The Leadership Podcast

With every interaction, businesses win or lose share. Each touchpoint – be it with customers, distributors, or even employees – presents an opportunity to either build brand loyalty or erode it. Listen in as Jon Picoult shares how to create experiences that don't just satisfy, but impress. Jon is the author of "From Impressed to Obsessed: 12 Principles for Turning Customers and Employees into Lifelong Fans." He has worked with some of the world's foremost brands, personally advising CEOs and other members of the C-Suite. His insights have been featured by dozens of media outlets, including The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, USA Today, The Economist, Inc., NBC News and Forbes.com. Key Takeaways [3:25] Jon explains the difference between customer experience and customer service. They're not synonymous! [7:10] Another term that gets confused with customer experience is user experience. Jon breaks down how this is different. [8:45] With that being said, you cannot deliver excellent customer service without employees who are engaged. This means you do have to invest in your people if you want to see the overall customer experience improve. [11:45] Jon has seen time and time again executives not valuing the importance of customer experience. He realized he needed to talk in "executive" language to really drive the point home that happy customers equal a higher valued business. [14:05] Here is why this particular supermarket is the perfect example of what a good customer experience looks like. [16:55] Businesses are not only in the business of shaping the customer's experience. They are in the business of shaping the customer's memory. [21:15] The onboarding experience is often messy, and that's a bad thing because that's one of the first experiences your employees are going to see. [27:45] It's a job as a leader to make sure everyone in the organization understands their purpose and the reason why their jobs are critical and help the organization to run smoothly. Sitting down and just having a conversation about the importance of their impact goes a long way. [30:25] Humans are control freaks. We want to know where we're going at all times. Jon explains how that affects the customer when they're trying to do business with you. [33:15] You don't have to change the experience, you just have to give the appearance of control for the user to feel at ease. [37:30] There are huge turnover rates happening in the workforce right now. Leaders are scrambling, but the same techniques used to build loyalty in customers can also be used with employees! [43:20] If you boil this process down, it's all about making people feel good about the interaction they just had with you. [44:05] Listener challenge: Serve with distinction. Be accountable to your staff. Quotable Quotes "When you have high turnover it causes a deterioration in the customer experience." "The details because the details have the opportunity to shape people's perspectives." "To give people a perception of control, you're setting expectations for them. The minute you set expectations for them, you conform their thoughts to the experience and they know what's coming around the corner." "When people see a boss or a manager who's fighting for them, who's in their corner, who's helping them develop their career, those people will walk through walls for that person." Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Watermarkconsult.net Pre-order Jon's book, From Impressed to Obsessed: 12 Principles for Turning Customers and Employees into Lifelong Fans Jon on LinkedIn Jon on Twitter "TLP197: The Gift of Struggle" — Bobby Herrera

The Leadership Podcast co-hosts cover passive-aggressive behavior at work: Why it occurs; the toxic effect it has on people and the environment; ways to recognize it; and how to alter the conversation for a healthier culture. Key Takeaways [1:35] If you've got a question or an issue, just reach out to either Jim and Jan and they probably have a podcast episode to recommend to you! [2:50] Overview of passive-aggressive behavior in the workplace. [3:20] Some people read sarcastic statements as passive-aggressive statements. [4:15] The definition of passive-aggressive behavior. [5:35] Passive-aggressive behavior often occurs among exceptionally smart people with a low tolerance for others not living up to their standard. [9:10] Examples of what it looks like to be passive-aggressive. [11:10] Our brains can only handle about 150 relationships, yet we ask so much from our people when they're in 1,000-plus corporations. It's hard to keep up with everything. [12:10] Leaders are not thinking intentionally about how they want people to feel after they've interacted with them. [13:45] Some leaders just want to be known as "nice." Passive-aggressive behavior doesn't fit into that narrative. [18:10] The drama triangle explained. [20:05] At the end of the day, you gotta work with everybody. You don't have to like them, but you have to work with them. [24:50] Our brains shrink when we're grumpy! Practice joy instead. [25:45] How to make people feel cared for at work. [29:45] Most people aren't trained to deal with deep-seated issues or problems, so leaders need to step in, be attentive, and guide their people through. You do that by providing your perspective, asking open-ended questions, and practicing active listening. [32:05] "Are you operating with a sense of grace?" [34:05] Give your fellow human the benefit of the doubt. They're doing the best they can. We all are. [36:10] We used to live in a complicated world. We now live in a complex world. [36:40] The one thing we can control is being nice to one another. Quotable Quotes "It's really not safe to use sarcasm with someone you don't know really, really well." "Are these people going to be elevated and flourish under your interaction or are they going to be demoralized?" "You've gotta work with everybody. You've got to get along. You don't have to like everyone, but you've got to work with everybody." "What's the legacy of each interaction I want to have? How do I want them to feel after I interact with them?" Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Karpman Drama Triangle

In this episode, the hosts of the podcast dive into the leadership implications of upskilling and reskilling. With the certainty of uncertainty, leaders need to step back and take the time to interpret the meaningful outside, and the implications for talent acquisition and talent retention (get and keep employees). Listen in as Jim and Jan break it down. Key Takeaways [1:50] Today's topic is about upskilling and reskilling leadership! [5:20] Leaders know they have to scale, but how is the hard part.. [5:45] Jan shares how he likes to approach this big question mark on a lot of executives' plates. [8:10] In medical training, Jan learned to always touch the patient, even if you don't need to. Similarly, that's what people need in leadership right now - high touch (figuratively!). [12:15] We've all been to in-person trainings where the staff is completely disengaged. The virtual setting hasn't changed that employee disengagement. It's a tough spot for leaders to be in. [16:55] You can get into trouble when you're just trying to solve the problem without a deeper look at why that problem is happening in the first place. [19:45] Jim and Jan explore the idea of "gamification" in the workplace. [20:10] Instead of gamifying the experience, an alternative is to get people motivated enough to learn. [23:40] Anytime we invest in ourselves and educate ourselves, it creates options for us. [29:25] If you want to change for the better, you have to take something off your calendar to make progress on it. [32:35] Both Jim and Jan reflect on some of the best coaches they've had. [35:45] Curious teams that are active in their development are probably hitting their numbers. Quotable Quotes Learning and development is addressing the gap between current capacity/capabilities and required capacity/capabilities. "Oftentimes people think, 'I gotta go to this training.' And organizations have these lofty goals about these investments, and realize, if their people are not all in, they're burning their investment." You can get into trouble if you rush to a solution without understanding the root cause. I don't care about your certification badges. What value can you provide to my organization? Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com

Jason Randall is the author of Beyond The Superhero: Executive Leadership For The Rest Of Us. Jason lays the groundwork for what new leaders need to focus on in the first 90 days of their new role. He also shares how leaders, with impossible expectations, are able to meet the demands without losing their cape. Jason was named CEO of Questco, a Houston-area HR outsourcing company known for its can-do spirit and award-winning customer service in 2018. Jason studied accounting at the University of Missouri-Columbia, became a CPA for an international firm, then left to start a small franchise business with a lifelong friend. Key Takeaways [3:35] The superhero myth is this idea that you have to do all and be all in your executive position. [5:15] You need to go beyond the popular opinion of what leadership should be and dig deeper into what an effective leader actually is. [6:15] Leaders that face imposter syndrome have to be reminded that people backed you in the first place for a reason. [8:30] As new leaders, Jason outlines what they need to be thinking about during their first 90 days in office. [14:15] When Jason entered into a company culture people already loved, he knew he had to establish an emotional center as the new CEO. [16:20] Jason knew by entering into this ecosystem, there were going to be some key players that might have to be self-selected out.[19:20] Jason shares his thoughts on how to find good advisors in the company to get the real scoop a leader needs to know about the organization. [20:05] It's natural for a leader to not get the truth from his or her people… at first. [22:05] To curb disdain from your staff on particular decisions you're making as a leader, it's sometimes helpful to showcase your thought process in all transparency. However, it is a gift and it might not work for everyone. [26:50] Jason is well aware that his initial plan is often wrong. That's why he has the power of his team behind him, to help course correct. [29:15] Leaders are essential for establishing direction and the tone, but you must be aware of your ego in this process. If you think you've achieved what you've achieved alone, then you're missing what leadership is about. [31:15] Jason shares a leadership lesson he's learned over the years and how he's navigated crises throughout his career. [35:05] The time to plan is not when you're in a crisis, it's when you're at peace (relatively). [36:20] Listener challenge: What are some of the management challenges that you've overcome? Send them to Jason! Quotable Quotes "That leader has achieved the notoriety, the fame, the success, and the lasting impact because of their reluctance to do it all themselves." "You need to go beyond the popular opinion of what leadership should be and go deeper into what an effective leader actually is, and how they behave." "Assumptions lead you astray. Early in the role, you have the benefit of being able to ask the naive question." "As a new executive, you were selected for the role to make changes, to evaluate the sacred cows and determine which ones are worthy of worship, and which ones need to go along their way." Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Connect with Jason: Questco.net and Jason on LinkedIn Jason's latest book: Beyond The Superhero: Executive Leadership For The Rest Of Us, by Jason Randall

Luke Burgis is the author of Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life. Luke shares why we want what we want, and how to free ourselves from chasing unfulfilling desires. Adam Grant says that Luke makes a "startling case that many of our goals are merely reflections of what we think others want." Jonathan Haidt says that this "book will be of particular help for anyone who leads or manages people." Luke has founded and led multiple companies. He's currently entrepreneur-in-residence and director of programs at the Ciocca Center for Principled Entrepreneurship at the Catholic University of America, where he also teaches business and develops new education initiatives. He's also the founder and director of Fourth Wall Ventures, an incubator for people and companies that contribute to the formation of a healthy human ecology. He graduated from NYU Stern School of Business and later from a pontifical university in Rome, where he studied theology. Key Takeaways [2:25] Luke studied theology because he was seriously considering becoming a priest before he decided to become an entrepreneur. [5:45] The nature of our desire is often social. Our desire is not me-centric, it's often we-centric. Luke breaks this down. [6:55] Real freedom is hidden in social context. What we want out of our life is shaped by those around us. [10:55] We often do not have the language to describe why we want the things that we want. [12:35] A leader should always be pointing to a purpose, a desire, that's beyond themselves. [14:50] Our world has shifted from fulfilling our survival needs (food, water, shelter) to coping with an abundance of desire. [16:15] Understanding our desire and what we actually want for ourselves is going to be one of the most important questions for people in the next five to 10 years. [18:10] We have more examples of what "happiness" looks like than ever before. All you have to do is look to social media for someone you can model after. [20:45] Luke shares his thoughts on how to discover ahead of time what desires are most unfulfilling. [26:50] Our desires are being questioned more than ever before because the pandemic made us stop and assess what's truly important. [32:55] Businesses are meant to help us thrive, but business has a dark side too; offering services that hurt the community and your sense of self. [36:55] A CEO made "happiness" his mantra for his company, and it didn't end too well. [41:00] Luke shares his early entrepreneurial days and some of the vital lessons he learned around them. [44:45] Listener challenge: Take some time to figure out your authentic desires and the desires of those that work for you. Quotable Quotes "Desires are formed through social processes." "We often do not have the language to describe why we want the things that we want. We just have a vague sense that we want something." "In no other time in society, in the history of humanity, do we have the ability to focus on our wants versus our needs." For the first time in human history, humans are coping with abundance. Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Connect with Luke: Lukeburgis.com and Luke on LinkedIn Luke's latest books: Wanting: The Power of Mimetic Desire in Everyday Life & Unrepeatable: Cultivating the Unique Calling of Every Person "This Is Water," by David Foster Wallace

Jim Detert is the author of Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work - a research-based guide for standing up and speaking out skillfully at work. Have you ever wanted to disagree with your boss? Speak up about your company's lack of diversity or unequal pay practices? Make a tough decision you knew would be unpopular? In this episode, Jim discusses the moral imperative and research-based tactics to help you become more competently courageous at work. Doing for courage what Angela Duckworth has done for grit and Brene Brown for vulnerability, Jim explains that courage isn't a character trait that only a few possess; it's a virtue developed through practice. Jim is also a professor at the Darden Graduate School of Business and the Batten School of Leadership and Public Policy at the University of Virginia. Key Takeaways [4:25] When we think of courage, we often think of our heroes; the military and firefighters; but Jim has a different definition of what courage looks like in the workplace. [6:25] Unfortunately, work has a lot of risks and people are often afraid to speak up. You can be seen as courageous just by simply doing your job and doing what's right. [9:25] Jim breaks down the difference between being inspired by something vs. being inspired to do something. [10:10] It was important to Jim to tell and highlight stories the everyday person can relate to. [11:50] Jan explains what compassionate candor looks like. [13:10] It's the leader's job to take on risks, apologize, and be there for their people. Courage comes when there is a baseline safety within an organization. [17:45] People often view workplace courage as an act, but it doesn't have to be. It's actually a process. Jim explains more about how courage really works. [21:40] By having options, by being highly sought after in their field, it's easier for people to be courageous. [25:05] People are fed up. Instead of trying to fix a broken organization from within, they'd rather completely opt out and resign. [30:10] The jury is still out on how fundamental the changes are going to be that the pandemic has had on society. [32:35] As people are leaving the workforce, we have to also look at the people who are staying in the workforce, and really evaluate if their needs are being met. [34:45] Your inner dialogue can completely distort your entire reality and make it harder for you to work with your external dialogue. [38:35] Leaders need to shift the frame from "you" language to "we" language. Aim to create win-win scenarios and try not to alienate your people with the words you use. [41:10] Listener challenge: Choose courage and decide today to take one step towards that. Quotable Quotes "By presenting stories of every race, gender, political persuasion, and income level, I hope people let go of that myth that courage is for someone special." You don't need courage to have difficult conversations. You need to care about your people so deeply you are able to compassionately provide candid feedback. Work on the inner dialogue so as to not destroy the external dialogue. Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Connect with Geoff: Jimdetert.com and Jim on LinkedIn Jim's latest book: Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave At Work Amy C. Edmondson James G. Clawson

In Provoke: How Leaders Shape the Future by Overcoming Fatal Human Flaws, renowned strategy consultant and best-selling author Geoff Tuff explains how people tend to act tentatively in the face of uncertainty, and shares the tools we need to do things differently. Key Takeaways [3:50] Geoff loves being in ironic situations and exploring the concept of true irony. [4:50] At the core, Geoff is a behaviorist and loves to watch people and spot them in ironic situations. [7:15] If you're trying to be ironic, then you're not acting within the humility that's required in a leader. [11:00] Geoff's newest book, Provoke, is about empowering leaders to lead in times of uncertainty. [11:40] Every single day, leaders manage risk by using data to make educated decisions. In times of uncertainty, there's no metric you can use to make things certain again. Instead, you have to provoke a reaction in the market to test new waters. [16:00] Geoff shares some of the common cognitive biases we all have. [18:20] People aren't evolving fast enough. We have these biases for a reason: survival. Leaders can overcome it, but they can't do it alone. [21:20] It's hard for the brain to come up with, and think through, some of these complex technological thought experiments because we've never really had to live in that environment before. This is why you need cognitive diversity. [21:45] By having a diverse set of opinions, you're able to see a wide range of different paths in front of you. [23:30] AI can only get us so far. We still need human imagination to curate the AI experience. [26:15] There are five behaviors that make you a provoker, but you use each one differently based on context. [29:00] Geoff explains why the act of sailing and sailors tend to have a natural ability to lead during times of uncertainty. [34:30] Sports are zero-sum games. You either win or you lose. In business, it doesn't have to be that way. You can call your own shots. [37:45] The most complicated action to take is "activation" to rally those around you for maximum collaboration potential. The ability for any individual organization to own a space or to do it alone is declining. You have to be a partner in the ecosystem if you want to succeed. [39:50] If your people are scared about the unknown, the key to breaking out of this is by taking small steps. [41:45] Geoff shares a client success story and how they used Provoke principles to break out of uncertainty. [46:20] Listener challenge: What made you successful so far is not going to continue to make you successful. Quotable Quotes "Sarcasm is not a way to win friends and influence people." "Ask a question to provoke a thought process in a way that elicits a response about the unknown." We need a much wider field of vision to reduce cognitive biases. Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Connect with Geoff: Deloitte.com and Geoff on LinkedIn Geoff books: Detonate: Why — And How — Corporations Must Blow Up Best Practices (and bring a beginner's mind) To Survive & Provoke: How Leaders Shape the Future by Overcoming Fatal Human Flaws Loonshots: How to Nurture the Crazy Ideas That Win Wars, Cure Diseases, and Transform Industries, by Safi Bahcall & Safi on The Leadership Podcast Harrisiii.com & Harris III on The Leadership Podcast Pacesetting with Yvonne Scott on The Leadership Podcast

Sandra Sucher is a professor of management practice at Harvard Business School and an internationally recognized researcher on the subject of trust. Sandra shares her research findings about trust, and why leaders are often working against their natural instincts once they've been promoted. Trust is not just one thing we have to develop, it's four things. Sponsored by... Cultivate Grit. Amplify Action. Get The Importance of Journaling We help YOU enjoy the success we've already enjoyed. Free downloads of Quick Reference Guides on Delegation, Time Management, Sales, and more. Key Takeaways [3:55] There are six different kinds of apologies that you can make. [7:25] It's so hard to apologize when you know your intentions were good. [8:20] The four elements of trust are: Competence Motives Means Impact [10:55] Jim tends to see a lot of people failing at competence when trying to build trust. [14:55] The very behaviors that make you trustworthy can also begin to disappear when you become a leader. Sandra dives deeper into this and what research has shown. [16:25] Just by being the leader, you can stop caring about your peers and turn inward and act selfishly. Absolute power corrupts absolutely is a true statement. [17:35] We're asking a lot from our leaders. We are almost asking them to act against their natural instincts. [21:00] Sandra answers the questions on whether "selfless leaders" are truly trustworthy. [23:35] We don't always have to like a person in order for us to trust someone. [25:35] If you just look at survey results in the Net Promoter Score system, you're missing a wide variety of details and information your customers are telling you. [26:55] With the increase in AI and the use of technology to determine if someone is trustworthy, Sandra explores whether we should rely on the data or rely on our gut instead. [32:05] Here are three questions you should be asking your employees: How has your COVID-19 been? How have we done as a business? What's one challenge that you face in this new world that we can help you with? [35:25] We tend to focus on whether a leader is trustworthy, but there's more of an emphasis today on whether a company can be trusted. [40:45] Trust is a relationship that's running in the background at all times. You will always have opportunities to earn it and to lose it. [41:15] Listener challenge: Take a long-term perspective on building trust. It takes time, but work at it bit by bit. Quotable Quotes "Trust is built from the inside out. It's impossible to be trusted by people outside of your firm if you're not trusted inside the firm." "Leaders have to work harder to regain their empathy." "You can build trust either at the brand level and the company level. Hopefully, it's both." "All companies are being evaluated on whether they're trustworthy right now. There's no moment that's 'trust free'." Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com Connect with Sandra: hbs.edu/faculty and Sandra on LinkedIn Sandra's book: The Power of Trust: How Companies Build It, Lose It, Regain It Vincenzo (TV series) The Future of Trust

res·ig·na·tion /ˌrezəɡˈnāSH(ə)n/ noun an act of retiring or giving up a position."he announced his resignation" the acceptance of something undesirable but inevitable."a shrug of resignation" Join Jim and Jan in a unique episode as they share their latest thoughts about talent - acquisition, retention and meaning. We are seeing a huge reshuffle taking place, and Jim and Jan explore the reasons behind this seismic shift, and what it may mean for each generation of leaders. Listen in on what you can do today that will have an effect for years to come. Sponsored by... Cultivate Grit. Amplify Action. Get The Importance of Journaling We help YOU enjoy the success we've already enjoyed. Free downloads of Quick Reference Guides on Delegation, Time Management, Sales, and more. Key Takeaways [5:30] Jan shares some of the biggest problems leaders are facing today. [6:00] Leaders are just losing people. There's a great resignation happening. [9:45] Leaders are currently reacting instead of taking a step back and going through the framework of motivation and what really drives people. [10:45] Leaders often blame themselves when things go wrong. It's a very me-centric stance. Leaders need to remember it's a two-way street. [11:35] Jim uses the three-legged stool analogy on how leaders can best find balance. [16:15] Everything you want in life, you're faced with choice points. If you want one thing, it means taking time away from another equally important area of life (like spending time with family). [21:00] Don't paint yourself into a corner by lack of foresight. Think strategically. Think several moves ahead. You need to play a bit of chess when it comes to your longevity. [22:15] With that being said, you don't want to keep too many of your options open because it makes you lose focus and stops you from making a vital decision point. [26:55] Gallup did a great study on what makes employees engaged. Six of the strategies presented cost nothing! [30:00] People will move from company to company just to be with you. That's the metric of good leadership. [32:10] Be open to bad news. If you thought you were a great boss but "the pandemic made them leave," think again. It might have just been the excuse your employees needed to leave. [33:05] No one wants to feel like another cog in the machine. Jan offers ways to show how to care, really care, for your people. [35:35] Some of Jan's best bosses could call him up today and he'd do anything for them. [38:40] Now is a perfect time for leaders to assess how they did during the crisis and how they're doing now. [38:50] Make sure that 40% of your workers are not looking for better opportunities. [41:05] Listener challenge: Keep trying to keep things in balance and find those subtle cracks. Also, get better at building your self-awareness. Quotable Quotes "What's interesting about the great resignation is it's an edge-case scenario. An edge-case scenario exposes cracks and flaws. We're pressure-testing the system." "The pandemic raised the level of anxiety and stress for a lot of people. Sometimes it's not what you did as a leader, it's the problems people are having in their life." 'Am I easy to follow?' People want to feel like they are cared for as humans first - workers second. Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com. Gallup's Q12 Employee Engagement Survey Robert Cialdini Dale Carnegie

As leaders focus on short-term results, tactical issues, quarterly numbers, and the crisis of the day, Kim Cameron shares an untapped and hidden resource that provides four-times better results. This is Kim Cameron's second appearance on The Leadership Podcast, and he shares how leaders can be effective energizers for short-term yield, and long-term gain. Kim is a Professor at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. Listen in as one of the most influential minds discusses the science of positivity. Sponsored by... Cultivate Grit. Amplify Action. Get The Importance of Journaling We help YOU enjoy the success we've already enjoyed. Free downloads of Quick Reference Guides on Delegation, Time Management, Sales, and more. Key Takeaways [3:50] Kim shares what the heliotropic effect is and how humans prosper around light and positive energy. [7:45] Good leaders help other people flourish. Energy plays an important role in the workforce because it means the right people can brighten the entire office, and the wrong people can suck the good energy dry. [8:40] Empirical evidence says that positive leaders produce excellent bottom-line results. [10:00] Positive energy and lighting up a room with your presence should not be confused with extroverted or introverted people. These are two separate things. [11:15] A study showed that people who made positive phone calls to those they loved were eight times healthier than those who received a positive phone call. [13:35] Kim shares an example of how Delta Airlines rewards its customers. [17:00] Children as young as three months old can actively recognize good and virtuous acts. [21:20] People are willing to give up salary, vacation days, and more so that they can work in a place that has meaning. [23:45] You don't need to wait for management to develop a meaningful job purpose for you. You can create your own job's purpose. Kim shares an example of what this looks like. [26:55] If you'd like to create and measure a baseline of positive energy in your organization, start by creating an energy network map. [29:15] So many leaders do not realize the power of having a positive energizer on their team. It is an untapped resource that creates a 4X better impact. [35:00] Positive impact doesn't just apply to workplace situations. It can be applied as a parent, too. [39:25] Listener challenge: What's the best thing you did for somebody today? Quotable Quotes "Leaders who help other people flourish … tend to be generous." "Positive energizing leaders are those who help other people flourish." "On an individual level, people can, and should, craft their own jobs." "Does anybody get rewarded or recognized, or hired, for being a positive energizer? It is 4X more important in predicting performance than what we normally measure!" Resources Mentioned Sponsored by: Darley.com. Connect with Kim: Michiganross.umich.edu Kim's latest book: Positively Energizing Leadership: Virtuous Actions and Relationships That Create High Performance Kim's prior guest appearance on The Leadership Podcast.