

Working Capital Commercial Real Estate
Jesse Fragale
Working Capital features in-depth conversations with guests from a variety of areas in real estate, economics, education, investment and more. Host Jesse Fragale and guests discuss information about real estate investing that will actually help the average aspiring investor take the steps necessary to start and grow their real estate business.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jun 16, 2022 • 33min
Real Estate Syndication, Scaling and Systems with Mark McGuire | EP108
Mark McGuire is a Chief Investment Officer, Hearthfire Holdings. in 2017 he started to build a real estate business. He hired and fired agents, learned from his mistakes, and then re-hired all over again with a new perspective. Since 2013, Mark and his team have brokered more than 300 homes with a total sales volume exceeding $83M. They have also raised over 15 million in capital for Hearthfire. Mark’s biggest passion is wealth building and investing. He is a limited partner in 12 syndications, ranging from multifamily to industrial, hospitality to self-storage. He has invested in multiple private companies in the biotech, finance, and AI spaces. In addition, he currently owns 20 residential units in various real estate partnerships and oversees the management of 130 residential units his family owns. Mark has also executed multiple 1031 exchanges. He’s seen up-markets and down-markets and discovered opportunities in both. In this episode we talked about: * Mark’s Bio & Background * Building his Career in Real Estate * Limited Partnership Role * Real Estate Deals Outlook: the best Takeaways from Investors * Red Flags while looking for LP & GP * Multifamily Investments * Mark’s Focus in Real Estate Right Now * Economic Outlook 2022-2023 * Mentorship, Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: Slicing Pie: Funding Your Company Without Funds https://hfirecapital.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/investingwithmark/ Transcription: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time Jesse (23s): This is Jessica forgotten and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My guest today is Mark McGuire. He's the C I O of Herth capital. He's a full-time real estate investor and operator that's when mark at the time plunge into real estate sales, after running hard on his own for three years, working 80 to 100 hours a week, mark realized he needed help. He transitioned his real estate practice to Keller Williams in 2017 to learn how to build a real estate business. He hired and fired agents learn from his mistakes and then rehired them all over again. Since 2013, mark and his team have brokered more than 300 homes with a total sales volume exceeding 83 million. They've also raised over 50 million capital for her fire, mark, you and I were just talking before we want to get into a lot of what you're doing now, which sounds like general partner and sponsoring deals. First of all, welcome aboard. Mark (1m 13s): Thanks for having me Jesse excited. Jesse (1m 15s): Yeah, I really appreciate it. So lots to talk about here. You've had a pretty, a pretty interesting background in terms of where you started out in your career and what you're doing today. And I want to get into for listeners the different asset classes that you're working with, but before we do that, why don't you take us back to kind of where you got into real estate? How that your story unfolded at the beginning? Mark (1m 39s): Yeah, so real estate was something that was in my family. You know, I tried to go the college route net that really didn't align with my way of being a really I learned hands-on and I could, I could do the school thing, but

Jun 9, 2022 • 54min
Commercial Real Estate Investment Strategies with Jesse Fragale (Guest Appearance) | EP107
Capitalizing on student rental opportunity In this Episode You’ll Learn: -Jesse’s Real Estate investing bio -How COVID has changed Real Estate investing strategies. -Handling risk and uncertainty. -Investing in population centers like Toronto. -Learning, refining, and expanding on strategies that work. Transcription: Speaker 0 (0s): Hello listeners. It's your host, Jesse for galley. First of all, want to say thank you to everybody that continues to listen. We broke a hundred a little while ago, and I really, really am encouraged by the support and any questions that listeners have. You can always reach out to me and we can create a, just ask Jesse episode for those episodes. Anyways, I thought we'd do something a little bit different today. I was recently a guest on a very good podcast, breakthrough real estate, investing podcasts. If you don't know them, check them out. They started podcasting back when Joe Rogan was doing his podcast out of his old house in that dark basement. So they've been around for a long time, check them out. It's great for people that are getting into real estate investing, or if you're a seasoned vet and you just want to up your game. So without further ado, my episode with breakthrough. Speaker 2 (1m 4s): Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for joining us again. We are really happy to have you with us today for another exciting episode, full of, you know, chock full of knowledge and real estate stuff. So excited to get to that. And as always with me here again is Sandy McKay. How are you Sandy? Speaker 3 (1m 24s): Fantastic Rob, because I had to be here again and you know, we're, we're getting into some interesting real estate stuff in the market and the world. So I think we'll have a good show discussing all sorts of stuff around that. Speaker 2 (1m 36s): Yeah, we are. Things are changing, man. They are changing a little bit. So we do have some exciting updates. It's not just like the market's going up, the market's going up. And it was a little bit of a volatility there. So we can discuss that in a little bit, but everybody listening should go over to our website, breakthrough REI, podcasts.ca. They can get all of our past episodes from there. They can interact with our guests through the show notes and, and, and get access to any, any, you know, materials that our guests have, have left for us on there. So breakthrough REI, podcast.ca you can also get our free gift. Speaker 3 (2m 18s): Yeah. The ultimate strategy for building wealth through real estates. And of course, like, you all know you get on our email list when you do that and you will hear, but everything else we got going on and all the updates, all the, all the maybe events we've got coming up, webinars, whatever we, whatever we're putting out there, you will hear about it and never miss on an episode. Speaker 2 (2m 37s): And please go over to iTunes and leave us a rating review. You guys know that helps it. Doesn't take too long, go over there and tell us what you think. Leave us a five-star review that always helps. And more people will be able to hear the show more people. When they go on search real estate, investing podcasts, they'll ours will pop up and there'll be able to hear all of our past guests and all the info that we shared over the years, over the past eight years or Sandy going on eight years now. So we're seeing program we're still here, we're still going strong and we're still excited. Every single time we get behind these microphones. So, so yeah, listening. Speaker 3 (3m 19s): Okay. Keep listening, keep growing. I think we're a, you know, it's fun. We're doing, we've, we've gotten into lots of transitions over eight years in different different ways and you know, we're ramping up if nothing else r

Jun 2, 2022 • 39min
Real Estate, Climate Change and Institutional Capital with Jim Clayton | EP106
Jim Clayton is the Director and Timothy R. Price Chair at the Brookfield Centre in the Schulich School of Business at York University in Toronto. In this episode we talked about: Jim’s Bio & Background Real Estate Education Evolution Climate Risk and the Opportunity for Real Estate Dealing with Tax & Climate The Courses Jim Teaches in the Schulich School Leadership in Real Estate Jim’s View on Current Real Estate Environment Resources Useful links: Adam Grant “Think Again” The surprising habits of original thinkers | Adam Grant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxbCHn6gE3U https://schulich.yorku.ca/faculty/jim-clayton/ shorturl.at/vDFGI Transcription: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Jesse (23s): Ladies and gentlemen, my name's Jess for galley, and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My special guest today is Jim Clayton. Jim is the director and Timothy our price chair at the Brookfield center and real estate and infrastructure. And that is at the Schulich school of business here in Toronto, Canada. And that is at York university. Jim, how are you doing today? Jim (45s): I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me Jesse. And that was a big mouthful. Jesse (48s): Yeah, we thought we'd, we'd like, we've talked about before the show, we'd kind of break it down because you've got quite an extensive background in real estate. And before I start a York university at the Schulich school of business, how long have you been at that post? Jim (1m 3s): I've been here just over four years. I came in 2018 and partly because Schulich school received some funding to create the Brookfield center in both real estate and infrastructure, which is kind of unique. And also it was just kind of time to come home. I grew up in Toronto, moved all the way till my mother-in-law. I was taking her daughter in 1988 away for a one-year master's to UBC and 30 years later, we moved back after 20 of those in the states. Jesse (1m 36s): That's fantastic. That's another, a really good school for real estate as well. University of British Columbia is program there it's solder solder school of business. If I have that correct. Jim (1m 46s): You got it. It was really the only place one could kind of end up if you wanted a graduate education in real estate at that time, Jesse (1m 54s): Right on. Well, you know, once again, thanks for coming on. Part of the reason I thought listeners would get a lot of value about having you on was just some of the research themes that you've been working on and we'll jump into them. I think, you know, just to kind of Telegraph this a little bit, it's going to be a little bit about kind of the trend in real estate and commercial real estate in general, where we've gone from institutional investors and private investors. And I wa

May 25, 2022 • 11min
Tips for Cross-Border Investing | EP105
Transcription: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time Jesse (22s): E Speaker 1 (24s): Everybody. This is Jennifer galley. You're listening to working capital. I thought today, we'd do a, just ask Jesse. You can always reach out to me directly. If you have any questions related to real estate investing. I did a YouTube video a little while back, and if you're interested in that you can head over to working capital podcast.com. It should be under the video section. It's basically an interview with Chris . Who's a cross border tax specialist, and really wanted to do a conversation about investing from another country. So if you've ever wanted to buy real estate or interested in buying real estate in a different country, wanting to get into a little bit of something like tips do's and don'ts when it comes to that. Now I'll focus this a little bit more on Canadians investing in the U S but you could think of it as us investing in Canada, or really, you know, investing in a different country altogether. You know, a lot of these will apply to both. I think the key is that there is some sort of relationship between those countries and, you know, if you're investing the country, you're thinking about investing likely if that is what you're thinking, we'll have some sort of relationship just use Canada in the U S because the treaty, the tax treaties that we have are so robust and it makes investing relatively simple, but there still are a few things that people should look out for. And I did also did a post on Instagram, and this is where it kind of fleshed out some of the, the tips. So we'll start with number one here. I think what's so critical when you're doing this is to figure out what your investing strategy is. And by that, I mean, where you're going to invest, what type of assets you're going to invest and what type of strategy you are going to work with those assets. And what I mean by that is the, where is pretty obvious, which geography are you going to invest in? If you're investing in the states, are you investing in Florida? Are you investing in California, Texas? The second piece about asset class is, you know, real estate is a diverse industry. There are all kinds of different asset classes. You have everything from self storage to retail, to industrial, multi res, and you know, everything else in between hotels. So getting clear on what type of investment from an asset class perspective is really important because it'll set up a lot of the basis of how you're going to go and where you're going to invest. Now, the last one is the real estate strategy itself. Now this is so important because oftentimes the strategy that you're going to have. So whether that is doing flips, whether that is looking at burn investments, where you're doing a rehab, a refinancing, and renting out a lot, a lot of times, those strategies will dictate where you should be investing geographically. So for example, if you're looking at short-term rentals, you know, Miami is probably a great market for that. Something in the Midwest, in a small town, probably not, but conversely, if you're looking at land plays, the inverse of that would be true. So the strategy itself is one of those critical aspects of figuring out what you want to do, the strategy you're going to work with those asset classes. And then that will be a function of what geography that you end up investing in. So the next one, you know, back to geography itself, researching the local market. So once you have that market or the

May 23, 2022 • 38min
$40 Million in Real Estate And the Benefits of Social Media with Sam Primm | EP104
Sam Primm is a Real Estate Investor, Educator with over 40 million dollar Real Estate using people's money He started a successful Rental Real Estate company, Wholesale company and he does Flips as well. In this episode we talked about: * Sam’s Bio & Background * The First Investment in Real Estate * Using Other People's Money to Buy Real Estate * Network Building * Private & Institutional Lenders * Capital Structure * Interest Rate Risks * Journey on Social Media * The Process of Property Acquisition * Mentorship, Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: Book “Pitch Anything” by Oren Klaff Book “Eat that frog” by Brian Tracy https://www.instagram.com/samfasterfreedom/?hl=en https://fasterfreedom.com Transciption: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jennifer gala and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My guest today is Sam prim. Sam is a real estate investor educator with over $40 million worth of real estate using other people's money. He started a successful rental real estate company, a wholesale company, and he does flips as well. We just kind of went over a little bit about his portfolio right now, Sam, how's it going? Sam (45s): It's going well, man, it's going well, appreciate you having me on. Jesse (47s): Yeah, thanks so much for coming on. I think one thing we miss here in the intro is just the fact that your social media presence with real estate is pretty pronounced. It's part of the reason that we connected, I saw what you were doing online. And I said, you know, I think that listeners would get a lot of value about you coming on, telling your story, and also talking a little bit about that presence online. So thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. Why don't we take a couple of steps back as we normally do here and talk a little bit about your background and how you got into real estate, you know, from, you know, where you started and where you're at today. Sam (1m 23s): Yeah, for sure. So I don't have the most exciting story, like, you know, some guests and some people I know that, you know, came over here or grew up super, super poor and didn't have, you know, much of an upbringing. I had a normal upbringing, you know, my parents were middle-class. My dad was an engineer. My mom was a teacher. My dad worked for the same company for 40 years and retired. That was kinda what I was grown up in. That was kind of how I was raised, you know, save money, save money, save money, invest, and went to college and was kind of planning that path. But kinda during college, I started a, a house, you know, painting company with my buddy. We started to kind of paint in the summers, painted exteriors of houses and fences and decks, kinda got some entrepreneurial itches and then went to school and finished school and then, you know, graduated and got a job out of school. And he got an engineering degree and we were just doing our own thing. And then we started to connect and talk real estate and we decided to go in and buy one house a year for 10 years was our goal. And just kind of start to just see what real estate can do for us on the side. <

May 20, 2022 • 43min
Land-Use Regulation and the Growing Cost of Housing with Emily Hamilton | EP100
Emily Hamilton Emily Hamilton is a Senior Research Fellow and Director of the Urbanity Project at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. Emily’s research focuses on urban economics and land-use policy. In this episode we talked about: -Emily’s Bio & Background -Land use regulation -The evolution of zoning regulations -Single Family Housing Ownership -Housing Regulations Challenges -Affordable Housing -Rent Control -Vacancy Decontrol -Policy Restrictions -Accessory Apartments -BANANA - Build Absolutely Nothing -Anywhere Near Anybody -Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: Book: “Green Metropolis” by David Owen https://www.mercatus.org/scholars/emily-hamilton @ebwhamilton Twitter Transcriptions: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jesper galley and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My special guest today is Emily Hamilton. Emily is a senior research fellow and director of their abandon the project at the Mercatus center at George Mason university. Emily's research focuses on urban economics and land use policy. And she joins us today to talk about housing in the United States and a little bit more broadly in general, in Canadian and other north American markets. Emily has, how's it going today? Emily (48s): Good. Thanks for having me, Jessie. Jesse (50s): Yeah. Thank you so much for, for joining the podcast for listeners that aren't, aren't familiar with your work at Emily. Maybe you could give us a little bit of a high level description of how you got into the space that you're in right now, as it pertains to, you know, economics land use policy and the like Emily (1m 9s): Sure. Yeah, I'm an economist studying mostly the effects of land use regulations, local zoning roles and their effect on housing affordability. I first got interested in this policy area when I wound up in an internship in the planning department of my hometown in Colorado, before that I really had not been aware that all of these local zoning roles have such a large role of shaping what our cities and neighborhoods look like. But once you learn about all the intricacies of rules, like parking requirements and height limits and setback requirements, it's really changes. I think how, how we see the built world around us. Jesse (1m 60s): So I've always been fascinated with urban economics, as it relates to the work we do in commercial real estate. A triumph of the city was, was a book that was recommended to me a few years ago. I thought it was another interesting avenue into how these policies that you're describing or that you research play into the actions of individuals. And I guess economics in general, how that, how people kind of adapt and the incentives that we set up, how people use those incentives and collectively make certain decisions. Maybe you could give us a little bit of a background of land use regulation in general. You know, we didn't invent the wheel and suddenly somebody is like, you need three meters or four feet to build a that there. So what was k

May 11, 2022 • 38min
Finance to Real Estate with Ben Lapidus | EP103
Ben Lapidus is a partner and Chief Financial Officer for Spartan Investment Group LLC, where he has applied his finance and business development skills to construct a portfolio of over $300M assets under management from scratch, build the corporate finance backbone for the organization, and organized over $100M of debt capital from the firm. Ben is also a co-founder and host of the Best Ever Conference and the managing partner of Indigo Ownerships LLC, where he sponsored 40+ single family and multifamily Real estate transactions. In this episode we talked about: * Ben’s Bio & Background * Spartan Investment Group * First Steps in Real Estate Space * Transition from Single Family Houses to Real Big Deals * Best Ever Conference Evolution and Partnership * First Deal Details * Money or Wisdom? * Building a Team * Risk Navigation * Real Estate Market Outlook * Mentorship, Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: Carlo Rovelli books Ben@spartan-investors.com Transcriptions: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to working capital the real estate podcast. My guest today is Ben Lapidus. Ben is a partner and chief financial officer for Spartan investment group, LLC, where he has applied his finance and business development skills to acquire the company's current portfolio, build the corporate finance backbone for the firm and organize hundreds of million dollars of debt capital. Ben is also the founder and host of the nation, the national best ever real estate investing conference and managing partner of indigo ownerships, LLC, where he sponsored 40 plus single family and multifamily real estate transactions. Ben, how you doing today? Ben (56s): Doing awesome. Thanks for having Jesse. Jesse (58s): Well, thanks for coming on. And before we jump into kind of the background and where you're working right now, for those that don't know, I think a lot of our listeners do know, but the best ever real estate investing conference, can you just let listeners know what you did the best ever? I guess it's now not just a conference, it's kind of a whole company in general, but if you could just let listeners that don't know what that is. Just kind of give a little bit of a bio there. Ben (1m 20s): Yeah. The best ever conference it's turned into a world and an experience, a Disneyland, all of its own for real estate investors. It brings together over 1500 real estate investors, syndicators and operators. Every year. It matches over half a billion of unplaced capital and over 50 billion of assets under management from active operators, 96% of attendees have done at least one commercial deal in the last six months. So it's a really frothy, active community. If people come together at the beginning of every year to learn about what's ahead in the economic conditions to network with each other, learn from each other, get deals done and party with each other. It's an awesome time. Jesse (1m 53s): That's awesome. So the, the last one that you had, when was that and where was it?

May 4, 2022 • 43min
Real Estate Syndications and Cross-Border Investing with Mauricio Rauld | EP102
Mauricio Rauld is the founder and CEO of Premier Law Group, a premier boutique securities law firm. As a nationally recognised expert on private placements, Mauricio works with elite entrepreneurs who seek to increase and protect their wealth through syndications. In this episode we talked about: Mauricio’s Bio & Background Syndications Professional Advice on Raising Capital Deals` Structures Limited Partnership Governance Real Estate Syndicator Live Dealing with Foreign Investors Mauricio’s Thoughts on The Current Real Estate Environment Useful links: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZEpfuGhqjgrHtSg8c-e9cmaN7zyD2hlGLHr http://www.premierlawgroup.net

Apr 28, 2022 • 39min
Real Estate Lending and the BRRR Strategy with Jesse Bobrowski | EP101
Jesse Bobrowski is a Vice President and Partner of Business Development at Calvert Home Mortgage Investment based in Calgary, Alberta. In this episode we talked about: Jesse’s Bio & Background Lending in Real Estate- BRRRR Strategy Hard Money Lenders VS Private Lenders Underwriting Deals Interest Rates and Inflation Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: Book: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable https://chmic.ca https://www.instagram.com/calverthomemortgage_/?hl=en Transcriptions: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Jesse (23s): Ladies and gentlemen, my name's Jessica galley, and you're listening to working capital their real estate podcast. My special guest today is a another Jesse Jesse . Jesse is the vice president and partner of business development at Calvert home mortgage. We're going to talk today about burst strategies, home mortgages, anything to do with lending. We're going to go into a little bit of Jessie's background and kind of shoot from the hip. So hope you enjoy it, Jesse. How are you doing today? Jesse B (50s): I'm doing great, Jesse. Thanks for having me along and hello to all your wonderful listeners. Jesse (56s): Yeah, thanks for coming on. We were just chatting right before the show. It's a little sunnier here in Toronto. You are joining us from a little bit further west, and you're saying that you, you guys, you guys are snowing right now. Jesse B (1m 10s): We are actually, it's sunny. Now we sold for the last 24 hours. So yeah, we got about half a foot of snow on the ground, Jesse (1m 18s): Right on. So that's out in Calgary. So I think I'm not sure if we've chatted about this, the audience that we have. I always like to say it's a, it's a podcast by a Canadian for all real estate investors, because I think 60% of our listeners are in the us 40% in Canada. So maybe those in the Midwest are getting a little bit of snow as well, this time of year. But for listeners, as we do with all our guests, perhaps you can give us a little bit of a background about how you got into real estate, that journey for you and, and where you're at today and what you're doing. Jesse B (1m 53s): Yeah, sure. I'd love to give the listener some insight into how I got here. So 16 years ago, I finished my university career. I went to a school in Ontario. I'm from Ontar

Apr 14, 2022 • 53min
State of the Market and Real Estate Predictions from Professor Peter Linneman | EP99
Peter Linneman is an author of the Linneman Letter, the former Professor of Real Estate, Finance, and Public Policy at the Wharton School of Business. Previously listed as one of the top 25 most influential people in commercial Real Estate. In this episode we talked about: Real Estate Finance and Investments Book Valuation of Real Estate assets Inflation in Real Estate Relationship between corporates and interest rates Peter’s thoughts on Real Estate Asset Classes Overview of Retail Real Estate Office Market Future of Commercial Real Estate Industry Advice to Real Estate Newcomers Resources and Lessons Learned Useful links: https://www.linnemanassociates.com Books: Factfulness : Ten Reasons We're Wrong About The World - And Why Things Are Better Than You Think by Hans Rosling Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo&t=3s Transcriptions: Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, my name's Jessica gal, and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast, a special, special guests today. We just chatted about this. If you don't know him by now, I don't know if you want to know him. And that is Dr. Peter Lindemann. He's the author of the Lindemann letter, the former professor real estate and finance and public policy at the Wharton school of business. And he was previously listed as one of the top 25, most influential people in commercial real estate. Peter, how you doing? Peter (49s): I'm doing great. I just got back from Egypt. So my background is a long lasting quality piece of real estate. The Luxor, temple, and luck soar. So good reminder that great real estate lasts like four or 5,000 years. Jesse (1m 6s): There's a book I'm reading right now and it's on the evolution of skyscrapers and it goes back to the pyramids. It goes back to the, the renderings and the Bible of places that may be existed. Architecturally looks sound, but that is a, it's fantastic to see how we've come from there to where we're at today. And, and, and the drive for humans to build up. Hasn't seemed to wane in any way Peter (1m 28s): When you see this stuff from three, four or 5,000 years ago. Yo okay. They got it. Jesse (1m 35s): Yeah. Well, thanks so much for coming on. I, I think this is a real treat for listeners, for anybody watching the video. I'm holding up my real estate and finance and investment book written by the doctor, Peter Lindemann. And I mean, if you're in the real estate industry in


