For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Friendship is one of those gifts in life we can run to when it feels like the rest of the world just doesn’t get us. On a day when life hasn’t been cooperating exactly as you’d hoped, who hasn’t called that friend we can vent to, cry to, laugh with, and compare notes with? And the longer a friendship goes, the deeper the bond seems to be. But some of us are in spaces in our lives where we’ve had to follow another dream and leave the proximity of our friends. And the work of friendship takes on a different layer. It can be difficult to connect like we used to–even if it was just dropping by to say hi because you could–it’s harder to keep relationships alive when you don’t see your friend daily, weekly, or even monthly. In this second installment of our For the Love of Conversations with Jen and Kelly, we are talking all about friendship and how it changes as you mature, grow, and perhaps even re-locate. And how to keep it going strong—even across the divides of family commitments, jobs, and miles in between. Jen and Kelly first had this conversation over on Kelly’s podcast, but we loved it so much we had to share it here–plus–-Jen has added some of her own insights and comments regarding her friendship with Kelly and what she learned through their conversation. * * *Kelly’s Links:Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:For the Love of Friendships: Savoring Your Friendships with Shauna Niequist - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-01/savoring-your-friendships-with-shauna-niequist/ Kate Baer - https://www.katebaer.com Connect with Jen!Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know there really isn’t much that’s more comforting than sitting down with one of your friends and talking openly because you know they just get you. They have seen you grow and change and evolve and become who you are today–and they don’t try to stand in the way of that change however hard it may be for them, or for you. These conversations with friends are life-giving. And with that in mind, we thought it might be fun to have a series of conversations here in our podcast community with our best and brightest friends and dispensers of wisdom and humor. And our first conversation partner for this 4-part series is none other than one of our favorite humans herself–author, podcaster and speaker Kelly Corrigan. This first installment of For the Love of Conversations will bring us 4 weeks from Kelly’s own show, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, with new thoughts and insights from Jen herself at the front of each episode. To kick things off, Kelly and Jen tackle the good, the bad, and the ugliest parts of change. We all know that change is hard, not just for us, but for our people–and that pesky inability to see the future makes it even harder. Jen and Kelly lean into the notion that change can be beautiful. It helps us create the life we want for ourselves while growing us into the people we’ve always wanted to be.  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.  Stamps.com | Head to stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE to start your four week trial today.  MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle.Thought-Provoking Quotes“Change, although it can be literally devastating, can also, and generally does, turn out to be a great and wonderful good.” – Jen Hatmaker “There's something in us, even in the worst possible scenario that compels us to live, that compels us to recover and to reach for hope and light and love.” – Jen Hatmaker “Somebody is going to make you laugh just when you thought you might never smile again. You get to borrow from their life force until your own returns.” – Jen Hatmaker “In chasing change the risk is worth the reward as it makes us fuller, rounder, more compassionate human people. It brings us closer to alignment, into what we love, what we're good at, what has meaning to us, what brings us to life.” – Jen Hatmaker Kelly’s LinksWebsite InstagramKelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders  Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking - Susan Cain The Middle Place - Kelly Corrigan Worst End of School Year Mom Ever - Jen Hatmaker Simple Habit App Kate Baer  Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we come to the end of our Favorite Pastimes series, we hope you are filling your summer with your favorite activities —and maybe some new ones we’ve talked about here! Our series wouldn’t be complete without a conversation about one universal pastime that is approached with either love or loathing—cooking!  Perhaps cooking has become nothing but drudgery for you and those ungrateful kids who eye your culinary masterpieces with disdain have made you turn to slinging out Lunchables and microwave mac and cheese. Or maybe you are single and cooking for one seems like a chore. Or maybe you *think* cooking could be your thing but you’re intimidated by the lingo and measurements and if you have the right appliances (Hot Pots! Air Fryers! Immersion Blenders! Oh my!). No matter where you fall on the cooking spectrum, easy and delicious summer cooking is within your reach and we have a guest who is here to help us claim our cooking identity. Teri Turner is an author, home cook, and podcast host who has turned her love of the kitchen into a whole career for herself. Her mantra is “It’s Just Food,” —takes the pressure off, right? She encourages us to find our “food thing” and how we can perfect that signature dish that will have even the most skeptical palates coming back for more. Teri’s tips include Whole30 options, gluten free dishes—she leaves nothing behind. Teri makes cooking seem accessible to us all—and promises our kitchens can be places of joy and magic-making.    * * * Thank you to our sponsors!   Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are at paireyewear.com/forthelove for 15% off your first purchase.  Thought-Provoking Quotes   “I love sharing inspiration for food and I love tips and tricks to get you in the kitchen and to cook real food, because all of us are on our phones all the time. We're busy, we’re going out to eat. And we just have to get back to take a breath and get back to cooking some beautiful food. And find the joy that comes from cooking food, eating it with friends, and the celebration of cooking.” – Teri Turner   “Here’s the thing, we have to eat anyway so we might as well surrender to it and allow cooking to be something spectacular and fun.”  – Teri Turner    “Go for what you want and make it happen and believe in yourself. And by the way have a lot of fun doing it.”  – Teri Turner   Teri’s LinksWebsite  Table Talks Podcast Facebook  Instagram  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeNo Crumbs Left : Whole30 Endorsed, Recipes for Everyday Food Made Marvelous - Teri Turner Connect with Jen!Jen’s website Jen’s InstagramJen’s Twitter Jen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For May 2022, Jen and the club read Abi Dare’s The Girl With The Louding Voice. Abi is originally from Lagos, Nigeria and went on to study law in the UK at the University of Wolverhampton and eventually earned her MA in Creative Writing at Birkbeck, University of London. Not only is she an incredible writer, she is also a major advocate for women’s education. Her husband inspired her to write this book and it came about after discussing how they saw housemaids treated during their childhood. The Girl With The Louding Voice was a New York Times Bestseller, a #ReadWithJenna Today Show book club pick, and it was an Indie Next Pick. This story whipped up a ton of talk and for a good reason, it helps folks see the impact lack of education, opportunity, and freedom can have on young girls across the world. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with author extraordinaire, Abi Dare. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Head to betterhelp.com/forthelove for 10% off your first month.  MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. ABLE | Head to ableclothing.com and get 15% off sitewide using code JEN. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I knew I wanted to tell a story of a young girl who was semi illiterate and had only three years of education. And that was very different from who I am. And so I decided to try to create a character that I could give her the story that she deserves.” – Abi Dare  “In your own little tiny way, and with tiny little gestures of kindness of reaching out, you can change a life. And you can make a difference.” – Abi Dare  Abi’s LinksInstagram Twitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBig Little Lies - Liane Moriarty  My Sister, The Serial Killer - Oyinkan Braithwaite  Open Water - Caleb Azuma Nelson Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Time to grab your passport and packing cubes! The world’s back open for travel—and if you’ve tried to book a trip recently, you know that, hello, the prices are a smidge higher than they used to be. But with a little planning and a lot of advice from The Points Guy, you can rack up the credit card points that’ll get you to unforgettable destinations around the world for a fraction of the price! Brian Kelly, The Points Guy himself, joins Jen to share how he turned his love of a good deal into a lifestyle brand sharing travel how-to’s for every budget from every corner of the planet (it’s a *wild* story!). Brian tips his hand on the best-kept trips you need to take at home and abroad, how you can earn enough points for a free flight to Europe in 90 days, all while building a credit score that can unlock opportunities at home while you plan your next getaway. #practical This episode is a treasure trove of travel tips, so grab a pen and paper—and maybe a fruity drink with an umbrella—because your next adventure is closer than you think! * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.  KiwiCo | Get 50% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE.  Chime | Head to chime.com/forthelove to get started today!Thought-Provoking Quotes“I think what I've done with points is take this really granular boring subject and kind of make it fun and ‘look what I can do.’ And being 6'7" whenever I test out airline seats and hotels, I'm like, If I can be comfortable in this seat you can too. And I added my own personality into it whereas a lot of other bloggers were kind of clinical and just taking pictures of the plane seat and the plane whereas I kind of injected a little fabulousity into it.” – Brian Kelly  “I just want to put this out there for people: if you're paying with cash or debit card, you're paying for my points. . . . When you pay cash, you're losing money because you're not getting the rewards that are built into the cost of goods.” – Brian Kelly “When you find amazing deals, book it because most airlines will let you cancel within a day. So don't call all your friends and try to herd the cats on taking the trip, book the flight and then take 24 hours to double check you can do it. Book now, think later, that's my advice.” – Brian Kelly  “The coolest thing about points is that you can get points for free, essentially. In the US it's so lucrative—no other country can you get points paying your rent or doing online shopping. And so basically what you want to do, the foundation of any good points strategy, is maximizing your spending.” – Brian Kelly  “There's certain places you go that are just spiritual that have that energy and it's Guatemala, the food, it's safe. I've been to Guatemala multiple times, and everyone I take is like, ‘This is amazing, why doesn't everyone go here?’” – Brian Kelly  “I do believe people become better people, the more of the world they travel. You realize that other people are not scary, they're actually amazing.” – Brian Kelly Bryan’s LinksBrian’s website, The Points Guy Brian’s Instagram Brian’s farm, Carbon Ridge Animal SanctuaryConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When it comes to hobbies and pastimes, the inspiration can be drawn from anywhere. Maybe it was something you did during the summer as a kid, or it was an activity you loved to do with your mom in her freetime. No matter where your inspiration stems from, perhaps you’ve returned to it today and it brings you peace, comfort and even healing. Our guest this week was diagnosed 15 years ago with Celiac Disease, with neurological implications that put her in a wheelchair. Looking for solace and healing, she turned to her two favorite things: reading and gluten free baking. Stephanie Hockersmith, aka, PieLadyBooks, took her therapeutic pastime and has turned it into an absolutely amazing Instagram page and now small business (and healer herself in the process)! She takes covers of her favorite books and turns them into the most incredible pies you have ever seen! If you are curious like we were when we first met Stephanie, be sure to head over to watch this episode on YouTube as we’ll be sharing some of the incredible pies she’s created there. You’ll be inspired as Stephanie talks about how she stumbled into this art, how it guided her healing process, and why believing in yourself creates magic if you let it. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Pair | Get glasses as unique as you are at paireyewear.com/forthelove for 15% off your first purchase.  Me Course | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com to join our sisterhood in nerdiness today.  ABLE | Head over to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to save 15% on anything.Thought-Provoking Quotes“I got really, really sick about 15 years ago. It was actually celiac disease. My husband really loved pies, so I thought, "You know what? I'm going to try to really master a yummy gluten-free pie.” I just researched and researched and researched and it kept me alive in a lot of ways. As you're healing and your body's getting stronger, I had this project to work on, and so I started making these really beautiful pies.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “It's exciting to see magic in yourself and to see yourself as something magical. I have a really hard time embracing that but pie making has helped me.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “I am abundantly grateful. It is the most weird little niche I could have ever imagined. I never expected it, and if I could say that to anybody it's I went from being in a wheelchair 15 years ago to The Today Show last week. So you just never know where your journey's going to go.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “Don't give up and keep fighting for that magical part of you that makes you feel alive, because it's crucial to who we are and allows us to pour out into others in such big ways.” – Stephanie Hockersmith “For anyone looking to find their creative niche, I would say to just start. Start something, find something that gives you spark.” – Stephanie Hockersmith Stephanie’s LinksInstagramFacebook  Stephanie’s Girl Power Playlist Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeToday Show Appearance  The Smallest Part - Amy Harmon  Untamed - Glennon Doyle  All The Blues Come Through - Metra Farrari  The Girl With The Louding Voice - Abi Dare  All Along You Were Blooming - Morgan Harper Nichols  With The Fire on High - Elizabeth Acevedo Fight Song - Rachel Platten Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Aren’t we all inspired by people who have taken their favorite hobby, or their little side hustle, or their craft–and they invested in it, they loved it so much that it became their main thing? In this series, we’ve introduced a variety of pastimes we all can enjoy this summer–the kinds of things that give us that break from the daily grind–but in doing so, we’re also talking to folks who took the leap to make their pastime their career. And in this episode, we’re giving a nod to a pastime that’s been exploding over the past few years–a love for plants and gardening! For many, gardening has long been a part of their favorite pastimes, but we’re seeing it become more accessible to weekend gardeners, others who thought they could never be good at it, or those who thought the whole proposition of keeping another living thing fed and watered was overwhelming at best. Marcus Bridgewater, aka, Garden Marcus, is our horticultural guide to the secret of growing healthy plants, and simultaneously, becoming more healthy ourselves. He presides over an insanely popular Instagram account, is a content creator and a CEO of his company Choice Forward, where he offers workshops, presentations, life coaching, and more to empower individuals and strengthen communities. Jen shares the story of her metamorphosis from becoming a plant murderer to plant mom with the advent of two little hanging plants entrusted to her by friends in a season where she was struggling to nurture herself; much less two plants. Marcus also gives us a peek into his new book, How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself, and shows that it is possible to keep ourselves, our loved ones and our plants thriving and growing. * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove. MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. ABLE | Head over to ableclothing.com and use code JEN to save 15% on anything.Thought-Provoking Quotes “Not to deter people from plant care, but taking care of plants can be a science in a way. There are lots of levels of thought and things to consider, lots of variables that affect them, but the rewards are so cosmic that it makes all of that effort worth it.” – Marcus Bridgewater “Every time I walked into the garden, it made me a better teacher, it made me a better friend, a better person.” – Marcus Bridgewater“All living things respond to vibration. Your voice is a collection of vibrations, and so this means your voice can be a valuable tool if you use it wisely. So, be conscious of how you use your voice, because if you're not using your voice with kindness, chances are you're not building community.” – Marcus Bridgewater “There's no reason to not get plants, but there is also no reason to have them and have them decline and have them cost you. They're an incredible tool and that tool can become a vice if we are not conscious.” – Marcus Bridgewater “We need to plant seeds of love, kindness, patience, and positivity so that we can grow wholesome roots, that will yield trees of prosperity, which will then yield fruits of success that we can all enjoy. And I think that if we are more conscious of those seeds, we can live in a future that has a forest of prosperity for us to all enjoy.” – Marcus Bridgewater Marcus’s LinksWebsiteFacebook InstagramTwitter Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeChoice Forward  How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself - Marcus Bridgewater  Dana Hammarstrom - Co-Founder of Choice Forward  Plants Mentioned From Easiest to Hardest to Maintain Philodendron Giganteum Dieffenbachia Silver Sword Philodendron Asparagus Fern  Bromeliads Pothos  Sweet Potato Ivy  Snake Plants Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we continue on in our Favorite Pastime series, we’re reveling in all the opportunities that are hiding in plain sight–through the beloved activities, we cherish in our spare time. No spare time, you say? We understand—and that’s where our series has a delightful twist–these folks took their passions and hobbies and turned them from hobbies into full-fledged careers. So you think those toaster cozies you like to knit can’t be a full time gig? Think again–we’ve got creators, makers and dreamers of all ilks–and this week’s guest is one for the books! She is an artist, a poet, a driftwood collecting connoisseur–yes you heard us right–and she is creating the most unique, beautiful and accessible art that you would ever hope to see. Jaime Kurowski has always felt the call to pursue art, as it’s ingrained in her family tree. So when she took a sabbatical from teaching to pursue her driftwood creations, it wasn’t a big surprise for anyone. But like many creatives, her work comes from a place of darkness. One devastating event led to another and Jaime found herself seeking healing from her profound emotional and physical brokenness. Part of her healing was finding a new way to unwind, express herself, and put light into the world. She came through that rough season and now has a company of her own that is thriving, and also heads up a collective of female business owners and artists who have gone through similar journeys, who all focus on finding the audacity to believe in themselves and their talents.  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Stamps.com | Sign up for your 4-week trial today at stamps.com using code FORTHELOVE.  MeCourse | Save $20 on the parenting MeCourse using the code Parenting20 at mecourse.org. You can also get half off all 4 courses using the code 4CourseBundle. Catalina Crunch | Head to catalinacrunch.com/forthelove for 15% off your first order plus free shipping. Thought-Provoking Quotes “This is my first year where I'm a full-time creative, and I'm reinventing the things that I loved about teaching, my passion for creative writing, and my passion for the words that we have on repeat in our head, women, adults, and children. And then using the driftwood to give it art.” – Jaime Kurowski  “She was free. And when she returned to the trees, she dressed herself in lovely, placed flowers in her hair. Let sensuality slip off her shoulder, slipped strength upon her feet, looked down at this solid ground and finally stepped into herself.” – an excerpt from a poem by Jaime Kurowski “If you ask a fourth grade class what they have on repeat, they're like, ‘I'm stupid,’ or ‘I'm ugly.’ And the confidence camp that I did for them to have a place to not be alone in that, is everything to me.” – Jaime Kurowski  Jaime’s LinksWebsiteInstagram FacebookBooks & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Make(Her) CollectiveThe Make(Her) Collective Website  For the Love of the Elephant in the Room: Grief on Your Terms with Sal & Im Connect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another episode in our For the Love of Favorite Pastimes series, and this week, we’re talking about the great outdoors. And in case you think this topic is just for those of you who find their greatest joy loading up piles of gear to go hiking for 20 miles every weekend, or for all the rabid runners, cyclists, swimmers, campers, and the rest of you that make the other half of us real, real tired––there’s something for all of us who may like being outside, even those who aren’t necessarily the outdoorsy type. Maybe your jam is barbecuing outside with friends, or sitting on your porch swing à la Jen Hatmaker. At the end of the day ,we can all agree (and science proves) that spending time in nature makes a person happier. And that’s the message this week’s guest is taking to the masses. Ben Steele is the Chief Customer Officer at REI - the nation’s largest consumer co-op for the outdoor community. Ben didn’t grow up with an innate love for nature, even though it was a part of his family’s life in Idaho. It wasn’t until he found his own outdoor personality as an adult that he truly appreciated the benefits of spending time outside (and surprise– it doesn’t have to involve driving miles away from home or having oodles of gear).  * * *Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | Get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/forthelove.  KiwiCo | Get 30% off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line at kiwico.com using code FORTHELOVE.  Betterhelp | Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month. Thought-Provoking Quotes“There is science that says when folks have access to green spaces, have access to clean air, have access to time outside, you're healthier as an individual and at a societal level.” – Ben Steele “The only part of your day you truly control is what time you get up. So I get up early to get my time outdoors every day on the weekdays. And there's definitely days I'd rather stay in bed, but if I put it off for the end of the day, there's always something that comes up.” – Ben Steele “The outside is not an equally safe space for everybody. It's certainly true for women. It's certainly true for people of color. It's certainly true for even different identity groups. And so we've got to be honest about everything from racist naming of outdoor places, to a legacy of stolen land, to the reality that, depending on who I am, I may not feel that comfortable outside or around other people.” – Ben Steele “Relatively early in COVID [REI] had built a beautiful new headquarters and we sold it. We made thedecision that we'd rather have these dollars working for our employees, working for our customers, working for our business. So we've been in a virtual environment with a couple of satellite offices for the last few years. And that was a big change for our headquarters. We're trying to recognize, ‘wow, my days at home are really efficient and really effective and productive. My days in the office are really connected.’ Both of those things matter.” - Ben Steele on achieving work life balance.  “I think for somebody who says I'm not an outdoors person, I'm not outdoorsy. I think what I'd ask is what they like to do outside? And it might be a barbecue in the backyard with their family. They love to sit on the front porch and watch the world go by. They love to watch a sunset or they love birds. Whatever you like, find a way to pursue that.” – Ben SteeleBooks & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeREI Co-Op REI Gear Trade-InConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Penner’s The Lost Apothecary. Sarah began writing seriously back in 2015 after attending a lecture by one of our favorite authors–Elizabeth Gilbert. Soon after that moment, Sarah enrolled in her first creative writing class, and y’all, how lucky are we that she did. Her book, The Lost Apothecary, was an instant success. It debuted at #7 on the New York Times bestseller list, and has been translated into over 40 languages. Based on a real-life mudlarking discovery (and yes, she explains what that is), Sarah takes us back in time to see how one woman created space for women everywhere to do what they needed to do. So, we are more than thrilled to bring this conversation to you all with the wonderful and talented Sarah Penner.  * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Stamps.com | Start your trial today using promo code FORTHELOVE at stamps.com. Thought-Provoking Quotes “I don't think Nella is a hero or a villain. I think she's somewhere in the middle. And that's how all of us are really, none of us are heroes. None of us are villains. We're all somewhere in the middle.”– Sarah Penner  “Sometimes we can meet someone and just form an instant friendship, sisterhood, connection, whatever you want to call it. And those can be the people that are most impactful in our lives. We don't need to only rely on these friends that we've had our whole lives. Sometimes the people that we need the most are just right there in the near vicinity.”– Sarah Penner  "Betrayal is part of the human experience. And one of the most enjoyable things about writing this book was I was able to compare and contrast how things were different with 200 years between them. And one of the main things that was the same is how we are all hurt by people that we love. And 200 years from now, nothing will have changed."– Sarah Penner Sarah’s LinksWebsiteInstagramTwitter  Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeI Capture the Castle - Dodie Smith Bloomsbury Girls - Natalie JennerConnect with Jen!Jen’s websiteJen’s InstagramJen’s TwitterJen’s FacebookJen’s YouTube To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices