Talking Tokens

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Michael Tannenbaum, CEO of Figure, about how the company processes over $1 billion in mortgages monthly and why it went public in 2025. Michael, who was first employee at Brex and chief revenue officer at SoFi before joining Figure in 2024, explains why the company tokenized its own stock first to prove the model works before approaching other issuers.He walks through Figure's 100% year-over-year growth with 50% margins by using blockchain tech to cut mortgage origination costs, why tokenization is now part of the buying criteria for capital markets, and the difference between creating liquidity versus just tokenizing assets. The conversation covers the Provenance blockchain, OPEN launch and demand, its DeFi marketplace, and why private credit needs institutional owners for long-term assets rather than retail investors.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:17) Career path: SoFi chief revenue officer, first employee at Brex, now Figure CEO(03:21) Why Michael bet on Brex(05:09) Reconnecting with Mike Cagney on Figure(08:41) His framework for building through crypto and fintech cycles(10:34) Figure's IPO timing and being publicly traded while building onchain markets(15:56) Why Figure tokenized its own stock first before approaching other companies(18:35) Liquidity in tokenization: just because you tokenize doesn't mean it's liquid(22:00) Launching with Figure’s own inventory to avoid guinea pig problem(23:26) What it means to have “hair on fire” problems(25:37) When to emphasize blockchain benefits versus meeting skeptics where they are(27:26) Breaking the rule of 40: 100% growth with 50% margins using blockchain technology(28:27) Revenue growth: 100% year-over-year across mortgages, stablecoins, and DeFi marketplace(33:11) Capital markets highway thesis: blockchain infrastructure not SaaS as next fintech model(46:26) Watching private credit nervousness around retail investor redemptionsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Parker Edwards, partner at Framework Ventures, about deploying a $2.5 billion mandate to bring institutional-grade yield onchain through Obex, a Sky-focused incubator. Parker announces the first cohort where it’s deploying $1 billion across eight companies including Maple, Centrifuge, Securitize, River, and Better Home & Finance, spanning areas like structured credit, mortgages, energy, and AI infrastructure.He explains why real-world assets are finally reaching institutional scale, with players like Apollo and BlackRock actively participating. The conversation covers why established companies with deep domain expertise are better positioned to scale with Obex than early-stage startups, how Sky grew to $11.5 billion in USDS stablecoin supply, and the plan to hit $20 billion by 2026.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro with Parker Edwards, partner at Framework Ventures(00:25) What is Obex and its $2.5 billion mandate to deploy capital into Sky ecosystem(01:09) Sky's growth to $11.5 billion in stablecoin supply as third largest stablecoin(02:06) Why Framework Ventures is administering the Obex incubator(02:52) First cohort: Maple, USD.ai, Centrifuge, Securitize, River, Better, and others deploying $1 billion(04:12) Why it chose more established players over early-stage startups for day-one scale(06:06) State of RWAs: institutional-grade founders with deep domain expertise entering the space(08:03) Asset manager mandates: structured credit, private credit, energy, and AI infrastructure(10:05) Why Better Home & Finance chose to build on Sky for mortgage tokenization(13:33) Real cash-flowing assets onchain without artificial yield incentives(15:15) How DeFi is competing with banks and credit funds on quality assets(17:13) Apollo and BlackRock participating onchain(20:16) Sky's recent $435 million revenue and $20 billion stablecoin target by end of 2026(22:20) Why USDS won't replace USDC or USDT but serves different institutional roles(27:26) Final adviceESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Dan Mottice, head of stablecoins at Modern Treasury and founder of Beam, brings Visa payments experience to the stablecoin world. He discusses why getting money on and off blockchains remains hard. He explores 24/7 liquidity, stablecoin clearinghouses, where value sits in the payments stack, and what stablecoin banks must match to reach mainstream users.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Muneeb Ali, founder of Stacks, about navigating his fourth bear market and why this one feels different as AI could potentially offer higher growth than crypto for the first time. Muneeb explains why quantum computing poses a real threat to Bitcoin even before quantum computers exist, and why some Bitcoin hardliners refuse to acknowledge the problem.He walks through the evolution of Bitcoin DeFi from peak excitement in 2024 to maturation in 2025, why BTC yield has product-market fit, and how Stacks is launching self-custodial Bitcoin staking with 3-7% yields. The conversation covers its $400M+ in BTC rewards already paid out, why institutions want Bitcoin-denominated returns and why Bitcoin maturing with yield capabilities will help traditional banks offer it to clients even if hardliners don't like BlackRock's involvement.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:24) How his 4th bear market feels different with AI competing with crypto(04:47) Quantum computing threat to Bitcoin and why hardliners won't acknowledge it(07:04) Bitcoin's path to quantum resistance(12:26) What happens to Satoshi's Bitcoin and lost coins in quantum future(14:44) Bitcoin to $1M by 2030: conviction despite slower appreciation rates(17:27) Bitcoin DeFi evolution from 2024 to 2025(21:06) Bitcoin collateral: yield and lending product-market fit(28:55) Why institutions want BTC-denominated yields(31:10) What changed culturally to make Bitcoin staking acceptable to holders(34:55) Self-custodial Bitcoin staking: earn 3-7% with BTC in your hardware walletESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

Jonathan Han, CEO of Euler Finance and former Bridgewater macro researcher, leads DeFi lending and institutional tokenization. He discusses tokenized real-world assets and stocks as collateral, how compliant DS tokens enable permissioned lending markets, the shift from permissionless protocols to institutional-grade products, and the role of fixed rates, compliance, and AI agents in scaling on-chain credit.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Hart Lambur, co-founder of Across Protocol and UMA, in two segments: breaking news about Across's token-to-equity proposal and a conversation from ETH Denver. Hart first unveils the Bridge Across proposal, a first-of-its-kind "token buyout" where, if approved, ACX holders can exchange tokens for equity in a new C Corp at 1:1 ratio or redeem for USDC. He explains why the DAO structure has become a bottleneck as institutional demand grows, why long tail tokens are undervalued, how enterprise partners need enforceable contracts DAOs can't provide, and addresses concerns around US security law restrictions before the two-week community discussion period.The ETH Denver segment covers why competition from Stripe's Tempo and Circle's Arc will push Ethereum into "war mode" and drive innovation, the evolution of the Open Intents framework and two-second bridging experiences, how the L2 thesis didn't stick while EVM architecture remains strong, whether stablecoins will be consumer-facing or backend infrastructure for fintechs, the power law distribution of stablecoins as a key competition metric, and why AI agent-to-agent payments are a natural fit for crypto rails.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:54) The Bridge Across proposal for token-to-equity exchange or USDC buyout options(02:40) Why DAOs can't sign enterprise contracts and long tail tokens are undervalued(08:52) Across Protocol maintaining decentralized governance and non-custodial protections(10:46) What happens next: two-week discussion period before snapshot vote(14:13) Intro to ETH Denver conversation(15:27) Energy in bear markets: focus on building over hype and token prices(16:05) Ethereum going into "war mode" with competition from Tempo and Arc(17:22) How blockchain fragmentation benefits Across while challenging user experience(18:23) Open Intents framework's evolution since launch(20:18) L2 thesis not sticking as expected, but EVM architecture remains strong(24:33) Future of blockchain interoperability and solving fragmentation for users(29:12) Stablecoins as consumer products versus backend fintech infrastructure(34:48) How Robinhood and Stripe are approaching stablecoin adoption differently(38:23) Power law distribution of stablecoins as key metric for competition(42:28) AI agents and agent-to-agent payments as natural crypto use case(43:32) Final advice: stay the course through bear marketsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Scott Dykstra, co-founder and CTO of Space and Time, about how the crypto market has evolved from the 2021 NFT craze to the 2026 institutional era. Scott explains why almost every bank is now writing smart contracts, how Space and Time helps financial institutions connect offchain data to onchain markets, and why blockchains are fundamentally better transactional databases than traditional systems like Oracle.He walks through the shift from early crypto startups to mature DeFi protocols to enterprise clients, how banks are building pilots for stablecoins and tokenizing real-world assets, and why the Wells Fargo data manipulation case proves the need for verifiable compute. The conversation covers Space and Time's Proof of SQL technology, how the company enables stablecoin yields institutions' need for offchain data, and why AI agents buying their own services with stablecoins may be the next frontier for crypto adoption.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:31) How WisdomTree defines tokenization as recordkeeping technology(04:16) Growth from $30M to $770M in tokenized assets within one year(06:13) Three use cases: stablecoin reserves, treasury management, and DeFi collateral(08:01) Talking to Aave and Morpho about integrating tokenized funds as collateral(09:17) Why its tokenized money market fund could become WisdomTree's largest fund overall(10:17) SEC approval for 24/7 trading and instant settlement: the big unlock(13:11) Why 24/7 trading only works with tokenized funds, not traditional infrastructure(16:02) DeFi and TradFi convergence: partnership not competition(18:28) Customer journey: wallet-first users, not brokerage account holders(27:42) Why liquid assets benefit more from tokenization than illiquid real estateESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Will Peck, head of digital assets at WisdomTree, about the firm's explosive growth in tokenized real-world assets from $30 million to $770 million and its recent SEC approval for 24/7 trading and instant settlement. Will explains how WisdomTree's tokenized money market fund serves three key use cases:, stablecoin reserve management, crypto-native treasury management, and DeFi collateral and why the company believes this fund could become their largest across the entire business.He walks through the SEC exemptive order that unlocks nonstop trading, how tokenization brings instant settlement that traditional recordkeeping cannot replicate, and why WisdomTree focuses on liquid assets like treasuries rather than illiquid real estate. The conversation covers WisdomTree Prime's retail app and WisdomTree Connect's institutional platform, potential partnerships with DeFi protocols, why Europe presents unique regulatory complexity and strong opportunity, and the two critical unlocks needed for tokenization to scale.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:31) How WisdomTree defines tokenization as recordkeeping technology(04:16) Growth from $30M to $770M in tokenized assets within one year(06:13) Three use cases: stablecoin reserves, treasury management, and DeFi collateral(08:01) Talking to Aave and Morpho about integrating tokenized funds as collateral(09:17) Why its tokenized money market fund could become WisdomTree's largest fund overall(10:17) SEC approval for 24/7 trading and instant settlement: the big unlock(13:11) Why 24/7 trading only works with tokenized funds, not traditional infrastructure(16:02) DeFi and TradFi convergence: partnership not competition(18:28) Customer journey: wallet-first users, not brokerage account holders(27:42) Why liquid assets benefit more from tokenization than illiquid real estateESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Diogo Mónica, general partner at Haun Ventures, executive chairman and co-founder of Anchorage Digital, and board member of Erebor. Diogo explains how stablecoins, tokenized equities, and generative finance are evolving and why Haun Ventures invested in Palmer Luckey's Erebor Bank, which received the first national bank charter under the second Trump administration.He walks through why Erebor raised $635 million in committed capital to serve AI, crypto, and defense, how OCC-chartered banks differ from fintech apps that operate through partner banks, and why getting a proper federal charter matters for building trust. The conversation covers the founding team's expertise spanning Oculus, Anduril, Circle, and compliance backgrounds, how Erebor secured its charter in under eight months, and why this marks a shift toward more crypto-friendly banking regulation.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:44) Why institutions are here but crypto tokens aren't going up(03:23) Generative finance: turning language directly into financial products with AI(05:31) Why Haun Ventures invested in Erebor, Palmer Luckey's new bank(09:10) How Erebor secured its OCC charter in under eight months(12:22) What an OCC charter means and why it matters for crypto banking(14:08) How Erebor differs from fintechs like Mercury that aren't actual banks(17:43) The future of banking: will new rails beat old incumbents(19:24) Building trust in crypto banking after historical de-banking experiences(21:07) The challenge of opening bank accounts with "crypto" in company names(22:07) Behind Erebor's founding teamESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Mason Nystrom, partner at Pantera Capital who hosts the Stateful podcast, and Daniel Marin, CEO of Nexus, about the state of crypto venture capital, the consolidation phase happening across markets, and what it takes to launch a blockchain in 2026. Mason explains why 2025 saw record venture dollars deployed into fewer deals, signaling maturation and companies finding product-market fit, while Daniel shares insights from building Nexus from a team of 10 to launching a specialized L1 blockchain focused on verifiable finance.They discuss how cycles of consolidation lead to expansion, why specialization beats general-purpose blockchains, the return to fundamentals with revenue-generating protocols, and how stablecoins and perpetual exchanges are driving the shift toward verifiable finance. The conversation covers Nexus' partnership with M0 for its native stablecoin, the future intersection of permissionless systems and walled gardens, what characterizes a winner in crypto, and final advice to think independently and build conviction during uncertain markets.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:27) Why 2025 was an era of consolidation with record VC dollars into fewer deals(03:20) Cycles of consolidation and expansion across crypto and AI markets(04:05) Pantera as investor in Nexus' Series A(04:39) What's changed for Nexus since raising: from 10 people to launching mainnet(05:47) Announcing Nexus Exchange and USDX stablecoin partnership with M0(06:59) Return to fundamentals and revenue-generating protocols driving the market(09:16) Why specialization beats general-purpose blockchains(13:53) Verifiable finance and building purpose-built L1s for financial applications(21:39) How permissionless systems and walled gardens will coexist(28:13) What characterizes a winner in crypto: urgency and relentless building(32:15) Final advice: think independently and build conviction during uncertaintyYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.