Pioneers and Pathfinders
Seyfarth Shaw LLP
Pioneers and Pathfinders is a podcast about the people driving change in the legal industry. Interviews will focus on how their unique journeys inform their thinking about the profession, the business of law, the solutions they create, and where the industry is going next. The podcast will feature guests with multiple backgrounds and perspectives drawn from a number of areas including talent, technology, diversity and inclusion, social justice, education, training, and the business of law. The host of Pioneers and Pathfinders is J. Stephen Poor, chair emeritus of Seyfarth Shaw. During his 15 year tenure as chair and managing partner, the firm pioneered the application of Lean Six Sigma in legal service delivery. Today, he co-leads Seyfarth Labs, the firm’s technology research and development team and continues to serve as an advisor to firm leadership and as executive sponsor of strategic initiatives focused on innovation and growth. Steve brings his own experience as a legal industry pioneer to these conversations, resulting in insights that are both fascinating and instructive.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Nov 29, 2023 • 34min
Damien Riehl
Damien Riehl, Vice President and Solutions Champion at vLex, discusses vLex's new product Vincent AI, crafting arguments using real cases, confidentiality concerns in AI training, the importance of common tagging methodology, and the 'All the Music' project that generated billions of melodies to protect against copyright infringement.

Nov 15, 2023 • 28min
Julie Saltman
Julie Saltman, Co-founder and CEO at Standd, talks about how AI helps lawyers save time in due diligence, the lessons she learned with the launch of the company, and the impact of generative AI on legal writing.

Nov 8, 2023 • 37min
Cindy Cohn
As technology has progressed, we have also seen emerging concerns for freedom of speech and privacy. Our guest today has spent the past 30 years defending individual liberties in the digital space. Cindy Cohn is the executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), the leading nonprofit organization ensuring that technology supports freedom, justice, and innovation for all people. She started her career as a civil litigator in private practice, where she handled various cases related to technology. Then, in 1993, the EFF offered her the opportunity to serve as outside lead attorney in the case Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice, the successful First Amendment challenge to the US export restrictions on cryptography. Today, she handles legal matters involving NSA spying, platform censorship, and surveillance technologies, among other issues. Cindy has received numerous awards and honors for her work. In 2020, she was included in The Nonprofit Times Power and Influence Top 50 list, honoring movers and shakers.
In today’s discussion, Cindy talks about the fascinating origins of the EFF, how she became involved in human rights work, how her practice has evolved over the years, and her strategies for protecting people's privacy.

Nov 1, 2023 • 29min
Tara Cheever
Today we speak with Tara Cheever, co-founder and Chief Products Officer at LIT SOFTWARE, a company that equips lawyers with the tools to modernize their practices and enhance their presentation skills in court. Tara has been a trial presentation consultant for more than 15 years. She is an expert in presentation and legal technology, and has worked on multiple high-profile matters both in the US and in Europe. At LIT SOFTWARE, she assists in the design, development, and marketing of the LIT SUITE. The LIT SUITE apps are used extensively by a broad range of legal professionals and organizations, including Am Law 100 firms, corporate counsel for Fortune 500 companies, and the US Department of Justice, as well as other government agencies. The LIT SUITE is also widely taught in law schools across the US.
In our discussion, Tara talks about her work as a trial consultant, how LIT SOFTWARE helps with storytelling in the courtroom, her thoughts on the future of litigation technology, and why she loves working with lawyers.

Oct 25, 2023 • 33min
Stephanie Wilkins
Stephanie Wilkins, editor-in-chief at Legaltech News, shares her journey from private practice to freelance writing and discusses the future of generative AI in the legal industry. They also explore the impact of technology on delivering legal services, advancements in document review, and the publication's interest in highlighting innovations and startups in the access to justice space.

Oct 18, 2023 • 32min
Amélie Vavrovsky
Today’s guest is taking on the challenges of immigration law through innovative technology. Amélie Vavrovsky is the founder and CEO of Formally, a legal tech startup that uses accessible design to simplify and streamline immigration applications. The idea for the company was partly inspired by Amélie’s own immigration experience as an international student at Brown University. She started Formally as a hackathon project, geared toward helping refugees and asylum seekers immigrate into the US. While a grad student at Stanford, Amélie further developed Formally, and the company officially launched in November of 2021. In recognition of the important work she is doing at Formally, Amélie was included in the Forbes 30 Under 30 list earlier this year.
In our conversation, Amélie discusses competing in hackathons, the importance of multidisciplinary collaboration, Formally's approach to making legal work easier, and her surprising reaction to being included in the 30 Under 30.

Oct 11, 2023 • 30min
Daniel Yi
Many legal professionals have discussed complex topics in technology and innovation in simple terms, but few have done so quite as well as today’s guest, Daniel Yi, Senior Counsel for Special Projects and Innovation at the US Department of Justice. As a disclaimer, we’d like to mention that Daniel is joining us in his personal capacity and not as a representative of the DOJ.
Before serving in his current role, Daniel started at the DOJ as a trial attorney and then as the director of the Fair Housing Testing Program. Today he leads the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division in its efforts to use the design process and entrepreneurial principles to test new solutions for sticky problems in legal practice and civil rights. Additionally, Daniel is an adjunct professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, as well as a lecturer at Harvard Law School and the University of Maryland.
Today Daniel talks about being an ultramarathoner, what has motivated him throughout his personal and professional life, and the importance of building trust in innovation efforts.

Oct 4, 2023 • 35min
Terri Mottershead
In this episode, Terri Mottershead, an innovation strategist and generative AI enthusiast, discusses the Center for Legal Innovation and its role in transforming the legal industry. She also explores the exponential growth of professionals in the legal ecosystem and the potential of generative AI to revolutionize the practice of law. Terri emphasizes the importance of staying informed and engaged in the rapidly changing tech landscape.

Sep 27, 2023 • 34min
Daniel Lewis
Today’s guest is Daniel Lewis, CEO of LegalOn Technologies, a company that uses AI to help legal teams find and fix contract risks. While a student at Stanford Law School, Daniel discovered his interest in legal tech, and soon envisioned himself going into business. Upon graduating, he founded Ravel Law, with the goal of building a better case law research experience by making use of new technology and taking a more data-driven approach. The company was ultimately acquired by LexisNexis, and Daniel served as senior director of product management and later, VP and GM of Practical Guidance & Analytical. He then went on to his current role as CEO of LegalOn’s US business. Additionally, Daniel is an investor in startups across various sectors, including education, health, legal and privacy, and enterprise.
In our discussion, Daniel talks about how he found the legal tech path, his current venture at LegalOn—and how the company is incorporating generative AI in its services, and what he values in the businesses he invests in.

Sep 20, 2023 • 53min
The AI Technology Landscape in Legal: A Strategic Approach from Selection to Implementation
Guests Jae Um, Tony Thai, and Zach Posner discuss the advancements in generative AI and strategies for successful implementation in the legal field. They also explore investing in AI technology, the adoption of AI in the legal industry, the challenges in understanding AI, the timeline for AI-powered legal briefing tools, and the role of leadership in implementing AI technology in legal departments.


