

Public Defenseless
Hunter Parnell
Anyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
Like so many of you, Hunter is not an attorney, simply tired of a news cycle and talking heads that offer no real solutions to the ever-growing list of problems we face. Hunter hopes that with this information, you will share his belief that ordinary people still can make a difference.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
Like so many of you, Hunter is not an attorney, simply tired of a news cycle and talking heads that offer no real solutions to the ever-growing list of problems we face. Hunter hopes that with this information, you will share his belief that ordinary people still can make a difference.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 6, 2023 • 60min
134: The Colorado Bond Law Enriching the Bail Bond Industry w/Katie Yens
It's no secret that the Public Defenseless Podcast firmly stands in the "abolish cash bail" camp. On today's episode, Hunter is joined by criminal defense attorney, Katie Yens, to demonstrate yet another reason why the practice must cease to exist. Despite, perhaps, good intentions of judges and prosecutors, the bond laws in Colorado allow for the bail bond industry to enrich themselves off the backs of those that can least afford it. Today's conversation is all about this obscure, but deeply influential practice of bond forfeiture and revocation. Guests: Katie Yens, Criminal Defense Attorney, LFM Defense Resources: Email Katie Katie@lfmdefense.com Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jul 4, 2023 • 1h 8min
133: The Tech Solutions that can Propel Public Defense into the Future w/Rocky Ramirez
A little over a year ago, Hunter spoke with Rocky Ramirez about how a simple bit of no-code programming was able to cut down appointment times from nearly a week to less than half a day. Today, Hunter invited Rocky back on the show to discuss the steps he's taken over the past year in Bexar County to find tech solutions for the many issues with Public Defense. While the Managed Assigned Counsel system he operates in is unique, the theme of this episode applies equally to all practitioners of public defense: it is imperative that Public Defenders analyse what policies, procedures, and practices could be made more efficient with simple tech solutions! Guests: Rocky Ramirez, Law and Technology Resource Attorney, Bexar County, Texas Resources: Email Rocky: rocky.ramirez@bexar.org Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 29, 2023 • 1h 2min
132: Autonomy to Decide: Managing an Effective Defense with a Challenging Client w/Randy Fiedler and Stacy Newman
Today, Hunter spoke with Randy Fiedler and Stacy Newman about the best ways to handle a challenging client. Whether it is due to mental illness, mistrust, or some other external factor, every public defender has at one point in time dealt with a client they would consider challenging. The question is then, what are the skills and best practices to foster the trusting relationship that is necessary to combat the challenges any client may present. Guests: Randy Fiedler, Public Defender, Nevada Stacy Newman, Public Defender, Nevada Resources: McCoy v Louisiana https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-8255_i4ek.pdf Autonomy Isn't Everything https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2770&context=facpub ABA standards on Mental Health https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/criminal_justice_standards/mental_health_standards_2016.authcheckdam.pdf Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 27, 2023 • 1h 36min
131: How to Solve the Public Defender Shortage in Rural America w/Patrick Crowley, Michael Naughton and Jonathan Sacks
Today, Hunter spoke with Patrick Crowley, Michael Naughton and Jonathan Sacks to talk through the attorney shortage crisis in rural America and what we can do to reverse the trend. While today's episode focuses a lot on what is happening in rural Michigan, make no mistake, this is a problem facing nearly every state in the country. As rural, small town America has declined over the past decades, it has become harder and harder to entice young public defenders, laden with outrageous student debt, to want to practice in the rural parts of a state. So what can be done? With this conversation, Hunter hopes to spark new conversations and solutions to a problem that is seemingly only getting worse as the years go by. Guests: Patrick Crowley, Chief Public Defender, Marquette County, Michigan Michael Naughton, Attorney and Partner, North Coast Legal, PLC. Jonathan Sacks, Director, Michigan State Appellate Defender Office Resources: Michael's Report on the Issue https://michiganidc.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/M.-Naughton-Report-Attorney-Shortages.pdf SADO.org https://sado.org/ MIDC https://michiganidc.gov/ Marquette County Public Defender https://mqtpubdef.org/ Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 22, 2023 • 1h 2min
130: Poverty, Prison, and a Path to Redemption w/Champ Napier
Today, Hunter spoke with Chris "Champ" Napier. When Champ was only four years old when he witnessed his father's murder. By the time he was thirteen, Napier had lived in seven different homes in seven different ghettos. Biologically and socially, he was raised in a pool of piranhas, barbarians, and sharks. At eighteen, Napier was convicted of killing a man and was sent to prison. This memoir narrates Napier's story as he navigates a childhood of poverty in Prichard, Alabama; serves more than a decade and a half in prison; and transforms his life by becoming Muslim and devoting his life to Allah. We were so broke I had to eat dry saltine crackers or ketchup sandwiches with the end parts of the bread and drink sugar water, when we didn't have kool-aid. These times were hard for us. I can recall a lot of times on the weekend that someone from the club or from somewhere would burglarize our house and we would have to play like we were asleep until they left. The only thing they could not steal was a small black and white TV and portable radio. Guests: Champ Napier, Client Advocate, Mobile, Alabama Resources: Champ Napier Story https://alabamafairjustice.org/stories-chris-champ-napier Champ Napier Book https://www.amazon.com/Poverty-Prison-Frustrations-My-Past/dp/1542983398 Champ's Website https://chrischampnapier.com/ Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 20, 2023 • 1h 7min
129: It's Time to Value Paralegals and Social Workers as much as Attorneys w/ Latosha Watts and Taneal Behrens
Today, Hunter spoke with Latosha Watts and Taneal Behrens to highlight the important role that paralegals and social workers play in a Public Defender Office. To date, we have touched a lot on the need for Public Defender Offices to incorporate more social workers, but we have not had the opportunity to talk about the important role paralegals provide an office. With more than 2 decades of experience between them in the role of paralegal, Latosha and Taneal provided excellent insight on the pathway for public defense to value paralegals and social workers just as much as they value attorneys. Guests: Latosha Watts, Paralegal, Chesapeake Public Defender Office, Virginia Taneal Behrens, Sentencing Specialist, Charleston Public Defender Office, South Carolina Resources: Email Latosha lwatts@vadefenders.org Email Taneal tbehrens@charlestoncounty.org Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 15, 2023 • 1h 16min
128: Fostering the Public Voice of the Public Defender w/Kay Levine and Russell Gold
Today, Hunter spoke with two law professors, Kay Levine and Russell Gold, to discuss their law review article calling for an increase in the public advocacy of public defenders. As a natural extension of the main goals of the show, Hunter loved exploring the potential political power public defenders could wield if they were more vocal. Interestingly as well, both Kay and Russell offered important juxtapositions between public defenders, prosecutors, and corporate attorneys and the way each engages with public advocacy out of the court room. Guests: Kay Levine, Professor of Law, Emory Law School Russell Gold, Professor of Law, Alabama University School of Law Resources: Public Voice of the Defender Law Review Article https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4416723 Kay's Article on the FL Prosecutors https://news.bloomberglaw.com/white-collar-and-criminal-law/discriminatory-policy-pinned-on-wall-should-shock-all-prosecutors Kay's Professor Page https://law.emory.edu/faculty/faculty-profiles/levine-profile.html Russell Gold Professor Page https://www.law.ua.edu/directory/People/view/Russell_Gold Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 13, 2023 • 1h 13min
127: Secrets of the Killing State: How the Truth of Lethal Injection Could End the Death Penalty w/Corinna Lain
Today, Hunter spoke with Law Professor Corinna Lain to discuss her career of research around the death penalty and lethal injection. While it may seem strange to hyper focus on lethal injection, there is something to be said about understanding how and why lethal injection became the defacto method for state sanctioned murder. When lethal injection was offered to the American people, it was designed to do one simple thing: hide the reality of state sponsored murder. So long as people could look away from the violence of the state, they could place execution out of mind. In doing so, the practice could continue in relative secrecy. Today's episode is about lifting the shroud on that secrecy to examine the way the lethal injection is just as, if not more, violent, cruel, and unusual and any other form of execution. Guests: Corrina Lain, SD Roberts and Sandra Moore Professor of Law, Richmond School of Law Resources: Can Europe end the Death Penalty? https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/can-europe-end-the-death-penalty-in-america/283790/ US Botched Executions https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions Execution of Clayton Lockett https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/13/botched-oklahoma-execution-clayton-lockett-bloody-mess Corinna Lain Faculty Page https://law.richmond.edu/faculty/clain/ Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 8, 2023 • 1h 22min
126: From Portland to Klamath Falls, Public Defense in Oregon is on Life Support w/Lee Wachocki and Eve Costello
Last year, Hunter spoke with Oregon Public Defender Chris O'Connor to discuss the public defender crisis in Oregon, and today, Hunter once again returns to Oregon to see what has changed. Joining Hunter to discuss the issue is Eve Costello, a contract PD in Klamath Falls, and Lee Wachocki, a PD in Multnomah County. Each of these attorneys bring with them an insight into the many ways that Public Defense is failing in Oregon from the urban center of Portland to the rural areas of Klamath Falls. While there are no easy solutions to the issues, it may be time for the state to seriously consider moving to a structure that enables the defense bar to act in a unified manner. Guests: Lee Wachocki, Public Defender, Multnomah County Eve Costello, Contract Public Defender, Klamath Falls Resources: Multnomah County Public Defender https://mpdlaw.com/ Sixth Amendment Center Report https://sixthamendment.org/know-your-state/oregon/ Vice Investigative Reporting on Public Defender Crisis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ENDjlvgLs 'No sense of justice': Hundreds cycling through Oregon courts without public defenders http://%20https/www.oregonlive.com/crime/2022/09/no-sense-of-justice-1300-criminal-cases-in-limbo-as-oregons-public-defender-shortage-mounts.html Firing of Stephen Singer https://oregoncapitalchronicle.com/2022/08/18/board-fires-head-of-oregons-public-defense-agency/ Oregon Public Defense Law Suit https://www.opb.org/article/2022/05/16/lawsuit-oregon-failing-to-provide-attorneys-to-people-charged-with-crimes/ ABA Report on Oregon Public Defense https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2022/01/aba-sclaid-finds-lack-of-resources-in-its-study-of-oregon-s-publ/ Oregon public defender asks court to withdraw overworked attorneys, dismiss cases https://www.opb.org/article/2023/03/16/public-defense-oregon-attorneys-dismiss-cases/ Oregon's public defender crisis impacts Jackson County https://www.opb.org/article/2023/05/01/oregons-public-defender-crisis-impacts-jackson-county/ Attorney Shortage in Rural America https://www.nhbr.com/lack-of-rural-lawyers-leaves-much-of-america-without-support/ Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN

Jun 6, 2023 • 1h 6min
125: You Might Go to Prison Even Though You're Innocent w/Justin Brooks
On previous episodes, Hunter spoke with Chris Fabricant and Daniel Medwed to discuss various aspects of the innocence movement. With Chris, they discussed the type of junk science that contributes to wrongful convictions. With Daniel, the discussed the unnecessary legal processes and hurdles that stand in the way of getting people out of prison once they are there. Today, Hunter sat down with another lawyer, author, and leader in the innocence movement, Justin Brooks, to discuss the many other things that contribute to sending people wrongfully to prison. As the founder and director of the California Innocence Project, Justin has seen it all, and today, he is here to share his experiences with you so you can understand how you might go to prison even though you're innocent. Guests: Justin Brooks, Founder and Director of the California Innocence Project Resources: Buy Justin's Book https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520386839/you-might-go-to-prison-even-though-youre-innocent John Stoll's Case https://californiainnocenceproject.org/read-their-stories/john-stoll/ California Innocence Project https://californiainnocenceproject.org/ Contact Hunter Parnell: Publicdefenseless@gmail.com Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN


