The Ruffian

Ever since I wrote a book about the trait of curiosity I’ve taken an interest in the science of learning and education. In the book, I criticised the popular idea that teaching children facts and knowledge somehow gets in the way of their curiosity and creativity. All evidence points in the opposite direction. And yet a thousand Ted Talks have been launched on the idea that we should dispense with fact-based curricula, with instructional teaching, with learning by rote, with classrooms of kids sitting in rows, and so on. Such practices are said to be relics of the industrial age which must to swept away so that kids can follow their curiosity, wherever it takes them.This remarkably seductive narrative is almost completely unsupported by evidence - either the evidence of what works in school systems around the world, or evidence from cognitive science. It persists because it taps into some old and potent myths about learning.I recently read a new book called Instructional Illusions which tackles some of these myths head on. I’m delighted to have one of the book’s authors, Carl Hendrick, on the pod. Carl began his career as an English teacher in an inner city London school, before moving into education research. He is a professor at Academica University of Applied Sciences in Amsterdam where he leads research projects that bridge cognitive science, educational psychology, and classroom practice.We talk about what so many ‘education experts’ get wrong; about why they consistently underestimate the importance of hard work and focused learning; why intrinsic curiosity is overrated; why having fun in the classroom shouldn’t be confused with actual learning, and lots more. I hope you enjoy our conversation (and maybe learn something). This one is for paid subscribers only. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ian-leslie.com/subscribe

James Marriott, a journalist and critic at The Times, shares his insights on this year's reading landscape. He highlights the compelling influence of John Carey’s work and explores the depth of Karen Armstrong's convent memoir. The conversation shifts to gripping biographies, contrasting Stalin and Hitler, and reflects on novels that truly engage readers. They touch on the neuroscience of reading and recommend immersive reads that resonate with different eras. Expect thoughtful reflections perfect for last-minute gift ideas!

“It is a sunny Sunday in June and I am sitting in a Porsche with a man I recently matched with on Bumble, two Spanish sighthounds, an intersex DJ and Curtis Yarvin. “Let’s go Team Fascist!” shouts my match as he pulls away from the grand Georgian terrace in Pimlico where Yarvin has spent the morning chatting about Austrian economics with 86-year-old crossbench peer and Keynes biographer Lord Skidelsky.”This is how Jemima Kelly’s recent Financial Times longread opens and it only gets crazier after that. The last time Jemima came on the show she talked about her visit to Mar-a-Lago, court of the then ex-president, Donald Trump. After reading her entertaining account of a garden party thrown by the UK branch of the Very Online Right, in honour of Curtis Yarvin (J.D. Vance’s pet intellectual), I knew had to have her back. Jemima is a brilliant storyteller and a shrewd judge of character. In this conversation she offers an eye-popping account of the party along with acute insight into the nature of this increasingly influential political movement.In Part Two, which will be released shortly, for paid subscribers only, I ask Jemima what it’s like to report stories in which she’s surrounded by weird people with unsavoury views. How does she get them to reveal so much to her, while maintaining her integrity? Don’t miss this one! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ian-leslie.com/subscribe

In this episode of The Ruffian’s podcast we ask whether the price of using increasingly smart machines is increasingly stupid humans. My guest is Daisy Christodoulou, director of education at No More Marking, and my favourite thinker on learning and education.Daisy recently wrote a Substack post asking whether we live in a ‘stupidogenic society’ - just as it’s said that we live in an ‘obesogenic environment’ - one that tends to cause stupidity. She argues that our use of technology to substitute for cognitive skills has got to the point where human intelligence is in decline, a claim she supports with evidence. Daisy is no Luddite. She works for an edtech company. She acknowledges that modern technologies are incredibly useful, indeed indispensable. But she’s interested in the trade-offs we’re making between utility and intelligence, and in what the optimal point might be. She also gives her view on how schools should adapt to this environment.I hope you enjoy our excellent, somewhat intelligent conversation, which is available on all the usual podcast platforms. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ian-leslie.com/subscribe

Britain is in a depression. Not an economic one - we're still growing, albeit slowly - but a cultural and political one. We are running low on optimism, self-esteem and, most dangerously, on hope - on the sense that we can fix things.Voters have become deeply cynical about the political class; support for both main parties has collapsed. They’re turning to Reform, not necessarily because they believe Nigel Farage will fix anything, but because he captures the almost nihilistic mood. How can Britain get out of this moment? To put it another way, how can it get happy again? Broadly speaking, there are two paths out of here, which in reality have to be travelled at the same time. The first is economic growth. But higher growth won't come unless we make progress down a second path - a cultural and psychological one. We need people to believe that they can improve things - improve their lives, their communities, their country. One way of putting this is that we need a more “high agency” culture. That's what I'm going to discuss with returning guest James Kanagasooriam, chief research officer at FocalData. James is a pollster, and one of the most brilliant political and cultural analysts around. He’s just completed a major research project on agency among British voters. Agency is a concept that’s become popular in Silicon Valley (James credits Cate Hall, the poker player, businesswoman and writer, for shaping his thinking on it). It’s essentially about believing you can make things happen. James has created a way to measure it at scale, and the results are fascinating. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ian-leslie.com/subscribe

In this engaging discussion, Max Bennett, author of *A Brief History of Intelligence* and former AI entrepreneur, shares his insights on the evolution of human intelligence. He dives into the differences in learning between humans and AIs, emphasizing the vital role of reinforcement learning. Bennett explores how imagination arose from the neocortex and its impact on future planning. He also contrasts the curiosity of humans with the more passive nature of large language models, shedding light on how language enhances collaboration and learning.

Helen Thompson, a political economy professor at Cambridge University, discusses Britain's looming fiscal crisis. She reveals the reasons for the urgent economic concerns and predicts potentially drastic changes ahead. The conversation highlights the complexities of current monetary policies and their historical parallels, particularly how past crises can inform future decisions. Thompson warns that the government's attempts to avert disaster may ultimately be futile, pushing Britain toward a necessary recalibration of its economic priorities.

Are our new AI overlords tools intelligent in the same way humans are? Is an AI agent truly, well agentic? Does it have a mind of its own, so to speak? Might it just decide to destroy us? Or is this completely the wrong way to think about it?In this episode I get into these questions with Professor Alison Gopnik, professor of psychology and affiliate professor of philosophy at UC Berkeley, where she's also a member of the AI Research Group.As many of you will know, Alison is a brilliant and profound thinker on cognition, innovation, and learning. She bridges the worlds of developmental psychology, philosophy, and technology. Her superb books on the science of childhood learning were a big influence on my own book about curiosity..I invited Alison on to discuss a recent paper she co-authored which argues that AI is not an ‘agent’ but a ‘cultural technology’ like the library or the printing press - just the latest in our long history of finding new ways to organise and transmit human information at scale. We discuss that and much else besides. This was so much fun to record. Alison gives us a scintillating and witty tour of her thinking about thinking; human and machine. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ian-leslie.com/subscribe

Jasmine Sun, a tech journalist and thinker from San Francisco, shares her insights on how AI is reshaping writing and journalism. She discusses the irreplaceable qualities of human creativity and voice that AI can't replicate. Jasmine reflects on her transition from tech at Substack to freelance journalism, emphasizing the evolving landscape of the field. The conversation also delves into the risks of losing authenticity when relying on machine-generated content, and the importance of maintaining a personal style amidst digital distractions.

James Marriott, a Times columnist and Substack writer, dives into the provocative question of whether AI tools like ChatGPT could threaten the future of human writers. He shares fascinating insights from his own experiments with AI-generated poetry and literary criticism. The discussion highlights AI’s impressive mimicry of style while addressing its limitations in genuine depth and emotion. Marriott emphasizes the irreplaceable value of personal expression in writing, raising critical thoughts about authorship and the evolving landscape of literature.