In Reality

Welcome to In Reality—the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schurenberg, long-time journalist and media executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media.Here is the question of our information-saturated age:  Why, when they have access to more information than ever in history, do so many people believe things that are demonstrably untrue? This is not just the gullible, not just “those people”—but also all of us who pride ourselves on thinking clearly. Today’s guest has spent his career trying to answer that question. David Robert Grimes earned his PhD as a physicist, but switched over to public health and is now an assistant professor at Trinity College School of Medicine in Dublin Ireland. But it’s his parallel career—as a science journalist and author—that brings him to In Reality.His book Good Thinking—published in the UK as The Irrational Ape—is one of the most readable guides at explaining why human reasoning fails us. In 2014 he won the John Maddox Prize for standing up for science in the face of adversity. In Grimes’ case, that included death threats and campaigns to have him fired from his university post. He kept writing anyway.In Grimes’ view the barrier is the cognitive architecture we all share—the confirmation biases, the motivated reasoning, the deep human need to protect our identity even at the cost of the truth. In this conversation we’ll dig into why people believe what they believe, what even the most respected journalism institutions get wrong, what AI means for the information ecosystem—and what we can do about it.Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

It’s pretty much a cliché to say that Americans live in two separate political realities. We shout at each other from our separate bunkers, unable to agree even on basic facts. One coping strategy—and maybe the default, given human nature—is to hunker down with our own tribe and demonize the other. But there are more constructive ways, and today’s guest makes a living examining those alternatives. He’s Jonathan Stray, senior scientist at University of California Berkeley’s Center for Human-Compatible AI and the creator of the excellent newsletter Better Conflict Bulletin. Jonathan studies the growing field of peace-building—that is, helping people from different factions work together. He’s involved in research about AI primed to unite people rather than divide them. Some things we learn from this conversation: About a journalistic standard called multi-partiality, a more attainable goal than impartiality. About how you might construct an algorithm that prioritizes reliable news over popular news. And why, despite the state of discord right now, there are reasons to be optimistic. Faithful listeners might recognize that we recorded this podcast about a year ago, but its relevance has only increased. We're re-posting this the day after the most divisive state of the union address Eric has ever heard. This administration will not last forever, and we will as a country need to find our way back to working together. And we can really use some of Jonathan’s optimism about our ability to do that.Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

Welcome to In Reality, the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schurenberg, founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media. On In Reality, we spend most of our time on the media environment in the US. But information integrity is also under assault in Europe, where Russian propaganda efforts are, if anything, more pervasive than here. For example, late last year, Russia hit Poland with a wave of AI generated TikTok videos featuring attractive, but deep faked young women arguing that Poland should exit the EU...At last year's World Economic Forum in Davos, delegates named misinformation the leading threat to political cohesion and social trust. So hence today's guest, John O'Brennan, professor of European politics at Ireland's Maynooth University.John and Eric cover the information environment on his side of the Atlantic. They talk about the perverse incentives that have aligned big tech with the pollution of the information environment. We'll pivot to the role of media illiteracy and illiteracy in general in the erosion of social trust.As we recorded this, the 2026 Davos Conference was unfolding against the inconceivable backdrop of the President of the United States, demanding his allies hand over Greenland. So they cover that too...Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

Welcome to In Reality—the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schurenberg, long-time journalist and media executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media.Most of the guests on In Reality come out of the information world: journalists, researchers, a few politicians, but mostly people trying to clean up our polluted news feed and dial down the heat in our polarized politics. Today’s guest is, if you will, upstream of that world.Carole House is a public servant who has spent her career trying to bring order to a world in which sophisticated technologies can be (and inevitably are) exploited by bad actors. Think cyberfraud, ransomware, digital money laundering, cryptocurrency and, of course, disinformation. She’ll go into detail about her remarkable career, but suffice it to say that if it involves digital technology and crime, Carole has fought it.It’s a very broad portfolio but Carole argues digital fraud is all the same at heart: online scams try to steal money; online disinformation aims to steal political power. What she calls the “fraud economy” is a trillion-dollar shadow GDP that erodes trust institution by institution and person by person. And AI is rapidly making it much worse. So today we connect the dots within the fraud economy—where disinformation, social media, cryptocurrency and cybercrime all work together. And we do so with one of the highly necessary people fighting back...Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

Welcome to In Reality the podcast about truth disinformation and the media with Eric Schurenberg, long time journalist and media executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media. Up to this point, Eric's assumption about artificial intelligence—and he's not alone in this—has been that it will only make the information environment worse. More chaotic, more polluted by mass produced slop that only reinforces our partisan belief bubbles.  Add to that the scary possibility is that AI would become a superhuman  tool of political manipulation, able to strike up one-on-one conversations with voters about whom the AI knows everything and win them over with subtle manipulation.  It so happens that three scientific papers have come out just last week that challenge this alarming scenario. All concluded that AI models in conversation are indeed much more persuasive than conventional methods used to sway voters—like, say, political ads. But they are most effective not because they are especially manipulative, but because they are better at marshalling facts to support their case.Today’s guest is Kobi Hackenburg, an Oxford University PhD candidate who authored one of the papers and who has long studied the question of AI’s power to change minds. Among other things, Kobi and Eric will dig deeper into why factuality works so well in these experiments and other, more insidious techniques, like microtargeting, don’t. We’ll speculate about how AI might be used by political campaigns in the future,   And whether we should be cheered ar that, at least in this experiment, people seemed surprisingly open to changing their minds when confronted with contrary facts.Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

Welcome to In Reality, the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schurenberg, long-time business journalist and executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media. What has it meant to be a professional news journalist during the past 10 years? In an era of gleeful hostility to the press, how do reporters cope? How do they avoid becoming the story? How do they handle unprecedented fear for their own safety, and the challenges of covering an administration that sometimes demands followers refuse to believe their own eyes?Our guest today is Steve Peoples, senior political writer for the Associated Press and a 14-year veteran of presidential campaigns. Few reporters have a clearer view of how the relationship between presidents and the press has transformed in these hyper-partisan years. We recorded this live at a session of my virtual University of Chicago course, Presidents vs. the Press. Our focus in this class was on the coverage of President Biden, which we are still processing 10 months after he left office, in particular how the press missed the signs of his cognitive decline. Steve is candid about the cause of that failure and about the job ahead for journalists in the age of Biden’s successor, Donald Trump: We cover the dangers of groupthink in the newsroom, the pressure journalists face to skew coverage to maintain access, and why fact-checking in real time is now a core responsibility of the press.We hope you enjoy the episode...Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

Welcome to In Reality, the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with Eric Schurenberg, longtime journalist and media executive, now the founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media. Two weeks ago, as we recorded this episode, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting closed its doors. As you no doubt know, Congress this summer voted to claw back money it had already approved to support the Corporation’s work. That work included, among other things, the distribution of federal funding to local public broadcasters, so the voiding of Congress’ promise leaves local stations to fend for themselves. Today’s guest stands at the center of this wrenching transition for public media. She’s Jennifer Ferro, the president of KCRW—Los Angeles’s flagship NPR affiliate—and the chair of National Public Radio’s board of directors. Jennifer and Eric talk about how KCRW is reinventing itself for a generation that doesn’t own a radio, about the threats to public journalism that go beyond funding—from TikTok to political polarization—and why she believes her real competition isn’t commercial news but the erosion of trust in professional journalism itself. We also discuss the accusations of political bias at NPR, the lawsuit between NPR and CPB, and what’s at stake when Americans live in separate, sealed information bubbles...Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com

Courtney Radsch, Director of the Center for Journalism and Liberty, brings her expertise in press freedom and digital rights to discuss the critical role of journalism in the information ecosystem. She argues that journalism serves as a keystone species, essential for transparency and community trust. The conversation delves into the health of the U.S. information system, highlighting threats from AI and surveillance capitalism. Courtney also advocates for reforms including breaking up monopolies and regulatory frameworks to rebuild trust and support independent journalism.

In this engaging discussion, Brian Waniewski, Executive Director of Harmony Labs, shares insights into how narratives shape our understanding of the world. He explains the importance of stories in creating community identities and emphasizes the need for nonprofits to address polarization through data. Brian reveals fascinating findings on audience engagement with ultra-nationalist narratives on platforms like YouTube and suggests strategies for interrupting harmful narratives. He also discusses the role of media in fostering democratic values and advocates for public education to combat misinformation.

Welcome to In Reality, the podcast about truth, disinformation, and the media with host, Eric Schurenberg, longtime journalist and media executive, now founder of the Alliance for Trust in Media.One of the hard things to face about the news ecosystem in this country at this time is that no one is coming to rescue us. There will be no Clean Air Act to take the fabrications and misconceptions and provocations out of our tragically polluted newsfeeds. If you want to consume news in a healthy way, not be misled, not trap yourself in a bubble, better understand the world at this moment, you have to take the initiative. On your own. It’s up to you. This is not, god forbid, an exhortation to “do your own research’ on social media. That will drive you deep down some rabbit holes. But it’s an exhortation to think clearly, effectively, scientifically about what you read, or watch, or listen to. Michael Starbird is a University Distinguished Teaching Professor of Mathematics at the University of Texas at Austin, who realized that the best way to teach students but how to think. His book The Five Elements of Effective Thinking, is about developing the habits of mind that make you much harder to mislead. And believe us, there are lots of people who want, for all kinds of reasons, to mislead you. Michael and Eric talk about how to judge scientific claims when you’re not a scientist, as most of us aren’t; how to separate evidence from noise, and why being open to change is not only a personal virtue but a civic necessity.If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by the flood of claims, counterclaims, and outrage in your news feed, this episode will help you see a way forward.Website - free episode transcriptswww.in-reality.fmAlliance for Trust in Mediaalliancefortrust.comProduced by Tom Platts at Sound Sapiensoundsapien.com