The Edge Podcast

Matthew Fisher is CEO of Katana.Many L2s have launched, hoping the apps show up. Katana is taking a different approach, building apps itself and designing the economic engine from day one to make this all possible.In this episode, Matthew breaks down how vaultbridge assets like vbETH and vbUSDT redirect real yield from Ethereum Mainnet to active DeFi participants on Katana, why they acquired the team behind IDEX to launch Katana Perps, and their roadmap to onboard major liquidity from CEXs like OKX and fintechs like Revolut who can route liquidity through Katana for yield.------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:04- Matthew’s background in DeFi6:24 - Katana’s origin story10:25 - vbTokens and why yield goes to DeFi participants, not holders12:00 - How the vaultbridge actually works with Morpho on Ethereum17:38 - Vitalik’s L2 comments and Ethereum alignment21:50 - How Katana can win over users as a DeFi hub25:12 - IDEX acquisition and Katana Perps launch28:06 - 5 revenue-generating businesses for one network30:55 - Built for both retail and institutions32:51 - ve(3,3) flywheel at the network level on Katana44:35 - KAT vs vKAT vs avKAT48:08 - OKX Earn and Binance programs powered by Katana52:29 - Katana’s endgame to tap into fintech liquidity54:32 - Why Katana is strategically aligned with Polygon59:20 - What Matthew's most excited for in 6-12 months1:01:26 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Katana website: https://katana.network/► Katana on X: https://x.com/katana► Katana Perps website: https://perps.katana.network/► Katana Perps on X: https://x.com/katanaperps► Matthew on X: https://x.com/mfisher10x------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad earned ~$500 of KAT in the airdrop and voluntarily staked it as avKAT in a demo edited into the pod. Katana has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast but we do not accept paid guest slots. We believe Katana has an interesting story given its use of vbAssets and ve(3,3) mechanics at the network level.

Nick Forster, Co-founder and CEO of Derive — former institutional options trader who built Derive’s CLOB and RFQ market structure. He explains why on‑chain options finally took off, how RFQ and institutional flows unlocked scale, the role of Yieldmageddon pushing funds to options, and why Derive’s network effects and product design created a dominant market position.

Arpan Gautam is the Founder of Noon.After years at McKinsey and Goldman, Arpan was led to build institutional-grade yield products in DeFi. Noon now delivers one of the highest performing stablecoin yields (9% APY the last 30 days) while DeFi's biggest competitors sit at 4-6%.In this episode, we cover:+ How Noon's multi-strategy yield engine combines DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi to outperform competitors+ Why private credit, leverage looping, and institutional access remove the gatekeepers on high-yield products+ What institutions actually want: yield, infrastructure, and risk management+ Noon's newly launched tBTC yield vaults------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:27 - Arpan’s background3:58 - Why choose to build in DeFi7:58 - What institutions want: Yield, infrastructure, and risk management14:08 - Retail vs. institutional: Navigating the changing DeFi landscape18:05 - What is Noon? “The highest, safest stablecoin yield”23:57 - Evolving beyond self-reported transparency dashboards27:29 - Noon's multi-strategy yield engine: DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi32:53 - How Noon achieves 9%+ yields: Removing gatekeepers and accessing institutional products36:44 - Private credit exposure and why the risk is acceptable for Noon41:31 - New Noon tBTC yields and strategies44:41 - NOON token launch: transferability, staking, and LP vault50:02 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Noon website: https://noon.capital/► Noon on X: https://x.com/noon_capital► Arpan on X: https://x.com/ag_noon------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Noon has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast but we do not do paid guest slots. We believe Noon has a compelling story to spotlight given their standout yield products.

Felipe Montealegre, Founder and CIO of Theia, a liquid crypto fund focused on fundamentals and token-holder aligned structures. He argues why the four-year token bear market may be ending. Topics include token valuations via DCF, the importance of tokenholder rights, contrarian vs. accuracy metrics for investing, RWAs and their underwriting bottleneck, and where Theia is deploying capital now.

Hart Lambur is the CoFounder of Across.We host a timely new discussion on the reasoning behind the first ever major token buyout in DeFi, a proposal to convert ACX tokenholders into equity shareholders of a traditional private company for Across. Hart explains how the $25M treasury would finance the buyout, and the vision for Across's future as stablecoin infrastructure where "$1 equals $1" and users pay nothing to move money across chains.In this episode, we cover:+ Why the token model isn't working: DAO governance challenges and misaligned incentives+ How the buyout works: token-to-equity conversion, and who can participate+ The new business model: Free stablecoin movement powered by intents, with issuers paying fees instead of users------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:27 - Hart’s background with Risk Labs4:46 - Big announcement: Across token buyout proposal9:13 - How the token buyout works: rolling into a private entity10:58 - History of the ACX token: Why it launched and what wasn't working14:26 - High FDV tokens and broken markets18:54 - Token governance challenges20:13 - ACX token ownership: DAO, investors, and retail breakdown24:32 - Token to equity conversion25:35 - $25M Across treasury will finance the buyout28:38 - New business: Making stablecoin movement free for users36:09 - Why DAOs struggle with B2B contracts vs private companies40:39 - How the new business works between Across and stablecoin issuers42:28 - What are intents and how they power Across's "$1 = $1" vision45:58 - Three paths to success47:30 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Across website: https://across.to/► Across proposal: https://forum.across.to/t/the-bridge-across/2097► Hart's thoughts on token buyout: https://x.com/hal2001/status/2031737518505537907?s=20► Across on X: https://x.com/AcrossProtocol► Hart on X: https://x.com/hal2001------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Davide Crapis, AI Lead at the Ethereum Foundation, builds decentralized, privacy-first AI infrastructure like ERC-8004. He discusses why AI agents pick chains, how agent-to-agent commerce and identity registries work, Ethereum's ZK advantage for verification and privacy, and a vision of autonomous agents hiring and paying each other onchain.

Gil Santos is Lead Quant at Credora, and Marcin Kazmierczak is CoFounder of RedStone, which recently acquired Credora.We dig into why DeFi desperately needs credit ratings, how Credora is building them, and why this is the missing piece for institutional capital to flow onchain. Gil explains the problem: DeFi has transparency of transactions but opacity when it comes to risk. You can see every trade onchain, but you can't tell if a Morpho vault is genuinely safer than another. Credora is building the Moody's and S&P for DeFi—real-time, dynamic risk ratings that update as market conditions change.In this episode, we cover:+ Why DeFi needs a ratings protocol ($10B rated, 80% Morpho TVL coverage)+ The L2Beat parallel: Raising standards for the industry+ How Credora ratings work: assessment from collateral → markets → vaults+ 2026 vision: Stablecoins to $1T, fintechs offering rated yields to retail------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield🏦 MANTLE | MNT is now live on Solana🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:26 - Gil’s background 3:28 - RedStone’s acquisition of Credora5:48 - Problems in DeFi: Risk, trust, and information asymmetry9:26 - The history of credit ratings in TradFi15:17 - What is Credora for DeFi?16:39 - How do Credora ratings work?19:54 - Rating scale in crypto vs. TradFi22:08 - Probability of significant loss: What the ratings actually measure27:19 - How Credora makes money without compromising credibility31:55 - How vault curators opt in to ratings (and Morpho's role)36:19 - How much is automated? Dynamic ratings vs. human oversight38:09 - Rating RWAs, derivatives, and tokenized commodities41:11 - Why Credora won't become the "big bad ratings agency"44:29 - Institutions coming onchain and the L2Beat parallel47:53 - Institutions already demanding ratings48:44 - Credora revenue and RED tokenomics: Post-acquisition strategy51:00 - Long-term vision: Rating everything and raising standards51:53 - 2026: Fintechs, prediction markets, and onchain parameter updates53:57 - Why DeFi-mullet products could benefit from Credora57:18 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Credora website: https://credora.network/► RedStone website: https://www.redstone.finance/► Credora on X: https://x.com/credoranetwork► RedStone on X: https://x.com/redstone_defi► Marcin on X: https://x.com/MarcinRedStone► Gil on X: https://x.com/gil_n_santos_------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic are investors in RedStone.

Gabriel Shapiro is a top legal expert in cryptoassets and tokenization, who is now Founder of MetaLeX, where he's building onchain legal entities and tokenized securities infrastructure.We dig into Vitalik's recent tweet about refocusing on Ethereum L1 scaling, why Ethereum's commitment to maximum decentralization matters, and the evolution of L2s. Then Gabriel dives into why you don't actually own your stock and how that figures into the emerging RWA sector. We explore why this system exists, why most RWA tokenization recreates the same broken intermediaries, and how MetaLeX is building true ownership onchain.In this episode, we cover:+ Why Ethereum is refocusing on L1 scaling and what it means for L2s+ The Cede & Co revelation: how stock ownership actually works+ Three tokenization philosophies (and why most recreate the problem)+ BORGs: Cybernetic organizations that merge legal entities with smart contracts+ Unbreachable legal agreements using private keys as legal authority+ How MetaLeX replaces Carta + AngelList + DocuSign atomically+ AI agents spinning up their own companies with legal personhood------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield🏦 MANTLE | MNT is now live on Solana🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:54 - Vitalik’s viral tweet to refocus on scaling Ethereum L15:26 - Why did Ethereum move to L2s in the first place?8:54 - The decentralization vs. scale trade-off: Why L2s took a different path13:01 - If the trilemma is solved, have L2s lost leverage?14:37 - What this changing dynamic could mean for L2s18:16 - What is Stage 2 and why some L2s avoid it20:10 - The problems with RWA tokenization today22:21 - Why you don't actually own your stock26:13 - Why the system exists and the three ways to tokenize securities28:40 - Where Canton sits in the tokenization landscape32:19 - Custodial tokenization risk: How DTCC could influence hard forks34:54 - What is MetaLeX? And how we get to real ownership of RWAs onchain42:08 - What is a BORG? Cybernetic organizations explained43:42 - MetaLeX V2: Unbreachable legal agreements48:11 - Replacing Carta + AngelList + DocuSign + law firms atomically53:54 - Can agents spin up their own companies?58:34 - What drives Gabriel: Cyberpunk dreams1:03:18 - Next 12 months, progress towards Ethereum's true corporate finance layer1:06:23 - Robinhood's tokenized stocks approach1:11:21 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► MetaLeX website: https://metalex.tech/► Gabriel's 2018 post on Tokenizing Corporate Capital Stock: https://metalex.substack.com/p/tokenizing-corporate-capital-stock► MetaLeX on X: https://x.com/MetaLeX_Labs► Gabriel Shapiro on X: https://x.com/lex_node------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Gabriel, DeFi Dad, and Nomatic all hold ETH.

Mike Silagadze is the CoFounder and CEO of ether.fi.Ether.fi is building crypto's own Revolut, a fully integrated banking experience that's self-custodial, with lower fees and higher rewards than traditional fintech. In Q4 2025, ether.fi Cash hit $126M in card spending, up 160% quarter over quarter, making it the largest non-custodial crypto card.Mike breaks down the business model (Stake, Liquid, Cash), how they survived October 10th with zero liquidations, and why 2026 is the year they go mainstream.In this episode, we cover:+ How Cash revenue is diversifying the business beyond ETH exposure+ Why they're not another DeFi casino+ $50M revenue in 2025, forecasting $100M+ in 2026+ Token holder rights and why value accrual must be enshrined+ Tokenized stocks and gold coming in March 2026------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield🏦 MANTLE | MNT is now live on Solana🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:25 - ether.fi's business model: Stake, Liquid, Cash2:30 - TVL vs revenue, what ether.fi optimizes for6:22 - How Cash is tripling revenue share and diversifying the business8:51 - How ETH price affects ether.fi's revenue10:25 - Digital asset treasury partnerships11:47 - How ether.fi survived Oct 10th with zero liquidations17:22 - ether.fi Cash hit $126M in spending Q4 (160% QoQ growth)19:35 - Why ether.fi is the largest non-custodial crypto card22:54 - Customer acquisition costs25:33 - Is the card business profitable on its own?26:29 - The $100B corporate card opportunity30:39 - Team of 38 employees, staying lean32:07 - 2025 revenue: $50M (up from $25M in 2024)34:31 - Token holder rights: Why value accrual must be enshrined41:03 - The buyback debate, why ether.fi does them anyway44:28 - What if BlackRock ever acquired ether.fi?48:47 - Going mainstream beyond DeFi (millions of users)50:18 - Vaults as essential infrastructure for a DeFi bank52:58 - Mr. Beast's neofinance app, competition or rising tide?54:17 - Tokenized stocks and gold coming in March 202657:10 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► ether.fi website: https://ether.fi/► Token Terminal ether.fi Q4 2025 Report: https://x.com/tokenterminal/status/2019121507331604772?s=20► ether.fi on X: https://x.com/ether_fi► Mike on X: https://x.com/mikesilagadze------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad invested in the seed round for ether.fi.

Leo Lanza is a well known Ethereum investor and content creator.Markets are panicking. ETH is down 50% from its all-time high. Sentiment across all crypto markets is at multi-year lows. But Leo remains steadfast.He breaks down why Ethereum can't be replicated, why the four-year cycle is breaking, and how the CLARITY Act could be crypto's biggest catalyst ever. He explains why ETH is valued like gold or oil, not a tech stock, and walks through the math behind his $80,000 price target.In this episode, we cover:+ Why Ethereum is like Netflix replacing Blockbuster+ His $80,000 ETH thesis+ Why the CLARITY Act changes everything for institutional adoption+ L2s as Ethereum's weapon for distribution and growth+ What could break Leo's bull case------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield🏦 MANTLE | MNT is now live on Solana🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro3:04 - Leo’s background4:18 - Why focus on Ethereum?5:45 - Why Leo came out swinging when Ethereum was being attacked9:46 - ETH is not a tech stock: It's like gold or oil18:02 - The $80,000 ETH price target and how we get there20:39 - The four-year cycle is breaking: Liquidity vs. halving28:32 - Are we in a bear market or just a pullback?34:52 - The CLARITY Act: Crypto's biggest catalyst ever41:23 - Tokenization: The $100 trillion opportunity44:15 - Private blockchains are smoke and mirrors46:56 - DTCC is a dinosaur trying to survive52:22 - Vitalik's L2 tweet: What he actually meant1:00:06 - Rapid fire: ETH flips BTC, TVL matters most, scaling misconceptions1:03:05 - When clarity passes, what will the market get wrong?1:04:06 - What signal would tell us the BTC 4-year cycle is broken?1:05:46 - When will ETH reach new highs?1:06:26 - ETH hits $80K when TVL reaches $3 trillion1:07:13 - What could break Leo’s bull case?1:09:44 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Leo's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@l3olanza► Leo Lanza on X: https://x.com/leolanza------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and Leo all hold ETH.