Paleo Protestant Pudcast

A wide-ranging conversation about how papal health and elections ripple through Protestant life. They compare populist figures, media spectacle, and the political interest that drives papal coverage. The panel debates whether a conservative pope matters for Protestants and how Catholic practice and visibility shape Protestant expectations. They also unpack papal history, national influence, and what an American pontiff might mean.

The Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican heirs of the Protestant Reformation continue to make news by not attracting attention from observers of American Protestantism. The co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian), talk about two recent articles about traditional Protestantism that either imply or claim that such Christianity is down on the mat for the count (think boxing). One is Brad East's "Goldilocks Protestantism" and the other is Casey Spinks "Does Traditional Protestantism Have a Future?" The conversation may not be as hopeful as some listeners want. But along with the last episode on non-denominational Protestantism, this one reveals further challenges that confessional Protestant communions face. Follow some of us -- Miles Smith @ivmiles and D. G. Hart (for now) @reallyoldlife.

Conversation centers on the rise of non-denominational Christianity and what that means for traditional denominational bodies. They compare membership trends across Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, and smaller Reformed groups. Topics include youth retention, geographic and class influences on church choice, liturgical appeal versus theology, and why institutions still matter for accountability and support.

The Pudcast returns with co-hosts Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) in the after glow of a very long holiday season -- that seems to get longer the older the observer becomes. The recording starts with question of whether the five to six weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years -- when everyone seems to return to pandemic levels of output in the workplace -- is too long. Included is attention to the particular aspects of holiday observance among Lutherans and Anglicans (with Lutherans getting lots of credit for using the phrase, "The Divine Service" most often). Material that stimulated the discussion was Ross Douthat's speculation that secular liberalism has run out of steam and Eli Lake's report on the Jewish-Americans who wrote so many of the secular Christmas songs. Listeners who have not seen Whit Stillman's movie, "Metropolitan" should do so asap even if it is no longer Christmas or Advent or Debutante Ball season. Owing to the recent death of former POTUS, Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump's election victory, the co-hosts also speculated about the effects of past and future presidents on the religious vibe in the United States and elsewhere. Bonus content: here is an introduction to Washington Irving's Old Christmas, a story that shaped American customs surrounding the holiday.

When most confessional Protestants are preparing for end-of-calendar-year holidays, they are likely thinking about Lutheran seminary education. For that reason, this discussion with co-hosts Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) will be a treat. The basis for discussion is an article that Korey Maas wrote for the Acton Institute publication, Religion and Liberty, on the late 1960s controversy at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis which led to the exodus of confessionally liberal Lutherans not only from the seminary but also from the LCMS altogether. Among the points of controversy was the doctrine of inerrancy, which gave the conflict a certain resemblance to the Presbyterian controversy of the 1920s. Spoiler alert: the co-hosts never mention beer and only bring up Presbyterianism at the end of the episode. So you have to listen to the end (at least it's not behind a paywall). The article by Korey Maas who is still not on Twitter (formerly called Twitter) is here. The LCMS statement on the authority and infallibility of the Bible is here. Miles Smith is still @ivmiles and D. G. Hart is still @oldlife. As is always the case, the pudcast would not exist without the incomparable assistance of @presbycast.

The vibe for this recording was solemn even if the co-hosts Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian) were also excited for the upcoming marriage of our only confessional Protestant bachelor (sorry ladies). The reason for the somber mood was Miles Smith's piece at MereOrthodoxy on evangelicals and politics. There he suggests that American Protestants have lost a sense of nations sitting under God's judgment. In which case, the presidential campaign and the results could be less a story of redemption than they reveal God's rebuke of an errant society. From that starting point, conversation ranged to the degree to which confessional Protestants suffer from viewing the United States as a redeemer nation, how millennialism affects nationalism, differing estimates (Augustinian or Eusebian) of Christian government, and even whether Christians can learn a tragic sense of politics from H. L. Mencken. No sponsors, but it should have been Joy dishwashing detergent.

We did try, the we being co-hosts Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian). The plan was to have a Zoom chat with listeners. We did but only one listener showed up. We will have to take another run at this. Even so, the lack of other chatters and despite some technological glitches, the co-hosts still managed to talk about what it means to belong to the church, the importance of the institutional church (over against parachurch competitors), and the degree to which cultural or civilizational Christianity reinforces church ties. Among the titles that we mentioned in connection with the effects of the Cold War on church life in the United States were Stephen Bullivant's Nonverts: The Making of Ex-Christian America; Darin Lenz's article, "'Hail Luther's Contribution': A Sixteenth-Century Reformer in Cold War America" in Church History; and Kirk Farney's Ministers of a New Medium: Broadcasting Theology in the Radio Ministries of Fulton J. Sheen and Walter A. Maier. Even "The Crown" came up (still working on "The Wire") in relation to the episode that features Billy Graham's preaching for Queen Elizabeth (Season 2, ep.6). No sponsors this time. We would hate to sully any company or institution with this sorry technological performance.

The Woody Allen movie, "Manhattan," includes a scene where two couples are walking and the one played by Michael Murphy and Diane Keaton unveil their Academy of Overrated. To this body they assign Gustav Mahler, Isak Dinesen, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Lenny Bruce, Norman Mailer, Mozart, , Vincent Van Gogh, and Ingmar Bergman. The co-hosts on this recording, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith (Anglican), and D. G. Hart (Presbyterian), consider their own list of overrated theologians. The ones discussed are Karl Barth, the recently deceased Juergen Moltmann, and C. S. Lewis. The reason behind raising the question is not to belittle any of these theologians' achievements but to consider how it is that a theologian -- when there are so many -- emerges as the "go to" authority for ending a doctrinal debate. It also relates to confessional Protestant theological traditions in which those students training for a specific communion are going to be much more likely to read theologians in the Lutheran, Reformed, or Anglican traditions -- instead of reading broadly in the theologians who transcend specific Protestant communions. A final thread of conversation was whether the "big names" of Protestant theology can survive in an age of megachurches and church planting networks. The sponsor this time is Ethan's Donut Factory in downtown Hillsdale, Michigan.

The co-hosts, Korey Maas (Lutheran), Miles Smith @IVMiles (Anglican), and D. G. Hart @oldlife (Presbyterian) have returned to campus and are so dedicated to their audience that they carved out time before the semester starts to talk about denominational news. Summers are when the NBA hosts its championship so that commissioners from confessional Protestant communions have something to watch after denominational meetings. The co-hosts go through the round-up of denominational news and even though the Lutherans did not meet Korey Maas explains the peculiarities of Missouri Synod polity. The hosts also discuss the relative toxicity of David French (who was invited to a Presbyterian General Assembly only to be uninvited) and Carl Trueman who drew crowds at an Anglican synod (Diocese of the Living Word). For anyone outside a denomination and feeling a hankering for this sort of Christian organization, Ross Douthat's nostalgia for the Protestant mainline in the United States may suggest the value of such structures. Yuval Levin's own positive estimate of institutions is another reason to consider the superiority of denominations to networks and church-planting start-ups. Keep an eye out for a live Paleo Protestant Pudcast sometime in September. Information will be forthcoming (dv).

The whole crew (D. G. Hart-Presbyterian, Korey Maas-Lutheran, and Miles Smith-Anglican) returns in this discussion of Miles's review of several recent books by evangelicals who left evangelicalism to become - you guessed it - exvangelicals. These books parallel the rise and fall of the Young Restless Reformed which was the subject of this article. These trends also coincide with the increase of Americans who qualify as "nonverts," that is, people who used to identify as some version of Christian and now consider themselves "none," as in having no religion. For those who consider the importance of institutions, especially for confessional Protestants with a high doctrine of the church, these trends present serious dilemmas for the ongoing ministry of word and sacrament through the agency of an institutional church (sometimes known as denomination). Confessional Protestants generally take denominational structures for granted even though since the rise of the megachurch (1990s), followed by social network forms of Christian cooperation and aspiration (Gospel Coalition and Acts 29, for example), more and more American Christians are unfamiliar with the institutional mechanisms for organizing ministry and belonging. What may be especially intriguing for those with ears to be intrigued is that the shelf-life of recent evangelical endeavors in church planting run out of steam and done so almost as fast (as they tell us) as the planet is heating up. Summer is too short for advertisements. But Twitter access is still available for Miles Smith @ivmiles and D. G. Hart @oldlife. Please do not bother Korey Maas. He has an academic department to run.