs a little space. So it’s [00:12:05] Christina: She’s she’s she’s she’s like, all right, bro. Love you. Um, can, can, can we, can I maybe like have some time. [00:12:12] Brett: Yeah. And she’s pretty good about asking for that when, when she really needs it. Like when it’s at like crisis level, she’s very good at like, I just need not you right now. Um, but when she’s, when she’s in a good place and I’m in a good place, I feel like I might, I might overextend her and she’s too nice to say anything about it. [00:12:32] But I also, I’ve been waking up earlier every day, so far this week, and I have a feeling I might be going slightly manic, which will make me spend more time in my office. So she’ll get a break. And hopefully with my med changes, I won’t go like full on manic and like lose sleep and everything. So maybe things are good. [00:12:55] Christina: That would be amazing. [00:12:57] Brett: Yeah. [00:12:58] Christina: I hope So [00:12:59] Brett: [00:13:00] So in reference to, uh, our work shenanigans, I made this realization when I was like going through, like how, how will my actions affect my coworkers and talking with Aaron? And I realized, okay, If I’m in a position to advocate for my coworkers, if I’m in a place to say, this is what they’re really good at, and this is what they deserve recognition for coming from me, coming from a white male, uh, that just sounds like good management. [00:13:36] Like no matter what I said or how I try to like push credit to other people, that’s just seen as like good qualities for a manager. And fortunately our, our, the, the triumvirate that has focused down to one manager, she’s a woman. And I feel like my white male privilege gets checked a little bit by that, but I’ve just [00:14:00] realized I could accidentally advance in my career just by virtue of being a white male. [00:14:07] Christina: You you, you just realize. [00:14:09] Brett: Well, no, I mean, academically, I understood this, but it never was so obvious in practice to me that no matter what I tried to do, it just made me look like I was ready for advancement. I think that’s probably true for Victor too. I just have like three months of seniority on. [00:14:31] Victor: no, I think you’re absolutely right. Yeah. For myself, I’m just speaking for myself. Yeah, man, that must be so nice. [00:14:37] Brett: Yeah. [00:14:38] Christina: Honestly, you can’t relate to that sort of thing. I mean, I’ve been given promotions and stuff without asking before, but I’ve never just by like virtue of just existing been able to like accidentally and, and obviously you, you both work, especially like you both work your butts off, so I’m not like trying to like claim otherwise, but, um, Yeah. [00:14:55] Brett: Yeah. No offense taken. It’s just true. [00:14:59] Christina: it is. [00:15:00] [00:15:00] Brett: And I wanna, like, I want to figure out, especially because like Aaron is a woman in the tech world and I want to make sure that whatever’s good for me is good for my team and good for Aaron. And like, I don’t necessarily know how to do that. [00:15:24] Christina: So I would say. Uh, offering people opportunities is one of the big ones, because I think one of the biggest kind of unchecked areas of being like, uh, a dude in tech, um, uh, white men specifically, but not exclusively, um, is that a lot of times people will offer you opportunities and we’ll give you, uh, you know, uh, just, you know, uh, allow you to, to, to kind of take projects and run with things or, or let you do things without you even feeling like you have to ask or try. [00:15:54] It’s just kinda like, Hey, Brett, want to take this on? And, or do you want to give this presentation or do you want to do this? [00:16:00] And, um, those are the things that can lead to advance to advancement. And that leads to people, seeing you as having, you know, like expertise and, and other stuff. So offering that to, um, uh, the other people on your team, um, especially like, like women and people of color, uh, would be in my opinion, like a good thing of. [00:16:23] Brett: Yeah, well, there’s this, this question of greed where like, I, I want to advance, um, like at what point do I turn something away in favor of someone else? Like when, like I have, I have to figure out where I need to stop being selfish. And I guess like if I saw that someone else was more qualified than me, I would have no problem saying [00:16:51] Christina: no, totally well, but I also think, and sometimes it’s even in a case where it’s not even like a, I think that’s an easy one. It’s easy when somebody is clearly [00:17:00] more qualified where it’s hard is if somebody isn’t necessarily more qualified, maybe they’re the same, but you’re like, I want to do this And I think at that point, then what it becomes, and this is true for a lot of people. [00:17:12] Like I have to kind of remind myself of this too. Is that like, okay, how many opportunities have I had and how many opportunities has this person had and who is this going to make a more meaningful, like different stuff. [00:17:21] Brett: Yeah. That makes sense. Huh? [00:17:24] Christina: I’ve had, I’ve had to make that decision before, and it’s a, it’s not easy sometimes. Right. And, and, and, and, and, and when I say like, like, who is it going to like a meaningful thing? I don’t mean the bullshit. Like, I was once passed over for a promotion because they were like, oh, well, Dave has a family. [00:17:42] Right. And, and, and like, and like, that’s fucked up, right? Like, like, I don’t give a shit if Dave has a family, um, if I’m more qualified for the job, then, then I should, I should get the job. But I do mean like, okay, if all things being equal, I’m getting this opportunity to do something. But I have a lot [00:18:00] of other things that have come my way too. [00:18:01] And maybe somebody on my team, I think, especially if you’re a manager, it’s a little bit, it’s slightly different when you’re, you’re an IC. But I think even then, if you’re wanting to truly like, kind of like trying to, to better things for everyone, you kind of look and go, Hey, this person hasn’t had any opportunities and, and this, this might be a good chance for them to do it. [00:18:18] Right. You know, it, it. It is that weird thing, like you say it trying to decide how selfish do I want to be, but if you’ve had a lot of opportunities around stuff, and if it’s not something that like, you feel like in your bones, like I was made to do this, and this is a really important thing to me, which a lot of things are not, then it, it, it’s not bad to be like, Hey, maybe you should give it to so-and-so or, or offer them that opportunity. [00:18:44] The weird thing is that sometimes that isn’t always accepted. And if it isn’t like, if somebody says, no, we’d rather have you do it. Okay. Fair enough. You tried. Right. You can only go. So. [00:18:54] Brett: W when, when I have a more specific, uh, when, when this comes up [00:19:00] again for me, um, I, you will be among the people that I, I talked to for a guidance, uh, your input as someone who, whose career has followed a similar trajectory. Yeah. I’ll let you know [00:19:16] Christina: Okay. I [00:19:16] Brett: now. Everything’s [00:19:17] Christina: handle all that. No, and, and I think you’ll do it well. I mean, also I will say this, like, don’t let guilt, like don’t, don’t beat yourself up with guilt. You know what I mean? [00:19:28] Brett: Yeah. I have a hard time with that. [00:19:31] Christina: I do too, but it’s also like, there’s a certain point where a lot of times, I think, especially, um, in the last year, so a lot of people want to say the right things and are performative about like the ways they would improve things. [00:19:41] And that’s great that we all want to improve things. Like I’m all about that. But at a certain point, there is a certain thing where it’s like, people are still ultimately going to do the things that are right for them. And I don’t feel like it’s inappropriate expectation for somebody to say, okay, um, I should, I should accept [00:20:00] less. [00:20:00] Or, or, you know, like, like if somebody said, okay, well you get paid so much more than so many other people. You need to take a pay cut or give your salary to someone else. No, I can advocate and try to get more balanced, but I’m not going to like give up. I’m not going to swap salaries with someone just because of like systemic injustice like that. [00:20:18] That’s just not the world that we live in. Uh, people who will do that, uh, more power to you. I would like to meet that person genuine. [00:20:24] Brett: I think I might do that. Like if I felt again, like if someone was. Equally qualified for a promotion, just as an example. Uh, and, and I saw that I had a far better chance than they did simply by virtue of my race, ethnicity, gender. I, I feel like maybe it would just be to assuage my own guilt. I don’t know. [00:20:49] But [00:20:49] Christina: And we’ll look, you, you, you’re not putting yourself up for the promotion as one thing, But [00:20:53] if you’re offered it, are you saying that you would, you would turn down the promotion, you would say no, I want you to give it to this person. [00:20:58] Brett: I think, I think I [00:21:00] have it in me to do that. [00:21:01] Christina: Well, I mean, that’s cool. What I, but I wasn’t even talking about that. I was saying like somebody saying, okay, you make this much money. This person makes this much money switch. [00:21:09] Brett: Yeah. That [00:21:09] Christina: like that, that, that I’m not, I’m not down with. Right. Um, but if you are saying you would you would, you know, if offered something, but I would also say a lot of cases, these aren’t zero-sum games, you know what I mean? [00:21:22] Like if you were to turn down that promotion that is in no way a guarantee that someone else will get it in their place, like, that’s not how that works. So you have to take those things into consideration too. Right? Like it’s really noble for people to think that, but like, that’s not actually how that works most of the time. [00:21:40] Unfortunately. [00:21:41] Brett: I feel like in a case where they wanted you to switch salaries with somebody, which I don’t think is a real thing, [00:21:46] Christina: No. [00:21:47] Brett: if it were, I feel like in the corporate world, you can just make you just add the budget and make the other person make the same [00:21:57] Christina: No. That’s what I’m saying. That, that this is my point, [00:22:00] right? Is, is that we, we, we live in these sorts of systems with the same thing, goes with promos, right? Like, you know, if, if they are offering you a promo and if, if someone else doesn’t get it, like if it’s, you know, there’s not necessarily like it, a lot of, a lot of the, the, the leveling stuff is, is arbitrary. [00:22:20] Um, and, and if you were to say, no, I don’t want to take this. That’s not a guarantee that they will actually give it to the person that, that you think is more, you know, um, worthy. [00:22:31] TV and bad drug dealers [00:22:31] Brett: Yeah. What a fun game. Hey Victor, what are you watching on TV right now? [00:22:38] Christina: Oh, my gosh, what am I watching? Well, there’s a hot guy, I guess, would be the only new [00:22:42] Brett: Oh, has that [00:22:42] Christina: with. Yeah. It’s almost done. It’s so fricking good. [00:22:45] I haven’t caught up on the most recent episode, but it’s really good. Um, and I don’t even like Jeremy Renner and I kinda can’t stand Jeremy Renner and yet I like him. I like Hawkeye Hailee Steinfeld. [00:23:00] Isn’t it. She’s amazing. She’s really good. She like, um, uh, originally I think apparently like apple had her, she got out of the contract. [00:23:10] Clearly. She CA like had her back, but, or whoever her agent is, I’m assuming she’s repped by CA. Um, a TV plus they’re like, oh, well you can’t do anything for any other streamer. And, uh, you know, as you got the Hawkeye offering, clearly they, they like went, you know, like the Asians went and hammered away, like at that clause. And they were like, mm, no, That’s kind of a ridiculous thing. We were talking, you’re not talking like seven year contracts with TV shows where you’re, you know, booked for six months at a time, you know, you’re talking about like six episodes of something. [00:23:44] Like that’s a little ridiculous to be like, oh, you’re on an apple TV plus show. You can’t ever do a show for Netflix or Amazon or Disney or whoever. Um, but, uh, no, she’s really, really good in it. And, uh, uh, he’s good in it. Like, it’s, it’s good.[00:24:00] [00:24:00] Brett: That’s alright. Yeah, I gotta get my shit together and start watching that, I guess. [00:24:05] Christina: I think he would appreciate us. Sorry. Well, yeah, I have, I have seen literally this episode and that’s the thing is that like you see him get progressively, wearier like more tired. Cause he’s, I mean, it’s, it’s a classic, I’m not spoiling anything by saying he’s trying to get home in time for Christmas. So it’s, it’s like planes, trains and automobiles in the Marvel universe. [00:24:25] Uh, and, and I think Brett you’ll appreciate just as sort of like general exhaustion. Um, and, and, and then the sort of like forced mentoring that happens and whatnot. It’s it’s got a great dynamic. It’s just it’s so well done. Um, yeah. It’s it’s super fun. [00:24:41] Brett: Cool. I, uh, I finished cowboy bebop [00:24:46] Christina: Yeah. I tried. [00:24:48] Brett: right, before, oh man, I loved it. But right before the last episode I read that Netflix had already canceled it, [00:24:55] Christina: they already canceled it. [00:24:56] Brett: which so, so the first thing I did after finishing cowboy [00:25:00] bebop was go back and, and watch the first episode of the anime version. And they nailed it like the live action version, nails, everything about the anime version. [00:25:13] And I don’t understand how fans of the anime version weren’t able to convert to the live or maybe it wasn’t those fans that were the problem. [00:25:22] Christina: I know. See, well, that’s, that’s part of the problem, right? Is that any more, I’ve got a friend who read all the wheel of time books, right. And Amazon prime has the wheel of time stuff going on right now. And every, like for week after week, he was going through and just getting, getting kind of nasty about how terrible he thought it was, because it was so different or it started veering away from the source material. [00:25:46] And then he saw some podcast or something and it changed his mind. He realized, oh, I can just enjoy it for what it is. And I’m like, that’s pretty much where it falls now is like, you can either enjoy the thing. Or you can grouse about all the little [00:26:00] nonsense and it’s like, just enjoy the damn thing, you know, or don’t and shut up. [00:26:04] Brett: I mean, especially in the case of, in the case of cowboy bebop, like I, I went through all the, uh, episode summary, a synopsis of the anime version, and it seems like it’s a one-to-one match with what happens in the live action version. Like they basically just remade. On existing season of cowboy bebop from start to finish. [00:26:27] And I actually, like, I would have loved to see season two, let them go like off book and just see where it went from there. But it’s a moot point. Netflix has killed it. [00:26:38] Christina: Yeah. And I have to say, I mean, this is one of those things where like I tried, I really couldn’t get into it. [00:26:45] And I agree with you Victor. Like, it is hard when you’re at this point, because there is no original IP anymore. Everybody is just remaking and redoing stuff. It’s ridiculous. Um, it’s like, come on and come up with the personal ideas. [00:26:55] There are a million people who have them, um, You know, you can run into that thing where [00:27:00] people just want to complain or not enjoy it. Uh, in this case, I do feel like the, the showrunner made some mistakes. So he was like, you’re being very vocal about the fact that, oh, we want it to be less. We don’t want it to be that dystopic. [00:27:10] And I’m like, okay, the whole point is, is dystopia, but whatever. Uh, but, but I, I just personally couldn’t get into it. I’m glad you enjoyed it. But I do, this does bother me about like this, this era of, um, streaming, where all of the decisions are metrics driven. Um, you know what I mean? Like, um, and not, not that ratings didn’t ever before determine whether a show is going to be renewed or canceled. [00:27:36] It, it quite frankly has always played a major role, but it seems, but at least in like the more traditional age, there was also an element of. You know, how loyal is your fan base? How affluent is the demographic? Uh, does this have a words? Potential? Does an executive just really like the show and it feels like Netflix is almost entirely like they, they look at how many views did it have in the first 24 hours and how many [00:28:00] people have continued to tune in? [00:28:01] And if you aren’t a hit out of the park, you are screwed because they launch it all at once. And so you never have a chance for shows that start slow, but then become bonafide hits ironically like the office, which, uh, you know, until it left, Netflix was the most popular television show on Netflix. Uh, even though, you know, it had been, you know, it was owned by another company and was in reruns like that, that show did ridiculous numbers, which is why NBC got it for peacock. [00:28:28] Um, Well, now you’ve got a very app store mentality. Right? Right. It’s whatever it takes off immediately. And I’m saying, but you miss out on things that could be massive bonafide hits. Like there are countless shows that start slow and then become massive cultural phenomenons. And you even see the inverse where a show that didn’t work on TV is huge on Netflix. [00:28:47] The Netflix will pick it up again, but they won’t use those same things for their own renewals. They’re like, all right, it’s a month after the show came out, the ratings aren’t there. We’re canceling it. [00:28:58] Imagine the Mandalorian all being [00:29:00] released at once. I don’t think it would have had nearly the audience that it built in the end, you know, no way, great. [00:29:08] One division at the same thing, you know, which, which did very well at one division was booed. My favorite shows of the year. And, um, and I like the Disney. I liked that apple. I liked that. Um, you know, Amazon to some things I like that they’re doing like the, the week by week thing. I, I feel like we all like to binge watch, but you do miss out on that, like ability to, to see if there’s a grower in there. [00:29:29] You know, like sometimes it takes more time than, than four weeks or three weeks or however long. It was two weeks. I don’t even, it felt like it was two weeks before they were like, yep. We’re we’re not renewing . It’s like really? [00:29:43] Brett: So I, um, I’m also watching Dexter right now and it’s on that week by week schedule, uh, that new blood. And I am like, I’m at a point in that. And where I am ready to binge, like the episode ends in, I immediately, [00:30:00] like at first I was okay. Waiting a week. Cause it was, it was, you know, building up. But now man, I want it all at once. [00:30:06] Christina: No, and I, I hear you, and there are plenty of people who will wait until something ends all the way to go through it. But I don’t know, I’ve kind of enjoyed the process. And the last year was more of the shows that I watch have moved away from Netflix and are, are on that week by week thing where I’ve kind of been like, no, I know that I have a weekly thing to look forward to, you know, like it’s hard, but it’s nice. [00:30:25] Like, you know, you get to be excited about Sundays again. Um, the, uh, the new sex and the city, um, and just like that, you know, they released two episodes at once, but, but like, I think that the next episode comes out like tonight and like, I’m going to be very excited to be watching that. And, and I’m excited to have those moments again, like Ted lasso. [00:30:43] Was it similar thing? [00:30:44] Brett: like waiting every week for Ted lasso was delicious. Like I loved Ted lasso night. That was, that was, it was [00:30:51] Christina: That was awesome. Yeah. [00:30:53] Brett: And it’s not the same. Like I can’t, I could, I could go back and binge like Ted lasso from the beginning. And I won’t say I [00:31:00] haven’t, but it’s not the same as that like waiting week to week, that’s actually kind of fun in some cases. [00:31:06] Christina: It really is it really isn’t as some cases you’re like, I don’t love this show. So, you know, so much that I w I look forward to it. So I would rather watch it all at once. But in some cases, you know, it kind of goes, it can go either way, which is the nice thing, which is like, you’re like, okay, I know how many episodes this is. I, can just wait until it’s all up and watch it. But I’m actually, it’s funny. I watched my parents, uh, even though they’ve had apple TV because they, they use their cable box for their primary thing, even though they have an LG, very expensive LGTB that has the stuff built into it. And they have an Amazon fire stick. [00:31:40] They have all this stuff, but they don’t know how to use it. So they hadn’t watched Ted lasso or anything else. And so, uh, at Thanksgiving we watched it and it was so funny because I think the first night, I think we watched five or six episodes of the first season. And, and, and, and, and my dad cause like, as hell, he was kind of like hesitant. [00:31:56] I was like, no, you’re really gonna like this. And I could tell he was kind of hesitant. [00:32:00] And then in the first episode, All right, let’s do another one. And then after each one, they’re like, let’s do another one. Let’s do another one. And, and, uh, you know, it was, it was really great. I was hesitant as well, by the way, with Ted lasso. [00:32:13] Cause like I’m not a big sports sky and I don’t, you know, I don’t get the jokes or whatever, but like that. Yeah. Anyway, we, and it’s such a great show. The [00:32:21] Brett: I had to hear idear a lot of the buzz around it before I ever gave it a chance. [00:32:26] Christina: Yeah. [00:32:28] Brett: I have to say one thing before we take our sponsor break, I kept telling you I was going to start watching weeds again. And I did. And I’m up to like season six now. I think I’ve just been, it’s been like my background show, but one thing I have realized that I’ve never realized before is exactly how bad a drug dealer Nancy is in that show. [00:32:53] Christina: she really is The worst. I [00:32:55] Brett: worst, like the only reason she survives from season to season [00:33:00] is, is her good looks and her sex appeal [00:33:04] Christina: Oh, yeah. [00:33:05] Brett: as a drug dealer. She is shit. [00:33:07] Christina: Yeah. Like it is kind of one of those amazing things. You’re like, how, how, how did you not wind up? You know, like, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s like, why are you not on orange? Is the new black, you know what I mean? Like, [00:33:19] Brett: should have been dead or in jail so many times and she keeps letting other people screw her over. Like she lets friends screw over every episode and she never learned, she never learns. And she’s also a horrible mom. Like the worst mom. Yeah. [00:33:34] Christina: oh yeah, yeah. But it’s such a great show. And now I’m thinking about Justin Kirk, who? I just, I love Justin Kirk and her brother, the guy who [00:33:41] Brett: Oh yeah, Andy. [00:33:43] Christina: Eddie. Yeah, He sees the bad. [00:33:44] Brett: Yeah, he’s in, uh, we’re watching modern family now, too. And he shows up as, uh, Mitchell’s boss. [00:33:51] Christina: He, um, he’s in an episode of succession this season, which, uh, I, I don’t know. Did either of you watch succession? No. [00:34:00] Okay. It’s it’s my favorite show. Um, [00:34:02] Brett: hearing about it. I feel like I’m going to have to give it another shot. I watched two episodes and I hated [00:34:07] Christina: yeah, no, you gave it a try. I mean, it’s a dark comedy and it’s, it’s sort of as a satire, it’s like, it’s like a mellow mellow dromedy I think is what we decided. Um, cause there is definitely some kind of dramatic aspects, but a lot of it is just kind of satire and, and it’s very, you know, dark, you know, kind of know a lot of ways kind of making fun of these bridge BD people, but in other ways, it’s. [00:34:30] It’s a good, I love it. But, but, um, he was in an episode, he was playing like a, uh, a real like piece of shit, like mega type of a candidate in an episode this season. And, uh, it was, it was great seeing him, uh, Stephen root, um, uh, was, was in the same episode. And I was like, I just want to have a spinoff of just the two of them, because two of my favorite actors, [00:34:52] Sponsor: Bespoke Post [00:34:52] Brett: That sounds awesome. You know what else is awesome. [00:34:55] Christina: Y [00:34:56] Brett: A box of awesome. That was a [00:35:00] segue. Did you catch it? [00:35:01] Christina: I did. [00:35:02] Brett: Th this winter upgrade your daily routine with bespoke post and their new seasonal lineup of must have box of awesome collections, bespoke post partners with small businesses and emerging brands to bring you the most unique goods every month. [00:35:17] My very first box of awesome came with gear that I’ve used everyday since including a great lock blade knife that has become everyday carry for me. Uh, no matter what you’re into box of. Awesome. Has you covered from winter cocktails to cozy threads and camping gear essentials box of awesome has collections for every part of your life. 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Um, [00:36:33] Home Automation Sucks [00:36:33] Brett: Um, so let’s see, uh, uh, Victor added some home automation notes to our show notes. And I’m super curious, because that is a long, long standing love of mine is home automation. [00:36:48] And I will say that it constantly sucks and I keep coming back to it. [00:36:54] Victor: I remember that that’s a, that’s one of your, you know, one of your things. Cause we, we had an early [00:37:00] discussion years ago, years and years ago now, uh, about X, 10 modules. And you had just created the most. Insane X 10 set up, I think I’d ever heard of. Um, and so since then, of course we’ve had raspberry PI after raspberry PI come out and I’m a big fan of HomeBridge. [00:37:21] Um, and which has, you know, simplified a lot of things. But then I saw just as I put that on, uh, the document I saw yesterday, Gizmodo had a story about an iOS developer just created the effortless, smart home. We all really want. And basically they’re, they’re going around and like aiming their iPhone at different stuff. [00:37:41] And it’s showing, oh Yeah. [00:37:42] you can turn this on. You can turn this off or whatever. And you know, it’s, it’s kind of like augmented reality. Um, I dunno, it is, it’s the kind of effortless, smart stuff that you want, but you know, we’re not going to have for another 10 years, let’s say [00:37:57] Brett: Yeah. [00:37:58] Christina: if ever, because [00:38:00] people get so like, addicted, like we could do it now. [00:38:02] Victor: It’s just like, everybody wants their own standard. And once you’re on like thing, yeah. There is a thing called I think it’s called matter, uh, that, that people are trying to get a, a standard together on, but again, I mean, yeah, it’s W w there’s data is the new oil or whatever, right. And so Google wants to have your, your stuff go in it’s thing. [00:38:24] Microsoft wants their, you know, everybody wants their thing. Right. I get that. And so it’s the question of whether that standard is going to allow people to keep doing business the way they do business, um, but make interoperability possible. And I don’t know, I haven’t looked at the spec, but God, that’s the. [00:38:42] Uh, it really is. It’s so funny because you mentioned the Gizmodo post and before you even told me who it was, I knew that it was who wrote it. So I just went and found the post. I was like, yep. This is like, I literally went because their website sucks now. Like the, in terms of being able to browse, like everything that’s come out. [00:38:58] Like they fucking [00:39:00] geo media, they suck. Um, and so I couldn’t find like the post, like on like the main, like, like website. And so I just, like, I literally like went to his byline because I knew that it was his and I was like, yep, there it is. Yeah. And this is not for like regular, I mean, it’s, it’s using the Yuan, the ultra wide band, you one chip, uh, in, in spending like the iPhone 11 and up, I believe. [00:39:20] And so, I mean, I’d love to try it, but there’s a lot of other setup that has to happen. But again, I mean, with something like HomeBridge, which again, I, I’m not like it’s an open source project and all that. Uh, I’ve been able to bridge a bunch of really crappy. Uh, wish.com lights that I got. Uh, and I don’t give a crap who knows when I’m turning lights on and off. [00:39:40] I don’t give it, you know, it’s like, whatever. Um, and so, but it’s been great because Siri doesn’t support any of that crap. Um, and you know, you set it up, you gotta view things every now and again, you make sure everything’s updated and that’s it, it just runs reliably on a raspberry PI.[00:40:00] [00:40:00] Brett: W w w you running HomeBridge on a raspberry. Nice. I’m running home bridge on a 2012 Mac mini and it’s constant. The node process is constantly failing and I have to like manually go in and reboot it and I need to figure out how to make it more dependable. [00:40:19] Christina: Yeah. This is just a little pie three actually. That’s uh, yeah, easy peasy. [00:40:24] Brett: Nice. Uh, for anyone who doesn’t know at HomeBridge is, uh, it’s, it’s a platform that makes home kit accessible to let’s see, how would you explain it? [00:40:37] Victor: Like other third-party like stuff that isn’t normally a Siri company like home kit compatible, I should say. And, it’ll, what’s great is that it populates on the home app. Uh, so you can actually see things that you wouldn’t have normally been able to see before you won’t have necessarily always full control. [00:40:51] And it is a little bit like a plugin, you know, marketplace or whatever, where you’ve got a lot of different, there could be five different. [00:41:00] Plugins or solutions for a off-brand wifi light, like the ones that I’ve got. Right. Um, so you have to kind of see and their star ratings and all that kind of thing. [00:41:09] Again, it’s its own little ecosystem, but for the most part it’s pretty reliable. I’ve heard some things don’t work better than others or whatever. So your, your mileage will vary considerably, but none of this should be this difficult to begin with. Right. I mean, [00:41:23] Brett: yeah. [00:41:24] Victor: we should all auto detect and talk and you just be like, Hey, I’m going to bed. [00:41:29] Turn off all the damn lights and you know [00:41:31] Brett: things are way better than they used to be. Uh, back when, like when, um, what’s a big B no ZigBee [00:41:40] Christina: yeah, yeah. [00:41:41] Brett: Back when the, when it used to be just X 10, then it was X tenant and Stijn, and there was one other big protocol and then things kind of exploded nothing talked to anything else. And you had to, you had to buy into one system and ever since home kit became a [00:42:00] thing, like we’ve had all these different manufacturers that have had at least one, uh, kind of protocol that they can agree on. [00:42:09] And sure you can get locked into like an Amazon ecosystem or an iOS ecosystem and apps like HomeBridge can, can create, can bridge those systems, but you really only have like two or three major protocols now instead of nine or 10. And, and they can talk to each other. And I have HomeBridge hooked into my indigo controller, which controls all of my, most of my home automation stuff is. [00:42:39] Home kit compatible or Amazon, or like echo compatible for that matter. Uh, but I can do it all through indigo and indigo has a home bridge plugin, so I can access all of my, uh, like Insteon devices, for example, from both my echo and from [00:43:00] Siri. And it it’s just so much better than it used to be. [00:43:06] Christina: Which is awesome. I just wish that they would, you know, that it was like easier for normal people to get set up with these things. Like, and I think What the HomeBridge project has done is is really phenomenal for that. But you know what I mean? Like, it still is ridiculous that a lot of people still, they have to rely on, you know, openings up on the button, the box, and then you have, even if they are using one of three standards, like you have to run like 40,000 apps to do that stuff. [00:43:30] And, and, and it’s like, okay, you know, that’s, it’s just, it’s frustrating because we could solve. [00:43:38] Brett: My system is complex and fragile, like fragile to a fault. One thing goes wrong and all of a sudden, I can’t turn on my office lights and it’s not, it’s not good. I like it. It’s fun. It’s a fun hobby, but it is not ready for the mainstream. [00:43:53] Christina: No totally. Which is why most people who have like the really like high-end systems and whatnot, like [00:44:00] there’s, there’s a whole dedicated market. Like a people who are not, you know, like a hobbyist who, people who spend tens of thousands of dollars to do that, and there’s works great, but it costs tens of thousands of dollars. [00:44:10] And that is sad to me. [00:44:13] Brett: Yeah. I finally got Z-Wave devices working with my, my home automation system and Z-Wave is super easy to set up. Seems to be more reliable than in Sihon. Um, look, I I’ll probably be expanding my, my home automation using Z-Wave. Uh, partly the devices are just cheaper than buying like home kit compatible stuff. [00:44:37] Yeah, [00:44:39] Victor: Wow. Uh, it also, I will say the home, I dunno. Is it called the home app or the home kit app? I don’t think home. Of course. Yeah. Male. [00:44:49] Brett: Right? Calender. [00:44:51] Victor: yeah, exactly. So, but the, the home app, like I get how, uh, after trying to set some of these things up, [00:45:00] I get how difficult that is. I, I’m not saying the home app is good. [00:45:04] It could be a billion times better. Like a lot of apple, like early software. That’s still evolving. Um, this is the larval stage still. But at the same time, it’s like, again, none of that should be that difficult because if Siri were better at parsing language, right, you would be able to say something like, please turn everything off. [00:45:23] You know, I’m going to bed or whatever. And it could even ask you like, oh, would you like me to turn off the lights off? Because that would be a logical thing. I don’t have to share my day. This is why it kills me. Apple is so strict about like, we’d ever get anything. We don’t know you, your iPhone could be on Mars. [00:45:38] Who cares? Right. Like, okay, great, please. Like, this is not difficult to just say, Hey, a lot of people go to bed. And when they do, they turn the lights off. Right, right. No, it’s, it’s not that difficult. And it’s also one of those things. It’s like, okay, you, you want to talk about like the privacy and this and that, but also you want to make it, like, you don’t even have any API APIs where [00:46:00] you could still protect stuff and do it locally on the device, right. [00:46:02] Christina: To control things, right? Like you can at least have the API APIs and have some sort of SDK where people didn’t have to rely solely within your own ecosystem. And you could like maybe make it callable from something else, just a thought, right? Like maybe BB accept that people already have ecosystems full of stuff and don’t want to use your thing. [00:46:19] And it’s weird. Cause it’s like they will make, you know, um, uh, they will make trade-offs when it seems to affect their adult, their bottom dollar. Right? Like they, they will allow you to have apple music on your echo and they will allow you to, you know, buy Amazon purchases from your apple TV, through your Amazon accounts. [00:46:36] Um, you know, and, and, and whatnot. But like those other things, it’s like, oh no, I can’t control. No, I can’t tell it was to turn the lights off because God forbid the, a different app that I use, you know, has access to that functionality. Yeah. Yeah. But who knows? Now there could be some enterprising kid. [00:46:56] Victor: Who’s got some shortcut thing that they’ve made because my, my, my [00:47:00] son and his friends have created some really clever, uh, they made one that was able to get YouTube to play in the background. Even if he didn’t have a premium account. I love this. Oh man. Yeah, they they’ve got some good ones. I’ll have to ask about it. [00:47:13] Brett: Can you get Siri to, can you get Siri to play music on Spotify instead of apple music? [00:47:19] Christina: No, [00:47:20] Brett: No, you can. On, on your echo, [00:47:24] Christina: I know. [00:47:25] Brett: Amazon will do it. [00:47:26] Christina: Amazon will do it. Sonos will do it. [00:47:28] like everybody else we’ll literally do it except for them. And, and, and, um, it’s, it’s apple has opted not to, to do those things. And then they’re like, oh, well, Spotify doesn’t want to adopt this. And That It’s Like, no, they, the terms you make are so, onerous that they’re like, you know, it’s a pain just like you can’t use a home pod to play Spotify, which, sorry, but it’s bad enough that you can’t have multi users on a home kit, which [00:47:52] Brett: That [00:47:52] Christina: Or whole pod on pod, but like you buy this $500 speaker and $350 speaker, sorry. And you’re like, Nope. Can only use [00:48:00] apple music. [00:48:00] Brett: it’s killing me. Cause like I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m trying to get out of the Amazon ecosystem. Um, and I have a bunch of echoes around the house that I use pretty regularly. And, uh, I would far rather be using Siri, uh, even if it’s not as good in some areas, but if I’m going to spend that kind of money on, if I’m going to put like home pod minis around my house, I want to be able to use Spotify. [00:48:29] Like that’s a big deal for. [00:48:31] Christina: Agreed agreed. I mean, and I would say, honestly, I’m a huge Sonos fan for that reason, because you can use it with everything and they are, um, you know, like making, they’re working on their own kind of voice assistant thing, but you can, you know, because it has, and it has, um, airplay to support. So you can even control it through your, you know, home pod and whatnot, but it has, you know, serious support. [00:48:53] It has, um, [00:48:55] Brett: Yeah, but I need, I need the home assistant function. Like I’m [00:49:00] not just replacing the speakers. I actually need the home assistant [00:49:04] Christina: No, I understand that. [00:49:05] Brett: Doesn’t have an assistant do [00:49:07] Christina: nobody can use it can use Siri or it can use echo work can use Google and they’re actually working on their own as well. But yeah, no, it can use all those things. So you could talk to it the same way you could talk to any Amazon device, but you could also, um, and they’re working on their own kind of voice assistant thing to use, like, you know, agnostically or you could use Siri or you could use, um, uh, Google play. [00:49:28] Brett: Alexa can speak pig Latin, can Siri speak pig Latin? [00:49:32] Christina: I don’t think so. [00:49:34] Brett: I’m not going to try it right now, but um, oh, I have to turn this up because I literally just told Alexa to speak pig [00:49:41] Christina: I was going to say, it’s going to start playing like, like it did last [00:49:44] The gang learns Ruby [00:49:44] Brett: Yep. It’s it’s happening. Um, I’m covering for it. Um, yeah. Okay. So what, uh, what, what is this note Victor about? Can anyone cook? W what’s the, uh, what’s that prompt for [00:49:58] Christina: I don’t know, there was nothing else. Can [00:50:00] [00:50:00] Brett: says, can anyone cook that gang learns Ruby? [00:50:03] Christina: Oh, oh, well, no. That’s related to our work adventures and learning. I mean, you don’t need to learn a lot of Ruby? [00:50:10] probably because you already know a thing or two about a thing or two, but, uh, for, for, uh, Erin and I, it’s going to be quite the adventure. [00:50:16] Brett: It was going to be interesting because, okay, so we have this plan to like multiply our content, start actually doing the tutorials, creating blogs and podcasts, and screencasts out of them. And the first content that, that we were looking at doing, uh, Victor jumped on some new stuff coming from, uh, Golang, uh, like working in NGO, which was going to put us all on pretty even footing. [00:50:41] Cause I’ve never written a line of go. Um, and somehow that project turned into a Ruby project apparently, which does put me at a significant advantage, but also puts me in a place where I can actually help my, my coworkers get through some tutorials. We won’t all be starting from [00:51:00] scratch, but I was kind of looking forward to learning. [00:51:04] Victor: Well, we can always go back to that. You know what I mean? [00:51:06] Brett: I want to learn rust. We should see if they [00:51:08] Christina: Yeah. I, I was going to say, I want to learn breast personally. [00:51:13] Brett: Yeah. Um, I also need to get better at node. I have, uh, uh, start with node, but node content is on our list of things that I think we need to flush out for Oracle. So maybe we’ll get to that too. Victor. What, what do you have any languages, any current languages that you are proficient in? [00:51:34] Victor: Uh, any current languages I’m amp? No, Not really. I mean, I was, I was learning some swift, a Western and I were putting together a, an app for getting stuff done actually. And so we were playing with swift and that, and that, so that was fun, but especially like oh God, this was, uh, over a year ago. Um, and it was just, it was cool to see like the progress that had been made. [00:51:57] But yeah, I wouldn’t call myself proficient in [00:52:00] swift basically. [00:52:01] Brett: Um, I want to come back to kittens stuff done in a second, but, um, yeah, like it’s going to be fun. I’m looking forward to this new era we’re ushering in at Oracle dev role of actually having the tech writers, uh, do the tutorials. So we actually know what we’re talking about. Cause we get corrections from people like, Hey, this, this line in this tutorial doesn’t work. [00:52:26] And we all just scratch our heads and say, Hey, can you tell us what will, because [00:52:30] Victor: Right. [00:52:31] Brett: we, we, we haven’t actually done this. It’s it’s going to be, it’s going to be better. Um, what is kitten stuffed on Victor? [00:52:39] Victor: Oh, gosh, uh, I’ll have a deck on me. Uh that’s anyone could see it anyway, but it’s a, it’s a set of cards that helps you manage time. Um, so if you, if you get easily distracted, it kind of works on the Pomodoro principle of setting a timer. I think about 25 minutes, these are all 30 minute cards. Most of them, um, to do things like email check, social [00:53:00] media, whatever, uh, especially if you, if you’re trying to track your time, which some people find very useful. [00:53:06] Um, but yeah, it was, I got a V1 version out there. Um, and I still have some people on any to ship them to You So that’s, that’s terrible. I, I did not use the program as well as I should have, frankly, but we’re getting there. We’re getting back on track. [00:53:20] Brett: You need SSL on your website? [00:53:22] Victor: Yes, I know, right? Yeah. That’s why he can’t buy anything on there. [00:53:28] Brett: That’s cool. [00:53:29] Victor: Informational purposes only use caddy, get a, get a, get a let’s encrypt cert on it, but yes. [00:53:37] Brett: Who did the, uh, who did the artwork for this? [00:53:40] Victor: Um, a bunch of different people, actually, that was what was fun, was like going around and, and soliciting, like if I paid all the artists, but like some people were friends of mine, some people were friends of friends. [00:53:50] Um, and, uh, and then the logo was done by a former student of mine actually said was neat. [00:54:00] [00:54:01] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:54:01] Brett: All right. So our last sponsor today is, is a crowd favorite text expander. Do you ever type the same thing over and over and over again? Whether it’s customer support, answers, sales, emails, or document edits, typing things repetitively or using copy and paste can be a burden. That’s where text expander comes in with text expander. [00:54:25] You and your team can keep your message consistent, save time and be more productive and be accurate every time eight. It turns your basic, a couple keystrokes, a shortcut into. Short, medium, long text images, whatever you need to insert, and you can make them flexible with fill-ins. Uh, so you can have it asked you at the time it expands a snippet while say what, what the two name is, and then it will generate a form letter using that two names. [00:54:56] So it can be different every time. Um, and the way we, [00:55:00] the way we work is changing rapidly, make work happen wherever you are by saying more in less time. And with less effort using text expander show listeners get 20% off their first year. Visit Tex expander.com/podcast to learn more about text expander. [00:55:21] Your Mac Apps Fix [00:55:21] Brett: So, um, I had some after the text expander posts, I thought we could talk about max stuff a little bit. [00:55:29] Christina: Yeah, let’s do it. [00:55:31] Brett: down for them. [00:55:32] Christina: I’m totally down for that. I had the most ridiculously weird bug trying to update my Mac to twelve.one, like, but I did solve it, but it was, it was weird. Did anybody else have a problem updating to twelve.one? [00:55:45] Brett: Um, no, no. That update went smoothly on my Mac book pro I still haven’t updated my mini two 12 at all. [00:55:54] Christina: Right. Right. So for me, did we lose Victor? No, no, no. I’m still here. I just, I don’t [00:56:00] do updates no more. Gotcha. Well, so I, my like Mack came with 12 on it, so I, I couldn’t, you know, do anything about it. And I had like, actually some issues. So I needed update. Like I had a crashing bug, like an HTTP three crashing bug and mail.app. [00:56:13] So like in mail app, it would literally be run for like five minutes and then it would hard crash and that is sort of untenable to use. So I need you to it. And that actually was fixed in the update. But, um, I got this thing where like the, um, uh, this X code tools, CLI tools, there was an update for that, but there was no update for twelve.one, no matter what I did. [00:56:37] And, um, and I tweeted about it and some other people had the issue too. And their like solution was to go into recovery mode and do that. And then I’m like, I’m not, I’m not going into recovery mode. I know that it’ll leave my stuff away, but I’m not doing a re. Essentially just to get a freaking, you know, system update, like I’m not doing that. [00:56:56] So, um, someone actually, uh, at [00:57:00] first in my first I saw it on Twitter, but then, um, I, because for whatever reason, my tweet became a Mac, um, a nine to five Mac story, which is funny. Uh, although it was very, it was very cute. They called me Microsoft journalist and senior cloud developer advocate. I’m like, I’m not a Microsoft journalist. [00:57:17] I’m a, I’m a cloud developer advocate. I’m not, not journalist at Microsoft [00:57:22] Brett: Close [00:57:23] Christina: Um, close enough. [00:57:24] uh, Christina, we’re a bit like that, that like left them, like write a whole post about it. And somebody in the comments was like, oh no, you have to S you have to, um, stop this process of this update brain process. [00:57:35] And then if you stop, if you forced quit that process and then like, you know, had the system update thing up, then twelve.one would appear, then you would try to start it, but it wouldn’t have any network connection. You’d stop it. You restart the download. Then it went down. Then I was able to finally get it to update. [00:57:53] So it took forever, but I did get, get my updates. So I’m happy with that. But what, uh, what backs up you want to talk about Brett? [00:57:59] Brett: [00:58:00] Well, so I got this random tip this morning. Uh, someone was using bunch and they were also using bartender, the menu bar management tool. Yes. Amazing app, uh, which in the current version in version four of bartender, you can have, um, menu items hide, and then when they need to become visible, you can have them do so with a shortcut key. [00:58:26] Um, so that he was hiding the bunch menu item, and then using the bunch shortcut key to. Open bunch, uh, cause you can do bunch of all with keyboard, but it was revealing itself like on the wrong display. And uh, it wasn’t a bunch issue. It was a bartender issue and the work around is to disable the global shortcut and bunch or whatever, whatever app you you’re trying to do this with. [00:58:57] And then in bartender [00:59:00] preferences, go to hot keys, add, add a hot key for the menu item, set it to left, click and then just use that because then it makes the menu item visible in the main menu bar before it clicks it. And it’s a perfect workaround. I use it with a couple of other apps, including text expander and uh, it’s, it’s just a good tip to know, I guess. [00:59:23] Christina: Yeah, I’ve been using that for I’m like I have like control center set up for like, like a command space and, uh, [00:59:30] Brett: I didn’t even think [00:59:31] Christina: or, or a command dot rather. And, and like, that’s awesome because then, like, I just have to hit like command dot and like it pulls up control center, which is really useful. And, [00:59:41] Brett: it were a keyboard navigable. [00:59:43] Christina: um, yeah, I wish the control center was, but everything else in the way you can set a bartender to do that is which is really useful. [00:59:50] I also have a hot key. I have, mine is like a control B will like show like the bar underneath, um, a menu bar. Like your, your main thing, because you know, at this point, especially with the [01:00:00] notch, Like you definitely want to [01:00:01] Brett: just straight control B. [01:00:04] Christina: Yeah, [01:00:04] Brett: Oh, that’s, that’s a system-wide Emacs shortcut that I gotten big trouble for. I kept in, in envy ultra, we were trying to come up. We were running out of keyboard shortcuts. And we wanted one in, in envy alt you can use command J and command K to navigate up and down in the notes list. [01:00:26] Even when the editor is focused, um, where like your up and down arrow would just move around inside the note. So command J K, but those both already had other functions. So we were trying to, uh, come up with an alternative and we, we use control J and control K, but control K is, uh, it’s how you kill to end of line. [01:00:49] And so we accidentally overrode that and then I was like, well, okay. Even I use control K all the time. Uh, so we change it to control and in control P which is [01:01:00] next in previous, uh, the equivalent of up and down thinking no one actually uses. Control and in control P to navigate while they’re editing immediately heard from people who use control and control P so I currently don’t know what shortcut that’s going to end up being. [01:01:18] It should be something simple, but overriding control B if you never use it anywhere else, that’s fine for you. But I would never fly as a shortcut for, for an application. [01:01:32] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say I, um, I don’t use Emacs, so I don’t give a shit, But this [01:01:37] Brett: But like, so control a and control E [01:01:40] Christina: I have a bumper sticker that says that. [01:01:43] Brett: yeah. That you don’t use Emacs. [01:01:46] Christina: I don’t give a shit. [01:01:46] Brett: I don’t give a shit I’m like control and control. Every Mac user should know, like that’s beginning of line and end of line. Uh, and it’s better than command left, arrow and command right arrow for a couple of reasons. [01:02:00] Uh, because if a line wraps to multiple lines, But it’s technically one line control. [01:02:06] He will go to the actual end of line and not just the end of the line on the screen. And, uh, the, and they’re both accessible with just your left hand and it’s it’s, you should use those. I don’t care if you like Emacs or not. I hate EMX myself, but those, those shortcuts and control K to kill to end up lying. [01:02:27] It’s good stuff [01:02:31] I could evangelize for, for keyboard shortcuts. And then we could start talking about my key bindings and it could go, this could really go off the rails at this [01:02:39] Christina: I was going to say we have, well, I mean, we, we should just have a key bindings episode at some point. [01:02:43] Cause I, I would, I actually wouldn’t even be mad about that. Ooh, text expander, if they wanted to sponsor or keyword by search to like, if, if we wanted to get like a whole bunch of people together, we genuinely could have just like a special episode, just about keyboard shortcuts and key findings. [01:02:56] Brett: Th that would be really fun to put together. Uh, all the [01:03:00] sponsors, I’ll all the key we get. I know, I know carabiner is, uh, freeware tool, but we could give them a free sponsorship spot. [01:03:11] Christina: get them. We could give them the free spot. Absolutely. I’m actually, I’m not even, I mean, I’m, I’m shit posting, but I’m not like, this is actually not a bad idea. [01:03:17] Brett: Um, the other Mac tip I was going to offer is for anyone using , which is available on setup, uh, and also on iOS. But, um, there’s a presentation mode. You can take a big mind map and turn it into slides and the slides can animate so you can present your map and it can like expand and contract like child nodes and focus and hide other nodes. [01:03:45] And you can create like a step through of a map and it makes a really cool. Uh, alternative to, uh, like a PowerPoint deck and you can add call-outs and notes [01:04:00] and it’s, it’s super cool. And if you are an I thought user and you’ve never explored presentation mode, I would highly recommend checking it out. [01:04:09] It makes it makes great work presentation. Cause everyone’s sick of PowerPoint point, like, I mean, okay. For like Victor just did a PowerPoint presentation and use what’s it called Victor the suggest style. [01:04:24] Christina: Yeah. I got to say that’s it’s pretty damn good too. It, is actually, I was going to say that’s actually, I really liked that. [01:04:29] Brett: Yeah. It, and it looked great. Of course. I refuse to load up PowerPoint on my Mac mini. So I viewed it in keynote and keynote screwed up a bit of the formatting’s. [01:04:42] Christina: of course it did. [01:04:43] Brett: Like I, I looked at it, I went to the preview version and I saw what Victor intended it to be, and it looked great. But if you just need to present like the equivalent of a bullet list, but you want to make it look great. [01:04:57] A mind map presentation is, is [01:05:00] fantastic. [01:05:01] Christina: Yeah, totally. But if people are not opposed and I have to say, Like I prefer keynote, but I use PowerPoint a lot now for understandable reasons. And if you’re one of those people, a, it has some really good features. Like for instance, it has auto captioning. So if you’re presenting it will auto like use like AI to automatically add captions as you’re speaking. [01:05:21] So if you’re doing something [01:05:22] Brett: like speech to text. [01:05:24] Christina: exactly. W which is actually really great if you’re presenting on like a zoom meeting or a teams meeting or something, and you want to have captions and accessibility, you can do that. It’s really good. Or if you are doing a presentation to an audience that, you know, English is maybe not their first language, um, and, uh, and they help, it helps to, to read things. [01:05:43] Um, so it has things like that, but also the design ideas, I think it’s called like that feature, like is actually really good. Um, [01:05:52] Brett: exactly does that do? [01:05:53] Christina: It basically just has, sorry, you talked about it, Victor. Well, yeah, like, because I was honestly surprised and I was [01:06:00] like, this is one of those things that keynote should have. [01:06:03] It’s ridiculous that apple didn’t do that. I mean, it it’s anyway. Um, and, and so I, you know, you’ve got your normal thing where you’ve got like title and then you’ve got bullet points on one side and you’ve got your, your photograph here. Right. It took that, and it gave about eight or nine different remixes of that somewhere. [01:06:22] The image was the background and it put the bullets in the foreground and then, you know, but very like, really interesting variations. Now my presentation in Toto was disjointed because I didn’t stick with one stylistic theme that was on purpose anyway, uh, a stylistic choice, man. Um, but I was just super impressed by how well it was able to take the different graphic assets within certain parameters. [01:06:46] Like I also threw some curve balls at it and it was like, ah, okay, whatever. But, um, overall it’s really. Yeah. And, and you can even start with like a blank slide because I’m actually doing this right now as we’re talking and it’ll, it’ll literally, like, you can [01:07:00] just, it’ll continue to just kind of like create, you know, design ideas and you can either customize it or use it. [01:07:04] And some of them are really good. Some of them are, are, are better than others, but, um, if you have a whole bunch of different types, you know, it’ll help you kind of create things even in the same theme, if you want us to do that. So it’s, it’s actually like kinda hot. I’m not gonna lie. Like, it’s, it’s a good way, because for me, one of the, if you have like, uh, a set template that you’re always using for your presentations, that’s the one thing. [01:07:26] Um, and I’ve had to both create those and use those. And that can be frustrating, but sometimes if you’re just trying to start a presentation, like for me, one of the hardest things to do? [01:07:34] is like, okay, well, what theme do I want? And, you know, there are only so many that you can do, and this is a good way of having a, an easy way to kind of at least either come up with ideas or just use something. [01:07:43] If you’re really in a, you know, a hurry, you know, Many of them are not terrible looking. You’re like, okay, now I don’t have to bother through that entire theme process. Thanks to AI. [01:07:56] Brett: Did I ever tell you guys about text buddy? [01:07:59] Christina: [01:08:00] Um, I don’t think so. [01:08:00] Brett: This is another, we should definitely have text buddies sponsor our keyboard key bindings episode, [01:08:08] Christina: Oh, is this the one where you, where you can select stuff [01:08:10] Brett: Yeah, it works like a system service kind of, but it has all these built in transformations. So like, like if I have a comment in code and I want to wrap it to multiple lines, I can just select it, hit my shortcut type wrap and then hit return and it will wrap it respecting like comment markers, your hash signs and your double slashes and stuff. [01:08:33] And it has like, I think at least a hundred different transformations and you can write your own using JavaScript and it’s, what’s he charging for it? Uh, it’s Tyler it’s Tyler Hall. [01:08:47] Christina: Oh, I love Tyler [01:08:48] Brett: yeah. He’s he’s awesome. Let’s see, purchase text buddy. For it’s you, you, you can choose whether you pay $5 for the thanks. [01:08:57] So much license, $10 for the year, two [01:09:00] kind license or $20 for the holy moly license. One time purchase. Anywhere from five to 20 bucks. It’s it’s awesome. It’s really good at, [01:09:10] Christina: That’s awesome. Okay. I’m buying this now because I’m a huge, huge Tyler fan. [01:09:13] Brett: yeah, he would have given it to me for free, but I am a huge fan of Taylor and I was amazed at what this could do. So I paid, I don’t remember which level I chose, but I’m sure it was the year two kind or higher. What did I, I just paid for software. I really liked. And immediately was refunded. What was that? [01:09:34] Um, I don’t remember now. It was, it was software. I was happy to pay for it because I use it all the time and I know the developer and the developer just like sent my money back to me. Your money’s no good here. [01:09:47] Christina: That’s so funny. I get emails sometimes from people When, I buy things and they know me. They’re like, thank you so much. And I’m like, yeah, happy too. They’re like, that means a lot. Like, and I’m like, uh, [01:09:57] Brett: When, when people do that, I usually [01:10:00] offer to write them a quote, uh, you know, like, Hey, I [01:10:04] Christina: Oh, that’s a really good point. That’s a really, really. [01:10:06] Brett: a, if you need a quote for your homepage, just let me know. That’s, that’s something that me, with my huge 13,000 Twitter followers I can offer, you know, I can do that. Some guy with, with 13,000 Twitter followers said something nice about your product. [01:10:23] That’s what I can offer the world. That’s what I have. [01:10:26] Christina: That’s okay. Actually, I really like that. Cause I, I can, that’s actually real currency for a lot of people. Okay, cool. [01:10:33] Brett: so for you, what do you have a million followers now [01:10:36] Christina: I’m like a hundred thousand. Um, but, [01:10:38] Brett: or take. [01:10:39] Christina: but like, you know, but, but like, but you got like quality followers, right. So, you know, uh, like if you, if I was going for like a dedicated kind of thing, like, so don’t, don’t, don’t sell yourself short there, but um, [01:10:52] Brett: Those bought detectors. Say I have like 90% real followers. [01:10:56] Christina: Yeah, mine too. Which, which actually is impressive, but still, [01:11:00] uh, no, but, uh, That’s that’s uh, that’s awesome. [01:11:03] Okay. I’m buying, um, a text buddy right now. [01:11:07] Brett: Oh yeah. I’ll, I’ll send you a link. I have a couple, I have a small repository of my own. It actually, they won’t be a much UCU. I wrote a couple to help me with some objective C format, which nobody uses objective C [01:11:23] Christina: I was going to say, I was like, I don’t actually, but thank you. Like this is, this is a, this is funny. [01:11:28] Brett: I’m not entirely alone, but the world really has gone swift for. [01:11:32] Christina: I mean, honestly, we’ll look, it’s been what, seven years, like, you know, eight years, you know, so make sense. [01:11:40] Brett: That’s how slow I am. No, if I, if I make another Mac app from the ground up, I will do it in swift. [01:11:48] Christina: No, I mean, that’s the thing. Look, there’s still reasons to use objective C and I would have no way, like trying to pretend otherwise. Cause definitely like, uh, [01:11:55] Brett: the question is, is there a good reason not to use objective C and at this [01:12:00] point there to me is not a compelling reason not to use objective C. [01:12:05] Christina: That’s fair. I mean, I think the, the reason to use swift would be if you’re using like, like, like a swift UI, if you were doing some of the other stuff that you isn’t there. Right. So it, it depends on what you’re trying to do. [01:12:16] Brett: it does. Anyway. God, we’re we’re well over for a midweek episode that we were going to make like a 45 minute episode so that we can get ahead by a week. We really, we really, uh, we met our stretch goal on this one. [01:12:31] Christina: We didn’t get our stretch goal. I’m proud of us. [01:12:34] Brett: Thanks for being here, Victor, [01:12:36] Christina: Happy to, [01:12:37] Brett: we didn’t let Victor talk very much considering how long [01:12:40] Christina: very sorry. No, no, no, no, no. I see. Here’s the thing I’m pre editing for you. [01:12:48] Brett: Oh, I actually have a whole day to edit this episode. So maybe, maybe, maybe I’ll make it really refined. Maybe I’ll this pause right here. [01:13:00] I’ll edit that out. Okay. Anyway, [01:13:05] Christina: get kind of down to 45 or what you could use. You can just edit and just make it like all of Victor’s comments and then just like cut out us. Like that would be good [01:13:12] Brett: Uh, you guys get some sleep. [01:13:15] Christina: Get some sleep bread, get some fleet, Victor, [01:13:18] Brett: Say it Victor. [01:13:20] Christina: get some sleep. Both of you.

This episode ranges from Twitter anti-semitism to very expensive Adele tickets. You won’t believe #9. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED Uncommon Goods: find the right gift for the unique people on your list. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com/OVERTIRED. Uncommon Goods. We’re all out of the ordinary. Essential Protein from Ritual, our favorite multivitamin maker. Shake things up with a protein drink that will not only satisfy, it will even fill in nutrient gaps in your diet. Overtired listeners get 10% off their first 3 months. Head to ritual.com/OVERTIRED to shake up your ritual today. Show Links Slogger levels.fyi Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 266 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey there, you’re listening to overtired because you you’re an overtired fan. Maybe, maybe you will be soon. Anyway, I’m Brett Terpstra. I’m here as always with Christina Warren, Christina. [00:00:17] Christina: I’m doing okay. I’m doing okay. How are you doing bread? [00:00:19] Brett: We got our first real snow we had, we got a respectable six inches of snow hit. I don’t know if I like it once. Like, there’s that first in November I get like, super, like, I’m not ready for snow. I can’t handle it yet. Don’t let it happen. But then by December, I’m just like, yeah, bring it on. [00:00:40] Christina: Yeah, by December, you’re like do it. So that’s, that’s nice. So, um, So. [00:00:44] it’s like six inches. Yeah. [00:00:45] Brett: Yeah. And, and I had a choice this year. Like I can afford to buy a real snowblower now, like I’ve been using this shitty electric one for a couple of years. Um, and I can afford a good one, but we had the choice between buying a, you know, $500 [00:01:00] snowblower, or just setting up a snow removal service and not having to pay maintenance fees and not having to pay gas. [00:01:09] You know, just not having to worry about it. So, you know, me, I opted for the ladder and we got our driveway cleared for us this morning while we sat and sip coffee. And it was luxurious. [00:01:22] Christina: I mean, I personally feel like you did the right thing. Um, I’m always in [00:01:27] Brett: much the same in that way. [00:01:28] Christina: We are like, like I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m completely in favor of this. N, uh, pain, someone else to do it, plus not having to, I mean, you have a house, so like you could store the snowblower, but like, it’s not going to be there, like being unused. [00:01:42] And like you said, not having to do the maintenance and the other stuff and Yeah. I’m a big fan of that. [00:01:47] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. So, so it’s been a good morning. And so just full transparency. We’re recording on Saturday because I think, I think you agree with me that it’s just better to [00:02:00] record Saturday mornings. [00:02:01] Christina: It is. [00:02:02] Brett: It’s so much more relaxed and. Uh, so we’re going to record a couple of times this week and get ourselves ahead so we can still publish on Fridays, but enjoy recording on Saturdays. [00:02:13] I think I realize what the difference is for me on weekdays. I, I get up and I do my own coding before work starts, and I get into like, whatever project I’m working on and to get into that head space and then work starts, and I have to make that shift. And then to ask myself to make another transition, two hours later to record a weekday spot or like a weekday over tired. [00:02:40] My brain just doesn’t handle transitions well enough. Whereas like on a Saturday, I, I don’t get into coding projects in the morning. I have a nice relaxed morning. Watch some YouTube, drink some coffee, and I’m like, uh, there’s no major transition. I’m just ready to record. [00:02:57] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and I [00:03:00] like it too, because when we were, and I was fine doing it, but like, we would need to record it like 6:00 AM or 7:00 AM my time, which is, you know, [00:03:11] Brett: It’s way or w [00:03:12] Christina: way earlier. [00:03:13] Brett: I’m awake. I’m always awake at that time. Like in my, like in 6:00 AM central time, I’m always up, but I’m not conversational. [00:03:23] Christina: Yeah, that’s the thing. I’m usually a, I’m usually not up, and B if I am, which I should be, because then I am more productive, but that’s a whole other thing we’ve talked about that before, but I I’m ha I’m having to work on myself to get there, but even if I am, it’s one of those things where I’m like, okay, I’m not at that conversational. [00:03:41] part. [00:03:41] So it’s been this thing where I’ve been happy to do it. But ideally I would be awake for At least you know, 30, 45 minutes before we record. [00:03:51] Brett: I did. I did like two hours. I don’t even like being asked questions until I’ve been up for a couple hours. I just cannot handle [00:04:00] input at all. [00:04:02] Christina: Yeah, no. So I think that Saturdays are going to be better, but Yeah, but we’re going to be recording, um, uh, twice this week to get, get ahead of things. That also means that our show will be slightly less topical, but we’re not like a super topical like news show anyway. So I don’t [00:04:15] Brett: we’re not like 24 hour news. We don’t have to follow the stories that closely. If any, if at any point there is a topic in current events that is so that we have to have a hot take on. We can publish an extra, like a bonus episode here and there as needed. We’ll get on, we’ll talk it out for 15, 20 minutes and we’ll put out a bonus episode. [00:04:38] Sponsor free for just for our Patrion subscribers. If we had a Patriot, that would be true. [00:04:45] Christina: That is true. true. [00:04:47] Maybe we should let us know. [00:04:48] Brett: I have been, I have been, I have been approached several times in the last couple of weeks about both for overtired and for my own personal projects, setting up Patriots. I’ve just never [00:05:00] gotten around to looking into it. Like I’m a patriotic supporter of other people and maybe it’s not that big a deal, but. [00:05:07] Christina: Yeah. [00:05:08] Brett: I just haven’t ever, I haven’t never researched it. [00:05:11] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I’ve looked into it. [00:05:12] cause I wanted to do a newsletter. And so I’ve like looked at sub SAC. I’ve looked at review, have looked at rolling my own thing. Um, but yeah, so [00:05:22] Brett: did I ever tell you about the Marc newsletter snafu? So I make this app called mark it’s for writers and, uh, [00:05:32] Christina: it’s a good. [00:05:33] Brett: And I send out a newsletter, uh, irregularly and. Uh, writing app, I tend to be very careful about my grammar, spelling, punctuation in those newsletters. And then one time I made some last minute edits didn’t reread what I was sending his send. [00:05:53] I’ve got a mailing list of about 8,000 people and didn’t realize until it had finished [00:06:00] sending the. To not one, but two agregious grammatical errors in the newsletter. So I immediately wrote an apology newsletter and sent it out and I was just like, Hey, I’m sorry. I should have run my own newsletter through the app that it’s about and caught these errors. [00:06:21] And, and I have never gotten a warm. I haven’t never gotten as much response or a warmer response. Then I did two publicly admitting my mistake. I got so many emails. Hey, don’t worry about it. It’s great to hear from you. Like I love these newsletters and it was, it was heartwarming. [00:06:40] Christina: That’s actually, that’s really lovely. I thought that was going to go in like a very different place. I was like, oh no. [00:06:46] Brett: cause it’s not only writers. It’s also nerds. So you, you would expect. [00:06:50] Christina: Well, no, cause I was expecting, it was like, how dare you send me so many emails? Not so that’s, that’s where I was expecting this to go partially because the internet has broken me this week. [00:07:00] But, uh, also, um, I just, uh, yeah, um, that’s that makes me very happy. I’m very glad to hear about that. [00:07:07] Brett: So how is the let’s do a quick sponsor break and then talk about the internet breaking Christina. [00:07:12] Sponsor: ZocDoc [00:07:12] Christina: Yes, let’s do a quick sponsor break. So this episode is brought to you by Zocdoc. Has this ever happened to you? You need to see a doctor you search and find one that looks good. You wait on hold for an appointment. You rearrange your schedule. And then when you finally go in, you find out that the doctor doesn’t even take your insurance, but there is a solution. [00:07:34] So you can just download the free Zoc doc app, the easiest way to find a great doctor. Instantly book an appointment with doc doc. You can search for local doctors who take your insurance. Very key read verified patient reviews, and you can book an appointment in person or over video chat. So you never have to wait on hold with the receptionist ever again. [00:07:54] So go to doc, doc.com/overtired and download the Zoc doc app to sign up for [00:08:00] free every month. Millions of people you use doc, doc, and I’m one of them. Um, I have been using doc doc. Over a decade at this point. It’s great. It’s definitely my go-to app. Whenever I need to see a doctor, again, one of the main reasons I like it is that I can find out do they take my insurance, which is an important thing to know. [00:08:18] So Zoc doc makes healthcare easy. Now is the time to prioritize your health. Good as doc doc.com/overtired and download the doc doc app to sign up for free and book a top rate. A doctor many are available as soon as today. That’s Z O C D O. Dot com slash overtired. [00:08:38] Twitter mobs, attack [00:08:38] Brett: I have some notes. You had like a real fresh air quality to your read today. [00:08:44] Christina: Oh, thank you. [00:08:45] Brett: Yeah, I, and, and I wrote in the word God into the sponsor read and you acted it out. You did an actual exasperated side. [00:08:54] Christina: I tried, [00:08:55] Brett: That’s quality. That’s quality entertainment folks. [00:08:58] Christina: This is what happens when I’m up like many, [00:09:00] many hours before. [00:09:02] Brett: So, so the internet has not been kind to you lately. What’s going on. [00:09:06] Christina: Um, no. So, um, [00:09:13] there’s a local election that took place in Seattle, uh, this week. Um, there was already a, uh, an election for city council, uh, for, for a couple of people and, um, for, um, because certain districts go up at different times and for mayor. That was in November, but there was a recall election to recall a council woman on the Seattle city. That did get enough. Um, I guess like, like votes or, or signatures or whatever to appear on a ballot, but they weren’t, it didn’t appear on the November ballot. So they had a special election this week and the, the council women that they, um, wanted to recall. [00:09:52] Uh, it happens to be my council woman. So the, I live in, I live in her district and, um, the council woman is a woman whose [00:10:00] name is, um, so Shama. She is, um, I would say controversial is a completely like objective way to put it. She is a, she’s a self avowed, Marxist, and Trotskyists, she is not, she is part of the, her own organization called socialist alternative. [00:10:21] She thinks that people like AOC are sellouts and have gone too far to the. And, um, I’m not a fan of hers to be completely honest. I, I, I, some of her, the things that she purports to fight for and agree with are great. In theory, I personally think she’s kind of an egotist and in grand stander and in the four years that I have lived here, I haven’t actually seen any positive impact on her being my city council person. [00:10:47] And I’m just, I’m not a fan. But the thing is, is that this election was getting out-sized public attention because it was a recall election and the boats were going to come in and we didn’t know [00:11:00] which way it was going to go. We still actually don’t know it hasn’t been certified yet. It looks like she might’ve survived by maybe 50 votes. [00:11:07] Um, I mean, that’s how close it was, but I sent out a tweet thread after voting after the polls. on. [00:11:14] Tuesday, basically trying to be instructive for national media outlets, who would write about this, because I didn’t want there to be this gigantic story about how this, this, you know, like, uh, left. She is the most left wing politician, I think, in the United States at this point, like she’s absolutely the furthest to the left. [00:11:34] Um, and, uh, I didn’t want this to be like this rush of articles, talking about how Seattle is becoming like more conservative. Because that’s not true. Uh, even if she would have been voted out, it wouldn’t be Republicans and like people who are like, you know, like, you know, make, uh, people who are getting her out. [00:11:54] Like the people who live in her district, like overwhelmingly are not, they’re just people [00:12:00] who like, for me personally, I’ve gotten tired of her bullshit and people who would like to have a member of the city council who can actually work with the rest of the city council and get things done and not just, you know, scream and yell. [00:12:11] Anyway, I made a comment about that. That basically I was trying to do a thread to basically just try to inform, I didn’t want a bunch of articles coming out saying that that wasn’t true. I made an offhanded comment, which I shouldn’t have made, but it made an offhanded comment in the thread that, you know, she’s not part of DSA, cause she’s not, uh, she, uh, has some sort of alignments with DSA, but she is not part of DSA. [00:12:32] Um, and, and I said that that many people in DSA she’s, she’s too far left, even she’s too extreme, even for them, including my. Well, DSA did. I did not like that. DSA is the democratic socialists of America. Um, it’s a national organization and they have local chapters and, uh, it, I, where they land on things is very much kind of a locally driven thing, which, uh, I [00:13:00] guess I should have considered more before I, I tweeted that, but again, I wasn’t going for a local audience. [00:13:04] I was going for a more national audience anyway. The, uh, the socialists came after me pretty hardcore and, uh, I’m PSYOPs I’m, uh, uh, I sh I should be like, uh, um, excavated from the city. I’m scum. I’m apparently Jewish, which is a bad thing because I got sent lots of antisemitic memes and stuff, which fun. Um, they, uh, uh, you know, like DSA Seattle DSA tried to dox me, which was super fun. [00:13:37] Um, and, and try to lie and say that, like, I’m not a member of the organization. Well, apparently I guess the roles haven’t been updated, but I checked and like I was charged $175 a couple of months ago. So I paid ESA. Don’t really know if I’m updated on their roles or not. Cause you can’t manage your account through their freaking website. [00:13:57] So that’s not really my concern to be completely [00:14:00] candid. I don’t really care. Um, but, but they tried to like, make it look like I was a liar and I’m not, I don’t, they’re like, well, you didn’t technically violate our terms of conduct or code of conduct, but this and that, I’m like, no, I didn’t violate your terms of conduct because I never said I was speaking for the organization ever. [00:14:15] I, I made it very clear in all of my tweets that it was my opinion and my criticism of her was pretty mild considering. [00:14:25] Brett: Yeah, it seems like an outsized response. [00:14:27] Christina: Uh, I think so, but the net result has been, I haven’t been able to use Twitter in five days. [00:14:33] Brett: Oh, this explains I was looking at your stars and there were a couple of links to re uh, get up repositories that were for deleting Twitter history and deleting your entire account. [00:14:45] Christina: Yup. Yup. So, so what I’m going to do is after this calms down, Because then again, people were starting to go through my old tweets and they do the same shit that the, the, the Nazis did when, when they were talking to me four years ago, it’s the exact same [00:15:00] fucking stuff. And so, or three years ago, or whenever it was, they, they try to find anything they can to try to play gotcha. [00:15:06] Stuff. I was apparently all over Reddit and all over there hangs cause I was getting texts and all kinds of stuff from people like wishing me well, and I’m like, I’m just not responding to it. So I’m just going to delete, I’ve been on Twitter for, for 14. I’m just deleting my, my tweets. I’m just not dealing with it. [00:15:21] Like I’m not going off of Twitter, but I’m not going to give like bad faith actors, like a reason to take stuff out of context or, or to send me like massive levels of harassment. I’m just not doing it. [00:15:34] Brett: Is there any, any value to having. Uh, archival tweets, like, is there, has it ever served anyone well to have someone go back in time and say, well, you tweeted this four years ago. [00:15:47] Christina: No, honestly, probably not. And I personally have held off doing it all these years because I don’t like to break links and, and, and, and I, and I, I don’t like, I don’t like to do that, but at this point, [00:16:00] I mean, like my, my friend sent me a text while I was going through this. She was like, well, UVA, she was like the, the, the Nazi sick for math for you. [00:16:07] And now DSA is like, it’s the full spectrum. I was like, yeah, that’s true. [00:16:11] Brett: From right to left. [00:16:15] Christina: I have to say the Nazis are maybe meaner, but they lose interest more quickly. Um, but no, but they ha they both hate Jews a whole lot. At least these two groups of people, which. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Both groups completely. Like if you support someone, that’s fine. It looks like she survived. The recall that’s mine, that’s democracy, but I don’t have to agree with her and me not agreeing with an extremely polarizing politician does not mean that I’m somehow like a conservative, like that’s a ridiculous statement. [00:16:50] Like many people, if they looked at her policies and they looked at the things that she stands for and wants to do and seeing how far she goes would be. Yeah, no [00:17:00] dude, like I actually want stuff to get done, you know, like, like again, I had people who were telling me you’re a sell out just like AOC and I’m like, okay, if this is where we are, I can’t have like a conversation with you. [00:17:15] Brett: Are you ready for what may be my best segue ever? [00:17:19] Christina: Yes, please. [00:17:20] Brett: You know what Nazis in the DSA have in common, [00:17:24] Christina: What’s that? [00:17:25] Brett: they can both be hard to buy gifts for. [00:17:29] Christina: That’s actually. [00:17:31] Sponsor: Uncommon Goods [00:17:31] Brett: If you haven’t finished your holiday shopping yet don’t panic. We’ve got a secret source for incredible original gifts and that’s uncommon goods, uncommon goods.com has the absolute best gifts for everyone in your life. We’re talking moms, dads, teens, in-laws besties your one and only, and it’s not just stuff you can find anywhere. [00:17:50] And uncommon goods has unique and creative gifts often handmade by independent artists and makers. So skip the gifts that scream last minute and find [00:18:00] something truly original, that uncommon goods.com. I personally love coffee contraptions, and I’ve found all kinds of new ones on their site. I even ordered a vacuum powered cold press that I’ve added to my lineup of coffee, making gadgets. [00:18:13] There’s something there for everyone, no matter what they’re into, uh, uncommon goods looks for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade or maiden. They have the most meaningful out of the ordinary gifts anywhere. Uncommon goods also offers uncommon experiences. Choose from live online classes in mixologist, cooking flower, arranging embroidery, and more from henpecked artists and experts. [00:18:40] And with every purchase you make it uncommon goods. They give back $1 to a nonprofit partner of yours. They’ve donated more than $2.5 million to date to get 15% off your next gift. Go to uncommon goods.com/overtired that’s uncommon [00:19:00] goods.com/overtired for 15% off. Don’t miss out on this limited time offer uncommon goods were all out of the ordinary man. [00:19:08] Job title fuckery [00:19:08] Brett: We’re just knocking off the sponsor reads today. [00:19:11] Christina: I know, I love it. I love it. So. Um, okay, so we’re talking about deleting my sweets and then I see the next thing that’s kind of on our list here is should I resurrect Slugger by you? Which actually that’s Slugger was like your, your app that like monitored all of your social activity and everything you did, and like put it into a digest. [00:19:29] Brett: right. It was a plug-in base. Uh, command line tool that you would schedule. And once a day, it would go out and get like your blog posts, your Twitter posts, your, your like, uh, activity trackers, uh, your good reads reviews. And it would just collect everything that you had posted on social media that day and create like, uh, day one entries. [00:19:52] Uh, it could also store like just marked down files, but. I kind of, [00:20:00] I got out of the habit of using day one, so I stopped keeping it up and it just kind of fell into disrepair because, you know, it’s, it has to deal with like 20 different API APIs. And every time an API changes, it means Slugger breaks in some way. [00:20:15] And it’s a lot to keep up, but I’ve been kind of missing it lately. [00:20:20] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think that if there were a way. That you could somehow, I guess, like keep up the API process, then, then that would be ideal. And cause, cause some of the, tools just like they don’t even have APIs anymore and some of them have gotten better. Like Twitter’s API is actually a lot better now than it, than it was when you were doing Slugger, I think. [00:20:38] Um, but it’s not as good as it was like before they killed RSS and uh, [00:20:46] Brett: with OAuth. Uh, there were a couple of plugins for Slugger that had already conquered the OAuth, uh, authentication process. But these days, like every plugin you’d have to have, you’d have to do a [00:21:00] token. Yeah. [00:21:03] Christina: Which, which, I mean, I think the thing is I look at it this way. I think that if you want to try and maybe revive it for yourself first and see how far you get and if you can make it work for you. That’s great. I think that the challenge that might even be bigger than keeping up with the, um, um, like API stuff would be, if you were trying to support it in any way. [00:21:24] So I would, I know that you host most of your stuff yourself, but like, that would be one that I would definitely put on GitHub and I would like let other people [00:21:30] Brett: Yeah. Well, the previous version is out on GitHub, uh, and it got a couple of contributors. Uh, I think partly it was an early attempt of mine at like a larger scale Ruby application. And I didn’t do a great job with the plugin architecture and I think it just was difficult for people to, to write their own plugins or to maintain what was there. [00:21:57] I think I could do a lot better job now. [00:22:00] [00:22:00] Christina: I bet. I mean, that’d be interesting. I mean, I, [00:22:03] Brett: so much Ruby, just this last year. I’ve been like, I started using Ruby when I wanted to write text mate extensions. Like that’s why I learned Ruby. And for 20 years, I really haven’t gotten much better at Ruby, but this year, man, a lot of stuff clicked for me. [00:22:19] I learned a lot. [00:22:21] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:22:22] Brett: Yeah. I, uh, I, I, so we had that reorg at work. And, uh, in the process are, are, are what’s what do you call it? The org chart got flattened a little bit, and that meant more responsibility for each of us in different ways. I went to my PM and I was like, and I, and I really, I didn’t want to alienate any coworkers. I was just noticing that I had these increased responsibilities and I was being, uh, like they were bringing questions about content decisions to me that would have formerly gone to my manager. [00:23:00] And I said, you know, that’s all fine, but I would like a job title to reflect. [00:23:06] That increased responsibility. You just advocating for myself. Uh, so it didn’t come with a pay bump, but they a hundred percent agreed that I think they’re going to go with like principal rather than senior. [00:23:20] Christina: Oh shit. Well, then you should be definitely getting a paper. [00:23:25] Brett: Well, they said it would be noted in the next review, which is fine. The weird thing is when they looked at the job tickets for all three of us writers were already all level four out of. Five four hour position in the org chart. So we’re technically all already principles, which is just the way the job tickets were written apparently, or like the job descriptions. [00:23:52] I don’t feel, I don’t understand how any of this stuff works. All I know is I got my job title and hopefully someday it’ll it’ll mean a pay bump, but [00:24:00] in the meantime, I really hope I haven’t alienated any coworkers by advocating for myself. [00:24:06] Christina: I don’t think so. I mean, if anything, I hope that maybe if there are some of them that like, are feeling the same thing, that they will take the, um, [00:24:13] Brett: Initiative. [00:24:14] Christina: initiative and, and go for it. And obviously it’s easier for you as like, White dude, to do it. Um, you know, but, but I would hope that like, I mean, it’s, it’s like there’s a website called levels.fyi, which is actually really useful for anybody who works in tech because it compares salaries as well as levels at different companies. [00:24:34] So you can see if I’m a level, this at Microsoft, that’s what it would translate at Oracle. And you can also see people like submit their salaries. And it’s anonymously and they kind of put them in aggregate and you can see a list of what people are making and how many years of experience they have and other stuff. [00:24:49] And that’s really useful information when it comes to advocating for your own promo and for, for other things. [00:24:57] Brett: Oh, yeah. There’s all these I’m looking at this [00:25:00] site. Huh? All right. I have to go like Oracle has. Uh, aria and you can like look up and see exactly what everyone’s position. You can’t see salaries, but you can see everyone’s position in the org chart. And I should, I should learn this shit. I don’t, I don’t understand how any of this works. [00:25:21] Christina: I mean, they, they purposely make it up to, you know, to do, but, but it seems like if you were leveled the right way, you just didn’t have the right title, then maybe that’s one thing. But if they’re at least going to give you the right title, like that, that seems like really solid. [00:25:35] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, no, I’m, I’m, I’m happy. I, I, I make enough money to be perfectly content as it is. Like, I’m not opposed to making more money, but like, I don’t find myself in desperate need of a, a pay bump right now. Yeah. Yeah. I’m super happy. Like this is the happiest I’ve been in a long time. I enjoy [00:26:00] my job. I enjoy, I enjoy the problem solving. [00:26:02] We came up with it. All new plans for how we’re going to make our jobs more fun. And the, and the managers were all on board and now I’m being recognized for increased responsibility. And I don’t know what more I could ask for it’s. This is pretty, pretty slick. [00:26:18] Christina: Yeah. that’s great. Very, very happy for you. So, um, but, uh, so, so things seem like they’re going well, like two weeks in or whatever we are and to enter the. [00:26:28] Brett: Yeah, Yeah, I think it’s, I think there are still some, some things left to shake themselves out, uh, to see where everybody lands. It is a little. Weird to me, how quickly a lot of the upper management of my team was willing to switch to other divisions. Um, like I don’t, I don’t know any of the details of that, but these were people that were very invested in the mission statement of our team [00:27:00] that we all live in a period of a few days. [00:27:04] I’ll jump ship, which is, I don’t know, leaves me, leaves me wondering about motivations and loyalties, I guess, but. [00:27:14] Christina: Yeah, I mean there and there could also just be, it depends on how long people have been in a certain role and if they want to try something else, you know, I mean, there, there are lots of reasons why people leave that aren’t always about like, it’s a bad place or something, you know, sometimes it is a sign like everybody’s going and you’re like, okay, maybe I should pay attention to that. [00:27:31] But sometimes it might just be, you know, people have been at something for a long time and, uh, want to go someplace else. [00:27:38] Brett: Yeah, well, maybe, I don’t know if someone, if someone were to say, Hey, We think you’re doing great work where you’re at, but we have this new team that’s going to be doing X, Y, Z. And we think you’d be great for it, especially if it was within the same company. And I wasn’t like leaving behind a company that I had [00:28:00] developed any loyalty toward. [00:28:02] I think I would be open to switching teams. Like [00:28:05] Christina: Oh, yeah. [00:28:06] Brett: that’s not, I don’t feel like that’s a huge, like stabbing anyone in the back or anything. [00:28:10] Christina: Oh, no, not at all. Not at all. I mean, I did it famously. Incredibly quickly, um, uh, far more quickly than they recommend, but in my case, it, I was hired to the wrong org to begin with. Um, I had the most amazing manager though, who really made me feel better about it, but I was so nervous when I told him, um, because I, you know, he’d been so kind to me and I, I felt bad, but, um, he just, the first words out of his mouth were congratulations. [00:28:37] Cause he was just a great manager. Great person. I couldn’t have asked for a better manager when I joined Microsoft than, than Luke, but Yeah. [00:28:43] I think if you can find like what somebody told me, I’ll say this to anybody who’s listening, who’s in any sort of job thing. Somebody who I’d met at Microsoft, who, um, he actually listened to, um, to this week in tech and reached out to me when I joined and we had lunch a few times and he made a comment to me when I was telling him [00:29:00] about whether, what I wanted to, you know, take the informational to switch teams or not. [00:29:04] And he said, well, do you think that you would. Provide more value to the company in this new role. And I said, yes. And he said, well then there you go. And when he put it in that perspective, that lake changed it. And so I think that that’s real. It goes like if you think of there’s some other place where you might be able to offer more value, I feel like that’s like a great reason to go to. [00:29:27] Brett: Makes sense to me. Um, um, man, I had a, uh, I had one more segue in my head. I’ve I lost it. Well, we’ll wait until I come up with a better one. Um, let’s see, where are we in our, in our little bullet list. So potential topics. Did you upgrade your main machine to Monterey yet? [00:29:49] To upgrade or not to upgrade? [00:29:49] Christina: Yeah, because. [00:29:51] Brett: Oh, right. Cause you just got a new computer. [00:29:53] Christina: Right. So, yeah, I have, but, um, I’m having like all kinds of crashes, [00:30:00] like on mail.app and stuff like it’s. I think that from what everything I’ve read, it seems to be like people’s upgrades are going better than they went from. You know, but, Um, cause I still have some older machines like I have, well, I guess my iMac, I guess it’s a Monterey now, but I had like, um, I still have like my 2017 MacBook pro that thing is still in Catalina. [00:30:20] I haven’t even put fixer on that. I won’t. [00:30:22] Brett: my, I upgraded my Intel MacBook pro to Monterrey while it was still in beta, just because that’s what I was testing software on. Um, I have not upgraded my, my M one mini yet. I just got updates to, uh, audio hijack and sound source that said they had full Monterey compatibility, which is one of the things I was waiting for. [00:30:49] Um, on my laptop, I haven’t had any, any issues. I actually forget that I upgraded it at points. [00:30:57] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s very similar, um, [00:31:00] from, you know, from, from most of the things I’ve seen, the only weird issue that I have, and this is a weird one is, and it’s apparently cause, um, um, uh, Soren looked at the logs. Apparently there is some sort of issue with HTTP three and mail.app because my mail app will crash. [00:31:17] Like every, like if it’s just running in the background, it will crash like every 10 minutes. [00:31:23] Brett: There’s an HTTP three. [00:31:26] Christina: Yeah. Apparently. [00:31:27] Brett: Um, man, I am out of it, whole new protocol and I didn’t even know it existed. Okay. [00:31:35] Christina: I mean, I didn’t either. And that surprised me, but apparently like it’s, it’s, um, it’s supported by a lot of things and it’s. Guests like the, so the mail servers versus accounts I use upgraded to it or something. And that’s anyway, where it looks like the crashes. I’m not the only one somebody else on their forums had the exact same issue, but no response happened. [00:31:57] So obviously I filed radars, but you know, [00:32:00] like it’s not as if anyone reads those. So, um, [00:32:03] Brett: I keep getting requests from bunch users to support focus modes, because bunch can toggle do not disturb, but it doesn’t do any of the fancy new focus mode stuff. I don’t even know if it’s possible yet. [00:32:17] Christina: Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know if they have those open Ford focus. Modes are cool. Here’s my issue with focus modes and I can’t figure out a way to turn this on or off they go on or off for all of your devices. So if I have focus mode, I’m on my Mac, then it is also on my iPad and on my phone, I did not want that [00:32:35] Brett: Okay. [00:32:36] Christina: because sometimes I would like my phone to still have stuff come through. [00:32:42] Brett: No, that makes sense. I can think of a lot of times I would want. [00:32:45] Christina: And, and some, maybe the inverse of the shoot. Maybe I want. [00:32:47] my phone on site, you know, maybe I want my phone not to have anything, but I still want things to come through my Mac. That would be less common, but the inverse is definitely the case. Whereas like sometimes like, no, I want to be able to get alerts and stuff on my phone. [00:32:58] Like. Like [00:33:00] messages come through and stuff. Um, or, or phone calls rang, you know, like it just that if there is a way to be able to set it selectively, I haven’t found it. But that whole thing to complete, like has made me not use focus mode because I’m like, okay, well all or nothing. We’ve had multiple devices. [00:33:20] And if you are potentially now not going to be able to get alerts on stuff where you might need it, that that’s a no go for. [00:33:28] Brett: Yeah, I haven’t played with it at all. I ha I don’t, I can’t think of a time when I need selective notifications like that. I either want it all on or all off. [00:33:42] Christina: Yeah, well, again, like for me, I might be able to, I might want to turn it off. [00:33:46] on my computer, but I still want it on my phone. [00:33:49] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I’ll figure it out. Just, just to be clear, toggling do not disturb via a Mac application is 100% not [00:34:00] a public API. You have to, you have to read and write nested Pilates. Data blobs and then reboot the processes that watch for changes in do not disturb status. Like it is a very hacky thing to do to begin with. [00:34:21] And unless they’ve opened up API APIs, I just don’t see hacking any deeper into the pea list into the nested P list just to make focus modes work. [00:34:33] Christina: Oh, Update. I did Look into this. This was not here. Last time I looked at it, but there is an option at least on the macro west side to share across devices. When you go into different focus modes, which I turned off, which means now I can turn it on, on my Mac and it won’t be turned off on my phone. [00:34:49] Brett: Look at that real time updates to over-tired episodes like corrections live inline [00:34:55] Christina: So, yes. So listeners that is in fact a feature. It might have always been there. Maybe I [00:35:00] didn’t see it before, but I swear to you, I could not find it in iOS 15 when I first looked and it was on like seemingly by default. So, um, yes, you can turn that off. that’s. [00:35:10] very important. Cool. [00:35:12] Brett: Cool. Speaking of proper nutrition, that one didn’t work. Um, so ritual ritual, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I can do. [00:35:24] Christina: Yeah. [00:35:24] Brett: I can do this. [00:35:26] Sponsor: Ritual Protein [00:35:26] Brett: Protein powders can feel intimidating with all the, no pain, no gain stuff associated with them. But the truth is that deep down like cellular level deep, we all need protein. [00:35:36] And it’s about more than just muscles. So rituals team of scientists, re-imagined protein from the ground up and from the inside, out from how it’s made to who it’s for the result is that delicious pant. Based protein offered in three premium formulations for distinct life stages and unique nutrient needs all made with the same high standards approach and commitment to traceability that ritual is known for [00:36:00] whether you’re doing reps or you’re more into dog walks. [00:36:02] Ritual is introducing essential protein here to shake things up. I haven’t had as much time as. 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In terms of standards, rituals, peas are sustainably grown and regenerativity farmed in the U S like all ritual products. Essential protein is soy-free gluten-free and formulated with non GMO ingredients. [00:37:14] So why not shake up your brain? To make trying something new, less scary ritual offers a money back guarantee. If you’re not 100% in love. Plus our listeners get 10% off for their first three months. Just visit ritual.com/overtired to add essential protein today. That’s ritual.com/over tired man. [00:37:38] The day the music died [00:37:38] Brett: We’ve got three, three sponsor reads in our listeners, man. [00:37:43] Lucky, lucky them. Lucky them [00:37:47] Christina: So, So I see on this thing that you’ve apparently stopped listening to music. Did you finally get your Spotify like unwrapped or something? [00:37:54] Brett: I didn’t even bother because something happened at some point early in [00:38:00] 2021. I just, I started listening to audio books. I never opened Spotify. I never opened apple music. I just haven’t. If I’ve listened to music, it’s been an accident. Like my, I turned my car on and it started playing like the A’s from apple music instead of my audio book. [00:38:21] And I’ll let it go for a little while, but I just, haven’t been interested in music and I don’t know what’s going on. [00:38:28] Christina: Interesting [00:38:29] Brett: Yeah. It’s really weird for me. Cause like I have. [00:38:32] Christina: because you’re used to shun. [00:38:33] Brett: Music has been very important to me my whole life. Like a lot of my identity is wrapped up in what music I like and, and what I know about music. [00:38:44] And I just, I don’t have any inclination lately to listen to a song. [00:38:52] Christina: That is, that is that’s interesting. And the kind of little, I don’t know that if I were, I’m not trying to freak you out, I would be a little freaked out by [00:39:00] that. [00:39:00] Brett: I I’m concerned. I I’m not freaked out. I I’m, I’m slightly concerned. I think I figured it will come back when it first snowed when we got our, like we had a, an inch last week to, uh, once there was snow on the ground, I did find myself. Like, especially when I drive in the snow, I love like speed metal. I like a hard, fast, cold music when I’m driving. [00:39:27] And that inclination did come back to me. And I did listen ex I went with the exploited, um, not I wouldn’t punk rock and set of speed metal, but the exploited is hard and fast stuff. So I did, I. I was relieved to have at least that inclination come up. [00:39:47] Christina: I’m very glad to hear that. So that’s an interesting segue. Um, so I’m sure you did not follow any of this cause I’m, I’m sure you don’t care, but Adele tickets went on sale this week. Alleging. [00:39:59] Brett: [00:40:00] Oh, [00:40:00] Christina: Um, meaning. So, so Adele is doing a Vegas residency over a weekend. She’s doing, I think it’s 24 shows, but she it’s going to be from, from the end of January through like the end of April or something at Caesar’s palace at the Coliseum. [00:40:15] And, um, she, uh, So there are only going to be, you know, kind of, you know, not, not, not a ton of shows. It’s not like, you know, like, like sling beyond when she was doing it. I think she, I don’t know if she was playing every night or if she was doing, you know, like, like multiple nights a week, but she, you know, she, her residency was like years and like Brittany’s residency was years and, um, Adele’s is, is for now. [00:40:39] Anyway, it’s only a theater. And so Ticketmaster had this whole verified fan thing, which they’ve done for other artists before. And I’ve used other artists before where the idea is you register with your account and then you’re in some sort of lottery. And then if you are chosen, you are given The opportunity to then [00:41:00] like wait in a queue and then buy tickets when they become available. [00:41:03] Brett: to wait Nike. I understand. Yes. It just sounded funny. [00:41:07] Christina: Exactly. Well, but the thing is, is that there’s no like general pre-sales. So it was, it’s only, it’s like a legendary, a smaller group of people going up for it. Well, I signed up grant signed up. I had friends who signed up. We were all wait-listed. Um, one person that I know online did get, um, uh, uh, Um, but first that the tickets were supposed to go on sale on, I think it was Tuesday. [00:41:32] Um, and, uh, uh, AWS went down and took a second master down with it. So they had to reschedule the presale for some of the shows for the next day. And, um, you know, my friend who had access because I told him, I was like, if you get in. I will pay whatever the price is because you could buy up to four tickets. [00:41:52] I was like, I will pay whatever. Um, just, just, if you could get two extras and even though you waited in line all the way to the end, the thing reset, and [00:42:00] he was never able to get tickets. So I’m now in this thing, cause I wanted to take my mom. I took my mom to see a Dell five years ago, um, in Atlanta. Um, I actually had bought the tickets a year in advance. [00:42:10] Um, I couldn’t get us tickets at Madison square garden, but I was able to. In Atlanta and I got us good seats and we went in and she loved it. And my mom’s never been to Vegas and I wanted to take her. Um, and, and it’ll be, you know, her 75th birthday in August, the concert would be before then. I really wanted to, to do this. [00:42:27] And I I joked earlier in turns out I was way off. I was like, I’m going to wind up paying a thousand dollars a ticket. Our and I, yeah, I wish that I’d paid a thousand dollars a ticket. Um, I don’t know if I should share how much I paid because. The prices are insane. I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. [00:42:47] They won’t last that the ones that are going for $30,000 a piece, there’s no way they will ever get that much money for them. I can’t tell if I paid too much or not, but regardless I did get us [00:43:00] tickets. [00:43:00] Brett: I can tell you. [00:43:01] Christina: I mean, you’re going to say I did, but I mean like this. [00:43:05] Brett: Even if you paid a thousand dollars, you paid too much. [00:43:09] Christina: Sure, but like, it’s, it’s an experience thing is for my mom, like, you know, it’s a different [00:43:15] Brett: blame this on your mom. [00:43:16] Christina: I’m not blaming it on my mom. [00:43:17] Uh, she, she, I don’t ever want her to know how much I spent on the tickets, um, because she would be very upset with me. Um, but I had like a, I had like a number I wish the seats were better. [00:43:30] The thing is, is that the, the price to get the better seats was so much more. I just, even if I had like, and I have the money, but it’s like one of those things I’m like, that would be dumb regardless. I will be taking my mom to Vegas in March. And I’m, I’m very excited, but I’m also like, I’m so mad. Like it seems like everything like inflation, like supply chain, everything is just ridiculous. [00:43:57] And I’m like, I’m so mad that [00:44:00] like the whole point of this verified fan program was supposed to be, so fans could get tickets. And not resellers and scalpers. And yet it seems like every single person who got them just immediately went to flip them for a whole bunch of money, which like. I get, but I also don’t get, like, to me, here’s the thing. [00:44:18] If you were just going to do that, then just make it a free for all, for everyone, at least give us all a shot to get in. Cause I was going to have to pay it. I had to pay a scalper anyway. You know what I mean? Like the only, only pseudo advantage I see here is now allegedly fans are the ones who get to scalp more than like the, the traditional scalper bot people. Ticketmaster, you could solve this bot problem if you wanted to, but they don’t care. They have, um, the only, only person ironically, that sort of losing in this is Ticketmaster has a third party, um, sales site that they do, you know, where they’ll sell, like, like, you know, overpriced tickets for stuff. [00:44:54] They aren’t selling them for the Adele show. But so I had to go to StubHub and get them, and, and [00:45:00] then there were like some other things, but like Ticketmaster, you can’t get them, you know, from, from, from their platform. Um, it’s just, uh, it’s ridiculous. Um, if I still worked it, you know, as a journalist, I might’ve been able to score comp seats, but, uh, I, I, wasn’t willing to take a chance on anything for that this time. [00:45:19] So. It’s very expensive concert seats. Aren’t even great. I mean, they’re fine, but like they’re not as good as I would like them to be for what I’m paying. Um, [00:45:32] Brett: I hope I hope you and your mother have a wonderful time. [00:45:34] Christina: Well, see, I was going to say that this is what I’m excited about though. And I w I going to talk more about this as we get closer to it, I’ve just decided to go all out. I’ve spent this much on tickets. I’m just like, okay, we’re going to say at a really nice hotel, I’m going to take her to see, um, uh, the Beatles Cirque du Soleil show. [00:45:50] I’m going to take her, you know, there’s nice dinners and stuff. And we’re just going to like, have like a baller, like birthday, you know, celebration weekend for my mom, like [00:46:00] six months earlier. [00:46:02] Brett: There goes your retirement. [00:46:03] Christina: I mean, basically. Yeah, well, uh, well, okay. In fairness, Microsoft stock is doing incredibly well, so, you know, [00:46:11] Brett: Fair enough. I increased my, my 401k savings to 15% this week. [00:46:17] Christina: oh, hell Yeah. [00:46:19] Brett: Yeah. [00:46:20] Christina: That’s great. [00:46:22] Brett: I got an email that said you should be saving 15%. So I said, okay, whatever. Um, anyway, we should save some for the next episode that we’re going to record in a few. [00:46:33] Christina: Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, but, uh, yeah, that was just so, uh, you know, the worst part about being like basically unable to be on Twitter this week. It was, I couldn’t even complain about how about like, getting like fucked on Adele. I gets like, I. [00:46:51] Brett: Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. Kvetching. [00:46:54] Christina: Yes. Well, I love, I love a good Twitter bitch sesh. So anyway, but yeah, so, [00:47:00] uh, I will be trying out some of those delete all your tweets tools and, uh, I’ve just, I’ve just been waiting for the drama to die down because I just, I haven’t even, I’ve had my friends looking on my account for me, but I haven’t even been logging on. [00:47:14] I’ve been like, Nope, not doing it. [00:47:17] Brett: That seems that seems mentally healthy. [00:47:20] Christina: You know what I learned from the last time this happened and I was like, yep, I don’t need to see it. I don’t need to care. Donate. Don’t need to know does it, I’m not going to change anybody’s mind. And also genuinely I don’t give a shit with these people. Think of me. [00:47:37] Brett: Fair enough. Well, enjoy, enjoy a week of not checking Twitter. [00:47:42] Christina: Well, I’m, hopefully I’m hoping to be back [00:47:45] Brett: Well, we all, we all hope you’ll be back, Christina. [00:47:49] Christina: I mean, you know, sort of addicted, but anyway, [00:47:52] Brett: All right. Well, get some sleep. See. [00:47:54] Christina: thank you. Get some sleep, Brett.

Christina’s back from a break and the kids get into being saved by regular expressions and maybe the Bell, if Brett will get on board. Sponsor Bespoke Post brings you a Box of Awesome every month. $45 gets you over $70 worth of cool stuff from small businesses you’d love to know about. Overtired listeners get 20% off their first box. Pick your collection and subscribe at boxofawesome.com. Use code overtired at checkout for 20% off! Coinbase offers a trusted and easy-to-use platform to buy, sell, and spend cryptocurrency. Get $10 in free Bitcoin when you sign up at coinbase.com/overtired. Upstart is the fast and easy way to pay off your debt with a personal loan –– all online. Visit Upstart.com/Overtired to get your fast approval with up-front rates. Show Links Lucky Charms Tubester theme Cowboy Bebop Saved by the Bell The Morning Show Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 265 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired, I’m Christina Warren back and here as always with Mr. Brett sharp strap. Brett, how are you? [00:00:11] Brett: I am swell. When you did the countdown, before we started recording, [00:00:15] there was this long pause between two and one. Was that [00:00:20] Christina: I, that was just my, I have no idea. [00:00:23] Brett: It really threw me off. Like I had like the beat going 3, 2, 1. [00:00:31] Christina: it [00:00:31] Brett: how countdowns work. [00:00:32] Christina: that isn’t how countdowns work. [00:00:34] but it wasn’t that long of a pause. It was probably longer than it should’ve been, but it wasn’t that long of a pot. Come on. [00:00:39] Brett: Oh, so yeah, like you, you told me last week you needed, you needed you hadn’t stuff to do. And so I thought, [00:00:47] Christina: I had emotional trauma. So, sorry, go on. [00:00:50] Brett: we can, let’s talk about that in a second. [00:00:52] Christina: yeah, we will talk about that in a second, but yes, please, please tell me about, uh, [00:00:55] Brett: I thought, I thought we have three sponsors. We gotta, we gotta have a show. So I [00:01:00] brought in, I brought in Victor and Aaron, and then as we’re getting ready to record and I’m throwing the notes together, I realized that I had read the calendar wrong and they didn’t sell any sponsors on Thanksgiving. [00:01:13] So we did a show. We just made up our own sponsors. Uh, we did the show anyway, like troopers and, uh, and, and threw in some, some fake sponsors for good measure. I feel like, I feel like we did justice. I think we kept the show going in your house. [00:01:31] Christina: Well, I appreciate that very much. And thank, uh, both of both Aaron and Victor for, for, um, going in for me, especially when it turned out, I could have just had the week off, [00:01:40] Brett: All right. [00:01:41] Christina: um, which that’s depressing. Um, but that’s awesome. And that’s cool that like, you know, since we all work together, um, is Aaron back from leave yet? [00:01:49] Or is she still on leave? Okay, great. [00:01:51] Brett: whole team’s back together again. [00:01:54] Christina: Uh, well, in my defense, yeah, I had, I said, I think you’d have families for whatever. No, I had like emotional trauma [00:02:00] last week. I’m not even going to get a lie. We should just get straight into Brett’s mental health corner. Cause I wanna know how you’re doing. [00:02:05] Brett: It sounds like it could be just mental health corner this week. [00:02:09] Christina: It definitely is. It’s just, you know, the title of the segment is breast mental health border. And that doesn’t change even though it’s above what the bus. Um, okay. So last week was the first time now almost two weeks ago. Um, cause I, I like left on a Monday. I came back on a Sunday, so I was there for a long time. [00:02:28] I was in Atlanta for Thanksgiving and almost people are like, okay, well most people go home for Thanksgiving. Well, I haven’t gone home for Thanksgiving. And since 2011 and my, my mom hasn’t hosted Thanksgiving since 2011. And she used to always historically be the person who always host it. Um, but in 2011, um, on, uh, three days after Thanksgiving, uh, my aunt and uncle who were not with us that year, they were with, um, uh, my, my uncles. [00:02:57] Um, in Florida, they [00:03:00] were, um, in a car accident and, um, and died, um, three days after Thanksgiving, 2011. And, um, his sister and nephew were in the back seat. They fortunately survived. Although his sister had, Um, [00:03:14] some significant injuries and, um, uh, her son, you know, he, he was out of all of them, like the, the best off, but, you know, had like emotional trauma, the whole thing, of [00:03:24] Brett: Um, [00:03:24] Christina: Um, but, but they died in a pretty terrible car accident. And my mom and her sister were incredibly close and it has, um, I’m getting emotional, I’m talking about it, but it ruined, I mean, I never liked Thanksgiving as a holiday anyway, but like it ruined it for our family. Like it just, you know, it was one of those things. [00:03:42] It was like, we can’t do this anymore because it, they are inexplicably, like not inexplicably, um, entrance inextricably. Yeah. They’re inextricably. [00:03:53] like tied together. So it was. It was a lot. Um, my, my mom’s, um, [00:04:00] rather, and his wife, um, and one of their kids in, in, in his family came and we had a family friend there and, and her daughter, um, and so, um, my nephew is six, so he wasn’t, uh, the baby was sick. [00:04:15] So my sister and the baby weren’t able to be there, but it was, it was nice, but it was, it was emotionally just like, like I said, like, I’m, I’m getting teary, you’ve been talking about it, but it was, it was a lot. So it was one of those things where, you know, you go on vacation. I took a bunch of time off work, took like three days or whatever, which for me is a lot. [00:04:38] And, you know, I came back and I had to take like a mental health day on Monday because I was just like, I have emotional trauma from my vacation because it was just a lot. [00:04:50] Brett: Yeah, damn. Yeah. I, I do not have any family holidays marred by tragedy yet. [00:05:00] So. [00:05:00] Christina: I’m very, I’m very glad. Yeah, because it’s a weird thing too, because you know, like it’s moments like frozen in time and like, you don’t even remember God, it was just terrible. Um, they didn’t have any kids. And, um, I got the call. I had just gotten back to New York and I got the call from my mom and she was beyond her, you know, she was beside herself obviously. [00:05:26] And then I was freaking out, I didn’t know what to do. And I I’m really calling one of my bosses and getting on a flight at six o’clock in the morning, the next day to fly to Atlanta. And then me and my mom and, um, my uncle. And I think grant was with us. I can’t remember now. Uh, we all drove in one day to Jacksonville and back to get some of their documents because they live in Jacksonville. So. [00:05:51] we drove from Atlanta to Jacksonville and back in the same day, which is a long drive and had to open up their house [00:06:00] and, you know, try to try to find, you know, some other documents that’s about to hack their Wi-Fi and walking into someone’s house where you see things that have been left very clearly. [00:06:13] They were expecting to come [00:06:14] Brett: Well, sure. Yeah. [00:06:15] Christina: You know what I mean? Like it’s just [00:06:19] Brett: That’s haunting and traumatic for sure. [00:06:22] Christina: so, yeah. So anyway, so that the holiday, which again, I never really liked, but you know, because of that, it was always like, okay, well, After that. I think we mostly went to restaurants. I think we went to Grant’s mom’s house a couple of times, but for the most part, it was, you know, we would go to restaurants in New York, which to me is superior anyway, but it was important for me to be there for my mom. [00:06:42] Um, and it was important for her to like host again, I don’t know if she’ll be hosting any more in the future, but it was, it was important for her to be able to do that. so [00:06:52] Brett: Well, I am so glad we didn’t say anything denigrating about you last week, because that would have just been in horribly poor [00:07:00] taste. [00:07:00] Christina: well, if you did that’s okay. [00:07:02] Brett: We didn’t, we really didn’t. We, we, we honored your absence and then proceeded to talk about work and careers and being thin skinned and gold bond and aggressive masturbation. [00:07:15] And we just covered the gamut. [00:07:17] Christina: Amazing. I love it. Okay. So how’s your mental health doing? Cause I just [00:07:21] Brett: Um, no, you’re [00:07:23] Christina: a lot. Sorry, pod. [00:07:24] Brett: I am, I am like, I think stable, like my swings have been so mild lately that I almost can’t tell if I’m upper down or stable right now. And I think, I think right now I’m stable. I think, uh, I think I got I got away with like a long, very slightly manic phase for like two weeks without like any major follow-up depression, fingers crossed, [00:07:52] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:07:53] Brett: I have [00:07:54] Christina: Fingers crossed indeed, [00:07:55] Brett: I have a psych appointment on Monday. [00:07:56] I have to go into the office for the first time in over a [00:08:00] year, which is fine, except for they take my blood pressure and that I, if my blood pressure is too high, they will cut my stimulants. So [00:08:12] that makes getting my blood pressure, something that raises my blood [00:08:16] Christina: I was going to say like, so it’s a catch 22. [00:08:20] Brett: really is. Um, and like, I see, I see a primary doctor I’m on blood pressure medication. [00:08:26] Everything is as far as he’s concerned under control, [00:08:30] like my, my blood pressure is always a little bit high. Uh, at least when I’m on the stimulants, but within [00:08:38] what yeah. What he considers to be safe, uh, for me, but numerically it’s high, [00:08:47] Christina: And, and so, so [00:08:48] people do that. Yeah. I, I don’t have it with blood pressure, but I have it with heart rate, [00:08:52] Brett: right. Because you always have super low blood pressure. [00:08:55] Christina: Yes. So, but, but so, but I have it with heart rate where my [00:09:00] heart rate is, is naturally elevated. And I think even without a stimulant, it’s elevated, but definitely with a [00:09:05] Brett: like a hummingbird. [00:09:07] Christina: basically. [00:09:08] But with the stimulants definitely is. And it’s one of those things where people freak. Doctors freak out about it. I’m like, okay, but I’m fine. Like, and look, there was a time and I had to wear the heart monitor and shit where my resting heart rate was like one 60. And we went to the emergency room, um, because that’s not normal. [00:09:27] And my apple watch was the thing that actually alerted me of that. But in general, Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s fast, but it’s not anything ridiculous. But I have the same thing where doctors who like don’t know me, like immediately go to like, oh, well you need to go off your simulates. And I’m like, you need to go fuck yourself. [00:09:45] Brett: right. Well, I feel like my current doctor understands that my entire life. As it is now could not exist if I did, if I do not treat my ADHD. And, uh, and I, while [00:10:00] she is, you know, cautious as a medical professional, who is responsible for my life, uh, she has to take some precautions, but I think she’ll work with me on whatever needs to happen. [00:10:12] So all in all I’m I’m I’m doing okay. Um, yeah. You know what I realized about this podcast, [00:10:20] we have two ADHD people with, uh, with bad memories and we probably tell the same story a lot, but I think that our, our audience is by and large, [00:10:32] uh, may, may suffer from the same memory deficit. So maybe it doesn’t matter. [00:10:39] Maybe we could just do the same episode every week. [00:10:43] Christina: oh, okay. That would [00:10:44] Brett: And it could just be like [00:10:44] Frazier for appeal. It could be like their comfort show. They kind of [00:10:47] know what they’re getting into. They know what to expect. [00:10:50] Christina: And it could be like Groundhog day in that it’s always a little bit different. Like you try to alter things Just enough. [00:10:57] Brett: Yeah. [00:10:59] Christina: I would be down with [00:11:00] that. [00:11:00] Brett: to see if we can just change one little thing. That’ll get us out of the loop. [00:11:03] Christina: Yeah, exactly. One little thing. [00:11:06] Brett: you see Palm Springs? [00:11:08] Christina: Um, was that the one with uh, Andy. Yes, I did. [00:11:13] Brett: That was good [00:11:14] Christina: That was really [00:11:15] Brett: for, uh, for like, for a Hulu released movie. [00:11:18] Christina: Well, it Was supposed to be in theaters, I think. Um, and then, yeah, it? [00:11:22] came out at the very beginning of the, of the, um, um, pandemic and, um, Yeah. [00:11:27] cause, cause it was, uh, AB Sandberg that’s who we were trying to think of Peter Gallagher. [00:11:31] Um, and um, Yeah. [00:11:35] so, yeah, so, okay. I just pulled up the Wikipedia Palm Springs had its world premiere at the Sundance film festival and junior 26, 20 20. Oh. And was simultaneous to release on Hulu in select theaters by neon on July 10th, 2020. And again, that’s because of the pandemic. So it was one of those things where I think they sold it. [00:11:54] And then the pandemic happened and then people are like, well, oh shit. Cause it’s a small movie. Anyway. It was like only $5 [00:12:00] million budget. You know, it’s a neon [00:12:03] ration, [00:12:03] Brett: female leading that movie? [00:12:05] Christina: Um, it’s the girl from how I met your mother. Um, I think so. Um, yes, Kristin, uh Milady as she was the, she was the mother, [00:12:15] Brett: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. [00:12:18] Christina: um, at, you know, at the end that they killed, um, fucking show, swear to God fucking worst and ending. [00:12:27] Never. I swear. I was just really, I’m just a mad about it. Just thinking about it anyway. Yeah. [00:12:32] Uh, that was a good movie though. Like, especially as you said For like kind of a Hulu thing, like it was better than I expected it to be. That was good. [00:12:39] Brett: For anyone who hasn’t seen it filed, it’s kind of that stuck in a time loop, trying to figure out how to get to the next day kind of plot. [00:12:48] That’s why that’s why it came up. Um, [00:12:52] we should take a, we should take a quick sponsor break, [00:12:55] Christina: Yes, we should. [00:12:55] Brett: um, because we w apparently we’re just a three [00:13:00] sponsors show now. And, [00:13:02] and, and occasionally for, because our good friends at TextExpander get, get two spots and we have to work them in, in addition to all of these other spots were selling cause were so popular anyway. [00:13:16] Christina: So popular. [00:13:17] Sponsor: Upstart [00:13:17] Brett: If you dread looking at your credit card statements, you’re not alone. Debt can feel crippling. I recently went from barely keeping up with my own credit card payments to having zero credit card balance and fixed monthly payments. And I’m on my way to debt-free now. And that’s thanks to upstart. 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[00:14:27] So they know that we sent you loan amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application. Just head to upstart.com/overtired and cancel out that debt today. So we’re going through this, like we got news. I won’t go into too much, uh, sausage factory information because I don’t want to get fired. [00:14:55] Reorganization [00:14:55] Brett: And I don’t know where the line is, but, uh, last, last [00:15:00] week, like, so two weeks ago we got noticed that. Like our team has kind of this triumvirate of like, we have three managers, like three bosses and, and I reported directly to one of them. And, uh, but we took kind of orders from all three of them. And we got notice two weeks ago that one of the three was moving to a different team, [00:15:27] Christina: Okay. [00:15:28] Brett: not a huge deal. [00:15:30] Uh, and I really liked, uh, the woman who is going to be stepping into his place. And, uh, like everything seemed cool. And then last Monday we get on a, to our first zoom meeting with our manager, just our small little team. And he tells us that he’s also moving to a different team and now we report directly to the other manager. [00:15:53] And, um, the the word reorg is his throne bandied about [00:16:00] which [00:16:00] always makes me nervous because that is almost always synonymous with layoffs in my personal experience. [00:16:07] Christina: Um, yeah, and no, I mean, [00:16:10] Brett: in, in my [00:16:11] Christina: In your experience? No, no, no, no, no. What I was going to say, the thing about corporate America is it’s often. Yes, but I, at least in my experience. [00:16:19] at big tech companies, it’s also very frequent and not always the case. Sorry. [00:16:24] Brett: And this is apparently one of those, not always the case because no one got laid off. A bunch of people move to different teams and they basically streamlined our management of the dev REL team, uh, at the same time. So like I had Victor and Aaron on last week on this show and it had got. Really like, we got some good responses from people. [00:16:47] Like we, a lot of this stuff, we talked about struck a nerve for people and, and started some conversations. And I thought, man, maybe, maybe the three of us should, should [00:17:00] have like something regular. And then I thought, oh shit, I can make my, you know, like my work happy and we could do a podcast for work. [00:17:07] And then that blink brainstormed into this whole, like here’s what we could do different to make our jobs better. Right. I was all ready to present that to my manager on the morning that I found out he wasn’t my manager anymore. Uh, so I took it to, I took it to our new manager and she loved it. And I think, I think my job’s going to get better because we’ve been, we’ve been editing other people’s tutorials about things that none of us understand. [00:17:35] And we basically just been doing grammar and spelling checks on other people’s work. And it’s, we’re like burning out from boredom and lack of growth. And, uh, so we’re gonna start like actually doing tutorials and bringing in experts and creating, uh, content, uh, podcasts and videos and actually learning some stuff. [00:17:58] And I think it’s going to be way more fun [00:18:00] now. So yeah, I think it’s all it’s going to be good in the end. I think it’s, yeah, I don’t think there’s going to be a downside to. [00:18:08] Christina: No, I think that’s awesome. That’s great. I’m happy to hear that. Cause yeah, cause sometimes you, you, you don’t know. Right? Like sometimes like it, it seems like it’s, it’s fine. And then sometimes it’s like, um, you’re, it’s scary. I’ve been through a lot of reorgs at Microsoft. Uh, Microsoft is kind of famous for loving them and some of them have been better than others. [00:18:27] Like one of them was really good. One of them was not to be honest. Um, and, and that wasn’t really like the fault of, um, uh, the person that was put under, uh, uh, they didn’t choose me. I didn’t choose them. It was just one of those things. And, um, uh, sometimes they make more sense than other times. And, um, uh, ironically, the reason I’m on Deborah, which is where I always should have been, was because literally the week that I joined the company, there was, um, we got a new, um, uh, corporate vice-president and there was going, she [00:19:00] like announced and give people months of advance notice, which amazing from her. [00:19:03] She was like, yep, there’s going to be a reorg. And everybody was kind of scrambling. And I was like, Okay. So the job I was hired for is probably not going to. [00:19:12] exist the product I work on. And I knew this even before I found out that she’d been hired. Like I did my second day, I was like, oh, this is not going to exist in a year. [00:19:21] And it didn’t. Um, and uh, I had to like scramble basically and find like a new team, a new, and I actually went to a completely different part of the company. Um, and, uh, but that was like a fight or flight moment for me. So you’re not having to do any of that. It seems like this is going to be good. It seems like you’re like, at least now like seems like you’re, you’re going to enjoy your job more. [00:19:42] So this is, this is exciting. [00:19:44] Brett: Um, speaking of Microsoft, [00:19:46] I saw a tweet just this morning that had a screenshot of edge popping [00:19:53] up a warning. If [00:19:55] you went to the Google, if you went to [00:19:57] download Google Chrome, [00:19:59] Christina: is so shitty [00:20:00] and, and, and I’m, I’m I’m, I’m like [00:20:03] Brett: it’s just, it feels so like [00:20:06] early days of internet Explorer. [00:20:07] Christina: Yeah, no, it does. Well, here’s the thing. And, and, and I have to be careful what I say about this, because I’m not a public, well, I don’t represent Microsoft. Everyone who listens to this podcast should know that and knows that. [00:20:20] However, as people at the company have informed me, you know, I am a public figure. Well, no, I think that the term was well you’re, you’re kind of a, and I was like, no, I, I am, I, I, that’s how I would be classified. I have a Wikipedia. Like, I’m not trying to say anything. Most people have no fucking clue who I am, but in this sphere, I definitely, I am. [00:20:41] I like most employees kind of run the risk of like, oh, if you say something you’re speaking on behalf of the company, I especially run into that risk. So I have to be careful what I’m saying here, which is not to say that I’m not going to be critical of it because I am, I just need to temper it. But yeah, it seems like early internet Explorer, full shed also hedges [00:21:00] really good. [00:21:01] Like, like. Edge is better than Chrome. And I like knowingly use edge now. I mean, I have Chrome installed because I have everything installed, but I haven’t used it in, I don’t even know how long I don’t even think I’ve ever used it on my new Mac except to install it. And actually very recently, um, I found this awesome. [00:21:25] Note extension that takes a high-quality screenshot of tweets. And, um, I had a Python, um, a script that someone CLI script that someone had written before that used selenium and stuff, but it was, um, uh, uh, not updated. This one has been actively like worked on and is good. And what it’s doing is rather than going through the whole selenium stuff, it’s, it’s, it’s opening up the, um, uh, headless version of Chrome and then using the Dom to capture the, um, tweet and then making a couple of adjustments and then saving it as a file. [00:21:58] But you can also customize like the width and some [00:22:00] other stuff. Like it’s, it’s a cool tool anyway, I’ve chromed cell for that, but I don’t even use it, but like w w and there was some talk like from people, like if you had to have a pop-up, why, why wouldn’t you maybe have a feedback thing? That’s like, Hey, we see you’re downloading this. [00:22:15] Could you give us some feedback as to why that would still be a little, annoying, but it wouldn’t be as. [00:22:20] Brett: little creepy, but way less, um, way less totalitarian. [00:22:25] Christina: Yeah, [00:22:25] Also, I mean, okay. And then this is just going to be in me and then I’m going to get off it. Look, Google does do similar things to be very clear. Like they have all kinds of, you know, like if you, if you go to their sites and whatnot, and another browser, like, Hey, do you want to download Chrome? Or, or, you know, um, Gmail really works better in Chrome. [00:22:42] You know, YouTube really works better in Chrome, which is the same sort of bullshit because people like my dad will see that and we’ll download it, not realizing that whatever they were using almost certainly works just as well, Um, although, you know, Google does do their own bullshit where like, they’re like, oh, well we’re going to hold back [00:23:00] features or whatever. [00:23:01] But one of the, things that got me is they were like, you know, it’s so 2008 and on the one hand. Okay. That is funny. And I did laugh on the other hand. Um, I don’t know with edge is in the position to really punch down on that. Considering it’s based on chromium, right? Like I’m just kind of like guys, like I get, I get the point, but can you not? [00:23:26] Brett: the pop-up I saw said that, Hey, did you know ed runs on the same, uh, engine as Chrome, but you get the trust of Microsoft. [00:23:38] Christina: Okay. That’s a move. Well, no, cause it is. Cause it’s a weird thing. I think that there’s a certain for a certain number of people out there, they might find that compelling. There’s a whole other, certain part of people who are going to just laugh in the face of that. Right. Because they still remember Microsoft is like the Microsoft for more than 20 years ago, [00:24:00] which is what, you’re, what you brought up. [00:24:02] You’re like, oh, you know, it seems like old, old internet Explorer days. So like at least that is more honest. The one that I saw the screenshot of was like, Hey, you know, that browser associates thousand eight, you know, don’t, you want to stick with like the modern whatever. And on the one hand again, that’s funny, but also you literally, as they said in that other one, like it’s literally built off of chromium, literally 95%, the same thing, the depth tools are better on edge. [00:24:33] And I like, um, yeah, yeah. The dev tools are better. Um, [00:24:37] Brett: really into Firefox’s dev tools. They do a really good. [00:24:40] Christina: you should check out the edge ones. You might still prefer firebox, but the edge ones are good. Cause that team is working hard on it. And they are also actively actively taking feedback and suggestions. Um, it also [00:24:50] Brett: their dev tools department. [00:24:52] Christina: correct. Correct, because that is, I think one of the ways cause, and they have like really good integration with Visco. [00:24:58] They’re actually, they don’t have [00:25:00] a complete theme engine yet, but there are some themes you can select for it and they are working on a way so that you can match your edge dev tools, theme to your vs code theme. [00:25:10] Brett: Huh. [00:25:11] Christina: Uh, they, they, they have a number of them available now, but they’re, they’re working on it. So you could do anything, which is awesome. [00:25:16] Um, I mean, that’s just a small nerdy thing, but like, I like that. I like having my tools look the same. Um, and the integration between the two works really well. Um, so edged up tools are really good, but you know, the base of the thing, like the extensions are the same. There are a couple of differences and, and to be clear, like the edge team does contribute a lot upstream to chromium, but, um, you know, like shoulders of giants. [00:25:42] So anyway, go on. That was my rant. [00:25:45] Brett: My, my S my theme that I use in all of my editors, my lucky charms theme, I don’t think anyone else in the world likes that color scheme, but I’ve gotten so used to it that I can’t, it’s like, it’s a, it’s [00:26:00] a light background, [00:26:01] Christina: Yeah. It looks like cereal milk. [00:26:04] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Like the end of eating lucky charms when your milk’s turned all yellow and you [00:26:10] just have a few marshmallows floating. [00:26:12] Um, yeah, but like, I don’t think anyone else, I just don’t see it being a popular theme ever. It just happens to be like what my brain likes [00:26:23] Christina: Yeah. Which, which is cool. There was one I used, I can’t remember what it was called now, but I used to text main theme for years that I think I was like the only, it was tube star. That was what it was called. Um, and I think I was one of, I think I was the only one who did it. Um, and as the maintainer, civil, this day of like the largest repository of texts, main themes on get hub, um, which shockingly still gets a number of people doing stuff from it. [00:26:47] because they can convert those [00:26:49] Brett: Oh yeah. The, the TM, The, TM, theme format is still accepted in most modern editors, even though most of them use a Jason format by default. [00:26:57] Christina: Exactly exactly. I mean, that was one of the first things that, [00:27:00] that, uh, vs code did was they were like, yep, we’re going to adopt this and create like a, a converter sort of thing. They also did a thing for some of the plugins, you know, to make that easy, which I think is one of the reasons why vs code took off the way that it did. [00:27:12] But, um, Yeah. [00:27:14] Um, but I used that for a long time. Now I’m using, What have I been using? I’ve been using it for like three years. Um, it’s uh, it’s um, like a retro type of, it’s kind of like a cyberpunk type of theme. Um, I even use it in, um, uh, Nova, um, when I use that. Um, but yeah, [00:27:32] Brett: What was the old one you used tube, sir. [00:27:35] Christina: Schuster. Yeah. [00:27:38] Brett: I’ll look that up. Um, do you want to hear about before we, before we leave tech behind [00:27:45] my Vic, my victory for the week at work, [00:27:48] Christina: Yeah. [00:27:49] Brett: this is people, people who do. Use regular expressions who don’t understand why they’re useful. Here’s an [00:28:00] example. So we got this edict that all content on our little self-publishing platform that linked to anything@oracle.com, any sub domain or Oracle cloud.com had to have these long tracking links on them, uh, with unique codes for the page, it was linking from so like two different pages on the site could link to the same Oracle page, but they needed different tracking links. [00:28:32] And that was going to be this whole mess of editing. And, and we were going to have to have this whole system for like generating these links that would have to be propagated out to every author that contributed to our. So I wrote a plugin and all you have to do now is put the, uh, the, the MRM code. It’s like a 10 digit string. [00:28:58] You just have to put that in the [00:29:00] front matter for the Jekyll post and any oracle.com link in the post is automatically linked. Uh, it takes, and then I got a CSV file of all the existing content with its, uh, MRM codes and wrote a 10 line script that updated everything in one go. So I’ve saved the company, probably 40 hours of retroactive work and, uh, untold amount of work going forward. [00:29:32] And the filter that does the whole thing is basically three lines with two regular expressions. [00:29:39] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:29:41] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. People people are very, people are very thankful and ecstatic. And I have not told anyone at work yet that it’s only three lines of code. Cause I feel like that would diminish the magic. [00:29:55] Christina: Well, I mean, it couldn’t, it couldn’t, I mean, at one hand it might diminish magic. On the other hand, it might be [00:30:00] like, holy shit, these three lines just saved us an entire world. [00:30:05] Brett: Yeah. [00:30:06] Christina: Which is significant, um, uh, let’s get to our next sponsor, but then I actually want to talk kind of just talking about that thing. [00:30:13] I want to talk about an idea that hit me and that I texted you about on a Thursday. but we’ll get into that in just a second. [00:30:20] Sponsor: Coinbase [00:30:20] Christina: So , this episode is also brought to you by Coinbase. Cryptocurrency might feel like a secret or exclusive club, but Coinbase believes that everyone everywhere should be able to get in the door, whether you’ve been trading for years, or you’re just getting started. 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When you sign up today at coinbase.com/overtired, this offer is for a limited time only. So be sure to sign up today. That is coinbase.com/overtired. [00:31:34] Coinbase offers a trusted and easy to use platform to buy, sell, and spin cryptocurrency. Get $10 free Bitcoin when you sign up at coinbase.com/overtired. [00:31:46] Brett: Thanks Coinbase. [00:31:48] Christina: Thank you, Coinbase. [00:31:49] Everyone needs version control [00:31:49] Christina: No, and seriously it did. Did a crypto come up in your family conversations at Thanksgiving this year. [00:31:54] Brett: I did not see family this year. [00:31:56] Everyone, everyone went to Georgia and I said, no, [00:32:00] thank you. [00:32:01] I don’t like to travel or stay in other people’s homes. And I’m just gonna, and my girlfriend worked and [00:32:08] basically I had a nice relaxing Thanksgiving where I just watch TV and ate tacos. [00:32:14] Christina: See, that sounds amazing. That sounds really good. I, I watched a lot of TV, which we’re going to talk about in a second, but just to kind of close the loop, because you were talking about how you were able to optimize and automate, like basically with three lines of code, your object was able to save all this time. [00:32:29] So, you know, a few weeks back we were talking about, I guess, about a month or so ago, we were talking about how, um, It was talked about this with Victor, but we also talked about before Victor was on about how like you have to teach, like non-developers how to use version control. Right. And how you probably, and you’ve done this probably more than almost anybody on the planet, you know, having to teach normal people. [00:32:50] Victor wouldn’t be one of them, but like normal people how to use market out. Right. Okay. So. [00:32:56] Brett: Well, even, even like when you get into, especially with [00:33:00] technical documentation, [00:33:01] understanding like how to nest a fence code block inside [00:33:06] a nested bullet list. [00:33:08] Like it’s just, there’s all these indentation rules and everything that I take for granted that [00:33:14] are, you have to take the time to explain, [00:33:17] oh, you actually don’t need to end dent within the fence code black and the fence code black doesn’t need to be double indented because that’s only for indented code blocks. [00:33:25] Christina: Yeah, no, totally well, okay. So a team that I work with, it’s not my team, but we’re kind of in the same family. And I used to work with them a lot more closely. Um, the, the video team and Deborah at Microsoft, um, were Golnaz. Who’s awesome. Um, she was like, okay, look, we all have to, because they just moved to a brand new video platform and the old system had kind of a CMS and there was a way you would upload things and title things. [00:33:48] And it wasn’t great. It was, it was, you know, kind of junk, but it worked well and it was a gooey and it was a traditional CMS, the new way that they’re doing everything, because the videos are now hosted on the docs platform [00:34:00] is all marked down based. And then there is a, like a table of contents, Yamhill will file, which is a whole other thing. [00:34:06] Um, but you know, but this stuff itself is just going to be in kind of nested markdown files that have a particular format and particular things that they need to commit to get hub and they need to work on them. And so she was trying to get everybody should kind of like a two day thing where she was trying to teach everybody. [00:34:22] And she didn’t really know a lot of this herself. So she was learning to, you know, learning, get learning, get hub and learning markdown. And it reminded me of our conversation. And I was kind of seeing how they were struggling and they were getting concepts. But like for instance, they were having issues where before they realized what they could do with get, they were all literally making changes to stuff they’re trying to commit them. [00:34:42] And then they were deleting the folder on their computer and then grabbing things down again from GitHub To be updated. Like they were literally like just downloading like the folder again and like opening it up and then deleting everything and doing it to make their changes, not [00:34:57] Brett: be fair. That is [00:35:00] basically what we ended up telling the non-developer people on our team to just always pull a fresh, clean. Time. [00:35:07] Christina: No, but they weren’t even pulling a clone cause pulling, it would be fine. Like they were literally like deleting. Oh, okay. So you mean they were, so they were like, [00:35:14] literally just deleting [00:35:14] Brett: Delete, deleting and doing a clean, a clean clone. Every time they wanted to start a new branch just [00:35:21] to avoid the conflicts. [00:35:23] Christina: well this wasn’t even so much for starting a new branch. This was just like, for them to like commit their changes and [00:35:28] Brett: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:35:29] Christina: So, so they weren’t understanding the whole push pull thing. Um, once everybody got on the same branch yeah, That works. Um, although Golnaz deleted some stuff, she didn’t want to delete it. [00:35:38] So it, it, we were trying to, we reverted the commitment. We were trying to like remove, uh, or not remove one file from one of those things. And we were, [00:35:48] Brett: yeah. [00:35:49] Christina: we were having issues and I was like, I was like, Genuinely, what would be easier is if we just recommit what we reverted and then we just manually Riyadh this file because that this is going to be [00:36:00] faster. [00:36:01] Brett: That happens even to, even, even, to people who know kit. Well, there are [00:36:05] Christina: No, I know [00:36:06] Brett: a commit contains too many files and you only want half of them, [00:36:10] and it’s just easier to [00:36:13] delete it and manually add them. [00:36:15] Christina: we’ll know. And that’s what we want of doing. And that’s what I was kind of trying to explain to her. And I was like, look, I’m not trying to say I’m like an expert, but I’m pretty good. And I was like, this is too much. I was like, there is a way to do this. I don’t really know the easiest way to do this, but, but this is going to be better. [00:36:30] And, and, but she did learn a really valuable lesson, which is, do not commit too many things at once. Like, like do it in masters, like, oh, so this is why you do this. Well, this occurred to me. So this is now twice in a month that we’ve in granted, we’re working with technical documentation and stuff, but I’ve seen this come up with other people where. [00:36:48] You know, like non-developers are having to learn about these systems and there are no resources because I’ve looked, there are no resources aimed at the [00:37:00] non developer audience for learning, get learning, get hub mark down maybe a little bit, but certainly not. If you’re going to be doing the nest is sort of stuff like you’re talking about. [00:37:09] There’s nothing that’s kind of written in kind of plain language, um, that doesn’t have a ton of assumptions that people already know how to set things up, but it just doesn’t exist. And so I think that we should do a course. Like, I, I feel like it’s a sign. I feel like this has happened now. You know, this conversation has literally come up twice and this is just in the last month. [00:37:33] And I’ve dealt with this for years. I know you have to like, I, I used to have like, even at Mashable, God, even when I worked at AMC as like a freelancer, I had like a whole remember screen stuff. [00:37:44] Brett: Oh, yeah. Oh my God. I was a huge fan of screen step. [00:37:48] Christina: I was too. I had an entire screen setup site set up showing people how to use markdown and, and, and this was in 2009, you know? And, um, and, and people used it because it was [00:38:00] the, the CMS that we had was literally the worst thing I’ve ever used in my entire life. It was, it was unusable. And so markdown was one of those things that was just going to be an easier thing for people to do. [00:38:13] Um, and, um, uh, so like I was doing that sorta stuff. So I was just thinking, I was like, you know, these are skills, especially people who, cause I asked Twitter, if you will be interested in and people were, I was like, would this be something people would be interested in? And, and a lot of people. Even if I wouldn’t be, I would want to refer people to, but this is the sort of thing where especially, I think for like people who are PMs, um, and work on technical teams, work on technical documentation. [00:38:37] These are people who are really good at what they do, but they don’t have the background where they haven’t lived in read this stuff. There’s nothing out there for them. So that is my proposal that we, and I, I mean, you said you were down and we were talking about it, but I’m putting this out on the podcast you, cause I want to hear the podcasts, like the listeners, like thoughts, because these are many of our people. [00:38:55] Would that be something you’d be interested in? You know, like a video kind of written course [00:39:00] about how to do all this stuff, but not from the perspective of, we expect that you have, you know, um, you, that you programmed for a living. [00:39:08] Brett: I think there’s also like, I think any writer working even individually, not even on a small team, I think there are benefits to a markdown get workflow for everybody. These are like free tools that you [00:39:27] can use. And version control is like [00:39:30] autosave on steroids, which [00:39:32] every writer has like had experiences where they wish they could see, like at what point things went wrong. [00:39:40] Christina: No. You’re exactly right. I mean, I’ve actually, and I’ve said this to the office team for years where we’re, and I’ve tweeted this and I’ve gotten like, when I’ve tweeted this before, it’s gotten massive response where I’m like, I want get for like office documents, if you will, like, oh, you know, I mean, track changes. [00:39:56] I’m like, no, not track changes. I want like an actual like diff system where [00:40:00] I can see what Was [00:40:01] added, what was removed and, and like for PowerPoint, for, you know, for Excel, for, for word, where you can see each individual thing and you can see where stuff went wrong. Like, I would kill for that to the point that I’ve, that I’ve like reverse engineered and I, and then it stopped working. [00:40:16] But I like had a thing where I like write things in markdown and having get in the head away, like converting it into word documents and then going back. But that anyway, [00:40:25] Brett: there was, there was this Mac app called I think it was called draft country. And it basically added version control to any type of file. Uh, it was specifically designed to work with like word documents and, and various RTF formats. And, um, I dug into it one day I dug into the, the files it was storing and it was basically using get bundle [00:40:50] Christina: Yeah, [00:40:51] Brett: and, and, and, tracking like change history on you just point it to a directory and it would automatically, as changes came in, it would [00:41:00] create these, these bundle commits. [00:41:02] It was pretty cool. It, it died like it just got, it stopped being updated one day and then eventually stopped working. [00:41:09] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I’m seeing this in the eye. It looks like it was written about in 2014, um, which is a shame, but also it’s complicated, but it’s one of those things where, like I mentioned, this. You know, I mean, like, I don’t know. I feel like it’s something that Microsoft could do, and apparently there are ways people could do things like that, but I feel like there’s a, and I’ve said this before, and I will say this again to somebody who is smarter than me. [00:41:30] I just want to create a course, but this is, I’m not even joking. This is a billion dollar co this is a billion dollar idea. If you could have a true like version control, like sort of like, um, text editor, office, suite sort of thing, or even a way to add version control to, you know, like the standard office suite, that is a billion dollar idea because, um, of all the, all the issues that people have and Google docs doesn’t do that. [00:41:54] Like they have the collaborative thing, which is when I first say that people like, oh, you know, you can collaborate on Google [00:42:00] docs. I’m like, yeah, no, I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about version control. And I’m talking about like line by line, you know, like [00:42:06] Brett: Blames. [00:42:07] Christina: the block. I’m talking about blames. [00:42:08] Exactly. I’m talking about being able to go like line by line and see, yes, I added deleted remover this thing and, And I can, you know, like, [00:42:17] Brett: And I signed off on this change and there’s an audit trail to show exactly who did what. [00:42:22] Christina: Exactly, which is really important. So, but but I agree with you. I think even normal writers, like even if like, all you do is like writing on your own, whatever. I mean, I wrote everything. So did you and mark down for my whole career and version control was also an important thing too, because again, like you said, like, you want to know when shit goes sideways or when something doesn’t save or when like, or [00:42:47] Brett: it also gives you the license to make mistakes because you know that you can, you can always backtrack any single line. You can find, you know, where, where something went [00:43:00] wrong and you can just get it back like in, [00:43:02] and, and without having to like, go back to that version of the document, you can actually replace just a line. [00:43:10] Christina: That’s what I’m [00:43:11] Brett: you can get very finite with it, very granular and, and you can, you can make a branch, you can mess things up as much as you want to. If all goes wrong, it’s a switch back to the main branch and never merge it. And like, it just gives you [00:43:24] the license to fuck up. [00:43:26] Christina: It does. And you’re right, because there are all those times when like you’re writing and You have a really good paragraph, you’re on a roll and then you delete it for some other reason. And, and then you are writing further and you’re like, shit, I really liked what I said there. And you don’t have that option in, in other tools. [00:43:43] So, um, anyway, I think this is something that we should look at doing. Cause there isn’t a course out there that’s written for non non-technical people like non, primarily technical people about this. And I think that, like you said, I think everybody could benefit. And so [00:43:57] Brett: You know, what’s nice on ghetto. [00:44:00] Line by line comments in, in commits and in diffs, like we do our edit, like people who want to submit to our publishing platform, uh, they make a poll request and then I can check out their poll request. I can make my edits. And then in the diff I can just hit the plus sign next to a line number and add a note saying, here’s why I made this change. [00:44:25] Here’s what you need to look for in the future. Uh, before I merged the commit and, and it’s like a great way to, it’s like adding notes to a word document, uh, it, it gives me all of the Virgin control. Plus I get to tell people why I made each change and that’s a get hub thing, not a good thing, but, [00:44:43] Christina: Right. [00:44:45] Brett: but it’s a, it’s a cool tool for that. [00:44:47] Christina: No, that is really cool. And I think that’s the thing too, is like that’s, um, uh, obviously get, get hub are different, but I think that for some people, especially, you know, people, they become. The same, like [00:45:00] a lot of people just know get hub, which is okay. You know? Um, but I do think it’s important for people to kind of know like the basics of both, but that is cool. [00:45:07] I didn’t know about that feature on GitHub. That’s really interesting. So anyways, that’s, that’s my proposal. I would love to hear feedback from our listeners. If this is something you would be interested in, um, [00:45:17] Brett: And how much would you pay [00:45:19] Christina: yeah. How much would you pay? Cause I would be curious about that too. I feel like, I feel like there’ll be an opportunity to maybe even up tiers depending on how in-depth you want it to go on stuff. [00:45:30] I don’t know. We’d have to look it up, but yeah, I would definitely be interested knowing how much you’d be willing to pay for this. Yeah, exactly. But, but it’s, you know, I mean, like, so I’m just saying, cause like I would love to be able to give it away for free, but this sort of thing and some of it we might be able to, but I assuming this, this happens, [00:45:47] Brett: We’ll give you a taste. [00:45:48] Christina: We’ll give you a taste Yeah, [00:45:49] Brett: for free. [00:45:50] Christina: totally. But I just feel like this is, this would be a lot of work, but I feel like it would be important and um, [00:45:55] Brett: But if you want to learn how to use, get bisect, that’s gonna cost ya. [00:46:00] Have you ever used goodbyes? Do you know what get bisect [00:46:02] Christina: I know when it okay. I’ve heard of it and I can’t think of what it is? [00:46:05] Yeah. [00:46:06] Brett: So like, so something goes wrong. You have a bug in your, in your app and you want to figure out when you, you don’t know what caused it or what change. So you, you dig back and you find a commit where it’s not there. You find a commit that works, and you mark that as a good commit. And you mark your current commit as a bad commit. [00:46:26] And then you start by sect and it divides the distance between the good and the bad. And then you test it. And you say you mark the current, the current commit as good or bad. If it’s bad, then it rewinds halfway between the two bad commits to two or between the original good commit. And the current commit. [00:46:47] If it’s good, then it serves moving you forward until you find the exact committed. Where it went wrong, it just keeps dividing the distance between the two. And you just hate you just keep doing, get a [00:47:00] bisect continue until you get to the commit that broke it. It’s an amazing tool for tracking down bugs. [00:47:06] Christina: Oh, that’s awesome. [00:47:07] Brett: I don’t, I don’t know when it was added to get, but it’s a really cool sub command. [00:47:12] Christina: That is really cool. And see, that’s the thing too. This is a sort of course that could continue to be updated, um, because they are always making changes stuff. Anyway. Uh, Losa your thoughts, how much you would pay for something like that? Cause that was an idea I had and I actually think it’s a really good one. [00:47:25] Sponsor: Bespoke Post [00:47:25] Brett: So, um, I want to talk about TV. I want to tell [00:47:28] you about some stuff first, literally about some stuff. [00:47:32] Christina: Literally. [00:47:34] Brett: If you like stuff, if you like stuff and things, I have just the sponsor for you. Uh, as we get back into the swing of things, bespoke post is here with a new seasonal lineup of must have box of awesome collections, bespoke post-purchase partners with small businesses and emerging brands to bring you the most unique goods every month. 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Get 20% off your first monthly box when you sign up@boxofawesome.com and enter, enter the. Overtired at checkout that’s box of awesome.com with the code overtired for [00:49:00] 20%, 20% off your first box bespoke post brings you a box of awesome every month, $45. [00:49:07] Get you over $70 worth of cool stuff from small businesses that you would love to know about overtired listeners get 20% off their first box. So pick up your collections or pick your collections and subscribe@boxofawesome.com and use code overtired at checkout for 20% off. Whew [00:49:27] Christina: Good [00:49:28] Brett: stuff and things. So, okay. [00:49:30] Masses need opiates [00:49:30] Brett: First TV question. [00:49:32] Christina: Yes. [00:49:33] Brett: Were you ever into cowboy bebop as an enemy? [00:49:39] Christina: But I don’t remember much of it to be completely honest. And I’ll also say this there’s some anime that I really do enjoy. And like when I find myself watching it, I can really like, but like historically the only enemy? [00:49:47] I was really into was the film of Kira. [00:49:49] Brett: Yeah, Akira and ghost in the shell. Like [00:49:51] those two I’ll swear by, but nothing else really ever caught my attention. Um, but yeah, so I was never, I’d never got into cowboy [00:50:00] bebop. I knew of it. [00:50:01] Uh, and so, [00:50:03] Christina: of where I’m at. Like, I think I’ve seen like some of it, but, but, but I have no idea who the characters are. I don’t know any, you know, like I I’m aware it’s a thing. I’ve no clue. I could tell you like, nothing more about it. [00:50:16] Brett: when Netflix came out with a live action cowboy bebop, I was intrigued, like I had to give it a shot and it is, um, it is excellent. I highly recommend that you check it out, Christina. I th it’s super it like the, the cast is awesome. The writing is very, it’s like gritty Nawara cowboy futuristic. Um, they’re like bounty hunters and it’s very, uh, it’s got a real, um, what’s the movie I’m thinking of with, uh, San Angeles, uh, blade runner. [00:50:57] It’s got a [00:50:58] very blade runner, gritty, [00:51:00] new R feel to it. [00:51:01] Christina: oh, that’s cool. [00:51:02] Brett: Excellent effects. Excellent. Uh, like the spaceships are awesome and yeah, it, I, I definitely, I want you to see it so we can talk about it. [00:51:12] Christina: Okay. All right. I will, I will definitely watch it so we can talk about it. [00:51:16] Um, [00:51:17] Brett: the dude, um, what’s his name? I’m looking it up right now. Mustafa shook here shook her shucker um, he was in Luke cage. Uh, he has he’s he’s a black guy with these eyes that I think they might be green. I’m not sure they’re they’re dark, but they reflect enough light that he has this haunting look like when the, when the ring lights are on his eyes, it just, they glow. [00:51:49] It is. It’s amazing. You got to see this guy [00:51:53] Christina: Okay. Okay. All right. So I will check that out if you say that it’s good. Cause I was going to be honest, I was kind of like, eh, I can [00:52:00] pass this, but if you’re you kind of had me at a blade runner type of thing. And if you say that it’s good and worth talking about, then I will watch it. Um, [00:52:07] Brett: here. I’m dropping a Lincoln Quip. You can just take a quick look at. Oops at, uh, the picture of Mustafa and you can see what I’m talking about. I dropped it in, but it won’t let me out dent it. So it looks like we’re part of tube, sir theme. There we go. [00:52:25] Christina: Okay. Oh, cool. [00:52:28] Brett: Yeah. Right. [00:52:30] Christina: Yeah. Okay. Very, very good stuff. Okay. So for me, TV wise, the thing that I, and I mentioned this to you before, and obviously, and I do not blame you, you’re kind of like, why would I watch this? But I implore you and the rest of the audience who might be, um, like thinking yeah. Reticent. [00:52:51] but, but it might be thinking like this would be done, but like, if you have the opportunity, if you have peacock, um, or if you have other ways of getting it saved by the bell, the [00:53:00] reboot is incredibly good. And, um, I I’m, I’m, I’m a big fan of, [00:53:10] Brett: Do you have to care about the original. [00:53:13] Christina: no, it’s, it’s good. If you know some of the jokes, like it’s good if you’ve seen the original, so you can be aware of some of the jokes. However, it is definitely not one of those things where you’re like, oh Yeah. [00:53:24] I have to, um, you know, um, like be like a completely like, you know, embedded in it and connect it to this thing. [00:53:32] Like, it, it, it’s not, um, so it is, uh, like you don’t have to, like, if you’re a super fan, I think you will enjoy it because it’s funny and it makes fun of the show. But even if you’re not, I think that you would find enjoyable thing. So it’s created by somebody who was, um, a writer on 30 rock. She’s the. So it’s very tongue and cheek. [00:53:51] It’s a weird show. The second season came out, this is kind of the news. I think it’s better than the first they’ve made it kind of this weird world, which I really appreciate. Like they just let shit [00:54:00] kind of get weird where, and then they sort of acknowledged the kind of break the fourth wall a little bit. [00:54:04] And they acknowledged kind of the craziness sometimes of like, where is this place? What is this world like? It’s, it’s very self-aware, but it’s also funny and it’s sweet and, and I, I don’t know exactly who it’s for. Like, I don’t know if the kids today would be super into it. I would hope they would like it. [00:54:21] Um, there’s going to be some references and some things they don’t. So I feel like in some ways it’s really perfectly aged. Like it’s perfect. It’s perfect. People who are my age, I think would be perfect. Like people like, like you would, I think you would like it. Honestly. I feel like if you gave it a shot, you would like, it, it it’s, it’s ridiculous, but it’s also like. [00:54:41] Really good. Like it’s, I’ll say this, there is no way in hell. And there was no reason that the show should be the quality that it is. Like, there’s absolutely no reason. Like you hearsay about the bell reboot and you think. Oh, my God, this is going to be the most cheesy, awful, terrible thing. And it is not. [00:54:59] Um, [00:55:00] I think one of the smartest things they did is they hired the guy who did the web series. Zack Morris is trash, which was like a show that recapped episodes in the same of the bell. And then just pointed out all the ways that Zach Morris is terrible, even though he’s my favorite. Um, they hired him. He, he, he’s a, he’s a writer. [00:55:16] He’s actually the, the, um, the story editor. Um, and so he’s on the writing staff and he actually does a podcast with Mark Paul Gossler who played Zach called Zach to the future where they revisit episodes that say the belt, which Barbara guzzlers apparently never watched. And they talk about it. And, and it’s it. [00:55:32] That’s funny too. And they very frequently kind of delve in all the ways. It’s like, oh my God, like, how did, why, why would we think this was okay, so, but anyway, but that guy is on the writing staff, which I think gives you kind of a sensibility of like, Oh, okay. They’re not being, they’re not modeling about the past at all, because they’re not like there, it there’s, there’s an episode in the second season where, um, Elizabeth Berkley’s character, um, talks about her, her time in Vegas, [00:56:00] which is a complete throwback to Showgirls. [00:56:02] And she has on like Versace boots and whole things. And like, she goes to this whole thing and like has lines and Showgirls. It’s a very, it’s very funny how it’s worked out. Um, and that’s kind of a big deal. Cause it’s my knowledge that the actress has never really talked about Showgirls. I think she showed up to a screening once, but like it ruined her career and, and, uh, that has not been one of the things that she’s been happy to kind of go in on. [00:56:25] So the fact that she could joke about it and that they like made fun of that. I was actually really impressed. That was really funny. So, um, if, if I just I’m for people, it’s a, it’s a weird show, but in a good way, I really like say by the ball, like. [00:56:44] Brett: knowing what you know about Al, which isn’t to say a lot, but you have a general idea of her sensibility. Do you think this is a show that I should try watching with without, or is this one I have to give a shot on my own. [00:56:58] Christina: no, I think you could wash it [00:57:00] with her for sure. Um, cause it’s, it’s like, it’s, it’s silly. Uh, but, but it’s smart. Um, they also handle, you know, like they address like class issues and, and other kind of social things in a smart way that is not modeling again. Like it’s not like one of those, like. Very special episode of things. Yeah, no, I, I think, I think that I would like it. I mean, the thing, the, the basic premise is that there is an underfunded school, I think like in, in a certain part of Los Angeles, they got shut down, uh, because, uh, governor Zack Morris, um, did the budget and got something wrong until he had to cut all sorts of money from school. [00:57:39] So a bunch of schools got shut down and then people freaked out and somebody had the idea of, well, why don’t you just send the poor kids to the rich schools like Bayside. And, um, he, he jumps on that idea because he doesn’t want people to not like him. And so these kids from this other school end up at Bayside and, [00:58:00] um, you know, kind of have to integrate with the, in this other world. [00:58:03] And, and the way the Bayside is portrayed is that. [00:58:05] to outsiders. So people who don’t go there, it’s like, okay, why, why, how is this even a real place sort of thing. Um, and, uh, and it’s very funny and, um, It’s, but there’s also like, like, you know, throwbacks to, to earlier episodes and stuff. And so if you did watch the original series, which most people did, you didn’t, but most people have at least seen, they probably seen more episodes than they can count. [00:58:32] Cause it was on reruns all the damn time. Um, there’s a great essay about same at the bell and, uh, Chuck Klosterman, uh, book, um, um, yeah. Uh, sex RX. Yeah. Uh, I would love to hear his thoughts on the new one because I feel like it’s would be completely the sort of thing he’d be into. Um, but, uh, Yeah. no, it’s just, it’s, it’s really good. [00:58:51] And it, and it’s, it’s sweet, like I said, but it’s also, it’s just, they got, they went really weird in some ways in the, in the second season, which I really appreciated. It reminded me at 30 [00:59:00] rock in that sense, you know, there’s kind of like this different reality, you know, for, for certain things, which I really liked. [00:59:07] So. [00:59:08] Brett: All right. You know what I’ve realized about ELLs sensibilities in television? She does not like lawbreakers. Like she, she shows like Ozark and weeds and breaking bad and even bad girls. Like she just, she are good girls. What was the show called? [00:59:31] Christina: Yeah, [00:59:32] Brett: Good girls. [00:59:32] Good girls. But they were bad girls. [00:59:35] Uh, it’s funny. [00:59:36] Um, like she just can’t get into characters that go against her sense of, [00:59:42] you know, like whatever morality, uh, is for her. Um, like she’s fine if someone is breaking the law, but for a just cause and they’re doing, you know, what feels like the right thing. She’s fine. But if people, I think it’s, if people are doing things they know [01:00:00] are wrong, like she can’t get into the show and it’s, I’m like, I’m kind of the opposite. [01:00:06] Like I really enjoy watching people. [01:00:10] Okay. [01:00:10] Christina: so she would sh so she would hate succession succession, which is my favorite show. She would load that, which totally fair, um, as really interesting, well, this, this is safe for the bell, so it doesn’t have any of [01:00:21] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. I, it could, it could, that could fit in her, her need for people to be good guys. [01:00:28] Christina: Well, knowing that is kind of the thing is that even the most kind of like sociopathic character, Mack, Maura sack, Morris’s son, who is very funny and very charming, and the kid is very cute. Like the way they, the way he’s played, the way the actor plays him is really great. But also the way he’s portrayed, there’s like you see a little more to it, but it’s also so ridiculous that like you just, everyone just kind of both laughing at him and then he’s also. [01:00:54] I it’s hard to describe, but Yeah. this, this would definitely be one of those shows that definitely doesn’t have anybody [01:01:00] who’s like going against their moral code or anything. Like there, there, there are no, there are no villains, you know, this is, this is a comedy. Um, it, it is more adult. Uh, this is the only thing that, again, like I said, I don’t know who the audience is because the original was obviously ambit children. [01:01:14] It was on Saturday mornings. I think that teens would like it if they watched it. Um, but there are a lot of references and jokes and kind of things about stuff. There’s definitely more adult. And, and, and they, you know, they say, bitch, I don’t think they, they curse in any other ways, but, but it is definitely more, you know, they, they make jokes about having sex. [01:01:34] Like, it is definitely not like the milk toast like saved by the bell. We have like a Peck on the lips and the whole audience goes, Ooh, you know, it’s not that shit at all. [01:01:46] Brett: All right. Yeah. Speaking of pandemics and TV shows, did you watch this season of the morning? [01:01:57] Christina: Yes, I fucking loved it. [01:01:58] Brett: It was kind of [01:02:00] amazing. I think it like, there’s [01:02:01] a place for a show that recaps the last two years [01:02:05] we’ve had, like, it’s really kind of riveting because for anyone not watching it this season, they, they embraced the pandemic and they [01:02:14] basically are telling this story of the early days [01:02:18] Christina: At the early [01:02:18] Brett: of the pandemic. [01:02:20] Christina: it ends the day of lockdown. It’s so funny. Cause it ends the day that my friend, Alex and I went and saw jagged little pill on Broadway. The last day Broadway was open before it was closed down for 18 months or whatever. And, um, uh, I went to the dashboard confessional concert. It’s like what I consider like my last day of, of anything. [01:02:39] And it ended then. And I was like, cause I watched the screeners and uh, she and I were watching them together, but we couldn’t watch them at the same time because only one person could be logged into her screen or account at once. And, um, I was like texting her cause I like stayed up all night, like watching all of them and I, Yeah. like two of [01:03:00] our predictions came true and one of them was like, oh my God, they’re going to end on on this date. [01:03:04] And it’s I thought it was great television also. I loved that. It, it fully embraced being a so. [01:03:11] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Do you think they’ll tackle, uh, D do you think the next season will include black lives matter? [01:03:20] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. They get [01:03:22] Brett: Kind of has to [01:03:23] Christina: I asked, you know, cause, cause that’s the next thing, right? Like, cause cause if you look at 2020, I mean that was the next big moment. Like that ends in March and then the next big thing would have been, you know, may George Floyd, like you’d have to like, there’d be no way that you could not. [01:03:35] Um, it’d be, I think I, and I don’t know if they even picked up for a third season or not. I sure hope they have. I know it’s very expensive. Um, and I don’t know how it’s performed for apple. I really enjoyed it? [01:03:44] I really liked, uh, the, the, uh, Bradley Corey, um, uh, Laura thing. Um, [01:03:51] Brett: In the season finale, [01:03:52] I won’t no spoilers cause it’s still pretty new, but yeah, the dynamic between Bradley and Corey [01:04:00] is pretty outstanding. [01:04:01] Christina: it is in, and they were always to me, especially in the first season, they were like this show and. [01:04:08] Brett: His character is so, [01:04:10] uh it’s so his, like, his character is so superficial though. [01:04:15] Like he is nothing. If he’s not a scheme, like everything is a scheme [01:04:20] and like to break through to any actual, like, real emotion that isn’t put on for the sake of [01:04:27] manipulation that, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s very raw. It feels very exposed and raw. [01:04:35] And I think they did a great job with [01:04:37] Christina: No, I thought they did a great job. I think that, that, uh, Billy credit was fantastic. Uh, I thought all the acting was really good. Um, and I, like I said, I really liked, they embrace it. [01:04:45] being a soap. And, um, and I liked it. Uh, we saw like a lipstick bisexual, like, you know, You know, in her forties, I kind of like exploring that stuff. [01:04:57] Like, I, I, I liked the [01:05:00] whole show. Um, I loved the season actually. Um, I’m glad we’re talking about it, but Yeah, the, this, this, the season finale was really good and the Corey and Bradley scenes were really good. And, um, I really hope it gets a third season. I’m, I’m Googling out to see, uh, if it has been renewed. [01:05:16] Um, but, um, it has not been renewed yet. Um, but I’m really hoping that it, that it will, um, uh, [01:05:27] Brett: it seems like a decent property for apple based [01:05:30] Christina: I mean, I think [01:05:30] so. [01:05:31] Brett: promo anyway. [01:05:32] Christina: Oh, no, totally. And, and it gets them prestige. I think the problem is I’m pretty sure that the, I I’m pretty sure it was 150 million a season or something like I’m I’m I’m I, you know what I mean? [01:05:42] Like, it wasn’t an extremely expensive show. Um, [01:05:45] again, without having spoilers, one of the main cast members, they wouldn’t have to have, you know, pay any more, but like, I think that Anniston and, and, and Wetherspoon are each getting like 2 million an episode. So [01:05:58] Brett: Damn. [01:05:59] Christina: yeah. [01:06:00] So [01:06:00] Brett: million an episode. [01:06:02] Christina: seriously, I was just want 2 million but like it’s. [01:06:06] Brett: Just give me one episode. I’m good. [01:06:08] Christina: Yeah. Um, so I, I really feel like, um, I hope that they do it. I think it’ll just come down to, I don’t like, it was definitely the prestige play and they did get some Emmy nominations and some wins, but I don’t, we’ll have to see, um, I hope that I hope that they, they bring them back. Cause I really, really like. [01:06:29] Um, but yeah. [01:06:32] Brett: All right. Well, this has been fun. Happy [01:06:35] Saturday. [01:06:36] Christina: happy Saturday. And [01:06:38] Brett: glad [01:06:38] you survived Thanksgiving. [01:06:39] Christina: Thank you. Thank you. Sorry for being emotional earlier, but, um, [01:06:43] Brett: That’s what we’re, we’re all here for you. It’s [01:06:45] Christina: Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, I’m glad that, uh, that, that, uh, the gang was able to, uh, uh, the gang does a sponsor for the episode, was able to go off without a hitch. That, that, that would be the title. [01:06:56] And, and it’s always sunny parlance, [01:06:58] Brett: Yes. We went with [01:07:00] confusing erections, [01:07:01] Christina: which is even better. I [01:07:03] Brett: which is also, also, uh, the gang gets confusing. Erections would be the, uh, [01:07:08] Christina: it would be this, they always [01:07:09] Brett: reference areas. [01:07:11] Christina: Uh, that is probably a show that um, that L does not like I was going to [01:07:16] Brett: is not Apelles Elza alley. [01:07:20] Christina: one of my favorites, but I, but see, these are good things to know. Yeah, I do. Okay, You can definitely watch it with a belt with her though, so, okay. [01:07:26] Brett: cool. Cool, cool. Uh, have a great week or Santa [01:07:31] Christina: Thanks Brett, get some sleep. [01:07:32] Brett: get some sleep.