By-The-Bywater: A Podcast about All Things J.R.R. Tolkien

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: resisting Tolkien. With Jared’s long-awaited and happily long-hyped-by-us debut novel The West Passage due later in the month, we wanted to celebrate that by picking an appropriate theme that tied that together with our general focus. There’s long been a stereotype that fantasy was so forever changed and codified by Tolkien that seemingly everything that followed in its wake was essentially marked by it, sometimes in outrageously obvious fashion. But the truth has always been that as much as Tolkien left an impact, there have been authorial voices in the field from his time to now that have advanced critiques or demonstrated by example that there’s a much wider range of possibilities, something that the 21st century has shown in particular even as Tolkien’s profile exploded to new heights in the wake of the live action movie adaptations. With Jared answering questions about how he considered his own work and creativity as a longtime reader not trying to simply reinvent the wheel, we look more closely at our own thoughts as readers and writers about where Tolkien functions for us as an example to not specifically emulate, or to maybe even push back upon at points, if in a sublimated fashion. Also there was a LOT of news of Tolkien adaptations in general that’s come out and we had things to say, sometimes in a very pained voice. Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. And if you’re wondering who these figures are it’s because… The West Passage is here! (Or about here but definitely here this month!) Order locally or through Bookshop or the like, please. And as Jared says at the end of the episode, Seattle-area folks, please attend the release event on July 17th at Third Place Books Ravenna! Jared’s The Sewers of Paris appearance. (Look for future appearances on Turn The Page and Dragonmount.)  Oriana’s short film Kickstarter! Check it out! Support it if you can, or at least spread the word! The new paperback version of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil is out in August. TheOneRing.net with reports from Annecy on The War of the Rohirrim panel as well as a separate interview with Philippa Boyens. The Rings of Power season two teaser trailer. Yup. Sure is. Vanity Fair’s piece showing Tom Bombadil is going to be in The Rings of Power. What? Variety’s piece on The Hunt For Gollum.  Edmund Wilson! Influential? Sure. Pleasant? The jury is out. “Oo, Those Awful Orcs!” was rather high profile. (W. H. Auden’s much different piece was as well.) Guy Gavriel Kay and his work is well worth checking out. “Epic Pooh,” Michael Moorcock’s 1978 essay out on a tear against Tolkien and others. China Miéville has had some thoughts on Tolkien, indeed. Definitely pick up the republished Ursula K. le Guin collection The Language of the Night, where “From Elfland from Poughkeepsie” can be found. George R. R. Martin’s comment on Aragorn’s tax policy, originally from a 2014 interview from Rolling Stone, can be found here. “If Tolkien Were Black,” a Salon piece from 2011 featuring David Anthony Durham and N. K. Jemisin. Marlon James’s 2019 Tolkien lecture “Our Myths, Our Selves.” The full Terry Pratchett quote on Tolkien with the Mt. Fuji comparison. Gormenghast forever! (If you will.) David Lynch and evil, there’s a lot out there. (This essay looks at his famed Hiroshima-and-after episode from Twin Peaks: The Return.) The Poppy War is the first in a series by R. F. Kuang, while Tasha Suri was the British fantasy author with a South Asian background Ned was thinking of. The Once and Future King by T. H. White, his famed Arthurian retelling.  Fritz Leiber, Jack Vance, Lord Dunsany, all worth checking out. But Lloyd Alexander and Prydain, DEFINITELY check that out. Stephen King, you might have heard of him, who can say? (This piece delves a bit into his own admitted Tolkien fandom and The Dark Tower.) Also Ned got it wrong a bit, The Stand is clearly a post-disaster story but not post-nuclear! John Crowley is well, well worth your time. And yes, if you want more info on the book event Ned is ‘in conversation with’ in August in San Francisco, here ya go! Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared’s choice of topic: allegory and applicability. In a much-referenced section from his introduction to the second edition of The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien wrote: “I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned – with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” It’s been a point of discussion ever since in both specific Tolkien critical discussion and general fandom circles – and we’ve certainly referenced it quite a lot over the years – with the distinctions between the two terms and what they are meant to further represent not always clear or universally agreed on, even as readings of Tolkien across the map consider what Middle-earth and its inhabitants consider widely varying perspectives on what the work can be said to represent. What were the evident divisions between Tolkien and his friend and colleague C. S. Lewis on allegory in their work, and how did both of them speak about it and each other’s approach in turn? Where does Tolkien’s perceived modernism – and potential postmodernism – factor into how he was stated to consider allegory in writings beyond the famous quote? How is his seeming hostility to allegory squared with his most overtly allegorical work, “Leaf By Niggle”? And what part of you is a little bunny, or is the little bunny you – or are you a middle manager?  Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Much will be explained when you listen to the episode itself. The return of the original Jackson LOTR trilogy to the theaters: cool. The fact it’s in the crappy 4K version: not as. Bernard Hill’s passing is a damn shame. Here’s just some of the many reactions. Allegory! Maybe you remember the English or literature class where you first heard the term, or maybe it was somewhere else, or… C. S. Lewis knew allegory? And used it in his Narnia books? The deuce you say. Vermeer’s work is also known as The Art of Painting, and it’s well known indeed. Our episode on Tree and Leaf, including both “On Fairy-Stories” and “Leaf by Niggle.” Letter 109 from the collected letters, as summarized by Tolkien Gateway. Animal Farm! It’s pretty well known, it is. And boy is it allegorical. It Can’t Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis sure did get some new attention in recent years. Wonder why? The Pilgrim’s Progress and The Faerie Queene, oh they thrive on allegory! And they thrive on not being Catholic, the latter especially. Our Beowulf episode. Letter 241 from the collected letters, again via Tolkien Gateway. Ah, smol beans.  Allegory versus myth? There’s a lot of randomness out there. On the Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius is one of the most well known works in the general field – and boy is it allegorical. (Our friends over at The Spouter-Inn did an episode on it.) The Tolkien versus Lewis cartoon on allegory. It is pretty great. Greta Gerwig and Narnia…we’re still wondering about that. The Collected Letters of C.S. Lewis are out there. Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: the Rohirrim. As personified most clearly by three key members of its royal family – the elderly but reenergized king Théoden, his passionate, driven niece Éowyn and his equally loyal and fearless nephew Éomer – the people of Rohan come across in The Lord of the Rings as a noble people, proud but warm-hearted, willing allies to both surviving members of the Fellowship after its breaking and to their long-time geopolitical partner Gondor, whose Stewards long ago gave the land that became their kingdom to them. Yet more than once in the narrative there are signs that this was not a universally welcome situation to other peoples of the area, as well as moments that seem to suggest a casual cruelty – or much worse – at the heart of the Riddermark in its history, something further underlined by the short history of the nation Tolkien created for the book’s appendices. With a key story from that short history soon to be dramatized via the anime production The War of the Rohirrim later this year, a look into these complexities is well worth considering. What are the possible connections to Tolkien’s own understanding of imperialism and colonialism, both as he directly experienced it and in the larger context of his legendarium? How do the jarring moments that suggest something darker in Rohan’s ruling elite and its soldiers play out across the centuries, and is there a wider complicity with attitudes that adaptations like Peter Jackson’s put more to the fore? What kind of possible wish fulfillment was Tolkien looking for in creating the Rohirrim, as he discussed it himself in his letters and other conversations? And just how wound up is Helm anyway if he can kill someone with one punch? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. It says it all. (If you need a little context…) Look, we know we keep saying it, but you really can preorder The West Passage, and you should! Rose City Comic Con! Happening in September! Go see Jared! The redone revival of the Lord of the Rings musical comes to Chicago, so check it out for more info. (And don’t forget our episode on the original production.) A report on Paul Corfield Godfrey’s planned Lord of the Rings opera from TheOneRing.net The Rohirrim! There’s been a lot thought and written about them. The War of the Rohirrim is due later this year indeed, after having its original March opening date changed due to last year’s strikes. Our Ghân-buri-Ghân episode, with more on the Druedain. The Dunlendings kinda really just get the shaft throughout history. When you’re talking the Roman Empire and then the Anglo-Saxons, the Welsh did go through a lot. The Tough Guide to Fantasyland is truly, truly wonderful, funny and essential. All hail Diana Wynne Jones! Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan is the specific chapter in Unfinished Tales. Ted Nasmith’s second painting of the key scene is his favored one, but the first one works too. TheOneRing.net’s summary of the Annecy panel last year. Helm Hammerhand. He’s…well, he’s got anger issues. “FATALITY!”  And yes, Shōgun was pretty goddamn great. Anna Sawai in particular. The Habsburgs did at least escape the Romanov fate. (Karl is the current head.) Our Éowyn episode! The rider who encountered Théoden en route to Helm’s Deep was Ceorl. Not the exact Anglo-Saxon horse head Ned was thinking of but this one from a Staffordshire find is quite something. And then there’s the Sutton Hoo burial mound and what was found within… Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: Terry Brooks’s debut novel The Sword of Shannara. Released in 1977 after the author had been working on it for almost a decade, The Sword of Shannara became a massive publishing success for its then-new imprint Del Rey Books, helping to establish the viability of fantasy literature as a steady and profitable part of the book business as a whole, as well as starting Brooks’s continuing writing career with a bang. At the same time, more than a few voices said in response to that success and the book itself that it was pretty clearly using The Lord of the Rings as a model, its own author having now been conveniently dead for a few years at the time of publication. This, as it happens, is a massive understatement – and more to the point it is an absolutely awful book, the success of which seen through the eyes of nearly fifty years later is almost impossible to imagine given both the expansion of the field in general and the fact that Tolkien is no longer solely the lodestone for young writers to look towards. What makes Brooks’s work so remarkably un-Tolkien-like despite taking on many of its trappings, and are those trappings used well to start with? How does Brooks’s desire to create a rollicking adventure story/page-turner play out in terms of actual story dynamics, character development and other rather important things a good book should have? How do the key themes of Tolkien in general not apply – or rather, get heavily misapplied or transformed – in Brooks’s vision of a post-apocalyptic fantasy world? And do Jared and Oriana still wish Ned ill fortune for having made them read this? (Audibly so, yes.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. If only the book were this exciting. Five years indeed! If you want the full story of how we all got started, as mentioned, Ned talks about that in the introduction to our live episode aka Episode 50 from last year. The big news about The Collected Poems of J.R.R. Tolkien, as reported on by Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull, its editors. The not-so-big, in fact really annoying, news about The Rings of Power Season 3 already being worked on. Lovely. Really. The Sword of Shannara! It’s a book! Sure is a book! Dan Sinykin’s 2023 Slate article “The Man Who Invented Fantasy,” which details Lester Del Rey’s career and role in bringing Brooks to wider attention as part of his overall plans for Del Rey with his wife Judy-Lynn. So now you know who to blame. The Brothers Hildebrandt being recruited as the illustrators was a good move from a publishing point of view, especially then. Gene Wolfe’s defense of Brooks is in his essay “The Best Introduction to the Mountains.” Our Dennis McKiernan/Silver Call duology episode. Our episode on the orcs. Gnomes they are not. Brooks’s TED talk “Why I Write About Elves”. You want to watch The Shannara Chronicles? Enjoy. Without us. Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared’s choice of topic: Beowulf. The famed Old English poem, the longest extant poetic work in general preserved in that language, almost accidentally survived over the years until it became more widely recognized in the 1700s, including surviving a fire. It has since become a cornerstone of studies of English literature, telling the story of a heroic Geat warrior who defeats two monstrous presences on a visit to an afflicted Danish kingdom, and who in later years as an aging king slays a dragon at the cost of his life and, it is strongly implied, his kingdom’s. Tolkien knew the work thoroughly and regularly taught it in his academic career, leading to both a prose translation and various notes and commentaries that Christopher Tolkien presented and edited for a 2015 publication. But besides the notable connections that can be made between the poem and elements of his own legendarium, Tolkien has a further place in Beowulf scholarship thanks to his most famed academic work, the 1936 lecture “Beowulf: The Monsters and The Critics,” which single-handedly reframed the poem from being primarily seen as a historical document to being considered as a remarkable work of imagination. What are some of the key differences between Beowulf’s world and ethos and Tolkien’s own reworking of it into his legendarium, in terms of character, society and more? What points does Tolkien bring up in his lecture that provides a deeper insight into how he was not only arguing for the Beowulf poet – whoever it might be – but also placing his own work into that lineage? How do the portrayals of the various monsters Beowulf faces differ, and what in particular makes Grendel’s mother such a fascinating character? And how many moments per episode are points raised and then suddenly realized to be maybe not accurate? (Sorry about that.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Gotta be careful with dragons. Ooooooh boy, the angst this Fellowship of Fans post unleashed in some corners when it came to Rings of Power rumors. (On a side note, RoP’s Morfydd Clark is in the new two part Agatha Christie Murder is Easy adaptation on Britbox and is unsurprisingly really good!) The whole Matthew Weiner spoiler-war thing re Mad Men was a thing. Was it ever a thing. Here’s a sample. Beowulf! You might have heard of it. Plenty of translations freely available, and of course there’s Seamus Heaney and Maria Dahvana Headley and etc. And yes there’s Tolkien’s too. “HWAET!” (Tolkien allegedly really loved to get his students’ attention by delivering this full on.) If you haven’t read “Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics,” we really do encourage this. (And picking up the full essay anthology too, key pieces like “A Secret Vice” and “On Fairy-Stories” are included among others.) Kennings are very cool. (But please avoid ‘whale road.’) Imagining Tolkien delivering this to the other Beowulf critics is something wild to think about. There’s a wide variety of pieces about the women of Beowulf out there; here’s one that provides a general summary and consideration about them. If you’d like to see the Nowell Codex, head on over to the British Library, physically or virtually. We’ve mentioned E. R. Eddison before. Definitely NOT Tolkien. The full historical background that Beowulf draws on is definitely there, though treating the poem as a history itself is not the way to go. Here’s a useful piece tackling the history as such. The Geats aren’t around as such anymore, and there are reasons for that… It’s not directly mentioned in the episode but Tolkien did write and lecture about one of the ‘side’ stories in Beowulf, with the results published in the book Finn and Hengest. Did we mention we’re not impressed with Silicon Valley’s take on Tolkien? Grendel’s mother is, no question, awesome. Kenneth Grahame’s “The Reluctant Dragon” – definitely not Smaug. “Sellic Spell” really is interesting, and may be the most notable part of the volume it’s published in. Michael Crichton’s Eaters of the Dead! (But avoid The 13th Warrior.) A last little bonus: didn’t bring it up in the episode but Ned remembered seeing Robert Macneil’s 1986 documentary series on PBS The Story of English back when it first ran, and the second episode, “The Mother Tongue,” has a brief bit discussing Beowulf and how it might have been performed as a song, as well as a separate section on the impact of the Viking invasions on English as a language led by noted Tolkien scholar and academic descendant Tom Shippey. Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon, and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: Silicon Valley’s misinterpretation and fetishization of Tolkien. Tolkien of course lived in a time where computers were mostly huge rooms containing one machine or two that he doubtless considered little more than another example of why the industrial age didn’t suit his mindset on many fronts. But in the half-century since his death the PC era up through smartphones and TikTok have made the industry one of the biggest and most influential in the world – which is the problem. The issues discussed are hardly limited to them but two of its most well-known and notorious avatars in recent years, Peter Thiel and his protege Palmer Luckey, have among other things named various businesses of questionable use and worth (at best) after characters and terms from Tolkien’s legendarium as part of their general quest to own everything and be everywhere whether one likes it or not. There is, however, the small problem that they think they might be Aragorns when it’s much more accurate to call them Saruman and Wormtongue. What are the roots of Thiel’s own particular worldview in particular, shaped by colonial legacies of the kind that Tolkien himself notably loathed? What are the various poisonous ironies of naming particular businesses after certain Tolkien-derived terms considering their original meaning and what they now represent? Can the Tolkien Estate themselves actually do anything about the use and misuse of such terms to start with? And why in the world did Thiel think that a good choice of quote from Tolkien was in fact a quote from an original Rankin-Bass song instead? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Remember, the idea is to NOT be this kind of person. Queen Margrethe bows out, and hey, why not enjoy retirement? One of various pieces on Margrethe’s Tolkien illustrations, with some relevant samples. We share TheOneRing.net’s piece mentioned for reasons of completeness. Our eyes remain gimlet. Never invent the torment nexus. Peter Thiel. Great. Just great. The biography Oriana and Jared read for the episode was Max Chafkin’s The Contrarian. Techno-fascism! RETVRN! Terms that should not exist but here we are. Umberto Eco’s “Ur-Fascism” is worth your time. Palantir Technologies. Oh, how lovely. Human rights, what are those! And why are they even slightly involved with the NHS? (Beyond Tories being Tories.) Palmer Luckey. Another piece of work, for fun! Founder of Anduril Industries, about which this 2018 Wired article reveals more maybe than anyone involved intended. Ah, Ready Player One and Ernest Cline. We’re…not fans. If you want to know our thoughts on “The Greatest Adventure” and more besides, enjoy our Rankin-Bass Hobbit episode… That whole taking your money with you when you die thing, jeez. Mother Jones with the details. As Ned said, go the Chinese burial money route instead. The Last Ringbearer aka the Russian LOTR revamp, as we’ve referred to before. Wicked the book is not Wicked the musical. (Soon to be Wicked the movie musical.) Tim Alberta’s book, which probably isn’t light nighttime reading, is The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. This excerpt mentioned focuses on his father’s church; the further anecdote recalled is from another piece elsewhere, possibly by Alberta. Tolkien Gateway has some of the further details from Unfinished Tales on palantir technology as such. The TechCrunch article about Anduril Industries’s rather paranoid geopolitical dreams. Quick reminder about our orcs episode and the various issues that crop up with them. (Plus the Scouring of the Shire episode.) Blood in the Machine by Brian Merchant takes a proper historical look at the Luddites as part of a meditation on labor and Big Tech in the present. Thiel buying his New Zealand citizenship was not great! At least James Cameron put in the time and actually did stuff. Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon! You can hang out with us in a friendly little Discord if you do.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. Following the publication of his official biography of Tolkien, Humphrey Carpenter worked with Christopher Tolkien to edit and present a selection of Tolkien’s letters across the decades, originally appearing in Containing both a large swathe of personal detail about his life as an aspiring academic and young father, then an established professor and finally an increasingly popular author, it also presented a large amount of background information on Middle-earth via his exchanges with publishers, writers and readers, including some long letters that have remained touchstones of information on his creative process since. In late 2023, a new edition was published, which featured the entirety of the original selection that Carpenter and Christopher had created but had to trim down for initial publication, revealing various new facets of interest in particular about his own personal beliefs and philosophies across time. What areas of Tolkien’s life remain relatively undiscussed or absent from the presented letters, and what can we deduce from the estate’s choices to possibly not let that material be shared out? How do the ‘new’ letters in particular fill out our understanding of Tolkien’s Catholic beliefs, especially in the context of mass and creative culture? Is there something to be said in how Tolkien may have changed or otherwise introduced more nuance into some of his more sweeping statements about women in his private correspondence as he aged, especially in contrast to his fellow Inklings? And finally, who wouldn’t want to be the fly on the wall for that conversation between Tolkien, Robert Graves and Ava Gardner? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Something about a lovely start to a letter… Remember, join the Megaphonic Patreon! Listen to us and everyone else talk about the movie musical Scrooge! (Spoiler: we were not pleased.) Did we mention preordering Jared’s book? Let’s mention it again. Here’s preorder info for that British Library talk on Twenty First Century Tolkien. Looks like it could be good! In which writing an unauthorized sequel to The Lord of the Rings further goes askew. Demetrious Polychron really, really does try. But. Our Dennis McKiernan/Silver Call duology episode. It really is better in comparison! Ah, cotillions. Look, you want them, have them, but maybe not around the Shire? AO3…waits. The letters! (New edition that is!) It is a very, very thick book. Letter 131 is a doozy! These days it’s most often seen appended to the more recent edition of The Silmarillion. That withdrawn article on Edith Bratt, as much as remains in the journal listing. Who knows? Zero inbox, the blessed and unachievable state. Worth briefly noting The Tolkien Family Album, written and presented by John (the younger) and Priscilla Tolkien. Vatican II’s impact is still very much with us… The Power Broker once again. (Consider our episode on evil.) Yeahhhhhh the Spanish Civil War. Not pretty at all. Tolkien and anarchism, there’s a lot of talk about that out there. (Tolkien balancing out anarchism and monarchism? Somehow he did it…) As for the Shire as society and what it does or doesn’t have, consider our episode (and the Gollum one with the murder mystery!) The Song of Bernadette! It really hit Tolkien hard, this film. (Vincent Price in fact played “Vital Dutour, Imperial Prosecutor” but he would have been a great Mary.) And hey if you ever want to visit Lourdes… Milton and Tolkien would have been at total odds in terms of religion but they absolutely agreed on the joy of sex. (Do a search for the line “This said unanimous, and other rites” and read further.) Our episode on Aldarion and Erendis. Still a remarkable story. Gloria Steinem as a Tolkien correspondent, that’s a vision. C.S Lewis and women…well THAT’S a subject. The 1955 radio version of The Lord of the Rings is lost as noted but as the Wikipedia entry notes, the script itself survives at least. As for the 1968 radio Hobbit adaptation, indeed curious that there’s nothing from Tolkien about it… Robert Graves! Was he a snack in his youth, Sigurd-like? Hey, you be the judge. Ava Gardner! Pretty awesome, really. (And she did live in the UK for the last decades of her life so why not attend an Oxford lecture?) One of John Scalzi’s various posts talking about the idea of ‘convention famous.’ Makes total sense! Again, consider supporting our network, Megaphonic, to help us make the show, and to join us on a friendly little Discord! Thank you if you do.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss their collective choice of topic: Peter Jackson’s version of The Return of the King. It’s been twenty years since the conclusion of Jackson’s three-film effort to adapt the entire Lord of the Rings was released, and it was easily the biggest profile release of the series, coming in with massive interest and attention, setting a variety of box office records in the process along with gaining widespread critical acclaim. It all resulted in a series of worldwide film awards and honors culminating with a famed clean sweep of Oscar wins including best picture, resulting in a tie with Titanic and Ben-Hur with eleven Oscars total but also the only one of those three films to literally win every category it was nominated for, a combined record that still stands. The film’s general impact and that of the series as a whole is at this point undeniable, but how it holds up in a look back, caught somewhat between Fellowship’s own unquestionable triumph and Two Towers’s more stop-and-go successes, warrants its own discussion. What are the many changes made to the tangled relationship between Frodo, Sam and Gollum, and how does that play out as a result for both the film and the wider themes? How does the use of practical models and actual landscapes feed into the feeling of how the film both landed in the moment and held up upon later rewatching, even while it was also the biggest demonstration yet of the possibilities for CGI with massive military clashes and the like? Is it possible to actually lose count of just how many remarkable moments on a grand scale exist throughout the film, even as there are various “well, but…” caveats and questions to raise along the way? How has the whole series of film changed both the perceptions of Tolkien and the film industry in general? And how many endings are there, after all? (Surprise! It never ended, it’s running somewhere in a theater right now, maybe.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. And that’s another epic trilogy down. (The earlier entries here and here.) Hurrah for the SAG-AFTRA strike ending and better (not perfect!) terms won. Our episode on evil. Evil! TheOneRing.net report on the return of the Eagle & Child pub. Jason Horowitz’s New York Times story about that Italian Tolkien exhibition encouraged by Italy’s favorite fascists. Sorry, did we say the quiet part out loud? (In the Guardian, Jamie Mackey with more context.) Our episodes on Peter Jackson’s The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers, with lots of notes about the series as a whole so we won’t repeat everything here… The sole trailer for The Return of the King. But that’s all they needed. Trilogy Tuesday! It was a crazy time and it was great. Here’s a photo of the all-day pass given out, and here’s an example of that film frame memento given out as well. The opening scene is really something, no lie. Friendly little worm there. The screenwriting guru Ned mentions is Robert McKee – per Brian Sibley’s Peter Jackson biography, McKee had come to Wellington, New Zealand to give one of his lectures in 1988, and the New Zealand Film Commission invited Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and future contributing screenwriter for The Two Towers Stephen Sinclair to it and they all apparently took it very much to heart. So a long term impact but even so. The opening exchange between Sam, Frodo and Gollum. Really are some beautifully shot moments in this sequence. Oh did Christopher Lee have things to say in the run-up to the theatrical release. Our episode on the Rankin-Bass Return of the King. It is NOT very good. Yeah yeah the Arwen vision and Arwen dying and…well whatever. But boy that introduction to Minas Tirith. THAT’S how to make an entrance. And the beacons sequence, wow, still. Time zone issues aside. For examples of the Gondor theme earlier on in the series, skip ahead to about a minute into this clip. Ride the Empire Builder! If you like. Hurrah for John Noble (and hurrah for Fringe). Skip ahead three minutes for “The rule of Gondor is MINE!” moment, and the parting between Denethor and Faramir, phew. Minas Morgul, a triumph of John Howe design, glowing and clamped. (The skybeam is the skybeam but the sonic buildup rules.) The Holdo maneuver (it really was great, like the film itself) When Theoden and Eowyn part at Dunharrow, boy that’ll ruin ya. That’s two good actors very much in the moment. When Aragorn and Eowyn part at Dunharrow, it is very…shippy. “...and Rohan will answer!” Perfect. “The stars are veiled.” Are they, Legolas? Oh you know the Shelob scene. You know. “The Edge of Night” sequence is unnerving, beautiful and horribly sad. The Nazgul as the angels of death, in essence. However petty. Grond! It is great design for sure, plus armored trolls. Gothmog isn’t bothered with your petty trebuchets. The Ride of the Rohirrim. No notes. But here come the mumakil… “I am no man!” Yeah, it rules. Air Bud, the lingua franca of us all. That crazy Witch-king mace. Gotta love it. And indeed skip ahead to the end of the clip for that mumak takedown by the scrubbing bubbles. Plus Tracy Jordan with the wisdom. It still only counts as one, we guess. Sam finds Frodo in Cirith Ungol – it’s a good moment! “On this good earth!” (Well, maybe not GREAT earth.) “I can carry you!” A beautiful sequence, no doubt. The Crack of Doom. Great acting moments, wonderful moment for Gollum, but not over the cliff again… And yeah when Mount Doom completely explodes… Will they? Won’t they? A great way to do individual bows via a movie. “You bow to NO one.” (Cue big emotions.) A wordless toast indeed. And a pumpkin. (And a case of the not gays.) The Grey Havens sends us off. It really is a great Turner-inspired scene. “Into the West” and the end credit portraits. Great job Annie. (The young filmmaker who passed was Cameron Duncan, to correct Ned there.) The Triplets of Belleville is a real treat, see it when you can. Enjoy all the Oscar wins! Ah yes the Eragon movie. Welp. And the Chronicles of Narnia tried. But. (Good luck Greta!) This ran after the episode was recorded but the LA Times had a piece on the movie anniversary and its impact, especially in New Zealand itself. Our Rings of Power and Hobbit films episodes have more about our general qualms there. Want to hear those exclusive podcasts we’re talking about on Megaphonic? Join the Patreon! And you can check out Kitchen Party here.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: the Noldor. Also termed the Deep-elves and, in early versions of the legendarium, the Gnomes – thankfully changed given unavoidable associations – they were one of the three ethnicities of the Eldar in general, the first Children of Iluvatar. As compared to the serene Vanyar and the many generally lower-key societies of the Teleri, the Noldor were the ones most driven by the desire to create and to learn about the world in general, though these tendencies, exacerbated by Melkor in his Valinorean captivity and the internal family strife of their royal house, resulted in all the many deeds of fame in Middle-earth on the one hand but also their near total destruction and eventual fading away on the other. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, only small societies and remnants were left, casting an influence on the course of events but not directing them. What can we learn from the stories of the women of the Noldor in particular, not just Galadriel but other figures such as Fëanor’s mother Míriel and his wife Nerdanel or the Nargothrond princess Finduilas? What throughlines did Tolkien suggest in terms of how the Noldor both seemed the most human of the Elves as well as being driven by the same ambiguous creative impulses that haunted any number of beings in the legendarium? How does the decision to keep them from the center of the many arcs of The Lord of the Rings help shape the book into being the story that it is? And just how much of an obsessive creative type do you have to be to not only devise the writing system for your culture but to insist on sticking to a particular pronunciation because you’re still mad about how things ended up with your family? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. Plus a bonus Galadriel-as-Carmen Miranda sketch. (The episode provides context. Sorta.) Negotiations, negotiations. The SAG-AFTRA strike has a lot of it. The new edition of the letters will be out in mid-November. Holly Ordway’s book Tolkien’s Faith. The Bandcamp Daily story on Jim Kirkwood and his early Tolkien-inspired work. Some details on Starve Acre, the new Morfydd Clark/Mat Smith folk horror film. I mean if you WANT the Tolkien Gateway definition of the Noldor… Recommending the Andy Serkis reading of The Silmarillion once more! Our episode on Galadriel. Turgon via Tolkien Gateway; relatedly, our episode on The Fall of Gondolin. Gildor Inglorion, a truly fascinating character, as is Voronwë. Míriel and Nerdanel – and they have stories that were not fully told… Glorfindel seems like he’s about to be a major character in The Lord of the Rings…and then he’s not! We discussed the Kinslaying as part of our episode on evil. Ah yes, The Shibboleth of Fëanor. Boy this is nuts. And great at the same time. Then there’s the Oath of Fëanor. Maybe review the language first before you sign a contract. Our episodes on “Leaf by Niggle” (as part of Tree and Leaf) and Smith of Wootton Major. Finduilas – again, would be good to learn more about her! See also our episode on The Children of Húrin. And yes The Wheel of Time is really good. Really! Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon, and hang out with us in a friendly Discord!

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: The Notion Club Papers. Written in 1945 during a creative pause in completing the final third of The Lord of the Rings, The Notion Club Papers found Tolkien on familiar ground, creating a set of purported notes from regular club meetings among a group of Oxford professors much like himself and his fellow members of the famed Inklings. While not advancing beyond a couple of drafts and far from complete, the papers tell first of a professor who, due to a discussion on how spacecraft would work in science fiction, avers he has himself been able to travel in dreams through the reaches of space and meet other minds before returning to earth. One initially skeptical member over time then tells of his own unusual dream experiences, building up to a sudden moment during a massive storm where he invokes the language and imagery of the downfall of Númenor, in much the same fashion as The Lost Road did nearly a decade prior; related manuscripts found Tolkien revisiting the Númenorean story in particular, as well as speaking in detail about his invented language for the society. How does the novel’s complicated structure work creatively, if at all, and is there something there that could have been developed further in later drafts? What does it mean that Tolkien seemed most at ease exploring the possible sources of his own creativity in such a second-hand fashion, even if the means by which he did so ended up being incredibly insular? What were the contemporary sources and inspirations for this effort among his fellow Inklings and beyond, and are there any parallels he acknowledges or, perhaps notably, ignores? And who wouldn’t want to talk over the evident problems of medieval life while getting a haircut from Norman Keeps? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle. This is why it’s important to check the insulation on your windows. And indeed the WGA strike did end soon after we recorded our episode. SAG strike still ongoing for the moment! More from the Lord of the Rings musical revival, and who knows where it will go… Amazon’s plans for ads for Prime Video, great. Lovely. Couldn’t agree with that more. Yup. News about the Tales Of The Shire game and we are very curious indeed! Yeah that whole Warren Beatty Dick Tracy thing. There are indeed skeletons in Stardew Valley. (The upcoming game Ned mentioned is Wytchwood.) The Notion Club Papers! We recommend at least a little caffeine before reading. Knowing a little about the Inklings will not hurt at all when it comes to the Notion Club Papers. Socratic dialogue can indeed be rollicking. Our episode on “A Secret Vice.” Thomas Pynchon is out there and is happy not to be recognized. That Hideous Strength concludes the Space Trilogy by taking a Charles Williams direction (though as Jared notes, not very successfully). If you haven’t seen Inspector Morse just ask a relative who still watches PBS a lot. (Because they’ve likely been watching Endeavour.) Interstellar is trippy, man. (In a formal Nolany way, but still.) The Great Storm of 1987 as reported on UK TV. “The Call of Cthulhu” is probably Lovecraft’s most well known story. And boy does it have problems too! C. S. Lewis’s “The Dark Tower” is a weirdly fascinating fragment, while An Experiment With Time by J. W. Dunne was a reference point for both Lewis and Tolkien in these works. Ringu aka The Ring, which of course has nothing to do with a certain other ring. We think. Monty Python’s Constitutional Peasants, one of their most perfect moments. David Lindsay’s A Voyage to Arcturus Tolkien definitely liked. The Worm Ouroboros by E. R. Eddison, rather more mixed. (And relatedly our episode on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.) The Grink! (RIP Twitter, culturally at least, but Bluesky is starting to gel more.) Per Ned’s closing comment, Roger Zelazny’s A Night In The Lonesome October has become a seasonal classic of sorts. (And the Gahan Wilson illustrations inside are a delight.) Support By-The-Bywater through our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon and hang out with us in a friendly little Discord!