What Works

The Nitty Gritty * Why Natasha sold her digital offerings business arm to focus solely on 1:1 work — and how she gained two clients through sending out an email * How she found ways to bring more of herself into her business * Why Natasha uses affirmations to become the best business owner she can be and what her daily routine looks like * Where she noticed limitations in her personal life and how they impacted her business Natasha Vorompiova wants to help you amplify your impact through systems. That might look like organizing and optimizing your inbox or clarifying how your business operates. But Natasha isn’t just passionate about systems: she’s always looking for ways to optimize her own life and limitations to show up with more clarity in business. In this episode, she shares just how she does that through affirmations, paring down to just one-on-one clients, and much more. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Bringing your whole self into business “I’ve stopped separating who I am in life and who I am in business. I realize more and more, I’m just this one single person and my weaknesses, or things that don’t go well for me as a person in my day-to-day life, those same things show up in my business.” — Natasha Vorompiova Separating yourself from your business is nearly impossible as an entrepreneur. Any shortcomings in your personal life show up in business just as much as your strengths. That’s something Natasha recently learned and started to tend to more. “I started looking for patterns,” she says, “where things don’t work overall in business or in my personal life. I started noticing what doesn’t work and tried to concentrate just working on that element.” For example, Natasha wouldn’t voice her opinion with some individuals in her personal life. That bled into her business and she’d struggle with having an upfront conversation with a client. True to her nature, Natasha decided to focus in on that personal shortcoming to see if she could improve it. And she did, making it that much easier to have tough conversations and ask her clients deep questions. “When I started to allow myself to ask questions that were a bit more confronting and not just systems focused, we are able to discover so much more,” she adds. Who do you need to be to achieve your goals? “I started paying very, very close attention to who I need to be in order to achieve something. That’s how I can then make sure that the action I take leads to the goals that I want to achieve.” — Natasha Vorompiova Have you ever felt like your goals were unattainable because of your (real or perceived) personal limitations? Without paying close attention to what you’re aiming for, it’s easy to slide off the path. That diversion comes by way of procrastination and avoidance, says Natasha. “When I begin procrastinating or avoiding something, I know I need to confront that versus just pushing through it,” she says. At the end of the day, “the goal itself or the money is not what we’re after,” says Natasha. “We’re after what that goal represents or what it will allow us.” How about you? Is there somewhere in your life that bleeds into the way you operate your business that might negatively impact it? Is there a way that you can focus on it so that you’re able to realign with your path forward? Using affirmations to reach your goals “The process of it made such a big difference and impression on me the very first time because I was able to feel and connect to that statement on a totally different level.” — Natasha Vorompiova Have you ever used affirmations as a mindset tool to reach your goals? ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Christy’s sustainability values inform her minimalist and unique jewelry designs — and where she sources diamonds and gemstones from * What her weekly schedule looks like — from meeting with clients, working in the studio, sketching, and tending to longer-term projects * Who she hires to create a sustainable business model from accountants to lawyers to web designers to marketers * How Christy infuses her multicultural background into her work The jewelry trade isn’t always known for its sustainability — especially when it comes to sourcing diamonds. Today, that’s changing because jewelry designers like Christy Natsumi are making conscious choices to source diamonds and gemstones from vendors with honest supply chains. Through that thoughtful choice — and oh so many more — Christy creates change through her business: from where she sources raw materials from to the local artisans she hires in San Francisco to the unique and timeless designs she produces. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. The importance of having help and hiring experts “I’ve made my choices mostly on intuition and trust. It’s invaluable to have people who have your best interests in mind. It’s a foundational point that you need to be able to grow and thrive.” — Christy Natsumi While Christy doesn’t have any employees (yet!), she outsources specific parts of the jewelry manufacturing “to people who specialize in those particular techniques to accelerate the production and delivery time.” This includes local-to-her contract artisans in San Francisco. “It’s a very conscious choice to work with local makers and trade workers,” Christy adds. But it’s not just artisans she’s working with: she also works with an accountant that she meets with monthly as well as a lawyer that she consults from time to time on web copy. Her lawyer also drafted the contracts for her custom work. “Sometimes I’m taking in grandma’s diamonds so there needs to be protections in place for that,” Christy says. Beyond the legal work, Christy’s hired business coaches, videographers, and marketing and PR contractors. And lucky for her: her husband is a web designer and photographed all pieces since she opened her jewelry design studio. Making time for yourself keeps you engaged in your business “I bring attentiveness to my personal needs at the end of the week to make sure that I’m staying engaged and focused and to avoid burnout.” — Christy Natsumi Being your own boss can sometimes feel like you’re operating in a vacuum. That’s why Christy’s created specific workweek flows to keep her vision front and center. At the end of every week, she prints out photos from clients as well as kind words they send in an email. This ritual is part of Christy’s work week — and it’s something she intentionally does to stay inspired. “It honors the craft and it also honors the people you’re serving,” she says. “It’s really important to take a moment at least once a week to be reminded of that — and center back into why you’re doing something.” Is there a way that you can build in time to reflect on the value you’re creating for your customers and clients every week? Including custom pieces in a product-based business model “The custom process allowed me to be a little bit more environmentally mindful. I struggled in the beginning with the thought of making things for sake of producing a ton of things. I loved that the bridal pieces allowed me to not only merge value and client needs but it served my business in terms of h... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * Take a look at Srini Rao’s daily writing routine — from the apps to the systems — that enable him to write 1,000 words a day, every day * How creating for one — rather than many — invokes higher quality work * Why looking at the long-term view helps you avoid the comparison trap * Thoughts on mastering the creative process so that your work makes a lasting impact on your audience, customers, and clients Srini Rao writes at least 1,000 words a day and yet the majority of them you’ll never read. Why does he write so much, knowing that most of it won’t see the light of day through a blog post, an email, or a book chapter? Srini argues that within that daily practice comes some of your best work… and the essential opportunity to master your craft. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Using a daily writing system to do the work “The seeds of your most resonant work are actually created in private. When you’re creating this much in private and you don’t have the pressure to share everything, then you can be selective. I create a large volume of work much of which largely nobody sees.” — Srinivas Rao Here’s a reality: not everything you create will be great and not everything will be for public consumption. That’s just part of the creative process. But as you dedicate yourself to a daily practice, you hone your skill and thus are more selective about what you do share. Take Srini for example. He writes over 7,000 words a week and only a small portion of those words become a blog post or an email or a book chapter. But through that process, Srini uncovers some of his best ideas. Here’s a look at his daily writing routine: * Wake up at 6 am * Meditate for 10 minutes using the Calm app * Read for 45-60 minutes. Almost everything he writes that day is inspired by something he’s read… and he only reads out of real books, not Kindle books. * Turn on the same techno track on repeat and put on noise canceling headphones. * Write in a physical notebook by hand first, then turn on Mac, open MacJournal, and write 1,000-1,500 words, which usually takes 30-45 minutes. Srini employs this process using the Activation Advantage, a concept from the book, The Happiness Advantage. By reducing the number of decisions he needs to make, he dives immediately into the work. No energy is spent on the steps that need to happen before he can start writing — like choosing a pen or notebook (or even music!) because it’s already planned out. The importance of creating for one “When you satisfy your own desires and you maintain your own values and standards — as opposed to letting it be driven by the desire to live up to the expectations of other people — you’re much more likely to create something with emotional resonance, something that’s going to have a lasting impact on people.” — Srinivas Rao Right now, you can create and share something online in the blink of an eye. Because of it, truly good work is often eclipsed by the stuff that gets all the likes. Despite that, Srini believes in a daily creative process to master your craft. But it’s not just about the daily work: it’s also about creating something that matters to you and slowly becoming your personal best at it. In Srini’s latest book, An Audience of One, ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * What boundaries Charlie Gilkey and Angela Wheeler, founders of Productive Flourishing, set to coexist between business and life in a healthy way — plus, some of the rules they follow, like no screens in the bedroom (or in the hot tub!) * How their work styles differ — and how they make space for both * Why open communication is at the core of everything they do, including their relationship with each other and their team Ever thought of starting a business with your spouse? It takes strong boundaries, vision, and understanding to do it right: something that Charlie Gilkey and Angela Wheeler, founders of Productive Flourishing, have refined over the last 10+ years of working together. Of course, running a business and being in a relationship together results in unique challenges. How do you carve out time, outside of business, for your spouse when you work together all day? How do you determine who does what work — in the business and at home? How do you make sure you aren’t driving each other crazy? Charlie and Angela have run Productive Flourishing since 2007… and in this episode of What Works, they share what they put in place to do their best work — and show up as their best in the relationship, too. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Creating boundaries: when business and life co-exist “There isn’t a very clear line that this is life and this is business. They mix all day, every day. As things have shifted and changed in our life, things have shifted and changed in our business — and who does what and when.” — Angela Wheeler While it may seem that there’s no separation between life and business for Charlie and Angela, there definitely is. But it’s not without effort: part of that distinction comes from the boundaries and rules they’ve created for coexisting both as a partnership in business and in life. “We have different ways of working,” Charlie says, “and it’s a constant challenge for us.” One of their differences? Charlie’s an early riser: he’s usually halfway through his workday flow when Angela wakes up. One of their rules here? Charlie doesn’t talk to Angela until she talks to him. “Then, I don’t stay in that weird relational hover zone to where it’s like: are we saying hi in the morning and being lovey-dovey?” he asks. “Or are you doing your thing and I’m doing my thing?” Knowing what to expect from one another, as they work and live together, helps them stay focused on doing the work. Appreciating contrasting working styles and roles “Equality is not equal time and it’s not equal results which can be a really sticky part of a relationship.” — Charlie Gilkey As a society, we’re conditioned to believe that productivity means working hard from 9-5. But work doesn’t always fit into that 8-hour time slot. Many times, it expands past those hours. That’s been the case for Angela who’s consistently worked through a health journey that prevents her from working at the capacity she would like to. “What am I able to contribute,” she asks, “versus what I wish I could contribute? It’s totally a mindset thing on my part but it’s also an honoring and a recognition on both of our parts.” Beyond handling the financial aspect of business and working on projects for Productive Flourishing, Angela also takes care of things around the house: something that has tremendous value for both their business and life — but it’s not something that earns her a paycheck. As Charlie says, equality doesn’t mean equal time or effort. Understanding and appreciating this really required many open conversations between them to f... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * Why Alison Pidgeon left her Director role at two outpatient clinics to start Move Forward Counseling, a group mental health practice based in Pennsylvania * The reasoning behind Alison’s choice to stop taking new clients — plus, how she divides her time between counseling and running the business * What makes growing a group mental health practice work. In the conversation, Alison shares how she approaches team building and culture creating to keep her practitioners happy * How she structures pay for the other therapists in the group practice and what money goes where Sometimes, the way you’ve worked for years doesn’t work anymore. Life changes and responsibilities shift. That was the case for Alison Pidgeon. As the former director of two outpatient clinics, Alison started feeling the itch to go out on her own. She was burned out, and with two small children at home, Alison yearned for more flexibility. So she made some big changes. Alison left her position as director and started her private practice just days later. As her practice grew, Alison made the switch from a solo private practice to a group practice. Today, seven therapists work at Move Forward Counseling alongside Alison to serve the women of greater Lancaster County community. Listen to this episode of What Works to hear more about what it took for Alison to scale her business from one to 7, how she shows appreciation for her staff, and how she’s established a thriving business through word-of-mouth. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. How to influence your company culture “My staff feels valued. They feel respected. They have flexibility and autonomy over their schedule and what kind of clients they want to see. They’re paid well so they have time to take care of themselves and take care of their families.” — Alison Pidgeon Every company has a culture: some companies are intentional about it while others are not. Alison is someone who cares about her staff — and through her own experience in community mental health, she learned what not to do. “I saw what was happening in the agency and I did the exact opposite,” she says. And it’s paid off. Her staff are happy in their jobs, they aren’t overworked, and they have the ability to choose how they work. Influencing the culture started early and found its footing in Alison’s own ponderings: “How would I want to be treated as a provider?” she asks. “It was easy to take that and develop that culture in my own practice.” Why should you scale a high-touch business? “Private practice can be quite lonely. It’s nice to have other people around. Obviously you can make more money and you’re able to scale your business and it’s not tied directly to trading dollars for hours anymore which really appealed to me.” — Alison Pidgeon Sometimes there’s an identity crisis as you scale a business — but that shouldn’t turn you away from an opportunity that’s crossed your path. As Alison continued working solo in her private practice, she realized that she could grow the practice — and that doing so would round out the services that they provided in one place. “I came up with the umbrella that we’re a practice focused on women’s issues,” Alison says. “Underneath that, everybody has their own specialty. Not everyone is doing the same thing but I’ve been able to tie it together for the purpose of branding and marketing.” So far so good: there are currently seven providers (meet them here!) On the logistical side of things, every provider is set up as an independent contract... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * From the ideal diet to meditation to work style, learn how Michelle embraces her Ayurvedic dosha type * How Michelle’s rebel brain held her back in traditional work environments — and how she unleashed it so she could do her best work * Why Michelle embraces three-day sprints for deep diving into client work and balancing that with three-day sprints for working on CEO type tasks As a startup cofounder and high achiever, Michelle Warner eventually hit a wall. She completely wore out her adrenals from working countless hours every day. But, instead of pushing through it and carrying on, Michelle’s body forced her to stop. That’s when she decided to get curious: how could she live and work in a way that aligned with her natural strengths instead of constantly pushing against them? As she began to understand both how her mind and body work optimally, Michelle appreciated what once caused her so much frustration: time management. Today, Michelle designs her business to fit her life instead of modifying who she is for the work. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Discovering and working with the rebel brain within “I could not be told to sit in an office at a specific time. I would lose my mind. A piece of that is my entrepreneurial self. I’m just not meant to be an employee. But a piece of that was also trying to structure my day in that way and digging in on something that inherently didn’t work for me.” — Michelle Warner Have you ever struggled with working a traditional 9-5 schedule? You’re not alone! Michelle did, too. In fact, she struggled so much that she would surf the internet, send emails, or run errands throughout the entire day… anything so she didn’t have to feel like she had to work during those hours. … But then she’d spend the rest of her evening working from home.  As you can imagine, working this way wasn’t the healthiest: Michelle spent most of her waking hours working. Eventually, Michelle understood and starting working with the rebel within. In other words, she needed the freedom and flexibility to work on what made sense for her and her schedule rather than being dictated by a color-coded calendar. And while the typical Pomodoro timer didn’t work for Michelle, now she blocks off time and makes a list of projects to do within that time. It works marvelously. “I have to roll with the flow of the day,” she says, “and make sure that I’m at the point I want to be by the end of that day. I need to leave that flexibility for the rebel brain in me.” Michelle’s 3-Day Intensives “I can have the 3 day routines and know what needs to happen but I can’t necessarily know which project. I can’t look at my quarter and say: these 3 days for this project and these 3 days are the next project. I will freak out and not do it. If I have a list of 10 to choose from, then one, I’m much more calm about it and two, I make the right choice in term of prioritizing what needs to get done.” — Michelle Warner For some, slow and steady wins the race. And for others, like Michelle, it’s more of a sprint. Because she embraces how she naturally works best and she understands the rebel inside, Michelle sets aside three full days deep dive into client work, according to what needs to be done each day and according to her bigger business goals. “I allow myself to completely go down the rabbit hole of their business,” Michelle says. “I create everything they need and get completely engrossed in that world. I don’t worry about anything else.” Now, this is her go-to style for client work — and she’s proven that there isn’t just one single way that you can do th... ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Bridget’s struggle finding tops that fit her body type encouraged her to make her own — and how that pursuit turned into Têra Kaia’s first top, TOURA * The six words the Têra Kaia (formerly Aret Basewear) team uses to influence their branding, whether that’s photo styling or product developing * Their journey for finding a local athletic wear manufacturer that could make high-quality garments at an affordable price point — and what led Bridget to switch manufacturers * What their ambassador program looks like and why Instagram is their main marketing channel * How they ensure that customers find the right fit every time by using a sizing guide and a free exchange program — and how that value drives product design and informs customer service On today’s episode of What Works, Bridget Kilgallon, co-founder of Têra Kaia (formerly Aret Basewear), a collection of minimal basewear for the outdoorswoman, openly shares her journey bringing a physical product to market. From hand-sewing and testing the first top to partnering with a local manufacturer to marketing the brand, Bridget walks us through her thoughtful approach to product design, branding, and customer satisfaction. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Finding a local manufacturer “Finding a reliable manufacturer that can create our tops at the quality that we want at a price that works in the marketplace: that was the biggest hurdle we faced as a business. It still continues to be to this day.” — Bridget Kilgallon Once Bridget nailed down the handmade prototype and tested it for four months with willing participants, she needed to find a manufacturer. As you can imagine, finding one that meets your needs isn’t always easy but Bridget knew what she needed: a local manufacturer that specialized in athletic wear. And she did… but they only worked in standard format, meaning they only produced athletic wear with one-size-fits-all type of sizing like S, M, and L. “It took a lot of convincing for us to be like: no, we’re doing it differently,” she says. “Our sewing process is different and our fitting process is different.” So, the search continued. They ended up working with multiple different manufacturers in and around San Diego, California, but continuously faced issues with quality control and price point. As of today, they’re in the process of switching to a new manufacturer that can do everything in one place. Plus, this new partner has a design studio on site to help get their designs ready for production. Matching your values with your branding “We’re not just making athleisure: we’re making something that’s functional and technical. A lot of clothing companies for women right now are focused on making something that’s stylish and pretty. We’re not on board that. We think womenswear should be just as functional as menswear.” — Bridget Kilgallon From the get-go, Bridget defined Têra Kaia’s top as technical gear… and that one key decision influences everything from how they communicate online to how they create imagery for their online shop and on Instagram. “We really go out of our way to make sure that it’s communicated that this is a piece of technical gear,” Bridget says. Beyond the design, they identified keywords that they use throughout the branding process: contour, strong, dynamic, futuristic, minimal, ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * Why moving to Salt Lake City from San Diego inspired Nailah to start Color Outside — and how the free meetup transformed into the company it is today * How Nailah budgets, markets, and plans retreats — and why she hosts them in places that you wouldn’t normally take a vacation * How she uses private Facebook groups to connect with her people right away, plus her approach to sharing and posting content within it * What’s included in every retreat–including renting out an entire home, hiring a private chef and a photographer, offering unique activities, and more–plus, the pricing strategy Nailah uses to calculate costs–including profit As a new mom and a newcomer to Salt Lake City by way of San Diego, Nailah Blades Wylie sought community and adventure to reconnect with herself. That’s why she founded Color Outside, a meetup-turned-travel company for women of color who are ready to create unapologetic, joy-filled lives through outdoor adventure. In today’s conversation, Nailah shares how she budgets, markets, and plans the retreats and what’s so important about getting out into the wild. If you’ve ever considered running retreats or live events as the core offering of your business model, this is an episode not to miss. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. The evolution of Color Outside from a free meetup to an adventure company “I realized that hiking, exploring, kayaking and being out in the wild helped me to really reconnect with that part of myself that I was missing. My mind stopped racing. I was able to think through things more. I got a broader perspective on what was going on in my life… and I thought: other women need this.” — Nailah Blades Wylie As a new mom and a new resident of Salt Lake City, Utah, Nailah felt disconnected from herself — and from a community. She craved getting into nature and she needed to be around other women going through the same thing. Initially, Color Outside started as a free meetup group. She organized hikes for women of color to come together and explore this new place she called home. As Nailah continued to host meetups out in the wild, she realized just how much she enjoyed it. With a background in life and business coaching, she easily connected with other women on a deep level. In this episode, Nailah talks about a hike that confirmed this for her. As she and another woman powered through the woods, the woman shared that she was in a job she hated — and that she wanted to be a writer instead. For the remainder of their time together, they mapped out a plan for her to start exploring this new life path as a writer… and by the end of the day, the woman felt so much better because she had a plan to research and implement. That’s when Nailah knew that Color Outside could be so much more than a meetup group. It could be an opportunity for life and business transformation — and a place where women of color could feel — and experience — unapologetic joy, one of Nailah’s biggest values for Color Outside. Prioritizing and infusing unapologetic joy into everything “Expressing our joy and being unapologetic about it is revolutionary, especially for women of color. It’s something that’s not a given for us. We have to fight against the stereotype of the angry Black woman or the spicy Latina. Just showing up and taking up that space is huge: it ripples throughout our community and the entire world.” — Nailah Blades Wylie Unapologetic joy: even thinking about the idea feels liberating. ★ Support this podcast ★

The Nitty Gritty * How Beryl runs the Momtography® training program, how she landed on the price point, and how she promotes her teachers once they’ve successfully completed the initial training program * Why Beryl’s first step to licensing her work included hiring Autumn Witt Boyd, an intellectual property lawyer, to legally prep Momtography® for distribution * How she finds qualified people to work with, how many teachers she’s currently working with, and her vision for the future of Momtography® Today’s guest, Beryl Young, returns to the podcast — and this time, she’s sharing everything behind licensing her signature work, Momtography®. So far, Beryl’s licensed twelve teachers, with plans to expand to all 50 states in the U.S. in the future. In this conversation, Beryl talks about how she started Momtography®, how she prepared her content for licensing (including hiring a lawyer!), and what it felt like to transition from the creator to the leader. If you’ve ever considered licensing your work — or want to hear more of the nitty gritty details on how it can work — this episode is for you. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. Prepping to license your work “The first step was hiring a lawyer because I hadn’t trademarked the name. I knew that if I was going to percolate this on a national level, that was the first bow I needed to tie up. I also wanted to make sure that all my legal ducks were in a row. I wanted to speak to someone who worked with other licensing programs who could give me guidance.” — Beryl Young Getting your work ready to license is no small feat. Besides creating the content and finding people to train, you also need to ensure your work is legally ready for distributing. How do you protect the integrity of your work? How do you ensure that people don’t steal your idea? Those were some of the questions Beryl had — and why she hired Intellectual property lawyer Autumn Witt Boyd to help her do just that. Together, they parsed out the contracts and trademarks associated with the program as well as non-compete clauses. If you choose to license your signature work, take Beryl’s lead and contact a lawyer to set strong foundations to protect you and your creations. Giving up control to move from creator to leader “I asked myself: can I trust other people with this? I started building my team out over the last 2-3 years and this felt totally different. If somebody teaches this class in a way that’s different than me or in a way that I don’t agree with, am I going to be able to take that manager/CEO role and apply it? Can I let go of control and allow this to happen and allow Momtography® to spread?” — Beryl Young As an infinitely creative individual and the one-woman show behind Momtography® for so long, it was difficult for Beryl to shift identities from creator to leader. But to allow Momtography® to expand, she needed to give up that control… and trust. Giving up that creative control doesn’t mean you give up structure or rules. Instead, Beryl’s implemented a training and coaching program to show her teachers what’s expected. Part of that includes guidelines on what teachers can charge for the classes they teach. While licensing your work requires shifting up to a leadership role, it doesn’t mean that you are divorced from the creative aspect of it. Rather, it means that you’re in a position to set your teachers... ★ Support this podcast ★

 The Nitty Gritty  * What inspired Chris to start building CozyCal, a simple and easy-to-use online scheduling tool for small business owners and solopreneurs * Why Kat Lu decided to leave her healthcare consulting career to work on product development and customer support at CozyCal full-time * How Kat and Chris manage their roles in the company as a couple (and how their backgrounds influence how they operate) * What channels they use to grow CozyCal including the WordPress Plugin Directory, webinars, podcasts, and affiliate programs * Why they use Intercom over email for real-time feedback and communication with their users — and how that informs their development process Kat Lu and Chris Tan never set out to build a SaaS company… but when a friend needed an easy way to schedule appointments online for her naturopathic practice, Chris decided to develop a minimalist calendar to automate the process for her. That service is now CozyCal, a simple-to-use online scheduler, that helps users generate leads and grow faster. After seven months of working on the product part-time, they decided to go all in. Kat left her job in healthcare consulting to become CozyCal’s product and customer support manager while Chris continued to build out requested features as the head (and only!) developer. In this episode, Kat and Chris shed light on what their product development process looks like, what it’s like to work together as a couple, and all the interesting ways they market and promote CozyCal. We release new episodes of What Works every week. Subscribe on iTunes so you never miss an episode. How they use Intercom for onboarding and real-time customer support “Intercom made a huge difference for us. Prior to that, we used Zendesk and it’s a more passive channel of communication between us and the customers. We have to wait for them to send an email to us and then we send an email back. There is no real time communication. With Intercom, we’re able to talk to users in real time and gather feedback.” — Kat Lu Collecting user feedback is essential for SaaS companies like CozyCal. Customers who use the product every day know the product well, then share their ideas to optimize and improve it. That’s why Kat and Chris recently switched from the email helpdesk tool, Zendesk, over to Intercom. Intercom makes it dead simple to communicate with customers in real time and collect feedback. In fact, the pair joke that they answer customer requests faster than they respond to each other’s text messages. Another feature they love, Kat says, is Intercom’s onboarding campaign feature. So far, they’ve used it to auto-send messages throughout a new user trial period. “It really makes a huge difference to us,” she adds. Here’s an example of how a 10-day onboarding campaign works: * Day 1: Welcome message in app and email * Day 2: Examples of how other people use CozyCal * Day 5: Reminder of additional features, like payment and Zapier integrations * Day 9: Prompt user to upgrade to the Pro Plan  As you can see, they strategically educate users over a period of time in accordance with the trial — and they do it all from Intercom. Using the WordPress plugin directory to market and grow CozyCal’s user base “One of the terms of being in the WordPress plugin directory is that, if you’re selling a SaaS, you need a freemium plan. That’s one thing that’s tricky. The people who come in through WordPress may not be the easiest to convert — but just having that... ★ Support this podcast ★