The Inequality Podcast

Among ancient civilizations, Rome inspires a special kind of fascination in the Western World. While the parallels between society now versus then are often overstated, we nevertheless can better understand ourselves by endeavoring to understand those who lived 2,000 years ago. Our guest’s work explores one facet of Roman life that reverberates in the way we live today: the surprisingly sophisticated financial affairs of average Romans. Kim Bowes is a professor of classical studies at the University of Pennsylvania. Her latest book is Surviving Rome: The Economic Lives of the Ninety Percent. The book draws on her own archeological work to chronicle Romans’ struggles with work, affordability, credit markets, and more. In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, she discusses the ways consumerism defined plebeian life, the challenges of collecting data about the ancient world, and what the skeletons of Roman farmers can tell us about the economic lives they lived.

Across three seasons of The Inequality Podcast, thinkers from a range of disciplines have discussed how their work helps us understand inequality. Given the breadth and depth of the research featured, it is difficult to believe that the subject was once an afterthought in economics. For our 50th episode, we present a scholar whose groundbreaking ideas have proven integral to the study of inequality for over a half century, anticipating many current arguments and representing the foundations for others.Joseph Stiglitz is a Nobel laureate and a professor of economics at Columbia University. He is the author of many books, the most recent of which is The Origins of Inequality, and Policies to Contain It. In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, he discusses his 60-year career studying the economics of inequality, including his influential studies of labor markets, his tenure working in the Clinton White House, and his thoughts on how AI might shape inequality.

As part of the current immigration crackdown, federal agents have turned to profiling, making stops on the basis of occupation or perceived ethnicity. In a system where confirming legal status can take days or weeks, agents are finding shortcuts in stereotypes. Aside from the dubious constitutionality of these stops, the assumptions behind these tactics raise questions: What makes someone look illegal? According to whom? And how do these perceptions emerge?René Flores is an associate professor of sociology at the University of Chicago. His work investigates how social boundaries form around immigrants and racial minorities and how these divisions contribute to inequality. In this conversation with host Geoff Wodtke, Flores discusses the complicated views Americans express about immigrants in surveys, how those views affect immigrants and non-immigrants alike, and how a perception of “social illegality” can extend beyond actual documentation status.

Immigration has once again taken center stage in the United States. While the federal government’s crackdown continues to unfold, the ideas driving immigration politics are far from new. Concerns about economic competition and cultural assimilation would have been familiar to Americans a century ago. Yet research from our guests demonstrates that many of the commonly held beliefs about immigrants are, in fact, largely myths.Economists Ran Abramitzky and Leah Boustan are the authors of Streets of Gold: America’s Untold Story of Immigrant Success. They are responsible for groundbreaking work in the study of economic history, finding inventive ways to harness both qualitative and quantitative methods. In this conversation with host Steven Durlauf, they discuss misconceptions about the economics of immigration, the persistence of upward mobility among the children of immigrants, and what those children’s names might tell us about cultural assimilation.This conversation was recorded in October.

There is an old cliche about imagining the end of capitalism. But explaining the rise of capitalism presents its own challenges. Human beings have congregated in marketplaces for millennia. When did simple barter and trade tip into what we call capitalism? And why did that particular system conquer the world? Answering such questions requires an interdisciplinary approach, and perhaps there is no better starting place than with experts in the two fields that have the most skin in this game: economists, who study capitalism’s inner workings, and historians, who chronicle how humanity got here.Sven Beckert is a professor of history at Harvard. His new book is Capitalism, and it chronicles how human history was transformed by this relatively recent advent. In this conversation with host (and economist) Steven Durlauf, Beckert discusses slavery’s role in the development of capitalism, why it took hold across the globe, and what, if anything, may spell its demise.

Economics as a discipline holds particular authority among the social sciences. The field owes its heft in part to the sophistication of its methods and models, both of which seem to grow ever more intricate. But what if in its quest for more complex techniques, mainstream economics is overlooking basic yet essential questions: For one, what is the economy?Jonathan Levy is a historian at Sciences Po. His latest book is The Real Economy, which critiques contemporary economics and draws on historical analysis to posit a new conception of “the economy.” He is also the author of Ages of American Capitalism, which chronicles the evolution of the U.S. economy. In this conversation, he discusses his work, what Keynes learned from Freud, and what economists can learn from historians with host Steven Durlauf.

With the university closed for its winter recess, we are sharing a favorite recording from the Stone Center’s archives. It is a live panel discussion about Equality: The History of an Elusive Idea, a book by Dartmouth history professor Darrin McMahon. The book is an intellectual feast, spanning centuries and bursting with insight about humanity’s quest to realize one of its highest, most fraught ideals: equality.The discussion includes the book’s author, as well as Jonathan Levy, today a historian at Sciences Po; Jenny Trinitapoli, a sociologist at UChicago; and Steven Durlauf, the Stone Center’s director and a co-host of this podcast.This event was recorded in May 2024.

Over the past century, women’s roles in society have been transformed. It is straightforward enough to list changes in norms — around marriage, sex, jobs, and more. What is less obvious is how these updated norms have reshaped economies. Relationships have shifted between men and women, between women and their workplaces, and between the state and the family. The challenge now is evaluating the success of this new order: What has truly changed, and where is there more work to be done?Lena Edlund is an Associate Professor of Economics at Columbia University. Her research interrogates the economics of gender and family, drawing on a range of other fields, including anthropology and evolutionary biology. In this conversation, she discusses her work on a variety of topics — from the long history of marriage, to contemporary gender gaps in wealth and voting patterns — with host Steven Durlauf.

Over the past several decades, American schools have improved significantly. The drastic gaps in achievement and funding that defined the early-to-mid 20th century have lessened, yielding an education system that, while not perfect, is far better than it was a generation or two ago. Even so, these gaps remain most pronounced for the students who start school with the fewest advantages, and research shows that efforts to close such gaps must begin early. How can schools better meet the needs of these students—and catch up with their peers throughout the developed world?Stephen Raudenbush is the Lewis-Sebring Distinguished Service Professor in the Department of Sociology, the College, and the Harris School of Public Policy. He is among the most influential sociologists living today, with contributions spanning methodological advances to landmark studies of neighborhood conditions, crime, and schools. In this conversation, he discusses his research on schools and key insights from his book, The Ambitious Elementary School, with host Geoff Wodtke.

From the Great Society to No Child Left Behind, policymakers from both parties have argued America’s schools are broken and need fixing. These failing schools, the thinking goes, exacerbate the inequality between advantaged groups and everyone else. But this approach comes with risks. For one, how might that focus on education overlook other, potentially more consequential sources of inequality? And are America’s schools really that bad?Doug Downey is a professor of sociology at The Ohio State University. In his book, How Schools Really Matter, he argues that schools do more to reduce inequality than previously assumed. More pernicious sources of inequality, he writes, are found elsewhere — and, unfortunately, may require policy changes that are more politically inconvenient than education reform. On this episode, he discusses his work with host Geoff Wodtke.