

OnBase: Smashing Sales and Marketing Misalignments
Demandbase
Sunny Side Up is now 'OnBase', the no-fluff, all-impact B2B podcast bridging the divide between sales and marketing. Hear from the sharpest minds in B2B as they share revenue-boosting tactics and lessons straight from the frontlines and help you solve your toughest challenges.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 30, 2024 • 29min
Ep. 499 | Achieving Cross-Functional Alignment for Revenue Growth
Episode Summary
In this episode of OnBase, Kyle Lacy discusses strategies for achieving cross-functional alignment between sales, marketing, and other teams. He identifies the main B2B marketing challenge as aligning these groups around common metrics and goals, emphasizing the need for documented processes and a shared revenue model. Kyle stresses the importance of marketing demonstrating its contribution to sales outcomes, not just brand-building. He also shares insights on leveraging AI tools while cautioning against replacing human sales roles. Overall, Kyle provides practical advice for B2B marketers seeking to improve cross-functional alignment and drive business growth.
About the guest
Kyle has spent the last 17 years building, scaling, failing, and winning in high-growth software. He’s currently serving the Jellyfish team as their CMO, and before joining the Jellyfish “bloom,” he had the pleasure of building a company called Lessonly. He has also been fortunate to lead teams at Seismic, OpenView, Salesforce, and ExactTarget. But most importantly, he is the father to two wonderful boys, an energetic dog, and one too many books on World War II.
Connect with Kyle Lacy
Key takeaways
- Cross-functional alignment: Success in sales and marketing hinges on aligning around shared performance metrics e.g., pipeline, revenue) and fostering collaboration across teams.
- Focus on key numbers: Misalignment often occurs when sales and marketing teams aren’t tracking the same metrics. Agreement on crucial numbers is vital for achieving alignment.
- Sales and marketing collaboration: Understanding the sales model, including pipeline coverage and quota attainment, is critical for marketers to contribute effectively to revenue.
- Importance of brand: While brand building is essential, it must always tie back to measurable business results like pipeline and bookings.
- AI in marketing: AI is useful as an assistant for research, content creation, and data analysis, but it’s not yet capable of fully replacing human tasks, especially in prospecting.
- Engaging content: Effective case studies and white papers should focus on clear ROI data rather than just promotional content, making them more engaging and useful for prospects.
- Documentation and process: Having a well-documented process and alignment on definitions like MQLs) helps prevent confusion and misalignment between teams.
- Marketing’s goal: The ultimate purpose of marketing is to help sales close deals, and success is determined by contributions to pipeline and quota.
Quotes
"Nobody cares about your brand campaign if your sales team hits 40% quota attainment."
"If you're not aligned with the sales leader and not looking at the same numbers, eventually it's going to break."
Recommended Resource
Books
"Elon Musk" by Walter Isaacson: Kyle recommends this biography for its insights into the mindset of innovators with extreme urgency and ambition.
Newsletters
Ultra Successful by Dr. Julie Gurner: A paid newsletter Kyle highly recommends. He praises Dr. Gurner for her brilliant insights, noting that it’s one of the few newsletters he subscribes to.
Connect with Kyle Lacy | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Oct 8, 2024 • 20min
Ep. 498 | How Sales and Marketing Misalignment Undermines Data and AI Transformation
Episode Summary
In this episode of OnBase, host Chris Moody interviews Aristomenis Capogeannis on the critical role of aligning sales and marketing for successful data and AI transformations. Ari explains that misalignment can increase costs and damage competitive advantage. He emphasizes the importance of a unified "single source of truth" to enhance collaboration and avoid redundant efforts. Ari suggests that innovation often requires a fresh look at existing technologies, not just new tools, and recommends books like Crossing the Chasm and The Four Agreements for personal and professional development.
About the guest
Aristomenis Capogeannis is the Senior Director of Enterprise Revenue Marketing at Nvidia. With over 20 years of experience, Ari is an expert marketing technologist focused on demand creation and marketing led growth via data-driven strategies. He has successfully led marketing transformations from an operations and organizational standpoint, delivering growth and subsequent marketing attribution to pipeline driving acquisition and funding milestones in the Financial SaaS, Robotic Process Automation, and Networking industries.
Connect with Aristomenis Capogeannis
Key takeaways
- Misalignment between sales and marketing can hinder data and AI transformation, increasing costs and harming competitive advantage.
- A unified “single source of truth” is essential for effective collaboration and reducing redundant efforts.
- Successful data-driven strategies require actionable insights that resonate across all levels, especially at the executive level.
- Innovation often involves leveraging existing technologies more effectively rather than constantly seeking new tools.
- Bringing fresh perspectives and talent can provide novel insights and boost organizational growth.
Quotes
“Misalignment between sales and marketing can turn your brand into the spammy brand nobody wants to talk to.”
“Innovation doesn’t always mean buying new technology. It often requires stepping back and rethinking how to better use what you already have.”
Recommended Resource
Books:
- Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey A. Moore
- The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz
Connect with Aristomenis Capogeannis | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Sep 12, 2024 • 24min
Ep. 497 | Tech to Tactics: A CMO's Guide to B2B Marketing Balance
Episode Summary
In this episode, Jayashree Rajan shares her unique journey from electrical engineering to becoming a seasoned marketing leader, emphasizing the importance of aligning marketing and sales strategies through trust, empathy, and shared goals. She discusses best practices for balancing inbound and outbound approaches, determining the right marketing mix based on organizational maturity, and prioritizing accounts and leads in an account-based strategy. Jayashree also highlights common challenges in marketing automation, such as data silos, and the need for vendor support and empathy. Throughout the conversation, she shares insights and recommendations that underscore the value of empathy, continuous improvement, and a customer-centric mindset in driving marketing and sales success.
About the guest
Jayashree Rajan is a seasoned marketing and product management professional with over 20 years of experience in both B2B and B2C sectors. With a background in programming languages and enterprise software development, she has a unique ability to build marketing infrastructures from the ground up and optimize IT marketing frameworks. Jayashree's management philosophy is rooted in collaboration, leading by example, and fostering team growth. She is passionate about mentoring women and draws on her journey to encourage others to break barriers. Her focus remains on leveraging technology to drive marketing excellence and customer engagement.
Connect with Jayashree Rajan
Key takeaways- To align marketing and sales build relationships based on empathy and trust, have joint ownership of goals, and work backward from revenue targets.
- When balancing inbound and outbound marketing, Jayashree recommends starting small with outbound, training the sales team, and gradually expanding the approach based on success and organizational maturity.
- To determine the right mix of inbound and outbound look at past performance, ROI of tactics, and the team's skills and comfort level, then continuously adjust the approach.
- For account-based marketing, Jayashree stresses the importance of marketing keeping in touch with target accounts, building their interest, and prioritizing MQLs based on demonstrated intent and engagement.
- Key challenges in marketing automation include data silos from too many tools, which can be addressed by simplifying the tech stack and consolidating data to reduce friction for sales.
Quotes"Leads don't mean much. It's the opportunities. At the end of the day, we all win when you have the right opportunities."
-Jayashree Rajan
Recommended Resource
Books:
- The Advantage by Patrick M. LencioniConnect with Jayashree Rajan | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Aug 29, 2024 • 22min
Ep. 496 | The T-Shaped Marketer's Playbook
Episode SummaryIn this episode, Julie Liu, the Senior Vice President of Strategic Initiatives and Marketing at AvePoint, shares her unique journey into the world of B2B marketing. Despite not having a traditional marketing background, Julie has built a successful career by embracing a "T-shaped" approach - being a strong generalist with deep expertise in specific areas. She discusses AvePoint's consistent go-to-market strategy, which is centered around a buyer journey framework spanning five stages from "horizon scanners" to "clients." Julie emphasizes the importance of aligning the entire organization around this framework and associating each stage with specific metrics. She also highlights the value of investing in the next generation of marketers, focusing on cultivating curious, risk-taking individuals who can bring diverse perspectives. Looking ahead, Julie predicts a shift towards targeting end-users rather than just economic buyers, underscoring the need for adaptable, data-driven marketing strategies.
About the guest
Julie Liu is the Senior Vice President of Global Marketing at AvePoint, a SaaS and data management platform that manages and protects data to secure collaboration in the Microsoft Cloud, SharePoint, Salesforce, and Google. Julie is an industry-recognized marketing leader, most recently mentoring others to create scalable marketing strategies, launching a sustainable global partner program, and establishing AvePoint as a publicly traded company.
Connect with Julie Liu
Key takeaways- Embrace a "T-shaped" approach to marketing - be a strong generalist with deep expertise in specific areas. This versatility is crucial as the marketing landscape continues to evolve.
- Implement a consistent, organization-wide buyer journey framework to align sales, marketing, and customer success. AvePoint's 5-stage model (horizon scanners, explorers, hunters, active buyers, clients) helps drive targeted strategies and metrics.
- Empower and invest in the next generation of marketers. Look for self-starters, problem-solvers, and risk-takers who bring diverse perspectives, not just those who think like you.
- Anticipate a shift towards targeting end-users, not just economic buyers, as AI and technology increasingly influence the buyer's journey. Adapt marketing strategies to focus on overall account growth, not just individual leads.
- Establish "strategic plays" where all resources are concentrated to achieve significant, measurable outcomes, rather than spreading efforts too thin across multiple initiatives.
- Leverage inspiring figures like Paid Playa, Scott Brinker, and Brene Brown to inform your marketing approach, from martech to interpersonal relationships.
Quotes"I will never stop learning, because the market changes, right? So the second that I get comfortable is the second I become useless." -Julie Liu
Recommended Resource
Books:
- Transforming the B2B Buyer Journey
- Hacking Marketing
- Brene Brown’s books
Connect with Julie Liu | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Aug 22, 2024 • 28min
Ep. 495 | The Art of ABM Optimization
Episode SummaryIn this episode, Avishai Sharon, Co-founder and CEO of Trend Demon, discusses the evolving landscape of B2B marketing and the rise of account-based strategies as a solution to the challenges posed by traditional demand generation tactics. He shares data-driven insights on the changing buyer journey, highlighting decreases in buying group size and website engagement, but increases in conversion rates and marketing investment. Avishai emphasizes the critical role of storytelling and audience captivation in supporting the buyer's process, rather than solely focusing on lead capture. He provides recommendations for better alignment between marketing and sales teams around target accounts and the use of listening technologies and AI to optimize account-based efforts. Avishai predicts that ABM's future evolution will center on understanding anonymous buying groups and orchestrating seamless journeys across multiple channels.
About the guest
Avishai Sharon, Co-founder and CEO of Trendemon, is a passionate entrepreneur with 20 years of experience in the marketing and sales technology landscapes and their transformative potential. Prior to leading Trendemon, a company revolutionizing the way B2B marketers can effortlessly optimize website experiences and orchestrate buyer journeys, Avishai founded GISight, a leading software development agency serving Fortune 500 customers. He developed his leadership skills during his tenure as an officer in the Israeli Air Force, serving in various key technological roles.
Connect with Avishai Sharon
Key takeaways- Traditional demand generation tactics are becoming increasingly ineffective, leading to the rise of account-based marketing (ABM) as a solution.
- Buyer behavior has shifted, with buyers remaining more anonymous and having greater control over their journey. This has resulted in low conversion rates from MQLs to pipeline.
- Data analysis by Trend Demon reveals decreases in buying group size and website engagement but increases in conversion rates and marketing investment, indicating a potential shift from the bear economy.
- Storytelling and consistently captivating audiences are critical for demand generation, moving beyond just lead capture. This requires educating leadership on the new marketing landscape.
- Sales teams need to focus on listening and providing value to support the buyer journey, with the gap between good and poor sales performance widening.
- Alignment between marketing and sales around target accounts is essential, with a shared understanding of the buying group and the inputs required to qualify and vet accounts.
- Leveraging listening technologies and AI can help uncover insights, personalize content, and orchestrate buying group journeys across multiple channels, which is a key focus for the future evolution of ABM.
Quotes"If we are doing our job correctly, we are saving our buyers time. And I think this should be probably the main benefit, or the main advantage, or the objective of any go to market organization." -Avishai Sharon
Recommended Resource
Podcasts:
- NexGen CMO with Kelly Hopping
- Nick Bennett’s People-First GTM Model on Marketing Powerups podcast
Connect with Avishai Sharon | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Aug 8, 2024 • 16min
Ep. 494 | Aligning Through Cross-Functional Collaboration and Consensus Building
Episode SummaryIn this episode, Christopher Mael discusses how he has made alignment meetings the most enjoyable part of the month. Christopher explains how he created a unified, goal-oriented environment by bringing diverse perspectives together and facilitating honest conversations to address gaps and align perceptions. He emphasizes the importance of understanding leadership's priorities and building consensus, even when different metrics and priorities exist across functions.
About the guest
Christopher Mael has been the Director of Sales and Operations Planning for Precor subsidiary Peloton and the fitness space for the last five years. Previously he worked for Loud Technologies, a global leader in performance professional audio equipment for over 12 years.
Connect with Christopher Mael
Key takeaways- Make alignment meetings the most enjoyable part of the month by facilitating difficult conversations and bringing diverse perspectives together
- Build consensus and align perceptions by creating space for honest conversations and understanding leadership's priorities
- Address misconceptions about alignment, as it is not a given and can prevent teams from being on the same page
Quotes"The biggest misconception about alignment is that it exists most of the time. You get into a meeting and people think they're all on the same page, and they might even be grumpy, like, why are we even having this meeting?" -Christopher Mael
Recommended Resource
Books- "Fundamentals of Demand Planning and Forecasting" by Chamal Jain
- "Demand Management Best Practices" by George Palmatier and Colin Crum
Journals- Journal of Business Forecasting by Institute of Business Planning and ForecastingConnect with Christopher Mael | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Jul 30, 2024 • 37min
Ep. 493 | The Art and Science of Brand Reinvention
Episode SummaryIn this episode Bill Kenney shares his journey from an art school student to a business owner, and how he co-founded Focus Lab with a business partner. The discussion covers common reasons why companies need to rebrand, such as company maturity, M&A activity, and addressing trademark issues. Bill offers tips for successful branding projects, including setting expectations, keeping the core team small, and trusting the process even when faced with criticism. He emphasizes maintaining a company's core values and culture while adapting to changing market needs. The episode also explores potential pitfalls in B2B branding, such as over-relying on competitors and seeking too many subjective opinions.
About the guest
Bill Kenney is the Co-founder, Partner, and CEO of Focus Lab and Odi, two global B2B branding agencies. Past clients include Marketo, Salesloft, Zuora, Braze, Outreach, LaunchDarkly, Twilio, Adobe, ASAPP, Luminate, Netflix, Shopify, and many others. Bill is also the author of the Amazon best-seller "Conquer Your Rebrand." When he's not working you can find Bill in one of three places: his couch, the local Jiu-Jitsu gym, or his camper in Vermont.
Connect with Bill Kenney
Key takeaways- Common reasons for rebranding include company maturity, M&A activity, trademark issues, and the need to differentiate from competitors.
- Tips for successful branding projects include setting expectations, keeping the core team small, and trusting the process even when faced with criticism.
- Maintaining a company's core values and culture is crucial when rebranding, as it helps bring the brand's heart and soul forward.
- Potential pitfalls in B2B branding include over-relying on competitors, seeking too many subjective opinions, and over-emphasizing measuring ROI.
- AI can be a useful tool in enhancing visual storytelling, but it cannot replace the human interaction and strategic decision-making required for successful branding.
Quotes"The brand is going to be so much larger and different in received through different meanings than what it is when you're creating it." -Bill Kenney
Recommended Resource
Books:
- “Daring Greatly” by Brene Brown
- “Can't Hurt Me” by David Goggins
- “Traction” by Gino Wickman
- “The Infinite Game” by Simon Sinek
Podcasts:- A Bit of Optimism hosted by Simon Sinek
Connect with Bill Kenney | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Jul 24, 2024 • 20min
Ep. 492 | Why MQL is a Terrible Metric?
Peter Bregman challenges the use of MQL metric, suggests focusing on MQAs. Emphasizes aligning marketing, sales, service, and product teams around a shared go-to-market strategy. Discusses using AI in marketing to empower sales teams and recommends books, podcasts, and industry experts.

Jul 18, 2024 • 23min
Ep. 491 | Balancing AI and Human Judgement in Decision Making
Episode SummaryIn this episode, Mana guides on implementing ethical and unbiased practices when using AI in marketing. She emphasizes the importance of ensuring data diversity, regular model audits, and transparency around how AI makes decisions to avoid bias. Mana suggests marketers ask fundamental questions about AI models, such as how they avoid overfitting, to validate outputs and understand the reasoning behind recommendations, especially for high-stakes decisions. Overall, the discussion highlights the potential for AI to create new opportunities in marketing by enabling more data-driven, scientific practices, and recommends that marketers learn about machine learning concepts to become more proficient in this area.
About the guest
Mana Ionescu is a digital marketing leader and Head of Digital Marketing at Axos Bank in San Diego. A former agency founder, Mana loves to demystify complex marketing concepts and debunk digital marketing myths. She teaches at the Kellogg Professional Certificate in Digital Marketing and is a sought-after keynote. In her free time, Mana likes to explore the peaks and valleys of our beautiful earth: hiking and SCUBA diving.
Connect with Mana Ionescu
Key takeaways- Implement ethical and unbiased AI practices through diverse data, regular audits, and transparency
- Ask fundamental questions about AI models, like how they avoid overfitting, to validate outputs
- Maintain visibility into the "why" behind AI recommendations, especially for high-stakes decisions
- Embrace AI's potential to create new opportunities in marketing by enabling more data-driven, scientific practices
- Recommend that marketers learn about machine learning concepts to become more proficient
Quotes"We can't have a black box. You need to be able to explain to stakeholders how the AI models work and the risks involved." -Mana Ionescu
Connect with Mana Ionescu | Follow us on LinkedIn | Website

Jul 12, 2024 • 19min
Ep. 490 | Navigating GTM with Data & Instincts
Explore the delicate balance between data-driven insights and intuition in marketing. Learn how to focus on customer needs, use targeted campaigns, and ask better questions for growth. Discover tips on enhancing collaboration between sales and marketing teams and generating quality leads for revenue growth. Dive into strategies for navigating multiple leads within the same account in an account-based marketing environment. Get book recommendations and insights from inspirational figures in B2B marketing.


