Cults, Culture & Coercion with Dr. Steve Hassan

Christianity has been “hijacked” by Christian Nationalists, right-wing Conservatives and Dominionists, according to John Fugelsang, author of the 2025 book Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. “The entire history of the organized religion has been authoritarian control,” he said on our interview for the Cults, Culture & Coercion podcast. However, he also noted a deep appreciation for the teaching of Christ through the Bible and as used by non-violent activists like Martin Luther King Jr., “There’s this incredible history of liberation thought and a true history of Christian activism that’s almost always in resistance to Christian authoritarianism.”   “This book is a guide to everything the haters got wrong, and how, even if you’re an atheist, if you’re debating a Christian fundamentalist, Jesus agrees with you whether he exists or not, on every topic that divides us, it gives you the right-wing arguments and why they’re full of crap.” I replied that I’d interviewed many biblical scholars over the years and that I felt John really knew his stuff when it came to countering Christian nationalist fascists. I encouraged listeners to read or listen to his book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bill Eddy has authored more than 20 books on high‑conflict personalities and disputes. He wants Americans, and societies everywhere, to keep a simple mantra in mind: “fantasy crisis, fantasy villain, fantasy hero with fantasy solutions.” Whenever we encounter another wave of chaos from the Trump administration or any potentially abusive elected official, this phrase helps us recognize the manufactured narratives at play. It highlights the endless cycle of contrived trauma spun by those in power, while also providing a mental shield against the constant barrage of fear, anger, intimidation, and hidden agendas driven by money or power. Bill is a therapist, lawyer, and mediator, and he serves as co‑founder and Chief Innovation Officer of the High Conflict Institute. The institute’s mission is to make “high‑conflict behavior manageable—even when it feels impossible.” Their “About” page explains that they “equip professionals with proven skills to navigate high‑conflict behaviors in any setting—confidently, ethically, and effectively.” Bill has also created practical tools such as the CARS Method®, BIFF Response®, EAR Statements™, and the New Ways® series, which are used to train others to regain control in high‑conflict situations. The Importance of Focused and Refined Messaging in Politics Bill understands how powerful words, repeated phrases, and tightly crafted messages can be in countering high‑conflict personalities such as narcissists and sociopaths. He argues that the Democratic Party must coordinate and sharpen its messaging to confront Trump. “What I find is Democratic politicians have hundreds of ideas, hundreds of words, but they haven’t settled on anything repetitive,” he said, “and that’s where we get into what we both talk about is the emotional mind.” Bill notes that Trump excels at creating short, memorable slogans that stick in voters’ minds. “You target the emotional mind with these really short, you know, build the wall, send them back, those kinds of phrases, and the Democrats are saying similar stuff, but all different words,” Bill explained. I asked Bill to discuss some of the basic rules in dealing with narcissistic personalities in conflict situations. He noted that trying to give them insight into their behavior often doesn’t help. Neither does focusing on the past. “You’ll never agree on the past. You'll just argue forever about the past, because they may be totally committed to something that you can totally show as false, but they’re locked into that,” he said’ We discussed Trump’s obsession with the 2020 election results and his focus on rewriting past history so that he has a win, for instance. Lastly, Bill advised against name-calling or attempting to confront the narcissist on their emotions. Bill then focused on what we should be using, like the CARS Method® “C for connecting A, for analyzing, R, for responding as for setting limits” or using EAR Statements™ where E is for Empathy, A is for Analyzing and R is for Respect. He gave an example, “So if somebody’s angry and they're pointing a finger at you, and they're saying, ‘Bill, you’re an idiot, and you don’t know what you’re talking about,’ then I would say, ‘Wow, well, I can hear you’re really upset. Let’s look at what we can do here. Let’s analyze what’s going on, what we can do here.’” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adam James, a DPT and former NAR pastor turned content creator, blends insider knowledge of authoritarian Christianity with geriatric clinical insight. He explores how prophetic culture and worship tactics shape political fandom. He also analyzes behavioral and physical signs in political leadership, from posture and sundowning to possible stroke and medication effects.

Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett on Two Decades of Tracking the NAR’s Apostles and Prophets You walk into a church on Sunday morning. The worship band plays songs you’ve heard on Christian radio for years. The lyrics feel familiar, uplifting. What you don’t realize is that the words you’re singing were written to export a specific theology from a single church in Redding, California, one whose leadership claims direct prophetic authority from God. The church is Bethel. The movement behind it is the New Apostolic Reformation. And according to researchers Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett, who have spent over two decades studying this movement from inside Christian scholarship, it represents a radical departure from historic Christianity that is reshaping churches, politics, and millions of lives worldwide. I sat down with Holly and Doug on a recent episode of Cults, Culture & Coercion to discuss their latest book, Reckless Christianity: The Destructive New Teachings and Practices of Bill Johnson, Bethel Church, and the Global Movement of Apostles and Prophets. I’ve written about the New Apostolic Reformation in The Cult of Trump and interviewed researchers like André Gagné and Frederick Clarkson on these topics. Holly and Doug bring an essential angle: they are committed Christians sounding the alarm from within the faith, grounded in biblical scholarship and philosophy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pam Hemphill has been fighting MAGA propaganda since the day she realized it nearly killed her. A retired substance abuse counselor cancer survivor and one of the most visible former participants of the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol Pam served a 60-day federal prison sentence for her role that day. Her decision to reject Donald Trump’s presidential pardon and become a prominent activist exposing the cult dynamics of the MAGA movement makes her story truly remarkable. I was honored to have Pam join me again for a conversation about her ongoing activism. She is one of the few January 6th participants who not only accepted full responsibility for her actions but rejected Trump’s presidential pardon after his inauguration. Since her release she has received recognition from Mike Pence testified before Congress and become a courageous voice pushing back against the propaganda that fueled the attack on American democracy. More and more true believers are leaving MAGA and I wanted to highlight her activism. She continues to go to protests against ICE. It was an interesting interview because we got into techniques and strategies for communicating with those still in the thrall of the Cult of Trump. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rachel Bernstein, a licensed marriage-and-family therapist and cult specialist with 35+ years helping people leave abusive systems. She discusses rising national safety fears, narcissism and why manipulators seem unaffected. They explore digital media and AI’s role in manufactured influence, family estrangement versus reconciliation, and how journaling can aid recovery.

With speculations by experts that Donald Trump’s health appears to be deteriorating regularly noting bruises on his hands occasional stumbling or slurring in his speech and gait. The White House has denied these claims. As vice‑president JD Vance born and raised in Middletown Ohio stands to assume the presidency should Trump become unable to serve. Vance author of Hillbilly Elegy a memoir that chronicles his working‑class upbringing was once an outspoken critic of Trump but has recently become a “true believer” and advocate for the administration’s policies.  Nikki McCarty is JD Vance's cousin who grew up in the same family structure. She offered a unique view into the Vice President’s upbringing including an analysis of her family’s spiritual beliefs and practices utilizing my BITE Model of Authoritarian Control.  Nikki McCarty at times identifies herself as the “childless cat lady related to J.D. Vance” a reference to his direct public criticism of women who choose not to reproduce. She also identifies as a “neurodivergent queer disabled” person and has spent many years deconstructing her Christian Nationalist upbringing and its views on those topics. With a master’s degree from Liberty University she has worked as a social worker and therapist in the child welfare system for 8 years.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For many Americans, untangling today’s U.S. politics feels especially tough because the rise of religious‑right conservatism can seem sudden and ominous. Without a grounding in religious history and its influence on American political development over time, sweeping dominionist initiatives like Project 2025, fringe movements such as QAnon, and shadowy organizations like the Heritage Foundation may appear to come out of thin air. Fortunately, author and fundamentalist‑politics expert Keri L. Ladner, Ph.D., guides listeners back through the archives, tracing these phenomena to roots that reach back to the late 1800s. Ladner, who earned her doctorate in Divinity from the University of Edinburgh, is the author of End‑Time Politics: From the Moral Majority to QAnon (2024). The book maps the evolution of conservative Christianity, from its use of prophecy and rapture‑focused visions to the rise of figures like Jerry Falwell. She shows how those ideas have mutated over decades, ultimately feeding the ideologies that underpin today’s Trump‑era regime. Ladner first explained that the type of religious movements she specializes in is not the same as what was known as ‘Christianity’ before the late 1800s. “The movements that I’m looking into are very new. They’re very new offshoots of Christianity, specifically of Protestantism, American evangelicalism. They did not begin to develop in a form that we would recognize today until the late 1800s,” she explained. Her doctoral thesis essentially covered Jerry Falwell and the theological system known as dispensationalism, a historical movement she connects to John Nelson Darby, a 19th-century religious leader. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Research on psychedelics has shown that one of the most profound effects of the experience is how it places people in a more vulnerable, highly susceptible state. Along with creating time dilations, this powerful period is also capable of establishing new thought patterns surrounding trauma or addictions. For those who aim to support healing, this moment offers tremendous opportunities to empower individuals and help them reset temporarily or for good. Yet it’s that same openness that can be exploited by individuals attempting to manipulate, control, or indoctrinate.   This tension prompted my guest Erica Siegal, a licensed clinical social worker who facilitates psychedelic sessions, to ask, “How do we as facilitators of psychedelic experiences, not create undue influence…?” Erica enrolled in my clinicians’ course, a nd we subsequently crossed paths at a Harvard‑hosted psychedelic‑assisted psychotherapy program where I was a speaker. I am honored to have her as a guest on this episode of Cults, Culture & Coercion.   Erica is the founder of NEST Harm Reduction, “an organization focused on psychotherapy, psychedelic-adjacent care, drug education, and consultation for communities and organizations working in high-influence environments.” She has worked for over 15 years in the realm of psychedelic research, behavioral health, community gatherings, and spiritual care settings. She aims to help individuals and organizations reduce harm while preserving autonomy and dignity. Join us for this illuminating interview. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Frank R. George, psychologist and neuroscientist who studies narcissism and addiction, explains how addiction neurobiology maps onto narcissistic supply and withdrawal. He explores public performances as attention-driven reinforcement, malignant narcissism and group contagion, and how social media and intermittent rewards amplify narcissistic behaviors.