Think Inclusive

Michael McSheehan is the owner and lead technical assistance provider at Evolve and Effect, LLC. He partners with schools, districts, and state agencies nationwide to strengthen inclusive education by braiding MTSS (Multi‑Tiered System of Support) and UDL (Universal Design for Learning). His path started in speech‑language pathology with a focus on augmentative and alternative communication, and grew into systems‑change work—including years with the SWIFT Education Center across five states, 16 districts, and 64 schools.In this conversation, Michael McSheehan unpacks how MTSS and UDL fit together to make inclusive education work in everyday classrooms. He explains that UDL is the design foundation—assuming variability, elevating student voice, and removing barriers—while MTSS adds the structures and rapid response needed to prevent struggle and respond quickly when students need more. Together, they form a proactive, responsive system where all students start with “first, best instruction” and belong to a community of learners. Michael reflects on lessons from SWIFT systems‑change work (state–district–school alignment matters), names the biggest barriers (adult mindsets, insufficient collaboration time, leadership turnover), and argues we need stronger civil‑rights‑level accountability—akin to Brown v. Board—to move beyond incrementalism. He also tackles the hard question, “Is inclusion done badly better than segregation?” and explains why the answer is no, sharing a student story (“Andy”) that shows how harm from unsupported inclusion can necessitate a temporary separate placement—with a thoughtful path back. Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/michael-mcsheehan-how-mtss-and-udl-fit-into-inclusive-education/

Janice Fialka — Author, social worker, and longtime activist; mom of two adult children, including Micah, who lives interdependently in Syracuse and was featured in the film Intelligent Lives. (Emma—her daughter—is a school principal in Boston.)Sara Jo Soldovieri — Doctoral student at Syracuse University studying inclusive special education; inclusive special educator by training; previously created and ran the inclusive education program at the National Down Syndrome Society; appears in the documentary Forget Me Not about inclusive education in New York City.Host Tim Villegas sits down with Janice Fialka and Sara Jo Soldovieri to talk about how to respond when families believe segregated special education classrooms are “best.” The conversation centers on listening first, naming fears, presuming competence, and taking practical steps—because inclusion is a process where all students learn together with the right supports.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/janice-fialka-sara-jo-soldovieri-what-to-say-when-families-think-segregated-special-education-classrooms-are-best/

Emily Ladau — Disability rights activist, writer, and speaker; editor‑in‑chief of the Rooted in Rights blog; co‑host of The Accessible Stall podcast; and author of Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to Be an Ally.Emily Ladau joins Tim Villegas to unpack what meaningful allyship to disabled people looks like in everyday life, why language matters, and how multiple disability models shape attitudes and systems. They dig into inclusive schooling and work, the limits of “inspiration” narratives, and the principle of “nothing about us without us.”Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/emily-ladau-how-to-be-an-ally-to-disabled-people/

Genia Stephen — founder and host of the Good Things In Life podcast. She supports families to help kids with intellectual disabilities build inclusive lives at home, school, and in the community. She’s also a midwife with 10+ years’ experience working with families, including those welcoming a child with a disability.Tim talks with Genia Stephen about why podcasting is her go‑to way to bring disability thought leaders to families, what inclusion looks like across Canada and the U.S., and why “perfect inclusion” is aspirational—but inclusion still beats segregation every time. They discuss real‑life examples—from Genia’s sister and friend Becky to her son’s schooling—that show how community, relationships, and access to the regular curriculum create better outcomes.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/genia-stephen-good-things-in-life-podcast/

Eric Garcia is a journalist and the author of We’re Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation. He has worked at The Washington Post, The Hill, Roll Call, National Journal, and MarketWatch; his writing has appeared in The New Republic, The Daily Beast, The American Prospect, and Salon. He currently serves as Senior D.C. Correspondent for The Independent and is active on X/Twitter at @EricMGarcia. In this episode, Tim Villegas talks with Eric Garcia about reframing how society talks about autism—centering autistic voices, prioritizing real supports, and moving away from labels that flatten people’s experiences. Garcia challenges “inspiration” narratives, argues for fully funding and properly delivering IDEA services, and explains why integrated employment and community‑based supports matter for dignity and opportunity. He discusses health care that listens to autistic people, the overlapping struggles of autistic and LGBTQ+ communities, and why terms like “high‑” and “low‑functioning” should give way to talking about support needs. The conversation closes with a hopeful vision: autistic people included in every decision that affects them—across policy, workplaces, and public life. Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/eric-garcia-were-not-broken-changing-the-autism-conversation/

Marilyn Friend — Renowned expert on co‑teaching and inclusive practices; author of practitioner books including Co‑Teach and Specially Designed Instruction for Co‑Teaching. She emphasizes co‑teaching as a service delivery option that embeds specially designed instruction in general education classrooms. Learn more at coteach.com or reach her at marilynfriend@marilynfriend.com. Host Tim Villegas talks with Marilyn Friend about what co‑teaching really is (and isn’t), why it isn’t mandated in federal or state law, and how it strengthens inclusive education by ensuring physical, social, and instructional integration for students with disabilities. The conversation covers the six co‑teaching approaches, which ones to prioritize, and practical guardrails like role reciprocity and keeping specially designed instruction truly “special.”

Sarah Wishart is the Creative Director at EachOther, a UK human-rights journalism charity, where she leads both the editorial and film teams. With a background in theatre/performance and communications in the education/media space, she focuses on storytelling that centers lived experience. In 2020 she launched Excluded, a youth-led feature documentary about school exclusion in the UK that elevates the voices of young people—many credited as co‑creators and consultants.Host Tim Villegas talks with Sarah Wishart about Excluded, a young-people–led documentary exploring how exclusion works in UK schools and why inclusion and compassion matter. They cover the viral “ad hack” that mapped a school‑exclusion‑to‑prison pipeline on the London Underground, the realities of temporary and permanent exclusion (including PRUs), and how co‑creating—and paying—young contributors changed the film and the organization behind it.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/sarah-wishart-excluded-a-young-people-led-film-on-school-exclusions/

Wyatt Oroke (often “Mr. O”) is a nationally recognized Baltimore educator known for his work in social justice and literacy. He teaches 7th–8th grade English and Honors English at City Springs Elementary/Middle School in Baltimore City. Honors include 2020 Baltimore City Teacher of the Year and 2021 Maryland Teacher of the Year, with additional recognition from Johns Hopkins, the University of Baltimore School of Law, the Maryland State Senate, the Baltimore Orioles, and a “Superhero Award” from Ellen DeGeneres, where he appeared twice. Instagram: @wyattoroke; he’s on Twitter but rarely posts; DMs are the best way to request his email.In this conversation, Wyatt Oroke makes the case that high expectations are an equity issue: every student (“scholar,” in his classroom) deserves access to grade‑level content with the right supports. He shares how an honors‑level curriculum and a student‑led (90/10) classroom helped his scholars rise academically, engage with real‑world issues like restorative practices, and advocate directly to city leaders. Grounded in his own story as a once‑struggling reader, Oroke challenges deficit language (e.g., “learning loss”), pushes for curriculum that centers students’ identities and voices, and calls for schools to become true community hubs. He doesn’t mince words about systemic inequities—his stance is to “blow it up and start again”—while offering practical steps educators can take right now: listen first, design for access to grade‑level work, and give students the mic.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/wyatt-oroke-having-high-expectations-for-all-students/

Melissa McCullough is the Director of Early Childhood for the East Moline school district in Illinois, a pre‑K–8 district of about 2,700 students with roughly 200 children in its early childhood program. She started her career as a school social worker in an inclusion‑first district, brings that mindset to her current role, and is also a parent of three boys who are hard of hearing—experience that fuels her advocacy for inclusive preschool. Tim Villegas talks with Melissa McCullough about what fully inclusive preschool looks like—and how her district moved away from “all‑or‑nothing” special education toward blended classrooms where related services are pushed in, teachers are dually certified, and supports are built around least restrictive environment from day one. A key milestone: the program began the 2021–22 school year with zero students in self‑contained placements. The conversation covers mindset shifts, partnering with families, strategic professional development, and using data and funding drivers (like Indicator 6 in Illinois) to sustain change.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/melissa-mccullough-what-inclusive-preschool-services-look-like/

Eddie Fergus is an associate professor of urban education and policy at Temple University. A former high school teacher, program evaluator, and community school program director, his research focuses on the intersection of education policy and outcomes, with specific attention to Black and Latino boys, disproportionality in special education, suspensions, school climate, and access to advanced courses.In this conversation, Eddie Fergus breaks down what “disproportionality” means in schools—when a student group is over‑ or under‑represented in programs like special education relative to their share of enrollment—and why it persists. He explains how practitioner mindsets (“shopping carts” of lived experience) and systemic design choices (e.g., wait‑to‑fail models) interact to produce inequitable outcomes. The discussion touches on Response to Intervention (RTI) and multi‑tiered supports, restorative practices as repair rather than punishment, and why the biggest barrier to inclusion may be the belief that only certain adults can teach students with disabilities.Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/eddie-fergus-disproportionality-in-special-education/