The China in Africa Podcast

In this Lightning Round edition of the show, CAP Managing Editor Cobus van Staden and CAP Francophone Editor Geraud Neema break down three of the week's big stories. First, Cobus explains why African leaders would be well advised to closely follow the events at this week's U.S.-ASEAN summit in Washington, D.C. Then, the State Department's #2 official, Wendy Sherman, restated longstanding warnings about the risks African countries face when they use Huawei equipment. Finally, Geraud breakdown a complex mining dispute between a Chinese and an Australian company over which one will control a massive new lithium mine in the DRC. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ghana's worsening economic crisis is prompting concerns it will further erode the country's already weak environmental governance system that Chinese actors have profited from in the mining, fishing, and timber sectors. Meantime, local communities across the country suffer amid declining fish stocks, polluted waterways, and unregulated deforestation. Francis Xavier Tuokuu, a leading environmental scholar and a research fellow at the Ghana-based Afro-Sino Centre of International Relations contends that until there is new and better leadership that is actually willing to crack down on the corruption that Chinese and others use to their advantage, there is little hope the situation will improve. Francis joins Eric & Cobus from Keene, New Hampshire to discuss what, if anything, can be done. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Huawei's success in Africa is undeniable. It's built large swathes of the continent's telecom network and is an indispensable player at almost every layer of the African technology stack. But when it comes to transferring skills and technology, the company's record is a bit more checkered. Tin Hinane El Kadi, a doctoral student at the London School of Economics and an associate fellow at Chatham House, contends in a new report published by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace that in both Algeria and Egypt Huawei, Huawei generates a lot of good press about tech transfers but in reality does very little. Tin joins Eric & Cobus from London to discuss her findings and what's behind this apparent discrepancy. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @tinhinanel Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is undergoing some dramatic changes as Beijing pulls back on the massive loans that once defined it as the government is now forced to channel more funds domestically to bolster the country's slowing economy. Nowhere is that more evident than in Africa where we learned this week that lending in 2020 plunged 77% from the previous year to just $1.9 billion, a 16-year low. Cynthia Liao, a Schwarzman Academy Fellow in the Africa program at the London think tank Chatham House, has been closely following BRI developments in Africa and joins Eric & Cobus for a wide-ranging discussion on debt, climate change, and geopolitics. SHOW NOTES: Boston University: Chinese Loans to Africa Database: https://bit.ly/3Ls8dbZ JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @_CynthiaLiao Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A 2018 leaked report from Kenya's Auditor General sparked a years-long frenzy over whether the Port of Mombasa was put up as collateral against the loans from the China Exim Bank for the Standard Gauge Railway and could be seized in the event of a default. The story is now a foundational part of the "debt trap" lending narrative that continues to cloud Chinese infrastructure financing in Africa. A team led by Professor Deborah Brautigam, director of the China-Africa Research Initiative at Johns Hopkins University, spent the past two years researching the issue and concluded in a new report that the Auditor General was wrong in his assessment. Neither the Port of Mombasa nor any Kenyan asset was ever at risk of forfeiture to the Chinese. Deborah and two of her research colleagues, Vijay Bhalaki from Athena Infonomics and Paris-based attorney Laure Deron, join Eric & Cobus to discuss their findings. SHOW NOTES: The East African: Mombasa Port at risk as audit finds it was used to secure SGR loan: https://bit.ly/3Lgz76w The China-Africa Research Initiative: How Africa Borrows From China: And Why Mombasa Port is Not Collateral for Kenya's Standard Gauge: https://bit.ly/37D6i5H JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

As South African policymakers plot their country's economic revival from the past several years of worsening economic crisis, boosting the country's tech industry is going to play a pivotal role in their plans. Grace Yuehan Wang, a researcher at the South African National Research Foundation and a postdoctoral scholar at Stellenbosch University says China's mega technology hub Shenzhen could offer some valuable insights. Plus, CAP's Francophone Editor Geraud Neema joins us to discuss the 20-year prison sentence that was handed down to a Chinese national for brutally beating a Rwandan employee last year. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @jorgeheinel Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week marks the 67th anniversary of the Bandung Conference in Indonesia which brought together 29 Asian and African countries at the height of the Cold War and marked the beginning of what would later become the Non-Aligned Movement. Back then, more than a hundred countries were a part of this movement to avoid being drawn into the U.S.-Soviet dual and to foster greater ties within the so-called "Third World." Today, as Russia's ties with the U.S. revert to their Cold War chilliness and the U.S. standoff with China intensifies, there are new calls to revive the Non-Aligned Movement among developing countries. Former Chilean Ambassador and Boston University Research Professor Jorge Heine is among the most vocal proponents of creating what he calls "Non-Aligned 2.0." Ambassador Heine joins Eric & Cobus to explain why the time is right for countries in the Global South to start working more closely together with one another. SHOW NOTES: Africa, Latin America and the Active Non-Alignment Option by Jorge Heine: https://bit.ly/37pI0fq Ukraine Sanctions and the New Non-Aligned Movement by Cobus van Staden: https://bit.ly/3kcHdkN JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @jorgeheinel Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Acclaimed China scholar Elizabeth Economy join Eric & Cobus this week to discuss her new book for 2022 "The World According to China." It's important to note the interview with Elizabeth was recorded before Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the expanded outbreak of COVID-19 in China but it's nonetheless fascinating to see how prescient many of her comments were in the context of the current situation. Also, Cobus and Eric provide an update on the latest Chinese trade figures and how the severe flooding in South Africa's KwaZulu-Natal province may impact China's trade with Africa in the weeks ahead. Finally, CAP's Francophone Editor Geraud Neema joins the guys for an update on the new challenges facing Chinese mining companies in Guinea. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @lizeconomy | @christiangeraud Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

There's an emerging consensus among many leading international relations scholars that Russia's invasion of Ukraine marked the official end of the post-Cold War era and the beginning of, well... actually... no one's actually sure what's coming next but whatever it is China is definitely going to play a central role. China's framing of this emerging alternative international order is happening right now in Africa and the Middle East, according to a new book by Dawn Murphy, an associate professor at the U.S. Air War College. She joins Eric & Cobus from Alabama to discuss why these two regions, in particular, are so important to China's long-term geopolitical agenda. SHOW NOTES: Sandboxx: China Wants a Navy Base in Africa That Would Put America's East Coast in Reach by Alex Hollings: https://bit.ly/37MnxkI JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque | @DawnMurphyChina Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

During the last major Global South debt crisis in the late 1980s, the United States pioneered an initiative that bundled together all of these countries' debts into a bond that would then be re-packaged and sold to investors. These so-called "Brady Bonds" were very effective in giving many of the poorest, most indebted countries the breathing room they needed to recover. Now, as developing countries are confronting yet another debilitating debt crisis, an update to the Brady Bond idea is now circulating but this time it's coming from China, not the U.S. Just like a Brady Bond, the so-called Shanghai Model would roll up poor countries' debt into a bond asset and then sell it to investors. But there's a catch: rather than price it in dollars, the Shanghai Model would use Chinese yuan. Economists Ying Qian and Yan Wang from Boston University's Global Development Policy Center have been writing a lot lately about the Shanghai Model and exploring its viability. Ying joins Eric & Cobus from Washington, D.C. to discuss whether it really can replicate the success of the Brand Bond. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaAfrProject | @stadenesque Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfrica Project FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.