Cider Chat

In This Episode, We Cover Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it) What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they turn fully brown (depending on the fruit) The "custard stage" vs. fully bletted "medlar-like" stage (and how this relates to cider pressing windows) Ben's sorb travel finds across: Croatia (including fruit for sale at the market + trees growing in yards) Moravia (Czech Republic) — including the Sorbus museum and harvest festival France (sorb hunting with Arnold and tasting cormé/cormé-style ferments) Somerset, UK (a surprise roadside discovery!) Growth habits that can make Sorbus domestica look like an oak Why sorbs may matter in a changing climate: deep root systems drought resistance long lifespan later bloom time (less frost risk) Seed-grown vs grafted sorbs — and why Ben prefers genetic diversity (for now) The surprising reality: sorbs have already been distributed widely in the U.S. through seedlings What's being made with sorbs in Europe: brandy co-ferments with grapes wine experiments Time Stamps 00:00 Introduction to Sorbus Domestica 00:18 Meet the Podcast Host: Ria Windcaller 00:52 Exploring Sorbus Domestica: History and Uses 01:25 Cider Chat Episodes Featuring Sorbus Domestica 02:39 Sorbus Domestica in France and the US 04:05 Cider News and Upcoming Events 07:53 Interview with Ben Kunesh: Chocolate Pears 08:33 The Unique Characteristics of Sorbus Domestica 17:25 Sorbus Domestica Around the World 21:03 The Versatility and Adaptability of Sorbus Domestica 24:20 The Future of Sorbus Domestica in Orchards 25:49 Sorbus Domestica: A Historical Perspective 27:34 Ben's Travels and Discoveries 34:25 Exploring Sorbus Domestica Variations 35:30 Propagation Techniques and Genetic Diversity 37:29 Historical Context and Distribution 39:50 Nursery and Distribution Efforts 41:09 European Adventures and Discoveries 45:30 Tasting Sorbus Domestica Products 54:23 Future Prospects and Cultivation Tips 01:00:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 🎧 Listen to Episode 487 of Cider Chat® wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to subscribe so you never miss what's coming next in Ciderville. 📺 Prefer to watch? Find Cider Chat on YouTube for more cider stories, orchard adventures, and global cider culture. 💛 If you love what you're hearing, please consider supporting Cider Chat Your support helps keep the podcast on the air and makes it possible to share more interviews and deep-dive conversations like this one.

Recorded live at CiderCon, this episode brings listeners into a rare, in-depth conversation about Chile's living cider tradition—one shaped by more than 450 years of apple fermentation, deep regional biodiversity, and community-based agriculture. Moderated by Eli Shanks, this panel features cider makers, cooperative leaders, and academics from southern Chile who explore how apples arrived, adapted, and endured across Araucanía, Los Ríos, and the Chiloé archipelago. Rather than a "new" cider movement, Chile offers something far rarer: a cider culture that never disappeared. At the heart of the discussion is Chicha—the traditional name for fermented apple beverages in Chile—and the cultural weight that language carries. Panelists unpack how Chicha and cider share the same roots, why heritage orchards matter, and what's at stake as aging farmers, development pressure, and climate change threaten seed-grown apple diversity. Listeners will also hear about: Heritage apple orchards over 100 years old, many grown from seed The role of women as primary stewards of orchards and biodiversity Native fermentation vessels made from Raulí and other Chilean woods Cooperative cider making on the island of Chiloé The challenges of valuing cider beyond "cheap, rural" perceptions The future of Chilean cider on the global stage, including education, competitions, and potential export This episode offers an essential perspective for anyone interested in cider as culture—not trend—and in how place, people, and history shape what ends up in the glass. Panelists & Contributors Eli Shanks – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Head Cider Maker, Western Cider Gicella – President, Cooperative Chilwe (Chiloé) René Galindo – Third-generation cider maker, Araucanía Carlos Flores – Co-founder, Punta de Fierro Fine Cider; Orchardist, Valdivia Fabián Lara – Cider & beer consultant; INDAP (Chilean Ministry of Agriculture) José Antonio Aldea – Professor and fermentation educator Key Themes Chilean cider and Chicha traditions Heritage apple orchards and seed-grown ecotypes Women's roles in orchard preservation Cooperative models and island agriculture Native materials and spontaneous fermentation Preserving cider culture in a changing landscape Timestamps ⏱️ Detailed timestamps are listed above to help you jump to specific topics, speakers, and cider discussions. 00:00 Introduction to Chicha and Cider 00:26 News Out and About Ciderville 00:43 Episode Overview: Chilean Cider Panel 03:30 Upcoming Events and Announcements 07:42 Introduction to the Chilean Panel 10:44 Chilean Cider Regions and History 16:11 Traditional Cider Making in Chile 18:11 Modern Chilean Cider and Future Prospects 20:16 Cider Tasting and Panel Discussion 29:32 Consumer Perception of Cider in Chile 30:07 Challenges and Efforts in Differentiation 30:34 Traditional and New World Ciders 31:13 Exciting Apple Varieties and Characteristics 32:19 Naming and Regional Varieties 35:40 Incorporating Local Fruits into Cider 38:09 Historical Context and Apple Lineages 41:47 Fire Blight and Disease Resistance 42:57 Modern vs. Traditional Cider Making 44:15 Collaborations with Winemakers 47:12 Preserving Heritage Apple Orchards 52:10 Forming a Cooperative in Chiloé 54:53 Market Development and Sales Strategies 57:03 Generational Gaps and Preservation Efforts 59:08 Future Goals and International Connections Support Cider Chat® If you value independent, long-form conversations that preserve cider history and amplify global voices, consider supporting Cider Chat® on Patreon. Your support helps keep these stories accessible and the podcast on the air.

Carlos Flores is an architect, landscape designer, and co-founder of Punta de Fierro Fine Cider. At the 2025 CiderCon in Chicago he presented Carlos presented "Developing An Experimental Edible Forest in a Heritage Apple Orchard." - this episode features his full presentaiton and you will also find his audio synced with all the power point slides at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel. Find full shownotes to this episode at https://ciderchat.com/podcast/485-chile-edible-forest-cider/ 00:00 Intro to Cider Chat - news 00:49 Carlos Flores and the Edible Forest 01:43 The Rich History of Chilean Cider 04:03 Upcoming Cider Events and Tours 08:41 Carlos Flores' Journey and Vision 18:40 Creating the Edible Forest 30:59 Bees and Flowers 31:08 Meteorological Station and Climate Change 32:24 Community Involvement and Workshops 33:37 Greenhouse and New Trees 34:12 Summer School and Neighbor's Orchard 36:17 Building a Cider House 37:47 Biofilter and Water Management 39:32 Community Impact and Economic Development 41:34 Pruning and Tree Management 43:14 Future Plans and Experiments 50:22 Funding and Government Grants 55:30 Final Thoughts and Conclusion Contact info for Carlos of Punta de Fierro Cider Website: https://puntadefierro.cl Listen to Episode 421: Explore the Rich History of Chilean Cider w/Punta de Fierro Mentions in this Cider Chat 393: How to Wassail & Drink Hail Totally Cider Tours CiderCon2026 Support Cider Chat via our Patreon Page!

Meet Patrick McCauley, a Michigan-based cider maker and researcher, who is questioning some of the most common myths about American cider history. What Patrick uncovers is a far more regional, farm-based, and resilient cider story than the usual "cider died because of Prohibition" narrative. 00:00 Introduction to Cider and Prohibtion 00:23 Meet the Host and Guest 01:56 Listener Support and Community 04:51 Cider Salon Hungary, Uk & French Cider Tour 08:03 Featured Conversation with Patrick McCauley 10:25 Cider Production and Historical Insights 14:48 Regional Cider Production in the US 30:36 Impact of Prohibition and Industrialization 37:30 Challenges in Cider Production 38:33 Cider Culture and Consumer Perception 39:22 Historical Context and Regional Differences 42:08 Modern Cider Making Techniques 45:14 The Future of Cider 48:05 Historical Research and Discoveries 59:24 Reviving Lost Cider Traditions 01:05:58 Closing Remarks and Gratitude Contact info for Patrick McCauley Listen to Patrick's Episode 302: Cider Mills of Washtenaw County (1841 to today) Website: https://patrickmccauley.reinhartrealtors.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat 2026 UK Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour Patron letter - Zach New England Cider Association - @newenglandciders Cider Salon Hungary Cider Chat Patreon - join today!

Enjoy this annual winter tale from Cider Chat Central! In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Talking Pommes Grand Winter Party is more than just a story - it's a celebration of all things pome, community, tradition, and the joy that comes with every glass of cider. The cider house hums with anticipation as Ria, Perry Pear, Mr. Quince, and the Medlars prepare the night before their annual pressing. But as every year before there is always magic in the air for Ciderville. With the Talking Pommes truly anything can happen and so it does! With snow blanketed orchards, and just the right amount of "Believe" a sleigh pulled by apples glides through the starry sky. Raise a glass and join us on this festive adventure—because in Ciderville, the magic is always just a sip away. Meet the Stars of the Cider House This holiday episode of Cider Chat brings together some of Ciderville's most delightful characters: Apple: The vibrant leader with a twinkle in their eye. The Medlars: Sweet, quirky, and always ready with a witty remark. Mr. Quince: The taskmaster who wants to be a comic Perry Pear: Full of charm and flair, a natural performer. A Wide Assortment of Pommes: From Dabinett to Kingston Black, they bring their unique personalities to the mix. The Gift of Holiday Cider Magic This story is for anyone who cherishes the magic of the season. As Apple says, "Every glass of cider holds a story, and this one's for you." From Cider Chat to all of Ciderville, we hope this episode brings joy to your holiday season. Raise a glass, gather 'round, and join the Talking Pommes and Ria in Ciderville!

At the New York Cider Fest in November, there were 2 Cider and Cheese sessions. Cider Chat Emcee Ria Windcaller attended one featuring ciders from 4 different makers. This cider and cheese pairing was led by Rachel Freier, a cheesemonger who is based in the Finger Lakes. She brought deep knowledge, humor, and a whole lot of heart as we tasted our way through four ciders and three cheeses. 00:00 Introduction to New York City Cider Fest 01:55 Networking at the Cider Fest 02:50 Exploring the Finger Lakes Cider Scene 04:36 Upcoming Cider Tours and Events 09:32 Cider Making Tips and Anecdotes 13:46 Featured Presentation: Cider and Cheese Pairing 23:31 Sterilizing Juice and Grape Skins 23:41 Exploring Apple Varieties: Northern Spy and Crab Apples 24:06 Harvesting Feral Fruit and Gnarly Branch Rose 24:51 Pairing Cider with Cheese 25:31 The Finger Lakes Cider Scene 26:09 Cider and Goat Cheese Pairings 27:19 Kingston Black: The King of Apples 30:16 The Art of Blending Ciders 31:09 Sustainable Cheese Making 33:43 Chisel Jersey Cider and Cheese Pairing 36:19 Upcoming Cider Chat Episodes 37:20 Celebrating the Holidays with Cider 39:23 Musical Outro: Strange Apples Contact Info for the Ciders and Rachel Rachel Freier, (Cheesemonger): Eve's Cidery - Maker Ezra Idiot Brother Cider - Maker Robert Grisamore/ Cider Works - Maker Simon South Hill Cider - Maker Steve Mentions in this Cider Chat Episode 198: Becoming a Pomologist w/ Dr. Peck Totally Cider Tours UK tour feature in CAMARA's Pint West Patron Letter - Sune 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour The Talking Pommes' Grand Winter Party Annual Special Episode

Tom Oliver is delightfully talented, mischievously witty, and not only a renowned cider maker but also a top-notch perry maker. He may say, "If you're going to make perry and work with pears, you've already identified yourself as being criminally insane," but what we found was simply a bold maker willing to go the extra mile for every bottle. Enjoy this audio snap shot at Oliver's Cider and Perry Herefordshire, recorded on the 2025 Totally Cider Tour_UK Edition. Hear him share the story behind transforming his family's old hop barns into the heart of his cider and perry production, offering listeners a rare look into his traditional farmhouse methods. He discusses the challenges and joys of working with tannic cider apples and perry pears, spontaneous fermentation, barrel aging, and the evolving climate's impact on cider making. Tom has been featured in many Cider Chat® episodes and will be one of the select scheduled stops on the 2026 UK Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour. 00:00 Introduction to Perry and Cider Making 00:17 Meet the Host and Guest 00:57 Totally Cider Tour Experience 03:28 Challenges of Perry Making 04:11 Foraging and Traditional Perry Making 05:09 The Importance of Known Varieties 06:28 Cider Preferences and Quality 07:43 Totally Cider Tours - UK 10:18 Tom Oliver's Cidery Tour 11:47 Barrel Room Insights 13:08 Perry and Cider Fermentation 14:35 Pressing and Storing Fruit 15:51 Unique Perry Varieties 21:48 Barrel Aging and Tasting 25:03 Introduction to Fermentation 25:49 Wild Fermentation Process 27:11 Saccharomyces Yeast Role 28:34 Fermentation Containers and Aging 29:26 Bottling and Release Plans 29:44 Fermentation Under Pressure 32:28 Temperature and Duration of Fermentation 33:43 Challenges with Temperature Control 36:31 Barrel Cleaning and Maintenance 38:27 Regulations and Environmental Concerns 40:54 Conclusion and Future Plans Topics Covered The transformation of Oliver's hop barns into barrel rooms The shift from hops (Fuggles, Northdown, Target) to cider and perry fruit Why perry making is "a walk through madness" compared to cider The discipline of pressing and storing tannic pears at their peak Wild fermentation: apiculate vs. Saccharomyces yeast and how they shape flavor Barrel aging as both art and alchemy The sensory nuance of minerality and mouthfeel Keeping barrels "organically clean" for wild ferments Rising temperatures and the modern challenges of traditional cider making Perry Pear Varieties Mentioned Butt – dense and slow to soften; can store for weeks Thorn – softens quickly, needs immediate pressing Judge Amphlett – early ripening, fast fermenting Winnall's Longdon – honeyed, complex, but fragile and quick to spoil Yellow Huffcap – rich tannins, aromatic, often over-ripens on the tree Ciders & Perrys Tasted Eskimo Eyes Perry – 6% ABV, aged six months in rum and white wine barrels. A still perry that balances delicate fruit, subtle oak, and lingering depth. Barrel-Aged Still Cider – 9.2% ABV, matured 18+ months in Irish whiskey and Scotch barrels, bringing notes of minerality, oak, and sherry-like warmth. Call to Action If you've ever wondered whether you're bold enough to make perry, this episode will either inspire — or warn — you. Join Tom Oliver and other makers on the upcoming 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour, and hear more stories from the barrel rooms of cider's most daring artists at CiderChat.com. Send an email today to mailto:info@ciderchat.com Contact info for Oliver's Cider & Perry (Tom Oliver) Website: https://oliversciderandperry.co.uk/ Mentions in this Cider Chat Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour 2026 – get on the wait list today! send an email to info@ciderchat.com and let us know how many slots you would like to have us keep open for you!

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview 00:32 French Pronunciation Fun 02:27 Holiday Gift Ideas for 2025 02:59 Cider Chat News and Updates 04:42 Listener Stories and Experiences 07:49 Upcoming UK Cider Tour 2026 12:47 Featured Presentation: 2025 Holiday Cider Gift Guide 13:35 Cider Chat Partners and Supporters 25:30 Stocking Stuffer Tips and Cider Supplies 31:36 The Perfect Name for American Pommeau 45:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 00:00 Introduction and Language Fun 00:14 Cider Chat Episode 480 Overview 01:10 Naming Poot in America 02:27 Holiday Gift Ideas for 2025 02:59 Cider Chat News and Updates 03:08 New Patron and Michelin Star Connection 04:42 Michael of Edulis Cider Journey 06:25 Rising Costs of Starting a Cidery 07:49 Blossom Time Tour 2026 12:47 Holiday Cider Gift Guide 13:35 Cider Chat Partners and Supporters 25:30 Stocking Stuffers and Cider Supplies 31:36 The Perfect Name for American Pommeau 41:32 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Find full episode show notes and links at https:ciderchat.com

New York Cider Fest 2025 brought together makers and enthusiasts for an unforgettable day at City Winery Manhattan. In this special collection of on-the-floor recordings, Cider Chat® captures Audio Snap Shots with festival patrons. Hear how attendees at the New York Cider Fest are viewing cider today — what styles they're excited about, how they're drinking it, and the foods they love to pair with a glass, including their favorite Thanksgiving matches. Episode Timeline 00:00 Introduction to Cider Chat 02:34 Exciting News: Totally Cider Tours 10:21 Feature Presentation: New York Cider Fest 12:24 Listener Snapshots: Cider Enthusiasts Share Their Stories 18:45 Exploring Cider Pairings and Preferences 19:22 Cider Travels and Discoveries 25:17 Food Influencers at Cider Fest 28:05 Meet the Food Bloggers 28:35 Kylie and JJ's Cider Journey 32:30 Katie's Fruity Cider Favorites 39:09 AJ's Tequila and Cider Combo 42:22 Adventurous Ashley's Cider Travels 45:48 Cider's Growing Popularity 47:56 Join the UK Cider Tour 49:20 Cider Song Finale Contact info for the New York Cider Fest The New York Cider Association hosts this annual event – go to their website at https://www.newyorkciderassociation.com/ Mentions in this Cider Chat 2026 Blossom Time Totally Cider Tour April 27th – May3rd Guest Instagram accounts on this episode @roommatesfeasting @fontanas_food @adventuressashley

What is Pommeau? Pommeau is a: fortified blend of fresh apple must (unfermented) and apple brandy (typically Calvados in Normandy or Lambig in Brittany). The unfermented apple juice and brandy are combined before fermentation, which halts the process entirely and preserves natural sweetness. By law in France, Pommeau must be aged a minimum of 18 months in oak and produced within designated regions. It's rich, amber-colored, and served as an apéritif. It is consider to be a French heritage drink shaped by decades of refinement and protected standards. When did Pommeau receive AOC status? Pommeau received its official Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée (AOC) status in 1991, formalizing the traditional method and legally protecting what can and cannot be called Pommeau within France. And in America? If you ask what Pommeau is in the United States, the answer is: nothing defined. There is no legal TTB definition, no standard of identity, and no trade agreement protecting the name. Yet hundreds of U.S. labels already use the word…sometimes accurately, sometimes loosely, often inconsistently. So the question becomes, "What happens when a French classic with strict rules lands on U.S. labels with no rules at all?" That's the conversation American isn't having… yet. In this episode, Ria speaks with alcohol beverage attorney Lindsey Zahn to unpack what it means to use the word Pommeau in the U.S.—legally, culturally, ethically—and what cider makers and consumers should consider going forward. What happens when a French classic with strict rules lands on U.S. labels with no rules at all? That's the conversation America isn't having… yet. In this episode, Ria speaks with alcohol beverage attorney Lindsey Zahn to unpack what it means to use the word Pommeau in the U.S.—legally, culturally, ethically—and what cider makers and consumers should consider going forward. Key Topics Covered What Pommeau legally means in France Why the TTB has no definition for Pommeau How hundreds of U.S. labels were approved without consistency The difference between fortified cider vs. Pommeau Why a COLA approval does not protect you from trademark or trade disputes U.S.–EU trade agreements and why Pommeau is not protected Risks for current makers using "Pommeau" on labels Why "American Pommeau," "Pommeau-style," or accurate class/type statements may reduce risk The opportunity for U.S. cider associations to create a new American term A call for a naming contest—what the U.S. cider world could build together Why truth in labeling matters beyond regulatory compliance Why this conversation needed to happen…ten years ago Contact info for Lindsey Zahn P.C. Website: https://www.zahnlawpc.com Previous Cider Chat episode with Lindsey : Episode 85 Lindsey Zahn on Cider Law TTB Labeling Resources: https://www.ttb.gov 00:00 Introduction and Common Misconceptions 00:23 Meet the Host and Guest 01:35 Episode Overview: Focus on Pommeau 03:13 Cider Tours Announcement 06:58 Listener Support and Sponsors 08:40 Main Discussion: Legal Aspects of Pommeau 25:34 Trademark Rights and Labeling Concerns 27:34 The Importance of Due Diligence in Labeling 28:46 Pomo: A Gray Area in Cider Labeling 30:30 Alternatives to Using 'Pomo' 32:36 Truth in Labeling and Production Methods 36:08 Advice for Cider Producers 38:39 Role of Cider Associations 46:08 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Mentions in this Cider Chat Totally Cider Tours