The Leader Learner Podcast

Send us Fan MailCheck-In:Do you like to be used or second hand items?Big Ideas:Is leadership working? Does leadership training work?Training cannot be done outside of the contextConsuming, Connecting, CreatingStopping our ways of being are habitual is more challenging than we thoughtWe are emotional beingsEmbodiment of the ideas takes longer than a trainingBeing intentional about practicing the ideas we learn in the training - take the pause and creating a support systemSense of personal responsibility of the individuals in trainingThe treadmill and lack of control prevents people from implementingTop management not participating in training themselves - "I am a CXO, so I don't need training." This creates misalignment.Transparency around how we are learningAlienation of true selves when we go to workMeasuring leadershipAttribution errors - when we attribute success to one person, rather than multiple factorsA record doesn't matter when you hire someoneBeing a good leader of yourself, to support other leadersWhat can I do today? Taking personal responsibilityImitation versus borrowingReading books that make you think rather than telling you what to doSometimes the expert is wrong - we can't always take someone's formula and apply it to ourselvesProcess consultation - practicing on the spot Having multiple ongoing touchpoints throughout, or after a training is overVoluntary training or mandatory training? Does participation shift?Resources:Less is More by Jason HickelHBR - Why Training Fails and What to do About It (2016)The Financial Times - Success is more complicated than one exceptional individual (2023)More yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailSPECIAL NOTE: This podcast was originally recorded as part of the "Talent Unleashed" podcast, which never launched because Theresa was too optimistic about her time capabilities. We decided to honor the guests and publish it under this brand instead. Enjoy :) BIG IDEAS:The F*ck Up List - an explicit place for sharing our mistakes and making it transparent and acceptablethe person who is responsible for the f-ck up is the one who adds it to the listchallenge of internalizing the culture of being okay to failsharing failures as a way to help others in the future, so they don't make the same oneNon-judgmental view of failureintention to learn from the mistakes, have a good laugh about our mistakes, create more awareness and transparency aroundentries of the F-up list also include the resolutions, not about pointing fingers or blaming otherstechnological and social structures to prevent mistakes in the futureThe Prime Directive - "Regardless of what we discover, we understand and truly believe that everyone did the best job they could, given what they knew at the time, their skills and abilities, the resources available, and the situation at hand."high level of trust - see best intentions of everyonegreat sense of ownership and freedom - space to make mistake and not be blamedcomfort in challenging because not afraid of mistakes - leads to innovationcriticize the work, not the personlow egos help reduce social conflictrequesting feedback on a regular basis - making it an active processfeedback on open forums - in shared spacemodeling of open feedback from the foundersreducing fears and doubts though mentoringhiring too quickly can erode culturetruly wanting people to grow not all frameworks will fit your needs perfectlyRESOURCES MENTIONED:The Prime Directive HolacracyBIOGRAPHIES:To learn more about Robin and Echometer, head to these links:https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-roschlau/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanmicheldiaz/https://echometerapp.com/en/To learn more about Camilla, head here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/camillamaia/https://www.behance.net/camilla-maiahttps://medium.com/@c.cav.maiaMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailSPECIAL NOTE: This podcast was originally recorded as part of the "Talent Unleashed" podcast, which never launched because Theresa was too optimistic about her time capabilities. We decided to honor the guest(s) and publish it under this brand instead. Enjoy :) Big Ideas:What does it mean to unleash talent? When learning spreads out across multiple areas of your lifeMix of theoretical and practical aspects of learning - using the learningIntrinsic motivation and curiosityHow do organizations support curiosity individually, and across an organization?Learning offered versus learning people wantJust in time learningEncourage curiosity, but don't provide the infrastructure to harness itGig Learning - short term assignments to allow people to learn in different aspects of the organizationsIntersection of harnessing curiosity and unleashing talentChange the narrative around talent - talk about individuals rather than about resourcesHolistic thinking - not about moving people on a chess boardHow best delivering to all people in the organization to satisfy their curiosity?Linking people to their own personal purpose within the organization, not just the organization's purposeIf want to unleash talent, have to be curious about talentUnleashing talent isn't just about promotionsSquiggly careers Everybody's 100% looks differentWhat structures need to be in place to help manager unleash talent on their teams?When people are promoted to managers, but don't want to be a managerUnderstanding that the people you manage are who deliver to the client Managers don't necessarily have the capacity or resources to manage wellGetting to know the individuals well enough that you know what inspires them, what demotivates themWhat makes a poor manager poor? (Micro-management, Magpies, Chasing their own agenda, etc.) Rise in managers who care about individuals Poor management isn't address - people quietly quit or change teams What's your purpose as a manager?Connection between purpose and unleashing talent Breaking down silos in the organization, so people can see where their purpose can be realized, if it isn't alreadyUnderstand ourselves and our own limitations in order to unleash others talentDAVE MILL'S BIO:With over 25 years experience in the learning and development industry. In that time he has facilitated internationally and covered a wide number of subjects from driver training on forklift trucks to facilitating senior leaders to flourish through change.He is currently a senior consultant and SME in the People Development and Effectiveness Centre of Expertise for Kantar (the world’s leading data, insights and consulting company).In his many previous lives he trained as a horticulturist, spent years as a night club and mobile DJ, built a career in retail manager, was a charity and corporate event MC and compère, and is a trained hypnotherapist.He lives in Leamington Spa in the UK with his wife. He has 2 children, is a ‘born-again’ gardener, has recently started writing poetry, still DJs occasionally, loves reading and wants to beMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In:What's better, love or money? Which has more power, love or money? What's more powerful, love or money? Big Ideas:Money as a substitution for timeInfatuation can be a very powerful motivator. Differentiation between moments of happiness and lovePutting love into leadership People going back to work just to see the peoplePower and the complexity of human relationships Power has a negative connotationHaving power is a privilegeYour relationship to power can hold you back, especially if you think of it as negativePower over, power to, power with (Brené Brown)When power is used to "control you" may give you a negative view of power4 Elements of Power as per Ted JenkinsPower of positionPower of expertisePower of connectionsPower of personal authority6 Elements of Power as per French and Raven (1960's source)Formal PowerPower of Consequence (power of sanction and reward)The other 4 are the same as aboveWomen use their power of expertise almost to a faultExtroversion and Introversion are not scientifically backedPower of position/legitimacy is given - we agree to give others that powerCan one have power of position without any of the other powers?Is "authority" the right word? Confusion of power and authorityIs authority, really about charisma?Personal authority and the relationship with trustInformation brokers - knowledge powerInformation is not the same as expertiseConnection between money and powerPoliticians starting with personal authority, which leads to connections, and then to positionWhat are we gaining by giving people power over us?Power over you is like being in a prisonGrow our own sense of power, and continue to have choiceSocietal and group powerSystems changing from outside, not from insideIs power of personal authority, connection, and expertise enough when the power of position is so strong? Resources:Anxious People, by Fredrik BackmanLove as a Business Strategy, by Frank E. Danna and Mohammad F. AnwarThe Work Lab, by MicrosoftHow Women Rise, by Sally Helgeson and Marshall RosenbergRising Together, by Sally HelgesenMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In QuestionIf you were invisible, what's the first thing you would do?What good can you do while being invisible?Big Ideas:4 quadrant matrix - Caring Personally, Challenging DirectlyHigh Care, High Challenge - Radical CandorHigh Care, Low Challenge - Ruinous EmpathyLow Care, High Challenge - Obnoxious AggressionLow Care, Low Challenge - Manipulative InsincerityIndustry dependent  (ie, manufacturing more direct, healthcare less direct)gender dynamics at play - women not wanting to challenge directly for fear of being labelled a "B*tch", men don't want to be seen as weakCan compassion be radical?Compassion using the heart and the mindRadical - getting to the root of thingslay down unilateral power, hold each other accountableRadical means essentialend of command and control with pandemic"I can't believe this trust thing is working." ~CXO of some companyInvite them to give you feedback first and make it a regular part of your day, even in small conversationGet to know your team about their career aspirationsAssumption that people want to advance - Rock Stars versus Super StarsAssess how giving and getting feedbackEbb and flow between being a rock star and super stardomOften only way to grow is to be a manager - what about those who don't want to be a manager? Often only reward the managers financially, not the ICsDifference between learning and growing up the ladderPair the care and the candor all the time Passive, aggressive - assertiveness as the third wayNot falling prey to either orPermission parenting, authoritarian parenting, authoritative parenting - finding the middle groundWe are human and won't always walk the perfect pathBill Gates - "Give me the bad news."Cultural implications around radical candorUse too many disclaimers to soften negative feedback, which takes away the candorRecency and latency biases make us  forget the middle in the "Sandwich" techniqueSo many nuancesNormalize radical candorInvite public criticism as a leader, so you show people you are willing to take itOtherwise, give all radical candor in privateOften more care than candorFear in speaking up and saying thingsWhen impact doesn't match intentionI can't always measure the impact I will have on people Sometimes the way we see the truth can hurt someone, but does that mean we shouldn't say it? Can people take your "Radical Candor"?Inquisitive radical candor - test the waters first?Knowing the right time to give feedback - it will land different in different circumstances"Radical candor is not measured at the mouth of the speaker, but at the ears of the listener." Resources Mentioned:Radical Candor by Kim ScottThe Culture Map by Erin MeyerMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In:What do you think the purpose of life is?Big Ideas:Failing reference modelsShift from the meaning of crisis to the crisis of meaningWhat's the meaning of work?Reference models on how to live together (the Greek pantheon, organized religion, science, governments)Does work give us meaning?When we get the message that meaning at work is overratedEffort in making communityIn the past, work didn't need meaning because we got meaning elsewhereAre organizations built to provide meaning to employees?Cultural aspect of meaning makingPeople resigning because looking for meaningDomains that provide meaning and purpose - autonomy and relatednessPeople turning toward personal purpose because not finding it at workPersonal development focused on autonomousDeriving meaning from volunteer workVolunteering because it's heart-felt or because it's duty (someone told me to)When your work touches your heart, do you need to volunteer to find meaning?Universal income - will people still work?If we don't want people to leave their work, people need to feel connected to their work and connected to the people they work withWho's responsible for the meaning?Meaning is so personal Individual why supporting the team shyCompanies giving time and space for employees for meaning-makingPeople want something more than just salarySocial, financial, and ecological aspects of meaning - measuring eachHow are companies measuring social and ecological impact dimensions?Is it a company's responsibility to provide meaning? Peace when you find meaningThe journey to create meaning is part of the processMeaning as an evolutionary processResources Mentioned:Healing Circles GlobalLandmark EducationFind Your Why by Simon SinekBeyond Zero documentaryMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In:If you had the whole world's attention for 30 seconds, what would you say or do?Big Ideas:Hypocrisy and leadershipImmorality in leadershipDo leaders have to be good people?We think of leadership as for the good of the peopleWhat tactics are immoral leaders using to get people to follow them?Leadership as a pipeline - a relationship between peopleHow you position yourself in respect to other peopleLeadership can be about how you hook and attract themCharisma as a tool to attract people"Othering" of people - politicians using this tactic to gain followersCommonality and the group to bring people togetherUsing fear with your own people to hold themTotalitarianism versus PopulismThe leadership purpose is different from the toolsInverse charisma - how you draw people in based on how you listen to them, not how you talkCharisma as a source of power - do people give you charisma?Shifting leadership depending on our audience - some people need to be listened to, some people need to be inspiredAdaptive or situational leadershipLeading from the front, not the backCultural aspects of leadershipOpen and closed ways of leadershipOur own biases shift how we perceive a leader as good/badLeaders who are reassuring and are perceived as "strong" - people looking to leaders for strengthLeaders are leaders because they help other people not feel afraidIdea that leadership starts from withinPeople wanting to be told what to do and how to thinkPower over versus power with/power toWhat do you do when you want to offer people power, and they don't want it?Freedom is hard. Ignorance is bliss.Do people really want autonomy?Are we participants in the creation of immoral leadership?Amoral leadership - leadership without moralityImmorality creates an us/them Should leadership be moral?Trust is a psychological mechanism, value is what you think is importantCan we try NOT to use the moral lens when talking about leadership?Pragmatism versus moralityTake morality off the table and listen for their valuesHow we embody values can look differentHow stay on debate without arguingPower in having a structured debate with a strong moderatorDebating from the opposite side of your beliefsConstructive conflict that leads to innovation and creativityDisagreement isn't the same as conflictLeadership is when you stay outside of our "animal self" - you stay above the fray"People are hard to hate close up. Move in." Easy for us to form opinions about other people without really knowing themChange the conditions by which you measure people and you can say anyone is anythingDoes a leader need to go beyond morality?Easy to other people for othering othersValues as a factor in conflict because of it's rigidityGlobalization has led to value conflictResources Mentioned:The Human LibraryMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In: Share an experience when you felt great as part of a long-distance team, or a team in general.Big Ideas:Is virtual the right word?Long distance, remote, or virtual - Are they interchangeable?Long distance being more neutralVirtual teams used to be for individuals meeting for a certain project, where not everyone worked for the same bossWho's the hub for all the spokes?Who owns the team? Compliance versus ownershipAll teams have a culture, but no one person owns the culture, it's the responsibility of everyone on the teamProximity allows us to "read" cues more easily Beyond 40-50 feet level of engagement dropsDistance and availability are both factorsVirtual reduces spontaneous interactionsProximity bias - asking people who are closerUs/them them in hybrid settingsSettling for lowest common denominator when accomodating remote?What's the best experience for the team?Long distance reveals the true team dynamics - especially the "bad" onesGood leadership systems work across all types of disruptionsLeadership first, location secondKeeping hours of your manager when you are in a different time zoneManaging for activity versus productivityIf you have an empowered, trusted team, where they do that doesn't matterThere are some organizations where proximity mattersCan the work be done no matter where people are?Every annoying policy was created because of one person or incidentPolicies can create discrepanciesPilot before policy2/3 of our workplace communication takes place in writing - we don't do it very wellWhat role does time (when we work) play in the culture we want?Rather than having conversations with people, managers create policiesManaging to the exceptionDo the rules of the company demonstrate trust?What is the IT of culture?Communication, collaboration and culture - the little thingsDoes everything have to be a meeting?Shift in how our relationships have developed over time - more and more onlineHaving 1:1 conversations with teams, even onlineBe wary of transactional communication because they don't build relationshipsWhat works in person ? Translate that intentionally to online spacesResources:The Long Distance Leader by Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne TurmelThe Long Distance Teammate  by Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne TurmelThe Long Distance Team by Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne TurmelVirtual Not Distance PodcastWayne Turmel Bio:For 25 years, Wayne Turmel has been obsessed with how people communicate—or don’t—at work. He is an internationally recognized expert in remote work and the evolving workplace who is the author of 15 books and has spoken around the world. He is best known for the Long Distance Workplace books: The Long Distance Team, Long Distance Teammate and The Long-Distance Leader. Originally from Canada, he now lives and works in Las Vegas. Marshall Goldsmith has called him “one of the unique voices in Leadership.”LinkedinMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In:What is one key trait that makes successful people successful?Big Ideas:Thinking better with other people"We think best when we think socially." Social constructivism Group think -- we let loyalty take the place of our thinkingThink for yourself, before you think with othersUse tools/methods to help people think betterThink first, share second - Alone TogetherWhen the first person anchors the rest of the sharingSpeaking last as a managerDivergent thinking before convergent thinkingGiving ideas space - go into a room together to define the problem, brainstorm alone, then back together with all the ideasDiverging first as not being naturalPush for convenience and efficiency which gets in the way of the social way of thinkingCheck-In is seen as a waste of time, yet it creates a synchronization at the beginning of a meetingHow to diverge when we don't feel psychologically safeWhat creates groupiness? Learn together, Train together, Feeling together, Engage in rituals together, Synchronicity (body, meals)Lost the sense of "groupiness" at workRole-playing games - must let everyone's roles play outHaving structure for debating with one another can make it funDisagreement and conflict aren't synonymous - disagreement is about ideas, conflict is personalizedLeaders as moderators for healthy disagreementDo managers need to be trained in running meeting design, moderation, etc?Starting meetings with music?Different neural pathways are used when learning versus when teachingThe jigsaw method of teaching - learn a small part and then teach it to othersMust learn to think for yourself through reflection timeThe more roots something has, the more powerfulOffloading information by making it visual, talking about it, journalingBusy-ness isn't always productive Foster different ways of thinking about things - using objectsThe importance of evaluating others' ideas not just expand on your own. Arguing across cultures - different cultures approach it differentlyArguing as not being seen as team-playingCreating a system for disagreement combined psychological safetyProductive disagreement versus unproductive conflictResources:The Extended Mind by Annie Murphy PaulThe Culture Map by Erin MeyerMore yummy content on leaderlearner.fm

Send us Fan MailCheck-In Question:Share a memorable meeting experience.Big Ideas:Rituals in meetingsClear structures in meetings get to a resultHow we feel in a meeting mattersPower dynamics in meetingsA common ritual - rotating "leadership" of the meetingRituals can vary depending on the type of organization and their values and the spirit of what you are doingCheck-ins would be great in every organization, but the questions will changeCheck-ins can set the tone of the entire meetingNot all groups need to connect and build trust togetherAirport book advice - not all advice is right for youTailor the ritual to the contextLevels of maturity in the ways that people gatherEach leader has to decide how they want to meetMeetings both reflect and create our cultureStopping all meetings isn't the answerThe courage to step up and change the meeting culture in an organizationCreating intentionality in your meetings16 core types of meetings within an organizationWhat is the value/opportunity in the meeting?Every time we have a conversation with someone, it's a meetingPutting people into a room to solve a problem doesn't workHaving an intention and outline is usually all we need to have a great meetingGreat practice - Not calling meetings "meetings" - give them a specific name to the purposeWhat impacts meetings are hard to countCan other work exist around all the meetings that are recommended?Meeting load increases in any crisisAsynchronous communication can reduce the needed meeting timeMeeting Free Fridays - time block ritualsMeeting time depends on many factors - human attention spansTrue collaboration takes longerTime box status reporting - async if possibleResources:Lucid MeetingsThe Four Agreements  by Don Miguel RuizWhere the Action Is: The Meetings that Make or Break Your Organization16 Types of MeetingsMeeting Guides and TemplatesThe Art of Gathering  by Priya ParkerGetting to Yes by William UryNever Split the Difference by Chris VossNew Rules for Work Elise Keith Bio: J. Elise Keith is the founder and CEO of Lucid Meetings, a meeting innovation company dedicated to making it easy for teams to run successful meetings every day. In 2020, Lucid Meetings was recognized as one of the top 10 global influencer brands on the topic of remote work and virtual meetings.In 2023, Elise and David Mastronardi from the Gamestorming Group joined forces to host the New Rules for Work experiment, a four-part program seeking reliably excellent ways to unleash team creativity in meetings.Elise is the author of Where the Action Is: The Meetings That Make or Break Your Organization .More yummy content on leaderlearner.fm